The BIGGEST LIES You've Been Told About Diet & Nutrition!

you know the the fact remains that these uh defense chemicals exist you can look them up they're they're readily available for people anyone to see you know now people saying okay well yes there are these defense chemicals because plants have these defense chemicals okay which ones are safe to eat how much of each one and which ones do you need to need to get nutrition you can't get full nutrition you cannot get full nutrition from a vegan diet cannot right so first of all that's a that's an inappropriate diet that's a bad diet if you can't even get basic nutrients from it How can any Nutri nutritionists argue for a diet that is lacking in nutrients that that that makes no sense they should lose their license at that point I mean makes no lose their nutritionist card anyway if you're if you're arguing for a diet that is deficient in nutrients you should not be allowed to give nutritional advice that's insane Dr Anthony chasy what an awesome pleasure it is to welcome you back to balance body radio yeah well thank you very much for having me it's great to see you it's such an honor to see you I've been able to meet you in person which has been awesome uh twice now um I Met You in San Diego when we were both attending the Symposium for metabolic Health which was amazing um the more surprising one was seeing you at low carb Denver which I was not expecting you were not on the list of presenters somebody had just got done presenting and then they did the panel discussion I was walking down the aisle to take a quick break from the conference and I look over and I see this tall tan dude and I literally did a triple take like I looked I'm like no and I looked again I'm like was that no and looked again I'm like holy [ __ ] it's anthy chaffy so cool it's great to meet you yeah no it was uh it was good like the Denver conference was great I you know I I I you know hadn't um planned to like talk there I was going to like moderate some of the panels but I I just I didn't know if i' would actually be able to make it there I didn't know if I'd be able to get the time off and and all that stuff so it was very last minute that I was actually able to go so I just went there as a you know as an observer um but yeah it was great it was a great conference yeah it really was not an easy schle for you to decide to come back to America it's literally like around the world isn't it like one of the Fest places from us yeah it is I mean it's it's yeah it's exactly on the opposite side of the world so it's um it's as far to far away as sort of anything is from Perth and um uh but it was fine because I I had I wasn't just going just for that conference I had a number of different uh events to to go do and also wanted to see my family and some friends and things like that so sort of rolled it into like a bigger trip and I was there for for a few weeks and uh and that was great so I had I had some other interviews like I was on uh the podcast with um um oh God I'm just completely blanking but anyway I did I did like a number of inperson uh podcasts um with Mark Bell Jesus why can I not remember that so I was on Mark Bell power project on that that which was great you know that was great he he invited me down to Sacramento and um uh so I it's down there on his podcast and yeah just had a great great chat and and was able to see my uncle Who's down there he's down sort of in that area and yeah just bounced around saw friends and family and got some work stuff done at the same time so it was a good trip that's amazing yeah good for you I love that podcast by the way it's one of my wife favor as well the power project really really good yeah yeah that's awesome very cool well um would like to talk to you today about some of the recent events that you've been involved with you've been very busy and done some very cool things recently before we do just in case somebody has been living under a rock can you tell the listener who you are and how you got involved with what you do now which is not only neurosurgery but also working with people on the carniv de yeah well I I've always been interested in medicine and in human nutrition as well it just goes hand inand with with health you know if you're not eating the right things you're not going to be healthy it's it's very as simple as that and so I always played Sports I always liked Sports and always wanted to excel in athletics and so I was interested in nutrition and you know eating the right way and all that stuff you don't really think about it too much even then I was learning okay you're supposed to eat this and you're supposed to do that but I wasn't as focused on it and and I didn't realize just how big of an impact it has on your health and your athletic performance especially but I taking biology and botany and cancer biology and all these different classes and we're just learning that uh you know we evolved as carnivores we're only eating meat and plants have defense chemicals and that's how they defend themselves this is ubiquitous throughout the entire plant kingdom that's why there is a plant kingdom they haven't been completely eaten away to extinction because they have defenses and uh even though they're stationary and they're just a Sitting Duck and prey for all bugs and insects and animals that would want to eat them they they don't die they actually do very well and that's because they have these internal defenses most of which are chemical most of which are toxic poison sort of defenses but there's there's are others as well and plants make about a million different chemicals most of those are to defend themselves against predation and just learning all this and learning how toxic plants were and I finally had a professor who was just instilling this in us and my cancer biology class and talking about all the carcinogens and everything like that that were in plants in normal plants not in the pesticides in the plants themselves because that's how they survive we put pesticides on so insects can't eat them but they make pesticides so that insects and animals can't eat them and so there's they actually make a lot more than that and so then the pesticides we spray on them and even then I was just like well but but but vegetables are still good for you though right and my professor just sort of looked at us and he just gave us a funny look and said you know I don't eat salads I don't eat vegetables I don't let my kids eat vegetables plants are trying to kill you so I was like right screw plants and I just stopped and my my health improved my athletic performance improved dramatically um but I even then I I still didn't attribute it to necessarily that I stopped drinking at the same time during the the rugby season and I I sort of attributed it to that like wow I feel so much better and of course that makes a huge difference but sort of thought it was was the drinking and it wasn't until years later that I realized that there was this 5year period that I just felt bulletproof like just a super human and um and I wasn't drinking during the rugby season after that but I never felt like that so I was like I didn't know what that was I didn't know how I lost that and I chocked it up to age maybe I wasn't approaching myself as hard even though I I was and I just didn't know about it I just didn't know what happened and then when I was was in my late 30s I was 38 just turned 38 and I sort of came across information and said no no humans actually just are carnivores as a species that's just what we evolved on one of the immutable laws of biology which is a hard science is laws of adaptation if your species have been adap has been exposed to something for millions of years then you are going to adapt to it and so if we've been eating meat for millions of years then we're obviously adapted to it well adapted to it we only started introducing plants and incorporating plants in our diet very recently 10,000 years that you know since we've eaten plants and to a large degree in places that have had agriculture very little before that if any um especially like in the Arctic Circle during ice ages what plants are there to eat there are none right you eat animals and so we are well adapted to eating meat we are not very well adapted to eating plants and plants have defense chemicals animals have defensive characteristics kinetic defenses