The Power of Regenerative Living: A Conversation with Charlie Arnott

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an advocate for regenerative farming and wellness practices welcome Charlie so I'm in lovely to be to be with you this evening likewise I will just add that Auntie Chaffee will be joining at some point but he got held up in an appointment so he may spring in but for now you've just got Charlie and I so uh Charlie let's sort of start at the start uh you were what you'd call a conventional farmer um and in your words you'd go out and kill things every day with chemicals what was it that made you change your perception and your way of farming in life uh Simon it was it was a it was a series of I guess many things um uh some were quite you know short and sharp and some were a lot more drawn out I guess there were generally uh it was the realization that my behaviors as a conventional farmer which I as you said you know running out killing stuff every day um a lot of resource use or using nature um uh a lot of um I guess behaviors which were um I like to look back on and see were very destructive generally you know whether it was killing killing plants animals plowing um you know uh ignorant of the importance of soil health and soil to support my business and you know growing food so a lot of those behaviors were not congruent with my values you know and I didn't actually know what values were I mean what values were um uh in Broad terms that I had never really sort of sat down and worked out what my values were as an individual um until a certain point when I was doing some you know some training some some workshops with um with RC RCS Australia resource Consulting service Australia and we identified values and it was pretty clear that my behaviors in pretty much no way at all were aligned with my my values so that was a big one um visually and I was saying I was saying paddocks that when when were bare renewed you know were unsightly were were not you know we're not uncommon you know that was a pretty common sight especially in drought but um one particular instance was I thought I saw a paddock very clearly I can really clearly remember it very vividly you know Blown Away um it was a beautiful bassot soil I had pretty much beared it out with sheep and it was leaving out like that Paddock and leaving this country probably on the Wind to New Zealand so yeah that struck me as being a pretty irresponsible thing and really it was around that same time I realized that I was pretty much in control of that you know people say oh to drought and you know that's just what happens but there's a lot of you know you could argue that certainly a lot of things we were doing were man-made like drought drought was induced with our management and so there was that there was some probably mental health um not really you know full-on mental health sort of stuff but it was just like again you know when you when you when your behavior is not congruent with your values that can be really challenging and um and I was you know I I was really challenged to look at things a different way I'm a very curious kind of bloke in the first place so I kind of was always even with a conventional farming we were doing things differently we did a bit of no-till we used chemical shearing on sheep you know we were quite experimental a lot of things so we just sort of chemical sharing what's that well you basically inject we did an experiment oh well we we won't do any experiment with the pharmaceutical it wasn't that sort of experiment we were just curious to see how this went compared to normal shooting so you inject sheet with a chemical um I think you do it once and then a week later you do it again and you actually have to put these so basically the wool releases from the follicle and you put this big netting sock over the Sheep and after you do this the first objection Anyway by the time that'll you know probably a week or so 10 days goes by you basically just peel the salt the The netting off like a sock the wall stays on that and they're they're there and they've had just enough time between the injections to grow tiny fuzz of wool you know so um but God knows what it did to the sheep and then people went eight to eight days sheep you know so um so back to your question yeah look it was it was it just it just came a time when I I didn't want to do a lot of those things I was doing anymore so um with a bit of Investigation a bit of pushing and shoving um the odd drought thrown in there I just decided I'd look at other things and the thing that really pushed me out of the line was the course called um it was a one day course very simple one day course called profiting from the drought and um I saw that in the local paper thought it was a joke turned up had an amazing day um and this the facilitator asked me at lunchtime um in a break you know we're talking about the day how's it all going what do you think and he said and they're happy and I said well I'm not unhappy which is a pretty crappy answer so um that was the beginning of my journey I think really was just like well what I've got to lose you know um uh uh you know it wasn't all you know um clear sailing from then on either there's plenty lots of lots of ups and downs on the way and um but it was you know pretty I wasn't I didn't need much convincing that I needed to change and and that's and that's what we did when I bring up regenerative agriculture or biodynamics or this sort of way of farming like invariably people say to me oh that's you know that's cute oh that'd be great on a hobby Farm um you know but how does that how does that scale up how do you really feed people with these more natural processes did you have any of those doubts and if you did how were they kind of you know how did you get around them what what inspired you to really give it a crack well I was pretty sure that we could just convert what we were doing you know we still have the same amount of land um we were still going to get the same amount of rainfall yeah that it's out of our control um I didn't know I I was it was a bit of a gamble because I went I went cold turkey you know which I wouldn't in terms of chemical so I basically you know I did there was a there was probably one or two sprays in our last couple of crops in that in that last year that I just didn't do I went like I was down Australia that on things yeah because I knew what was going to happen that way it was going to be harvested and then sold to someone and someone's gonna eat it so kind of when I got my head around all that I I really um yeah I didn't want to be responsible for that and so um uh it was it was really uh an Act of Faith in some ways but I also knew that you know so we didn't we kept all our cattle you know we just managed them differently we kept all our sheep we ended up selling a lot of our sheep too just to so we can graze our country a bit softer I'm doing it a bit differently we've got shoot back on now um so you know we stopped cropping so there were some things that we changed you know immediately things we sort of slowly wound ourselves off um so I wasn't too worried about from our point of view being able to still produce you know a food we weren't cropping anymore so we weren't producing wheat and canola and those sort of things happy not to given you know as I sort of as our chemical regime increased every year and our input costs you know increased every year um for that so um so from our point of view on Farm you know we still produce a lot of meat you know and and lamb and mutton um that's our main income from the farm um and in terms of like you know how that fits into the bigger picture I guess you know it's a it's a figure that's that's thrown around a fair bit that um uh you know 70 of the world's food is produced on a five acre five five or less acres of land you know plots um and it's a lot of it's you know pretty basic farming but it's it's feeding a lot of people now you know the other 30 that's a lot of industrial industrial farming and um I don't think anyone who says oh it can be done um and supports the idea that it can be done much more naturally and to a large extent I don't think any of those people uh just you know saying can be done tomorrow is obviously a transition it needs to take place like whether it's an individual Farm or a whole industry um but you know there's I I'm a firm believer that then it will take changes of habits not just of those producing food but those buying food um it's going to change it's going to take some changes in the in the in the whole food system um but just because that might be quite clunky and may take some time you know it's not a reason to to to think oh that's good can't be done because it is being done you know and it's um it's just it's just gonna take take a while but it's just it's individuals farmers who are deciding as a business and a family to change their practices and I don't have to do it immediately as I said it's just like winning yourself off some chemicals changing your Enterprises a bit working more with nature having a different attitude um that's that they're all significant changes and