You NEED CHOLESTEROL For Hormonal Health! | Dr. Elizabeth Bright

if you look at steroid hormone Cascade it's they're all made out of cholesterol it starts over here on the left with cholesterol then pregnanolone then progesterone and estrogen is all the way to the right of the Cascade under testosterone you can't make any of these hormones if you're not eating any cholesterol which is what most do they avoid cholesterol because they want to be ra thin and also because they're told not to eat any fat because they'll their heart will explode welcome to the plant-free MD podcast with Dr Anthony chaffy where we discuss diet and nutrition and how this affects health and chronic disease and show you how you can use this to optimize your health and happiness both mentally and physically hello everyone thank you for joining another episode of the plant-free MD I your host Dr Anthony chaffy and today I have a very special guest Dr Elizabeth Bryce who has been kind enough to join me uh for today today's episode um Dr PR thank you so much for coming on thank you Anthony nice to nice to be here yeah so um I'm sure uh most people know who you are but for those who don't can you give us a little um intro about yourself and who you are and what you do yes I'm an osteopath andropathy good fat is good for women menopause and recently published good fat is good for girls puberty and Adolescence nice very good so in your practice currently so you deal with hormones are you treating patients at the moment or are yes online online only I mean I I uh I also use the carnivore diet high fat carnivore diet as a treatment modality so yeah that's my my first book came out in 2016 quite some time ago but I was talking about IAT carnivore and women's hormones and how the high fat carnivore diet uh basically the menopausal symptoms are not don't have anything to do with menopause so that's what I'm talking about yeah very good well you were definitely ahead of the curve then uh writing a book back in 2016 about that how was that book received at the time is it being uh picked up more and more now or yes yes yes absolutely since um I guess the last three to four years so yeah I was kind of a quiet voice in the world Ness uh back in 2016 but I I wrote it right around I went into menopause so and I had gone carnivore then so I 61 now that was when I was 52 so nine years ago and um I live in Italy and at the time my practice was in Italy uh I had to close my large studio with covid we were we weren't able to see people in person for a while treating osteopathic is very very difficult if you can't yeah feel tissue so um I sort of mov my treatment uh onto online consultations nice and then um so how did you come to a cornivore diet because again that would have been much uh further ahead than than a lot of people came across it it all started uh well I had I remembered uh I remember there were a few periods in my 30s a couple of times when I was uh doing a lot of martial arts training and I uh did much better on beef at the time and I remember talking to my SE who at the time who at at the time in in actually in uh in the US concerned that I was only doing could only really digest beef and um so I remembered that when I went keto I guess at 50 and then uh and then I started just removing vegetables it was very it was a pain in the butt to cook them green charred and all those things and we just kept going more and more and more meat so that sort of happen slowly and then I've always been I've sort of specialized in thyroid function so at the time and that at that year in 2016 I saw el el Amro hearn's discussion about T3 and low you know low carb and that sort of sent me down that path as well okay and so you still do that today oh yeah yeah yeah yeah and what have you noed my whole family oh good yeah yeah my husband my my three children for the most part uh my youngest just had a baby a year ago so yeah nice yeah I'm I'm still getting there with my family most of them most of them come around but uh it's a working progress and um well that's great so when you're dealing with people's um hormones you said that that menopause first of all was not necessarily a product of of you know estrogen things like that what are what are some of the symptoms that we get from menopause that um can a can be helped with a cornivore diet and B that aren't really related to the hormones we think they are oh okay well you know I don't know if you I mean maybe you don't know about this but in the 80s and 90s uh there was Suzanne Summers who was pushing the bioidentical hormones and she she took the seven drawers and had seven dwarves and had the Itchy ugly or itchy sweaty sort of the the symptoms associated with menopause uh that would be improved itchy sweaty like that which uh you know from the seven dwares and um and that is when I went when I hit menopause I I Googled it and I oh this is all the thing these are the only things you see online and I was quite upset by that because I didn't associate myself I'm I'm a I'm a uh Jaa master I went back and forth to Hong Kong I trained and so it's not something that I Associated my these symptoms were not what I was experiencing and it just really made me angry so I just I did a lot of research into it and it basically comes down to the fact that um most 85 to 95% of both male and female steroid hormones are synthesized in the adrenals so when you Lo when your ovarian production of estrogen for example diminishes it doesn't go away because they are still being synthesized in the adrenals so we when but medicine did not know that until 1988 when they saw um Men who' been castrated their their testosterone levels went down initially and then they came back up because the adrenals were continuously synthesizing testosterone and this you know and then so so what about the cornivore diet helps with the the adrenal uh function well you're you're reducing uh you're taking away stimulants because you're not eating carbohydrates there's more fat so the high fat is an important part of it you make uh if you look at the steroid hormone Cascade it's they're all made out of cholesterol so if women are concerned I mean it starts over here on the left with cholesterol then pregnenolone then progesterone and uh estrogen is all the way to the right of the Cascade under testosterone so you can't you can't make any of these hormones if you're not eating any cholesterol which is what most women do they avoid cholesterol because they want to be ra thin and also because they're told not to eat any fat because they'll their heart will explode so I mean I know my mother and my grandparents my family is from the south and they all start stopped eating they started using Crisco in the 50s and then the anel keys right around the time 1958 the anel keys 7 country study came out right around that time was when I know my grandparents stopped eating animal fat yeah yeah that was pretty sad I just saw a an article um that was posted about krisco and how Proctor and Gamble bought Chrisco I think from the Germans and it was like a a machine lubricant for like tank wheels and and they paid off the American Heart Association $20 million in today's valuation to lie and say that it was very heart healthy and better for the heart than for than the animal fats were which is just insane I don't understand how how these people can get away with this obviously they can say well it's not the same people that were here or whatever but you know there was clearly records in their own documentation that they that theyve done this that one of their predecessors had done this and so wouldn't they have an obligation to then say like oh hey hold on a second this was this was wrong I mean you're complicit at that point you know if you're if you're aiding and abetting a murderer you know you're you're culpable in a certain sense and they're aiding and abetting this fraud that has caused people to die you know and so that's that to me is just so strange I don't know well it's sort of part of the whole uh it hasn't just it's not only now it this started in in the Victorian era basically which is what I talk about in my second book puber in and Adolescence uh fat has been fat and and and meat have been demonized since that time because of the seventh day Adventists and I know you've talked about that before because of uh cultural views of women fat eating fat and eating meat made you carnal so you wouldn't want women eating it because you don't want them to be carnal right they just have to stand in the background and cook and make babies so how women have been going through this a lot longer than you know since 1958 so it all I'm sure that they get away with it because that is what has been on the agenda for quite some time culturally speaking Yeah I even even looking at uh Trends in America the the meat consumption was was quite high in the early 1800s and it's sort of just slowly creeping down creeping down and then bottoms out in the 1920s and 30s when heart disease became the number one killer in America when we're eating the least amount of meat in 200 years and then it starts sort of coming up a bit um and now