they can run away they can fight you they have horns they have teeth they have claws they can they can physically fight back or run away or hide plants can't they're just sitting there right so different defenses so once you get an animal you can eat it pretty safely you know somebody might have a poison Sack or something like that or certain organs may be something you need to avoid but the meat is generally fine it's not the same with plants and so that's just something that I've just come to realize is that humans are carnivores that's the kind of animal we eat and we're adapted to eating meat there's nothing in meat that's dangerous to us and there are a lot of things dangerous to us in plants and we are not adapted to them and then I started thinking about that from the view of of a doctor and everything just started slotting into place everything made sense about why this massive rise and the prevalence of chronic dis diseases over the last 50 years over the last century certain things that just didn't exist a century ago now they're one of the main stays in modern medicine like Alzheimer's and heart disease um these things just just weren't even recognized as diseases all that long ago not very long ago now they're the main Killers now the main afflictions that we that we come across so I think that that's directly related to eating an inappropriate diet for our species and that's what I want to do I want to get people aware of that and so that they can eat a species appropriate diet and they can be well and they don't have to have these illnesses and sickness they don't have to be beholden to the multi-trillion dollar food industry and the multi- multi-trillion dollar pharmaceutical in Industry that they can just live their life and keep their money for themselves and doing things that make them happy and have a long healthy happy life that's my that's my goal dude that's awesome I love that I think I told you about one of the kiddos that I train he's like 15 years old um he does Motocross at a really high level and he was texting me earlier this week about plants and he was like remind me again what are the harms of plants um you could tell some adult was like pressing him on this topic and I was like well you know plants can be toxic in different ways here's a few chemicals like oxalates and lectins and um you know all all kinds of phytochemicals that they have and it can be harmful in different ways and I sent him our original episode that you and I did where you explain this really well you could tell this adult was saying like give me 10 reasons why plants are really bad for you and I'm like okay I'm not going to take the time to fight somebody through a 15-year-old kid about the harms of plants but here's the episode we did like like have this guy watch it it's an hour long it'll be fine he immediately text back and said the guy said that like there's tons of people out there making videos and he can find different videos of people talking about the benefits of plants and I'm just like this guy didn't even take the time to like consider the content like listen to you you're a neurosurgeon who's been in basically like college since you were age 15 you won even take the time to watch the video and it's like That's How Far We've drifted away from what you're explaining which is our natural birth right which is eating a species appropriate diet yeah well and that's the thing too you know oh I can find somebody that says something else great watch them to then watch me or watch someone else and and then compare the arguments and see how they stack up right because you know people people would say well there's all these plants and they're so great and there's this vitamin and mineral and isn't that wonderful and I I agree there are those vitamins and minerals that's lovely but there's also these poisons right so that's not so lovely so you get the bad with the good and you can't just you can't just cherry pick one and say oh this is the only one I want to focus on no you have to you have to look at the whole thing and then you look at well more plants are better people that eat more fruits and vegetables or better okay which fruits and vegetables right I mean even even vegans I mean that's the thing there there's there's all these different Hills that the vegans try to die on they try no no no no well this is it and you know they try to fight and they you know for a while there when I first sort of started talking about this stuff there was there was this this rank denial that plants had any sort of defense mechanisms and then it was just like then one of them happened to just open a botney book and go [ __ ] okay all right okay um yeah well so we're dead ass wrong about that but you know they start to make other excuses um and then like well okay yeah they're poisons but you know let's just pretend that they're you know um beneficial somehow you know and um uh and you know that's obviously garbage and now they're going to you know the whole evolutionary argument where it's just like well yeah well yes yes we evolved eating meat and no we're not herbivores but that doesn't mean that it's actually good for us like no no that's that's exactly what that means that's exactly what that me you know that's that's that's a law that's an immutable law of biology is that is that of adaptation and and there's so many other pieces of information as well to back that up but you know the you know the fact remains that these uh defense chemicals exist you know and and you can look them up they're they're readily available for people anyone to see um and you know and and you know now people saying okay well yes there are these defense chemicals but the ones that I want you to eat and all these because plants have these defense chemicals okay which ones are safy how much of each one and which ones do you need to need to get nutrition you can't get full nutrition you cannot get full nutrition from a vegan diet cannot right so first of all that's that's an inappropriate diet that's a bad diet if you can't even get basic nutrients from it How can any nutritionist argue for a diet that is lacking in nutrients that that makes no sense they should lose their license at that point I mean makes no D well lose their nutritionist card anyway if you're if you're arguing for a diet that is deficient in nutrients you should not be allowed to give nutritional advice that's insane but you know now they're saying well you should eat plants more plants equals better okay but which plants right you can't just say more plants more any plant more Hemlock more night shade more tobacco more heroin you know which bloody plants right and then you talk to these same people and this is part of you know the the uh debate that I had with a vegan guy which was you know um uh yeah sort of a couple weeks ago it hasn't come out yet but uh you know it's a bit frustrating because this guy just bounces around from topics and he tries to nitpick you know little things on the things you talk about but then leaves glaring holes on his arguments right so he'll he'll talk he'll try to nitpick on the just the littlest things here uh which aren't necessarily valid anyway but then he'll say well look at this Inuit thing and they have heart disease and it's like okay is that with Inuit that are only eating a meat-based diet like oh well yeah it's like where does it say that doesn't say that anywhere in in the damn paper so why are you bringing it up that that's not relevant and um you know other sorts of things of that nature what was another one that they did yeah he said something about um we look at these animals in the zoo and they get these diseases and they get cancer and most cancer actually goes in animals that are that are eating meat it's like okay are those ones only eating their natural diet or are they being fed other things well I mean presumably yeah they probably are where does it say that where does it say only eating their natural diet like it doesn't so like again this this study is useless I don't care what happens to zoo animals that are fed crap you know I'm I'm worried about what happens when they when they eat their normal diet and proper conditions and also even if they they are getting you know some small prevalence of illness on their natural diet well feed him kibble and see what happens it's going to get way worse right so you know