Stay Jacked at 58 with 20+ Year Carnivore Michael Mason!

[Music] welcome to the plant-free MD podcast with Dr Anthony chaffy where we discuss diet and nutrition and how this affects health and chronic disease and show you how you can use this to optimize your health and happiness both mentally and [Music] physically hey guys just want to take a second to thank our sponsor at carnivore bar I don't promote many products because honestly all you need to be healthy is to just eat meat for those times that you're out hiking road tripping or stuck at work and you want nutritious snack that is just meat fat and and salt if you want it the carnivore bar is a great option so I like this product not because it's just pure meat but also because I want the carnivore Market to thrive as well and the more we support meat only products the more meat only products there will be available in the mainstream so if this sounds like something you'd like to get behind check it out using my discount code Anthony to get 10% off which also applies to subscriptions giving you 25% off total all right thanks guys uh hello everyone this is Dr Anthony chaffy here with you again with another episode of the plant prmd podcast uh today I have a very special guest U Mr Michael Mason who's over in the UK Michael how are you thanks for joining us yeah I'm good thank you thank you for asking me great so you have you have quite a big online presence you've been on on several different uh podcast talking about you know your diet and um uh you know just eating mostly meat predominantly meat and and you just have like brutal uh you know home home workouts that you do and uh and you've been in very inspirational to a lot of people um but for people that haven't come across you can you just give us a bit of a introduction to yourself on on who you are and what you do sure um I'm Michael Mason I live in the UK uh I'm 58 I'm predominantly uh what you call a trainer but I train and coach in martial arts uh I'm a ski coach strength and conditioning um and currently I'm running um Carnival retreats in the Scottish Highland next week is the second one and yeah I mean I I've worked as a bodyguard um body being a bodyguard for you know a fair proportion of of my life specifically in in Switzerland um and I've always been you know involved in just trying to be a better human being simple as that yeah very good so uh that's kind of cool so so these carnivore Retreats that you've been doing so this is the second one how and Scotti Highlands if no one's ever been there go I got like I've been into a lot of places in the world I think Scottish Highlands are still one of my favorite areas it's just absolutely stunning landscape and you just you're just driving for hundreds and hundreds of miles on a single row there's no turn offs the entire time it's just just gorgeous Countryside around you the entire time so I that would be absolutely amazing where was that was that just like deep in the middle of the of the Highlands was just like nothing around you or was it in a town or anything like that it's pretty much one of the remotest Glenns in in Scotland it's in a glen called Glen canic yeah and it's it's literally in in the middle of the you know the upper part between iness and the West Coast um and is I mean it's just magical I mean and I've lived in beautiful places I've lived in the mountains in in in Switzerland that are just of course any any mountain area is stunning but it's just it's just it's just beautiful there um um on a hunting estate um and it's we we staying is is the former Lodge for that and it's just it's like going back a it's like going back a 100 years and you know being the the last s of Russia actually was that Lodge um before he went back to to Russia and then got got the a but anyway yeah exactly but you do wish he did stay there well that sounds amazing so how long did that go for how did that uh how did that go so it's it's a week um and and I do everything so I I take everyone through the breath work all the breath work different types of breath work that I do um eating so we'll eat twice a day it's pretty much a reflection on you know on on what I do so we'll um breath work eating we do some strength type training um and then we go hiking and walking and and as you know like Scotland is raining but it's beautiful um so we do everything outside we do the you know the breath work inside it's overlooking the massive lock in front and uh yeah so I do the breathing the training the cooking and and the eating yeah and a little bit of the talking yeah oh that's good man and uh well it sounds like it went well enough you're doing doing a second one is that something you're going to try to do um ongoing it's how often would you hope to do these so this is this is the the the second one um I'm planning to do another one um January February because I love to do it when there's there's snow on the Hills because it would just be um magical but it is it's not the easiest of places to get to um but then you know people will if they want to do it they were they were they were they were they were find away and last year when I did the first one we were just coming out out of lockdown I wasn't sure if it was going to happen you know it was I had people who had on the course who got covid I wasn't sure if it was just GNA and I just had to make I'm just going to do it the last week uh before it was going on um we had it this this petrol Fiasco in the UK where you couldn't get any petrol or any diesel so a week before and there there was no contingency for that because I'm I take out all the I take of all the food all the training equipment and uh so and this this time it's it's it's it's it's it's it's easy and yeah So the plan is to do um six if I can here and then work out a place where I can do one in the summer oh very good