In this solo analysis episode, Dr. Anthony Chaffee provides a detailed rebuttal to points made by the vegan team in a recent carnivore versus vegan debate. He systematically addresses claims about cardiovascular disease prevention, cholesterol's role in health, and dietary biomarkers. Dr. Anthony Chaffee challenges the fundamental assumption that LDL cholesterol causes heart disease, citing recent meta-analyses from 2021 showing saturated fat is protective against stroke and cardiovascular disease.
The episode reveals how the sugar industry paid Harvard professors in the 1960s to falsify data blaming cholesterol instead of sugar for heart disease, fundamentally changing dietary guidelines worldwide. Dr. Anthony Chaffee explains that when Americans reduced cholesterol intake by 30% and red meat by 33% while increasing fruits and vegetables, obesity, heart disease, and diabetes rates all tripled. He also addresses environmental sustainability claims, demonstrating how regenerative grazing with livestock actually restores soil health and prevents desertification, contrary to crop agriculture which has caused massive topsoil loss.
Key Takeaways
- LDL cholesterol does not cause heart disease according to 2021 meta-analyses published in major cardiology journals, with saturated fat showing protective effects against stroke
- The sugar industry paid three Harvard professors in the 1960s to publish fraudulent studies blaming cholesterol for heart disease when evidence pointed to sugar as the culprit
- When Americans reduced cholesterol intake by 30% and red meat by 33% starting in 1965, obesity rates tripled, heart disease tripled, and diabetes rates increased exponentially
- TMAO studies showing harm from meat consumption used mixed diets with processed foods and did not study pure carnivore populations, creating confounding variables
- Regenerative grazing with livestock restores desert ecosystems and prevents the 27.5 billion tons of topsoil loss that occurs annually from crop agriculture
- Vegan diets are undefined nutritionally since 'vegan' only means 'no meat' - a diet of Oreo cookies and alcohol is technically vegan but clearly unhealthy
- Debate Rebuttal Introduction - Carnivore vs Vegan Evidence Standards
- Carnivore Diet Studies and Indigenous Population Evidence
- Blue Zones Myth and Cholesterol-Heart Disease Connection Debunked
- Epidemiological Studies Problems and Authority Appeals
- LDL Cholesterol Research - Statins and Cardiovascular Risk
- TMAO Studies and Carnivore vs Meat-Eater Distinctions
- Weight Loss Claims and Diabetes Treatment Comparisons
- Environmental Sustainability - Agriculture vs Regenerative Grazing
This is an auto-generated transcript from YouTube and may contain errors or inaccuracies.
okay hey guys uh this is dr chafee um just wanted
to do a quick uh video just just going over some of the points that was made in the recent
carnival versus vegan debate that was held by uh acton and just do a bit of a rebuttal
on some of the points that the vegan team made um just because we didn't have a bit
as much of a back and forth um during the the debate itself so i just wanted to address
some of the points that they had as well or sort of go through them live and then sort of you
know stop and start and uh talk about things as we go okay uh i also just want to say you know
i had a really nice time with this time you know everybody involved you know you know whether or
not we agree or disagree everyone you know was coming from a very honest place you know they
they you know my impression was that everybody you know truly wanted uh what was right for people
they wanted to sort of figure out the truth and and what was the best way to help people and i
think that's the best way of doing things and i think it's very important for uh like-minded
people in that in that regard uh to come together and have these sorts of discussions and i think
that it went uh very well from that standpoint and uh everything was very uh you know collegial
which is which is the way to do it and you have to have these sorts of discussions and debates so
that you know your people hash out their ideas and and bounce them off other people that have an
opposing view and and see what comes up so uh i think that that went well from that standpoint i
just wanted to to go through uh some of those so we'll start here with uh uh first uh
gentlemen who's an amazing guest here we go uh good evening everyone and thank you for joining
and thank you pran for opening up opening up the debate i want to start off to think about why
we choose a dietary pattern we either choose it to live longer or to prevent disease and
pran gave some very interesting arguments but nowhere did i hear about any thing about the
carnivore diet preventing the most common diseases of western society or prolonging life
the major disease is now it's a quick one on that so obviously there there aren't you know robust
studies that have have specifically exclusively looked at the carnivore diet and you know what
that's going to do long term these are these are starting to come out now harvard just published
a study um there was another study that just came out you know just a couple days ago as well and
this is going to sort of get the ball rolling on those sorts of things hopefully we will get
that sort of thing the the point that people in the meat is good or carnivore camp uh are coming
for or are making is that you know there is there is data and there's information that you know it
is very clear that the the thoughts and and um uh you know notions that we've had for for decades
now are actually not true and so you know when you have a you know sort of you know something based
on a false pretense predicated on information we now know as false we have new information that
that shows that it's not that it's not accurate you have to sort of throw those those assumptions
out and you have to start over again okay and that's and that's a lot of what these arguments
are from they're quite robust actually so you know just not having you know a specific size
oh where's your rct that shows exactly what carnivore does well they're coming but there's
there's evidence that exists outside of that and a big part of that evidence is showing that
your evidence uh isn't actually accurate okay now society relate to cardiovascular disease
cardiometabolic disease and cancer and vegan and mostly plant-based diets are the only dietary
patterns that are able to achieve these goals when will you think about choosing
a dietary pattern for our health just a quick one there again
you know i addressed this in you know my my part of the debate and i went
further on my my larger discussion on my arguments what what is a vegan diet vegan just means not
meat so the only thing that makes a vegan diet is not meat so you know any vegan diet so just eat
oreo cookies and shoot heroin that that's okay that's going to reduce your cancer rate that's
going to be better than eating a steak really you know probably not so you know when when
you're talking about vegan diet like what does that even mean you know generally when people go
vegan they're being very health conscious they're thinking about this they're not eating processed
foods they're not going out to meals they're not eating drinking sodas they're not eating
things with a bunch of added sugar and so forth you're cutting out a lot of things that
that actually cause harm we know cause harm and so of course you're going to get better if you
were eating those things before and so you know that's not a that's not a controlled experiment
a controlled experience means you change one variable and you look at this group that hasn't
changed anything you change one variable and then you look at this group that's what a controlled
uh trial looks at that's not what's going on here with the vegan community they're not just changing
one thing they're changing dozens of things and then they're saying oh wow you know but
because we call it vegan vegan means no meat that's what it is well no i'm sorry you know if
you if you stop eating meat and you just eat a bunch of oreo cookies and you're drinking alcohol
and smoking cigarettes all plant-based you are not going to be doing well i'm sorry so they're
doing a lot of other things the people that have benefits are doing a lot of other things because a
lot of people don't a lot of people do eat a bunch of crap because they think that well it's vegan
therefore is good for me no of course it's not health and well-being we have to think about
outcome benefits the first thing we do is do is do no harm and i have seen plenty of
harm done by people eating a predominantly carnivore diet especially with underlying
underlying heart disease and then we have to think about choosing a dietary pattern that is
evidence for outcomes and reduced disease race when we recommend this for our patients and
ourselves and for the people around us this is what we need to look for and the evidence needs to
be consistent for the food patterns and individual foods within that particular particular patterns
and that can only be said for for a vegan diet as a preventative cardiologist
i've been on a 10 year journey to recommend sustainable dietary pattern that
allow patients to have a reduced disease rate and reduce reliance on medications to treat cardiac
cardiovascular disease and it's no surprise to see that the ex-president of the american college
of cardiology kim williams after his first heart attack decided to become vegan you know and also
other wonderful preventative cardiologists such as robert vogel team doctor to the nfl and
and dean ornish throughout this debate i would urge you okay so that's appealing
to authority first of all just because some some expert or something somewhere says this is
the right way to go doesn't actually mean that it is hitler was an expert hitler was an authority
do we just do everything that he said because you know he's an authority no of course not you
know that's nice that you know people are are going this that they feel that they're an expert
and they feel that that's the right thing for them to do but it doesn't actually prove anything you
know um and again what vegan diet what vegan diet is he talking about does he just say yeah just
eat oreo cookies and you know you know and a bunch of pasta and drink soda that's all vegan you
know oreo cookies are vegan okay so you know i'm positive that he is not having people do that when
they go onto a vegan diet and i'm sure he doesn't recommend that either so there's this conflation
where you're saying you go on to a vegan diet and everything gets better and i'm sure he's having
you know very good results you know and and he's obviously someone who cares about his patients and
obviously someone who's trying to do the best for them and i'm sure that the diets and things like
that that he's putting forward are helping them where are they starting where are they ending up
they're probably eating a whole bunch processed crap with a bunch of sugar and carbohydrates and
other nonsense and then he's getting him off all of that crap and put him on like a whole food
vegan sort of plant-based whatever and at the same time he's saying oh and reduce the amount
of fat and you know saturated fat animal fat and animal products that you have you know but
he's going to be changing a lot of things as well okay and you know we have we have so
much evidence to show that that cholesterol doesn't actually cause heart disease that's not
the problem here this is an inflammatory process and you know actually has to do with you know
um you know hyperglycemia and you know um different kinds of cholesterol molecules like
vldl and hdl or sorry vldl and sdldl that are derived from fructose and alcohol not from meat
and that these then get glycated from the high blood sugar and that your your body can't suck
these things up anymore because it's just damaged now that's what glycation is is what kills
diabetics having that high blood sugar and so now your body can't suck these things
up you get by your liver can't you process them the only things that can pick these up are
the scavenger receptors on your macrophages and so your macrophages start picking these things
up they just eat them up eat them up eat them up beat them up and up and they grow and grow
and grow they turn these massive foam cells and during this whole inflammatory process you start
getting these these atherosclerotic plaques okay that's been well described in the literature okay
so it's not cholesterol it's this entire disease process that is generally you know pushed and
predicated on eating sugar eating carbohydrates drinking alcohol okay smoking cigarettes oh
there's a ton of things that that add to this you know but just eating cholesterol is
really not not the driving factor here the carnival team to produce any long-term
studies to show that a carnivore diet produces a reduction in cut in in event rates or
reduction in reduction in cancer again you know we don't have those studies that show
specifically a carnivore diet is going to do this we've got a ton of evidence and studies showing
that like ketogenic does it we have a ton of evidence biochemical evidence showing that if you
cut out carbohydrates this shrinks cancers that this actually reduces your risk of cancers and
so forth by certain specific biochemical pathways that that get disrupted when you eat carbohydrates
okay at a cellular at a microcellular level okay um you know so that's a that's a false argument
you know it's like of course we're not going to produce a lot you know 30-year long carnivore
study showing that they don't exist yet because this is a very new burgeoning argument that's