it's it's a bit silly but um you know one of the things that they he was talking about he was trying to nitpick this this study with the Messiah which it was a book really it was like 120 pages long with the Messiah makik cuyu back in the 1930s because the thing is all these studies they compare against the norm the norm is sick Norm is people eating a standard processed food diet which is processed carbs and sugar and plants right it's plant food it's processed plant food not processed meat it's processed plant food the majority of calories that Americans get and westerners get are plant-based so we are already plant-based well we need to plant-based we are plant-based we are we are plant-based that's the problem and so they go you know so so these these things say oh more fruits and vegetables okay well more fruits and vegetables means you're you're replacing the processed grains and carbs and sugars and Seed oils and you're eating more Whole Food okay and you get a benefit I'm shock shocked also you get health user bias and you improve in a lot of other ways as well and there's a study with 400,000 people in the UK that showed that vegetable eating uh vegetables and fruits and vegetables didn't actually benefit from a cardiovascular um disease rate now you know when accounting for um healthy user bias and all the different sorts of confounders and they found okay well maybe there's a there's an improvement in um all cause mortality but again how much of this is based on confounders and healthy user bias and people just doing things that are more healthy for them and so you know if you want to actually look at what's better excluding meat or excluding plants or whatever whole food meat-based diet with a whole food plant-based diet that's what you need to look at we don't have studies looking at that except for this one with the akuu and the MSI because the Messi largely eat meat milk and blood and akuu largely eat plants they're largely vegetarian they have some milk but I mean barely any out of a population of of 750,000 people back in the late 1920s they estimated that they only would produce about 100 gallons of milk right so it just nothing right and uh so they have a bit of meat every now and then and some things but they they found that the yakyuu were much less healthy had horrible development were much shorter on average 5 inches shorter than the than the males of the messai tribe uh had worse teeth worse dentition worse Health uh diabetes and um bone deformities and so many other health issues they were 50% weaker than the than the M Aki cuyu and um and you know list goes on and on and on and on and on and then the females were also less healthy and you know one guy who tried to critique that on Tik Tok he said that that um actually the females of the akuu tribe were the healthiest out of all the groups that's complete and utter garbage they were healthier than the male akuu because they ate a different diet the males ate more grains and Millet and all that sort of stuff and the and the uh the females ate more uh more leafy greens and things as well so they had a more diverse plant-based ey and they were more healthy as a result of that and but they were more healthy than than the male of their own tribe they were were not healthier than the females and the healthiest of all were the male warrior cast in in the Messiah who ate the most meat of all of them yeah right and so so that was completely wrong and and the interesting part about that study is that the Messiah and the akuu live in the same area so they enter marry right and so they're genetically similar now the author said like well we don't know how long they've been here we don't know how long they've been in Maring we don't know how far back that goes fair enough you know but they have been in that area for quite some time and they're both living in the same area and the thing is is that when you have you know people coming over from the akuu into the Messi tribe Messi over akuu you know there is enough going back and forth that that should start leveling the playing field but you have these genetics going there and getting poor nutrition and then that's stunting their growth or increasing their growth now he was trying to say that well that that doesn't count as a plant-based diet well that's not that that's not the plant-based diet I would I would argue for it's like well no look the studies that you're touting that say that plant-based diet and more fruits and vegetables are good and Less meat is good and more plants are good are are very vague they're not saying your diet that you picked that's perfect vegan diet with all these supplements that you want that's not what these studies say these studies are saying whatever plants you want to eat as long as you eat more plants and Less meat that's what benefits people well here we go we have these population studies with hundreds of thousands of people and looking at at their overall health and development and they found that wow actually Less meat and more plants is really detrimental to People's Health and development and so but I just thought more plants and meat was a problem I thought that more meat was going to make you more sick and it didn't it does the exact opposite and so there's always these little you know little ways of trying to change you know move the goalposts and change change what we're actually arguing about um but that's that's always how it is you're going to get these people out there and so you know my advice to your your client is just like just don't worry about it like who a [ __ ] you know that guy doesn't want want to actually improve his health he doesn't have to F fine right fine yeah exactly you know you do what you you do your thing and just let him do his thing and that's fine if he doesn't want to look at the evidence then he deserves to stay in ignorance yeah yeah that's exactly what I told him I'm like look don't you think it's funny that the guy didn't even take the time to like open up the video and watch like five minutes of it like obviously he already had a response for you without even looking at anything I recently heard Dr Joel KH excuse anyway yeah it's an excuse exactly right I recently heard Dr Joe Khan on a pro kind of meat podcast and he's a vegan doctor and he was making all of his points and he's almost like pointing out all the contradictions in the studies that he's citing like he's citing the ornish studies and he's like yeah well they changed their breathing and meditation and they stopped smoking and they did yoga and and again like breath work and meditation they also did more plants and they live for longer that based on you know the study that they did with a very limited amount of people he's telling you that as he's supporting that study and is like okay are you Pro plant-based or you pro pro yoga like you can't tell the difference just quitting smoking is a huge deal like they they the evidence that they site is so weak and is so poor and they know it and they cite it and tell you that which brings me to a debate that you did specifically we did an episode with Aranda wickr singha um who lives in the UK who attended the conference that you were at where we actually I I will say ubiquitously across the board in the carnival world this is the debate that we wanted to see I heard it was really kind nobody fought it was you know Rotten Tomatoes other um it was a really cool debate and you were a part of it I know you had to attend uh virtually you could make it there in person kind of a last minute thing but I would love to hear your experience what was that like and what were the arguments for a plant-based diet and were they convincing it all oh no I I thought it was very good I mean I think that's exactly you're exactly right I mean we should be able to speak you know cordially to each other um that's not that's not what a lot of uh these end up being which is why there's sort of no point in having them um because it's just a waste of time you know um it's just just people are being just rude and childish and it's just like well why why are we even doing this like I don't I have no interest in talking to someone if they're being uh childish about these things and so this was nice these these people had you know mixed mixed opinions and it was myself and Sean Baker leading up you know team team meet and and other people that