it's you know gone up uh past slightly past where it was in the early 1800s but there was that Decline and I remember seeing articles from doctors and certainly other people of religious um orientation saying that you need to go on a vegetarian diet Bland plant-based diet in order to suppress your sexual urges and your lust and lust is a sin and lust is evil so we need to do that and I was figured that that I was wondered if that sort of decline was because of the popularity of that absolutely absolutely because those movements were not only I we're talking about the Western World right so we're talking about the U us the UK uh Germany those movements um there was the uh the knipe who invented who started all this herbal stuff in Germany um all around the same time the the natural hygiene movement considering they because at the time doctors and this is also how osteopathy was born doctors were using mercury and Laing them and so they were using these horrible poisons to treat to suppress symptoms right and then there was a whole chain of of uh practitioners who wanted to go a different route right so osteopathy was born because at still in Missouri started treating people by adjusting them as because he had been a physici and he was horrified at the use of mercury and Lum and those kinds of things so there were other and at that same time unfortunately the hygiene movement which started in Germany UK us these people it was all about plants so people sort of went into um into cultural folkloric uh treatments to use plants because all medicine started out as plants anyway right so I think it's part of that that you can definitely see the meat going down the religious movements at the same time of course abolitionism was also at that time and a lot of unionizing and things like that so there were at people were sort of trying to think think outside the box and change the status quo somewhat there were some some good things that came from that mindset but a lot of them as far as health and diet pretty bad yeah yeah definitely and then persisting to today you as you said I mean this started a long time ago but like the Seventh Day Adventist you they brought about movements that are still in in in progress you know they they're still doing these things they just like said this in the 1800s and they've gone away they're they're still saying this you know they've founded the the processed food industry with Kelloggs and here in Australia sanitarium Foods is the number one serial company in Australia and they make wheat picks and they don't pay any taxes because they're they're owned by the church and then even more recently you know Dr the McGovern report was written by a Seventh Day Adventist Dr pritkin Who is I mean I knew who Dr pran was when I was a child um and he was a professor at at the Seventh Day Adventist um Medical School l m Linda I don't know if he was himself yeah many many many schools yeah and um and then more recently they came up with the the the profession of or the specialty of Lifestyle medicine which sounds good on paper it's using diet and lifestyle to fix people's underlying root conditions and then using medicine as a you allopathic sort of medications in Pharmacology as as an adjunct sounds great to me you know I I I practice that way but it's sort of a trojan horse to get plant-based in the in the in the discussion because that's the that's the diet that they push so that was actually founded by Lolinda and the Seventh Day Adventist to to sort of push this out so they're still active doing this which is pretty surprising yeah well the entire dietary I mean dietitian Association of the US is for a sudden ad this the Willets Harvard Chan all those schools that are keep putting these papers out about how me is bad for you and carbs and grain are great for you it's all they all of these people have been were seventh day adist so yeah hey guys just want to take a second to thank our sponsor at carnivore bar I don't promote many products because honestly all you need to be healthy is to just eat meat for those times that you're out hiking road tripping or stuck at work and you want nutritious snack that is just meat fat and salt if you want it the carnival bar is a great op option so I like this product not because it's just your meat but also because I want the carnivore Market to thrive as well and the more we support meat only products the more meat only products there will be available in the mainstream so if this sounds like something you'd like to get behind check it out using my discount code Anthony to get 10% off which also applies to subscriptions giving you 25% off total all right thanks guys that's that's really what it comes from but they're also selling Coca-Cola and and if you look at the whole oat milk and nut Butters and all those things the Kellogg was doing that back in the 1800s he first started he's the first one who did the almond butter again trying to change butter to animal fat butter into get it making it from uh from nuts which we know you and I know are horrifically full of antinutrients absolutely so I knew that Walter Willet was strongly associated with Seventh Day Adventist I know that he's worked with them closely do you do you know if he is actually a member of the church or just just Associated I don't think so but I think that I mean I don't know exactly but I've just seen his name come up on so many of the seven this this whole a lot of the research is being done on this connection I've seen his name oh absolutely yeah I've seen the same and it you just sort of Wonder same with pritkin you know who said that that the work of LG white you know their prophetes yeah that he that he was you know an Avid Reader of her books and was very impressed by her but I didn't know if he was actually a member himself but either way it's the same ends up being the same sort of thing they work they work together um and um yeah it is it is a bit a bit concerning especially because you know you can have a a religious ideology and that's everyone's right in business but then you're trying to for that on other people but then you're not telling them what what the real goal is here saying we want you to go plant-based because we don't we want less sexual urges in the world it's like it's really not your business and then it's all tied up in this sort of incestual relationship with now this multi-trillion dollar your industry of processed food so you know are they really being you know we're just trying to save the world and save Humanity or is it now they're just you know they're they're sort of promoting their own agenda financially it's it's very you know you can't really have one without the other they're all tied up in each other now yes just I mean I would say that you know any um missionaries are Al they're trying also they have an agenda too right so I don't think you can divorce it from that concept uh and I think that following the money that expression following the money is a very good way to look at it if there's money to be made you have to figure out why and how and but definitely the the precepts that they the original precepts that they are are uh prizing shall we say have to be looked at and understood before accepting what they say is the truth yeah definitely and then so your training is a natural path as well as I I understand these are sort of similar similar influences on the nutrition and dietetics associations in America and the naturopathy is that is that correct were you taught a lot all plantbased now very unfortunate it's very plant-based now osteop and naturopathy both remove obstacles to Healing so basically we leave the body alone and we take away things that's why an Elimination Diet is perfect because you take away the thing that could be causing inflammation uh could be simulants and things like that so instead of taking something which is very difficult for some people to accept we are raised in our culture let's take something and make us feel better I mean people were taking Mercury and atinum as medicinal preparations right so often when you're removing something is the way to go to see what's left and how you can heal by removing things that are not necessarily what you as a human being involved to eat so I kind of turned that on its head because I was taught that in school a lot of plant a lot of supplements lots of you know osteopathy is more an adjustment and I got into naturopathy because as an osteopath women of a certain age were coming to me with the same symptoms and I would adjust them and I would be very frustrated because they'd be back in two weeks so somebody else might say great come on I'll adjust you again pay me but I thought well I was my my training and my teaching in the years and years I went to school I was supposed to fix something so why were they why did they not stay fixed so I decided to go back to school and figure and learn why that would be so it was mainly inflammation tissue inflammation ligamentous laxity that would you know their the vertebrae would not stay where I put it because ligament disys laxity all those things brought me to the realization that