The Diet and Training Fix Everyone Must Know

Welcome to the Plant Free MD podcast with Dr. Anthony Chaffee, where we discuss diet and nutrition and [music] how this affects health and chronic disease and show you how you can use this to optimize your health and happiness both mentally and physically. All right. Hello everyone. Thank you for joining me for another episode of the Plant Free MD podcast. I'm your host Dr. Anthony Chaffee and today I have a special guest Mr. Jacob Lohman. So Jacob, thank you so much for coming on. It's good to see you. You too. Thanks for having me. Yeah, yeah, of course. Well, okay. So for people having come across you before, can you tell us a bit about yourself? Yeah, so basically I am a an 18-year-old athlete who's living in Denmark right now and I've been on carnivore for around 4 months now. And it basically started like I took the um the order that the usual order where you first you may you remove the junk food, then you the sugar and then I got into fasting try having some 2 days fasting 20 24 hours all of that and then I came to keto and then slowly went carnivore with um with lots of dairy and then I removed the dairy and now I'm I went beef butter and eggs and now I'm trying the lion diet where I feel like I feel most optimal just me basically. It's good. So what what what made you want to change your diet and and the way you were eating in the first place? Yeah, so I'm always like my goal is long-term goal is to become basically the world's best handball player playing handball. And the way to get there um diet is very very important for that. So before I went to fasting and removing the sugar, I basically had on my on my chat GPT I was writing like give me the most optimal diet and it was like pull all of these groceries and the vegetables and I said rate them 1 to 10. Now basically just try to make the best diet ever. So that was my main goal to look for what was most optimal and always be open to see the next level and system also basically. Okay. And so so what have you seen in your in in that sort of evolution of of the way you've been eating as far as how you've been feeling and also your athletic performance? Yeah, so on the on the regular food pyramid diet I I remember always after eating I felt like [ __ ] like I had big pasta big uh pasta ketchup all of that and I felt I felt very terrible and yeah, I didn't feel good and it was like I was looking at my chat GPT and I it said you're eating the best diet you can right now. You you can't optimize it and I was still not feeling good and also like um my gym performance I wasn't really getting stronger. Yeah. Yeah. And then so now that you're doing more of a lion diet approach like how how are you performing? How's it going in the gym? Able to put on muscle? How's that going? Yeah, that's that's one of the best benefits. That's the muscle like I'm working out now. We're in season so I'm only working out once a week and I'm able to maintain and even grow right now. >> [clears throat] >> Not much effort. I think that's pretty pretty amazing. Also seen like these Tristan Lee and all of the biggest bodybuilders like they are doing carnivore. It's just not being promoted that much but they were doing carnivore to get lean. It's just also have a um a old friend he's like 60 years old having touched a weight in his whole life and when he started doing carnivore he is um he got he got more lean and more more more muscles basically just from eating carnivore and I've definitely noticed that as well. Yeah, well I mean that was the the old bodybuilder diet like back in the golden era. Arnold Schwarzenegger and Serge Nubret like Serge Nubret especially like he he maybe have a bit of carbs and other things on the off season but mostly he was just eating meat and a lot of meat and for 3 months prior to his show for the prep before the show he was just eating just meat. That's it. Just 6 lbs of horse meat every day. And so it's like the guy took down a few horses in his time. Yeah, well he was French and so they they they they ate a lot of horse there. So that's just what he liked. And and they you know extremely lean extremely muscular some of the best physiques ever in history and and that's how that's how they did it. They would just meat. Um and then a lot of athletes now are figuring this out as well. But you know this goes back a long way and a lot of people um knew that this was the way to eat. You have different you know strong men and athletes historically would like they had to focus on eating a lot of meat. That's what gave you your strength and and ability to perform as an athlete. And you know in the last sort of 40 years we've just been inundated with insidious and fraudulent studies and um assertions that you need carbohydrates you should limit meat limit fat all these other sorts of things just go vegetarian and things like that and and somehow that's going to make us like an optimal athlete and you know it'll it'll you know work to a certain extent it work but it doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be optimal and more and more athletes are are finding that out now like yourself. Also find find it interesting you said that they they knew it was the best diet and they find that it's the most optimal but the problem with with many athletes that I found also when I tried to convince my friends they're on look they're on looking for the optimal they're looking for what they enjoy. So when I first they get scared when I say I wanted to eat meat and then they say oh but you got to have this and this and in their brain it's because they don't like to get out of that comfort even though it's most optimal. So when they have that intention they have the intention of just um getting to getting the information that they like. So they might end up searching on YouTube um give me the most optimal diet and they see these fake doctors that video that pops up uh don't eat carnivore or just go on a vegetarian diet and they trust them because their intention wasn't to find what was most optimal. It was simply to get what they like. And that was how I came across you actually because I heard you're in the beginning of my research. I heard your um debate with two vegans. Mhm. Um and of course you you won pretty clearly but also I heard you say um I'm looking for the most optimal is what's most optimal and that was when I realized your intention. And then I started like seeing more of your videos and basically find found out everything you said was just right. Like you said you mentioned with one of my struggles was cramps. Um and everybody said more salt more salt and then I saw you were just just get more water and it basically just went away. So you became my trusted source from from there. Oh, that's good. Yeah. Um okay. So you've been you've been doing keto for a while. How long were you keto before you went carnivore? Uh actually not that long keto. I was I had a period of fasting for like 4 months then maybe keto like like 2 weeks and then I just tried carnivore. Okay. So you know in that time especially with the fasting and then and then for 2 weeks on keto and then 4 months on carnivore pretty should be pretty fairly keto adapted at that point. Did you did you find a dip in your performance at all or did you stay pretty good or just get improvements? In the fasting and keto state. Mhm. Uh Yeah, I mean fasting may may may have been a bit of an issue um because sometimes you're you're getting into ketosis but then you're not really adapting all the way and then you're going back and so depending on how often you were eating and how often you were fasting it's hard to say but Yeah. I think I took it like very very little steps so I didn't I didn't really see that much negative things. Good. But I I also think I didn't see that much positive otherwise I I got more energy when I trained fasted. I enjoyed that much more [clears throat] than having carbs before. Other than that I don't think I saw I don't know I didn't see anything that negative. I only saw positive things. Yeah, good. And then so what is your performance like now compared to yourself and also compared to your your competition? Yeah, so basically the main things is for example I had a game yesterday played full time. Can't feel [clears throat] anything right now in my body. I'm not sore not anything. That's a very very positive side. Also usually at training before carnivore I was often having like full stomach having uh feeling full and not being freely to move around. Now I can not eat for 18 hours and just have full energy. Nothing nothing in my stomach that bumps around. I can just run freely. And then it's more simple. I love that. I only have to eat once a day or once or twice a day. Also, the probably most important is that I had a I had a pretty severe knee injury, inflammation. And that slowly and I can't feel it anymore, but that slowly went away when I got on carnivore. That was probably the most important thing. What sort of what sort of knee injury? It's It's called pes anserinus or something like that. It's from too much training overtraining basically. Okay. All right. And that and that's and that settled down? A lot. Yeah, good. Yeah, a lot of times just the inflammation will go down. That you know, that that's definitely a bonus to any athlete is having less inflammation so you're not as sore and beat up after a game. Obviously you get bruises, that's that's different, but just the sore muscle from muscle exertion, the DOMS, the delayed onset muscle soreness, we don't really get that unless you eat eat some plants or drink some coffee from plant. And and which is amazing because then you're you're not suffering for days after a competition or training and you just feel good all the time and you you have this instant recovery and you can go out and you can train more. So you you are able to train more and harder and recover faster than your competition. So if you take advantage of that and really push yourself, you're going to be at a massive advantage to everybody else that you're playing against and not having all the information to having all these little you know, persistent injuries and inflammation that that that slow you down is also obviously a huge bonus. I'm a bit curious on that. You said >> [snorts] >> I haven't like can you train how much more do you think you can train harder on carnivore than on a normal diet? Cuz I haven't actually increased my training that much from the >> Yeah. Well, you don't have to, but if you think about it because you're recovering faster, you're not sore all the time. Yeah, you can you can get in extra training sessions. If you're if you're training so much your body's just a wreck and you're just like, "Oh god, I need to I need to rest." then you have to rest and you're not going to be able to you're not going to get in those extra training sessions. Whereas if you feel great all the time, well, maybe you can add in a morning session or you can add in an evening session. You can add in something on a Tuesday that you would that other people wouldn't be doing. There was I think it was Dan Gable um who was a was very very famous very very successful Olympic wrestler. And um he like after he won like the world championships, he would wrestle anybody he was a smaller guy, but he would wrestle everybody on the team on like the Olympic team and he would and he would keep wrestling until he beat them. So he could beat everybody on the team and he was a small guy. And so he was going against the super heavyweight guys and just thrashing them, right? And when he won the worlds um the world championship he was out at 6:00 a.m. the next day because he went for a 10-mile run every morning at 6:00 a.m. And the next day he won the world championship and he was out there running at 6:00 a.m. like "What are you doing? You know, you just you just won the world championship, you know, like just take just take a day off." He's like, "Absolutely not, you know, because if I you know, because the other guy is not not running today. The other guy is taking a day off. And if I get if I'm up at 4:30 in the morning training you know, I get up at 4:00 to train because I know my competition isn't. And so if I can train more than them, I'm going to beat them. And so if you're sore all the time, maybe that doesn't work all that well. Obviously you need rest periods and you need to give your body a chance to recover, but if you're recovering much faster and you're and you're giving your body what it's what it needs to recover and to heal and repair you're going to be able to heal and repair faster than other people. You won't be in as as much physical pain as other people and you won't be risking as much injury. Yes, you can still overdo it and you can still injure yourself, but you know, you're not immortal. It's just you're better than you would be otherwise. And so you can get in extra training sessions. You know, if you want to you know, if you want to be better than everybody else, you know, you you got to train like it, right? I mean hard work and persistence and and consistency wins every time. And so you know, if you're up if you're up in the morning every morning you're going for a run and your competition isn't, you're going to be at an advantage. You know, if you're going to extra gym sessions. If you're watching extra game film. If you're doing those extra things that other people aren't doing or maybe they are doing it and so you really have to do that because you're going to be behind because your competition is doing it. And so you if you're not doing it, you're you're in trouble. So you know, for any professional athlete they or any professional at all, you know, what you want to do is you want to spend 4 hours a day focused on that activity. So if you want to you want to be you know, the best handball player, you got to train you got to play you know, hand Yes, you got practice, you got training, but every day, you know, you got to be doing something. Doing drills, doing sprints, doing cardio, going at the gym or something specific for your sport, watching game films. You know, we're not just watching it in the background like studying it, focusing. You know, saying what are these these best people what are they doing right, what are they doing wrong? Why did that guy get beat by that other guy? You know, what what could he have done? You know, and then and then being a student of the game and you know, some of the best players ever were were ones who really really studied and understood how the game is played because then you just insert yourself in and you just you know what's happening. You know what's going on. You know, it's like um the classic example of that is Larry Bird in in American NBA basketball who was a tall guy and he had you know, he could really shoot and everything that, but he he was sort of a bit gawky, uncoordinated, really jump. You see him loping around, but and he's dribbling by people and he's he's tricking people and he's he's fake shots and fake passes and you look at it it's just what he looks a bit uncoordinated, but but people bought it because he just understood the game. And he and he could he figured it out. He knew where everybody was. He knew exactly how things were set up. And so he just made things work and he could shoot. I mean the guy could shoot like hell. So you know, being a student of the game and really just putting in a lot of effort is is how you excel. And yes, you you need some sort of you know, athletic ability to start with, but you know, there are there are people that are not the best athletes that became that become some of the top competitors in their sport because they're just relentless with the amount of effort that they put in. And if you have a bit of talent and you have