they're all I reckon they're all positive so um I think it's just convenient for people to say oh it's not possible because you know they've either got vested interest so I just don't have a they're just ignorant of what that actually needs and for some people if they haven't seen it happen before they just assume it can't be done that's right I mean it is interesting you think about the amount the amount of so I'm you know I picked the United States because it's just huge and the amount of cropping land over there that's you know corn and sorghum and Wheaton God knows what else you know what's that going to grow and where how those people are going to survive well you know I don't know because I'm an expert in that but you know um if we stopped growing hole in a corn to turn into that Bloody corn syrup rubbish and you know if we stop you know growing corn to turn it ethanol to put into cars and you know so many things that we could just change I mean again easy to say harder to do but it's you know there's a lot of really sensible approaches I think that that we we can all can consider um but yeah it's not going to happen to my own as I said you know farmers can just just those small decisions you know that they make um looking at an alternative to fertilizers or working more with nature to con you know to to manage pests or it's even at the other end of the spectrum where the the eaters eaters are involved you know just making different choices and asking better questions and those sort of things that can have a huge impact when when I did your course at your farm and Brewer called intro to biodynamics one of the big themes that we spoke about was decentralization of the food system and uh you know instead of having everything reliant on you know the one Avatar and the one giant you know mono cropping Enterprise couldn't we all or couldn't there be more small farms that are producing enough a family or like or a community which you know I was very interested in and it it really does make a lot of sense because it didn't seem out of the question that you could have a pot of land you know land in the country land in Australia is expensive but land in the country you can buy you know if you drive four hours away from a major city it's not crazy expensive and you can run a small operation of say cattle well how do you you know and I know you've helped a lot of people get in to get into this game whether it's lifestyle or for like a business Enterprise how do you kind of recommend people get into having their own plot of land or their own crack at doing this themselves if you do recommend it yeah no I totally recommend it I mean and I I don't I don't recommend a particular um size or you know um or style to that I think people just if they if they're interested I mean which is great it's great first step um I think if you're in a family situation you know what might might motivate you is your sense of Consciousness around your children's health I think that's a big driver um you know thankfully in some schools uh I think all schools but some schools is you know Stephanie Alexander kind of kitchen Garden things going on I learned to cook they need to grow like come home they ask mum and dad why are they not growing their own broccoli you know those but that's they're a fantastic thing so um if children can motivate parents and ask them if children can ask better questions of their parents and that's you know caught the guild factor I don't know but that's a great motivated um I mean people have to be you know I guess obviously um realistic about what they can what they can grow and wear if they're living in an apartment in in Sydney or you know large large city then there's probably a little bit of balcony space if that and if they can't actually grout themselves totally get that maybe some basil in a pot on The Veranda that's that's a great start the Rosemary whatever you know um they're engaging with nature they're getting that biome on their fingers they're kind of you know there's some connection there um and if that's all they can do that's that's fine uh because if they want to do more and they can't grow more like go local farmers market you know which I know it's you know it's it's an obvious thing but I mean just that connection with farmers and taking the kids and kids working out the chickens come out of a you know chickens well chickens do I guess eventually but actually chicken's ass you know like just basic stuff like that that um the thing that might be on the airplane Used to Be Alive once upon a time and you know those have they're just wonderful wonderful things um and I guess as people you know the Verge on your The Verge on your street I've seen so many wonderful median ships converted into the garden and that you know so there's in there's the intention of creating food and converting something um putting some you know food on the table and but but the other lovely thing is that um g'day Anthony um the other lovely thing is that that creates Community you know because generally those verges are publicly owned or they're uh some Community sort of thing and I've seen some amazing um Community Gardens in the most strange places in Sydney for example uh that's fantastic if that's all they can do that's fantastic too and then there's getting out to country you know like onto Farms um going to a bionic Workshop get you know go online and scare the crap out of yourself with all the horrible things that will happen to you if you continue eating processed food I mean there's that push and pull there's the there is that Fear Factor um and you know that is that is a probably a greater motivator than the pleasure factor of feeling warm and fuzzy about growing around broccoli you know so um and I think you know again the motivation of children like do I want to be feeding my children processed food and then you know staring down the barrel of of disease or you know that old Joel Sullivan quote do you want to pay the farmer now the doctor later I mean those things are um uh that's significant and people need to hear that you know but I mean and it's all yeah just different scales of it I guess um Simon and um and I think there's there's almost no excuse at the end of the day there's really no excuse I know a lot of people say it's more expensive than um you know and it is you know per item I understand that but what I'd suggest is they also look in the shopping trolley or whatever items they've got in their shopping trolley you know like skip the all those eight aisles in the middle of the supermarket and go around the outside you know you kind of I just I think it's a bit of a therapy to say oh organic food is more expensive um in oscillation like if you don't boil the other crap um anymore you'll probably find yourself you feed your family um very well um for a similar on a similar budget and and your Health's gonna be so much better so um come and do a biodynamics workshop I'd also come I'd say that Simon yeah most welcome to join us at some point we might be in we might end up we might be in wa uh later the year and um just you know so many good Publications now there's you know there's plenty I don't watch my Instagram Media or TV really but you know there are some interesting shows on there almost like reality shows that are kind of put people back on farm and actually realize that that's where the food comes from and and it's just such a wonderful place to to be and to live and again getting their kids onto a farm eat some sheep fall over jump you know climb in a tree um pull out a carrot just and they you know there's very few kids who just don't love that sort of stuff and in some ways some of those kids who don't probably probably still be saved but I think you know that's their nature to like they're born it's like kids aren't born racist you know they they grow into that because of their environment their parents kids are born disliking food or not willing to go outside it's when parents say it's raining it's cold it's miserable don't go outside they just go well that's that's what you don't do but my God like my boy he's five five and a half I mean he is absolutely happiest with Barefoot with his dog in the garden or in the paddock and you know we've lost him a number of times um thankfully found him again because of his love of just you know he he just he's gone and um God knows what Adventures he's up to but it's just a lovely thing and you know I mean it's such a big I know I'm sort of steering off topic there Simon but it's it's I'm really you know um it's such a big thing there's so many threats to that it's like parents attitudes it's societal attitudes it's cultural it's you know um I read a book a cover a book the other day the Comfort crisis Comfort crisis have you read that have you heard of those books well I think I think I've seen this University but I mean the name says it all it's like we're all looking for comfort you know we don't really bother to go outside and forage for our own food you know all it's you know so it's a bit of a it's a bit of a bit of a pandemic isn't it of um of seeking comfort I I was reminded by something you said there