Treating Arthritis Without Surgery

Welcome to the Plant-Free MD podcast with Dr. Anthony Chaffy, where we discuss diet and nutrition and how this affects health and chronic disease and show you how you can use this to optimize your health and happiness both mentally and physically. Hello everyone. Thank you for joining me for another episode of the PlantFree MD podcast. I'm your host Dr. Anthony Chaffy and today I have a very special guest, my good friend Phil Escott who is joining me now I think for the third time uh to talk about his work in autoimmunity and some other fun stuff that comes up along the way. Phil, how are you sir? >> I'm good. Thank you Anthony. Thank you so much for having me on again. >> Yeah, of course. Um for people haven't seen uh our interviews before, please go back. They're all on YouTube and on my my podcast, so people can can go and check that out. uh for people who haven't come across you, Phil, can you let us know a bit about yourself and what you do? >> Sure. Yeah, I'll I'll skip over it a bit because, you know, they can go back and see it. I think I've waffled about my story a lot, but um my my history is sort of vegetarianism and veganism for 30 odd years and thinking that I knew what I was talking about, writing books about it and everything on plant-based eating and then getting so sick in 2010 um with seriatic arthritis and lots of other things, all sorts of metabolic issues and fatty liver and cysts on the liver and kidney stones from the spinach smoothies and all of this sort of thing and um then spending about 3 years really looking into it and um going far more animal-based and ending up pretty much with you know fatty meat and a few roast veg and then 2015 went carnivore. So this is my 11th year now. Wow. >> Yeah. >> And um it it was it was amazing actually. I had Eddie Gouki on on my podcast the other day and he's so brilliant. I mean, amazing knowledge. And I said to her, I I've been I've been carnivore like half your life and you know way more than me about all the all the science of it. But it's just having that personal experience and the and the and the the journey because I've made every wrong turn there is really and and so now to be able to work with clients who have all any autoimmunity or metabolic issue really but um mostly rheumatoid and soratic seroriatic arthritis because I've made all the mistakes and it's amazing how many times I see tiny mistakes bringing people down, you know, and back into into into flare-ups. And I think, you know, when I messed up in 2022 and you had me back on the podcast and I'd lost like 45 pounds I didn't need to lose and a CRP of 192 and I was in serious trouble. But it took me with the help of Sophia as well, our mutual friend Sophia Clemens from Paleo Medicine, you know, I I won't let the NHS read my blood results, but I sent them to Sophia and we chatted about it and I had no doubts by then. And so it was back onto really strict beef, lamb, salt and water, PKD and um and I I you know no dairy, no pork, no chicken, no eggs, which I had been toying with because I thought I'll be immune by now. Um and and it took 3 months or so to get out of it whereas it took three years previously up to the time, you know, 2013 2014 when I wrote that book, Arthritis, the best thing that ever happened to me. So that's out there and and it shows all my sort of struggles with the with the NHS and then finding out about diet and then then all the nice woo woo spiritually stuff at the end. But I think uh you know my journey was was um unusual in a way because nowadays there's a lot of info out there. You know if people just go watch your stuff they'll figure it out. But that wasn't out there, you know, 2010, 2011. And so I had to get through all the dogma and all the brainwashing myself. And so that's what I like to do now is is is just in in any way that I can to try and get people out of all that brainwashing and um not believing that there's a way out of it because rheumatologists tell you that it's not curable and that gets in their heads >> and they lose decades of their life. >> Yeah. Yeah, they do. And that I think that's one of the most discouraging and and defeating things you can hear from your doctor when you say, "Hey, is there anything I can do? Can I change my diet? Can I fix this? Can I do that?" And they just look at and you just go, "No, no, there's nothing you can do." And um you're just going to have to take the drugs and that's it. And basically they they're telling them that this is just an act of God and you know Apollo is mad at you or the spirits of of Heb have have have been pissed off and you you're just and you're just cursed and that's it and there's and there's nothing you can do. There's nothing you can change it. You just have to take these drugs. And that's that's very discouraging for people because what what they're hearing is that there's that it's hopeless. you know that this is just something that they're at the whim of the universe. The doctor might be trying to say something encouraging like, "Hey, don't worry about it. You don't have to change anything. Just keep doing what you're doing. That's that's not a concern." Saying, "It's not going to make it worse. It's not going to make a problem. Just eat what you want. It's not a big deal." But what they hear is there's nothing I can do. It's out of my control. And and I hear cancer patients get told that. >> And probably the same thing where their doctors are thinking, "Well, look, you've got a serious disease. just enjoy your life. Do what you want. No, it doesn't matter. Just just eat and drink whatever you want. But what they hear is this is completely out of my control and I have no hope and I can't do anything about that. People need to need to know or need to think and feel that they have some control over their life. It's very important for their psychology. And you get very depressed and very miserable. And that's going to make you have a worse outcome if you if you feel that your your life is not under your own control. And >> I've been I've been there at the beginning, you know, being told by the rimtologist that that's it. You got to be on these meds for life. And you know, I tried them for a month or so and had sort of psychotic experiences. My fingers turned yellow from the um sulfa salazine and it were just awful, awful stuff. But we do do get told it. Now, data, my misses, you've met her. You we we met her in Spain, but she's a nurse in the NHS and she came home the other day and she said they'd had a diabetes specialist in to come and talk to them about diabetes and the first thing that they stressed was, "This has nothing to do with diet." >> I mean, what the hell? Diabetes as far as I'm concerned is is the lowhanging fruit of ailments of of of metabolic chronic diseases. It reverses very very quickly. We're talking type two here. You know type one though amazing and there are great advances being coming out with that as you mentioned in this brilliant chapter of your book that we're going to talk about. But um type two it's so easy >> and yet there's nothing there. They get told that. I have a good friend here at the moment, American friend of mine. He's um he was a manager of our band back in the early 90s. I've known him since then. He helped me actually with the arthritis book. He's he's utterly brilliant. Managed some of the most amazing musicians in the world. And he's actually in in my town at the moment. And uh he was living in Bali. Actually, if anybody's listening to this, go and listen to my podcast episode with him because Ken Koch because he um he was amazing amazing episode. It's like Midnight Express. He was imprisoned, wrongly imprisoned for a trumped up um possession charge and he was in a horrific jail in Barley and his story is amazing. It's on my podcast. Have a listen to it. >> But anyway, Ken, he's got diabetes. He's kind of managing it, but he hasn't quite understood how strict he needs to be. I took him out to the beautiful local grass-fed farm and he came back with some great steaks, but also with a a jam cake, you know, and I'm like, Ken, you can't do this anymore. He's got neuropathy in in his feet and he's they're going numb and he went to the doctor and and they said, "Yeah, nothing much we can do about it." I said, "Just, you know, when their gangrin has come back, we'll cut them off." It's basically what they said. They're not black yet. They've not completely died. And he's even he's saying like, "What happened to preventive medicine here? It's it's absolutely extraordinary, you know. It really is. But they're still caught up in this thing. It's like I remember early in my journey, the rheatologist said to me, "Okay, HLAB 27, you've got this. It's showing up on the blood test. That's why you've got arthritis." So then you go home and you Google and it say, "Yeah, this is kind of common among people with arthritis." But then when you look deeper a little bit, most people who have it don't have arthritis, so it's obviously not the cause. And when we were in Spain together in 2024 and I did I did my talk uh before yours and I was saying I don't think there's any such thing as autoimmunity. I don't I think it's a flawed concept and it's just an intuition with me really that the body is not stupid enough to attack itself. >> Yeah. >> And agree >> then then you and I thought oh there's docks out there you know there's you and there's no fear. they're probably going to think I'm nuts and but I'm going to go with this one. And then you did the talk and you said pretty much the same thing, but you actually explained it properly. >> And this thing, this is the one key thing that really got to me that I wish everybody knew that it's attacking