that same work ethic, like that's dangerous. And so being on a carnivore diet and being able to recover faster, not being sore all the time, not being miserable all the time, being able to train more often than other people and recover better so that you can compete at a higher level, like that's that's a huge advantage to any athlete. Yeah. And yeah, basically I have zero talent. Like I was in the was in the lowest lowest rank a few years ago, but I basically just outworked I worked my way up. That's why I know I can also get far especially with the carnivore diet. I'm also curious you say um basically just how the body feels. Train train as as hard as long as the body feels all right. Um so there isn't like kind of a limit because I kind of thought that the carnivore diet just removed the soreness, but the body still needed to recover. Mhm. It it does, but you know, a lot of people are sort of forced to rest because their body's just racked with pain. And yes, you do need some rest, but your your body can do a lot and and so it's it's interesting to just challenge yourself. Run more, sprint more, just add something in, add something in. Be like, "Okay, yeah, I'm handling this. My body feels great. Okay, add something else in, add a little more in." You you'll be surprised at how much your body can do. I mean, there was a point that I was playing for the university rugby team, playing for the premiership rugby team and training on my own and so I would often be training you know, from 3:30 in the afternoon till 9:00 or so and then I'd go to the gym. And then on my off days I'd be doing runs and sprints and I would I got into such good and and every training every session was like, "All this is this is conditioning. Everything's a dead sprint. Everything I do is at maximal speed is at maximum um um exertion and effort level. There's nothing I've done. I'm never jogging it. I'm never you know, dogging on any play at any practice on any drill. Every drill I'm going to be first. Every sprint I'm going to be first. Every warm-up lap I'm going to be first." And like I had a sexy buddy of mine who's like the wingers one of the fast guys. And he played college he was a wide receiver in college almost went to the NFL. And at one point he was he was just sort of noticed that I'm always in the front. He sort of started sort of he sort of giving me a funny look and started like speeding up next to me and I just didn't say anything, but I just sped up. I just kept in front of him just you know, by a couple inches. He started doing it more and more and more and I just like, "I'm going to be in front of you." And he's like dead sprint I'm in a dead sprint. I'm like, "I am not letting anybody pass me." cuz I was just that was what I was I was like, "No one is going to be working harder than me. I will be working harder than everybody. I'm going to beat everybody every time." And you know, you couldn't do I couldn't do that at first. Maybe they had like 10 sprints and then maybe some guys were and not putting everything I had into it on the first on all of them. And the first six, I'm beating everybody, and then other people are just sort of dogging it, and then they're like really putting in effort against me, and I'm so I didn't quite win the last four, but then the next week I won eight of them, and the next week I won all 10 of them, and then after that no one could beat me. And because you know, my my effort level on top of my diet allowed me to accelerate faster than than other people, you know? Yeah. And so you you'd be surprised, you know, you put in put in um you know, push yourself. The body's an amazing thing. You know, you're young. Um you know, be smart about things, don't hurt yourself, but just you know, start ramping things up. You will be shocked at what your body can do, and uh how much uh effort you can push in, and how much your body will give you in return. And you'll get you'll get to the point that you know, if you if you push yourself really maximally now and for the next several months, you will get to a point that your full practice, full game, dead sprint, work as hard as you can, I you won't even you won't even get puffed. Like you won't even break a sweat. >> up a tolerance. Yeah, you will. You will. Yeah, you'll just build up your fitness. And your fitness potential as a carnivore is miles above anybody else. And uh and that's what you that's what you do, you know? And um uh but yeah, you know, you need to be smart about it. You can hurt yourself, Okay. >> but you just just push yourself. In training, just be the first one every drill, everything is just max speed. Games are fitness day, too. Nothing is is at half speed, everything's at a dead sprint, everything's at maximal capacity and it and exertion. And if you train like that, and you play like that, and you have that mindset of everything's going to be full tilt, you'll never half-ass it at any point. And so you'll never take the the foot off the gas. And that's that's what that's what you know, the real greats have always done. You know, like the All Blacks, the New Zealand All Black rugby team, you know, they play as exactly as hard against you know, South Africa in the World Cup finals as they do against like America when they're up 80 points to nothing. You know, they do not take their foot off the gas. And it's just you know, in American football, it's like there's like mercy rules where you like you're up by four touchdowns, you're like, "Hey, come on. Just just put in your second side." And you know, stop you know, stop stop being mean, don't be a bully, or whatever. But the All Blacks are like, "Absolutely not." You know, because if we if we pull if we get used to pulling off when we're ahead, then we do that against the top team, you know, they're going to win. So they have that mindset of it's they are never going to take their foot off the gas, and that's and that's how you play if you want to be the best. Hey guys, just want to take a second to thank our sponsor at Carnivore Bar. I don't promote many products because honestly, all you need to be healthy is to just eat meat. But for those times that you're out hiking, road tripping, or stuck at work, and you want a nutritious snack that is just meat, fat, and salt if you want it, the Carnivore Bar is a great option. So I like this product not because it's just pure meat, but also because I want the carnivore market to thrive as well. And the more we support meat-only products, the more meat-only products there will be available in the mainstream. So if this sounds like something you'd like to get behind, check it out using my discount code Anthony to get 10% off, which also applies to subscriptions, giving you 25% off total. All right, thanks guys. And I'm very curious because it sounds like you have that mindset, you're on carnivore, so I'm very curious like why you decided to stop like a little early, I think. And because I'm I'm I'm guessing it's it's not because your body couldn't take more. Yeah. You're still very fit. >> Well, I'm 45, um but I still feel good. Um no, the the main the main reasons were um When did you stop? Oh, just a few years ago. But I you know, I decided to you know, stop you know, um pursuing like the highest levels uh to go to medical school, because I'd already taken a lot of time off and and taken a pause for that. And you know, I I was um trying to get on the the 2003 World Cup team, and I broke my leg right before that. And so I wasn't able to uh to play in the World Cup. And that just really really bummed me out. And I just wanted to play in the World Cup, and then you know, go to medical school, and yeah, still play rugby, but that was a that was a major major um milestone that I wanted to to accomplish. And then people were saying, "Well, you know, the injury that you had, you know, you broke your leg, you you know, dislocated the ankle, and and kept playing