yeah and and it's great that like more of these things are coming around is that is that pretty much carnivore base you just just doing meat and this is for people that are looking for that or you um mix it up because I I know that you basically mostly eat meat but I know you use like you know different seasonings and and things like that as well so yeah so I mean I mean I'll I'll use some I'll use seasonings I'll use some veg if I'm making a stock or making a stew you know simply you know you know you know for the for the flavor profile and I'll make some call it keto esque you know desserts and some ice creams I don't use any almond flour but I'll I'll use Ayo as a sugar and I think just for a way for people to come in um to experience you know a lower carbohydrate diet where they can still experience like good flavor and think oh you I can do that oh I can eat steak and eggs I don't need the bread I don't need you know I don't need the the the hashed Browns I don't need this so to make it as flavorful um as possible and also you know and as you know that one thing we miss on Carnival or let's say perhaps not so much Kito is texture you know it's that you know that bit of you know that bit of crunch because that is um something that happens in the mouth that creates all these other things that going on and just getting something to be delicious and satisfying that people say yeah I can do this I can do this not just for a week or a month I could do this for the rest of my life because we can all do thing we can all do something really really strict for a week a month three months and there's lots of people who are doing really really well being completely strict for for years but there's not that many of them and most people falter um because they can't keep to that sort of strict and I like to eat always like to eat I like to eat nice tasty things and that for me is is is you know it's important it's a pleasure yeah I mean I yeah and I you I do try to tell people like I I've always been happy just eating meat and like that was the only thing I wanted to eat anyway so I was I was as soon as I I had had an excuse to not eat vegetables I'm like right I'm out and so I but you know but I you know I tried to talk to people because you're right you know you need to do something that's sustainable for you this is eminently sustainable for me like I I want nothing else and so it's that's easy for me but it's not for everybody and it's not easy for everyone I should say and and so you know you have to sort of meet people where they are and if if people are just really bucking that you know I I try to tell people that you know you don't have to you know throw away the good for the perfect you know and I I like doing this because first of all I enjoy it but second of all because I I feel the best you know I I I just feel better when I do things like this and so for me that works but for other people you know they may not be able to stick to it at all to any degree if they're as as strict as I am and and it's much better to you know to get rid of most of the stuff that's bad for you and and do something that you can you can continue and you can perpetuate rather than just not doing any anything at all so you know I'm I'm I'm with you on that yeah exactly yeah yeah and you know and there's let's call it the market a lot of people who are not that they have any bad Health um and they eat let's say a relatively good let's call it a Mediterranean diet you know they eat a relatively good diet so they you know fresh vegetables lots of fruit blah blah blah and they're becoming you know I'm going to become more plant-based we're cutting down we're cutting down the meat and because we want to you know save the world and the environment and all this type of stuff and you know and I've got friends like that and and they they see what I'm doing and they're starting think maybe he is he is doing something right and and so it's trying to get those type of people well instead of adding more vegetables what about adding more meat and so you're just bringing it down and and then you can see maybe after a month or two months you you'll start judging like how you feel and if you've got any medical type issues let's see if they go away you know if you're sleeping if you've got you know skin issues all these type of things and it's it's that to me is is like another big part of um you know you know the focus not everyone is coming um and doing this because they're really really ill or they're obese etc etc um so it's I'm trying to have a let's say an open more than Open Door type of policy if that if that's if that's if that's the word and just say look get stop do this this plantbased you know um crap and blah start eating a bit more meat and then try and give them sort of the information about regenerative farming all these type of good practices um and so they can say okay so yeah yeah very good and so how did you come come to this uh to begin with what was your how long have you been sort of you know meat-based and then and what what what brought you around so I've always been you know I've always been you know you know meat based but to to you know to answer like the you know the question it's always been you know everything um has been about evolving understanding researching um what I said before about you know trying to be you know you a better sort of like human being you know from you know from the age my early 20s you know my focus was like you know how can I be a better performing person not just physically but mentally and let's call it let's call it you know you know spiritually so I so I EXP exped with stuff I experimented with being a vegetarian even though when I was growing up I hated ve you know hated vegetables I never I never believed the the popey crap I never I always wanted to be I always