the the the invaders, right? And it develops antibodies towards that. And then if it was molecular mimicry or autoimmunity, it would carry on, would it not? But the antibodies are still there and the symptoms go. Now that was a huge light bulb moment for me and and I talk about that because I think people need to hear that. It's utterly brilliant and that would blow everything rheumatologists say out of the water. I think >> yeah I think I mean I think we've definitely got it all wrong and we have been treating autoimmune diseases since 1800 with nutritional interventions of just a beef and water diet like um Dr. James. >> Yeah. And he he was curing rheumatoid arthritis, Crohn's, gout, ulcerative colitis, and tuberculosis. All sorts of things that we would never think that could be immunable to just simple dietary patterns and changes. But diabetes though, I mean, that one that one's just barn door. I mean, we have randomized or we have clinical trials in humans showing that you can reverse this by changing diets by going on a ketogenic diet. and was that 52 or 54% of people went into clinical remission after you know the the during this 2-year trial with um with Verta Health in in America. So that you know you you we know that that's affected by by that. We know that and I mean I I just call I don't even call it a disease anymore. Why you call it carbohydrate poisoning? >> It's like I mean there's other things that cause insulin resistance, but it is largely a product of just elevated I mean that's what it is at the end of the day. It's elevated >> carboh it's elevated blood sugar and you're being poisoned by that blood sugar and that's damaging and glycating your vessels. It's causing damage to the blood blood vessels. So you're damaging blood supply to your nerves. You get peripheral neuropathy damages the the vessels to your kidneys. So you get number one cause of kidney failure is diabetes and high blood sugar. uh damages vessels to your eyes. So number one cause of blindness is in adults is high blood sugar diabetes. Number one cause of getting your legs chopped off and amputated is high blood sugar diabetes. And so this is this is carbohydrate poison. You are being poisoned by the carbohydrates. They are damaging your body. And so get rid of them, you know, and don't even have the spikes. Just have it to flatline so you don't get you don't get that damage from the area under the curve and you certainly don't build up. And there's other things that contribute to to insulin resistance, but carbohydrates definitely do that. And so when you cut these things out and you go just ketogenic and or or whatever, you know, you you do dietary changes and you see that reverse, how can you argue that it's not diet? So I I guarantee you that gentleman going around there fighting saying it's definitely not diet. he was being paid to go and say that he was probably he was probably on 900 different boards and and um and uh had financial affiliations with all sorts of food and drug companies and he was being paid to use his clout and authority to go around and make you know make the rounds and say this is definitely not to do with diet. Just keep drinking your sodas and your and your diet and your Cokes. And um you know we this is in the literature too. This is in textbooks. Uh for 150 years, this was the treatment for type 1 and type two diabetes. It's in the medical textbooks. I have my great-grandfather's medical textbook uh from Sir William Osler, which was the most famous textbook of the time. I mean, he was kned for his for writing this textbook and how groundbreaking it was, how excellent was his work in medical education. And so it's Sir William Osler wrote this book. And I have the seventh edition from 1910. This is 11 years before insulin was was discovered. And so there's a chapter on diabetes and and the treatment. He was the first professor of medicine from John's Hopkins. He was the most famous doctor in the world at the time. And this was the seinal textbook that just if you knew anything, you you would have this this book as a doctor. And in the chapter on diabetes, it said straight up, you know, um that um they said, you know, we we do what Sidenheim um recommends who was a 17th century uh physician who, you know, put people he said, you know, eat um uh food that is readily digestible like ve and mutton and then stay away from all fruits and vegetables. He called it fruits and garden stuff, which I think is great. and um and then said, you know, keep keep carbs down to a minimum or zero if you can. And so that was from Sidenheim back in the 1600s and 16 1700s, forget exactly which one, long ass time ago. And that and he wasn't specifically going for for diabetes, but that was basically all his patients. He said, "This is how you should eat." So this goes back hundreds of years. And then when they they started treating this with with um with more meat-based carnivore ketogenic diets, it was really a carnivore diet. I mean, you're you're telling people just eat ve and mutton, cut out all fruits and vegetables, and keep carbs down to to zero if you can. That's a carnivore diet. And that is from the most famous professor of medicine at Johns Hopkins ever. And one of the most famous medical educators ever, one of the most famous medical textbooks ever. He was kned for that for that work. And it was if you're diabetic, go on a carnivore diet and it just cures it. So they they didn't differentiate between type one and type two and and um you understanding the sort of the different mechanisms. They just you know the diabetes was you had you're peeing constantly and copiously and it's sweet, right? You have glucose in your urine and >> that was that was the diagnosis, wasn't it? Taste their urine. Must have been great being a dog back. >> That's the name. That's the name. Diabetes means, you know, copious peeing and mellois means sweet, you know, it means sweet pee and you pee a lot and and it tastes sweet. As opposed to incipitus that doesn't taste sweet. So yeah, there's there's little like beers and things like that. There's like a urine decanter where you put it in there and you look at the color and hold it up and look at this and smell it and taste it and maybe maybe I mean that's that's a job for a resident. I think that's definitely get the intern over here, you know. I was like, "Come on, come on, pea boy." And uh and um but yeah, but that was that was it. It was um he said in that chapter that adult, you know, people that that had this set on in adulthood had had, you know, very good success with that. You know, it just was was it was really good rates. Juveniles, kids that that got diabetes, uh they had a they had a much worse time. Uh they had a very high mortality rate. which would be like the type 1 diabetics usually called juvenile diabetes and he said that it was it was very high mortality rate. They would tend to live you know 7 to9 months and then you know a lot of them would die but analyze that sentence because he said high mortality rate not this is universally fatal. So that means some were surviving long term >> and that the that the natural sort of progression was they would survive for another 7 to n months and then most of them would would not make it. So that meant that without insulin as a type 1 diabetic these kids were living nearly a year on average just just by eating a carnivore diet, ketogenic carnivore. Some were living, some were surviving long term, >> you know. >> Well, Zopia's had great results in this, hasn't she? At Paleo Medicine with kids and and now she has to be very careful because she go into trouble with that because they don't like that at all. It's funny, you know, I I think that there must be the the the drug companies now must be in some kind of desperation about that because >> it is kind of encouraging. I I go on to sometimes you you go to um diabetes groups like in various countries or whatever they have their Facebook groups and they put on yeah you must uh you must always make sure that you keep your carbs up and you do this and you and you look and you see 95% of the comments are >> what the like have you really not noticed this yet? What the hell are you still saying this for? It's like it's bots or something because I think it actually might be automated because >> we were chatting before before we recorded. But talking about Facebook groups, I I used to go into Facebook groups, even healing naturally arthritis groups, and you go into them and they have a banner pick of all these berries and broccoli and stuff, and you think, "Oh, this is going to be trouble here." You know, and to mention that you can actually reverse this by eating nothing but fatty meat. >> It's they're horrified. They're absolutely horrified. You get a load of attacks and I'd get thrown out very quickly. I mean, it must been six years ago now. I made a video saying why rheumatoid arthritis groups stop you healing and that I was going to give up completely. And I because it's it's hardly worth it really. I think I must have been thrown out of every arthritis group on Facebook. But then somebody tagged me who knew my stuff, you know, and tagged me in this group with 90,000 people. And I went in, I looked at it and I went, "Do I really want to get drawn in?" I thought, "I can't help it." You know, I started to look at this group and every post is pictures of their swollen joints, you know, how can I get rid of a flare? Anybody know any supplements? Or I'm having trouble with my medication. um methtraate is causing me this problem and that problem. Any tips? No problem with those posts. And then I did start answering things. I couldn't help it. People saying, "How how do I get rid of this inflammation?" I'd