The Cancer Treatment Doctors Don’t Talk About | Professor László Boros

welcome to the plantree MD podcast with Dr Anthony chaffy where we discuss diet and nutrition and how this affects health and chronic disease and show you how you can use this to optimize your health and happiness both mentally and physically hello everyone thank you for joining me for another episode of the plant-free MD podcast I'm your host Dr Anthony chaffy and today I have a very special return guest Professor llo borash who has been on my podcast before talking about the importance of of dut nomics which is something we'll be talking about more here today uh Dr boros thank you so much for coming on it's a pleasure to see you again thank you Chief thank you for calling thank you for inviting me thank you so much not a problem and please just just call me Anthony that's fine yeah all right yeah so um we've been talking um you know off off air and staying in touch and you've been very kind to keep me in the loop with your latest developments in D nomics um but I would love to to um hear more about that for for my audience if you can tell us some of the new research that you've been putting out and maybe just a just a quick sort of two- minute summary on what dut nomics is and then if people haven't seen the other episode yeah sure uh so D toomics is the biology or biochemistry or Medicine of Dum which is a heavy stabil isotope of of hydrogen hydrogen is is the most active atomic element in our body making up about 60 70% of the atomic composition of our body and for the matter of the universe and it behaves very particular in a very particular way in in biological systems because hydrogen or protons are the energy transferring and also the chemical bonding elements in our body and the difference between hydrogen which is the first element of the periodic table and its stable isotope uh dutron or duum which has a proton and a neutron hydrogen has only a proton and electrons Dum has has protons and neutrons uh in a neutron it makes it 100% increased in in in size and and weight Atomic nuclear weight and that makes a huge huge difference in biological systems it's practically a medicine ball in the football field and and you as a football player or or rugby player you you know how big how big a difference there is when the ball has a different weight I think there's a New England Patriot kind of story when they kind of yeah they were playing with a little thingy just to make the the ball lighter m uh and it's only a few grams now in biology we're talking about twice our weight and size of the nuclear mass of of hydrogen or proton or the the the hydrogen stabil isotop so in that sense because of its kinetic isotope effects uh Lumis is 10 to 15 times harder to remove from chemical bonds excuse me it it behaves very differently in biochemical reactions and for that matter especially when it comes to these very precise biochemical reactions what we call teling um that dum can deliver quite large damage to to uh proteins and pretty delicate moving Parts in our cells especially in the mitochondria so it seems that differentiating between hydrogen and tinium in bio ological systems is is key to health and based on our studies it's it's the carnivore lifestyle or the natural carnivore um life and eating habits is that can actually regulate Dum in our body most efficiently and there are some new developments but practically uh D toomics is a is a is a study of how D and hydrogen are discriminated for different purposes in in our system in our body and and in and biology and after all how diseases develop when this process is defective or there's Dum overload um and there are gating mechanisms that are overflown by Dum and what are the heart consequences and and how we can use those in medical Diagnostics that's practically the framework the umbrella of of dut toomics per se very good so this this is something we we spoke about before but you know since since then you've had some uh new Publications and new insights as well could you tell us a bit about some of those yeah so we started teaching dut toomics at UCLA when I was at UCL I UCLA I retired in 2021 and that course work continued at the ra University in Amsterdam and now we actually um graduated a a master's um student and in Florida who went further and published her results in a previewed medical um Journal metabolomics uh which is a springer nature publication and the significance of of this is that uh her name is Nicole Kinski um when she introduced her topic for her thesis her teachers her professors were not really Keen to pursue such a kind of Novel idea of how can a stabilized dope induce uh various human diseases and was the biochemistry behind those processes yet uh she insisted she laid out her cards and and they eventually not only graduated her but actually she graduated with honors and one of her professors uh Dr an Davis joined her as an author in her publication in metabolomics which is now out and that's practically a peer-reviewed version of her thesis and um it can be read in the medical Rich so we can add this to the podcast notes after all if somebody's interested in reading our paper I supervised this project and it was actually fantastic to see how she could turn around her entire department and um make this a official peer-reviewed publication in the medical literature of a springer nature uh publication so it's it's it's it's a huge accomplishment we are very proud of her and in the meantime I also started working with firefighters emergency workers who have because of the in interrupted sleep cycle and circadium Rhythm some he issues where du toomics or D metabolism is very critical we started working with Sports man I I talked to Alex McDonald uh and we are planning to publish his results uh because he was taking some really extreme sporting challenges running five marathons in five days while fasting and then he did a ultra marathon which is 100 kilometers again fasting and we have a lot of data we added some additional test we would like to see how it works out in her in his Carnival lifestyle and we are working together with Alex pet petrovski who is who his his doctor so we friend so we we are kind of putting this in in in a framework of what we already published with um for example Ballinger who climbed up to the Mount ever without supplemental oxygen and a carnivore due d due to depleting lifestyle so we we we understand now much better how mitochondria protects its own um very delicate uh peptides proteins and and and and really just a very logical very simple system of getting out d this heavy hydrogen isotope from Metabolism from moving parts and how this serves through carnivore lifestyle what the advantage of a carnivore natural carnivore lifestyle meaning that the products are coming from grassfed pasture animals and how the tomb depletion fits into this whole picture and how that can enhance Sports Performance endurance and uh longevity help and how it can reverse certain metabolic disease processes uh what are the markers so it seems like these Publications that we put out this year in 2024 one of them is actually in the 99 percentile so it's one of the most sought after medical Publications now meaning that we are beating um almost every every other paper in Biochemistry as far as downloads and reads and I'm getting these notes from art metric you know now in the electronics electronic age of of communications it's so easy to see how fast people are interested in in these topics and and these are making significant waves in various areas of of of medicine especially sports medicine and emergency workers where endurance and and mitochondrial health is is is key to to survive some of those scenarios I would say and and we are able to to help not only people persons but also the the medical and scientific Community with this knowledge and information right so what is it about um having an optimal amount of of dyum or or a lower amount of cerium that is beneficial for athletes do you know yeah so um mitochondria is is is key to their to their performance and endurance and and also it's not only the physical performance but also it's the mental capacity to deal with certain situations I mean you as a as a as a number one player you you know how important it is