about uh your feet you know pay your farmer now or pay your doctor later there's a similar adage in ancient Egypt that said a quarter of what you eat feeds you and the other three quarters feeds your doctor you know so even then thousands of years ago they understood that the things that you're eating are actually causing disease and harm and that's something that we we haven't lost sight of you know we still have these sayings we still understand this but we still haven't actually honed in okay what exactly are we supposed to eat and and not eat and now we're eating things that are brand new to the world that didn't even exist in in ancient Egypt and they already knew that the things that we were adding into our diet wasn't uh very beneficial so I think that um you know that's something to to keep in mind that you're right you know that a lot of these things are directly from eating the wrong thing and some of those things didn't they didn't exist last year I mean that's that's the scary that's a scary thing and all under the banner of saving the planet um and and you know it's healthier for you or that we should take it you know it's essentially saying well we should and I just offline talking to Simon there before about you know should we should we be happy to lose some of our freedoms to save the planet whatever that means you know and um and there's plenty of people who'd be happy to feed his craft in the name of saving the planet and thinking that's probably okay they would never admit to this crap but it definitely is you know so um yeah any topics yeah well I mean you know there's certainly the the argument on the other side that people said like Milton Friedman or Friedrich Hayek or tomasoa would argue that if you give up your freedoms you will you will lose the world you're not saving the world by giving up your freedoms that's exactly how you lose it that's exactly how you go into uh destruction and despair you know we saw this in different you know the USSR and in China I mean even just their their economic system was was less efficient and less productive and it hurt people and it slaved them and it killed them by the millions and and it all started with that same that same Noble concept of hey we need to give up some of our freedoms for the greater good it's all about the greater good and um unfortunately that doesn't work you know you can't you can't you can't give up um basic necessities and human rights for for the for the greater good I mean this is something that Hitler was talking about you know it's for the greater good all these things are doing he may have actually thought that he was doing the world of favor with all the things that he did and there's certainly uh you know more of that you know there are people talking about getting rid of the Nuremberg code because it's so restrictive and we need to we need to help people so we need to get rid of the Nuremberg code so we can help all these people it's like no the Nuremberg was put in place to keep well-meaning people like yourself the hell away from people because it doesn't go very well when you strip away people's freedoms and commit human rights violations in the name of their own safety and prosperity it's interesting that you know that we we're still challenged with that you know you know that's obviously been the big the big one that's a really everyone's alive well not everyone unfortunately everyone's but a lot of people's alarms went off um but we're still challenged that way aren't we you know it's not in the banner of well I guess some of these things are on the banner of socialism um but you know as you say out of the banner of um saving the health of the elderly or the children or the population or um in that case and and you know we sucked it up we we you know we didn't have any other reference point for it I guess we were just so used to our freedoms and we're so trusting and um before you knew it was like you know rubber bullets against citizens at the you know Melbourne warm oils like how ironic is that you know but anyway that's probably for another podcast yeah no we can go there yeah and then we were all canceled well you know I mean it all goes part and parcel you know you you either have this sort of collectivist sort of ideology that you know that there are certain people that have never met you that have nothing no idea about the inner workings of your life on a day-to-day basis but they because they're so smart and they're so gifted that they can understand how to make a one rule that will fit for you and everyone else in every different situation and I I just don't think that that works out when you actually try it out in practice it sounds nice uh if you could do it but in in reality things are much too complicated and they're much too uh individual every individual has so much that they have going on that is completely unique to them and no one else and you can't make a one size fit all rule for that and so allowing people to just live their life and make their own decisions no one's going to make a better decision for their own life than they will you know uh you know there are exceptions to that rule of course there are people that you know just don't care what happens to their life and they're just going to be very Reckless um but you know by and large people people you know no one's going to spend your money more or more carefully than you will and so if you have someone else spending your money someone else doing things and making decisions they may have all the best intentions in the world but that may not be you know what's best for you and especially when you're talking about billions of people you just can't you cannot possibly make all those decisions and when you separate that out and you go back to the individual household living on a farm that is purely independent makes their own food makes their own you know maybe makes their own clothes but it's completely self-contained and sufficient you know they are they are able to build a more structured habitable world because you have individuals that are very self-sufficient they don't need all these programs and handouts and things like that because they're they're self-contained and you have the more independent self-contained people that they're out there you don't need as many rules and safety nets and things like that because people are already taken care of and and that just builds that small community around that around those individuals and that gives larger communities and larger communities but it's community of individuals and that's the thing that people forget I think I saw Larry King once talking to uh Penn um you know Penn and Teller was a magician he's a famous guy in America plays in Vegas and things and and he's he's uh outwardly a Libertarian penis and he was talking to to uh Larry King about that and saying well look I think that you know the people in America they're able to to live their own life they're able to make decisions for their own life and and choose the direction that they they want to go in and the day-to-day decisions they want to make and Larry King just sort of cut him off and say look we live in a nation of 300 million people someone needs to think for the masses forgetting that the masses isn't some sort of crazy Beast that the masses are him and pen and me and you you know that's who the masses are but of course people don't people never think that they are part of the masses they think that obviously I can live my own life I obviously I have control over everything but all these idiots over here like well someone's got to be done about them but they are the masses and they're going to be sucked into this whole thing uh just like all the rest of us and that's that's what they don't realize it's interesting because I saw um which one's the tour guide those two uh that would be pen the taller guy pendulum oh yeah he was I mean I I I've seen talking about you know things and this is going back a few years I think before no he was he was very very um I guess it's slightly different context because different reasons but in my mind it's all pretty much the same sort of thing he's very Pro you know he was he was very anyone who didn't anyone who didn't you know their children is is a is a criminal basically I remember seeing a very very and it was almost it was it was it was quite graphic in terms I had all these demonstrations and whatever else is a very visual but um man having watched that I I you know I just thought he must think everyone who doesn't believe in what he does is an absolute idiot like that was just the way it's like you know you don't do this you're a you're an absolute twice but anyway um I digress uh yeah but I mean he's talking about Larry King I mean you know he's a prominent you know um commentator you know you've got to think you know are they are they put up to that sort of stuff is that you know are they are they driving that sort of stuff for a reason is he just ignorant um is he just saying it for the for the for the lessons and the you know the the um the pushback I don't know I mean it's it's interesting that you know how especially in in what happened in