were sort of in in the spectrum of uh eating more plants to full on vegan vegetarian um but everyone everyone was very good we were able to to to go back and forth you know give our give our Spiel make our case and then sort of discuss the finer points of different things was a Dr chitty who um made up the the main sort of vegan side of things there's another gentleman who was I forget his name but he was a a really interesting guy actually I thought he had a lot of good points but he wasn't like 100% vegan he was just he was just saying there's probably benefits to eating plants he's like hey there's there's good things here let's not let's not just throw them throw the baby out with the bath water and I I you know I a lot of time for for that sort of discussion you know that's that's to that's totally fair um uh chitty uh you know made some some good points as well I mean he works in this in sort of a metabolic Health practice and helps people and is getting people you know improving their health in a number of ways but I didn't I didn't find his his arguments too compelling one of his main pieces of evidence was talking about The China Study which I don't think is very uh compelling and and has a lot of in it and there are other people that have you know read the whole series of studies and China studies and things like that um and actually sort of broken down the data and looked at it and actually found that they're they're actually hiding things and and uh and omitting major major factors that uh really changed the story and so you know people can look that up it sort of too long to get into but um and I wouldn't I wouldn't do it justice but you know that was that was you know it's like it's like when someone comes and says well I mean the blue zones so therefore plant-based you know it was sort of that sort of thing and it's just like well they major problems with the blue zones um you know I just just did a podcast with Bill Schindler and he was in the blue zones and he was studying these people and and how they ate and how they lived and they were nothing close to plant-based they were nearly entire well they were definitely meat-based whole animal based and they ate he said that they were eating more meat than he did at home and and he's always been big into meat and um and then after you know after a week there they said hey we're going to have meat tomorrow and he was just like what what do you mean we're gonna have meat tomorrow we''ve been eating more meat than i' I I eat at home like what are you talking about what they mean by that is they mean they're going to put a whole animal on a spit and and spend the whole day barbecuing and hanging out as as a as a community wow right so that's what they mean so when they when the blue zones say well in Sardinia they only eat meat once a week they know damn well that they're being misleading that's a that's a difference in language it's semantics they say we only eat meat once a week well they're saying you only eat meat once a week yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah we only eat meat once a week that's what they call that right so it's it's a it's a confusion in the language and it's it's a purposeful um it's purposefully done by the people doing the blue zones because they they know damn well that that's not the case that that's not what they mean by that that they predominantly eat meat and and once a week they eat a lot of meat right and so and these people are extremely healthy and there are a lot of other factors in that a lot of other factors you know have a strong tight-knit Community people keep working they have a goal they have a purpose in life to keep them going they're walking up and down a bunch of Hills going to their pastures going to their herds going to their animals to tend them every single day and playing with their grandkids and their great grandkids and telling stories and you know doing doing different activities and staying active and being busy and and enjoying their life a lot of beneficial things but being plant-based is not one of them right so that was that was a major argument was was uh The China Study uh sort of thing and going to Lolinda and seeing these people that were 100 and you know very healthy and it's just like well that's great you know but um you know there's a lot of a lot of issues with the lalinda um crowd as well and the Adventist studies are are pretty biased very bias as well so um so you know it's it's it wasn't anything that I saw any new arguments that I was just like oh okay well that that's that's interesting I'll have to look into that and you know maybe that sort of shakes things around it wasn't it was the sort of things I'd seen before and I was like no you know we have we have answers for these yeah yeah no I I heard from Aranda and I would have expected this to begin with that on the carnivore side the arguments were very careful and logical and had proof and backing behind them and the arguments for plant-based was more emotional and this really helped my daughter heal this one thing and that's great and and I'm so grateful for this and that that's fine but it's it's different than it's ironic too because just this week we got a comment on a video that you and I did together where the person making the comment said well isn't it funny that every study says that eating more plants makes you live longer and I'm like I responded I said that's that's cool like send me your favorite one I'm actually talking to Dr Anthony chaffy this week so I'll just bring it up with him like just send me whatever your favorite one is if all studies say it it should be very easy to just come up with you know the best one you like and crickets like I didn't get any I don't have any to discuss with you today because there was absolutely nothing and I told him the same thing like if you're if you're basing your you know knowledge of longevity on this new Netflix documentary called Liv to 100 that's all about the blue zones and Dan Butner and all this stuff that's already owned by the the Seventh Day Adventist if you're basing your knowledge on that there's a lot of gaps and we're doing a very specific episode on that coming up soon because it's it's trending on Netflix it's a top 10 Show on Netflix that's highlighting the benefits of the blue zones and it's absolutely ridiculous yeah well that's the thing right because because Dan Butner pushed a plant-based agenda and and so you know and I I was actually on that on the comment comment thread on the bill Schindler uh Blue Zone thing that I just put out um there was a lady from okanawa Who just said hey this is blue zones are crap I I live in okanawa I grew up in Oka my grandparents are 100 and and they're very healthy they mostly eat e meat they eat like 80% meat 90% meat and a lot of beef a lot of pork and chicken and fish and yes they eat they eat plants but they they don't they don't eat much it's the majority of what they eat is meat and the majority of what I eat is meat and what my family eats are meat and what all the traditionally uh long living and then the traditional diet of the oak Allens is a lot of meat it's very meat heavy so this is not true and I I know this I grew up with this and um you know a lot of people were very interested and asking different questions and you know you had the sort of the you know the the obligatory vegan trolls that that tried to ignore everything she said and just say oh yeah but that's not carnivore that's not 100% carnivore so I mean what the hell is this all about like no one saying it is no one's saying it has to be the point is that it's not plant-based and so saying that the blue zones are so great because plant-based that that's that's not true and so you know it's just it's just showing the actual facts of the matter and also showing that no like eating more meat doesn't make you die young right that that these people are predominantly eating meat and if we're very convinced by their longevity and we're impressed by that well and and we're going to look at their diet um you know as something that we should model well it's it's meat-based it's mostly meat and you know the definition of a hyper carnivore someone gets over 70% of their calories from meat so they're hyper carnivore right and so that's actually you know uh pretty telling but you know they wanted to ignore all that sort of stuff but