wanted to be bluo you know you know and desperate Dan in the comics with the you know with the cow pies with the horns coming out it was just like you know that was the stuff and and I just never got it with with with you know one popey smoked you know you know it was so it was so anyway um back to the you know the question so I started experimenting I started experimenting with you know vegetarianism because I was doing things like protein not not combining protein with carbs and you know and it just sort of you know evolved and being in your 20s you can do an awful lot you can smash your body the body recovers and you don't really feel you know you know you know feel you know feel that bad and and then it just went back to the smell of bacon sandwiches got me back on back on back on track because you know that that may maybe we should just do like put the smell of bacon in you know on the world and get people to oh like you know um and so it just just sort of like you know evolved from from that and then in the late I suppose in the '90s we had like the Atkins diet and that to me was sort of like it was like this this is this is like not this is a good thing because they're saying that cut out bread cut out you know cut out like the heavy you know the starches Etc and you you know eating you know eating bacon and eggs um and and and an interesting you know you know story you know with that you know back then you know my mother both my parents are elderly they're very very ill with dementia Etc but back then you know my mother had um sugar issues diabetes you know always up and down you know blood sugar she was fainting she'd always carry these um these these glucose tablets and I said to her this was this was like a long time ago I said to her said Mom just do one you know one thing just change your breakfast instead of eating bread and and oat oatmeal just eat bacon and eggs smoke salmon and eggs but so she started she started doing that and immediately the blood sugar just there was no issue she wasn't fainting she felt better she went to to have a checkup with the diabetic nurse and you know you have to remember this that my parents were brought up in the time and I know you're a doctor that the do a doctor anyone in the medicala was like the highest of the whatever the doctors said they believed and they they they they they would do she went to see the diabetic nurse and she the diabetic says Mrs Mason you're doing fantastic you dropped some weight your blood sugar is is great they said what have you been doing she says oh my son has put me on this special diet and it wasn't a special diet was just like just eat bacon and eggs and her first words to her was oh I wouldn't do that and there was the evidence mhm my mother came back and she was like really really confused and and it it sort of like this s like makes me sort like like like sad um because you know someone has given information that's that's pretty much help to continue joing someone's life and she said to me oh but I won't mention her name because she's still I think she's still there um she told me not to do what you're doing and she knows what she's doing because she's died diabetic herself and I said to her and I didn't and I've got no issue with people being overweight fat this is not I said was she and I just said to her I said was she fat and she said yeah she said she's huge and I just said and it was it was yeah you know you got someone like that um telling someone yeah with the evidence that's been presented don't do that and unfortunately my mother sort of from then you know believed that believed in medication and all you know all of that so my journey from um has always been about sort of experimentation evolving it and you know and judging how I felt and yeah yeah well I mean more more meat yeah sorry more more meat less crap less bread even if even if it's fantastic amazing s that's been blessed on grains by the Dal still makes me feel crap and and and I hate the fact that it does because I I would love to eat toasted sourdough with butter every day for the rest of my life I feel I feel [ __ ] so yeah that's true and and um you but that's the thing you know you see the evidence right in front of you and you're living the experience of it and then you go back to the other thing and you don't get the same results I mean it's just like how can you how can you first of all as a as a diabetic nurse that's that's really irresponsible for them to do that um and and sometimes it just can be people trying to uh you know justify their own bad actions and if they're if they're doing if they can convince other people to do it then what they're doing is okay it's not abnormal but you know the physicist Richard fan said and I I I quote this guy a lot but it's very true and it's so applicable it doesn't matter how brilliant your theory is and it doesn't matter how smart you are if it doesn't agree with experiment it's wrong and so that diabetic nurse said no no no I wouldn't do that and you know and and she all of a sudden started getting bad results she said don't do this that's giving you good results because you'll get bad results well it's right in front of your face like you're not getting bad results you're in fact getting good results and so that's the only thing that really matters and you would you would hope that somebody working in Diabetic Care would know that there's over a hundred years of data research and Publications in the medical literature showing that the best way to control blood sugar is a ketogenic di hands down you know and and we' and we've we've been using that since the 1800s you know and and yet now just no one has any idea how how to deal with it and I hear you know endocrinologists and and diabetic Specialists you know contemplating all this this ratio of carb this that just stop eating