say, "Well, fully carnivore diet, >> you know, and then you get the attacks underneath." So eventually I put this post up just saying, "All right, guys. Look, really high fat. I've just basically spelt out the PKD thing, you know, really high fat, ruminant animals only, a little bit of organs. Be patient. It'll work. It'll do it. So many attacks. They just they they they can't comprehend it. And I think this the the heartbreaking thing to me is that I've been in that much agony. And I I really would love to see these people helped, but they won't take it on board at all. And some of some of the things that happen. I mean, I'll I'll just I'll just have a a little um go. This this is you know somebody in particularly in that group really started pursuing me around and saying admins help throw him out. You know this guy is a is a snake oil salesman and he gets all over the place. They'd actually misidentified me with somebody else but he gets all over all the groups of every ailment. I don't I haven't done it for years but you know he's selling some awful stuff and and then they they somebody Googles you and says oh he's just selling books and courses. I said have I mentioned a book or course? So I edited the post and I said anyone who Googles this anything they find of mine for through this group they can have it for free courses books anything you find out there I haven't mentioned anything of it you lot have >> and so you know you can have it for free anyway and then this went on and on and this woman said to me because I said look you know I always stay chilled with them like you do I love the way you stay chilled with attackers >> always stay chilled always stay polite and this this cuz this woman came up really having a go at me all the way around. Admins, throw them out. But the admins are actually bots now, apparently. And I think that they're setting up these groups and leaving them automated just to let them discuss this crap between themselves and and and sort of feel sorry for themselves and each other. That's okay. When they're spending 5,000 a month on Enrell or Humira or something like that, and yet somebody who offers something for free is the dangerous one. What is my motivation? And then they start to say things like, "Even, I linked to something of yours." I mean, you remember last week, don't you, Anthony, when I put that up and then you sent me thousands of dollars for it. You remember that, don't you? >> No. But they're saying, "Oh, you're linking to a friend's channel, so you must be getting a kickback from them." So, I'm trying to argue the fact that Mary Ruddic, who I posted about, Anthony Chaffy, they are not paying me to do anything. This is not what's going on here. Anyway, this woman eventually I said, "Look, I've become friends with even vegans who have who have sent me death threats on a YouTube channel when their health has failed and I've chatted to them." So then I got this one. You know, we could never be friends. You're a liar and to lie about your own health in order to ingratiate yourself to a private group that you probably consider weak and desperate for your brilliant answers is despicable. You recovered from RA. It saved you from surgery on major joints and cured 30 more. Nope. The only reason you're still here is because there is no admin to kick you out. No death threats here. Although I can certainly understand why you've received them. Yes, I'm leaving the group simply so that I never have to see your now patronizing comments ever again. And you're certainly no gentleman. It's amazing, isn't it? And that, you know, you have to have the answer for these people. But here's the thing. I think that they have they have have been sick for so long it's very difficult to let it go. Imagine thinking one day that that guy in the white coat charging you 5,000 a month was actually wrong about everything. It's too much to comprehend for some of them you know and I said you know this is one time I got a little bit wound up and I just said cuz that blew me away and I said let me just say this and I don't say this lightly. I swear on the lives of my beautiful, healthy carnivore children who you can see in my profile pick. I've never lied about anything in this group. Not one single thing. If somebody said that to me, I'd say, "Hold on a minute. Maybe, you know, maybe." No, it she just went And I thought somebody would say that about their kids to go on a group and not sell sell anything at all. >> That's a big there. But I mean, Facebook groups, honestly, I if anybody listening to this has somebody who is on a Facebook group, one of these Facebook groups, please get them off them. They're being brainwashed into the fact that they're never going to um they're never going to recover. But then it's very rewarding because occasionally you get something great. >> Mhm. >> Somebody put this underneath. I was getting fed up with these attacks. Then somebody put this underneath. I've only been on your diet. I mean, I know it's not my diet or anyone's diet, but he said, >> "I've only been on your diet." Yeah. For five days. I have an autoimmune disease. Was suffering depression. My skin was bad, dry, flaky, sore. Couldn't move my joints, arms, hands, shoulders. It was so awful. Quite frankly, I didn't see any point in being here anymore. What was the point? Anyway, I started your diet and I'm on day five and you've changed my life. My skin is already looking and feeling better. pain has pretty much gone just in 5 days. I feel happier, stronger, more alert, and I'm out of my bed. First time in 10 months, and I've lost 8 pound. I've dieted my whole life and never had the results I'm getting now in such a short space of time. Hopefully, I'll continue to get better. And thank you. You're a true angel. >> Wow. >> Isn't that lovely? >> That's just so beautiful to have that. >> Yeah. >> It's really good. >> And it it was just lovely amongst all that. I did get people messaging me. I did send them free courses. I did send them free books and stuff, >> but to have that that amount of attack, >> but then I loved that. So, I posted it on my Facebook page. >> And then one of the vegan horde came along underneath about that one time >> this one. I did send it to you and maybe I have to bleep out some of this, but I I've got to I've got to read this out because some people say, "Well, vegans are lovely and they don't know what's the matter with their minds." And we don't vegan bash you or I. It's we feel for these people very very much. >> I'd love you know bashing Greor and stuff. That beautiful meme that our friend did with you strangling Greor. That was beautiful. But yeah, these people have a a serious problem. I have a problem with them. But the vegans who are taken in by it, no problem at all. We just care for them. And so I was saying to this guy, you know, it's just calm down. It's lovely. because he said, "Oh, you dirty, you know, meat eater or something." And then he came back. He said to me, "Uh, you're so full of you disgusting corpse eating ghoul. >> I've been vegan for 40 years, you idiot. And I'm a lot healthier than you, I bet. Go suck Joe Rogan's You knuckle drag caveman cosplaying douchebag. Everything about you diss guts the out of me. You primitive-minded corpse munchers are destined for extinction. And I hope you bleed from your constipated cancer laden ass. You ignorant meat loser. >> Jesus. >> Astonishing. Later on in a message, he said he hopes I die soon. And all of that. I mean, I just had to reply to him. >> Sorry. In a later message. >> Yeah. Sorry. >> He did what in a later message. >> Oh, he said, "Yeah, I hope you die soon." >> Oh, good. >> Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. And anyway, he said, I said to him, I absolutely laughed out loud at that and I can't thank you enough. That's probably the best example of vegan compassion I've ever seen. I've seen a lot. >> It just shows what 40 years practice can do. >> Mhm. >> But this is it's amazing that it gets people that angry, isn't it? I mean, you know that it is quite a severe one, but I've had quite a few of those. And you just go, it just the first couple you get when you get a death threat, you think, "Oh my god, that's a bit weird." But it's been years now. And so they're just funny. Do you remember when Sean Baker, you know, Sean, he used to do on on his early videos, he used to say, "There's a um a prize for the best vegan death threat in the comments." >> Oh, wow. No, I didn't. >> He used to say that in his early videos. >> But I mean that I have compassion for this dude totally. And and what happens with the brains there where they get that agree? It's just food for God's sake. what's going on? But yeah, very sad and and so, you know, having experienced that and I mean, I never got that aggressive as a vegan, but I did get very depressed and I get very irritable, emotional, and how many times have you seen that as well, where people say, "When I was vegan, I was so emotional, so easily upset, and now I can't believe I was like that. my emotions are calm and everything like that. You see this, right? >> Yeah. A lot. I mean, most of the people that follow me were once vegan or plant-based or or vegetarian or whatever. Mo vast majority. Vast majority. >> And that's the thing. Yeah. I have tons of time for for people that are doing that because like, you know, they're they have the same motivations that that we do. I mean, you were we were one of them, you know, was because what were your motivations? You thought you were doing the right thing. you wanted to to improve your health. You wanted to improve the planet. You wanted, you know, help protect animals. You wanted to do all these nice things and you were