um diet is really important yeah well I like that I like that mindset to the just getting the obstacles out of the way and letting the body heal which is a perfect mindset and and it it is really nice to see people get the the you know that sort of core message that you that's what you took out of that it's like well that's what we're supposed to do and you're telling me to give them a bunch of plants and then you say well actually that's the obstacle I need to remove that obstacle now so that core principle um is yeah that's really good I have um I I sort of had similar experiences in medical school where where a professor of mine said um it was interesting he said that everything that we learned right now he we had this whole lecture about all these different sorts of prology and Physiology all these sorts of things and he just said listen you need to learn this stuff now you have to pass your test but understand this by the time you graduate Medical School everything you learn here will be out of date it will be obsolete so you need to stay on top of things you need to and you need to pay attention to what's going to be obsolete what's what you learned here uh what what did you learn here that was that was useful and can keep going what what were the things that that uh were are obsolete you know what and that is is on us you know we have to sort of experiment and study and keep up with different research and not just be rigid in our thought and that stuck with me and that's why you know I came to the opinions that I have now because I kept that thinking that like okay this isn't static this isn't just this is never going to change I need to understand that given new information I should change my mind and opinion so that's great I'm always interested to seeing how everyone from different aspects and backgrounds come to a cornivore diet because there's so many times where it's like you know there's just so many different angles but it all comes back to the same thing it's just this this helps a body heal and we are a lot healthier for it and so that's that's really nice to see well I I mean having studied what I studied and as you said I keep up to date right we have to I mean medicine is Medicine Science is science so you can't just it can't be static it can't be engraved in stone because if we were thinking about being you know what was engraved in stone we would we would not advance and things wouldn't we wouldn't learn anything new which is you know if you look how medicine was looked at 100 years ago 200 years ago 500 years ago it's quite different what we know today I mean as of I was talking about you know in intracrinology is what they the the term that was coined in 1988 when they realized that the adrenals are actually synthesizing all of the steroid hormones where since the 20s and 30s medicine has been focused on the testes and the ovaries full stop don't they don't want to look at they don't want to open their minds and look at it because why are menopausa women still why do you know books come out every year take this take that you know you're suffering because of this and that because you're menopausal and then as it gets younger 40 late 30s the the menopausal symptoms are happening earlier and earlier and it's because people are not looking at something that is that came out in 1988 the science we have that has very little to do with ovarian production so but people are not they don't want to it's it's a cash cow you can make a lot of money selling hormones yeah yeah and um in your practice do you do you use hormones you mostly treat with uh with diet and lifestyle if they're able to affect those changes so sorry about that I don't know what happened there just my my zoom shut down so oh okay I don't know what I was saying I don't know what where we where we went um I guess I was talking about in int chronology and why you know why don't um people are not um learning new things primarily endocrinologists because we know that from 1988 that most steroid hormones are synthesized in the adrenal glands but they keep selling hormones to women so repl replacement hormone Replacements um when we know that they're all synthesized from the fat we should be eating so you can see sort of the progression stop eating fat you need hormones get worse because you're not eating fat and then you add hormones because you're told to avoid fat I mean we humans have a gallbladder why do we have a gallbladder because we're supposed to eat a lot of fat it's supposed to store all the all the bile that's supposed to render the all this fat animal fat that we eat soluble but 80% of all col cystectomies are on women yeah and that's the second second the highest rate of surgery in the US gallbladder removal yeah and it's um yeah and the and the the 4Ss female fertile fat and 4S and um and uh you know what is that that's that's woman in middle age who's probably had a couple kids had some extra baby weights trying to lose weight and everybody knows if you want to lose fat you have to stop eating fat and they just stop eating fat and stop eating fat and then all of a sudden they they go back to eating fat and they oh that hurts they go to the doctor oh you've got gall stones and it's oh it's because you eat too much fat as I and as I point out it's because you're not eating enough fat because if you eat enough fat then you're going to use that bile it's not going to be able to sit there long enough to to uh to you know solidify into to crystals and form Stones um I mean just in physiology textbooks it's taught that bile concentrates up to 20 times um in the gallbladder what does any hyperconcentrated solution do at rest it forms precipitate it forms crystals and I see I saw um I was on a rotation in general surgery rotation and there were all these these uh women mostly but also men but they had uh bariatric surgery you know for weight loss surgery and they were all in with gall stones and there's there's very high prevalence of people who get bariatric surgery who then go on to get their their gallbladder taken out because of stones and this one woman was was just really upset and she just she was just very symptomatic for G like look this is this is what this is she's like no can't be absolutely not it's not and so end up doing scans and doing the Imaging show that you definitely have gallstones and you have one that's uh really stuck in there and you're going to need you're going to need surgery and she said look I need some time to process this because there was I didn't think there was any way I could possibly have gallstones because I have not eaten fat in three months I have not eaten any fat in three months how the hell can I get this stuff like that's why you had it exactly yeah exactly but that's not what people are told no and women are told to avoid fat mean more than men women are told to avoid fat more than men are told to avoid fat so you know it's very it's very unfortunate because we need fat and we need uh we know that low cholesterol causes aggression and depression and low serotonin levels so I mean these papers have been out for a really long time well l 10 years so you know it's kind of it's very fr ating yeah yeah long long enough for people to to read anyway 10 years is long enough I mean how many how many new doctors have been graduated and gone through residency in the last 10 years and and this isn't being you passed around at all no do not yeah you could have a whole generation two three new generations five six new generations of doctors um understanding this but it's it's just not being propagated and I think that's because it doesn't it doesn't sell pills is probably ex that yeah exactly you have to follow the money yeah exactly so um as far as hormones are concerned so when you treat your patients do you do you try to address things with diet and lifestyle first and then do you use hormones as an adjunct or what is your approach I don't use any hormones so I mean I no no no no uh diet absolutely diet diet lifestyle I mean you if you if you are not able to synthesize the uh the steroids the estrogen the testosterone a lot of women are told to take testosterone because they're tired or they don't have a good libido why because testosterone is associated with veril in males although I mean I don't you know I don't understand why a woman would be told to take testosterone because it's associated with virility in males women make testosterone through the steroid hormone Cascade Cascade anyway and it is on an anned basis all the steroid hormones are synthesized on an ASN basis but if you're constantly stressed if your cortisol levels are really high you won't be synthesizing those hormones because the cortisol is all the way to left next to Progesterone and the estrogen and the testosterone all the way to the right you can't get over there and the uh the enzymes that actually do the synthesis aromatase uh which is turns the androgens into the estrogens um is reduced with high cortisol levels so it's just not happening so if you change lifestyle and you change if you add the fat that you you eat the fat is which is a raw material to make the