on it." And so it didn't really do much for the for the joint. Um that you know, I had surgery um and I I couldn't walk for five I didn't walk for five months. You know, my leg atrophied, it was like skinny as my arm. It was crazy. And normally my legs were just you know, tree trunks, you know? And from all the sprinting and things like that that I did. And um so that was weird. It looked like it looked I was like, "That's not my leg. That doesn't even look like my leg." You know, I I don't know what the hell that is, but it's not my leg. And you know, it came back, but um it was uh it was it was yeah, it was a bit different. And um so the uh I wanted to to prove that I could come back and so play at that level. And so I did, and then I you know, played in England, and I you know, got back you know, playing in the in the top levels and things like that in the in uh US and UK. And uh I was getting ready There was now the 2007 World Cup's coming up. You know, I'm getting looked at, and then um and then I broke my hand. And um so that was that was uh very unfortunate timing again. So the only two bones I've ever broken were right before World Cups. And so I said, "All right, look." And I like you know, I can't I just can't just keep doing this. Like I was already freaking out that I wasn't going on with medical school and things like that. Um so because I you know, I went to college early and finished early, and it's just like I I I so I justified taking time off because it was I was already sort of ahead of the game a bit. Um but now I'm you know, 27, and it's like I need to get on with this. And then so I kept playing rugby, kept playing the Super League and everything like that, but it was just like okay, now my focus needs to be on medical school. So I kept playing in medical school. I kept playing in one of the top leagues in uh Ireland in the in the All Ireland uh Division One. And uh for Trinity, and then when I graduated, played for Cork Constitution, but you know, then I was working 120 hours a week. I really didn't have much time uh for for anything else besides that. And um but I kept playing after that, and then got went carnivore, felt unreal, and at 38 went back and started playing you know, professional level rugby again at um with my team in Seattle that had just gone fully professional and gone into come the Seawolves. And um but then I sort of hurt my knee. So I have no joint problems in my whole body except for my kneecaps. And I've I've damaged the the cartilage on my kneecaps because uh I did kickboxing since I was a kid. And so that was knee strikes. That damages the cartilage on the kneecaps, and you know, no one told me that at the time. It would have been nice to know. Uh but that that got damaged, and so now that's bone on bone. And so you know, fine, it's sore. Who cares? Like that doesn't that doesn't slow me down. The problem comes that that some of that cartilage sort of flakes off and gets stuck in in the rest of the knee and causes a lot of inflammation. And and then the whole knee just swells up, and I didn't know what the hell was going on. And so I ended up getting surgery and sort of sucking out all these little chunks of cartilage. And then rehabbed it and was good. And I started playing again the next season. And um and so I was doing preseason and and playing some games, and felt really good. And then my other knee started swelling up. I'm like, "Christ." And so I got that one all the little flaky bits sucked out of that knee. And uh but then I was so anxious to like play and get back on the field that I just I just rushed it. I just went back in basically straight away. And um you know, within a couple weeks after surgery. And um it was okay for a bit, but then all of a sudden it started swelling back up again and and having problems. And um since then it's been difficult for me to run or do anything without it swelling up. >> [snorts] >> And that's the the main thing. It's like pain's not a big deal to me. Um but when it starts swelling up with with fluid, and then you just you can't bend your knee, that's what it slow that sort of stops you from being able to play. So if I ever figure that out, you I bet your ass I'm going to be back out there playing. So to me it's uh it's pretty obvious that that was a clear sign that you had a greater purpose. Mhm. Which was to help so many people, which you have done now. And you got far. You could use that as part of your story, like how much carnivore changed you. And then all of these bumps of breaking your hand, leg, I think it was it was part of your plan so that you can go on this mission, go on medical school, learn everything you learned, and then help so many people. I don't know, you have over 500 subscribers now, or something like that. It's crazy. Mhm. So many people who have reversed their diseases, become more healthy. So I think it's uh it sucks for you, probably, but I think it's uh it's worth it. It's worth it. Yeah, I mean, I'm I'm sure I could have done both. Yeah, I think that would have been fine. Yeah, I mean, cuz I was I was still I was still a doctor and doing carnivore when I was, you know, 38 and and playing and then my knees went to hell. So, you know, if I was still playing, you know, I think that that would have been fine. I wouldn't have lost anything. So, um but uh I'll figure it out. I'll figure out how to get it going and um and uh yeah, I mean, I was I've even sort of come up to the the idea that maybe at this point I've just um teach myself how to how to or get a buddy of mine uh or someone to teach me how to drain my own knee. So, I don't have to like go in and and get people to do it. I'll just I'll just do it myself at home. And uh if I ever have a problem, just like all right, suck it out and get back on the field, you know? So, yeah, we'll see see if that that's feasible. That's a passion for the sport. I love that. Yeah. >> Um I have a very curious question about um like whether or not it's smart to drink water while eating. Do you do that or do you wait like 30 minutes after or before or Yeah, I I usually try to wait. Um it you know, the the common recommendation is you don't you don't drink water for 2 hours before and after a meal to try to help keep the the digestive enzymes and stomach acid concentrated. And so, that that may be more or less important for certain individuals. But um I I just find it just just on principle, I just try to sort of avoid that. Um I'm not perfect. I'm not just like with there with a stopwatch and just like, okay, I'm not eating for another 2 hours after I have a glass of water or anything like that. But I just try to be cognizant of that and try to sort of keep it down to a minimum. If I'm if I'm I'm having dinner and my mouth's dry and you know, sometimes just having a a sip of water helps, you know, get you know, wet the whistle and get the get the food down your throat. And and so, I'll do that. But I I I did I do try to keep it to a minimum while I'm eating a meal and then I try to wait a couple hours after I eat a meal or if I I'm feeling very thirsty or my throat's dry or something like that, I'll just I'll just have a like a sip or two and then try to leave it at that. Okay, nice. Nice. Nice. And your current diet is um for what I know, it's basically just meat and then sometimes you may add in some some eggs or some butter on some special days, but mainly every day is basically just ribeye steaks or ground beef or is that right? Yeah, just beef mostly. Yeah, 99% of what I eat is just beef. And I don't I don't use sauces, seasonings, or flavorings. Um I don't have any garnishes. It's funny, I was just talking to my fiance L about this today and she was saying that that even like our friends or other people in the carnivore space, um cuz you know, a lot of people sort of dabble in little other things sometimes. You know, a lot of people stay pretty strict. It's