quick decisions to be focused to be able to kind of overcome all the tackles and and and those are just really simply demanding a a whole body to function for in in extreme situations and it seems mitochondrial he mitoch condia for that matter and the Dum gaing mechanisms which starts with food and eating and and so on how important those are to actually stay fit and to be able to um beat others because that's what the sporting challenge is after all and it seems that the because of the carnivore lifestyle brings in a low Dum um food source their mitochondria is able to operate under um loaded human viment or loaded te um um intake in that sense and um because this mitochondrial and the TC cycle Unity is practically to gate out theum through these revolving doors called nanomotors and recycle the same Matrix water that is generated from a low Dum proton Cloud that falls into the Matrix and oxygen would actually wait for those protons to make Matrix water it seems that the TC cycle is already designed as biochemical reactions are concerned to pick up the Matrix water so don't bring extra cellular or or drinking water into the mitochondrial Matrix recycle the same protons that are gaing that are coming into the nanomotors and actually use those citrate syn citrate and uh uh isocitrate for fatty acid production meaning that the fat that we get get from um grassfed animals are already low D team because the animals mitochondria start the process that protects the sports men's mitochondria in the sense that um mitochondria in the food chain or in in biology is practically a a set of of of potential dete depleting devices or scenarios when it comes to for example Human Performance and feeding or eating habits uh would be where this whole process starts and that that's why we we are very eager to to work with sports men to see how they perform using various um nutritional guidelines uh to see how they are able to overcome certain challenges and and that's true with um emergency workers as well so it seems that um because of the biochemistry because of the reactions and the water recycling um scenarios in mitochondria this process of Dum depletion or regulation for that matter is a overarching biochemical set of reactions that starts with the animals that we eat or the food source that we eat and then it kind of multiplies as we move in in the human system and cells of how the Lum uh intake or the Lum food that we eat can actually help mitochondrial functions and maintain health for that matter and how you can use this for a better medical understanding of um overcoming chronic disease um epidemics like in the United States now there is a huge kind of a a movement based on the Kennedy approach of food is responsible for the chronic epidemics disease epidemics in the United States now if you look at the real picture about 60 70% of especially the population over 50 have chronic diseases of some sort that includes diabetes obesity unfortunately cancer Alzheimer's Parkinson's and the list is is very long and now they recognize that actually the food the nutrition the food source is one of the the basic components of this chronic disease epidemics and it seems that that if anything then dut toomics can provide a better understanding of how these epidemiological Trends are uh kind of developing in front of our eyes why everybody believes that like nut nutritional guidelines are appropriate um not really we do know that and in fact if you look at Nicole kin's scoping review who graduated the Masters the student that we talked about um that's her project she's from the Nutrition department and for that matter it was very key to to see how this publication kind of review can scope out the real role of nomics in human nutrition and how it can be used to develop further medical Diagnostics and also therapeutic approaches to tackle these these unfortunate um Trends in in public health and this is I think after all by now it's it's a good and very easy to see Trend in medical biochemistry and theonomics and this is where we are it's kind of a a a cusp of kind of understanding it and taking it further to translational and eventually to the bed side and this is why we are so happy about these new developments hey everyone really happy to announce a new sponsor for the show and for everybody down in Australia Stockman steaks who are delivering highquality grass-fed and finished pasture raised beef and other meats flash frozen and vacuum sealed to Door something I've been enjoying a lot of myself recently as well they also have a great range of special items such as high fat keto mints and carnivore beef and organs mints with liver kidneys and beef heart as well so use code cha today for free order of beef mints or another specialty gift along with your order at Stockman steaks.com Au and I'll see you over there thanks guys yeah that's great I really do like um how how Robert Kennedy Jr uh has been poting out you know something that that you know we all have uh been trying to get out there there for a number of years now that you know that this this epidemic in in this Health crisis pandemic really uh is is largely being contributed by eating the wrong things and it's damaging us it's damaging our biology we're and we're seeing the manifestations of that in in our Health Care system and and the well we put a huge work in this and we spoke a few times you I probably mention you that we live only three miles in the used to live in tre mil in Los Angeles he's in damasco Canyon and and I was in can Canyon so it's it's uh and I I I spoke with with some of his crew members just to describe this scenario so and how food nutrition uh is part of maybe is is one of the major uh causing factors in this uh chronic disease epidemics because if you compare this is what he likes to bring up as an example when when his father was was killed in in 68 chronic disease epidemics was less than 10% 7% of the Aging population in the United States or in the general population and night it's it's about 10 fold of that meaning that it's 60 70% I mean in the last 40 years so something must have happened and and apparently since nutrition changed so much from natural food sources to processed food and because of the the quality not only Purity but also the D toomics or the D content of the food that the general population consumes seems to be a major player a major factor so this is why we guide these college courses and these scoping reviews just to have this effort not just by looking at Food related poisons meaning that agricultural fertilizers or or or pesticides or or weed killers whatever they use in in farming practices GM more practices but also look at more specifically of how they affect Dum content of food and how this change increase in in D duom or Dum food content can contribute to this um um process of uh developing more chronic diseases and not only one but several chronic disease in in in given individuals unfortunately and how that can be addressed from the from the medicine from the from from the medical point of view and um what can be done after all uh to improve the situation and hopefully we can come up with good answers obviously right now the election process in the US is shifted um interest in other areas so practically we have the main pillars of um how we going to move forward um but it it is now a AC active actively pursued agenda of of the Kennedy team and we are helping them uh to to achieve their their goals after all putting detonics on the plate practically that's that's our our job right now oh that's great so when was this that you you were able to get in touch with him and his Camp was that recently uh we've been working ever since the first email was probably in 2020 all right March April then we met a few times in in Los Angeles and um very good and then I discussed D toomics with his team and and also Dr senf Stephanie sen from from MIT who is part of my medical and scientific team of D toomics investigation she did she does really incredible work uh based on on glyphosate GMO and uh microbiome and and dtin omics the regulatory biochemical processes behind how D team is regulated in our body we do publish papers together she's also uh part of of this team and she also had podcast with Dr Brian hooker who is the lead investigator