that's the thing is that um the the blue zones were completely Mis misleading and um you know one thing that they did the Blue Zone that they they didn't mention a Hong Kong that has the highest life expectancy on Earth Eats most more meat per capita than any other you know modern population that's and and the um you know the the Adventists now they say well they have a lot of centenarians as well and they're all plant-based I know a lot of 7-Day advantis and they say no that's not true that's certainly what is pitched and what you you're supposed to eat is a lot of plant-based but he said it probably about 5% of people actually adhere to that everyone else just eats normally you know what they do uh also um you know encourage and and impress upon their members is live a clean life don't drink don't smoke don't do drugs don't have caffeine don't have nicotine um you know um have you know you know get married have kids don't have you know this sort of thrill seeking life and um you know so that's that's again a healthy user bias as a as a population and another population that they fail to recognize as a blue zone are the American Mormons who sort of adhere to similar um restrictions as far as lifestyle is concern but don't have the nutritional restrictions that not even a lot of 7day Adventists even adhere to and they have the exact same life expectancy as the Adventists it's exactly the same as well last time I checked it was but it's you know if it's not the same it's very close and so you know they they omit these sorts of things and then what Dan Butner did was he actually sold the rights to calling things blue zones to the 7even Adventist for that's right dollar and uh now you have areas applying to be a Blue Zone saying hey look we have all these cenarius we have all these people that are living a long time we want to be a Blue Zone and uh and they have to apply to the Seventh Day Adventist Church and pay them a bunch of money and then they decide no we don't like the look of that you're not you don't get the stamp right so this is this is a political thing now you know this is like you get stamped as a Blue Zone it's only the people that that they want they can maybe I I don't know but you know they could easily manipulate that like no no no like this is a cattle cattle country just we all just eat like you know a bunch of meat and steaks and everyone's living to be 110 like absolutely not no you know we're not giving you a Blue Zone um but uh you know maybe they they'll be honest about it but I have uh you know no you know no impression that they will uh based on on previous behavior that they've done yeah Fort Worth Texas is one of those cities I think they pay million to the Blue Zone project to be accredited Fort Worth Texas is not a blue zone I'm sorry just not it's not and I heard yeah that that that the amount of money that the sth Day Adventist Church bought the blue zones for was like 7 plus million dollar it's crazy I live here in the Salt Lake Valley I was Mormon for a lot of My Life um and I have lived in the Salt Lake Valley for 38 of my 39 years and I can tell you they don't shun me like I'm I'm with these people I've grown up with these people that's how he grew up and interestingly I was actually thinking about this a few weeks ago I wanted to know how much of this plant-based message that seems to be so publicized how much of it is actually pushed in the sth Day Adventist Church I was just like curious but I don't know any Adventists they're a pretty small population so I found the hotline that you could call the 7th Day Adventist Church to get in touch with some of their people that that know like the doctrine and I just wanted to know like how much is this push I I literally was on the phone for probably 30 minutes making it was about 12 to 15 different calls that would always end up in either somebody's voicemail or I would hear yeah let me transfer you click hang up oh yeah let me transer you click hang up it was the most bizarre thing I finally found some woman receptionist in Reno that I was able to talk to she was super friendly and I was just like hey i' like just have some like experiential questions to ask you like do people talk about this and she was like like maybe one Pastor if he's really into it might mention something but it's not really something I do I tried to go plant-based ones and it really sucked and I didn't like it didn't work for me so I don't do it anymore and it it's not like a big part of their like actual message that they're teaching their people you're right like the people in the Seventh Day Adventist Church don't necessarily follow that yet that's what's put on these Netflix documentaries and the blue zones as the major thing it's so ridiculous yeah and yeah that that that was my impression from people I know on the Seventh Day Adventist Church who told me that almost no one does that it's like 5% of people are sort of Hardcore stick to the scriptures of um of LG white who was their prophetess who said that she had a vision from God saying that meat was evil causes lustful feelings and lust is a sin therefore meat is a sin and you have to avoid it um but you know that that that's not what most people adhere to and uh but he said that you know it is it is promoted they say like yeah yeah you know from the church you know that you should do this and all that sort of stuff but um but that not everyone actually does that you know it is funny too because there are a lot of well the 7day ADV church have had huge influence uh in in nutrition people should look up Belinda fety ft ke and look up her work with SE on the Seventh Day Adventist Church because it is absolutely mind-blowing and staggering the influence that they've had over the past 130 40 years uh you know they they they founded Kellogg cereal they founded Arian Foods they founded the American nutritional and dietetics Association they started you know the the the university programs for um nutritional Sciences in America they wrote one of the first textbooks in nutritional Sciences at the University level in America in 19 25 it's still in print and it's most it's current edition right from the beginning 1925 plant-based plant-based plant-based plant-base plant-base you have to eat all these plants and and they've had they've had people in because they were they were there at the beginning they helped found these institutions and so they've had they have very highly placed uh members you know those 22 23 million members and most of these people just just normal great people but the the the doctrine from the top down is is what it is and and has been for a very long time and so they've had these very highly placed people you know the McGovern report that was that was heavily influenced and even possibly written by a Seventh Day Adventist and say oh bad cholesterol bad oh goodness goodness gracious me and um Dr pritkin of the prian diet this was this was the heart attack diet you want to get on this this U heart heart disease prevention diet was the prian diet I mean this was this was this was a a household name at my house when I grew up I knew who Dr prian was before I knew who the name of my own doctor was wow I was just Dr PR oh no pran diet no we don't eat this we don't eat fatty meat we don't eat this okay all right I guess and that just that was just drilled into my head from from infancy and and Dr Brin was just like just no fat no fat at all but he also said no sugar and no this and no that no fat was no fat and so that included like you seed oils and things like that so got rid of the seed oils got rid of the of the sugars and you know Whole Food sort of approach to things uh but he was considered the father of the plant-based diet because the meat that he was telling you to eat it's like okay yeah you can have meat but you know ground beef boil the living hell out of it get all the fat out of it then press it and Smash It and press it and boil it again drain out the fat press it again boil it press it boil it press it boil it press it me what the hell is left oh my God left there's no flavor left um you know I mean fat is long gone obviously but everything else has gone too it just tastes like garbage and so you know you're just you're just you know you're saying oh yeah you can eat meat you can eat that meat and we like yeah no thanks I'll I'll do it out you know um and uh you know and that