those last couple of years seemingly very intelligent people um and often in positions of of power and influence just um had very fascinating their view on on all that and um uh look you know again that's that's the way it is that's the world is made up of different people and think what it is so but you know I just you think if they do you think if they tried on again we're going to all be not all if you think that it's going to be is um uh as much of a pushover I I would hope not I mean it's um it's um you know it's one of those things that like you like you said we did we didn't know what was going on we didn't know what to expect so people were just trying to make you know decisions as best they could at the time now maybe people were maybe using that to their advantage you know I'm sure that happened in some cases but I'm sure there was other ones that were just they were just earnestly trying to do the do the right thing and then try to deal with the difficult situation but it was all ad hoc I mean it was just completely uh random every country did different things but then I think the problem came you know trying different things and and trying your best fine but the problem I had was when data started coming back after a year or so on the different countries that had different methods and there were clearly different results and some were better and some were worse that people didn't then adjust and go okay well that didn't work well let's do what this other place did and that's uh that was a problem even just in America every state did something different every city had a different ordinance and so you had a lot of data you had a lot of experiments a lot of people doing a lot of different things and you could you could see very different results and uh and of course you know you would look at something and then you say oh well this proves my point and then of course it gets unproven by something else that you ignore and all that sort of stuff but so it's very difficult but I think that I think that a lot of people especially in this space who have seen that you know we've been misled about about food safety and about you know the food pyramid and all these different sorts of things about sugar being at least not dangerous um and uh and at least not a problem it could be just an empty calorie that was what it was said and that you know other things are causing driving these diseases you know like meat which you've been eating for millions of years and not had to issue the issues with heart disease that we have now um that people have seen that and seen this sort of the wool taken off their eyes to that and they think okay what who what else are they lying about and so I think that more and more people are coming to that conclusion that you know they can't just take the word of their uh of their government uh you know just based on their solely their word and which is good that's very healthy you know if you you know you get you you get too trusting and and you can get set up uh quite quickly and that's I mean Germany before night the 1930s uh was one of the most you know this is something people have looked at this they're actually one of the more tolerant countries it was one of the most advanced civilizations that had ever existed at that point they were one of the most racially tolerant and actually the most tolerant of of the Jewish people up until that point and and the Jewish people when Hitler tried to sort of push something and say something well you know the Jews did this I'm like hold on a second you got a lot of pushback and he had to sort of hide it a lot of the things that he did with the Holocaust was was quite yeah had to go through a lot of subterfuge he had the people that were you know the prison guards they were they were under penalty of death to talk about anything that they that they saw at those camps when they went home so it wasn't something that was just all the Germans were just these horrible anti-semitic racist people that just wanted people to go down like Hitler was and his his inner circle was certainly but that wasn't that wasn't necessarily the German people and so if they can be slowly worked and slowly turned into what you know into to you know what what happened in 1930s and 40s in Germany anyone can I mean anyone's vulnerable to this you know and everyone has to be very Vigilant that they're not getting slow walked you know down down this road again you know the Primrose path to Perdition and um you know it's uh you know every every you know the road to hell is paved with good intentions as they say and that was that was you know Nazi Germany was just like hey you know this is this is a problem we need to do this this is going to help this this is going to help these people this is going to help those people and it was it was an amazing marketing campaign and propaganda campaign um but it was but it was all a logical step from here to there and every little step led to something something worse so hopefully people are wising up to that now we've already had so many you know George Orwell uh Friedrich Hayek riding the road to serfdom and and uh Alexander solsenician just just demonstrating clearly how terrible and terrifying these regimes were and how so Insidious the advance into them were hopefully people are starting to say like okay well maybe we need to be a bit more careful now again I guess it takes if it doesn't to push back a bit like that reference to the Comfort crisis it's like oh you know I can just sort of suck this up and um and be comfortable and not you know offend anyone or or or have to kind of make an effort to justify anything you know they it's just um uh yeah it's it's gonna be an interesting reference point for the for the future and um uh I'm I'm watching and waiting for the next the next thing um but as you say Anthony you know Farms or people who can who can grow food who can make their own clothes who can you know we don't have to go back to the Dark Ages and live in occasionally but just those are going to be much more self-sustainable and create those communities of like Miners and that's something that I found in that whole show was the was how our social dynamics changed a lot you know we found out we found different tribes you know there were people that we kind of not even consciously we just said it had nothing in common anymore you know moved away from and others that you describe my God you know I never have thought and it was such a lovely thing and it was you know probably one of the one of the good things that came out of it was that realign and agree almost like a re a different filter system one that would probably not have been going to put in place before you know and actually you know everyone's everyone's um prejudices or or or opinions was was were out in the open I was like great this is a great opportunity to kind of cut to the chase who do I want to hang with who do I want to talk to who do I want to you know hang out with and what do they say the five people you know yeah you become the fire build you hang out with the most you know there's so many people I don't want to hang out with anymore because I just and it wasn't like oh you don't believe what I'm believing it that's not what it all it was more actually you know I can see where this is going and I don't know that that's that's a that's a the conversations I can have and they're not they're not they're not things that I can share with people so I want to share those things and have Community with people who I can relate to and it was it was it was a book it was a social experiment of sorts wasn't it yeah it was definitely an inflection point you know like it was uncomfortable but it really sort of yeah it was an eye-opener that's for sure um Charlie talking about food security I know through through your community I've been able to find farmers who will sell meat basically direct direct to the customer um and when I was when I was running McKenzie's meds people would email me all the time and say hey I want to buy a half a cow a whole cow how do I do it and I found people sort of through your community who who were willing to do it and they deliver it frozen and so it's been a pretty amazing service um I mean what what do you think about that as a sort of potential future of of food production and food delivery that that sort of befriend a farmer and and purchase direct from someone you trust I think it's the future I mean whether it's whether it's you know whether it's meat or any any food at all I think that's there's so many benefits is you know hopefully Financial depends on if anyone's getting ripped off and playing a fair price but I mean um you know if we can cut out those middlemen that's got to be a positive thing anyone who could be bothered to do to deliver meat or is even thinking about um you know supplying it Direct no one is doing that who is growing food right everyone is doing that you can guarantee they want that good food that they put their heart and soul into under your plate so that it becomes an automatic filter for who's doing the right thing or not the right thing but who's doing the doing good