in Doc in kenedy's um Robert Jor Kennedy Junior's Steam and and so we are working very close to to provide all necessary information from the medicine biochemistry related set of arguments that can actually help this effort greatly because this this need to be this needs to be addressed um sooner or later more efficiently because you know these supplements these food items these process food industry approach is not a solution to to anything for that matter so we we are we are providing nutritional and we know in fact the carnivore natural carnivore feeding lifestyle is is the solution to this maybe if you move to politics with this or economy maybe with a dunum tax on food meaning that if it's not only kilo calories and carbohydrates and fat content and Chip packs and you know in Europe there are all kind of taxes now food we should probably add the tomb content to the food labels and um just to see how that changes these industrial processes that currently have no idea how the tomb content changes based on these processes and and see if that changes these chronic epidemics chronic disease epidemics so we have we have ideas um we have I would say plans for that matter we do know how to approach this this problem now based on and this is practically just a a huge effort but but we would like to provide all the Diagnostics and all the Therapeutics options if you if you will that can address more totally this whole problem because it's not only the United States now it's it's also in Europe meaning that Western diet brings the Western disease you know epidemics if you look at European populations they are not better off in fact there are some very scary Trends in public health including chronic diseases so we are trying to kind of right this this wave of you know medical or epidemiological evaluations of how poror it is than it was 40 50 years ago what changed in the meantime High changed food processing and and and so on agricultural habits and and if you look at um ked's program food water are practically hand inand and and actually metabolic water the quality of metabolic water is our primary goal to that's our Prime goal to bring this into this whole picture and metabolic water Dum content which our body produce as long as we live and as long as we oxidize food uh the Dum content which is easy to measure from breath human breath um should be part of the the workup scenarios that um we can actually use for um treatments or therapeutic or nutritional guidelines hopefully that can that can help to bring down the the rate of chronic diseases because now it's not only the Aging population but it's actually younger and younger individuals when I was at UC I was with the Department of Pediatrics and we saw two three four years old kids with t diabetes so and obesity unfortunately so it's it's it's it's quite I would say scary in the sense that uh chronic diseases are now now are also part of the younger populations and and usually the biological behavior of those diseases is is is is actually worse than in the older population so now we can see younger kids 16 17 with lugar's disease which is really just a devastating situation I get phone calls almost even though I don't do directly Medical Therapeutics type of work I'm a scientist I'm a teacher I'm I don't give medical advice I just teach dut toomics and put it in certain context but people call me and people want to know what's happening in you know in the their families that they don't really know how to approach simply because this young population is not supposed to develop some of those diseases that now they do and so we put them on Carnivore lifestyle I do have friends in Hungary who actually pasture gray cows in in Hungary meaning that these are not just domesticated but these are ancient Hungarian animals they can survive in like almost like half desert situations because of they're built and they produce low duum natural food fat sources for these we have a camp every year where we bring in like people who had medical challenges and and got much better or healed uh based on Carnivore D to depleting lifestyle we do you have the Pol medicine Zia Clemens you probably uh interviewed her I mean they do fantastic work just simply obtaining identifying and kind of testing those food sources that can be used therapeutically and and we are happy to to have people without medicine uh without supplements um we are happy to work with sports people who actually do perform better uh we do have Andrea seros who a triple jumper athlete and she just she's a world champion now um Esther put her on a Carnival D du depleting laugh and she's a world champion senior and she also keep the word record in triple jump so it's listen it kind of it speaks for itself we really don't have to um do much other than um help people to to kind of stay with this uh feeding habits meaning that to eat carnivore as much as possible from a good source grass fat Source we know how discriminate against Dum and as long as d little of water can be recycled in mitochondria and the fat Source because citrate synthes and other citrate Shadows provide us loaded to Fat Source through animal so it's kind of it's not only a food chain but it's also a d d depleting food chain so there are now different kind of approaches to this whole idea we do uh provide cooking sessions well Jia and and her team provides these cooking sessions so we United do toomics with the PO medicine effort and we also brought in the Hungarian natural scientist where I'm the U Vice uh chair of the medical and and health um Society here in the hungan um it's it's practically a the oldest Hungarian Natural Sciences organic iation that also try to ex explore the these scenarios and actually teach young like students and and Elementary from elementary school up just to see how we can and how early we can start teaching du toomic and nanomotors functions they love these little spinning mitochondri or nanomotors that g a d team and there's just it's it's fun to talk to kids and kind of happen through the first steps of of of climbing the kind of learning um you know steps of how to understand their own body better and how to select and how to live for like a better life without chronic diseases or the potential of De or how to reverse those in specially young ages so it's it's quite interesting to see how we can have doctors and and families together just to obtain Better Health yeah well that's great so is is there an optimal level of dyum that people uh that that that you guys have found or that people should should uh try to strive for so we we we believe that we actually do analysis breath analysis just to see where DM is we we believe that the safe range in your bread uh Vapor um measuring Dum it's in the range of below 140 definitely PPM parts per million parts per million is that how many dum dum or deuterons there are in a million hydrogens and it's not a very common isotope yet the the the damage that it delivers that that has to be controlled um meaning that even a few Dum can even almost like every Dum counts when he gets into the body simply because it can break delicate proteins nanomotors but it's important for cartilage health and Bone collagen uh stability and strength so for for that matter we have to leave our body to control Dum and kind of shift it to the places where it's necessary I I usually describe this to our students it's dtim is more like your Jew um uh in your house you only put him on at certain occasions yet they are very valuable but if you have too much of it and somebody figures out they're going to break in your house simply because it's so it's it's it has a certain role it's it's a functional stabilized do that your body knows how to regulate it's a little bit of fasting it's natural carnivore lifestyle and feeding or eating is what controls du to most efficiently and your body knows what to do with it you don't have to and you should not overload this simply because when there's too much of it this kind of dis reggulator biochemical reaction architectures and and for that matter your body functions differently especially if you are doing sports or or you challenge your buddies you can get injur injur easier they don't heal as fast and for a sportsman it's not only the performance but it's also the