them just stop you don't have to worry about the ratio of this this to that and ratio of calories to you know carbs and just just stop eating carbs it's it's simple biochemistry you know and um and you won't you won't have this this issue and uh it's very frustrating to me being in the medical community that that people in the medical community don't even know the their own literature and their own field it's very frustrating yeah yeah yeah and you and because they were so they were more worried about f or particular saturated fact they were more worried about that than than than oh but you'll get you know you'll get hard attacks and blah blah you know it's just it's just it's just give someone some fear pass on some fear make them frightened and then they would do um what you want yeah well that's the thing too just you you need to watch out for heart disease you don't eat that fat because you get heart disease and say okay so just keep the diabetes make that worse but watch out for for heart disease well here's the thing the number one risk factor for heart disease is being diabetic so if you were really worried about heart disease you would try to get the person to not be diabetic and if you're doing this you know uh if you're doing a ketogenic diet and you're eating a lot of fatty meat and that's helping you not be diabetic anymore and that's the number one risk factor for getting heart disease wouldn't you think that maybe there's a connection there that maybe the things that causing diabetes are also maybe you know making more likely to get heart disease and maybe the thing that's curing your diabetes directly might actually help with heart disease as well I don't know you know I'm just a doctor what do I know but uh I mean that I mean you don't need to be a doctor to to just be able to look and and think logically with these sorts of things you know and which is which is you know what you're doing yeah um so so how how long ago was how how long ago was that and uh and that you've been just basically just eating meat and you you sort of cut out the sour dough and everything I mean that that was that was in the that was in the that was in the 990s oh wow oh well you you know you know that was and you know I'm not academic I you know and probably back then even before there was no there was no internet no Google um when you had to go to a library to to so I was being when I was through my phase of being vegetarian and understanding about being vegan um I had to go to libraries and get to get books to try and now there's so and and going back to your what you were saying there's so much information you know around people can just search on on stuff and like you know get it back then you couldn't so so so so yeah so it was that was back in the you know you know back in the ' 90s and you know and I didn't understand things on a scientific level I didn't understand you know you know being in you know training going to gyms and people be on bodybuilding diets and this type of diet and you know how to reduce fat how to get muscle and and and all of it was just like so you try different stuff you know you try okay eat seven meals a day I mean it's like I don't know how people do that you know I mean these the I I I I don't know how I mean okay the eating part of it I okay you could I could if someone was supposed to prepare it for me then okay but now you have the companies to actually do that so you don't have to do the work of actually cooking for yourself you know because you know I can do that six time but I did it it didn't last very long but you're made to think that's the only way you if you want to put on muscle if you want to be strong you've got to eat six times a day and and then have snacks in between so your blood sugar doesn't go you know you know go be like a cow graze it's like but I'm not a cow I'm not I'm not I'm not I'm not an effing cow but but yeah so it's for me it was just you know exploring exploring different stuff and and as soon as you start making it really really simple of which being Carnival even I would I wouldn't say being keto is is is is simple because you have to weigh things up and you know you work out your macro and it's like you that's too much you know you know much much for me don't eat crap you know cut out the cars get some good meat and and and and eat it and you'll feel I feel great you know I don't about any anyone else I'm strong I can do stuff um active so that to me is my own anecdotal you evidence well you know and the thing is you know some people will scoff at anecdotal lovess but like this is your life you know and uh you know and so it's just that you know you have these good results and you have all these sorts of things and and people can and scoff that off and it's just like okay well I guess it just didn't happen that I guess this person you know didn't recover from you know diabetes and heart disease I guess he's not you know jacked and you know lifting putting up big weights and things like that I guess that's just not not happening then because it's anecdotal you know and people forget that you know these These are data points but data points are people's lives and their experiences and those things are are meaningful you know in medicine we we have randomized control trials we have meta analyses and we also have case studies where we have say hey look at this this is interesting you know and and you know wonder why that is you have someone who has some you know weird wild form of of disease oh well it's that's just anec that's just one case like yeah but it's interesting you know let's figure out why this happened let's figure out why this is an outlier uh when when we don't normally see this you know and then you study that you look at that think about it you know what is this guy doing differently that other people aren't