hormones in the first place and then you reduce stress which I guess would be lifestyle changes and you also reduce carbohy remove carbohydrates which high high you know sugar we know causes higher glucose glucose levels High cortisol levels right so then you're sort of you're you're addressing the hormones just that way why add hormones you if you're adding hormones you're adding synthetics so yams and all the things that they make the uh the syn the bioidentical hormones out of are Xena estrogens Millet yams saava these are Zena estrogens it's not the cholesterol that you're cholesterol derived steroid hormones that your body is looking but all those receptors in your body are looking for yeah well that's great I mean I I really like that natural approach too and you know I see I see young uh young people young men who are you know who go in and go to the doctor and I I had one young man he was 19 years old and his testosterone was I mean it was just bottomed out out it was um it was about like 120 it just tiny just AB I mean you should have been had testosterone pouring out of his years at that age and um and yet you know very low if you went to sort of a traditional talk be like oh well you're in you know primary testicular failure you're just you know you're just not you're just not going to make testosterone you're going to have to be on testosterone the rest of your life and there are people like that um there are there's like Stan eting is a you know professional body Builder that was his story he was 19 he's in college he was working out all year and just not getting any gains in the gym he's just a skinny kid and um went to the doctor and his testosterone was almost nothing so okay here you go put him on testosterone and then of course he figured that if he took testosterone he' get results he took a lot more testosterone get a lot more results and he became a um you know sort of steroid abusing um bodybuilder you know as you know openly talks about it and um but I mean imagine that the course of his life how different that would be if his doctor just said hey you know what are you eating are you drinking too much you're a freshman in college of course you are you know let's let's focus on what you're what you're doing to your body and see if we can fix that when I put this kid on a carnivore diet and he didn't even didn't even do it all the way you know he still had cheat days and still had some rice every now and then but just eating a lot more meat and cutting out most everything else and mostly carnivore most days is is testosterone jumped up to 400 in two months you know I mean it was nothing it was it was no time at all it was just you just literally just removing the impediments to your body you just drop the anchor and let your body get on with it and I I much prefer that approach as well yeah and the um so that brings us to to my other question what about adolescence what what are some of the the things that people can do you've written books on on hormonal development and the importance of of of optimizing hormonal Health at different stages so what should parents be thinking about with their children their adolescence and teenage children going through puberty to support their hormonal health and development well I have to add well obviously diet of course but I have to also have to add iodine because the thyroid hormone actually triggers Adolescence in both males and females and we know that iodine levels have to be you have to have iodine in order to make thyroid hormones right that's the raw material for thyroid hormones so uh since puberty is triggered by thyroid TSH goes up 3t3 levels go you know T3 levels go up they they go up because they're needed to grow tissue it's you need tissue growth right so in females breasts get bigger uter the uterus gets bigger the ovaries get bigger female s character sexual characteristics are tissue growth males too but to somewhat lesser extent so they need iodine p bral children you know teens need iodine both male and female I think females need it more because there's more tissue growth so that's really important so the diet you have to have the fat in order to trigger the Androgen hormones in order to make Purity happen starts with thyroid goes to Androgen hormones which would then be obviously fat that we have to eat and if you have enough a both then things should be fine okay great and so is are things like iodized salt enough or do you recommend people no no absolutely not I recommend Lugal iodine that's the old you know Jean Lugal 15% solution which is now called 5% in in the US primarily because basically they're just counting the the elemental iodine and not the potassium iodide that is in the solution so it's actually a 15% iodine but it is now called 5% okay and um that is an essential nutrient that unfortunately with fluoride and pfas and all the substances that we have in the world today which are all substances that interfere with the absorption of iodine so 100 years ago G belts were Bolivia Switzerland Michigan the the Tennessee mountains where my family's from mountainous areas the soil doesn't have iodine because it's washed down right it's washed away in the soil but nowadays because there are so many substances that interfere with the absorption of iodine it's much you know there's a lot more iodine insufficiency okay and so how much of the Lugal do you would you recommend for people to take two drops two drops of uh you know 155% okay yeah all right great um so what does anything change in that in that uh model obviously diet but is there anything else that you would add for someone who's just in you know uh early adulthood and uh and then going into menopause and and old age is there any changes along the way well we talked about lifestyle so in my menopause book I wrote about clubbing and drinking and Drug taking these are all things that raise cortisol levels so if you don't it Ultram marathoning I mean I'm an athlete and I used to run too much and I used to spar too much and I definitely affected my adrenals I think that that has to be considered there's a lot there ABS you know um athletes teenage athletes they're pushing themselves they're burning through nutrients so much faster than the people who aren't doing athletic Pursuits if your child is athletic and if it's on if your child is on a team you would definitely want to increase the protein increase the fat and increase the iodine because they're burning through those nutrients a lot faster than somebody who isn't training for track so those are things that we have to definitely consider things that are raising cortisol levels we know from a study that's from from 2021 athletes who recovered athletes who did really hard um high-intensity training on a high fat diet they recovered much more quickly than people on a carb diet so things like that so the fat lowers the cortisol which comes from training nice great is there anything that that you would recommend for people that are well past menopause people are 70s 80s in the elderly population is anything special that they need to do same we all I mean we're human beings we need those hormones forever from bir from from fetus to death we are synthesizing steroid hormones so um no these the same principles the blind perfect yeah well it's all yeah and that's the thing too is that um there a question a lot of people get you know is this safe for kids what about elderly people uh what about women what about men uh you know I've heard you say that U women for hormonal support or it may need more fat than men is that correct yes definitely I would I would give women more fat than men um I it's a difference of five to 10% but it depends on what you're doing if a woman says I'm lifting heavy I'm going to say yeah I mean you want to be sure that you're eating enough protein uh but I think that we want to get to the point where we can just listen to the hunger cues and when there's more stress you're going to want more fat when you have less or you're going to the gym those days you might want more protein it really when you can hear when you've removed the stim when you've removed the foods that are raising your cortisol levels or causing inflammation you can hear what your body's saying better you can say you can feel oh I want to reach more for some more butter today because it's going to make me calm down it's going to make me address the stress that I'm experiencing at this time better okay and then so what are the the optimal fat ratios that you found uh for men and women well I usually for for women uh or any kind of anti I call it an anti-inflammatory protocol I'm doing 8020 I'm giving people 8020 depends obviously it depends upon their height it depends upon you know their height primarily their structure so we know that 802s they're going to be in ketosis and they're not going to be hungry uh was usually for man I do 75 25 or maybe 7030 depends upon the situation okay um and just to jump back to iodine real quick recommend iodine taking supplement with iodine all throughout life or is it really primarily in adolescence I would say it starts in adolescence um there