funny like a lot of people in carnivore space um you know, aren't even really full carnivore. Like they eat meat, but you know, they they just sort of use that as a gimmick to try to sell like a coaching program or something like that, which actually, you know, I don't think is the right thing to do. I think you should you know, be sincere in in your in in in what you believe and what you feel is right for you. And you know, maybe you feel like, yeah, this is this is definitely I see this being the best thing for people who are on it, but I just I just can't keep to it. Fair enough, just be honest, you know? I think that's that's the best thing to do. But you know, I've spoken to people where they've said, yeah, I I interview a lot of these carnivore people and they're like, oh yeah, I'm not even carnivore. I eat whatever, but you know, that's just you know, you know, that's that's the the trend right now, so I'm hopping on it. I'm I am not that. And um you know, people asking my fiance L like, oh, did does he really stay that strict? Does he does he eat anything else? And she's like like, actually no. Like he just I eat doesn't and um I've no interest in it. And um like even spices or seasonings, like if I'm we're out at a restaurant, you know, I'll ask them not to put any seasonings on it. If there's some on it, I'm not going to cry about it. But I do notice difference. And you know, we talked about not getting sore. I had some um drywors uh dried beef sausages, basically South African sausages. Normally, we get this from a a South African sort of butcher um by our house and uh they use pretty minimal um seasonings and we sort of get the ones that have like basically nothing in there. But we were at a at a different place and we just sort of picked some up and not really thinking about it. And then had it had significantly more spices, so you could taste there was a lot of seasonings in there. I was like, okay. And it sort of didn't really make you feel great, but um you know, whatever, we had them and um and uh and then did a workout and had several of these meat sticks afterwards and then I was sore the next day from the spices. And I sort of think I was like, was that really like the spices are just doing that? So, I had a few more and like, yes, that was definitely the spices. I was way more sore. I was like sore for 4 days. And so, it's like I so I threw out like $80 worth of like dried sausages cuz like, I'm not eating that crap, you know? >> Yeah. Because it's Yeah, I I I don't want to put that crap in my body. And I don't feel good when I do. And I pay attention. And so, maybe not everybody works out as hard as I do, so maybe they don't have that problem. Maybe they won't get all that sore. But I notice it. And you know, me hobbling around for 4 days is not worth having something, you know, mildly tasty. Steak is delicious. Like I don't I'm not missing out on anything. And um so, you have this this spice that doesn't necessarily benefit the flavor. Like it would taste better to me without the flavor because I like the taste of the meat. And those spices are covering up the taste that I like. It's just they were in there. If they could make just those those dried sausages with nothing except meat, like I would prefer that from a taste perspective. And so, I don't prefer the taste. I don't prefer the flavor. And they make me feel like garbage and I'm sore for 4 days. Like, why would I eat that crap, you know? So, to me it's really easy. I'm you know, people say like, wow, that takes a lot of discipline, but it takes none. Because it takes exactly zero discipline or willpower to eat exactly what you want to eat. Like I have no interest in eating anything else. It's the only thing I want to eat because I feel so much better. And because I like feeling my best. And so, I don't I don't want to eat that stuff. So, it's like, well, don't you miss this cake or that? Not even once. Not even a single time. And uh and I don't Yeah, I don't think I ever will. I I couldn't agree more. I'm exactly the same. Like the more I I just remove the more I remove the the better the meat taste and the less I want any other things. Like I was at my my grandmother and she usually makes some pancakes and she's like, don't you want a little something? No, I actually don't. Just give me my meat. She's like, in the beginning it's a little more tough because we're used to having seven different things on our on our table, but now it's just easy and I don't want to have anything else. But I'm pretty curious like, what would happen if a person went carnivore for like 6 months and then went on a carb diet. Like how how worse would it be? And would you like um if a if a person knew he only could do carnivore for 2 months, would you recommend him still doing it if he was going back to like completely crap diet? Well, I mean, it's always you know, eating optimally just getting optimal nutrition is even for a short period of time is always going to be better than than not getting it. I mean, that's like the same, you know, it's similar as saying, you know, would it be would it be a good idea to stop doing cocaine for 2 months even if you're going to go back doing cocaine? Like yeah, it's it's good. Yeah, you're not you're not harming yourself. Um but with the additional added benefit, you're actually getting optimal nutrients as well. And so, 2 months of of optimal nutrition, I mean, you you that's not that's not something to um you know, to to disregard. I mean, that that's actually quite quite um a major a major thing. For especially because most people are not getting optimal nutrition. Most people are very nutrient deprived. They're vitamin deficient, they're mineral deficient, they're protein deficient, they're fat deficient, they're animal fat deficient. And there's there are a lot of nutrients that come with the animal fat that people just don't have. And so, 2 months eating optimally, absolutely. And the fact of the matter is that once you get to that 2-month period, you're much less likely to go back to that because once you do start eating carbs and everything else again, first of all, you're you're going to be in pain. You're going to have more soreness in your body. And you're going to have brain fog and you're not going to feel as good. And you're going to be hungry all the time. You're going to be chasing carbs all day. You're going to feel good for a minute and then it's going to crash and you have to eat more. And you're going to feel good and it's going to crash. And you do that whole game where you're just sort of chasing carb chasing your tail with carbs all day. And so, if you if you're willing to pay attention to it and pay attention to how your body feels and how it responds to the two different ways of eating, you're you're very likely to want to continue the diet that makes you feel the best. And that's what that's what most people find is that they give it a couple of months and they just feel amazing. I've had patients that found it very restrictive and they were like, wow, this is such a departure from the way I normally eat. I I sort of want to just try to you know, is there is there any way I can just add something back in? So, I was like, okay, well, look, you have insulin resistance, you have type 2 diabetes, you have this hormonal issue, you have this, you have PCOS, you have all these sorts of thing. That all comes from insulin. We We to get, you know, we need to reverse that and get your insulin levels down so that you can become fertile again and you can you know, reverse your diabetes etc. And so it's like okay, we need to stay ketogenic but you can add in you know, two fist size servings of non-starchy vegetables. They're like okay, I can do that, right? It's just mostly eat meat and eggs, you add in these other things if you need some variety. And this one woman in particular, she came back in sort of a month later