things so that's um that's positive and you know it's not just one way food goes one way yes money goes the other but there's also those conversations in them that happen I think I posted something on Instagram today um in my bloody stories there somewhere and um it was a quote from um uh uh is it Pluto or something like what's his name that play uh but I was until the story is rural society and it's so true you know like um uh it's the engagement between the person who's growing the food the person eating the food no stories of how they grew it and then there's the stories of the the joy that the families had eating that that meat or that beef or whatever that food I mean that builds communities and you know there's not one Society in the world that hasn't been the community as it hasn't been built you know on on on food and the production of that food and the sharing of that food and the and the reverence for that food and the ritual of the of eating food so I mean who who can get excited about going to supermarket buying a bloody steak in a you know wrapped in plastic you know generic I mean who's going to talk about that at the time but if you know if it's if it's bought from um even a butcher shop and that butcher's able to tell you where it's from or you bought a check from the phone there's a lovely story I mean if you're lucky enough you've gone to the farm to actually get it yourself um and a lot of those sort of yeah well a lot a few of those um um direct to Pharma Food Systems and direct to to eat a Food Systems you know the the the the guy that people are eating it the people have you know paid the money and got the beef they've probably even laid eyes on the animal it was alive and I think that's fantastic and that's great for kids you know you know that thing over there is alive and fluffy and cute it actually ends up on your plate that's gonna that's gonna feed our family you know that's that's going to give us joy and it's going to bring Community together I mean they're the lessons they've got to be learned I think in schools and that's that's a food system that teaches those lessons again go another Supermarket trying packets of stuff in a trolley what what are kids learning from that absolutely nothing if they're learning learning anything it's again it's that whole convenience thing I can just go to the shop and buy something and eat it and and for them it's like fuel isn't it it's like I just need to feel my body it's like you know they they need to know where it's from they need to know how it works in their body and they they need to um uh understand the you know the effort that's been put into it and actually value that food not in dollar terms because kids don't care if it's five bucks or ten bucks or whatever they just need for them to understand the value to them for their health and the joy it brings them and their parents and their and their friends I think that's it's so important so 100 um Simon it's it's it's it's there's so many you know there's an exhaustive list of benefits from doing that um and that I guess they're just a few but I I'm just such a big fan of it and um for those and many other reasons and that's why we do it you know we're selling our meat um through Integrity Meats at Goldberg at the moment a couple of guys you know Luke and Stu they sort of started up and got that cranked up and doing such a wonderful job and um providing good you know nutritious meat into into homes and the restaurants in Sydney and I love supporting that I mean it's a it's golden is Goldman is not double Bay right you know um it's it's it's um it's a you know dear I'm not down and out I wouldn't say that but it's you know it's not a very exciting country town but if it gives a you know it's got a fantastic butcher shop in there and there are good people there who are who obviously want that meat so um yeah no big big fan of that okay I get I Get Carried Away about it because I just I see I I kind of go to Sydney I go to the cities and I I kind of see the food that kids eat and it's bloody terrible you know and and um and there's not many you know it's not that Bloody hard I know it's easy for me to sit here and say it and I've got a freezer full of my own meat but it's you know it's just your parents can just get off their ass and care about their kids health then the game changes yeah is it is it um is it possible to actually go directly to a farmer I I thought there had to be some sort of intermediary that I have go through an abattoir first or something like that between you and and the farmer is that right yeah well yes you can do it there's two ways you can um you can do it the the well the right way or one way is if that farmer has had that animal um slaughtered and processed in a in a licensed facility like an avatar and then it goes through a license butcher to get broken down and then it's you you pay for kilos of whatever you whatever that is that's all about board and everything can be traced back and it's all done in a proper kind of a context and Facilities the other way that can be done is um where there's I mean the issue is a transaction of money okay so it's like you're paying for that you that's got to tick all these boxes now you made you may be a farmer who does a home kill and you have a relationship with people with family in Sydney um where in theory money doesn't change hands you know maybe you if you've bought the animal um before it actually goes to the process and the person who ends up eating it and paying for it actually owned it when it got processed that's fine too it's just got a farmer owns it and he's selling it to someone else that hasn't been processed properly that's where the problem is so um you know I Hazard to say there's ways around it and it gets people have to be sensible about you know where they're getting the meat from and so on but it you know it's again it's all about having trust and relationship building with with Farmers direct um and I mean you can even get butchers to to come on Farm like we we have our um our own butcher we have a love to have one butcher we have a fellow used to be but he's still a butcher I guess he just doesn't have a shop and he does kills for us um uh at a pretty handy facility down the road on a farm it's a license but it's got all the stuff there's no Trends you know we don't sell that lead to customers that car's now freezer and you know that's great but but yeah we share that with people they come here friends come here for dinner they even they you know they get it on their plate at the dining table or they take an Esky home of meat and that I mean it's such a lovely gift to give um have to say it's beautiful so yeah two main ways and there's the there's the legal kind of above Broadway and then there's the there's the um uh you know roundabouts yeah other ways Charlie way I don't recommend people do it the other one disclaimer that's right but I've heard it's going to be I've heard them yeah I mean that's what I did in uh in America because you could go directly to uh a Rancher and get something and they would uh you could go through a butcher and a butcher would Source it or you could go directly to a Rancher and then they would Source the butcher actually and so I found that that was that was uh much better I I mean literally it was it was half the price of just going to a butcher and having them Source it I did the leg work myself I got the cow that I wanted and uh I went for an older cow which I had heard was much more flavorful meat so I was like I want to try that and so I got a 10 year old cow best meat I've ever had in my life is like every day of this life it ate grass and it was 10 years old it was ABS hands down the best meat I've ever had I felt supercharged have you done that Charlie with the older cow yeah we uh not 10 years old um I'm not sorry we wouldn't but I just haven't um we've done probably four or five-year-old cows and absolutely you know and again as long as the the the sort of the the um the process is done um uh quickly and without any you know without any um grief and so on then you know in a paddock kind of situation absolutely you know that's um uh and that's the beginning that's the best place to do it you know how to go I don't know one day they're one minute they're eating grass the next they're they're not you know and um reducing that amount of stress um that's a really that's a really important thing I'm sure you know you guys know more than I do about the sort of the science behind that and the physiological kind of changes that take place with stress and so on but um if you can avoid that um and have it all happen where it lives I mean that's as you know again to quite Joel Sultan they you know um has has only one bad day in his life it's last day and every other day is wonderful so um but yeah that's interesting I'm glad to hear to hear that Anthony silver would have had nice beautiful yellow fat yeah um yeah and tasty hopefully a fat 10 year old cow not too skinny yeah unfortunately I didn't uh I didn't get to them in time and and stressed don't don't trim off any flat yeah I Want It All um so it was sort of it was sort of trimmed as