actually very very old but it's just being rediscovered now um and so we of course we don't
have the data for that you know but we do have data looking at indigenous people like the inuits
and so forth or the native australians where they don't they weren't eating any you know plant-based
products at all they're eating very high fat diets they weren't getting any of these problems and
they'll they'll argue there's like oh well there's these studies that actually show that you know
the indians and so forth uh living i mean wherever i actually have you know mixed sort of you know
some have heart disease some have atherosclerosis some don't some have diabetes actually you
know you can't just say that those studies look at the inuit people as an ethnic population
not living in their natural state as carnivores as high-fat carnivores they're talking
so they're including the people living in cities eating a western diet well we all know
that's going to be that's going to be a problem we're trying we're not talking about the ethnic
group inuits we're talking about their traditional diet and what does that do and that actually
shows a significant benefit of in health and reduction in disease um you know i learned when
i was a kid that you know native americans when eating a western diet were four times as likely
to get obesity heart disease diabetes cancer and so forth right i remember thinking as a kid
well you know doesn't that mean that the food is causing the disease because if they don't eat
the food they don't get the disease and we eat the food and we get the disease we just get it at
a lower rate you know and i was thinking okay well what what is a non-western diet you know what
would they normally be eating that they're not now and you know what are they eating that
we're not vice versa right they never really said anything but what you know but the answer to
that is they were they were high-fat carnivores you know planes indians were eating buffalo
they drive a herd off off a cliff they have they have really fatty meat make pemmican look it
up it's cool with that it's actually really good they would eat that the rest of the damn year
okay you have the inuits up north they they're you know eating seal and and walrus and and uh you
know bear and things like that polar bear fish and so forth so you know then when they go onto a
western diet and you'll drink alcohol and eat sugar and things like that as well they get very
very sick okay but then if you stop eating that it goes away okay so that that's showing causation
there and there's a study in australia that actually showed that as well because they you know
they're very very you know unhealthy population you know as a whole here in australia the native
australians uh that's because they're eating you know western food and they're you know drinking
alcohol eating sugar and all these sorts of things and then someone figured out was like okay
well you know if you you guys won't normally eat this stuff you know why don't you just
go back to eat what you normally do which is meat you know just animals that you you are
able to hunt in the in the wild and then when you got them on that it just it just reversed
everything okay so this is showing causation okay and there's actual studies that do show
causation with like fructose and metabolic disease and all these other sorts of things as well so
again you don't have that perfectly designed you know 30-year rct with you know carnivore versus
whatever but there's other things that exist you know there's a you know where's the randomized
control trial showing that parachutes work where's the randomized control trial showing
that smoking causes cancer or you know after or you know atherosclerosis or emphysema you know
this is something we we just take for granted this is what we're taught this is what we teach
and this is what we see but there aren't any randomized control trials showing that
okay so again you know there's evidence that exists outside of a randomized control trial
but there are carnivore studies coming as well and i might even try to convince you to think
that all the top researchers from the top epidemiologists and every top doctor treating
cardio cardiovascular disease and oncology would be thinking that they've got it wrong they've got
it right i want to bring you the evidence based okay so here's sort of obviously you're gonna
have to stop a lot here because there's just a lot of these things are just um i think
that they're not really robust arguments so again you know it's just like you know how dare
you question all the top epidemiologists in the world well first of all epidemiological
data um is used to to back things up they don't have any business doing that when
you're looking at epidemiological studies generally if it doesn't show a 200
percent you know increased correlation you don't even look at it as significant all these
epidemiological studies are showing like an 18 increase and so forth they have so many
confounding factors that go into these sorts of things and in fact when they redid all these
epidemiological studies they didn't even show a correlation between you know eating meat and bowel
cancer eating meat and heart disease eating meat and all these sorts of things okay so um you know
and and again that's appealing to authority just because you know teachers said so that doesn't
actually mean it's true you know all the top scientists in the world thought the earth was flat
too at one point how'd that one work out okay and if you really want to know what the top the top
epidemiologist on earth thinks professor john i neides from stanford who is one of the top 10 most
cited researchers of all time in any field he said and i quote that eat lancet study is not
science it's science fiction and that's the only way i can describe it or paraphrase
them anyway so actually the top epidemiologists think this is garbage and they've shown
scarves you look up his work he talks about it observational studies when we think about some of
the work done in the blue zones by dan buettner from ikaria loma linda sardinia um
okinawa and nikoi and costa rica these diets of the world's longest living people
are predominantly plant-based they did not either they did not eat a lot of red meat and i can
guarantee you they weren't in ketosis for the for their whole lives yet these are the people
living living to 90th 90 years old and longer and are happy and alive so when you think about
okay again so these are very problematic studies the blues blue zone study they only looked
at incomplete data they didn't look at every single society they didn't look at native
populations they were eating as a carnivore okay they just skipped those out all right um and
you know talking about okinawa okay uh okinawa they're saying that all these people these things
didn't eat red meat that's that's clever how he used that word didn't use red meat they eat a
lot of pig they eat they have pigs all over that island okay they eat a lot of meat okay it's just
pig it's not red meat like oh sorry you know i guess throw the whole whole argument out um and uh
actually uh the longest-lived city is um hong kong uh and this again is averages from birth right
which is mostly meaningless but that's what we're looking at uh that's how we compare these
things so hong kong eats the most meat per capita of any population in the world they have
the longest average lifespan from birth okay conveniently things like the blue
zone study and eat lancet and all that just just ignore that okay or just leave it out
all right um and then okay these guys are living to the 90s well they're not all living to their
90s again their average is you know i think it's uh 78 in okinawa around there i think um hong kong
is around 80. anyway it but that's the highest um so you know that's the average people are
living older than that though but they're saying they're living to their 90s okay great um we
know as geneticists that the human animal is chromosomally genetically designed to live 120
years okay so 90 is dying young actually okay so you're doing something wrong okay now maybe it's
because you're eating plants you're not eating whatever it is you're doing something and again
okinawa eat a lot of meat they eat a lot of pig okay um so you know that's not you know that's not
really you know uh a fair assessment i don't think uh you know these people you know they're
living longer as having a plant-based diet i then want to ask you to think about
a biomarker and biomarkers we use which doesn't necessarily change our mortality but
they are clues and a plant-based diet is the only and vegan diet is the only dietary pattern that
consistently reduces and improves biomarkers associated with major disease
states we do know that a plant-based diet reduces traditional risk
factors such as high-sensitivity crpl ldlc and high in whole grains um nuts and seeds
leads a reduction in ldl blood pressure and also lipoprotein delay even with as much as four weeks
we can on a vegan diet we can see a reduction in c and crp lp little a as powerful as taking as
powerful as taking statin medications then when we think okay so let's talk about that okay so
uh you know he's talking he's talking about um you know reduction of ldl cholesterol ldlc's
ldl cholesterol um ldl cholesterol does not cause heart disease okay all the big studies post
2015 have showed this conclusively okay there's a meta-analysis so you have a you know control
trials randomized control trials you have a meta-analysis which looks at all those randomized
control trials looks all the data and sort of correlates it out statistically and said okay what
are we seeing here with this massive population and these these you know massive group of people
now the large meta-analysis um in the journal of american college of cardiology published in 2021
so it's a recent study okay meta-analysis showed that saturated fat was not a cardiovascular risk
and instead it was protective against stroke okay so this goes against everything that we are have
been taught in medical school certainly that he was taught during his uh you know residency in in
cardiology so you know it's understandable that he's very much on the side of you know cholesterol
is bad because we've been railing against cholesterol for 60 years okay it just happens to
be wrong um more so the british journal of sports medicine uh they published a paper in the last few
years showing that saturated fat ldl cholesterol is not a cause of heart disease um it's actually
an inflammatory process like i mentioned before um and in fact there's an inverse relationship
uh between saturated fat intake and heart disease inverse okay so it protects against heart disease
it also protects against alzheimer's and and parkinson's and so forth because your brain is
made out of fat and cholesterol and so forth you need that to keep your brain healthy okay you need
to to to develop healthy as well so kids vitally important for them to get this evil saturated fat
as well okay um there's a large study uh with 60 000 patients i think was published in 2015 looking
at stats you say oh this is better than stats at reducing cholesterol we don't want to reduce
cholesterol cholesterol is not the problem okay statins have side effects okay they sap your cells
of vitamin co q10 anybody who prescribes statins you know without prescribing vitamin
c q10 i think is doing their patient a big disservice okay because i can actually damage
your your cells and damage your heart cells okay so you're giving a medication to protect your
heart and you're you're now damaging your heart with that medication okay that's not great so
this looked at patients over the age of 65 is the most common cohort for people they're at risk of
heart disease and and um and heart attack zero on statins sixty thousand people they found that
there was a that that taking statins was at least neutral in their um in their risk of getting
a heart attack and stroke and so forth or even worse okay so people are having statins having you
know lower ldl cholesterol we're actually having worse outcomes okay so statistically was actually
wasn't quite even it was actually they were a little worse okay so saying look we really need
to rethink this because we're giving a medication that that is is not helping it is definitely
not helping and it could be causing harm and i would argue that it does cause harm
because you're giving somebody something that has side effects and no benefit okay so
that's the definition of causing harm okay the british uh you know uh the bmj the british
medical journal um they did a literature review a few years ago as well again found no association
are actually in inverse association between ldl cholesterol and all cause mortality and
cardiovascular mortality in the elderly okay so what are we doing that's not a marker of disease
there was another study another lit review in 2018 um that showed again ldl cholesterol does not
cause cardiovascular disease there's another study showing that lower cholesterol level
levels were linked to depression and suicide okay so people that had lower ldl cholesterol
were having much higher rates of depression and the ones who had depression and low cholesterol
had a much higher rate of suicide okay that's a big deal all right so in fact now psychiatrists
who know this are now recommending their patients get your damn cholesterol up okay that's good is
going to save your life and change your life okay um so you know this is all the new data this
is this is very robust stuff we're talking about hundreds of thousands of patients we're