or a few weeks later and and so I asked her how it was going and we talked about her progress and she just sort of had this look that sort of defeated look. She's like yeah, I think I'm going to have to go back to full carnivore. I was like okay, and why is that? She's like I just felt so much better. I had no idea. I I didn't realize how much better I felt until I stopped eating that way and I didn't feel that way anymore. And then it all sort and then it all made sense. And so um if you are carnivore for 6 months, 8 months, 9 months, a year and you start adding things back in, you're you're not going to feel as good. It's going to hurt your body and the reason I'm so for me personally against eating any of that stuff is because I've seen that. I've dabbled with that and some things have slipped in and it it has it has cost me for several days after that. And so for me it's there's there's not a chance in hell that I'm going to do that again. And a lot that's where a lot of people end up feeling. And it's like that that's also what I tell people like when they disagree like tested. Go test on yourself. Like for me it's a it's a no-brainer. Like I'm it's not even I don't know how it's for you guys in America, but for me it wasn't was not that much more expensive. Like just order >> [clears throat] >> 30 kg at a time uh and then don't do don't eat out don't eat out at restaurants order pizza to take away then you save the money on that. You get optimal health. Like for me it's a completely no-brainer. Um but I'm also curious about because I'm I'm thinking about a friend who's thinking about going carnivore. Um is it more beneficial for people who are like who can eat that many things? Maybe they're allergic to some things. Is it more beneficial for specific people? Oh yeah oh yeah, absolutely. I mean if you I mean just look at the native native populations, indigenous populations in in America and Australia. I mean they have much higher rates of chronic disease and and and that's that's a direct result of eating Western food, not having had 10,000 years to get adapted to to agricultural food. And this is something that's in in the modern peer review peer reviewed anthropological literature where they talk about how they talk about how in pre-agricultural societies, these these you know, native populations, indigenous populations, how they're eating predominantly meat and not a whole bunch of Western food, they don't get all the this sort of diseases that we see all these chronic diseases. The health issues that they get are accidents, injuries, war, animal attacks, those sorts of things, infectious disease, poisonings and and malnutrition, famines, those sorts of things. And they do live as long or longer than Westerners. It's just that their infant mortality rate is so much higher that average life expectancy from birth, you know, can go down around 60. But if you look at the modal age and how how old people live when they die of old age and they're again they're dying from animal attacks and and you know, wars and and injuries and infectious disease and and famines, things like that. Um they're they're living as long or longer than we are and they probably could live longer. It's not like their bodies are just giving up. It's just something's killing them, right? And so it's only when and they say in these studies it's only when these populations move into a post agro agricultural society, so Western society, civilized society that or start bringing in their foods and things like that to them. Like the the Masai Mara, they're bringing in the Coca-Cola trucks are coming into the the um the the Masai villages and things like that. Now their diabetes rate and heart disease rates are starting to go up. Like gee, well, how could that be? They're saying that once you that once they start being involved in more Western society and Western nutrition that Western food is not nutrition that that now they start that changes to now they start getting the diseases of civilization quote unquote. And what the hell is a disease of civilization? It's diabetes, it's heart disease, it's cancer, it's autoimmunity. So they're going to be much more susceptible to this. And so that's why you see in my opinion, that's why you see Native American populations and Aboriginal Australian populations that four, five times the rate of chronic disease. Now there are problems with alcoholism in those communities, but guess what? There's problems with alcoholism in every community. I mean you don't think Australians, the European Australians have have an alcoholism problem? Are you joking? When I came here and said I didn't drink, people thought that I was like I just escaped from a sane asylum. They're like you what? You don't what? They they were just shocked. Absolutely shocked. I mean I met a I met a girl here who, you know, when I told her I didn't drink, she just said, you know, what? This isn't going to work out because I I I want a boyfriend that I can I can go out and drink with. I was like okay. [laughter] Yeah, this isn't going to work. And it was just it was that was so important to her that that that her partner be an alcoholic like her. I mean it's just like you know, when I was living in Ireland, I you out of your mind? You know, half the people in my class were still what were drunk still drunk in the mornings on on a Tuesday. You know, it was like as soon as we finished class, they were at the pub. At least some of them were, not all of them. But you know, I mean you're kidding yourself if there's if you think that there's the the only alcohol problems are in indigenous populations. Now though that alcohol since they haven't maybe had exposure to it as long, maybe that affects them worse. But you know, I would you know, alcoholism is is plenty plentiful around the world. I mean that's not we're not you know, we're no angels, right? Um but yeah, there's some people even in European populations that you know, they can't handle a piece of spinach. Like they will they will have an extreme reaction to that. You know, from with like an autoimmune perspective especially. Autoimmune disease. It's estimated that in America about 50 million people have an autoimmune disease of some of some form or another. 50 million people. And that's just in the US. Um all of those people are extremely sensitive to plants. They stop eating those plants and they just eat beef and lamb, the vast majority of them will um will improve to such a degree that they might even be able to come off medications. That's what I've seen anyway in my clinical practice and I think there're very clear reasons for that that I have in my videos lectures called rethinking autoimmune disease. Um so definitely there, but you know, I've seen people in native populations like in the Canadian native population, the First Nation, you know, Inuit populations. There's a lady that was in some of my groups and she'd been carnivore for 40 years. Culturally, the Inuit population, they they were all carnivores historically and prehistorically. And um so that was very normal. And so her daughter was having a lot of health issues and reacted to everything except for meat. And so she said okay, we're just eating meat. And so she's eating meat because of her daughter exclusively for last 40 years. But she uses seasonings and spices. And as a result she had four autoimmune diseases. Only eating meat but with spices. And so when she saw my videos talking about plant toxins and about how you know, getting rid of the last 5% can can actually have 95% of the benefit. Um you know, it's like a you know, grain of sand going into a watch glass into a watch gears. You know, the first piece of sand has the highest impact. As you know, the first going from zero to one has more impact than going from 99 to 100 even though at 100 it's just shut down. So she thought well, that's crazy. That can't be true. But