convinced that that was the way to do it. I' I've looked at different evidence. I came up with different conclusions and say, "Okay, I want those exact same things, but I think this is the best way to do it." And as it turns out, I was right. So you know a lot of other people who come to that I mean sometimes they have to come go the long way and they and they they but the same motivations you know and I mean it took me 38 years to come back to this you know other people taking you know getting getting on this earlier. I mean I started when I was 20 and I was amazing. It was the best 5 years of my life you know up until now as far as health is concerned health and athletic performance and I I wanted the same things. I just wanted to be healthy. I wanted to perform. I wanted to be athletic. I wanted to you know have good health and not get get sick. And um you know and and I didn't want to destroy the planet or any of these sorts of things. And so I I was able to figure out that okay well this is actually the way to do it. And other people with that same motivation um get get sucked in by all the propaganda. And it is propaganda. It's not evidence. It's propaganda. It's I've I've gone through it all at that time saying like, okay, I'm I'm seeing every everything I'm seeing is coming up carnivore. Like we should all be just eating meat. What am I missing? What are with all these PhDs and MDs and researchers who are who are saying, "No, no, no, you should never eat meat. You should only eat plants." Okay, what what are they seeing that I'm not? And it was garbage. It was either just outdated information that had been completely and thoroughly disproven um or it was just outright lies saying that humans evolved as herbivores. I mean, what kind of nonsense is that? You know, I mean, that that's just the most the most ridiculous thing. I mean, that's just just gaslighting, you know? They're like, "Oh, yeah, but we're actually are herbivores." You know, it's like, "What are you talking about?" We've never been we've never been freaking herbivores. And you I you know we we get taught that in second grade, you know, it's just like it hasn't changed. You know, it wasn't like there's some huge massive, you know, they take they cherrypick one area. Oh, there's this group in Madagascar 5,000 years ago after the agricultural revolution, of course, uh that they they they live subsisted, you know, on 80% plants or 70% 60% whatever the hell. And it's just like who cares, you know? I mean, just because you can do something and survive doesn't mean it's optimal for you. And that is not indicative of what everybody everywhere else was doing. You're talking about an isolated island away from everything and and they had to do what they had to do to survive. You know, that's the story is that humans are amazing and we're adaptable and we can survive on different things and having the capability to do that. It's allowed us to survive in very difficult places and be able to survive all over the world. That doesn't mean that that's optimal. That doesn't mean that you're not going to get sick. That doesn't mean that cyanide is not cyanide. Even if it's in an almond or cassava, you know, it's just it's cyanide. >> And so, a lot of people have, you know, do see that eventually. And a lot, like you say, a lot of these people that are just, oh, you're horrible, you're awful, all just like, I can't believe that I ever said that. Um, I most of the people that follow me are formerly of that life because it's the right mindset. you know, they're trying to be healthy and and they're trying to do the right thing. And so the motivation is there, but they just get they just get tied in. And so when they see that like, "Wow, this really isn't helping my health. This really isn't helping me." And I'm getting worse. They're like, "Damn it. All right. Maybe maybe this makes sense." And they start eating meat and go like, "I had no idea. I had no idea." And it's quick. You know, like that gentleman you talked about, 5 days and he's already changed his life. You know, that's amazing. Not everybody gets changes like that that quickly, but a lot do. And especially when you're dealing with very serious inflammatory diseases and things like that, the pain massively improves. Inflammation massively improves. And it's not to say he would been in full remission in 5 days. But, you know, having a significant improvement just to the point that he could look at this and go like, "Wow, I feel so much better. There's definitely something to this is great to see in just 5 days. It's it's amazing." Um, >> yeah, I was just I was just going to say as well, you know, that people said um that, you know, in that in that group that, oh, you're selling something even though you weren't. Um, you know, you just be like, no, you're selling $6,000 a month in drugs. You know, you're just a drug dealer. You're a drug >> I mentioned this. >> Yeah, >> I mentioned this. But, you know, who is actually the snake oil salesman here? Because they don't see they don't see reversals. You know, I mentioned it before on on your channel, but when my mom's breast cancer reversed, you know, when we did that carnivore diet, some iodine >> and the um her her oncologist uh was astonished. And I said, "Is that the first natural reversal you've seen?" And he said, "Yeah." And and and I said, "Yeah, I'm a drummer and I've seen quite a few." >> So Peter's popped up here and and this is kind of relevant actually. >> Mhm. But this is something that was interesting where I was reading your chapter and it reminded me I said to Peter get get him on actually because what why is I've noticed um in my own symptoms and with um people who I've worked with that the worst thing is the fibrous stuff when we're taught that that is the healthy kind of carbohydrates. But Peter here, I mean, he was breastfed and then when he was weaned, he had nothing but meat for a couple of years. >> Uh, but he he still had uh some eczema. >> Mhm. >> Which has cleared up. Um, and now, well, first of all, when he first went to school, you know, you put a little bit of fruit, like a peeled apple or something in the lunch box so the dinner ladies didn't call the police cuz it was just meat. And if he ate even a corner of an apple, a quarter of a peeled apple, he would have like weeping eczema on his on his cheeks by the time he came home from school that quick. >> Whereas when he discovered chocolate, it wouldn't happen. And now he's still like 90% carnivore. But when it was proved the other day, but he's >> not the 10% chocolate or >> No, no, it's a 10%. It's like 5% chocolate. Well, probably 10% chocolate, like 2% fries or something like that if he goes out. or his mom's been bringing home some crisps recently, which you called chips out there, I think. But >> and he eats those and then he get and then he gets asthma >> straight away, didn't you? I mean, they called him up called us up from school the other day >> and absolutely fine if you stay carnivore. >> But this was this was something interesting as well because I I found that I could eat, you know, some crap like chocolate or something. It didn't really hurt me. But um if I had something with some with some uh fiber in it, it was much quicker. It wasn't it. So what what what goes on with you? You just get like short breath and stuff, don't you? But then if you don't eat the the crisps for a couple of days, it um it it it goes away, right? Yeah. There you go. So there's absolute useless anecdote, living proof. >> Hey guys, just want to take a second to thank our sponsor at Carnivore Bar. I don't promote many products because honestly all you need to be healthy is to just eat meat. But for those times that you're out hiking, road tripping, or stuck at work and you want nutritious snack that is just meat, fat, and salt if you want it, the Carnivore Bar is a great option. So I like this product not because it's just pure meat, but also because I want the carnivore market to thrive as well. And the more we support meatonly products, the more meatonly products there will be available in the mainstream. So, if this sounds like something you'd like to get behind, check it out using my discount code Anthony to get 10% off, which also applies to subscriptions, giving you 25% off total. All right, thanks, guys. But, you know, um, with that, the the um, what was I going to say? The it was something. Yes. Yes. Yes. Of course. Now, he was cesarian and so was my daughter Amelia. We got conned into it. I don't think they needed to be, but you do get conned into it quite often these days. >> Yeah. >> And Mary Ruddic in Spain um last time she she did the most amazing talk. I think Mary's really quite fascinating about the microbiome. Now, most people I think who say they understand the microbiome don't at all. It's it's just too complicated. But she's got some really interesting theories about the birth microbes that you miss out on, you know, not being seeded with those initial microbes when you come down the birth canal if you get if you were a cesarian. It's uh you can be a bit sensitive and I can see that in my kids and I was cesarian as well, you know, 1962 and I I wonder how um how much that affected it. But I'm going to release that in the next couple of days. So, if anybody's watching this, have a look at my channel and have a look at Mary talking about this because I think it's quite fascinating. Now, I'm real happy to eat beef, lamb, salt, and water. I love it. I love the rebellious nature of it. I love the fact that our species appropriate diet has become something rebellious now. It's crazy, isn't it? But I love it. So, I I have no problem with it. But for people who do want to reintroduce things, certain