and you know and and it's it's probably good that you didn't have that medical background because in medicine we just get we get told what to think we don't get taught how to think we get we get taught what to think and so unfortunately you get in there because you just get stuffed with books and stuffed with texts and then even as you're a doctor you're doing your residency you just you got to rading reading reading reading reading and it doesn't matter and there I swear to God there are things on like the different boards like in Australia where people just talk about like yeah like half of these things are wrong but you have to learn it their way because that's how they test it and so you have to like learn things the wrong way and some of these some of like in the anatomy sort of things like like there's a there's a textbook they use here which is lasts anatomy and it's not that the whole thing's wildly inaccurate but there there are some things that just that don't make sense and that sort of contradict themselves and that just you know other other anatomical sources would just disagree and say like yeah that's that's really not actually what it is but you have to learn that version of it because that's the version that they test and you know so they're just they're they're training you to just think how we want you to think as opposed to thinking for yourself and so I think that's that's probably the reason why you were able to figure this out 25 years before most other people is because you didn't you didn't you weren't taught what to think you just were able to figure it out for yourself through experiment which is really the best way to go I just always I just always remember and you know I used to eat steak a steak a steak steak for breakfast and I just always used to feel really really good and when I was eating you know let's say I'd have some bread with it or I'd have some bread or some and I didn't feel good and I couldn't understand you know and I couldn't but the bread the post with a bit of marmalade and everything you know you get that you know you get that or it makes you feel good that that hedonistic sort of feeling that you that you that you get I couldn't let go I couldn't way it's not I wanted to hang on to that but eating meat eating like a you know a steak for breakfast you know I used just feel like you know amazing and I used to have um we used to train group of us martial arts we train on the Saturday in the dojo and then after after training they used to come back to mine and I used to make everyone breakfast and it would just be steak and eggs and you know my friends still like you know recall that time you know 30 years ago oh I can't you know remember your breakfast you know you steak and eggs and it was just everyone felt good you know it wasn't muffins it wasn't um donuts and and I still like this idea that you know I'd love to eat donuts you know I would love to sort of you know if if I could and it you know it it made me sort of like strong and I felt great and everything was groovy then I'd be I'd be eating them but unfortunately that's in a parallel universe or something you know it's not it's not in today's reality um but I'd love to yeah well I would too I mean I I think the first time I I had like a Crispy Cream dut like off the with the hotl they just came out I was just like oh my God this is the best thing I've ever tasted in my life you know just that just that hot sweet sort of you know bubbly fat it was just amazing and I and I would I would you know and that's the thing it's it's supposed to be like that it's addictive and you just you crush five boxes of those things that's the whole point and uh that's that's the business model and um you know I mean I I I enjoy drinking like I've always enjoyed drinking I you know I I I uh you know we know played Sports and things like that we you know we went out drinking after rugby games that's exactly what we did and um you know it's um it's a a shame that it just makes me feel like crap and that I can't perform and uh and and Excel in the way that I that I enjoy doing if I even drink once a week you know drinking once a week after games that was enough to just derail me um but I didn't even know that at the time it it wasn't until I stopped drinking and I was you know I was an All-American I was playing very high level and drinking and then when I stopped it was just took off you know my my athleticism my performance and my fitness just just went to just crazy New Heights and then just randomly enough around the same time I went carnivore as well but they were two separate events and I just felt amazing I would love to drink I you know I would I would drink all the time I would absolutely have no problem drinking you know heroin let's do it you know but there there are side effect there are problems there ramifications to these things and uh you know so you know that there's never going to be something where I'm going to want to do like heroin certainly Jesus Christ but like but like you know drinking it's very rare it's very very very rare when I find something you know a situation where I want to drink more than I want to feel amazing for the next month because I've noticed that like that when I drink even I mean I'm not even hung over the next day but my energy levels just they're they're not like I'm bottoming out but they're not what I'm supposed they're not where I'm normally at you know and they're and my and my exercise tolerance is just not the same I can't do the same workouts I don't feel as good working crazy shifts at work you know if I was just doing a normal 9 to5 and I wasn't working out uh the way I I you know do occasionally I haven't been unfortunately able to get um much done in the last couple months but normally if I'm able to work out a lot and and you know I I like to I