was the thing he was a professor at Loma Linda Medical Center Medical School uh which is the 7day Adventist Medical School I was looking at different medical schools while I was living in California and I looked at Lolinda which is in California and uh and it said specifically you must be a member of the Seventh Day Adventist Church in good standing to even apply oh wow you won't even consider you unless you are in the church you have to have a letter from your Deacon saying what a guy and so I was just like okay don't know what that's about but move on you know I was like it was like well maybe I can sort of you know fudge my way in and I'm interested in the church and try to get a letter or something like that I'm like who cares I haven't even heard of this school wasting my my time on it and uh but that that's you know so I don't know if you have to be a 7thday Adventist member to teach there but obviously you you you need to you know at least be INF infuenced by them and and pryin had read had said that he was heavily influenced by LG white and read all of her books had dozens of books and um and then Dr gundry Who I believe taught at Lind as well I don't know if he's a Seventh Day Adventist either but you know he says okay you know don't eat meat and all these things but he wrote the plant Paradox and that's to me it's just botney that's that's what that's what I would have named that botany right and um but he called the plant Paradox this is a paradox you know we we need to eat meat this is the Heavenly food from God it's like Mana from heaven and you know and obviously we can't eat meat Meats evil Meats shun Meats Aon no and so we should just eat eat plants but there's this Paradox because they don't want you to eat them and they can kill you and you can get really sick and so maybe do it like this or take this pill or this supplement or whatever but you should still be plant-based which is like not the conclusion I would have come to after writing that book right you know but again there's this influence from the Seventh Day Adventist Church they got into his head too he's a smart guy he's a cardiothoracic surgeon I believe and wrote this book a very very accurate and and insightful book talking about how plants do not want you to eat them and they are toxic and you should bloody well avoid them and then still because he was sort of in that world saying no no no but you have to eat plants this is paradox you know like it's not a paradox at all plants are toxic we're not designed to eat them we're not adapted to eating them because we've only been introduced to them very recently and the food and the plants that we're eating now even more recently because those didn't even exist 10,000 years ago during the Agricultural Revolution these things are brand new right so how can we be adapted or designed or benefited optimally by food that did not exist a couple hundred years ago some of these things didn't even exist 50 years ago or last year right how is that the best thing for us to eat if it didn't even exist last year that makes no sense law biology is adaptation we have not had time to adapt to this crap and it's making us sick yeah yeah that's such a good point I love that all right well you have an amazing podcast I don't know first of all how you have the time to host a podcast secondly I don't know how you find your guests you find the coolest guests that that I've ever heard some of them are not like household names like the dude in Florida who's eating invasive species of iguanas iguana yeah and he's like yeah just like this this is food and people don't want this and I'll just Grill up these iguanas and eat them and he's he's great he's like natural carnivore and like thriving um you know we talked to Dazzle who you've hosted on your show also in Canada he called you the carnivore Samurai which I thought was hilarious awesome he's great he completely flipped his health you know back to good after being you know plant-based vegan for for as long as he was a long long time as healthy as ever now being carnivore and you had one guest in particular that absolutely blew me away so I'm I'm listening to you interview some rancher in the middle of nowhere Canada her name's Maggie she says she was born in 1941 which makes her 82 years old and she's explaining things and I always listen to podcasts I listen to them quick I usually you know two times the speed but even for what I was listening to fast she was speaking quick like like as fast as I essentially and I'm like wait a second like there's no way just based on this person's voice that she is 82 years old so I had to stop the podcast to pull it up on YouTube so I could watch her and again not only is she explaining her experience is basically her entire life as a carnivore she's explaining science like she's telling you exactly why plants don't want to get eaten this is the best food this is what we do with our kids our oldest is now 56 like what an amazing episode that you did with her that has really gone viral her picture is all over the Internet you look at this woman she looks like she's in her 40s she's 82 years old you had the opportunity after the Symposium in San Diego to go spend some time with her and I'm really curious to hear what that experience was like well it was amazing and she's amazing too and and she is 82 she was born in 1941 and and a lot of I mean I I believe her because I spoke to her and I mean just just talking to her I I was very clear um you know that she was authentic but you know some of the people in the comments were like there's not there's no way it's not there's not a chance this is [ __ ] I mean I like the carnivore diet but like this is just this is just you know giving us a bad name and making us look bad because this is an obvious lie and so and so she was like just really just confused by that because that wasn't even the point of her talking like hey look at me I'm I'm doing so great she was talking about how yes meat eating meat is great and that's important for people to know about but ranchers are being driven out of business and onethird of the ranchers in Canada uh lost their herds last year and were driven out and and it's and it's just getting worse and there's all these conditions and so we get the meat-based movement going and then who the hell's going to make the meat right and so you know we we need to address these sorts of things before it's a critical issue and so that's what she was talking about she wasn't she wasn't really talking about her amazing health of which she has um so she she ended up sending me pictures of her birth certificate commercial driver's license and passport and I can tell you she's born in 1941 and I met her daughter uh one of her daughters I met um two her grandkids and I saw pictures of her great grandkids right of which she has eight you know and so you know this is this is all completely legit and you know she's she's not only 82 she not only looks half her age but she is extraordinarily healthy she is um she moves like a like a fit 30-year old she was literally hopping over 5 foot tall fences to go and caral a Raging Bull and I mean a Raging Bull and this this guy was a monster his name was Growler it's a big massive Bull and he got out of his little enclosure and worked as way over you know they had different herds separated with different bulls and he wanted he wanted to be with these other cows and so he was staring staring off with the other bull uh through the fence and and she was like oh God if she if they get to each other growler's going to kill him Growers is just going to kill me because he was twice the size of this other bull wow and um and so she just she literally hopped over just just popped over just quick as hell and just like growl come on just grabbing him you know pulling him growling him I was like oh my God I was like I'm not getting in there and um and she was just it was just like nothing it was like nothing to her climbing up and down you know big tractors and combines and you know they have a little sailboat that they're um that they sort of take around the lake and they're building a bigger sailboat so they can you know sail down to um Columbia where they they bought a ranch down there and um and she was climbing up the Mast and grabbing things grabbing the ropes and all these sorts of things just like it was nothing 82 years old and