you would find in a in a grocery store which is too much and uh but yeah you know deep yellow fat absolutely beautiful you know not really any marbling to speak of but the the flavor was amazing uh the fat was amazing and I I actually ate less I ate less of it I felt better and I was just I really felt energized when I when I ate this stuff I'm assuming it had a much better you know nutrient density profile and um but just the flavor just the flavor is just more beefiness I I did a taste comparison I had a New York strip uh there was like a prime prime cut so the fattiest cut you can get besides you know wagyu in America and and then just this this this cow so I had the same cut from each one I started with the the Prime Cut You Know big thick steak and it was just amazing I was like I love just eating meat this is amazing just love steak and uh had a bite of that then switch over the other one again it was absolutely amazing just love that had another bite had another bite had another bite and I was like all right I should I should try the other one again couldn't taste it could not taste the beef flavor it only tasted Rich because it had more fat but I could not taste any beef flavor it was it was completely overwhelmed by the by the the strong beef flavor it wasn't like like a like a bad like oh my God like gamey nothing like that it was just the beef flavor was much more pronounced and I thought it was fantastic and so it's uh yeah absolutely completely dwarfed the flavor of the uh the normal normal store-bought meat was the other store was the store-bought meat that would have been grain finished would it yes yes yeah and it was it was Prime grade so it was very fatty so very a lot of marbling yeah but pretty but you know that that marbling all guess the the the flavors in that fat are going to be governed by the feedlot that it finished in generally because that's where it's going to put on most of that fat isn't it and what's that what's in that ration you know a handful of different different um plants essentially and um nowhere near the the lifetime of diversity that that cow had probably been you know grazing on um you know I don't know where you know 10 20 30 40 50 different species contributing to the to The Taste and the complexity of that fat um I mean I'm I'm really not surprised I'm not surprised at all just another point just on you know doing home fuels and I think it's a lovely thing when you can do it you can do a home kill um uh uh is the the reverence that you can have or you know once I should have but one can have for that whole process you know that whole um uh acknowledging its life here that it's you know it's had a lovely life and it's contributed to the you know the functionality of that landscape and it's in a small way and um and it's life there we're a group we're lived and and having a very personal um uh well there's a relationship you know into that relationship you know that's that's it's easy it's a huge responsibility and much much nicer way to go I think than you know on a truck and into a into an amateur and uses another another animal so that's I guess another nice thing about doing home fuels is you have that opportunity to express um gratitude to the animal and what it's now providing in the form of nutrition and communion you know around the table and um opportunity for community and people to come together and you know it's it's lovely thing to acknowledge that yeah it's something we've we've certainly lost when we people moved into the cities and predominantly in cities now and no one no one has any idea where their food comes from and that's I think why you know this new generation of uh people are so you know entranced by the vegan vegetarian uh sort of movement because it does sound horrific to kill an animal and they have these these videos of like oh if you had to kill it yourself you would never do that you'd want to pet it and play with it and love it and you would never never do that well that's what people did every single day of their existence going back throughout to the dawn of man and then some and it's just we've forgotten that and we we've you know separated People Too Much from reality and so they're not they're not living in reality anymore and they think that not only can you get away without something suffering and dying for us to live but that we would actually benefit that our health would benefit the health of the world would benefit and these things are just not incompatible they're just incompatible with reality is is the fact of it you know nothing there's no such thing as bloodless meal something has to die for us to live and whether that's crops your animals are going to die uh to grow those crops I think there was a figure I saw yesterday 6.7 billion animals die every year in America to grow crops and that's not bugs you know that's uh that's sentient animals you know like you know yeah yeah exactly uh there's a there's a great there's a great book that you might have read on eating Me by Matt Evans um and in it one of the most poignant things that he says is um in in not in defense because I don't know we have to defend ourselves but I guess in the the putting putting forward the points of uh you know dieting out meat in our diets that uh and those who don't like meeting their diets or anyone else's diets um you know um their argument he said in Victoria um the rice growing industry you know destroys 30 000 ducks a year just just just so that people can have their their rice their vegan rice you know as an example a pretty hardcore one because it's not but it's not bugs and things in this case it's actually you know Birds a little bigger and fluffier and cuter um and that he makes his he makes his great point that the most significant impact we can we can if this whole thing is about suffering right if if this is about reducing the amount of suffering well to to your to your point uh Anthony about you know the billions of life forms that are you know annihilated for x amount of food and hectares and whatever else but um if it's about suffering then one of the one of the most significant things that we at least in Australia because that's what he was quoting and and you know the figures stand um one of the most significant things we can do in this country to reduce suffering is get rid of feral cats you know more hundreds of thousands of animals native animals and probably a few domesticated domestic ones uh not just killed but tortured every night and you know that's a lot of suffering um and if everyone's Fair income about reducing suffering then you know they could probably turn their attention instead of running around and going to farms and releasing chickens you know to fly freely into the into the world and so they don't don't have to suffer at the hands of horrible Egg Farmers in their free-range things and then get eaten by a lot of foxes um they'll be better off putting their efforts into removing you know feral cats out of any anywhere they can um that would have a much more significant impact on on reducing suffering and the interesting thing I don't know I'd love to have this conversation with someone one day is to have that you know that conversation around the cats um see if I actually own a cat you know because if they do do they you know does it stay inside the whole time is it contributing to suffering going outside and eating Willy wagtails if it's not then it's obviously stuck inside and that's probably not very good for anyway it's a bit cruel and then then find out what the cat's actually eating if it's eating biscuit no nuts well that's cruel because it's a cereal and that's killing it if it's eating meat well they're they're bloody Hypocrites so um anyone who's on that bear I may not quite throw anyone on that bandwagon then they shouldn't be they shouldn't be um any any you know cat dog I guess any other meat eating animals like that they shouldn't really have you know um so I don't know I I get I get pretty pissed off about that sort of stuff to be honest because I just it's can you tell but anyway back in that event it's such a good book and he's really I love the way he just he's really diplomatic about it he's not like that you know down with all vegans he's just really he's systematically just looks at all the issues and he's very been very methodical he's a lovely boat all right we'll put it we'll put a link in here to on eating meat sounds like a good one we introduced the the cane toads to kill the cane Beetle yeah yeah you've got some sort of disastrous animal that we can introduce that will kill all the feral cats [Music] having said that I've actually got a few cats uh we we have we have two cats here actually so they have bells on their necks or something no look they don't they don't and I don't I I dare say they contribute to the destruction of a bit of wildlife here um but look you know I like everything in life it's a bit of an offshore isn't it you think and not an obviously it's probably the wrong word I actually don't want the word offset because there's a lot of carbon it's a whole nother conversation but um animals yeah title counterworms but um uh you know