preparation process is just as important as and you know who know this better than you know you you as as as a leading Sports Personnel who have been trying this and have been doing this for for a long enough time to to know enough of of how important nutrition is in sports for that matter how important it is to understand what can you bring in your body to perform in a certain way and you can test this not only through breath test but also there are various other strength um durability to be able to focus make certain decisions quick enough and there are so many we used to work with Brett Hundley who is the who started with Green Bay Packers as the quarterback and um he lived uh for three three and a half months in 2019 he was uh living in in our house in in uh uh Angeles and and we did put him on the team depleting DEET of water and and he improved some 177% with his they measured on C what is it one of the sport ESPN sports his um how fast he throws the ball and they have these moving objects that he had to throw the ball with different lights and so on and and there was significant Improvement in his port performance as a as a quarterback so it's it's really kind of fun to see how this can after all serve not only the health of people who suffer from chronic diseases but also how I can improve Sports Performance how can actually help students to obtain degrees and turn their entire department around simply because of the the the the reasoning and the clear biochemist the clarity and the crisp kind of argu set of arguments behind dut toomics if you take the time sit down a little bit look at the TC cycle look at a few nanom Motors you you I mentioned this to you that Paul Boer he was at UCLA who got the Nobel price in 97 and I think you know his son um Grant well I know yeah I know his his daughter and his uh grandson her son was my best friend uh as a kid when we were down in California and then he and then another one of uh Dr boer's um grandsons who was uh I think he was the eldest of those children they had five children uh ended up working um at UCLA as well as a biochemist because it's in his talks and and in conversations he was always very particular to mention this is a very unique enzyme reaction when you actually rotate protons a number of them based on the in those nanomotors there are 9 to 12 protons can ride any a given time and it's it's a very unique feature of the because when I went to medical school in 1980 s when I graduated nobody could tell our biochemistry Professor could not tell how ATP is made right so they did not know nanomotors they did not this just practically it was atps made in the mitochondria we don't really know how there is a membrane potential of protons outside and inside there's a gradient but they didn't know exactly how atps made the through these rotating nanomotors and Paul Boer was I think he died in 2018 but um he was the one who actually discovered that actually rotat is a rotating enzyme this ATP synthes that transfer these protons into the mitochondrial Matrix and metabolic water is produced with the help of oxygen that is coming in through air hydrogen come through food and ATP synthesized in the in the me meantime now if your body needs heat in in brown fat tissue there are no nanomotors but there are these uncoupling decoupling proteins that actually let the protons just to shoot into the mitochondrial Matrix and water is formed and one M Water Production produces some 280 kle energy so heat is generated ATP is generated so the most efficient way of running your m in your body is practically using these nanomotors and this is our addition to this science without duum as much as possible so practically once you explain this very crisp very visual scenario people start to understanding like oh okay so this and this is what happened with Dr an Davis Nichols Professor once she had the opportunity to actually and she did f fantastic work in that sense I mean um after all you just be able to explain this I would say very visual scenario with these rotating animals and people would say like all all of a sudden this lie bul kind of goes off you know it's just kind of lights up and then you can just say Okay so those nanomotors are where my ATP is originated from and this is how our heart muscle functions um that's why we use now a heart reader to test for Dum indirectly as a surrogate marker and this is what we start doing with Alex McDonald just to see truly how his lifestyle his nutrition his his carnivore eating and his fasting for that matter can actually limit Dum in his Mondo nanomotors and how he can actually accomplish these extreme ping challenges in the fasting State because people ran marathons before um and you know they did it under certain times but I don't know anyone if he did this five times in five consecutive days in the fasting State and we want to know we would like to know how this is possible how this can be done um extra like ultramarathons 100 kilometers how that can be transferred from nature to understanding the sports performance for them better because there are actually in Africa there are Hunters that actually run after their prey they Hades what they do they run for two days they just follow the the her they can actually go after a lion and they eat lions simp because after all the lion just kind of gives up they have their little arrows their their um weapons which are really not deadly when it comes to fighting like lions but but running for two days through bushes they are able to conquer any kind of you know prey simply because they just get tired but they don't because they are in a carnivore lifestyle so in a certain Pace you can run four or maybe I can run four days I never tried maybe I will first I want to go up as high as possible mountains without supplement oxygen like U um Mr Ballinger did in 2017 going up to the Himalaya because his story is also interesting because he couldn't do it on eating pizza and and P supplements I bet he always had to carry oxygen with him meaning that he was not able to climb up to the mountainous without supplement oxygen until he started eating a carnival lifestyle and that was natural food natural Carnival lifestyle and then he was able to to to accomplish that that was his lifelong dream but listen if you understand peroxisomal mitochondrial cross talk and you understand sleep a much better you understand apno much better you understand why dissolved oxygen in not necessarily just hemoglobin bound oxygen can help your metabolism this is what happens at night you can actually just kind of go without breathing in and out simply because there's enough dissolved oxygen to run the mitochondrial and the peroxy or beta oxidation process um with recycling oxygen we are talking about the molecular O2 and in the meantime you break down the hydrogen peroxide to calories for more metabolic water so it's a it opens up this D toomics and mitochondrial proxo subate oxidation opens up a whole set of of of possible biochemical scenarios how to improve the system and how to explain some of the um sleep patterns some of the breed breeding patterns some of the fasting patterns like when you really just use your own body's resources and if you have been preparing your body using a lum lifestyle or eating um habit then then you you you are able to perform and overcome some incredible challenges right and so when the dyum level gets oh actually just first what what is it about a carnivore lifestyle specifically that that gives you an optimal level of dyum I think it's I think it's great that so many people like yourself like myself we've all come to sort of an ancestral approach to eating uh from very different Avenues but you know it's all all roads lead to Rome it's very interesting that from all these different metrics and angles we're finding hey this is actually uh very beneficial to eat this way um but what what do you what is the the um what's special about a carnivore diet that optimizes dyum that that's the key question here uh who who who can answer that then you know you you pretty much understand the best from the medical biochemistry point of view what howal is to just to Define that so because we talked about Dum and hydrogen Dum being twice as large and twice as heavy as far as the atomic nucleus is