and um not just like hobbling and like careful and like oh she's good for 82 she's not dead yet you know she hasn't turned to dust she's not in a wheel chair no she's walking around working 14 16 hour days she's up at 5:00 A.M out with a cows bang and then she's working until after dusk every day and some days you know during capping season or you know if they're bailing hay you know and people grew up on farms it's just if you start bailing hay you keep bailing until the hate is done right and so uh couple years ago she went for 36 hours straight herself without a break without sleep without food 36 hours at 80 years old probably at the time you know so this is this is someone who's in incredibly good shape and Incredibly good health she is on she has no medical conditions she is on no medication she takes no supplement and she only goes to the doctor to get her um required uh physical and checkup to maintain her commercial driver's license and she um does she still has her commercial driver's license so she's incredibly healthy she's also an incredible person she's extraordinarily interesting she's had an amazing life met some amazing people I mean even her family is is pretty incredible her father's first cousin is uh was Sir Edmond Hillary who first climbed Mount Everest wow right so that was that was her you know yeah that that was her family so her first cousin once removed pretty incredible pretty cool stuff and a lot of other really amazing things uh as well that she told me which which are pretty crazy probably um not uh enough time to go into it here but very interesting stuff so yeah know so that was amazing we got to see her and got to hang out on the ranch and I mean she was just like put you know l and I a shame you know so I went with L and and we were up there and we absolutely loved it we stayed in one of their little guest cabins it's it's beautiful like their house is so nice she literally built this cabin or this Log House herself you know because they've been poor for so long it's I mean you ranchers I mean she was losing money on a ranch every year you know and and um that's just how just driving people out of business they have expensive lands very valuable there's a lot of taxes on it and and they make it very difficult to earn any money raising cattle and um so they've been losing money for years and really struggling for a long time and uh you know most of her life she's hasn't been able to afford to eat the beef that she produces right and so they hunt you know they take down moose and elk and all these sorts of things and you know get eggs and and um you know and that and that's how she fed her kids and fed herself for you know for decades right amazing and um yeah so so you we got to see that and you know Ella and I were probably like rolling out of bed at like 9:00 and getting ready they get up there we'd meet them for sort of like a a late breakfast at 10 o'clock we're like yeah me here at 10 o'clock and they they've they' already been working for five hours you they' already been out cows doing things for five hours and and then we'd go out and we'd help them and we'd you know help put in you know dig fence posts and put up fences and move the cattle around and and and um El got to Brand a calf or a few calves wow fun with and uh yeah it was great we just we just had a lot of fun hanging out with him and seeing you know what's going on and it was just she's an amazing person her husband Mac is an amazing guy there's just lovely people like literally just the nicest human beings that you could ever meet and um and you know and and you know as the as the law of of the universe entails um because they're just the nicest human beings on Earth everybody has tried to take advantage them of them at one point or another and yet they are still just the nicest most wonderful people which just goes to show you what Marcus aurelus said in in meditations which is you can have an a good a wonderful life right now it's just all about mindset how you look at your life will determine whether or not you enjoy your life and paraphrasing but uh that that's that's them to a tea you know they've had they've had had a difficult time a very difficult time and and as she says you know she's like I I know what it's like to be hungry I know what it's like to have to resort to eating roadkill and uh but you know you just you sold your on and so you know even then with with all this hardship and all these these people that have taken advantage of of them they're still there just the most positive nice wonderful people and you can't shake them you know they are going to enjoy their life they're going to enjoy the world or going to enjoy uh what what this world has to offer them regardless of what people do to them they're not getting jaded and and cynical they're just yeah whatever you know that's amazing thing so yeah it was really nice that's amazing I think it's so cool that you took time out of a a limited trip that you had to spend some time with them you could have stayed at some Resort in a big city or whatever and you chose to go up to the middle of nowhere Canada um I've been able to message her she is incredibly grateful for you and was incredibly grateful to meet you and be part of your platform and get her message out again about the ranchers and and the struggles they're having and she has had a challenging year as far as acquiring hay I understand and so you were a big part of helping her with that she mentioned to me how difficult it is for her and Matt to accept help but you put something out on social media where you you allowed people to contribute if they liked and I think she's made such a big impact in this in this space in the carnivore space that so many people willing to donate their money I was able to send her a bit of money it wasn't a ton but hopefully it helped but but how how can people help her in this cause is it is it basically just finding the social media post that you made so that people can contribute well they they can certainly do that and yeah so I started a a give send go campaign um and um apparently that's better than GoFundMe for for various reasons but it's exactly the same concept right I guess like you know the GoFundMe thing when there was like the Canadian truckers that had their their strike and their protest um and people were and they they froze their bank accounts froze their funds they tried to starve these people out and people tried to did a GoFundMe campaign to try to support them and the Canadian government was able to get gofund me people to freeze the assets and not oh wow give it to them yeah so wow um when I when I started saying hey I'm going to do a GoFundMe a lot of people were like don't you don't do that you know um you know do do this other one give send go because they don't they don't play Politics the way um GoFundMe does so that's why I went with that uh but it's exactly the same idea and it's just giv send go.com pleasehelp Maggie and that's the that's the campaign and people can find that on my my Instagram as well or on my Facebook and I have it in um links in my more recent lives and and um and I I have I I did a video basically saying you know that that there was a lot of garbage going on with with like land and property rights in Canada where basically people don't own their land the government owns everything underneath the surface of the of the ground and uh and they sell them off to oil companies and you know Miners and things like that and so um she's had a a high she's had there's a lot of natural gas in Alberta and she has a has a big well on her land and uh it's been producing a lot of of natural gas so it's a highly producing gas um natural gas um Reservoir there for 40 50 years she doesn't get any of that you that's sold off auctioned off uh by the government and then sold between gas companies here and there and everywhere and um you know they have to pay her you know some like you land usage price like $3,500 a year to trample over her crops and and you know trash her uh land and leave Gates unlocked and have $40,000 worth of cattle stolen because they damn Gates unlocked and um and all these other sorts of problems and then treat her really badly saying we own this land we ow blah blah blah and they're like she like absolutely not the hell you don't you know and um you know and and $3,500 a year so that's what was