as you said there's life is death there's there's compromises you know um in anything and look The Joy gives us and the kids you know I I think dare I say yeah a few Birds might get eaten uh but on the other side I think that what we do um we don't do that on purpose by any means um we don't relish the fact that you know some Wildlife probably does get um destroyed um but we can we are quite comfortable with the fact that we're probably doing a lot of other things that are contributing very positive to Wildlife so it's not like justifying it it's just going you know what in in the balance of things you know I think that's okay you know um they're not living I mean we feed them we feed them so as long as they're relying on the wildlife to to survive but um yeah those feral ones are a real problem yeah I was just going to say I have the same conversation with vegans sometimes when they say um when they say uh you know that we shouldn't be eating animals we shouldn't be doing this we shouldn't be killing animals just so that we can live and so I ask them the same thing uh you know sort of in a different way it's like okay so do we get rid of all predators then you know all the wolves or the foxes or the Lions all the Dolphins and fish and birds of prey and all these sorts of things and they always say oh no no no I mean that's just nature it's like right we're in nature too I mean this is this is just the natural world that we live in and then this is just that we're not outside of reality we're not outside of this planet we're not Gods we didn't just come here from the ethos you know from from The Ether and just like just appeared here you know we're we are animals we're of this world and these rules still apply to us and we are part of it just because we live in houses it doesn't make us all that special not biologically anyway and not to the realities of the world but I it's funny you're talking about like releasing things to you know get rid of the you know the cane Beetle and the cats and things like that I had a theory years ago when I was seeing so many people come into the emergency department and uh and they would they would literally pack bags they would have luggage and they would come in and uh they're like yeah well I'm just kind of feeling sick so I guess I have to come to the hospital for a while it's like they literally had a cold and they were just like oh I just like it just shuts down and they had luggage it was like look if you're well enough to pack two full suitcases you want them to be sick at home and so and some of these people were just like look no I I have to come in and I don't know they just wanted a vacation from their life or something like that and I kept like wondering like like how are these people I mean this person's 60 years old like how did you make it to 60 years old you know and and be and not not be able to cope with your own life so well like how have you not been eaten by Wolves by now and then I realized we don't have wolves so what we need to do is start releasing wolves into cities and like you imagine like the problems that would just go away like first of all like Fitness you know people just sprinting to their car from from the you know the restaurants and things like that you know and like if you had if you had to deal with wolves like you know like like all these little things that are just coming up I was just like oh well well there's this problem like the problem of the day you know like none of that would even make your radar it's like there are wolves outside better get in the gym yeah that's it perspective I'll get a little I'll get to learn and teach my kids how to use a speed a trap um you know because I'm gonna have to catch some of these these animals that they're they're hunting as well classic I love it I love that idea that that's that's that's that's a great listening perspective isn't it it's like maybe you know being five minutes late to something or you know not getting that like on Instagram maybe that doesn't mean quite so much to me anymore um yeah so bring on the wall so what will they have been here that have been um I think the mega foreign in Australia let's let's do some work and and uh I I hear that they're trying to recreate man it's in Russia somewhere so maybe you get some some Mega fauna um back out or bunyips get a few bunyips did you get bunions over there in Western Australia how great would that be to get mammoths out in Siberia you know I mean that's like a huge tracts of land that's just like no one's doing anything with and it just all of a sudden you just have herds of Mammoth running around that would be great make it bring it on I mean there's no you go if you rip down a few rabbit holes there like I reckon they'll remember saying not that longer like I'm talking you know a hundred years ago so yeah I mean we're not talking tens of thousands of years yeah yeah whether they're being docked it up or not but there's you know people suggesting there's photographic evidence of Madness you know so um yeah so there may be weren't but what a great idea it's like releasing the walls back into your last time maybe putting the madness back into the the tundra um not such a silly idea you know so but I love the I love the Wolves thing actually that's that's awesome yeah would be the least of least I'm just gonna go down the road to get this like no you're not because you know wolf yeah yeah no don't do it yeah well you know I was I was when I was in Bangladesh I was doing humanitarian work there in the refugee camps and I was talking to some of the people there who was a the guy there who's running the facility um and the charity that I worked with and he was a commander in the in the Bangladeshi Army as this place was very difficult place to live and to survive in and you know there's an actual genocide in Burma 200 000 people were killed in a month million people fled into Southern Bangladesh and they had these a million people stuffed in in actual Shanty like just tarps they had tents made out of tarps a million people living in tarps and so we're dealing with all that and trying to help these people and you know that was when everyone was talking about uh well this is when like microaggressions first came uh to the scene and you know what micro progression being well it's not you know it's nothing that's insulting it's never been considered insulting they didn't mean it to be insulting but I was insulted and that's your fault you know and so that's what a microaggression was and um I was trying to explain that to this this commander of the Bangladeshi Army and he was just he was just laughing he was like that can't be real what I was talking about accessibility yeah he was like no what no no that's not real now people don't think that because you know when you have your day-to-day has a very real threat of macro aggressions microaggressions just don't make the radar and so you know the you know people having the time to worry about some of these things is is an indication that their lives are truly blessed that they have they have no real issues to worry about so they have to find issues to worry about which is just our in our nature to be like there's something I need to fix you know that's fine I that's a noble sentiment but you know prioritize go out into the third world countries go out work in a refugee camp see what real problems look like and then come back and try to fix things challenge yourself get back that Comfort crisis it's just just too comfortable so they're looking for like well you know it's not going to look for something to get uncomfortable about but I guess it could be it should be it could be boredom I often refer to my grandfather my father my mother's father who he signed up from what I understand he signed up for the first award he's 15. he turned 16 on the boat over to the Middle East you know he took his horse took his saddle to his Bridle um he swag or whatever with all his buddies a few Brothers went as well but he was 16. 