she's like you know, screw it. I'll try for 30 days and all of her autoimmune issues started getting better. All of them. And then after a few months they were all in remission. Just from the spices. So she comes from that background where they don't they don't really use plants even as spices and and she was very very very sensitive to them. Her daughter um would get intractable seizures. She would she would get epilepsy. She would have seizures and epileptic fits if she ate anything else except meat. Um even as a baby as an infant. And she was actually telling me as well that in the Inuit population, the First Nation population they um when babies are done breastfeeding, they're weaned off um all of a sudden there's there's a whole bunch of them that are that are getting seizures. They're having the seizure disorder. And um and she was sort of picking my brain about that and I said, you know, if it's all happening when you start weaning the babies off breast milk, you know, that sort of makes me wonder what are they being weaned on to? What are they being fed? And she said, you know, what? Actually now that you mentioned that, um there's a there's a law that was passed that if you stop breastfeeding, the babies have to go on formula. And they have to go on formula. Formula, for those who don't know, um it's required by a law that they contain seed oils. And very high linoleic acid uh levels of seed oils. And and sugars. And babies need to be in ketosis cuz that's how the how the brain grows. And when even though breast milk has carbohydrates, they are it's still they they're still in ketosis on breast milk. And their studies actually comparing breast milk with formula, they're not in ketosis on formula. They are in ketosis and making ketones on breast milk because they need glucose. That's how the brain runs and functions properly and grows optimally. And so these kids were being weaned onto formula and not their native diet of, you know, caribou and seal. And and they were all having seizures and things like that. So, yeah yes, there are definitely people that are more sensitive. And this is why I also think that in the African-American population, there is a there is a clear disparity in heart disease, diabetes, other sorts of chronic diseases. Well, you know, if they haven't been exposed to agriculture as long as other people, then of course you're going to see that disparity. It's not as big as Native Americans, but it's you know, it's not as good as other populations. And so obviously there are many other factors that health in general is is multifactorial, but I think that's going to play a significant role that your your distance away from when you're you know, when your ancestors started involving um you know, plant-based foods opposed agricultural foods, the more time genetically you would have had to adapt to that. And so the less you know, the the closer that was that your ancestors flipped like 150 years ago for the Native Americans and Australians, then you're not that there's no time at all. I mean that's not that's nothing. You would have had zero um um adaptation during that period and be sensitive to these things. Yeah, so basically like the more sensitive, the better the greater benefit from going full straight carnivore, basically. >> Oh yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And it's I could really like talk to you for hours. And every time you say something I'm thinking of a whole all new pattern we could take. For example, with the the alcohol. It's so funny people people ask us, "Why are you drinking Why aren't you drinking alcohol?" Mhm. But have like why do you drink alcohol? Like you're destroying your health. Like why are you actually doing it? Also, my plan is definitely to live to 120 years at least with this diet. I'm going for that. Uh and then I have a one of my last questions here is about like just for the rest of my life, basically. Just I can just do ground beef, like 20% fat. No no no fish. Um no liver. Maybe liver like once a year. You said that with um destroying a whole cow or you only take it. You only take the portion. Basically. Yeah. So yeah, like basically just the most optimal would basically just ground beef 20% rest of my life. May maybe a bit more fat. You know, and people have have Yeah, a bit more fat usually. You know, maybe 65 35 or 70 30, somewhere around there. Um it it depends it depends on your demands. You know, you you everybody has a unique demand for fat and protein. So, you need to just eat fat until your body is saturated with its ability to absorb fat because you run out of bile, you can't absorb fat. So, 90% of fat goes out. So, you eat fat until you get soft stools but not loose stools, right? Can you also build a tolerance there? Well, you you might change how much bile you make because if you're not eating a lot of fat, your your body is likely going to downregulate how much bile you make because um it's an expensive resource. And if you're just you're just not going to make this stuff uselessly and necessarily. But once you start eating more fat, it is very possible and probable that your body will start making more bile to meet your demands. But then you're going to have different demands on different days or or or different weeks or months depending on your activity level. And if you're you're training hard and you're pushing yourself, then you know, you might have a higher energy demand. You might have a higher demand for those nutrients as well. Um so, you know, you just just listen to your body. You eat fatty meat until it stops tasting good. You do that as many times during the day that your body's telling you to. And just aim for that that that amount of fat that you get enough fat so that you're getting soft stools but not loose stools. And um and then just yeah, getting in all the protein that comes with it. But yeah, ground beef you could definitely do that that. You know, as as to liver, um most people would be fine without it. And you'll certainly be better than you were, but there are sort of more optimal ranges of vitamins and minerals. And most people will get, especially with like grass-fed finished like real or like wild meat, things like that, then you should be fine. But some people might have an increased demand for certain vitamins and minerals. You know, someone has a MTHFR or something like that, they might need a bit more of the B vitamins like B12. Um may have a a malabsorption issue. May not be able to absorb B12 or something else as well. And so just being cognizant of that, you'll feel better. You'll do a lot better. But are you optimal? Well, then maybe check. And so maybe for some people it would be optimal to have 100 g of liver three days a week or something like that. I have patients like that. To get any but they feel fantastic anyway. They're getting a lot better, but this just sort of puts them over that edge into that real optimal level. And some people, you know, maybe they're they're not doing that well because they're not absorbing a lot of B12 or something like that. And then you have to you you have to make sure that they're getting enough uh you know, nutrients and liver and things like that. The vast majority of people, yes, absolutely could could just eat fatty ground beef and um maybe a bit of butter. And um and uh would probably not need to eat organs if they didn't want to. Vast majority. Yeah, so basically go off taste. That's also what I found. Mhm. If it doesn't taste good, your body don't want it, basically. >> Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And um I was going to ask too like how how is your family family dealing with all this? Yeah, it's got to be got to be a a bit of a departure from how you were raised to eat. Yeah, it's it's so funny. It's It's like all people they're they're saying uh how about how about this? How about How about this? Can you eat this? How about