seasonal things, it's like I don't think we ever needed the fruit or the nuts that we ate seasonally. But >> if we even ate them. >> Yeah. If we ate them, which I often >> as a quick as a quick tangent, sorry to interrupt, but I I I fully disagree with the idea that oh, if we saw seeds and nuts, we totally eat them. We see seeds and nuts all the time. We never touch them. >> You know, like most of them are most of them are inedible. Um the the thing is is that we have documentation. There's like there's just an assumption. Someone said, "Oh, I like seeds and nuts, so if I saw them, I'd eat them." It's like you wouldn't even know what the hell they were, you know? The only reason you know where they are is because they're in a store. You know, the the thing is is that we have documentation going back hundreds of years. You know, the early settlers in New England, uh they I I read this when I was in grade school. Um that the Native Americans in what's now, you know, southern Canada and, you know, sort of northeast US. Uh this is during the Little Ice Age where it was just like just snow on the ground most of the year. And one of the settlers was was writing how he's just marveling about how the Native Americans in that area never ate any plants ever, no matter what. And they said, you know, I would understand this, you know, for 9 months out of the year when there's snow and ice on the ground and nothing's growing, like sure, but for 3 months out of the year, surely they could live off the bounty of the land. But they don't they don't eat anything except meat year round. So I I push back on that. I it it's not the case that anytime fruits and veget fruits and nuts were around oh but it would have been seen they they did not touch that stuff outside of certain specific areas and that was typically for survival means or maybe even preference like oh it kind of tastes a bit sweet but you know a lot of the stuff didn't taste all that sweet and orange then was not an orange now you know mango then was not a mango now they didn't taste good they weren't tree candy back then either Hey, there are documented evidence going back hundreds of years saying they did not eat them. And so, you know, I I think that that's just complete and utter garbage. People try to say that, well, we would have eaten it this, that, and the other. Okay, you're not going to store up a year's worth of vitamin C >> in in two weeks. You know, like you get on a traditional diet, if you get don't get enough vitamin C, you're you're dead of scurvy in 3 months, >> right? So, that's that's not going to last. Oh, they would have preserved it. Like, you're just making up now. What? like what evidence do you have? You know, what what what jam jars and preserves did they have during the winter that you know of? You know, it's just they just make things up. But the actual historical record said they don't eat anything at other than meat at any point during the year, at least in that area. And so, you know, I I just I really I really um hate when people just like just say these things based on no evidence either being asked for or provided. And so I started asking I was like you know based on what you know where are you getting that from that everybody would have oh well they just would have yeah that's not that's not >> that's not an answer and that's not evidence >> and so I just you know I don't buy it and because I've I've seen evidence to the contrary and when you were more northern what's now Canada especially during the little ice age there was never thaw there were no thaws and there were no berries and there was no fruit and there was no honey. Not too many honey bees in the Arctic Circle, you know. >> Yeah. Well, they always say, don't they, that, you know, the Inuit only survived. Yes. Because they ate some berries in the in in the spring when whenever it was and and you look at it even if they were there. You have records now where they say no, most of them ignored them anyway, you know. But the point the point I was I was making really was that you know some people stay healthy on with some of these plant foods in >> Mhm. >> Now why do they do that and you wrote about it in the chapter that I just read this morning and you know there are certain >> people don't know this is this is my the book I'm writing I have a I have a a chapter on autoimmunity called rethinking autoimmunity where it's argue it's not actually an autoimmune disease. It's not the body attacking itself because the body's incapable of attacking itself and and so what is actually happening what the evidence for that is and actually quite a lot of evidence showing that this is this is not uh autoimmune in nature and so it's sort of a bit of a paradigm shift on how we think about this sort of disease. So that's the the refer. >> Yeah. So no it's it's it's absolutely brilliant. is brilliantly explained >> and I think that um there there are certain people who stay healthy despite plants never because of them. Now why is that? There's certain um certain things that uh you know various different influences that might contribute to that whether it's environmental, spiritual, genetic, you know what, whatever emotional issues. Um, but I I think Mary's got an interesting thing recently where she's been experimenting and reintroducing things with no ill effects and she puts it down to reeding with these um birth microbes >> that are not it doesn't mean to say you can come back to eating plants because plants are so great for us, but it is it maybe adds a layer of protection against these things >> and and what she's saying is pretty interesting. So when when that talk goes up, if anyone's watching this, it'll probably be up by by the time this comes out. But have a look at her talk. And she's always so fascinating. She's always just got these great tales of her her travels, you know, around these indigenous tribes and and she's she's just lovely. But um yeah, to me I think that um what worries me as well about here's another subject really about these carnivores recently who are adding a load of carbohydrates back in and you know I saw you do an episode with Ken with Kenberry about this and it was just spot on. But I think what really worries me about that because I don't care what people eat. People should do exactly what they want, right? But what worries me is the doubt that it sws in in the minds of people who really need to go strict be flam salt and water because the people I consult with, the people who are my focus are the people who are in as much crippling agony as I was. You know, it's suicidal pain. It's horrific. And when they get told that, oh yeah, it's fine to eat this stuff and you need carbohydrates for thyroid function and all this kind of nonsense. When you get told that, it it really sews seeds of doubt and it could you you could ruin somebody's life for another 2 three years or maybe permanently with that kind of information. And so I'm not dogmatic. It's not dogmatic at all. People should do exactly what they want. But if you really want to heal, you know, it's like Zophia was saying to me, they get 100% success with 100% strictness, you know. >> Yeah. >> If they do that, they and I see this again and again and and when you see people saying, I tried the carnivore diet, didn't work. I had this a lot in that group as well, where people come along and they say, oh, I added red meat and I flared up. That's the worst thing. So they probably put a little bit of something with their rice and pasta >> and then by the time they their microbiome and their gut permeability is so damaged that by that time, yes, you add some meat, it might cause some problems. It's not about adding more meat. It's about taking away all the rest of the crap and that's where the magic starts. And then as you mentioned in that chapter, then you've got the building blocks, the bioavailable building blocks to then rebuild because taking the plant toxins away will stop the inflammation, but then you've got to rebuild as well. So, which is why, you know, fasting is not such a great idea long term because you get rid of the inflammation. And I did I remember back in the tail end of my plant-based days where I was trying to fix the inflammation. I'd do these long fasts and the inflammation would go. It's great. Suddenly, I'm running around again. No pain whatsoever. But during that time, I lost all the muscle mass pretty much that I had when I was, you know, cuz I used to run a gym in the late ' 90s. And I ended up really scrawny and emaciated with periods of of of of restbite from inflammation because I was fasting. And it wasn't until I learned how to eat properly that then I could actually eat and not have the inflammation at the same time. And so, you know, I I I just want to save people from what I've been through really because it took me a long time to actually come around to it. And by the end, I was, you know, a really good highfat keto diet with some healthy veg and still it wasn't quite going. And during that time, because of the the time that the inflammation went on for, you know, I've lost a knee pretty much. I've lost a wrist. And I would like to see people heal quicker than that, you know, and to come onto this diet much quicker so that they don't have that kind of damage. And then we always get asked, don't we, how long does it take? How long before you see results? Well, it completely depends obviously on how strict you are. It depends on how long you've been you've you've had that condition. And it also depends on how long you've been on those meds that shut down the inflammatory pathways. Ruin what is actually what the body is supposed to be doing. I remember when Natasha C McBride was on my podcast, she