concerned the best way to separate first you have to separate because they are all mixed up it's like if you think about your school kids out in the kindergarten there's only a few kids that are just to describe this whole scenarios that are heavier than the others the best way to kind of find who they are you make them run and who is less kind of going with the crowd that's Dum or that's the heavy guy in that sense so Nature has physical methods to separate these TW but this process is too slow simply because you have to make them run you have to kind of move them around um the best way to separate them is practically to push them through a revolving door and who don't fit you can actually very quickly you can just kind of separate out the heavy atoms or the heavy molecules from from the from the from the set of molecules and the revolving nanomotors or these ATP synthes or ATP hydras nanomotors are the revolving doors in biology to separate hydrogen from theum very quickly very fast very rapidly practically it's it's the automate way of doing this the fastest way to separate hydrogens and D Dum now the carnivore lifestyle is practically a kind of set of of of uh species and reactions biochemical reactions that start with the food source that already uses these nanomotors to separate out as many Dum from grass they eat through their microbiome through their long very long gut through their for stomachs through their reu and redig esting their food so to gate out theum from grass that needs a large um herbivore animal that produces theb depleted meat and fat because of this Dum gating mechanism in in their mitochondria and they use their TC cycle citrate syntase which takes in Matrix water which is already due to depleted into fat and then you eat that and you burn it back into metabolic water is going to be the te depleted below 140 below 135 PPM most I would say beneficiaries below 125 but it's very hard to to achieve nowadays because of the process food items we believe you we can do that um we are thinking of showing this uh through experiments but again since this is part of our research agenda we go one paper by by the other meaning that we have to provide peer reviewed scientifically established guidelines and translational kind of set of of evidence how this whole system works so practically the food chain is practically a dierum discriminating scenario when it comes to the Predators and the Predators are able to overperform almost always their prey as far as speed agility to strength and so on because if if if you look at like poor lion females they can bring down a water of Buffalo if you know if it works out for them practically because they are fast because they are able to maneuver very efficiently and this is what the carnival lifestyle is practically to to be in top of this D depleting food chain if if you will and because mitochondria already discriminate Dum in uh the animals if they are grass-fed and not grain fed then taking this these biochemical steps to all the top which are carnivores like us then you're able to work with a relatively low Dum food source especially burning the fat fat long chain saturated animal fat into metabolic water and because of this continuous discrimination or gating out processes eventually you end up with a very low Dum source that your microbiome would actually further du deplete for you meaning that your your gut bacteria collect more Dum even from the low Dum food and they actually recycle in certain forms amino acids and there especially Proline and hydroxyproline that can that can go into bone collagen where the te is needed for strength so you're going to become and this is really interesting you you're going to become a sports man or or or someone who can perform um and your body weight body fat content can be kind of optimized in a way that that that surely you deliver no damage to your mitochondria even though you challenge your body and you use your mitochondria for example in a long Marathon run or a ultramarathon running 100 kilometers or if you are in Africa if you're a hi um tribe then you can run four days simply because you are on top of the food chain but it's also top of the depleting set of biochemical reactions to make metabolic water uh for your own body for your in your own mitochondria and this is only available if you are a carnivore eating simply because if you eat plants those are not the team depleted and if you challenge your body while you are not the te depleted enough you're actually destroying a lot of nanomotors you are asking for lactate production you're asking for muscle inflammation you are asking for joint inflammation simply because your body is not operating under a optimal or low Dum environment and if you force to T into your Monda simply because you challenge your muscles and you do physical performance then you may not end up in Better Health simply because the food source that you consume plants or processed food or supplements you don't know the source you don't know where it's coming from you don't know what's the team content after all and if you go to a gym and you start looking at a TV screen and you start running in like blue light eating some supplements you don't really know exactly where they are from with what du te content you you actually destroying nanomotors at a higher rate if you would just be sitting home and and watch like the TV like a couch potato and that's why Couch Potato We Believe live longer I mean it's funny as it is but but those people has when you look at the lifespan it's not quality but if you look at their lifespan is not necessarily shorter but actually there were some studies showing that these cash potatoes can live pretty long nothing is wrong with that don't misunderstand me it's I'm happy you know if as long as you're happy with your life yet quality matters to me I like to do my push-ups I like to do my situps I like to walk the doggy I like to be be actively involved in in in research and teaching and I I like to interact with with with people who understand these scenarios and understand the benefit the biochemical benefit it's not econ I I can't really give you any I can't do this for money it's kind of a funny SC I can't give you any supplements or any pills or or anything that helps you in this process but I can teach you why and how the carnivore lifestyle it's a natural again food s the source of of your meat and fat is also very important that's just as important as what you eat where this source is where the s or where is the where where your fat and meat is from a loed natural grass-fed pasture food source is the optimal for anything that it comes you know that comes to human life that that's that's how simple it is and if somebody wants the biochemical reasons or the scenario and this is why we publish these papers in the medical literature in open form those are open for discussions please if you have questions or if you have concerns or if you have other ideas you can always comment please do so and we are happy to answer those questions in front of everybody the the the the reason why we do this and this is people ask me to do podcast and and and and so on and I'm very happy to talk to anybody anytime it's just when we can schedule but again what is more important is just to be involved this discussion based on peer-reviewed scientific articles especially translational arm would be helpful for Physicians patients care providers and so on so this which is happening now has to be part of political agenda like the kened you know agenda it D toomics is part of our life it doesn't matter if we know this or we don't know this if we if we are aware of it or not the team is there regardless if we see it or not you feel it because if it affects your nanomotors and your heart functions but um have to be aware of it and if you would like to know how this happens and why we claim and that's what's the most important here why claim that only the carnivore lifestyle natural grass-fed pastured carnivore lifestyle is the nutritional guide that you should consider I'm not saying follow but you should consider to understand in all possible context and scenarios we have the evidence we have the reasons for that that that's why I'm a a medical biochemist I'm very happy to discuss this with