like working out for two three hours four hours sometimes I like that I enjoy that but there's no way I can do that even for the next next three weeks four weeks after I drank and so that's not worth it to me you know if I was if I wasn't living that lifestyle where I had to work a 36 hour shift 48 hour shift at the hospital and be ready to go the whole time and you know working out for a number of hours then I probably wouldn't even notice much of a difference you know but because I've done that and because you know you know playing High Level Sports you know just drinking that one time absolutely made a huge difference for me it's just you know that for me wasn't worth it but yeah I agree with you I would love to do that but I guess it's you know I enjoy doing something but I enjoy you know feeling amazing more yeah I mean you for me life is too short for me to feel crap on you know you know on even even for even for one day because it's it's almost the it's it's now sort of you know intensified you know I will take sometimes I you know will take it if I'm being invited somewhere and I know it's going to be good excuse me I have a you know I have a very very good friend of mine he's he's one of the best chefs one of the best chefs in the UK one of the best chefs probably you know in the world he has a two star meing restaurant nice and you know he he invites me up you know you know every you know sometimes I you know sometimes I go past and you know and and he'll send me stuff he'll he he knows know he knows what I do do and he tries to sort of almost like do what I'm doing um and I'm not going to pass up that that that opportunity because one the food is fantastic but the interesting thing with that is that when it's a oneoff and I'm prepared to take that hit if I do feel and I and honestly I don't but at that that level of cooking is that everything is so balanced with it's it's it's it's more just about that flavor explosion and rather than it's not about filling you up it's not about like have more bread here like oh does it does it come with does it come with mashed potato you know it's just and to me it's that that that whole experience is just far greater than than the nutrition that I'm you know getting it's just it's a whole thing so there are certain things that would take a hit and and some things aren't you know aren't worth it if I get invited I used to sort of un blank people if I got invited for dinner because I knew like the food would be sort of crap and I'm not you know I've got other things to do and I had one friend in in in in in Switzerland and she was she was Italian and I always knew whenever she invited me over I always knew this was going to be good because she knew what I was doing like we got loads of meat they they used to get scared have we got enough meat for you he's like you we got plenty of meat for I know I know that I'm going to go there yeah that's nice I just I just I just feel I don't want to spend days feeling crap yeah I don't want to you know you not even like physically but just just here yeah you know it's it's just it's just not worth it for me yeah yeah I mean I remember when I was studying for my mcats going to medical school I had I had brain fog every single day and I remember thinking back at the time that's when I actually switched over because I was just I was studying for 14 hours a day and like this just every day and so you know I didn't I just wasn't thinking about normally I would mostly just eat meat um but at that time I just wanted to make something quick so I I I I remember just there was there was weeks that I was just mostly just eating um like whole wheat pasta like that was it because I could just boil it up real quick just have a bunch of pasta and then just like eat it and then just move on and and and that's what I needed to just I I just needed something quick and easy to do obviously cooking a Ste is easier but like at that time that's what that was in my head that was what was was quick and easy and I remember just every single day my head was just in a fog all day and I remember waking up in the morning everything was great and then like a couple hours into my day I'm just just droopy and drowsy and like my head my brain just didn't work and I I remember thinking I was like why doesn't my brain work I got enough sleep I shouldn't be tired why is this happening and I thought I just chocked it up to maybe allergies or something like that but as soon as I stopped eating you know certainly grains but but even even the greens you know my mental Clarity just just changed like that and um you know and that's and that's the thing like I I like my brain working you know and and and certainly something that I that I need to work in u the things that I do because I I'm I have to read a lot I have to you know go through a lot of you know even just when I'm seeing patients I have to go through a lot of patient data and be able to make you know connect between very vague symptoms sometimes and and figure figure things out and if my brain's not working I'm not going to be good at my job and and that's uh and if I'm not good at my job you know you don't just miss a deadline you know someone's health is affected and so that's not really that's not something that I can afford to do um it's not something I'm willing to do and uh and yeah I I I just think it's you know for me it's it's a no-brainer um but what what are you eating now what what's your like your day-to-day at this point so I mean I'll eat twice a day um I I just let's let's call it I don't know what you because everyone's got different names for it time restricted feeding intimate I eat twice a day I have breakfast around sort of what's commonly you called lunchtime around 12 or 1 because I like to do everything in the morning it that's you know that works for me and