talking about massive studies meta-analyses all these sorts of things okay but we almost don't
need them okay because all the studies that showed that cholesterol caused heart disease were
bunk there is no high level evidence that actually shows that cholesterol is even associated
with heart disease no high level evidence none and the evidence that we do have we now
know is bunk we now know it's not only false but fraudulent okay the journal of american
medical association published in 2015 actual internal memos from the sugar companies back
in you know you know 40s 50s 60s talking about how there were studies coming out that that were
suggesting that sugar caused heart disease now we you have actual hard evidence to suggest that it
does okay so at the time they were like okay well you know we need to put some you know counter
arguments out there so in their own words in their own documents they detailed how they paid
off three harvard professors to falsify data and publish fraudulent studies to make it appear as
if cholesterol was causing heart disease when it was really sugar and one of those professors was
named head of the usda in 1965 and then the usda is the was the one that declared unequivocally
that cholesterol causes heart disease saturated fat increases cholesterol stop eating both it
changed the world people stopped eating fat they stopped eating cholesterol i stopped eating red
meat especially and eggs because all these are the worst they have the most cholesterol actually
they're the best they have the most nutrients that which cholesterol is one of and so a saturated
fat what were the results you know we reduced our our cholesterol intake by 30 reduced red meat
by 33 percent increased fruits and vegetables by 30 and 40 respectively increase you know
sugars and grains as well what happened this is in america hundreds of millions of people what
happened the obesity rate tripled stroke crate tripled heart disease tripled cancer rates tripled
type 2 diabetes autoimmune disorders alzheimer's parkinson's even neurodevelopmental delays such
as autism these all increased exponentially okay these almost didn't exist before now
they're the only things we treat so you know he's talking about well where's your where's your
evidence to say that a carnivore diet is going to reduce these things dude where's yours you know
the you know you we reduced cholesterol by 30 we reduce saturate you know saturated fat and and
red meat by 30 33 okay heart disease went up heart disease tripled okay so that is that is
very conclusive right well maybe there's something else going on obviously there's a lot of these
things can go on but when you run an experiment especially with hundreds of millions of people
and you get these outcomes you have to start thinking about it okay as richard feynman said you
know it doesn't matter how brilliant your theory is and it doesn't matter how smart you are if it
doesn't agree with experiment it's wrong okay so we did the experiment it's wrong okay and we know
that we have we have hard evidence showing that it's [ __ ] okay ansel keys did something called
the seven you know seven nation study or something like that and he found the nations that say oh the
more cholesterol you have the more heart disease you have it was it was this exponential growth was
exponential you know chart okay wow that was very that was very compelling but that's a correlation
correlation does not equal causation okay and he had complete data for like 23 countries
he only used the seven that fit the graph if you look at the rest of the of the of the countries
if you plot those on a graph it's just scattered you know so there isn't even a correlation okay there isn't a correlation let alone a
causation okay so there is no correlation between cholesterol and heart disease framingham study
okay there's a very famous study in cardiology i think it's like 76 000 patients followed
them for like 20 years and they're like okay what sort of markers these biomarkers that he's
talking about which ones are significant and they concluded that cholesterol total cholesterol is
before we distinguish them total cholesterol being higher was an increased risk for heart disease and
cardiovascular disease okay the only problem with that is their own results and findings showed
the opposite okay but they actually you know and you can find this and they says like well you
know we did find this and this that and the other however we still feel that you know cholesterol
is is a significant uh risk factor okay that's fraud that that is your academic malpractice
okay but that went out and you get these things and you repeat them so many times that people
just oh well that's what it is everyone knows it well again everyone knew that the earth
was flat too not that one worked out right oh and the seeds too i mean okay you who cares
if you're we don't care that we're reducing ldl cholesterol but you know it does one thing though
let's say that you wanted it to do reduce the ldl cholesterol okay but you got to understand this
is a complex you know organic count you know these are all complex organic compounds you're putting
in your body and there's tens of thousands of them you know what do those ones do what do the
rest of them do okay because i mean there's cyanide in almonds okay you know one to two
pounds of almonds in a day will kill you okay you know inside a peach pit it looks like a
little shriveled up almond it's called call the um um what is it called bitter almond okay one or two
of those will kill you with the amount of cyanide that's in there okay so a seed is a plant's baby
okay all organisms protect their babies more than anything a seed is a plant's baby that's generally
where you'll find the highest concentration of toxic elements okay so you're eating a bunch of
seeds to lower your cholesterol which you don't want to do and you're bringing in all this
other crap again it's cherry picking okay so you're saying this you have this one beneficial
thing okay what else is in there what are the other hundred thousand things that are so that
are in in all men what do those ones do for you okay are they all good or at least neutral so
there's one good thing just sort of tips you over the balance you know the answer to that riddle
is no okay so we'll go on think about more novel risk factors and my teammate um jason's going to
talk about the microbiome but i want to talk about trimethylamine and inoxide which is produced
by the gut in response to choline consumption choline comes from red red meat eggs and
dairy and the more tmao we produce in our guts as a byproduct of these foods the higher
the risk for cardiovascular disease kidney disease obesity and myocardial infarction and what's
fascinating is if if you vegans do not produce tmao in the gastrointestory intestinal tracts
and we this is research has come out of the cleveland clinic and has been re reproduced in
multiples multiple studies on both high risk and low risk risk patient groups then we have
to start thinking okay that's a better argument all right you know talking about tmao and so forth
fine yeah you know i have no problem with that the problem the problem um comes because these these
studies look at meat eaters not carnivores okay so you know he asked us where's the carnivore
study that shows that a carnivore diet shows improvement in these sorts of things okay
where's your study that shows a carnivore diet causes harm because we don't have those studies
either okay we look at meat eaters we look at people that have meat in their diet okay and this
is again problematic with these epidemiological studies and these confounding factors because
you know we've been told for the last you know 40 50 years that eating meat will kill you
especially red meat will kill you and so you have you have a certain population who then says you
know what i'm gonna do this because i enjoy it and i want to do it so screw it i only have one
life well a lot of people with that mentality also smoke drink you know you know do extreme
sports and all these sorts of things they're more likely to die in a car a car accident they're more
likely to speed more likely to do different things that are that are dangerous because they say screw
it i've only got one life i'm going to enjoy it and you know red meat got put into that category
of something that's super bad for you and they're like ah screw it so you have these people
that that is a confounding factor and that is something has to be accounted for okay
so when they control for those things you know that you know meat eaters are more
likely to smoke they're more likely to drink the more likely you do all these sorts of things
when you control for that and you and you sort of uh correct for that you actually don't find an
association with any of this crap okay so again where's the study that shows that carnivorism
caused about not meat eating with all this other crap going on but carnivorism and
okay so and and so for the microbiome your microbiome is going to be very very different
depending on what you eat it changes basically daily okay because your what you eat feeds your
your gut biome okay and so if you eat different things you're gonna have a different biome
okay so it depends on what bacteria you have you have specific bacteria that will break down
specific things into specific byproducts okay so if you have specific bacteria that
you know may turn you know these these um you know choline into uh you know a tmao
okay maybe all right are you gonna have that gut bacteria if you're on a carnivore diet do
that study where's your study showing that okay um probably not honestly i don't know because
we don't have a study but we don't know it doesn't matter though because if you're just
eating a carnivore diet you're not eating fiber fiber delays the absorption actually blocks and
stops the absorption and breakdown of the food that you eat this was the argument there's the
entire argument in the 80s on why you should eat fiber because it stops you from absorbing calories
it has no nutrition it feels like you're full and it blocks your body's ability to absorb food
how would that arise in nature that that's like a good thing for survival and starvation
i mean that doesn't make any damn sense but that was the argument when it was all fat
busters gotta lose weight lose weight lose weight all these sorts of things um okay but what are
you doing you're stuck you have these big tangles of fiber that you cannot break down no vertebrate
animal can break these down it's actually special bacteria in the guts of things like you know of
herbivores that can break this stuff down okay we don't have those okay there's something you can
get some of those in your large intestine they don't exist before that um so you get these big
tangles okay and you know these food particles are stuck in these tangles enzymes can't get to
it and they can't get to the you know the this um you know the borders of your of your small
intestine and aluminum your intestine and so forth so they can't get absorbed okay so these get
taken into the large intestine where bacteria are and these then you know cause these problems so if
you're not eating fiber your body's gonna absorb all this stuff very little of that is going to
get if any is going to get you a large intestine we know this because we've studied this with
people uh with stomas you know you remove part of your intestine you have this bag the fecal
matter comes comes out in the bag and we look at this when people are not eating fiber and they're
eating you know animal protein and so forth almost none of it comes out okay but when you're
eating plant proteins a lot of it comes out this is how we know about bioavailability of
of you know meat-based proteins versus plant-based proteins okay that's part of you
know why we know that plant-based proteins don't have a very high bioavailability and that
meat does okay so if you're not eating fiber you know and you're not eating plants at all
you may not even have the right bacteria that will turn the stuff into tmao okay but either way
you're not eating fiber so you know the majority of what you're eating is going to get absorbed so
it's not even going to get to the large intestine to be introduced to the bacteria which may
not even exist anyway okay so there's that thinking about outcomes because it's fine to
reduce think about what we see then it's fine to think about biomarkers but how can we show a
plant-based diet can reduce both cardiovascular event rates and and malignancy and these are
the only dietary pattern that has shown to reduce uh obesity and we do know
some people think they can lose a lot of weight on a ketogenic or or can't
carnivore diet and perhaps some people do so you'll have a thinner coffin when you die and
you'll be if you be this you'll be there sooner um okay so i mean he literally just contradicted
himself okay he's saying there's there's no st there's no diet that you know shows that you
can get weight loss you accept a vegan diet oh i mean i guess you could with keto but uh you're
just gonna die okay well does it make you lose weight or doesn't it okay and again you know what
vegan diet what kind of vegan diet are you doing the oreo cookie cookie and heroin diet that's
vegan meth is vegan okay just means no meat right rocks are vegan okay so you
know you know define your terms here you know just any old vegan diet no obviously not
we know that you know but then you're saying oh nothing else has been shown to do this except for
vegan diet oh except for all these other things too but uh you don't want those okay well you know
you're not really helping your own argument here um we know that vegan diets significantly