anyone very happy to have help people to understand this scen know and this is why I thank this podcast to talking to another Physicians especially you who is involved in sports and you talk to so many people in in so many different areas and and so many context but the after all at the end of the day my mission is to understand precisely and to be able to explain this not not only to my students but also to crew members firefighters emergency workers Sports people Physicians patients who want to learn about D toomics oh what is your optimal eating to maintain Health now if you're still you know facing medical problems first your dtin level has to be brought down below 135 PPM if if we if we if we done that and if you still come back it's very likely that you are not going to see you ever again but if if it happens then let's do some specific diagnostic processes and find out what's wrong with you because just based on your nutrition there shouldn't be any problem with your system with your body or your performance or your sports injury injury to go away or or you know practically to heal faster to to just like do it in I I I usually eat once a day because I like to be hungry a little bit it's not really hunger but you kind of just kind of keep your eyes open for the best food source and when you find one you have some you don't have to over stuff yourself you don't eating is really you're much better adapted to low food intake simply because our metabolism has no biological safety threshold it's not like like our feur or or a leg bone that that can actually support eight times of your body weight we don't have to metabolism doesn't have to work with or shouldn't be working with eight times of the food energy that it can process or metabolize or oxidize because there's a little strict constraint here is that the able oxygen and high delivery to your tissues because that guides your your energy production so if you understand this constraint how it works most efficiently to support your ATP synthesis and your mitochondrial Health that's the key to understand Health in general and the most optimal way of doing this is practically a carnival natural grass fat pasture lifestyle nice so you mentioned collagen in certain connective tissue that has higher levels of dyum and this is sort of natural your body sequesters out and separates out the the dyum and the areas that it needs more and and areas that it needs less of what is it about collagen and connective tissue that requires more dyum so that's that's also a very interesting topic simply because Dr Roman zubarev who is at the Caroline SC Ute he was in Budapest in 2019 and he was my chair and I was his chair when he was giving his talk and he was talking about amino acids that accumulate duum especially Proline and hydroxyproline which is 20% in collagen 20 25% in collagen it's the most common amino acid in collagen and in the meantime we know bone and collagen how strong and how kind of flexible yet very strong and tight compartments make these tissues connective tissues strong and and and able to kind of withstand phenotypic challenges we'll talk about gray seals uh peragine Falcons that can Falcons that can actually dive like 400 kilometer per per hours in air and they have to slow down in the last 50 meters of their dive or these stoop simply because otherwise they would not be able to catch their prey their prey would fall apart practically if they catch so because of the this very FR very like huge physical friction their wings are exposed or or if you look at the gray gra seal they have to escape from white sharks from killer whales they have to dive 100 meters in matter of of of of minutes or seconds their bone structures have to be very strong so for for that matter collagen uses high amounts of Dum and now we are talking about 300 15 320 PPM versus 125 PPM in the optimal SC so almost 2 three two to three times more D TM in in um in bone collagen to be able to withstand those physical forces and demands these animals are phenotypically exposed to meaning that they are either eaten by the killer whales or they escap die fast enough so their bones can withstand it and their Cottages their F more bones are loaded with with the tum and that's true with the Falcon now if you look at the swan which just kind of swims on lakes and there's no really Predator that chase them they du te level in their collagen is 150 PPM so there's really no difference when it comes to the environmental Dum level so it seems that dum is a phenotype related Atomic component of of of strength durability and to be able to perform in extreme environments and there was a very interesting paper in the proceedings of the national Academia of Science of the United States or pnes USA describing differences in fatty acid duum content in tumor cells compared to the water that they were harvesting these liver cancer cells and they published a study in the pnes and then what they saw is that even in a in a tumor cell when things don't go too well meaning that they provide they divide constantly and they form very bony structures meaning that they are really truly different in touch if you're a surgeon and you Opera in brain tumors you can tell their their touch is different than than the brain tissue and that's especially true of of um of skeletal or or connective tissue tumors so practically they show this very broad distribution of Dum among and between cell compartments and molecules fatty acids and water in tumor cells so we wrote a letter to the editor of this pns article and we told him listen this is actually a very general um scenario or platform as far as du is distributed in biological tissue is it's practically a phenotype related matter of how much Dum certain amino acids accumulate and that determines the phenotype so we wrote a letter to the editor that intermolecular inter molecular and intercompartmental duum variations defined by biological adaptation and they published it which means that it's really this is the second kind of most sided journals on this planet and now we have an argument of how duic or Dum related Sciences can explain the diversities that they describe from Princeton in the TB content in tumor cells of fatty acids and they can differentiate between among oxidative metabolism versus fermentation based on these Dum mapping or Dum maps of molecules in these tumor cells so we argued immediately that listen theum has a very fundamental role in defining these phenotypes bone collagen is strong because of the 15 times harder to remove theum from a chemical bond when it's in a prolin and a hydroxyproline Dr Stephanie SF is doing a great job to Define these kind of diversities in the T distribution based on microbiome and with Dr um zubarev Rolan Roman zubarev he is the Carolin investigator who studied graay seal and some other species had dtim distributed in their bodies and found find these high D depositing uh collagen tissues in grals but not in the swan so they started immediately thinking of how can first of all do teum go above Natural Abundance meaning that what biochemical reactions can collect due to because if you look at physics laws of physics you should not be able to exceed the ceiling of a stabilized stove concentration uh looking at physical forces it's practically if you climb mountains you cannot climb higher than 8,000 or 9,000 meters simply because there's no higher mountains physically you cannot go higher then and that's practically the end of the equation but not in biology in biology yes you can in fact that defines certain unique phenotypes and what the biochemical reactions that are they involved that's what we described in this pnas letter to the editor and that was a immediate hit again because it's it's a it's a very important argument they usually sit on these papers for about a month two months uh they have to digest these they have to talk to senior editors like what do you what should we do with this set of authors because I I don't write these papers by myself I always kind of do a draft and then we all put in our own approach and our own vision of how this is possible from different angles and it's it's really interesting to see how after all Dum in bone and collagen and this is what we do now we look at different species b b based