I know people will come up with a study or it's better to do early feeding this is what you know works of meat U with with and it would just generally be um steak I'll I'll grind my own mints my own ground beef I'll make burgers it would be Burgers steak with eggs maybe with some bacon it just depends on what I've got which I've normally got a lot you know how I feel but I find that I need to eat the first meal needs to be quite substantial otherwise I start feeling a little bit hungry you know in the in the afternoon so if I can have a really big um let's call it breakfast um that's that work for me and then I'll eat six or seven and normally pretty much it's it's just the same as what I had for breakfast but maybe maybe not maybe not as much it just it you know it it it just it just depends um yeah cuz I can I can eat it all I can eat it you you all you all the time and and that pretty much that pretty much is is it you know I'll scramble the eggs I'll fry some eggs I'll poke some eggs I'll have some wild salmon um you know like wild salmon I won't eat the normal normal type salmon I'll eat some chicken now and then you know I can eat three times the amount of chicken I can with with beef but sometimes it's just it's just I make really nice chicken it's you know something it's crunchy with with the fat um but yeah so it's it's it's basically steak and eggs times two yeah nice and um and you said you eat uh or sorry you eat later in the day because you're you're doing your workouts in the morning is that right yeah I like to and I've I've done this for you know you know for you know for you know for you know for a long time you know I was when I used to eat breakfast I never even what to to to a degree even what I was was eating um I never felt that great if I had to if I had to do something you know like fairly sort of like physical and like living in Switzerland was a ski instructor and you know going back on sort like you know you know this is a long time ago what I used to eat oatmeal and you know i' I'd made Flat jaacks the night before and I'd eat the whole I'd eat one I eat eat the whole tray because oh you're going to burn it off in the morning but in the morning you know you have oatmeal when put some peanut butter and some some honey or some and then it tastes great you know it tastes that tastes fantastic with some bananas and and some cream you know it's amazing so I'd had that in the morning the time I would leave to to get to work to get to the resort I'd have to stop into a cafe to have some some mint tea just to just to settle like like the stomach or something like so after a while I just started you know not teting and so intely went into not having anything and and that's pretty much how you know I lived you know a large proportion you know my my skiing life was not having any breakfast and I could ski with clients high level all day long and not eat not not eat anything and then once I started making that uh you know the cutting out more of the the grains more of the you know the cars you know you know I thought you even you know even better and you know people say well don't you need all that energy to to keep warm well well well no no you don't I mean it's you know I you I you I didn't um and and that for me just you know my head felt clear I felt strong and it's so so yes so I just feel really really good not eating first let's call it Thurs thing in the morning sometimes I wake up sometimes you know very very rely I wake up and I think oh I'm actually hungry so sometimes I you know I do you know I do that but generally I don't and then I'll train do other stuff I've got to do and then eat 12 1:00 sometimes it's a bit later and it just yeah that's what works for me yeah I I certainly noticed that like I feel much better training faster and just just doing my normal work day fast that I just feel better and have a lot more energy when you when you have your sort of midday meal uh your breakfast um is it you say you eat a lot so do you do you get a bit sort of lethargic afterwards I know that if I if I fill up during the day like I'm I'm just dragging the rest of the day at work I think you know that's that's a good question because I think you know it's it's like it's like that fine line of judging you know judging it right and sometimes you know sometimes I don't judge it I eat too much you know I'm aware you know I'm you know I'm I'm I'm aware of that and I think sometimes you can get caught up especially sort of like you know being on social media and and and you know you want to do things a little bit more a big Stak I put that on it and and I don't want to leave it so so yeah and it's just it's just it's just sort of judging judging it right but yeah if I eat too much um I can be like that the lion that sort of um falls asleep after yeah which is not a bad sort of you know it's not a bad thing to you know to S like to look like but yeah but yeah well if you can do it and like certainly like an afternoon nap like I I'll take a siesta any day that I can you know I if I'm able to but yeah it's just sometimes you're not not able to in the day yeah yeah yeah so what's your training program now like you have you have um you different videos and things like that where you just like you've got a pretty awesome setup uh there I'm assuming that's that's your house like your backyard and and yeah and she got just a ton of different things tons of of different weights but also um you bands I think from the look of it and then also just sort of uh a different sort of put together sorts of sorts of weights and things like that to to get your own workout so what's your routine now so I just I mean I put everything together on the day you know I mean I'll have I'll have let's say uh a warm up so I'll do I'll do some hanging I do some squat holds I'll do um a banded a