improve improved dyslipidemia we know that they reduce hypertension we think again who
gives a [ __ ] about dyslipidemia who cares about your cholesterol when you're not eating
sugar you're not eating uh you're not drinking alcohol and you're not eating a bunch of
carbohydrates to jack up uh your blood sugar okay you know if you're if you're one of
these people that are you know you know drinking alcohol eating sugar eating carbohydrates
and so forth you know statin might help you you know because you you do have you know uh
you know this disease process this inflammatory process that's going on okay you know maybe that
will help that would be an interesting study if you distinguish out those sorts
of things okay um but yeah otherwise i really don't care about cholesterol as a
doctor and as a patient like i just don't care we think about one of the most common causes of of
stroke and heart failure in western world it's uh it's it's hypertension we know that a vegan diet
predictably you know improves improves diabetes and and also in also a heart and also
heart failure okay so one of the most um one of the the diets that we have the most uh
data on and conclusive evidence on for helping diabetes actually is the ketogenic diet we've
been using that for well over a hundred years and we using the 1800s to stabilize diabetics
blood sugar and so forth okay so there is just a ton of evidence you know showing a ketogenic diet
if you're diabetic especially type 2 diabetic type 1 as well you really don't want to eat
carbohydrates you really don't want to eat sugar you know so that that is very important for that
so and again you know oreo cookies not going to be good for a diabetic hypertension sure hypertension
is is a killer but you know i i'm you know we have no study showing that a carnivore diet increases
your blood pressure none okay and i have dozens of patients right now on a carnivore diet
i've spoken to hundreds of people over the past few thousands really and there's you know people
in you know carnivore groups and chat group things like that where we talk about these sorts of
things you know you know rivera health is a really good one for that there's different facebook
groups as well um you know dr baker has has helped tons of people we're not seeing blood pressure
be an issue in fact we're seeing people get off their blood pressure medication my father's had
you know intractable blood pressure problems for you know for yonks he doesn't anymore that's very
stable now you know i've been eating this way for you know i've always been heavy meat eater and
i've basically been a pure always basically been in pure carnivore i eat everything else by
sufferance but you know for about the last 20 years i was really full on for a solid five years
and then sort of slipped off was eating little bits and pieces of things here and there and for
the last you know five six years absolutely not anything besides meat salt water okay i don't
have any blood pressure issues okay and you know my patients don't have blood pressure issues on a
carnivore diet either okay and i've never heard of that i've never heard of someone going carnivore
and having a blood pressure issue um simple reason why physiologically humans are carnivores that's
the kind of animal we are that's how we develop that's how we evolve so you know you know you go
to first principles we're not going to have these disease state processes if you're eating naturally
you know you know elderly lions don't you know probably don't have a bunch of blood pressure
issues if they're just you know still eating meat okay that's an abnormal pathology that
comes about when eating the wrong thing there are multiple studies published in literature
in large peer-reviewed literature especially in study in journals like the journal of american
party cardiology journal which shows the more serving of animal foods you have the greater the
chance of heart disease with 4.8 million million person years and one of the most important studies
is that for every cat when even if we replace a small amount of animal protein with plant protein
we can show a significant reduction not only cardiovascular disease but cancer you know it's
no point treating everyone with heart disease only for them to die of many many many years later
okay again so you get these these associations you know you know correlation is not causation you
know and again these these epidemiological studies are saying that like you know this um you know
meat eaters what does that mean that does not mean carnivores that means someone who eats meat
and also smokes and drinks and drives too fast okay but i don't know which ones he's quoting
there they've done tons of these over the decades but the recent ones corrected and controlled
for those sorts of things they didn't even find an association with eating meat and these
poorer outcomes okay um so you know again like you know and you know i don't know what
study he's referring to where you're replacing some you know animal protein with with you know
with plant protein and that improves some things somehow i'd have to take a look at the study and
have to know what he's talking about there but um it sounds pretty suspect honestly because
it doesn't make any damn sense you know if that's the only thing that you're changing in
that system and again this is going to be a system eating you know the sad diet you know standard
australian diet standard american diet things like that with a bunch of other crap in it
okay so it's not the meat that's doing this show me a single study showing me showing
that you've controlled for everything else except for meat and meat is the problem show
me one study that says that there are none and we do know that people that adopted a
plant-based diet had significantly reduced reduced malignancy rates um 30 seconds jason 30 seconds
30 seconds so i'd like to sum up that a vegan vegan diet is what is the only dietary pattern
that in a western society has shown a reduction in the main in in both the incidents and allows
us treatment for the major diseases that reflect western society and is sustainable for us for our
planet for for our population and for our patients to follow okay so sustainable for the planet
that is absolutely incorrect um when you grow a crop you necessarily have to destroy an entire
ecosystem you have to just you have to bulldoze and destroy all the plants kill all the plants
kill all the animals rip up the ground till it up and then you know plant your crops okay and crops
well just any plant in general they take nutrients they get their nutrients from their soil right
what puts the the nutrients back in animals so when you're having an ecosystem you have plants
and animals living in symbiosis where you know they each nourish eat and help each other
okay so you know animals will be eating the plants and then they'll their their excretions
and so forth will then replace those nutrients back into the soil okay and that is what is
what nourishes that replenishes the nutrients in the soil okay and that's what keeps plants
growing again um tons of people have done this um alan savory who's out in zimbabwe he's been doing
this for 40 years or something like that taking large herds of animals moving through deserts
moving through mines like strip mines and things like that and actually because those animals are
there all of a sudden these things are able to you know regrow the soil re-neutral um you know
re-nourish the soil and all of a sudden they're growing just massive massive massive amounts of
vegetation and so forth forests are coming back you know then new animals will come back through
you know and start migrating there and so forth um it's massive changes um you know dr peter
ballista was very interesting guy you should look up his stuff i'll try to put some some
links to these guys in the in the description uh but you know he's a phd in forage agronomy i've
i've spoken to him you know just personally i was very interested in his work so i emailed him and
we ended up having a you know discussion over zoom very interesting guy very bright guy really
shows the science behind how important animals are to the environment think about it this way
during the dust bowl in america during the 1930s um you know no one could grow anything we
had dust storms all these sorts of things everything was horrible we then figured
and it was running into a desert it's turning to like the sahara desert right um
which is man-made by the way look it up and we figured this out this was actually the farming
techniques okay um and we realized that you know this is when you you're tilling the soil you're
making large rows of this stuff it rains it washes all the topsoil away wind hits it picks it up
blows it all away okay so you're losing all these top soil all this top soil we're able to change
things around to mitigate that but we still lose billions of tons a year in 2017 we lost 27.5
billion tons of topsoil okay that's an area of the size of kentucky okay which is the
size of you know a european country okay so you know that that's a finite resource as well
you know it takes you know uh 500 years to grow a centimeter of topsoil okay that is going to run
out a lot quicker than we realize okay and so you know that's a big problem and you know where
do these fertilizers come from for crops they come from animals they come from livestock okay
they come from their manure you know they talk about they talk about you know animals you know
uh all day if we if we just weren't growing all this you know like you know corn and things
like that for you know animal feed and stuff like that you know we we'd have more than enough
food and blah blah blah blah blah that's nonsense the the feed that they give to to animals is
like hey how much hay do you want to eat exactly okay they're eating the parts of the plants that
we cannot eat that we cannot digest 92 percent of the feed of the the crops grown for um for
animals for livestock is inedible by humans it's the leavings it's the waste okay so it's like you
know the shaft of the wheat and things like that we can't eat that that's given to cows okay and
they eat that their manure replenishes the soil okay so this is nonsense and you know helping
the like that is just nonsense you know so i can go to that and other things but watch peter
ballista watch alan savory you know you he did uh um several youtube talks and he had a ted talk
as well quickly about you know the sahara desert that actually wasn't a desert several thousand
years ago okay before the agricultural revolution that's what changed things in my opinion i i think
that anyway i think the evidence is there you know the the um the pyramids and and sphinx we had soil
samples done in the 1990s that actually looked and found that you know they were like oh these
always desert people i found no actually these were these were built in jungles these were jungle
people these were jungle pyramids okay but they had widespread farming that sort of grew around
that time and you know you know in the bc era and it turned things to desert because they
didn't figure it out you had the nile river which flooded every year and the silt would
replenish the nutrients we learned this as kids and we don't think past that but what does
that mean that means that the nutrients needed to be replenished every single year where all
the places that didn't have a nile river they didn't get replenished they couldn't grow
things after that turned to deserts we have satellite images infrared satellite images that
actually showed that there's like human you know human habitation all across what is now the
sahara desert you know like you know structures and things like that you know the the you know
the bones of a structure and civilizations and things like that that was not a desert okay these
things were made by agriculture by crops okay not animals the animals are what kept these things
alive okay that's what keeps the environment and ecosystem alive okay so i think that's
that's probably enough for that one sorry that i had a lot to say about that i'll do i'll do
the other um the other participants as well because i think there's definitely things
to address there uh in other videos um this one was mostly surrounded by um you know with
the cholesterol debate and i think that that's something that's very very important because
that's central to this discussion on plant-based versus you know meat diets and carnivore vegan
and and so forth being the extremes of that but it's something that's very very important
something i have patients and and you know friends and colleagues going what about
cholesterol what about cholesterol what about cholesterol okay so you look like you're
in good shape you know you look like you're healthy and all your bloods and everything
like that show you're very very very healthy but what's your cholesterol doing i'll tell
you what my cholesterol is doing i don't give a damn i know what my cholesterol is but i don't
give a damn okay it's actually basically normal but i don't give a damn if it's high it's
physiological whatever it is it's physiological because i'm eating in an evolutionary
biological species specific way and so whatever my cholesterol is whatever my bloods are
doing they're supposed to be doing that you know we have these blood markers and these these
studies and these standardized tests that we use that are predicated on lies okay so we need
to rethink these and we need to get different reference ranges and so forth to to tell
us what's actually healthy and what's not okay all right guys well i hope you enjoyed that
i'll be doing further videos uh every week i'll probably be a little more than that as well