16 he went to another country like and with his horse and he could ride like a demon and um and fought over there and came up came home and that was a normal upbringing back then and then he then the second war came along if you wanted to sign up again they wouldn't let him because it's too old um but you know what an amazing man but also a generation where um that was okay and there's that really good yarn over about the boy who just very quickly um his father was I think his father was was injured in the first world war came back had been continually you know had to the ongoing injury was in hospital um and the father said if you can go out and he's his son was like 15 or 14 or something ridiculous 13 maybe so if you can plow that Paddock of mine 20 acres whatever it was back and then horse horse drawn player if you have you heard this story no no if you can play on my Paddock true story not a word of life if you can play on my Paddy um you can have you can I grant you whatever wish you want because because he was in Aussie and he couldn't do it and the boy went out got the horse and plowed up his Paddock for his dad went back he's had a doubt I've done the job and he said oh my God you know my boy you're amazing you can what do you want to do he goes I want to ride to Sydney this is in the gippsland right in Victoria on a ride to Sydney on my horse for the opening of The Harbor Bridge and that boy by himself got on his horse at age I have to find it was 12 13 14. it was ridiculous all the way to Sydney from gippsland in in Victoria bridge created a bit of a bit of a bit of a thing by that time I think and then and then and then rode all the way home again stopped at you know hotels and creeks and wherever he could throw this away down I mean the guy was like again 12 13 whatever like and that was that was probably not Not Unusual to be honest that was probably not unusual so yeah definitely gotten sucked gladio we're getting salted yeah and then but it's really interesting you know those who can who can I mean it's a bit like a cold therapy in a very small sort of a little you know boxes like you don't have to do that no I have to jump in that freezing cold bath but they choose to because they know they're going to get some benefit and they're happy to put up the short-term pain because they know that you know they're going to live longer they're going to be happier or all that cool stuff that happens it's it's just a very small example of you know when you've got balls to do it and you understand the benefit of doing it um the immediate benefits are long term it's like you're mad not to you know so um yeah so cold cold bath therapies or or riding a horse to to um Sydney Harbor Bridge I'm not sure what's worse actually those are those are I love those stories I have um my great grandfather on my mother's side actually had a similar story he was he was the youngest son of a you know wealthy family uh England and he just sort of looked at this and he said well I'm the younger son I'm not going to inherit to anything I could just live off the family money like a lot of other you know sort of you know the Gentry at the time did but he looked at those people and they were just like these guys are wastels they're losers you know they're just hanging out drinking all the time they're just they're nothing like I don't want that life I'm gonna go make my own way I'm gonna be my own man so at 14 years old he jumped on a boat for in 1850 jumped on a boat uh from England and went down to Brazil and started mining emeralds and made a fortune mining emeralds if I had 14 years old and then he traveled up through America I have a picture of him um when my grandmother has a picture of him um and that's it with the family of him in this he's already just a made man and he's in this white like Mark Twain suit and in 1856 he's he's looking there you know 16 years old in New Orleans on way to San Francisco and then Australia and then came down to Australia made another Fortune mining Opals and then went up and and uh and uh mined gold up in Alaska and so he had three three self-made fortunes and then went over and uh got into uh you know like Stock Exchange sort of things that he was involved in Commodities exchange and things like that after that it was just a landed gentleman after that and uh but yeah 14 years old just said you know what I'm gonna be I'm gonna make my own way and and people did that I mean I'm you know now you would you I mean you wouldn't even allow your child to go on an airplane at 12 or 13 or something like that let alone ride a horse hundreds of miles thousand miles or so uh you know through you know Bushland rangeland and live off the land and and just go to you know see a bridge and then come back I mean I mean Jesus like you wouldn't most most kids don't have aren't allowed to go to the bus stop by themselves you know anymore so but I've yeah we've been fantalized you know the the entire world at this point when you look at how the rest of the world lived forever you know people grow up a lot faster than they than they do now and some of those people in their 30s can't do that sort of thing 100 it's a bit sad my one of my favorite quotes um is our job as parents used to prepare our children to leave us and um I remind myself of that every day in just pushing the kids into situations yeah what does Jordan Peterson say um dangerous play safely you know let them play you know dangerous kind of things um that in a safe way you know yes it could be it could be disastrous it could you know not be hopefully fatal but you know you've got to learn those boundaries they've got to have the scratches they've got to fall out of the tree and that's I guess where that's where it learns and you know that kid and you know he learned to ride a horse when he was probably four and he learned to plow that thing with his dad this is such a beautiful um Sam Neill read it out a couple years ago it's I have to find a partner without a plow a Plowman it just reminded me um how the boy the boy would tag along after his father his father's got the plow on the horse and his boy would run after him you know because his dad and he's a hero and he wants to know how to do it and his dad shows him and then as the time goes by then the boy takes hold of the plow as he grows and his dad's watching him and then you know and then as time goes by the it's it's the it's the the sun has turned to a man and his father's the one who can't quite keep up with him when he's plowing because he's the old and it's such a he gives me goosebumps it's such a lovely lovely poem um just remind me about the playing but that's what it is it's like you know that beautiful relationship and Father's teaching sons and mothers teaching daughters and how to do basic stuff knitting sewing Bushcraft my my daughter's 12 and she's out there crafting a topic like a maniac the other day I only showed her a couple of times and then she's like cracking it left hand again look at me dad I mean okay that's that see that might be quite handy when the wolves come along Man City maybe that's that's that's the thing so I mean that's that's not going to Save a Life potentially but yes those things it's like you know that that's character building stuff you know that's really character building stuff so um yeah love it love it well Charlie this has been brilliant where can people learn more from you um well they can jump on Charlie my website we've got events there um we've got some bionic workshops happening here at hanumino in a couple weeks time we've got one in South Australia we're hopefully getting to wa later of the Year we're in Queensland New South Wales it's almost there we've got accommodation here at the farm as well as of um in a couple of weeks time we'll be opening the doors to little planes which is a big old Federation Homestead that um we want people to come and stay and explore and do some farm tours and um you know eat our beautiful meat and other things and um on Instagram and all those things so yeah and I'm actually I've got a webinar series um coming up in I think it's starting July six weeks it's called your regenerative Journey um and I've got plucked out some of the six you know experts in different fields of regenerative farming and regenerative living um over six weeks one per week and we'll have that online in a couple of weeks time for people to book in um and so that's our next sort of step and then there's some other projects we're working on but get on the website there and check out what we're doing uh the podcast the regenerative Journey podcast I was going to mention that yes so that's starting again May um season seven starts again in May in a couple of weeks very good very very good yeah I'll look alright thank you so I I really enjoy doing it I'm honored that I could get to talk to people um and hear their stories and and sort of you know put that out in the world so we've got some interesting ones coming up there in that season Nicole Masters has won um uh who also forgot their um Shanna Juan from uh sober in the country so we're just not about farming we're about regenerative living and regenerative health so um some good guess on season seven that's probably it Anthony that's that's probably enough type pumping up my own tires for for one night but um really enjoyed my chat with you guys that's awesome um I'm glad we just didn't talk about you know meat and farming um because I think it's there's so much more around it that actually puts you know Health into context and I think health is you know comes in so many different ways and we can be healthy or not um as a consequence of so many different things so love your work both of you and um uh yeah looking forward to to catching up with you both in person somewhere sometime absolutely yeah well and thank you very much I really appreciate you you coming on and then just giving us your time that's uh yeah I'm sure you've got much better things to do so I really appreciate you uh spending that with us well when I what might be much better in spending time with family that's pretty important but I do have a rack of lamb waiting for me in the kitchen uh of our own our own our own lamps I'm looking forward to that beautiful all right thank you so much Charlie see you guys awesome thanks for the chat