said there's no such thing as bad inflammation, which is exactly what you said in that chapter really. It's what's going on and then there's collateral damage around it. But let's get that inflammation down as quickly as possible before you end up with a left knee like mine. Please, guys. You know, >> there's like 30 odd joints that I got it out of that it was in with no damage. It's fine. But there's two that were hit hard. And like, why is that? You've got some great um theories in that in in that chapter. But also, I would add to that the amount of times I've worked with people and you look at the emotional issues, the the the stresses they have in certain areas, and it's connected with certain parts of the body. I've seen this too many times now for it to be woowoo and that maybe stops the body from clearing out toxins in a certain area. There's it's like a sort of map of the emotions. I have this thing that um it's a a a good gut integrity protects you against your emotional imbalances and traumas and things like that. There's a book called um the secret language of your body by inner seagull and the times I've looked at it when I've I've done consults with people and they've had certain joints affected and or certain organs affected and you look at it the emotional issues around it and they're going wow that's me and I wonder you know I don't have any proof but I've seen it enough times the useless anecdotes to to suggest that that this is what's going on doesn't change the fact that we should be on a highfat species appropriate diet. But I noticed it in me when I got really got onto this. It must it was 2013 when we moved into this house we're in now. Yeah. So that would be 2013. I've been looking after my mom for 10 years. We were in the same house. It was just getting too much. Sometimes it's kind of too much, you know. And so I said, "Right, I'll still look after you, but we'll move you into a little apartment. we'll take this other smaller house and uh than we had with her. And at the time my ankles were so painful with seriatic arthritis that it was like broken glass in them. You know, it's sometimes >> I just have to crawl. >> The knees are damaged. My my ankles are are not damaged, but the pain when it was in there because there's so much weight on the ankles and you can't, you know, you can kind of walk around stiff-legged and take the pain out the knee, but you can't really avoid ankles when you're walking. Horrible. Now, when I moved in here, that cleared up within two weeks. No change of diet and it was still in other joints and it's never come back since in those ankles. Now, why did that happen? When you look up the emotional connection with ankles, it's try to look for something that look for something that you're trying not to run away from. And I felt kind of guilty moving out from my mom and not looking after after my dad died or well the NHS killed him really in 2003. I wish we'd known you then because he had a brain tumor that was perfectly operable >> and they said no no it's just a viral infection. gave him a whole load of drugs that within a month blew up his heart and there was nothing there was nothing in his in in his uh um nothing wrong with his heart and he eventually his heart blew up and and they did that to him in there and I said to them when I took him in I didn't know anything what I know now this was 2003 but I took I took him in there and I said right he's losing the sight out of one side of his eye and he's had his eyes looked at and he's had cataracts done which he didn't really any doing if it were any mild. But he can't see out of this side. There's just like nothing. He says it's got to be something in the brain. Oh, no, no, no. It's just this. It's just that. So, you know, they get that arrogant thing. What the hell do you know? It's bloody obvious to me that it's either the eye or it's the brain. If you if you're losing sight, it's pretty not too many other options. Yeah. >> Yeah. Exactly. It took them about two weeks to finally do a scan and they said, "Actually, we found a mass in the brain after they had him on drugs and he was losing his mind in there and and they called me side and they said, "Yeah, yeah, we found a mass." And I said, "Is it in the sight?" And yes, yes, how did you know? Cuz it's King obvious. It was obvious to me when I brought him in. But anyway, so they blew his heart up and and and and so I looked after my mom. >> Very difficult. It is very very difficult you know to to do that constantly. And so that was the root I think of the ankle thing which absolutely fascinates me. You know people listening to this can kind of believe it or not cuz it does sound a bit woo but I think that everything comes everything in life you know even when you start a project you have an idea and then you manifest it and things come from the subtle to the gross. and that kind of sort of energy medicine and the the German new medicine that is is showing amazing results with just, you know, putting everything down to trauma, but they don't cover it all. They don't do the diet as well. And if anybody just did that whole highfat carnivore thing, all these other things work better. >> But, um, yeah, I just think medicine is is is just totally on the wrong track with the with the with the autoimmunity. More difficult to make people believe it. At least people are starting to wake up a bit about the diabetes thing. But um it was funny also on the uh on that Facebook group there were people saying, "Yeah, now the food pyramid's been turned upside down and RFK is trying to kill people and you know and and and why don't you just run off with RFK and and he's like, look, have you actually looked after >> I'd love to. He's he seems lovely and he has big strong arms, you know." Yeah. I mean, obviously anybody would be lovely. This is the thing. I said I said, "Look, you know, I I don't agree with everything he's done or the food pyramid has not gone far enough in my opinion, but it's a step in the right direction." >> Yeah. >> And it's upside down. And And now I said to them, "Well, >> sideways." >> Yeah. Should just be meat >> right there at the top. >> Yeah. Exactly. And I said, "Look, you you're trying to criticize him and say he's killing people. Have you googled a picture of him with his top off? He's 70 years old. He's ripped. He looks great. Who are you going to listen to? Him or his predecessor who was a fat transsexual. And you're like, I mean, there's something really going wrong there with somebody with those emotional issues going into the an office like that. Totally unhealthy. and some of the some of the the the you know the the the people in those positions around the world. I mean, we've seen we've all seen the memes with these monstrous people who are, you know, health ministers and stuff. >> And so, surely just to even look at RFK, maybe you might get an idea that he knows what he's talking about. But no, he's trying to kill people by taking, you know, telling people they could have >> so many times, you know, they they're saying, "Yes, but the problem is maybe it stopped your symptoms, but I can't do that cuz I've got heart disease in my family and I can't possibly eat fatty red meat because then I'll have a heart attack as well." >> And the layers and layers of it. And this is I've been ranting about this quite a bit during this chat because I haven't looked into them for a while. I've just kind of minded my own business, but tens of thousands of people in that group suffering unnecessarily and my heart goes out to them. And then it did occur to me because it didn't when I went in there selling stuff and then I thought if I sold my course to everybody in that group, I'd have a million dollars >> and nobody would be dissatisfied. And I think you know rheumatologists have all of these um and that's at half price >> which I sell it for and and you know I I live near a a hospital of rheumatology hospital of excellence you know and you walk in there and you smell the toasted sandwiches in the cafeteria and stuff first thing you smell and I see the car park rammed. I see Ken my friend who we talked about you know where they would wait till your toes are black and we'll cut them off. He can't get an appointment. you know, these people are flocking in to this, you know, the the white coat scenario and and and it's amazing to me when when um the difference when doctors are open-minded. I mean, I get a real lump in my throat sometimes. You know, when you sent me that email and said, "Would you like to come on my carnivore school and talk about autoimmunity?" I mean, how many docs would ever do that? I'm just an absolute lunatic and a dangerous quack. But you realize that when you've been through it, the unique thing I've got is is having been through it and having having um made every mistake under the sun and also work with hundreds of clients now over the past 10 years and just seen it reversed so many times. Has a rheatologist ever seen it reversed? >> No. >> I don't think so. >> No, >> I don't think so. >> No. Yeah. That's the thing. you know, you see all the all the cars there, everything's backed up and you wait times of years to get in to see a specialist and you >> you're in the death and dismemberment business and business is good, you know, and that's what that says. So I want to I want to change things so that business is bad and that we have a lot more doctors with a lot more time on their hands and um you know I mean great maybe maybe take a day off get a vacation go to Tahiti you know but um >> yeah maybe even do maybe maybe even do a little a little bit of research beyond med school e beyond the med school. Well, you know, I I thankfully always had, you know, I