sometimes i'm starting a podcast as well with a friend of mine uh simon lewis uh called how
to carnivore with the plant for emd that's me no plans um and i'll do more of these uh rebuttal
sort of videos as well i'm sure they'd like to do vermont i think that would be great i would
love to have a conversation with these guys you know one-on-one maybe even over a video on uh
on podcasts and because i'm sure they have i mean things that i said and we said i'm sure they had
tons of things that they wanted to say about that and that's how you that's how you work
this out you both talk back and forth you say well you said this however i've seen this
study and looked at this what about this and they say the same thing back to you and you have a
discussion and i think that that's a very healthy thing to do i think that's really the best way to
to come to you know some sort of conclusion that you know maybe not maybe you guys you know when
i'm walking away saying you're going to agree to disagree but you know other people can take away
a lot from that and hopefully we can set that up in the future all right guys if you can like
and subscribe and share this with people that would really help i'm just getting the channel
started and and you know obviously that that is helpful when you do that so uh click the little
bell and you'll see more of my stuff thanks guys
to do a quick uh video just just going over some of the points that was made in the recent
carnival versus vegan debate that was held by uh acton and just do a bit of a rebuttal
on some of the points that the vegan team made um just because we didn't have a bit
as much of a back and forth um during the the debate itself so i just wanted to address
some of the points that they had as well or sort of go through them live and then sort of you
know stop and start and uh talk about things as we go okay uh i also just want to say you know
i had a really nice time with this time you know everybody involved you know you know whether or
not we agree or disagree everyone you know was coming from a very honest place you know they
they you know my impression was that everybody you know truly wanted uh what was right for people
they wanted to sort of figure out the truth and and what was the best way to help people and i
think that's the best way of doing things and i think it's very important for uh like-minded
people in that in that regard uh to come together and have these sorts of discussions and i think
that it went uh very well from that standpoint and uh everything was very uh you know collegial
which is which is the way to do it and you have to have these sorts of discussions and debates so
that you know your people hash out their ideas and and bounce them off other people that have an
opposing view and and see what comes up so uh i think that that went well from that standpoint i
just wanted to to go through uh some of those so we'll start here with uh uh first uh
gentlemen who's an amazing guest here we go uh good evening everyone and thank you for joining
and thank you pran for opening up opening up the debate i want to start off to think about why
we choose a dietary pattern we either choose it to live longer or to prevent disease and
pran gave some very interesting arguments but nowhere did i hear about any thing about the
carnivore diet preventing the most common diseases of western society or prolonging life
the major disease is now it's a quick one on that so obviously there there aren't you know robust
studies that have have specifically exclusively looked at the carnivore diet and you know what
that's going to do long term these are these are starting to come out now harvard just published
a study um there was another study that just came out you know just a couple days ago as well and
this is going to sort of get the ball rolling on those sorts of things hopefully we will get
that sort of thing the the point that people in the meat is good or carnivore camp uh are coming
for or are making is that you know there is there is data and there's information that you know it
is very clear that the the thoughts and and um uh you know notions that we've had for for decades
now are actually not true and so you know when you have a you know sort of you know something based
on a false pretense predicated on information we now know as false we have new information that
that shows that it's not that it's not accurate you have to sort of throw those those assumptions
out and you have to start over again okay and that's and that's a lot of what these arguments
are from they're quite robust actually so you know just not having you know a specific size
oh where's your rct that shows exactly what carnivore does well they're coming but there's
there's evidence that exists outside of that and a big part of that evidence is showing that
your evidence uh isn't actually accurate okay now society relate to cardiovascular disease
cardiometabolic disease and cancer and vegan and mostly plant-based diets are the only dietary
patterns that are able to achieve these goals when will you think about choosing
a dietary pattern for our health just a quick one there again
you know i addressed this in you know my my part of the debate and i went
further on my my larger discussion on my arguments what what is a vegan diet vegan just means not
meat so the only thing that makes a vegan diet is not meat so you know any vegan diet so just eat
oreo cookies and shoot heroin that that's okay that's going to reduce your cancer rate that's
going to be better than eating a steak really you know probably not so you know when when
you're talking about vegan diet like what does that even mean you know generally when people go
vegan they're being very health conscious they're thinking about this they're not eating processed
foods they're not going out to meals they're not eating drinking sodas they're not eating
things with a bunch of added sugar and so forth you're cutting out a lot of things that
that actually cause harm we know cause harm and so of course you're going to get better if you
were eating those things before and so you know that's not a that's not a controlled experiment
a controlled experience means you change one variable and you look at this group that hasn't
changed anything you change one variable and then you look at this group that's what a controlled
uh trial looks at that's not what's going on here with the vegan community they're not just changing
one thing they're changing dozens of things and then they're saying oh wow you know but
because we call it vegan vegan means no meat that's what it is well no i'm sorry you know if
you if you stop eating meat and you just eat a bunch of oreo cookies and you're drinking alcohol
and smoking cigarettes all plant-based you are not going to be doing well i'm sorry so they're
doing a lot of other things the people that have benefits are doing a lot of other things because a
lot of people don't a lot of people do eat a bunch of crap because they think that well it's vegan
therefore is good for me no of course it's not health and well-being we have to think about
outcome benefits the first thing we do is do is do no harm and i have seen plenty of
harm done by people eating a predominantly carnivore diet especially with underlying
underlying heart disease and then we have to think about choosing a dietary pattern that is
evidence for outcomes and reduced disease race when we recommend this for our patients and
ourselves and for the people around us this is what we need to look for and the evidence needs to
be consistent for the food patterns and individual foods within that particular particular patterns
and that can only be said for for a vegan diet as a preventative cardiologist
i've been on a 10 year journey to recommend sustainable dietary pattern that
allow patients to have a reduced disease rate and reduce reliance on medications to treat cardiac
cardiovascular disease and it's no surprise to see that the ex-president of the american college
of cardiology kim williams after his first heart attack decided to become vegan you know and also
other wonderful preventative cardiologists such as robert vogel team doctor to the nfl and
and dean ornish throughout this debate i would urge you okay so that's appealing
to authority first of all just because some some expert or something somewhere says this is
the right way to go doesn't actually mean that it is hitler was an expert hitler was an authority
do we just do everything that he said because you know he's an authority no of course not you
know that's nice that you know people are are going this that they feel that they're an expert
and they feel that that's the right thing for them to do but it doesn't actually prove anything you
know um and again what vegan diet what vegan diet is he talking about does he just say yeah just
eat oreo cookies and you know you know and a bunch of pasta and drink soda that's all vegan you
know oreo cookies are vegan okay so you know i'm positive that he is not having people do that when
they go onto a vegan diet and i'm sure he doesn't recommend that either so there's this conflation
where you're saying you go on to a vegan diet and everything gets better and i'm sure he's having
you know very good results you know and and he's obviously someone who cares about his patients and
obviously someone who's trying to do the best for them and i'm sure that the diets and things like
that that he's putting forward are helping them where are they starting where are they ending up
they're probably eating a whole bunch processed crap with a bunch of sugar and carbohydrates and
other nonsense and then he's getting him off all of that crap and put him on like a whole food
vegan sort of plant-based whatever and at the same time he's saying oh and reduce the amount
of fat and you know saturated fat animal fat and animal products that you have you know but
he's going to be changing a lot of things as well okay and you know we have we have so
much evidence to show that that cholesterol doesn't actually cause heart disease that's not
the problem here this is an inflammatory process and you know actually has to do with you know
um you know hyperglycemia and you know um different kinds of cholesterol molecules like
vldl and hdl or sorry vldl and sdldl that are derived from fructose and alcohol not from meat
and that these then get glycated from the high blood sugar and that your your body can't suck
these things up anymore because it's just damaged now that's what glycation is is what kills
diabetics having that high blood sugar and so now your body can't suck these things
up you get by your liver can't you process them the only things that can pick these up are
the scavenger receptors on your macrophages and so your macrophages start picking these things
up they just eat them up eat them up eat them up beat them up and up and they grow and grow
and grow they turn these massive foam cells and during this whole inflammatory process you start
getting these these atherosclerotic plaques okay that's been well described in the literature okay
so it's not cholesterol it's this entire disease process that is generally you know pushed and
predicated on eating sugar eating carbohydrates drinking alcohol okay smoking cigarettes oh
there's a ton of things that that add to this you know but just eating cholesterol is
really not not the driving factor here the carnival team to produce any long-term
studies to show that a carnivore diet produces a reduction in cut in in event rates or
reduction in reduction in cancer again you know we don't have those studies that show
specifically a carnivore diet is going to do this we've got a ton of evidence and studies showing
that like ketogenic does it we have a ton of evidence biochemical evidence showing that if you
cut out carbohydrates this shrinks cancers that this actually reduces your risk of cancers and
so forth by certain specific biochemical pathways that that get disrupted when you eat carbohydrates
okay at a cellular at a microcellular level okay um you know so that's a that's a false argument
you know it's like of course we're not going to produce a lot you know 30-year long carnivore
study showing that they don't exist yet because this is a very new burgeoning argument that's
actually very very old but it's just being rediscovered now um and so we of course we don't
have the data for that you know but we do have data looking at indigenous people like the inuits
and so forth or the native australians where they don't they weren't eating any you know plant-based
products at all they're eating very high fat diets they weren't getting any of these problems and
they'll they'll argue there's like oh well there's these studies that actually show that you know
the indians and so forth uh living i mean wherever i actually have you know mixed sort of you know
some have heart disease some have atherosclerosis some don't some have diabetes actually you
know you can't just say that those studies look at the inuit people as an ethnic population
not living in their natural state as carnivores as high-fat carnivores they're talking
so they're including the people living in cities eating a western diet well we all know
that's going to be that's going to be a problem we're trying we're not talking about the ethnic
group inuits we're talking about their traditional diet and what does that do and that actually
shows a significant benefit of in health and reduction in disease um you know i learned when
i was a kid that you know native americans when eating a western diet were four times as likely
to get obesity heart disease diabetes cancer and so forth right i remember thinking as a kid