on their weight based on their size I just got some samples from British Colombia from jacoline uh the Canadian uh friend of ours who changed from a processed food scenario to I think you talked to her already or you you are planning to talk to her or she yeah not yet she moved from Toronto to British Columbia if I remember well and they bought a a land uh just to grow grass feed uh to pasture uh animals and and that's what they eat now we we are measuring the tomb level in those animals and and also in in certain products in in in their environment and her chronic diseases are gone meaning that listen she couldn't move farther from the house than the garden and her husband had to make this little chair that she could she mov in the garden to kind of take care of certain things and now she's making 10 cows a day um eating a carnivore lify and all her diseases are chronic diseases are gone and practically when you put all these and it starts with understanding how collagen how bones how skeletal structures and and con active and supportive tissues collect Dum certain amount of Dum that is enough for their environmental phenotypic challenges their lifestyle and how this can be fit in and with other um biochemical kind of reactions involving the microbiome involving um certain organ specific metabolic scenarios like brain heart muscle skeletal muscle functions and how these uh scenarios make a whole body to function better because after all it's really a very complicated system simply riding on a very few denominators and duum in food and how you regulate that seems to be one of the major players in this area so this is why I'm kind of so happy to be this far in this alley simply able to not only talk about this but also publish this in the preview very strong medical and scientific literature in an open form so anybody has questions or anybody has input or anybody notice anything that we should be focused ing on or have questions or have an another idea or have some ideas we are very happy to discuss these in public in front of the whole scientific community in an Open Access form because I think that's the best way to kind of move this field forward yeah yeah I think I agree um you said something interesting earlier as well that um that that the shadian Rhythm and uh can actually affect your dyum levels as well did I hear that right yeah that's right um so hey guys just want to take a second to thank our sponsor at carnivore bar I don't promote many products because honestly all you need to be healthy is to just eat meat for those times that you're out hiking road tripping or stuck at work and you want nutritious snack that is just meat fat and salt if you want it the carnivore bar is a great option so I like this product not because it's just pure meat but also because I want the carnivore Market to thrive as well and the more we support meat only products the more meat only products there will be available in the mainstream so if this sounds like something you'd like to get behind check it out using my discount code Anthony to get 10% off which also applies to subscriptions giving you 25% off total all right thanks guys that's how I got involved with firefighters in D toomic simply because they retire early the sleep deep is practically nothing else to just to regulate the T through proxis you need to get in ketosis to be able to deplete the tomb efficiently and sleep is the best way to do this simply because you are not eating anything even though you're hungry you burned up all the sugar after two three two two three hours of sleep uh because of these rapid side movements and muscle um activities you burn up your sugar very efficiently and very quick and your glycogen to some extent and you have to start burning fat to have to get in ketosis to actually sleep through the night meaning that um sleep is practically to get in to ketosis deep enough that you can start a new day and because you're not eating so you're not able to load your body with carbohydrates and those carbohydrates run out after a short period of time I mean Rel after a few hours now if you disrupt a cycle if you wake up in in the middle of the night because there's emergency what happens is your body immediately reverses these mechanisms because of adrenaline and because of the the superal gland hormones you start burning glucose again you start mobilizing glucose from your glycogen store and what is worse than that once your emergency situation is over meaning that you return to their base you can't sleep for the rest of the night so let's get a donut I mean or let's turn on the TV because these shifts are you know it's you know being an emergency worker is not as simple as just you go drive around a little bit and then you go back to sleep no it's those are you know very challenging situations and you may not be able to go back to sleep because of your adrenaline because you've been in a fire you were saving people's life you were cutting cars in pieces to rescue people so that's that's a different scenario so you not only disrupt your night sleep but you also disrupt this D depleting ketogenic metabolic adaptation to that is part of your sleep cycle you you are not reaching ketosis enough especially if you eat in the process that's the worst you can do and if it's a donut that's even like not only disrupt but actually you start loading your system with carbohydrates and unknown source of Dum that your body really is not prepared to deal in that situation so because of these heart challenges they can retire early but early retirement is really not a solution to the problem where where you already delivered such damage to these mitochondria because of these repeatedly disrupted sleep cycles and they do 12 hour shifts you th they do 12 hour shifts several times a week and because of these disrupted regular sleep cycles they start developing chronic diseases and some of them are unfortunately belong to these very hard to to treat with medications including diabetes obesity and what is the the most I would say disadvantageous situation is is is failing heart so because your heart operates differently than than your skeletal muscle skeletal muscles give get in a a nerve signal a moton neuron delivers a signal through AET Coline signaling through through through the skeletal muscle so you can contract your muscle efficiently and when it's done you sit down and and rest a little bit now heart muscle operates differently it doesn't depend only on ATP on contract during contraction but it also floods the the cell with calcium meaning that calcium because of the conformal conformal changes in those heart muscle proteins actines they actually contract but it also requires a a an iron influx which is calcium in that matter that during the relaxation of the heart muscle needs to be pumped out and that's also an ATP hydrolase related it's also nanomotor related process so while your skeleton muscle only needs ATP while Contracting heart muscle needs ATP or nanomotor functions when it relaxes too so it's both the contraction and so it's kind of a never stopping scenario to use those nanomotors if you know in medicine when you want to challenge somebody metabolically they put them on a bike they give mask you know and measure carbon dioxide exhalation and oxygen inhalation and they calculate metabolic functions from there so you have to make muscles work continuously to be able to determine their their metabolic activities not with the heart muscle the heart muscle needs ATP and it contracts and relaxes um all the time so we started using this little heart reading machine which measures the inotropic slope of a heart contraction in 2 minutes in a row about 140 times and based on these slopes we can determine how efficiently heart muscle is able to contract and how the next contraction is able to be the same in strength based on the calcium e flux from the cell of the ATP a function meaning that we can tell how efficiently your nanomotors operate in your body uh that is easiest to measure um when it comes to heart muscle function and if you do these measurements based on these inotropic slope changes and the regularity you can actually use this as a surrogate marker of how these nanomotors are able to rotate in your body and that's mostly we believe is related