guess, you know, an open mind and and, you know, many people do, but it's not it's unfortunately the case that we get trained to think a certain way. We get trained to regurgitate information. It's like, here's the information. You need to store it. You need to take it on this test. And you just have to do that. I just got to pass the test, pass the test, pass the test, pass the test, pass the test. You do it for 12 years and you go to college. It's like, I just got to pass the test, pass the test, pass the test. So, I just got to regurgitate information, take things in and repeat it out. And then you go to medical school and it's the same thing. You go to residency and the same thing. You're just trying to you're passing tests until you're in your freaking 30s. And it's just like, oh, thank God. And, oh, I don't have to do and then but but that's your mind now. Your mind is just like everything is just like, I I read it here, so it has to be here. And they don't they don't get that it may not have been accurate. I thankfully had a healthy level of cynicism when I was young and I just didn't believe half the things that I was told growing up. I'm like that doesn't sound right. That's kind of that sounds like And in school as well, I mean, I had some some teachers probably luckily that just said the most outlandish things that I've ever heard in my life. Like to this day, I had a I had a teacher um I won't I won't say her name, but you know, she's a nice lady, but she's out there in in this the sort of things I'm about to tell you. You know, saying that that um she just really misunderstood what an ectopic pregnancy is where the the embryo can implant, you know, some elsewhere in the abdomen, not in the in the uterus. and uh not realizing that this is a life-threatening emergency and you can die. Uh and that it is it is not able to come to term and you wouldn't have you know you're not it's not getting into the you know doesn't have wouldn't have the the the subsistence and the and the nourishment things like that unless it was in the uterus anyway. But she started telling us that that um you know embryos could just implant anywhere and oh yeah they can just implant anywhere and you can just yeah you just have an have a C-section. You just have a cesarian and you know that's what they were invented for at first and you just open up and just get the baby out from wherever in the guts they are. And I mean like babies move they move and they kick. You know you're just pulling on arteries and intestines and things like that. and and she said, "Oh, yeah." And they can implant in the intestines and they could just have um you know, and then it would develop in the intestine and then you could uh and then you would deliver the baby um um anally. And it was just like what? >> No. >> Was just like you're saying this person didn't defecate for 9 months, you know, because that's what you're saying, you know, there's a two there's only one of them. It's not like there's a bypass anywhere. And um and you you're >> this was a professional this >> well it was high school teacher you know but in in in like a top school district it was like it was a good school district you know but but the school district you know rankings were not based on her education. I'll tell you that. >> And um but yeah and so saying that and she even said that the embryo could actually track back up the man's urethra and go back into him and that men could give birth. obviously never took anatomy because like the the male urethra is not connected to the abdomen, right? And so like but she that it would actually get into the abdomen and and then men could deliver the baby by cesarian as well. And she said, "Oh yes, you know, men been giving birth by cesarian and this that and the other." And I'm like, "What?" And um and I I realized where this came from. There's a show, there's a British show called Red Dwarf. I'm sure you're familiar with it. Mhm. >> And um and you we used to get it in in America was they would show it on like PBS and things like that from the BBC and there was an episode where they went to like Mirror Mirror World and it was like the opposite land and like men gave had babies and you know women did whatever and uh and then you know the main character was a was a man in you know this universe and went and had sex with himself the female version of himself in the other universe but then he got pregnant and um you know they were trying to convince him like they're like a pregnancy test and they're like, "Yeah, it's just like, well, this this is stupid. I don't even know why we're doing this." Like, I mean, I can't get pregnant. I don't have the I don't have the equipment, you know? I mean, what's going on? And and you know, the other guy said, "Well, no, you know, I mean, you know, male, you know, that that's not, you know, this certainly lines up. You know, this can happen. You know, male baboons have been giving births since the 20th century, something like that." And she said, "Oh, yeah, male baboons have been known to give birth and this, that, and the other." And I'm like, she watched Red Dwarf and she thought that was real life. Right. And so it's like these are the people teaching your kids and us and then and then you know how many how many things did did we learn growing up that were just completely made up and just pulled out of nowhere or or red dwarf and um and so I you know I saw these things I'm like this is just so stupid. So I went into my education took everything with a grain of salt. Everything with a grain of salt. And so, you know, in medical school, I, you know, go back through my notes and I I look at these things and like, you know, I don't necessarily remember all the lectures, but I but I'm I'm sure that those are my notes because I have all these like snarky comments going, "Well, this is total and this isn't true and this can't be possible and XY, you know, these things here and here and that's total crap and I it's just like and I had something like remember this for the test but also remember it's you know, and uh like things like that." and also thankfully had a had a professor that was really on the ball and told us in our first few months that by the time we graduated medical school everything we have learned in medical school will be obsolete. >> Yeah. >> And that you have to stay current. You have to stay on top of it because you will get left behind. Once you're left behind you're not catching up. And so you have to be diligent about continuing your education out of medical school. And um and and so I you know I did. Then when I sort of started doing some self uh you know research myself when I started coming across carnivore I I just didn't realize there was this huge body of information and studies that I've just never been even introduced to and there's thousands of randomized control trials on ketogenic diets alone and how beneficial they are and head-to-head competition with vegetarian high carb low-fat DASH diet Mediterranean diets all these different sorts of things for specific medical outcomes with discrete endpoints and and they always do better. It always does better. And a carnivore diet is a ketogenic diet, you know. And my >> Sorry. >> Yeah. Have you seen Have you seen Zoe Harkham's page, you know, with with all the >> Oh, yeah. It's great. >> You know, the fantastic collection of studies >> questioning modern dietary advice. You send that to people either, you know, vegans or or or in those those groups and they go, "Oh, you just sent me to a website." No. Can you see the blue bit where you click and you can actually go and see the study? No, you've just said I don't I don't get my scientific evidence from websites and YouTube channel. For me, my heart has gone out so much this past couple of weeks, three weeks. And that's that's why I kind of asked to come back on, you know, because it was uh >> it was me that pestered Anthony, you know. I'm always pestering Anthony. >> Pestering him to come on the show. pestering him to come to Spain. >> pestering him to come to Spain. >> So, yeah, I just, you know, I'd love to I'd love to see some of these people, more of these people just wake up in these groups and go, you know what, because they are they do seem to be in the diabetes groups now, but in the autoimmunity groups, nah, that's too complicated. You can't fix that. >> Yeah. >> And so, to, you know, to get this out to more people is wonderful. And it just, you know, reading your chapter, it was fantastic, you know, if if people can really understand that. Wow. We're getting we're getting somewhere. >> Yeah. Well, I might I might publish it in the in the autoimmune paper that we're coming out with or at least, you know, information from that. And um and I might I think about just publishing it as a paper and see, >> you know, have it part of my book, but also have it as as a paper as well because I think it would be um interesting to get that out and to to to sort of see see how people receive that. Um I was going to say too um I you know as far as these Facebook groups are concerned. I think that that a lot of people you know people ask me you know what how can I help and this that and the other and one of the things I always say to them is that you know go be active in these Facebook groups go be active in these different online groups and tell them what experience you're getting. And I think that I need to be more specific and say go to the non-carivore groups about you about what you're dealing with and tell them and just be like, "Look, this is, you know, this you guys need to know about this because that's that's where people need to hear it." You know, you're preaching in the choir other places, but