well you know doesn't that mean that the food is causing the disease because if they don't eat
the food they don't get the disease and we eat the food and we get the disease we just get it at
a lower rate you know and i was thinking okay well what what is a non-western diet you know what
would they normally be eating that they're not now and you know what are they eating that
we're not vice versa right they never really said anything but what you know but the answer to
that is they were they were high-fat carnivores you know planes indians were eating buffalo
they drive a herd off off a cliff they have they have really fatty meat make pemmican look it
up it's cool with that it's actually really good they would eat that the rest of the damn year
okay you have the inuits up north they they're you know eating seal and and walrus and and uh you
know bear and things like that polar bear fish and so forth so you know then when they go onto a
western diet and you'll drink alcohol and eat sugar and things like that as well they get very
very sick okay but then if you stop eating that it goes away okay so that that's showing causation
there and there's a study in australia that actually showed that as well because they you know
they're very very you know unhealthy population you know as a whole here in australia the native
australians uh that's because they're eating you know western food and they're you know drinking
alcohol eating sugar and all these sorts of things and then someone figured out was like okay
well you know if you you guys won't normally eat this stuff you know why don't you just
go back to eat what you normally do which is meat you know just animals that you you are
able to hunt in the in the wild and then when you got them on that it just it just reversed
everything okay so this is showing causation okay and there's actual studies that do show
causation with like fructose and metabolic disease and all these other sorts of things as well so
again you don't have that perfectly designed you know 30-year rct with you know carnivore versus
whatever but there's other things that exist you know there's a you know where's the randomized
control trial showing that parachutes work where's the randomized control trial showing
that smoking causes cancer or you know after or you know atherosclerosis or emphysema you know
this is something we we just take for granted this is what we're taught this is what we teach
and this is what we see but there aren't any randomized control trials showing that
okay so again you know there's evidence that exists outside of a randomized control trial
but there are carnivore studies coming as well and i might even try to convince you to think
that all the top researchers from the top epidemiologists and every top doctor treating
cardio cardiovascular disease and oncology would be thinking that they've got it wrong they've got
it right i want to bring you the evidence based okay so here's sort of obviously you're gonna
have to stop a lot here because there's just a lot of these things are just um i think
that they're not really robust arguments so again you know it's just like you know how dare
you question all the top epidemiologists in the world well first of all epidemiological
data um is used to to back things up they don't have any business doing that when
you're looking at epidemiological studies generally if it doesn't show a 200
percent you know increased correlation you don't even look at it as significant all these
epidemiological studies are showing like an 18 increase and so forth they have so many
confounding factors that go into these sorts of things and in fact when they redid all these
epidemiological studies they didn't even show a correlation between you know eating meat and bowel
cancer eating meat and heart disease eating meat and all these sorts of things okay so um you know
and and again that's appealing to authority just because you know teachers said so that doesn't
actually mean it's true you know all the top scientists in the world thought the earth was flat
too at one point how'd that one work out okay and if you really want to know what the top the top
epidemiologist on earth thinks professor john i neides from stanford who is one of the top 10 most
cited researchers of all time in any field he said and i quote that eat lancet study is not
science it's science fiction and that's the only way i can describe it or paraphrase
them anyway so actually the top epidemiologists think this is garbage and they've shown
scarves you look up his work he talks about it observational studies when we think about some of
the work done in the blue zones by dan buettner from ikaria loma linda sardinia um
okinawa and nikoi and costa rica these diets of the world's longest living people
are predominantly plant-based they did not either they did not eat a lot of red meat and i can
guarantee you they weren't in ketosis for the for their whole lives yet these are the people
living living to 90th 90 years old and longer and are happy and alive so when you think about
okay again so these are very problematic studies the blues blue zone study they only looked
at incomplete data they didn't look at every single society they didn't look at native
populations they were eating as a carnivore okay they just skipped those out all right um and
you know talking about okinawa okay uh okinawa they're saying that all these people these things
didn't eat red meat that's that's clever how he used that word didn't use red meat they eat a
lot of pig they eat they have pigs all over that island okay they eat a lot of meat okay it's just
pig it's not red meat like oh sorry you know i guess throw the whole whole argument out um and uh
actually uh the longest-lived city is um hong kong uh and this again is averages from birth right
which is mostly meaningless but that's what we're looking at uh that's how we compare these
things so hong kong eats the most meat per capita of any population in the world they have
the longest average lifespan from birth okay conveniently things like the blue
zone study and eat lancet and all that just just ignore that okay or just leave it out
all right um and then okay these guys are living to the 90s well they're not all living to their
90s again their average is you know i think it's uh 78 in okinawa around there i think um hong kong
is around 80. anyway it but that's the highest um so you know that's the average people are
living older than that though but they're saying they're living to their 90s okay great um we
know as geneticists that the human animal is chromosomally genetically designed to live 120
years okay so 90 is dying young actually okay so you're doing something wrong okay now maybe it's
because you're eating plants you're not eating whatever it is you're doing something and again
okinawa eat a lot of meat they eat a lot of pig okay um so you know that's not you know that's not
really you know uh a fair assessment i don't think uh you know these people you know they're
living longer as having a plant-based diet i then want to ask you to think about
a biomarker and biomarkers we use which doesn't necessarily change our mortality but
they are clues and a plant-based diet is the only and vegan diet is the only dietary pattern that
consistently reduces and improves biomarkers associated with major disease
states we do know that a plant-based diet reduces traditional risk
factors such as high-sensitivity crpl ldlc and high in whole grains um nuts and seeds
leads a reduction in ldl blood pressure and also lipoprotein delay even with as much as four weeks
we can on a vegan diet we can see a reduction in c and crp lp little a as powerful as taking as
powerful as taking statin medications then when we think okay so let's talk about that okay so
uh you know he's talking he's talking about um you know reduction of ldl cholesterol ldlc's
ldl cholesterol um ldl cholesterol does not cause heart disease okay all the big studies post
2015 have showed this conclusively okay there's a meta-analysis so you have a you know control
trials randomized control trials you have a meta-analysis which looks at all those randomized
control trials looks all the data and sort of correlates it out statistically and said okay what
are we seeing here with this massive population and these these you know massive group of people
now the large meta-analysis um in the journal of american college of cardiology published in 2021
so it's a recent study okay meta-analysis showed that saturated fat was not a cardiovascular risk
and instead it was protective against stroke okay so this goes against everything that we are have
been taught in medical school certainly that he was taught during his uh you know residency in in
cardiology so you know it's understandable that he's very much on the side of you know cholesterol
is bad because we've been railing against cholesterol for 60 years okay it just happens to
be wrong um more so the british journal of sports medicine uh they published a paper in the last few
years showing that saturated fat ldl cholesterol is not a cause of heart disease um it's actually
an inflammatory process like i mentioned before um and in fact there's an inverse relationship
uh between saturated fat intake and heart disease inverse okay so it protects against heart disease
it also protects against alzheimer's and and parkinson's and so forth because your brain is
made out of fat and cholesterol and so forth you need that to keep your brain healthy okay you need
to to to develop healthy as well so kids vitally important for them to get this evil saturated fat
as well okay um there's a large study uh with 60 000 patients i think was published in 2015 looking
at stats you say oh this is better than stats at reducing cholesterol we don't want to reduce
cholesterol cholesterol is not the problem okay statins have side effects okay they sap your cells
of vitamin co q10 anybody who prescribes statins you know without prescribing vitamin
c q10 i think is doing their patient a big disservice okay because i can actually damage
your your cells and damage your heart cells okay so you're giving a medication to protect your
heart and you're you're now damaging your heart with that medication okay that's not great so
this looked at patients over the age of 65 is the most common cohort for people they're at risk of
heart disease and and um and heart attack zero on statins sixty thousand people they found that
there was a that that taking statins was at least neutral in their um in their risk of getting
a heart attack and stroke and so forth or even worse okay so people are having statins having you
know lower ldl cholesterol we're actually having worse outcomes okay so statistically was actually
wasn't quite even it was actually they were a little worse okay so saying look we really need
to rethink this because we're giving a medication that that is is not helping it is definitely
not helping and it could be causing harm and i would argue that it does cause harm
because you're giving somebody something that has side effects and no benefit okay so
that's the definition of causing harm okay the british uh you know uh the bmj the british
medical journal um they did a literature review a few years ago as well again found no association
are actually in inverse association between ldl cholesterol and all cause mortality and
cardiovascular mortality in the elderly okay so what are we doing that's not a marker of disease
there was another study another lit review in 2018 um that showed again ldl cholesterol does not
cause cardiovascular disease there's another study showing that lower cholesterol level
levels were linked to depression and suicide okay so people that had lower ldl cholesterol
were having much higher rates of depression and the ones who had depression and low cholesterol
had a much higher rate of suicide okay that's a big deal all right so in fact now psychiatrists
who know this are now recommending their patients get your damn cholesterol up okay that's good is
going to save your life and change your life okay um so you know this is all the new data this
is this is very robust stuff we're talking about hundreds of thousands of patients we're
talking about massive studies meta-analyses all these sorts of things okay but we almost don't
need them okay because all the studies that showed that cholesterol caused heart disease were
bunk there is no high level evidence that actually shows that cholesterol is even associated
with heart disease no high level evidence none and the evidence that we do have we now
know is bunk we now know it's not only false but fraudulent okay the journal of american
medical association published in 2015 actual internal memos from the sugar companies back
in you know you know 40s 50s 60s talking about how there were studies coming out that that were
suggesting that sugar caused heart disease now we you have actual hard evidence to suggest that it
does okay so at the time they were like okay well you know we need to put some you know counter
arguments out there so in their own words in their own documents they detailed how they paid
off three harvard professors to falsify data and publish fraudulent studies to make it appear as
if cholesterol was causing heart disease when it was really sugar and one of those professors was
named head of the usda in 1965 and then the usda is the was the one that declared unequivocally
that cholesterol causes heart disease saturated fat increases cholesterol stop eating both it
changed the world people stopped eating fat they stopped eating cholesterol i stopped eating red