grandfathered in back in the 70s wow that's how much you get is $3,500 a year and and at the time that was a decent amount yeah yeah and it's not now and so it didn't it didn't rise for inflation or the cost of the land or the cost of um you know the crops that you could produce where that land is being taken up and the road to the well is being taken up and all these sorts of things and at one point they just drove through they had a they had a crop growing and they just they just drove straight through they didn't even just go around I mean it takes two minutes right to go around on the easement path they just cut straight through and killed all the crops in the way right I mean just absolute pieces of garbage and so I just I made a made a video just saying this is total [ __ ] you know and it's just and that's what it says on the on the thumbnail like this is [ __ ] and um and so be on that as well but you know and I have it um yeah social media as well but yeah that's it just giv send go.com pleas help Maggie and and people have been amazing we've raised uh just over 30,000 Canadian dollars which is fantastic amazing you need 50 that's what that's what we're trying to go for and if we get a little more that's that's even better because they can certainly use it um for the ranch but the you mentioned the hay the the there was a drought this year and there's a drought a couple years ago and so hay prices in Alberta have tripled and it's very difficult because of how expensive it is to ship things and gas prices and all these sorts of things it's very difficult to get hay from other provinces or in America and all that sort of stuff and so their their their hands are tied and so not only is there less hay available it's triple the price and so that's very difficult and so they're already losing money and so they're using their pensions to basically keep the ranch afloat for operation costs and getting hit with another $50,000 bill for for hay like just wasn't couldn't happen it wasn't in the budget they they would have to sell off more land she's had to sell off more and more land and more and more land to get more and more penned in because they just they're just losing money losing money losing money and having to sell off having to sell off having to sell off having to sell off you know so it's really sad and so I was just like I just can't see that H I just don't want to see that happen she's such a nice person she's had so many people um take advantage of her and she's just done nothing but but give kindnesses to to so many people wow and I just I just didn't I just couldn't see that I didn't want to see that happening and and the other the other um horrible uh possibility was that they' have to sell out half their herd because they couldn't they couldn't afford to feed them through the winter and so they'd have to sve half their herd to afford enough hay to feed the rest of the herd you know and so now you're now you have half the herd and now you're trying to then maybe you have to try and buy things back but you don't have the money then either and so you have to start to try to regrow your herd that takes years years and years and years and you and you know the the the cows that you're keeping you're not selling so you're not making money on them right there there's the delay there's years and years and years until you have a heer that's producing cows that you can sell and you can sell you know one calf a year or something like that you know you can't can't you can't just keep a bunch of cows and and expect to survive you have to sell some you know it's it's you're else you go down because they're operational costs so you know I didn't I didn't want to see that and I wanted to help out and so uh I started this and people have been just amazing um and she's she was literally crying when when she saw people you know the outpouring of people helping but uh you we're still going we're we're over halfway there but we still have a ways to go and so you know if people listening to this you know want to watch that episode with Maggie it's just um I think it's just called on my channel is just um You probably look up Maggie on my channel but you can also look up uh Rancher and carnivore for 65 years or over 65 years that's the title and and that will come up and it's one of my my more popular videos and uh and just see what you think and you know if that's someone you want you want to help out you know a dollar $5 what whatever y you know it helps it all adds up and and people have been you know giving more money but they've also been giving smaller amounts just whatever people are able to do really helps you know because you get enough people giving you know a buck or two like you'll get there you'll get there yeah so yeah so hopefully hopefully we can get there but even now uh with with you know 30,000 or so that's going to that's going to save a significant amount of Her Herd which is great yeah sounds like it well that's amazing well tag uh the link in the notes will tag that episode in the notes as well I think people will be shocked to listen to that episode and see how smart she is I mean 82 she's learning how to sale she's learning Spanish 82 is so cool um and yeah just again the communication I've had with her has been absolutely amazing she's very very grateful for you as much as I would love to keep you on the line I realize you are in Perth and for us to communicate uh you have to be up very very late it must be very close to your bedtime so I better let you go here but um if if you don't mind we mentioned the book club which is absolutely fantastic I love being part of the book club I have a client during that time and so I can't even usually attend but it's been really fun to like try to tune in when I can and also read along with the books and the commentary from the people that are in there including Olivia is just absolutely wonderful so everybody should join that we'll link that as well but where can people go to find you to connect with you in your work yeah well well thank you very much it's been great talking to you as always um well my my social media is just Anthony chaffy MD on Instagram and my YouTube channel is is the same Anthony chaffy MD I have a podcast called the plant-free MD and Twitter is Anthony chaffy um I do have a patreon where we have we run a book club and you know every month we read you know a different book in the sort of the the the health and nutrition space and um and that's been going really well we we often get the authors to come in for the final book club and and answer questions directly to people people and and sort of have people sort of talk to them about it and and bounce things off which is which is really great it's been cool yeah I think it's I think that's sort of the nicest thing about having a podcast is is that um you have a platform that you can you can actually say hey i' I'd like to talk to you that I'm super interested in and I loved your book and you know I wanted to to talk to like can we do a podcast or would you come into my book club and people say yes which is crazy so it's it's it's sort of nice you get access to people that that you wouldn't you wouldn't otherwise and so you know it's it's great to be able to pass that on to you know uh the patreon members and and let them get access to these people as well which is really nice and so um yeah so I try to make make well we do the book club we do a lot of other things and early release videos and and weekly Q&A sessions with just patreon members and and uh so yeah and if people are interested in that that's just a patreon and again Anthony chmd it's a few bucks like the value that you get for a few dollars a month is absolutely wonderful so again we'll tag that in notes Dr chaffy always a pleasure to talk to you thank you so much for appearing on our show today we really appreciate you maybe some people you know can be uh less damaged have more defenses towards some of these plant poisons plant toxins but that does not mean it's it's optimal for them that doesn't mean that it's the best thing that they can have so there is an optimal diet okay it is something all right so I think all the best evidence shows that that that's a carnivore diet and so regardless of your age regardless of your issue and your disease that is the best thing for you to eat and it will change your life dramatically