are many children who have um just to give you an example a hypothyroid mother is going to have a child who is possibly if she's hypothyroid during her pregnancy and it's not caught because they're just testing TSH and free T4 right or they're just T testing T4 and TSH I had so many patients who were pregnant and were afterwards they had postpartum depression they had issues during the you know during delivery all because of being hypothyroid or they had the hemorrhaging right as you know when they were giving birth they they they couldn't stop the bleeding they get hysterectomies it's really sad so but all this is due to being hypothyroid so those children may be predisposed toward during adolescence because that is when you need more thyroid hormone may be predisposed toward uh possibly when things get more difficult more nutritionally expensive shall always say they need some support so it I mean one drop for a child is absolutely fine iodine is excreted via the urine you know comes through the urine so it's not going to it's not something you have to worry about it's an essential nutrient yeah okay yeah perfect um and so so talking about thyroid Health obviously you know I I I check every aspect of the thyroid TSH 3t3 T4 T3 all these sorts of things um but a lot of doctors don't a lot of doctors would just check TSH and if that's okay they just sort of let the rest hang uh what are your thoughts on that and what are your thoughts on um what people can do if if their TSH is normal and their free T4 is normal why isn't everything else okay well TSH is not a very good measure because only you know you know that the the uh T4 and T3 T4 is conver ConEd into T3 and that conversion is done by deases right so certain tissues D1 tissues D1 T have D1 and certain other tissues have D2 so the TSH is really only communicating to certain tissues kidney tissue muscular SC tissue there's a bunch of other tissues that aren't using TSH to communicate to the thyroid so it's a flawed measure from the get-go yeah and then um so I heard you talk I've heard you talk about um uh other nutrients and minerals and things like that to support so things like zinc and things like that for the conversion of T4 into T3 what are some of the different minerals and nutrients that you might look for in a patient to see how to best support them I don't I just make them eat a carnivore diet even they're all in they're all in our meat why should we for example selenium is very easily toxic too much selenium will prevent hormone conversion so people are popping 200 micrograms of and they're eating Brazil nuts Brazil nuts are horrible uh so it depends on where the soil gr you know certain trees have more FL you know more selenium than other trees nuts right it's just it's like tea why tea is so bad because the tea plants are growing in fluoride rich soil which prevents iodine absorption so the body is looking for these minerals in meat they're not it's not looking for Brazil not selenium or zinc from I don't know what kind of supplement company made it it's really just looking for it from me yeah perfect uh that's that's absolutely Fant that's exactly what I like to hear that's what I do just like yeah I I I actually had a patient today uh who said that know like her husband was um you know overweight and um you know she she had wanted to test all these different sorts of things and we talked about this and you know got her on a carnivore diet and she said you know do you think I need to bring my husband in here to check all these sorts of things I'm like I don't I don't know why just just do the same thing you know I mean he's GNA you guys have been eating the same thing you're gonna have the same nutritional deficiencies it's G to get fixed by doing the same thing so just just do that you know like if he wants to check his hormones he wants to do these other sorts of things we can do that but um I'm going to tell them the same thing you know just just eat eat meat don't eat anything else right thank exactly and maybe reduce some of the activities that prevent you from absorb absorbing those nutrients properly which would be again cortisol yeah exactly um so I've heard this the the idea um speaking of hormonal health and specifically in female Health that women require carbohydrates pre cycle what are your thoughts on that no no it's it's it's again it's all part of the same why would they require them I don't I just it just confounds me why the same thing with thyroid women need thyroid hor I mean need carbohydrates to have adequate thyroid hormone levels I don't get I don't know where this is coming from there were studies in the 80s that showed that uh when you put somebody on on an 800 calorie diet their T3 levels were go down well sure they're starving you can't make your body's going to not produce an active growth hormone an activity hormone and a metabolic hormone if there's no metabolism if there's no food and in order for it to grow any tissue so it I don't know where this is coming from so I know the thyroid one is coming from that and they're actually one of those studies they saw that if you added more fat the T3 levels would come back a lot faster so it's it's just ludicrous no women do not need carbohydrates to make hormones they're all made out of fat Anthony yeah cholesterol yeah yeah perfect I was I always wondered at that as well just because you know we'd have to think of this naturally you know we we haven't had doctors and and um and people to tell us that oh this is how you have to do this based on these numbers at at a certain point in our history not that long ago people had to do things intuitively we had to be out in the wild and just just eating naturally and and what about that time period and we didn't have bon bonss back then we didn't have you know confectionary stores we just had what we had available in the while and so something would have to tell you I need carbs and then You' have to change your Dynamic and instead of eating what the entire rest of the tribe is eating you would you would go and dig up some tubers or something like that and just and something would have to tell you naturally to do that which doesn't make sense and no it didn't do that yeah exactly it didn't do that we evolved to eat the meat and our actually our bodies changed tremendously and our health deteriorate tremendously from the Advent of Agriculture we know that the that the OB obstetrical dilemma women having babies was a lot it was a lot more easier for women to give birth when we were hunter gatherers than when we since the Advent of Agriculture when we started eating carbohydrates our hips changed the shape changed oh interesting so that is enough of and I talk about that in the new book uh it's actually called The obstetrical Dilemma why do women die during child birth why is it so difficult and painful because we started eating carbohydrates that is is that is that making higher birth weights and and larger heads and things like that or that that the hips as well well yeah humans have big heads because we have our huge brain which we develop by eating meat and fat so when we started eating carbohydrates that didn't change but the the um the bone structure changed the female bone structure changed yeah interesting we're a lot shorter too sorry we're a lot shorter too yeah definitely yeah and and um and birth weights have gone up too and that's the thing too when you see gestational diabetes is associated with larger birth weights and that's going to come from carbohydrates as well you have this sort of precocious growth it's not necessarily that their that their brains are bigger more developed and that they're better it's just that they're they're inflated with insulin and and carbohydrates um and then they get stuck which is sort of inappropriate it's not really going to it's going going to go too well in the wild and that was one thing too I I remember PE people trying to say that like well yes you know heads are getting bigger babies are getting bigger and we're just and we're getting bigger brains well no we're not we got smaller brains on average for agriculture definitely smaller yeah and so like 11% smaller for men and i' I've found 177% smaller for women on average and that was immediately after Agriculture and that's persisted until today and then in sort of in the last century we've had higher birth weights higher and higher birth weights and they're saying well this is just we're evolving to get bigger like that's that's not how Evolution works that it doesn't go that quick just in a hundred years slam all these things change it's some sort of environmental issue and we're we're abnormally growing these kids so that they have abnormally High birth weights and now we have misshaping pelvis and so we can't get these kids out properly and we're just getting getting more and more problems as a result of that yeah well it's also a lot of other I mean puberty is happening what seven and eight it used to happen in 168 all this because of carbohydrates um there's a there's a lot there are a lot of changes with the carbohydrates I mean humans are born we we're only