meat especially and eggs because all these are the worst they have the most cholesterol actually
they're the best they have the most nutrients that which cholesterol is one of and so a saturated
fat what were the results you know we reduced our our cholesterol intake by 30 reduced red meat
by 33 percent increased fruits and vegetables by 30 and 40 respectively increase you know
sugars and grains as well what happened this is in america hundreds of millions of people what
happened the obesity rate tripled stroke crate tripled heart disease tripled cancer rates tripled
type 2 diabetes autoimmune disorders alzheimer's parkinson's even neurodevelopmental delays such
as autism these all increased exponentially okay these almost didn't exist before now
they're the only things we treat so you know he's talking about well where's your where's your
evidence to say that a carnivore diet is going to reduce these things dude where's yours you know
the you know you we reduced cholesterol by 30 we reduce saturate you know saturated fat and and
red meat by 30 33 okay heart disease went up heart disease tripled okay so that is that is
very conclusive right well maybe there's something else going on obviously there's a lot of these
things can go on but when you run an experiment especially with hundreds of millions of people
and you get these outcomes you have to start thinking about it okay as richard feynman said you
know it doesn't matter how brilliant your theory is and it doesn't matter how smart you are if it
doesn't agree with experiment it's wrong okay so we did the experiment it's wrong okay and we know
that we have we have hard evidence showing that it's [ __ ] okay ansel keys did something called
the seven you know seven nation study or something like that and he found the nations that say oh the
more cholesterol you have the more heart disease you have it was it was this exponential growth was
exponential you know chart okay wow that was very that was very compelling but that's a correlation
correlation does not equal causation okay and he had complete data for like 23 countries
he only used the seven that fit the graph if you look at the rest of the of the of the countries
if you plot those on a graph it's just scattered you know so there isn't even a correlation okay there isn't a correlation let alone a
causation okay so there is no correlation between cholesterol and heart disease framingham study
okay there's a very famous study in cardiology i think it's like 76 000 patients followed
them for like 20 years and they're like okay what sort of markers these biomarkers that he's
talking about which ones are significant and they concluded that cholesterol total cholesterol is
before we distinguish them total cholesterol being higher was an increased risk for heart disease and
cardiovascular disease okay the only problem with that is their own results and findings showed
the opposite okay but they actually you know and you can find this and they says like well you
know we did find this and this that and the other however we still feel that you know cholesterol
is is a significant uh risk factor okay that's fraud that that is your academic malpractice
okay but that went out and you get these things and you repeat them so many times that people
just oh well that's what it is everyone knows it well again everyone knew that the earth
was flat too not that one worked out right oh and the seeds too i mean okay you who cares
if you're we don't care that we're reducing ldl cholesterol but you know it does one thing though
let's say that you wanted it to do reduce the ldl cholesterol okay but you got to understand this
is a complex you know organic count you know these are all complex organic compounds you're putting
in your body and there's tens of thousands of them you know what do those ones do what do the
rest of them do okay because i mean there's cyanide in almonds okay you know one to two
pounds of almonds in a day will kill you okay you know inside a peach pit it looks like a
little shriveled up almond it's called call the um um what is it called bitter almond okay one or two
of those will kill you with the amount of cyanide that's in there okay so a seed is a plant's baby
okay all organisms protect their babies more than anything a seed is a plant's baby that's generally
where you'll find the highest concentration of toxic elements okay so you're eating a bunch of
seeds to lower your cholesterol which you don't want to do and you're bringing in all this
other crap again it's cherry picking okay so you're saying this you have this one beneficial
thing okay what else is in there what are the other hundred thousand things that are so that
are in in all men what do those ones do for you okay are they all good or at least neutral so
there's one good thing just sort of tips you over the balance you know the answer to that riddle
is no okay so we'll go on think about more novel risk factors and my teammate um jason's going to
talk about the microbiome but i want to talk about trimethylamine and inoxide which is produced
by the gut in response to choline consumption choline comes from red red meat eggs and
dairy and the more tmao we produce in our guts as a byproduct of these foods the higher
the risk for cardiovascular disease kidney disease obesity and myocardial infarction and what's
fascinating is if if you vegans do not produce tmao in the gastrointestory intestinal tracts
and we this is research has come out of the cleveland clinic and has been re reproduced in
multiples multiple studies on both high risk and low risk risk patient groups then we have
to start thinking okay that's a better argument all right you know talking about tmao and so forth
fine yeah you know i have no problem with that the problem the problem um comes because these these
studies look at meat eaters not carnivores okay so you know he asked us where's the carnivore
study that shows that a carnivore diet shows improvement in these sorts of things okay
where's your study that shows a carnivore diet causes harm because we don't have those studies
either okay we look at meat eaters we look at people that have meat in their diet okay and this
is again problematic with these epidemiological studies and these confounding factors because
you know we've been told for the last you know 40 50 years that eating meat will kill you
especially red meat will kill you and so you have you have a certain population who then says you
know what i'm gonna do this because i enjoy it and i want to do it so screw it i only have one
life well a lot of people with that mentality also smoke drink you know you know do extreme
sports and all these sorts of things they're more likely to die in a car a car accident they're more
likely to speed more likely to do different things that are that are dangerous because they say screw
it i've only got one life i'm going to enjoy it and you know red meat got put into that category
of something that's super bad for you and they're like ah screw it so you have these people
that that is a confounding factor and that is something has to be accounted for okay
so when they control for those things you know that you know meat eaters are more
likely to smoke they're more likely to drink the more likely you do all these sorts of things
when you control for that and you and you sort of uh correct for that you actually don't find an
association with any of this crap okay so again where's the study that shows that carnivorism
caused about not meat eating with all this other crap going on but carnivorism and
okay so and and so for the microbiome your microbiome is going to be very very different
depending on what you eat it changes basically daily okay because your what you eat feeds your
your gut biome okay and so if you eat different things you're gonna have a different biome
okay so it depends on what bacteria you have you have specific bacteria that will break down
specific things into specific byproducts okay so if you have specific bacteria that
you know may turn you know these these um you know choline into uh you know a tmao
okay maybe all right are you gonna have that gut bacteria if you're on a carnivore diet do
that study where's your study showing that okay um probably not honestly i don't know because
we don't have a study but we don't know it doesn't matter though because if you're just
eating a carnivore diet you're not eating fiber fiber delays the absorption actually blocks and
stops the absorption and breakdown of the food that you eat this was the argument there's the
entire argument in the 80s on why you should eat fiber because it stops you from absorbing calories
it has no nutrition it feels like you're full and it blocks your body's ability to absorb food
how would that arise in nature that that's like a good thing for survival and starvation
i mean that doesn't make any damn sense but that was the argument when it was all fat
busters gotta lose weight lose weight lose weight all these sorts of things um okay but what are
you doing you're stuck you have these big tangles of fiber that you cannot break down no vertebrate
animal can break these down it's actually special bacteria in the guts of things like you know of
herbivores that can break this stuff down okay we don't have those okay there's something you can
get some of those in your large intestine they don't exist before that um so you get these big
tangles okay and you know these food particles are stuck in these tangles enzymes can't get to
it and they can't get to the you know the this um you know the borders of your of your small
intestine and aluminum your intestine and so forth so they can't get absorbed okay so these get
taken into the large intestine where bacteria are and these then you know cause these problems so if
you're not eating fiber your body's gonna absorb all this stuff very little of that is going to
get if any is going to get you a large intestine we know this because we've studied this with
people uh with stomas you know you remove part of your intestine you have this bag the fecal
matter comes comes out in the bag and we look at this when people are not eating fiber and they're
eating you know animal protein and so forth almost none of it comes out okay but when you're
eating plant proteins a lot of it comes out this is how we know about bioavailability of
of you know meat-based proteins versus plant-based proteins okay that's part of you
know why we know that plant-based proteins don't have a very high bioavailability and that
meat does okay so if you're not eating fiber you know and you're not eating plants at all
you may not even have the right bacteria that will turn the stuff into tmao okay but either way
you're not eating fiber so you know the majority of what you're eating is going to get absorbed so
it's not even going to get to the large intestine to be introduced to the bacteria which may
not even exist anyway okay so there's that thinking about outcomes because it's fine to
reduce think about what we see then it's fine to think about biomarkers but how can we show a
plant-based diet can reduce both cardiovascular event rates and and malignancy and these are
the only dietary pattern that has shown to reduce uh obesity and we do know
some people think they can lose a lot of weight on a ketogenic or or can't
carnivore diet and perhaps some people do so you'll have a thinner coffin when you die and
you'll be if you be this you'll be there sooner um okay so i mean he literally just contradicted
himself okay he's saying there's there's no st there's no diet that you know shows that you
can get weight loss you accept a vegan diet oh i mean i guess you could with keto but uh you're
just gonna die okay well does it make you lose weight or doesn't it okay and again you know what
vegan diet what kind of vegan diet are you doing the oreo cookie cookie and heroin diet that's
vegan meth is vegan okay just means no meat right rocks are vegan okay so you
know you know define your terms here you know just any old vegan diet no obviously not
we know that you know but then you're saying oh nothing else has been shown to do this except for
vegan diet oh except for all these other things too but uh you don't want those okay well you know
you're not really helping your own argument here um we know that vegan diets significantly
improve improved dyslipidemia we know that they reduce hypertension we think again who
gives a [ __ ] about dyslipidemia who cares about your cholesterol when you're not eating
sugar you're not eating uh you're not drinking alcohol and you're not eating a bunch of
carbohydrates to jack up uh your blood sugar okay you know if you're if you're one of
these people that are you know you know drinking alcohol eating sugar eating carbohydrates
and so forth you know statin might help you you know because you you do have you know uh
you know this disease process this inflammatory process that's going on okay you know maybe that
will help that would be an interesting study if you distinguish out those sorts
of things okay um but yeah otherwise i really don't care about cholesterol as a
doctor and as a patient like i just don't care we think about one of the most common causes of of
stroke and heart failure in western world it's uh it's it's hypertension we know that a vegan diet
predictably you know improves improves diabetes and and also in also a heart and also
heart failure okay so one of the most um one of the the diets that we have the most uh
data on and conclusive evidence on for helping diabetes actually is the ketogenic diet we've
been using that for well over a hundred years and we using the 1800s to stabilize diabetics
blood sugar and so forth okay so there is just a ton of evidence you know showing a ketogenic diet