they need to hear this stuff and they need and it's not just one person like you were just sort of out there as a lone wolf saying this and a couple people said, "Hey, actually, I tried it." But, you know, there are 50 people in there going, "No, this is real. This works. I've done this." you know, he's right. Um, people are going to start paying attention and they're going to start actually doing this. So I have a bit of a call to action. People watching this, if you are afflicted with something and you've reversed it and you've cured it, autoimmunity, diabetes, whatever, go to those groups and especially the mainstream groups where they're they're not talking about using a carnivore diet or ketogenic diet or anything like that and tell them, hey, this worked for me and this seems to be what the evidence diabetes especially. I mean, there's there's control trials showing that that works for type 2 diabetes. So like why wouldn't you try that? But if we have enough people go out into these groups and you know weather the storm is you're going to get people thrashing at you and so you have to sort of be built for that and just you know let it roll off your back and if that's not you then you know just mind your business that's fine. Um, but for people that that do feel up to that, um, you know, get in there because that's really going to help people. And if you get enough people going in there, um, you know, we get hundreds of people, thousands of people because there there are I mean, there's hundreds of thousands, millions of people that have reversed irreversible diseases now. I mean, we see it all the time. And if you get enough of those people going into the mainstream groups going like, "Hey guys, no, this this is it now. You you just have to pay attention." and we get a concerted effort going in there to try to turn that tide and be like, "Nope, this is true." If you have every person going, "You're crazy, you're horrible, you're selling stuff." >> Yeah. I mean, maybe you'll get a couple people going, "Who cares? Might as well try it." You know? >> Yeah. Yeah. You do. >> If you get 50 people below that going, "This is totally true. I've done that. It works." And 50 people that say, "Oh, this is crazy. This is this." And other people saying, "No, that's not true. This works. I've seen it. My mom did it. I did it. You know, he's not wrong. You know, I'm in another Facebook group with 20,000 people who have all done it. You know, all these other sorts of things. You have some support and backup. Then people are going to go like, "Whoa, hold on a second. What's going on?" You know, this guy seems like a crazy person, but there's there's hundred people that all agree with him. Maybe there's something. I think that's an absolutely fantastic point and I you know if anybody's listening to this who has reversed RA or seratic arthritis or something this particular group is called just simply I think it's rheumatoid arthritis support group and you'll recognize it because it's got about 90,000 in. And I think honestly listen to Anthony there and please come and back me up. I put so much effort into that one. That's a fantastic idea because in within that group I've said why don't you go to a carnival group? go and go in there, search rheumatoid arthritis, see how many people are healing. Go to the the the videos, go to Anony's videos where you get a lot of um engagement underneath in the comments. You can see so many people who have healed this, >> you know, and so many other things. Go and do that, but they won't do it. But this is a far better idea that Anony's just had here. So, anyone who's listening to this, get into that specific group and help these poor people out because it's driving me mad. >> Okay. Yeah. Well, um, thank you so much, Phil. It's been, it's always good to see you and, um, >> you, too. >> Um, one thing I was going to say was, um, oh, well, I was going to ask you too, like, you know, you you've worked with a lot of people. You have all these these groups and this is why I asked you to be part of my my other group, you know, to help people with autoimmunity. You've lived it. You've done it. And you've also worked with so many people with this. you've sort of seen this and you understand like just how strict you need to be and and just you know how um how to sort of go through this and what to expect and so um you know how can people find those resources? How can they get in touch with you if they need further sort of one-on-one support? >> Cool. Thank you. Well, yeah, I do um one-on-one consults. Absolutely. Always happy to do those. >> Um I also have this 30 video online course called autoimmunity. the subtraction method and it goes through everything from getting confidence to um to all through diet and all the light stuff dutyium. There's stuff on everything in there including all the emotional and spiritual stuff at the end. I don't think anybody's actually put an autoimmunity course together like that. But it's it's really angled towards rheumatoid and seriatic arthritis. So, you know, if um if you go to philcart.com, you can find both of those. And um and and also for this, if you use a code RA50, you can get that course for 50% off. >> And I'm doing that for a while. Um, I I would I I just wish that could go out to people because I think there's pretty much everything in there, but also then links to tons of other stuff, including some of Anony's stuff, Sophia's stuff, all all the great links to to get absolute confidence that this is the this is the way to go. Um, and I also have a Substack. Um, you can find that link at phasescot.com as well. and I do weekly calls and I was doing it just for paid subscribers, but seriously, I've I've had it. I just want I want people to to to I just want to help as many people as possible. So, my calls are now free at 6:00 UK time um every Sunday for an hour or two and um uh just come along and ask any questions you want. And we, you know, it's it's all pretty light-hearted as well. I'm never that serious, you know. I can I I never quite grew up. >> And and also if anybody is is listening, come to our events this year. We've got this wonderful one that we do in Spain that Anony's been to and I'm hoping to drag him along again and it's in it's in Spain in November and Zophia Clemens is there and Richard Smith and all sorts of other wonderful speakers. We've got we had um Stephanie Rimker and um we had uh Mary Rick last time and Dr. ABS who is absolutely brilliant and you know so young so knowledgeable his talks absolutely blew people's minds. He asked to do two actually cuz he couldn't fit it into one. But utterly brilliant but also hilarious. And we had a load of pranks there and it was a load of fun. And there's some stuff on my YouTube channel with the pranks of >> making AB sound like a chipmunk as soon as he started his talk and stuff. But there was loads of nonsense. And Abs, what's grown out of that as well, Abs and I do um an episode of nutrition news on both our channels once a month. And that that does get a bit crazy because, you know, although we answer questions and we do do some serious stuff, it it it there's some proper nonsense in there as well. >> And if you're in of a uh sensitive disposition, you know, we we talk some proper crap. So, >> um but also our UK event, please come along to that. It's uh it's in August. It's in Rainford in Mercyside. And it's uh it's camping, glamping, you can stay in a hotels nearby. It's um everything from great talks to um to live music. I love playing with bands there and get other musicians in. Firew walking, cold thermogenesis, all kinds of stuff going on. But um great I I can't believe we got Zophia as well for that one. So Zophia Clemens were coming over to England as well. And if you're autoimmune and you're in England, come along to that cuz it's much lower ticket. is really affordable and come and hang out with Zophia Clemens with um the Unwins um David and Jen Unwin as well. They're coming along. They came along last year and they're absolutely lovely. Everybody wants um David Unwin as their GP, don't they? He's so sweet. He's been on your show as well, isn't he? >> Yeah, Unwin's great. Yeah. >> Really, really cool. And um anyway, so there we go. The events, courses, um consults, you'll find them all through philcot.com. But um yes, it's carnivorespain.com for the Spanish one and ancestralhealthfestestival.com for the English one. But hopefully Anthony might bunk some links underneath and I'll send them to you. >> Yeah, definitely. >> Anthony, thank you so much. Nice to go off some little diversions there in that chat. It's always fun chatting to you. >> Always, man. Well, it's good to see you. Please do everyone go and check out Phil's uh Phil's work. if you do need help with autoimmunity. I mean, he's he's been doing this for 10 years or more than 10 years and has has lived it and has helped people with it. And just remember, you know, his his his course may be geared towards people with rheumatoid arthritis and seroriatic arthritis, but the same principles apply to every single autoimmune issue that I've ever seen. And so, if you just you just follow those principles, just don't eat anything except red meat and water and and um you know, and a couple caveats, but that's pretty much it. But if you if you do the same things, autoimmune issues react generally the same way uh whether it's rheumatoid arthritis or not. And so if you have something else and you need a bit of help, you know, then then those are good resources to go to as well. So Phil, thank you so much. I really appreciate it and we'll see you next time. >> Thank you. Thanks, Anthony. >> Thanks. 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