supposed to have three three kids humans right and with the Advent of Agriculture women had 12 to 14 children in places where agriculture was you know more grainy Italy for instance this south south of Italy very agricultural uh the north always had more meat and the South had more pasta and fora so that's where the uh the fertility was many many more people to put in the fields to work died much younger and health was not improved and they associate agriculture with uh increased fertility but that doesn't mean it's a good thing because there it's very fertility is very nutritionally expensive so if you have 12 kids the last six there's going to be some nutritional deficiencies yeah and also you know um increased fertility doesn't mean that there were low fertility rates in the other populations it just means that that it was advantageous to have more and more children to help you work the farm whereas if you're you're out there hunting you know you don't you know having 12 kids you know you're not getting better hunts necessar unless you're going for mammoths you know then you want a lot of people or you know Buffalo drop or something like that but if you're just out going after deer in the wild then you know more kids are a liability really also the women uh did not get pregnant because of the carbohydrate the lack of carbohydrate just eating a high-fat diet you're going to have uh your your cycle women nurse three to four years they didn't nurse year to six six months to a year so that is another thing it's more that the fertility the fertility increased because of high insulin and you know we know that sugar and Insulin causes a higher you know irregular levels of estrogen so it was that that caused the increase fertility not in a good way because we as humans did not evolve to have so many children and so that's interesting you know you look at like uh you know biblical references like when when Adam and Eve were kicked out of the Garden of Eden it said in there now pregnancy is going to hurt and um and I sort of wondered like when that that sort of went if we were sort of thinking about our you know our sort of our stories on our path of where in an evolutionaries time frame like where that would have been and um and you're you're thinking that it's probably around agriculture that that yes when that sort absolutely absolutely we know that it's we have that documented and we have that know uh evolutionary biology There's an actual practice and that's what they're that's all they're looking at yeah I I thought it was interesting those sort of those sorts of stories because you know you can you can sort of think like in the B original Dream time there was this like time where everyone was living in a dream and all these things were being made and I always thought that was a very very interesting and elegant way of describing the the mentality and the Consciousness or semiconscious of people before they were quite people and then there's that transition we went from eight to sort of more where we are today and then people just started realizing hey we're a bit different we have a bit bit more going on here and then they came up with more oral traditions and talks and like maybe that was sort of the dream time was that before when when we weren't really quite people yet and um and things like the biblical story and it's not to offend anybody from any religious standpoint but um I've always thought about this as you know potentially being that when we were living in nature and just everything was peaceful and calm and quiet and wonderful and then there's all of a sudden this start where we sort of had Consciousness we we sort of knew the difference between good and evil and right and wrong and we started knowing more and then all a sudden we were shy and we hid our bodies and had painful births and all these sorts of things that there's a there's a point that I mean we didn't all grow up in the Victorian era you know completely covered head to toe and it would be an absolute Scandal if you showed your ankle or something like that you know we used to be running around naked not that long ago you know the Greeks were basically naked 247 in in the summer um but I was wondering about that and um I wonder like sort of when that happened in that oral tradition and um and then I remember reading about fire and how fire we've had fire for at least 800,000 years and there's evidence that we were actually using sort of ovens around 800,000 years ago and potentially fire a lot longer than that some people say anywhere from 1.5 million to two 2.5 million years um Dr Bill Schindler thinks we probably have had fire for at least two million years because when the ice ages started coming down hilis started moving up into the ice into the cold and it's like that would be a lot easier if you had fire so he's thinking that maybe it was around that time and there's in every culture there's a fire myth you know Prometheus you have is is a very famous one and all these different that that brought Humanity out of darkness and mud and misery and brought them up to rival the gods and their power and that was so long ago that was so long ago that they figured that out but at one point it was within living memory and someone's grandfather was there telling them like you have no idea how much this sucked Without fire and just telling people how horrible it was and then that got passed down and passed down until today so those those myths are ancient absolutely ancient and I always wonder about things like the dream time if that were uh a similar sort of um a similar sort of thing about describing what it was like when we didn't really know how to describe things uh total tangent but I just thought was sort of interesting no it is interesting it's very we have to look at all those things to figure out where how we got to where we are today I we we used to move around a lot and then we had a plethora of things and we didn't move around anymore and that's when we figured out how to turn grass into grain and that's where it all kind of went downhill from there people used to get eaten by saber-tooth tigers and maybe fall out of trees and they had a lot of acute injuries as a you'd say osteopathic right but nobody died of of disease they literally just died from acute injury so it's a big change yeah and yeah that was the thing people say that well yes well yes we've we've been eating meat for millions of years been apex predator for millions of years but that doesn't mean it's healthy I'm like well we'd be the only animal species on Earth that has ever existed that it wouldn't be healthy for uh to do that well all you had to do is get to reproductive age and then you just died and people died at 40 I mean okay were you there 200,000 years ago was there Census Data from that I mean how how how do you know that why would you just make that up um but we don't see signs of disease in these fossils I mean it's and they're they're scarce I mean we don't have we have I think it's like 2,000 really old fossils and things like that they're not always well preserved but we don't see signs of disease in them sometimes we see just perfectly formed teeth that they've never had cavities or or perfectly formed and yeah and they're they're very healthy there's no sign of disease there you know the bones and the joints and and everything like that they're just perfectly intact there's no signs of this disease and then immediately after agriculture you have signs of poor wound healing old scars in the bones and just weird Twisted shapes you know smaller jaw smaller brain smaller skulls fall and dental arches signs of infection and tuberculosis eating away at different bones throughout the spines you don't see that before that you know so if we were getting all these chronic diseases from all this horrible evil meat that isn't horrible or evil for any other animal on earth even herbivores because you see elk eating rabbits and ducklings and I've seen that personally and um horses eating little baby chickens on farms and things like that I have a video of that on my my Instagram this horse just noeling around just chomped this little little chicken like oh my God um it causes no disease to no animal and yet for some reason it does to us even though we've we've been eating it for millions of years and would be well adapted to it and yet there's zero evidence of any disease in these skeletons so you know if people were just just dying of horrible diseases you know very young like you'd see that you'd see some some evidence of that but that doesn't come until after Agriculture and so the people that that keep trying to SP spin these these wheels are just I mean it's just it's just pure fiction and they're they're just you know they're just they're just I don't know I don't know who they're trying to convince us or themselves well they're also trying to keep it for themselves right so if you use Italy as an example the poor got the P pasta and the Grain and the rich people had the meat I mean Robin Hood used to go around stealing from the rich and giving to the poor he was giving them meat right so mostly