to the tume content of your tissues and we use this as a surrogate again this is not a dum direct duum measurement like we do this in bread but actually we can use this data we can use these slopes one after the other in two minutes we do this 140 times so so practically this is a very easy and simple and online remote U approach to to to measure Dum indirectly in in your body and and this is why we start this type of uh measurements with um hey people with sports people with firefighters with because in the firefighters if you disrupt sleep night regularly circadium rhythms unfortunately and this is what what's really interesting about their their work is that it actually affects your heart muscle dominantly meaning that some of these firefighters they not retiring only because they can it's because they by then they really do have some some heart challenges or some how challenges that affect their heart so this is what we are trying to address um and this is the important I would say um for emergency workers in general this is this is something that that we would like to provide as a potential solution first of all once they return to the base or to the unit once they return to the unit they are not supposed to eat anything so there's a lock on the refrigerator um if they come back to the unit and they have to drain that needs to be du T deeply the water um if they are hungry then we would just recommend of bear with your kind of hunger long enough you reach maybe like morning hours where you would eat something that is grass fat something that is animal so stay away from processed food stay away from sweet eats stay away from carbohydrates which is during the night your body is not supposed to be exposed to any food especially carbohydrates and it's supposed to burn your fat and deplete theum provided that the fat was the right Source now the problem with the emergency situations is that mitochondria and the TC cycle the crap andur cycle can work either in the catabolic way or it can work in anabolic way in Biochemistry we call this reductive carox if that sets in especially under a stressful situation um where your physical demand is increased then unfortunately your fat deposits your fat pole can also be dum loaded because the reverse way of using mitochondrial biochemical reactions do not uh deplete theum so and that happens in emergency situations your mitochondria function differently because of the the physical strength that you have to you're in an oxygen tank especially if you're in the Smoke SM so you can't it's a very challenging demanding metabolic situation and for that matter you have to go in in that situation with the lowest Dum as possible and keep that as low as possible during the night to preserve your health in the long run so that's that's the idea so they can retire early but they still have good quality of life this this is our primary goal here yeah good so well thank you for all that that was that was amazing um so what's uh what are the future plans uh that you have for your research um so we I think we did the academics the Publications the scientific arguments the evidence are out there so now we are looking for applications or we are positioning dut toomics in in the pnas letter that we wrote We name d toomics duple which is Dum depletion we talk about the human dome which needs to be as which is as important as the human genome or the human protome the human Dome is just as important simply because MRI Mass MRI images can determine ratios of hydrogen and and or or protons and neutrons in tissues that's how those images and are generated you know of course there are you know electron and proton spins and so on and delocalization scenarios which are nuclear Quantum effects so I I don't want to go that deep into this into this field but practically duom or the human dome which is now in the PN letter and I'm I'm very happy the editors was not overnight but eventually understood of such a prominent scientific journal of high important of the human D know this for that matter of how much Dum is in your body how much Dum you can discriminate and use for building collagen and and Bones which is kind of interesting that your body can and this is very old text from the Old Testament that um um actually actually the Old Testament already asked how can bone develop in the woman's W so simply how can a stronger tissue be formed in soft tissue I mean just to translate this to theonomics um uh re so so it's it's it's it's an old question in that sense that now we have the ways of explaining this by Proline and hydroxyproline dum enrichment which is in the 350 PPM range and that's going to provide a connective tissue that is strong enough to with inorganic material cuse calcium and phosphate to Form B bones that are actually still flexible enough they don't break break immediately so um it's not an osteoporotic so it's it's practically just it affects all areas of medicine it's part of all areas of medicine including Diagnostics Performance Health chronic disease and so on this needs to be brought in applied to different fields different scenarios different challenges and from there we can actually use this knowledge to tackle some of the epidemiological disease Trends chronic diseases and so on we think that this needs to be part of medical discussions need to be part of uh policym and decision making and it could be even part of let's say food quality assurance simply measuring food Dum content and just like you know any kind of bant or un isotope or you name it you can just test for it in the Under the Dome so or the human Dome umbrella so now we are actually applying this to various fields in medicine the basic science the arguments the evidence are already imprinted and embedded in the medical lature great oh that's great well uh Lao that was fantastic I I really enjoyed that it's always great to see you great to hear about the great work that you're doing thank you so much for coming on where can people find you see more of your work and and and um support you in any way yeah so I do have a website it's very easy to find it's laslo boros m.com um and our pap are available on my website but those can also be searched for uh in PubMed um you just put in my last name boros b o r oos and maybe Dr senf or um Dr kir acopos he is from Greece um we have two Italian colleagues um Dr priso and Dr brogna um they are proteom experts so if you look for my name in in Medline Boris LG you can see those papers and also my website I put all my podcasts I put all my conversations with a English transcript um so you can actually follow the trend of how theonomics developed I'm very thankful to all people who have Dr kots yourself um Esther and friends who actually have this and make this field uh better and larger in the sense that more applications are I'm very happy and thankful for the sportsmen firefighters emergency workers doctors colleagues and the list is if I forgot some if I forgot someone uh I apologize but practically it's been a 15 20 years of studying dut toomics and I'm I'm I'm very happy to say this at the end that nomics never let me down and you know regardless all the of all the challenges and I'm very happy that we could kind of provide a new technology a new way of looking at things and hopefully this can be part of everyday's thinking just like many other important um kind of talk processes you have to be a rare of Duty to be able to kind of design your day that's how I usually just approach this that's great thank you so much oh thank you it's been a pleasure as always um thank you everyone for joining I hope you enjoyed that as much as I did and I'll put those links uh Down Below in the link for Dr boros's uh website and you can check out more of his work there thank you all very much we'll see you next time thank you hey guys thank you very much for taking the time out to listen to what I had to say if you like it then please like And subscribe to my YouTube channel and podcast and if you're on YouTube then please hit that little bell and subscribe and that'll let you know anytime I have a new video out which should be every week if not more and if you could share this with your friends that would help me get the word out and let me know that you like what I'm doing thanks again guys