it? Maybe it would be easier just to understand it's just meat. Yeah. Yeah. There's nothing They keep asking, "What about pasta? What about Can you have seasonings? Can you have coffee? What?" No, it's just this. Yeah. Um but basically as I said in the beginning, I took that journey with fasting keto. Um and my mother was doing fasting in the beginning with me, but she's she's now a keto and she haven't fully accepted that um that carnivore probably will be the most optimal, but I'll get her tested and then she will she'll find out. Um But otherwise, the as I would my grandma, she she definitely don't like it. Mhm. And she said, "So, how long are you going to be on this diet?" Yeah. Well, 120 years. Yeah. She goes, "I don't believe that." And she wants to have the pancakes. That's funny. Yeah. But yeah, with most people I I I usually don't like to to force them to do it. They I have to have extreme love. People do not like It's like religious to them with their diet. And once I tell them they go completely defensive mode. You're you're nutrient deficient. You can't be optimal and yeah. They they just want their their comfort, their usual diet instead of going for what's optimal. And that's basically what's holding them back. Well, you know, an interesting thing would be if you know, especially if it's family members that are that are saying, "Hey, this is I'm I'm worried about you. I'm worried about this being nutrient deficient." Say, "Hey, why don't we get our blood tested? I'll get my We'll get our nutrient levels tested. I'll get my vitamins and minerals tested. You get the same ones tested. And then we'll see. You know, and then we can talk from there. Maybe maybe I'll add in some organs or something like that, you know? Or maybe you you know, you stack the deck and just eat some liver leading up to it, right? So, like eat some liver and kidneys like for a couple weeks leading up to it and then get your your things tested and just blow them out of the water, you know? And then they're going to say like, "Oh my goodness, your B12 is too high. You're going to kill yourself with all these nutrients." But well, I thought that I was nutrient deficient. What happened to that? Yeah. And that and that's the thing like um some of the I also have I have a I'm trying to go and grow my personal brand. I'm entrepreneur doing some business. And some company reach out to me and they say, "Oh, promote this. You can do all of these tests. They will give you results." But then I looked into them. And of course I won't promote anything I don't support. So, and I can see it's like where is the optimal? Where do we get the optimal from? And they basically got it from the average population. So, it's like the average expect to have this much B12 and this much vitamin C, but we don't need vitamin C, basically. So, determining what's optimal of numbers can be hard sometimes. I think it's better to just see how the body reacts, basically. Yeah, basically. And you know, and but you can always compare it to other people. They think you're nutrition deficient and you're better than them, well then they can't really say you're deficient. You know, even if it's you know, regardless of what the optimal levels are, you're better than them and they're the ones think thinking that you're deficient, you know. So, yeah. And then um and what about your teammates, you know, they're seeing you do this, you know, and they're seeing you feeling feeling your best, not getting sore. Have any of them become interested in this or they all think you're crazy, too? Yeah, I love this one. Um I haven't uh I haven't really spoken with them about it much, but they we had a um a tournament. Uh it was in the beginning of my carnivore, so I hadn't figured out exactly how to do. We had two games uh and I basically in in between the games I was sitting just eating meat and eggs. Um I wouldn't do that now. I would just wait till I got home, but at that time I uh I thought that was most optimal and then some of them saw them Don't you need some carbs? Nope. I don't uh but I haven't talked that much with them. Also, like um maybe not so smart to get on this podcast, but I feel like it's a secret. Mhm. It's So, it's so much more optimal to do this, much more advantageous uh advantage, so True. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's good. Um well, Jacob, thank you so much for coming on. It was it was really fun talking to you and then I I wish you all the luck in the world and um you know, you're in a you're in a really exciting part right now in your carnivore journey because you're you're just getting into that phase where your body's just going to start really really uh come providing so many benefits. You you're just you're not even going to you're not going to recognize yourself within a year. You know, your whole body's going to completely transform. You're just going to be shredding fat and stacking on muscle. Your athletic performance and endurance is just going to go through the roof and you know, the harder you push yourself, the more your body's going to give you. And so in in this is a very exciting time for for anybody going through carnivore, but for especially for a young aspiring athlete because you you have no idea the limits of your body because you're not going to have any. The harder you push yourself the better your you're you're going to perform. And so, you know, it sounds like you've got that that drive that you're going to put in the extra work. You're going to go for runs in the morning. You're going to do all the extra gym sessions and training sessions and skill sessions and all that sort of stuff. And so, you know, when you do that, you're going to see your body start to take off and your performance start to take off in in ways you had no idea they could. So, I'm I'm really excited for you. It's a really exciting time. Yeah, we we must do another one in a year that I can give you a say it to you, but that's the thing. I don't want the the athletes watching. We haven't even spoken about like the explosive part if it damages explosive it didn't for me. Short answer is no. Yeah. Yeah, [laughter] exactly. And I wouldn't recommend for people to wait another year to >> [laughter] >> to see if it all the benefits I got because it does work. Like test it. It maybe be a little hard in the beginning. Make that slow slow change. Just commit and it will definitely change. Don't wait. Test it. Yeah, absolutely. All right, man. Well, it was it was great to see you. Thank you so much for coming on and where can people find you? You're on social media and and uh how do people follow you if they can? Um yeah, I have a I have a Instagram account and I have a YouTube account where I try to help people with mindset and stuff like that. And then I also have a Faces account called Zero Dopamine where I basically it's motivation, but we remove the music so people actually can focus on like the main message. Um but yeah. Okay. That's very good. All right. Well, I will try to put those links down in the description and people can go and check them out there. Jacob, thank you so much for coming on. It's been a pleasure. Yeah. See you. See you then. And thank you everybody for joining as well. I hope you enjoyed that. Please do share this with someone you think would benefit and leave a comment and a like so that the algorithm can pick it up. Thanks, everyone. We'll see you next time. Hey guys, thank you very much for taking the time out to listen to what I had to say. If you like it, then please like and subscribe to my YouTube channel and podcast. If you're on YouTube, then please hit that little bell and subscribe and that'll let you know anytime I have a new video out, which should be every week if not more. And if you could share this with your friends, that would help me get the word out and let me know that you like what I'm doing. Thanks again, guys.