trying to because the poor were not allowed to hunt in the King's uh King's Forest so they want to keep it for themselves they don't want the rest of us to have it there's so many more people because of Agriculture more and more poor people because of Agriculture but the wealthy well well Todo want to keep the meat for themselves and it just sort of continues that that fiction as you say yeah which is pretty nasty you know like why wouldn't you just figure out how to get more meat and just have everybody be healthy you know like why is it why does it's that sort of bully mentality you know that you have to tear it's like that you know just like Junior High sort of thing where you have to tear someone else down to try to bring yourself up and it's just you know it's it's life is not does not have to be a zero Something game you know like you don't have to it someone else doesn't have to suffer for you to gain that's not actually how it works but they sometimes seem seem to think that it is and you know you have the these people these oligarchs trying to tear down other people like you know the system in America you know like uh people don't like Rockefeller all these sorts of people but how they made their Fortune they came from next to nothing to be fabulously wealthy uh was because you know you just just you just work hard you do these things you you find something that helps people it's you know it's forced altruism that's how the system is supposed to work a true free market system is forced altruism where you know you may be as greedy as you want but no one's going to give you money just because you're greedy you have to do something that someone else wants and will pay you for and there's con artists that sell you know fake nonsense but you know that doesn't go very far you know the people that make the most money or the people like Rockefeller who figured out how to make kerosene so cheap that everyone could afford it so he could sell it to everyone it wasn't just the wealthy that they could have it um you know it's the it's the Toyota model versus the the Rolls-Royce model Rolls-Royce you got a couple bespoke cars you have had a massive um you know profit margin or Toyota that sells thousands of times more cars but at a lower profit margin and they're way more successful you know so why wouldn't they do that why do you have to tear other people down and gouge them for you to do better like you would do better if you just made things useful for people now I think they're just sort of doing both they're they're trying to tear people down make them sick sell them crap that they don't need and don't want convince them it's good for them and then make multiple trillions more selling them the medicine that they have to have or else they'll get even more sick and unwell because of the poison that they're being fed in the first place which just drives me crazy yeah well we you know we we evolved to eat the meat and we didn't evolve to eat vitamin D coming from a capsule or and we evolved to get it from fat so we only have to get from capsules and drops because we're told not to eat animal fat it just goes it could basically put pour everything in the direction of diet yeah absolutely well that's the thing I I think the statistic I saw was there's nearly 90% of the the maladies that are being treated nowadays um are are non-communicable chronic diseases the ncds and I think that pretty much every one of the those um if not everyone then close to it is is a product of poor diet and it could be just sorted out with I agree with diet I agree they're not acute injuries no no and you know yeah I mean what was medicine for thousands of years it was acute injuries it was pregnancy and childbirth infectious disease congenital congenital and genetic sort of issues and um you know malut nutition that was a major one obviously and um and toxicity you know snake bite or you got toxic exposure or something like that now it's all chronic disease all of it's chronic disease and I think that that you know I argue that that's actually those last two the malnutrition and the toxicities is just we're getting that in the form of our food we're not getting a proper diet we're not getting the proper nutrients that we need like the vitamin D like the zinc like the iodine all these things that should be coming from our food we're not getting B12 protein fat everything things like that cholesterol and and then we're taking in the other the alternative foods that we're eating are are actually causing harm they're actually directly toxic to us to the extent that they kill us that day no but just like smoking doesn't kill you that day alcohol doesn't kill you that day cocaine and heroin don't kill you that day years and years and decades and decades this stuff builds up and you get harm over that time and there are countless studies and papers and publications about people getting Subacute um Subacute injuries from low-grade cyanide poisoning you get thyroid dysfunction goiters you get neurological dysfunction um you get um obesity from um various endocrine disruption you adrenal uh crisis and you you shut down your adrenals and um letin people hav gone to the hospital just you know they haven't cooked beans properly or they the wrong ones um ox Ates you know Liam Hemsworth the actor actually put himself in the hospital with an acute uh case of oxalate poisoning from drinking spinach smoothies every morning for three weeks you know it's just there's so many of these of these cases out there and and yet people are saying no no no dose makes the poison just forget about it but they don't say what the dose is they don't even say what the poison is they don't even know and um you know and you can't just say that it's not just a throwaway line do makes of poison yeah and the dose is very small you know and if you're saying something is a poison and can be a poison in a certain dose then it you're obligated to say what that dose is but they never do who says I believe if I'm not mistaken the safe I mean safe dosage of cide a day is zero but um who says it's okay to have up to like 10 milligrams that is not much you know like that is not all that much and if you're having that on a daily basis you this is going to cause harm and I don't see that on any packets of almonds I don't see on any packets of cassava chips or tapioca or anything like that but you know someone has Quantified this and said hey you shouldn't eat more than this and yet there never shows up on the packet you never see anybody who's a proponent of eating plants say yes you can eat this but stop here and that's just one thing just cyanide so all these other things are known to cause harm in sublethal doses over time that builds up and and yet no one is talking about you know what those doses are it just says oh dose makes a poison and and that and that's supposed to mean something people don't it actually means nothing it's a it's a meaningless statement you know they say dose makes the poison right so what's the dose and what's the poison there's there's thousands of these things in the foods that we eat there's over hundreds of thousands in all plants but of the ones we eat there's thousands tens of thousands so you know if you're not going to quantify these things and qualify that statement you shouldn't be making the statement at all but people hear that and just go oh yeah I just eat eat as much plants as you want because dose makes the poison okay well you know you eat as much as you want eventually you're going to hit that toxic dose and you're going to be in trouble yeah well they're telling us not to eat meat and fat they have to make us eat something and that would be plants it's all that's left yeah well and also they're they're trying to get us yeah they're trying to make us eat the plants which is why they're telling us that that meat and fat which is what humans have always eaten and and we want to eat are bad for us that's the only way they'll make us eat those nasty things is if we if we think that we're going to be killed by eating anything else yeah yeah well look it's pipida I mean isn't just we were talking about diseases and things uh you think about spinabifida and and neural tube defects in in newborns l iron you know Lucy Wills work in the 1930s in India I mean these are women who Mill poor MW workking Mill workers who just didn't have access to meat culturally and monetarily and what she started with liver extract what did that give them it gave them iron and then she went to Marmite because she said herself it was cheaper so it didn't mean that it was the Marmite or the B12 and eventually they isolated folate talk about a an folate why is people why are people testing folate it's only been around as a nutrient since the 1940s when they isolated from plant leaves I mean from spinach leaves you just need to B12 if you look at any papers about B12 or folate it says B12 folate because they basically do the same thing so if you're B12 deficient you need folate but you won't be B12 deficient if you eat meat yeah you won't even be be you won't be folate deficient if um I haven't unless you have some liver