if you're diabetic especially type 2 diabetic type 1 as well you really don't want to eat
carbohydrates you really don't want to eat sugar you know so that that is very important for that
so and again you know oreo cookies not going to be good for a diabetic hypertension sure hypertension
is is a killer but you know i i'm you know we have no study showing that a carnivore diet increases
your blood pressure none okay and i have dozens of patients right now on a carnivore diet
i've spoken to hundreds of people over the past few thousands really and there's you know people
in you know carnivore groups and chat group things like that where we talk about these sorts of
things you know you know rivera health is a really good one for that there's different facebook
groups as well um you know dr baker has has helped tons of people we're not seeing blood pressure
be an issue in fact we're seeing people get off their blood pressure medication my father's had
you know intractable blood pressure problems for you know for yonks he doesn't anymore that's very
stable now you know i've been eating this way for you know i've always been heavy meat eater and
i've basically been a pure always basically been in pure carnivore i eat everything else by
sufferance but you know for about the last 20 years i was really full on for a solid five years
and then sort of slipped off was eating little bits and pieces of things here and there and for
the last you know five six years absolutely not anything besides meat salt water okay i don't
have any blood pressure issues okay and you know my patients don't have blood pressure issues on a
carnivore diet either okay and i've never heard of that i've never heard of someone going carnivore
and having a blood pressure issue um simple reason why physiologically humans are carnivores that's
the kind of animal we are that's how we develop that's how we evolve so you know you know you go
to first principles we're not going to have these disease state processes if you're eating naturally
you know you know elderly lions don't you know probably don't have a bunch of blood pressure
issues if they're just you know still eating meat okay that's an abnormal pathology that
comes about when eating the wrong thing there are multiple studies published in literature
in large peer-reviewed literature especially in study in journals like the journal of american
party cardiology journal which shows the more serving of animal foods you have the greater the
chance of heart disease with 4.8 million million person years and one of the most important studies
is that for every cat when even if we replace a small amount of animal protein with plant protein
we can show a significant reduction not only cardiovascular disease but cancer you know it's
no point treating everyone with heart disease only for them to die of many many many years later
okay again so you get these these associations you know you know correlation is not causation you
know and again these these epidemiological studies are saying that like you know this um you know
meat eaters what does that mean that does not mean carnivores that means someone who eats meat
and also smokes and drinks and drives too fast okay but i don't know which ones he's quoting
there they've done tons of these over the decades but the recent ones corrected and controlled
for those sorts of things they didn't even find an association with eating meat and these
poorer outcomes okay um so you know again like you know and you know i don't know what
study he's referring to where you're replacing some you know animal protein with with you know
with plant protein and that improves some things somehow i'd have to take a look at the study and
have to know what he's talking about there but um it sounds pretty suspect honestly because
it doesn't make any damn sense you know if that's the only thing that you're changing in
that system and again this is going to be a system eating you know the sad diet you know standard
australian diet standard american diet things like that with a bunch of other crap in it
okay so it's not the meat that's doing this show me a single study showing me showing
that you've controlled for everything else except for meat and meat is the problem show
me one study that says that there are none and we do know that people that adopted a
plant-based diet had significantly reduced reduced malignancy rates um 30 seconds jason 30 seconds
30 seconds so i'd like to sum up that a vegan vegan diet is what is the only dietary pattern
that in a western society has shown a reduction in the main in in both the incidents and allows
us treatment for the major diseases that reflect western society and is sustainable for us for our
planet for for our population and for our patients to follow okay so sustainable for the planet
that is absolutely incorrect um when you grow a crop you necessarily have to destroy an entire
ecosystem you have to just you have to bulldoze and destroy all the plants kill all the plants
kill all the animals rip up the ground till it up and then you know plant your crops okay and crops
well just any plant in general they take nutrients they get their nutrients from their soil right
what puts the the nutrients back in animals so when you're having an ecosystem you have plants
and animals living in symbiosis where you know they each nourish eat and help each other
okay so you know animals will be eating the plants and then they'll their their excretions
and so forth will then replace those nutrients back into the soil okay and that is what is
what nourishes that replenishes the nutrients in the soil okay and that's what keeps plants
growing again um tons of people have done this um alan savory who's out in zimbabwe he's been doing
this for 40 years or something like that taking large herds of animals moving through deserts
moving through mines like strip mines and things like that and actually because those animals are
there all of a sudden these things are able to you know regrow the soil re-neutral um you know
re-nourish the soil and all of a sudden they're growing just massive massive massive amounts of
vegetation and so forth forests are coming back you know then new animals will come back through
you know and start migrating there and so forth um it's massive changes um you know dr peter
ballista was very interesting guy you should look up his stuff i'll try to put some some
links to these guys in the in the description uh but you know he's a phd in forage agronomy i've
i've spoken to him you know just personally i was very interested in his work so i emailed him and
we ended up having a you know discussion over zoom very interesting guy very bright guy really
shows the science behind how important animals are to the environment think about it this way
during the dust bowl in america during the 1930s um you know no one could grow anything we
had dust storms all these sorts of things everything was horrible we then figured
and it was running into a desert it's turning to like the sahara desert right um
which is man-made by the way look it up and we figured this out this was actually the farming
techniques okay um and we realized that you know this is when you you're tilling the soil you're
making large rows of this stuff it rains it washes all the topsoil away wind hits it picks it up
blows it all away okay so you're losing all these top soil all this top soil we're able to change
things around to mitigate that but we still lose billions of tons a year in 2017 we lost 27.5
billion tons of topsoil okay that's an area of the size of kentucky okay which is the
size of you know a european country okay so you know that that's a finite resource as well
you know it takes you know uh 500 years to grow a centimeter of topsoil okay that is going to run
out a lot quicker than we realize okay and so you know that's a big problem and you know where
do these fertilizers come from for crops they come from animals they come from livestock okay
they come from their manure you know they talk about they talk about you know animals you know
uh all day if we if we just weren't growing all this you know like you know corn and things
like that for you know animal feed and stuff like that you know we we'd have more than enough
food and blah blah blah blah blah that's nonsense the the feed that they give to to animals is
like hey how much hay do you want to eat exactly okay they're eating the parts of the plants that
we cannot eat that we cannot digest 92 percent of the feed of the the crops grown for um for
animals for livestock is inedible by humans it's the leavings it's the waste okay so it's like you
know the shaft of the wheat and things like that we can't eat that that's given to cows okay and
they eat that their manure replenishes the soil okay so this is nonsense and you know helping
the like that is just nonsense you know so i can go to that and other things but watch peter
ballista watch alan savory you know you he did uh um several youtube talks and he had a ted talk
as well quickly about you know the sahara desert that actually wasn't a desert several thousand
years ago okay before the agricultural revolution that's what changed things in my opinion i i think
that anyway i think the evidence is there you know the the um the pyramids and and sphinx we had soil
samples done in the 1990s that actually looked and found that you know they were like oh these
always desert people i found no actually these were these were built in jungles these were jungle
people these were jungle pyramids okay but they had widespread farming that sort of grew around
that time and you know you know in the bc era and it turned things to desert because they
didn't figure it out you had the nile river which flooded every year and the silt would
replenish the nutrients we learned this as kids and we don't think past that but what does
that mean that means that the nutrients needed to be replenished every single year where all
the places that didn't have a nile river they didn't get replenished they couldn't grow
things after that turned to deserts we have satellite images infrared satellite images that
actually showed that there's like human you know human habitation all across what is now the
sahara desert you know like you know structures and things like that you know the the you know
the bones of a structure and civilizations and things like that that was not a desert okay these
things were made by agriculture by crops okay not animals the animals are what kept these things
alive okay that's what keeps the environment and ecosystem alive okay so i think that's
that's probably enough for that one sorry that i had a lot to say about that i'll do i'll do
the other um the other participants as well because i think there's definitely things
to address there uh in other videos um this one was mostly surrounded by um you know with
the cholesterol debate and i think that that's something that's very very important because
that's central to this discussion on plant-based versus you know meat diets and carnivore vegan
and and so forth being the extremes of that but it's something that's very very important
something i have patients and and you know friends and colleagues going what about
cholesterol what about cholesterol what about cholesterol okay so you look like you're
in good shape you know you look like you're healthy and all your bloods and everything
like that show you're very very very healthy but what's your cholesterol doing i'll tell
you what my cholesterol is doing i don't give a damn i know what my cholesterol is but i don't
give a damn okay it's actually basically normal but i don't give a damn if it's high it's
physiological whatever it is it's physiological because i'm eating in an evolutionary
biological species specific way and so whatever my cholesterol is whatever my bloods are
doing they're supposed to be doing that you know we have these blood markers and these these
studies and these standardized tests that we use that are predicated on lies okay so we need
to rethink these and we need to get different reference ranges and so forth to to tell
us what's actually healthy and what's not okay all right guys well i hope you enjoyed that
i'll be doing further videos uh every week i'll probably be a little more than that as well
sometimes i'm starting a podcast as well with a friend of mine uh simon lewis uh called how
to carnivore with the plant for emd that's me no plans um and i'll do more of these uh rebuttal
sort of videos as well i'm sure they'd like to do vermont i think that would be great i would
love to have a conversation with these guys you know one-on-one maybe even over a video on uh
on podcasts and because i'm sure they have i mean things that i said and we said i'm sure they had
tons of things that they wanted to say about that and that's how you that's how you work
this out you both talk back and forth you say well you said this however i've seen this
study and looked at this what about this and they say the same thing back to you and you have a
discussion and i think that that's a very healthy thing to do i think that's really the best way to
to come to you know some sort of conclusion that you know maybe not maybe you guys you know when
i'm walking away saying you're going to agree to disagree but you know other people can take away
a lot from that and hopefully we can set that up in the future all right guys if you can like
and subscribe and share this with people that would really help i'm just getting the channel
started and and you know obviously that that is helpful when you do that so uh click the little
bell and you'll see more of my stuff thanks guys