and things like that you can you can get some you get plenty of F that some people but even then you know when I I um I look at that too and I see people that have you know they'll have sort of like lower-end folate and absolutely no symptoms um obviously you know if you're a pregnant woman or trying to get pregnant you're obviously going to be a bit more cautious about that even if you feel good you know they're probably going to be concerned about that but as far as the individual goes it's um it's very rare that I see someone that's um it's symptomatic with any sort of issue with low fate it's they almost it wasn't isolated until the 19 until 1942 so it doesn't if humans didn't eat fola before 1942 why would they need it now it has to do B12 it's only B12 pregnant women need are concerned about it because they're told that they will have spinit or there will be neural tube defect if they don't have folate but all they need is B12 yeah interesting so yeah it all comes down to just eating meat yeah yeah well you know do you do you get um I we all get sort of attacked by by the the different vegan establishments out there do you have I'm very quiet online I mean I just have I don't put much on Instagram I don't uh you know I just work and write things and um I put out a bunch of educational videos as far as thyroid function adrenal function just because I want people to know have the information so they don't many many people are confused because they don't have the information but no not so I'm not big enough Anthony to be attack by so far yeah well um I think they uh I think they just like to attack anybody who has a difference of opinion um you know was like you know like Gary fety he um he you know he had something like four or 5 thousand followers on Instagram and and he was targeted by name by the serial companies I know I know I know his story and Linda Belinda F's done some amazing research absolutely yeah well she broke I mean she broke the case open on the seventh day Adventists and their and their ties with the nutritional colleges and and founding of the nutritionals sciences and I'm very thankful for her work absolutely yeah and um but yeah he was you know he had he had a very small following very small following um at the time and um but he he got on their radar and said hey um and this was this is actually taken um low carb down under suit for the minutes of a serial company I don't know if it was sanitarium or one of the other serial companies but Belinda talks about it in her talks but she doesn't say which which company they sued for but anyway they sued for those minutes of this of this um of the the board meeting of this company and they ended up getting it and it said specifically is like this damn ketogenic movement it's killing our serial cells we need to Target these doctors around the world and we need to shut them down get their licenses taken away and discredit them so that they can't keep pushing this and they named Gary fety by name frightening yeah and he he had 5,000 people following him at the time and then they pulled their strings and got the CEO of the Australian dietetics Association to personally call the uh head of his Hospital in Tasmania and say you need to shut this guy up you need to shut him down and they tried they absolutely tried it's absolutely crazy what they do so I think that you know at this point the cat's pretty much out of the bag and I just we have have a lot of voices now that you know they sort of whack them all they can't there's too much going on now um so I think that's that's um it's now the case that they're going to have to sort of fight this in a different way um but you know what was it there was that saying like you know first they you know first they ignore you then they laugh at you then they attack you then then you win or something like that any there's these stages of of um of approach and and I think we're just coming into the into the attack phase I don't think we've got there yet D they've been ridiculing us say oh this is crazy this is this these people are whack but now more and more people are coming up to this more practitioners like yourself are saying like look this works and I'm seeing this work in my patience I've never seen anything work better than this as Gary fi said once you see it you can't unsee it you see that work for your patient you're not going to stop using that you know if I if I'm gonna have to amputate this lady's leg he was doing amputations for diabetics yeah I have to amputate This Woman's leg and I put her on a ketogenic diet and now she doesn't need an amputation or she needs a far uh you know more conservative amputation only losing some toes as opposed to her foot and ankle you know that's a massive massive win like I'm not going to you can't stop doing that you know unless you're a monster you know you have to keep doing that you have to keep talking to people about that and so um you know more and more people are seeing this more and more people are doing this more and more people are using this in their clinical practice and seeing its effects and you know sure I get I get the odd person you know in the comments saying oh I'm a doctor and you know you're this and that and the other and you know and it's supposed to be Do no harm you're not allowed to experiment I was like really that's actually since hypocrates you're supposed to experiment you're supposed to like actually look at things and see what works and what doesn't you're not supposed to be just a a blind goat and just follow where you're LED um but um but the vast majority of of doctors that I speak to about this or who find me and look at at these these things they go like this this all makes sense this makes sense to me and this makes sense why my patients aren't really getting better and they're just sort of getting worse and we're just sort of dealing with a a massive increase in chronic disease and surgeries and problems and um and they're using it and they see it work in their patients and they and I I've I've spoken to a lot of doctors surgeons and and others that are very dis uh disenchanted with the their profession now and they don't they don't want to do it anymore they're like I don't I don't I speaking to a coloral surgeon very nice guy in America um professor of col Rectal Surgery in America and he's saying that that he's just doesn't want to do it anymore you know he's just like he's he's just he's treating a disease that that doesn't need to exist you know he wants to get into the side the preventative side and get people healthy and and healing them with their diet and lifestyle and it's like I don't I don't know if I can keep doing this you know it's just treating the the end stage of a problem that shouldn't happen in the first place and I think more and more people are coming to that and so when that happens it hits critical mass then the Laughing stage they can't laugh anymore because you know they're seeing what's happening here then they're going to go on the attack so I think we're just coming into that now that' be interesting ah are the Italians would they yeah well we'll see because I think they're um yeah we'll have to see but you know I don't think it's anything that we can't contend with and the more people that know about this more people are going to try and it's just going to it's just going to people are going to know this this helps people and it and will help them and and you don't have to buy it from someone now they're making I think part of the attack is they're trying to make U meat pretty much OB um unattainable for people trying I don't think they will succeed yeah I I I hope not and I hope if we get this move mement going enough and people talk to their politicians and talk to their ranchers and try to and bolster that economy of you know direct to Market direct from Rancher to to um consumer that that's just going to build that market up enough that a you're not going to be able to tear it down and B people are going to say hey I want I want in on that maybe I can maybe I can turn this into a b business model for myself that's what I'm hoping once it's commercially once it's clear that this is a very commercially VI um Prospect then people are just going to be like you know what let's let's just let's just let's just go with the flow That's My Hope anyway yeah yeah me too lovely all right well Dr Bry it's been an absolute pleasure thank you so much uh for coming on I really appreciate it can you please tell us um where we can find your work and find your books and more about you um the books are available everywhere I mean where books can be found I guess uh and um my website is Eliz bright.com and that's where you can find me and yeah I just put my I will be doing a thyroid book in the future but I have to recover from this one and I'll just keep writing and spreading the word basically lovely well great well I'll put I'll put the links for your uh for your website down in the description and everyone can go down there and check it out and check your work thank you Anthony you're very welcome thank you very much for coming on it's been a pleasure