little banded to batter um as you know as you know as a you know as a warmup and then really it just goes from you know what a f really what a fancy is sort of doing but you know over the week I know that I'm going to pull something you know do a deadlift pull something heavy I'll do some form of of of squat and some form of pressing movement in with every you know as you know as as a mix and you know I'm you know I carry a lot of like old injuries um through martial arts training through through crashing when I'm skiing um you know broken my back I've had surgery you know broken pretty much every part you know every every part part of me so my training is just about how I can maintain and still be of strength maintain and still build muscle be as agile and as mobile and and let's say as powerful as I can be um without trying to batter or trying to sort of batter myself and oh my PR I've beaten my PR and I've beaten this today it's just about sort of uh moving and and and keeping strong and developing more of a an internal type of strength um rather than just doing stuff th for numbers you know and and and getting injured because it becomes competitive with with me um and just about just about move but underlining it and topping it is about doing everything with with with good movement with good form um and that for me is is you know is is is the most important thing and and you know with that you'll get that intensity and it's that intens that that creates that adaptation um so yeah so that's that's that's the type of so it's not a program it's just what I decide to do you know you know on you know on you know on the day and I like I like playing I like playing with stuff um and it's all to do with my background in martial arts my background in in in Chun you know the emphasis on being on having on being strong in the legs in the core the skiing you know all you know that the ability to be uh resilient you know you know as you know as a contact you know it doing in con sport the more resilient you are because you you've got stronger muscle um if you take a hit you know so I get thrown um I I do have a crash skiing which happens I can just walk away you know from it unscathed is yeah yeah that was good and are you training every day now or do you have like a split or do you take days off or anything like that no you know I you know this is a question that people you know you know ask a lot I mean I train it you know I train every I move every day and I'll always do some band work every day I'd always do some hanging or some squat holds you know every day just for you know just for you know mo you know mobility and you know the way that uh that I look at it is that if I had a physical job if I was a farmer and I'd be I'd actually quite I'd love to be a farmer but if I was a farmer there aren't any days off yeah you'll be doing stuff every single day you don't know what you're going to do every day you may have a plan what you need to move but if there's a problem with with a sheep that you have to carry or or a calf or you're having to lift heavy stuff you know the tractor breaks down you all this sort of stuff you're working every day so I like to do stuff you you know every day there there's no plan to do every stuff every day but I I just feel better even if it's just even if I just have a heavy heavy um something heavy to pick up I just do it once yeah I just do it once just just so the body doesn't forget what you know what I'm doing so yeah that's that's really my my way of doing stuff yeah well I you know and I I've always felt better if I if I had something whether or not I'm I'm doing some big crazy workout in the gym or something like that if I'm doing something just physically active and strenuous to certain degree I just feel better in general and uh and I think you're right you know because you look back historically people were always doing something they were always moving they were always you know doing something uh uh physical um and and then even you know before that you know prehistoric days people were definitely doing things you know physically you know because you you were just out you know you know messing around with lions and trying to hunt and kill you know animals that were much bigger than you you had you had a lot of things to do physically and so we're we are designed for that and you know whether you know you have you know some perfect physiological balance on this is exactly how you get the most out of every workout and to get the most muscle growth you know who knows but you know we are certain capable and able to do a lot of physical activity every day I think I don't think there's any doubt of that and and especially when you're when you're feeding yourself properly and giving yourself appropriate nutrition and so yeah that makes sense and you know on on and you know another question that I get um a similar question is like you know do you take rest days and and my answer to that is that well no I sleep well right and if you if you eat well and you sleep well that is that's that's the recovery yeah um you know what do you mean by Resto where I just sort of don't do anything um I'm always having to do something you know I've got a dog that needs to be to be taken care of um he he wants his he wants his walk and play and he's a big dog he's bigger than me um so so and sleep is such a fundamental you you know fundamental part of of of you know of recovery so eating well you're going to sleep better if you sleep well then you can just get up the next day ready to to deal with whatever happens yeah absolutely and um so you've been I think you you're starting the Retreats I know you guys have like a UK Meetup which is great you know UK is uh you know obviously big big um country but it's also small enough in the sense that you can you can probably do National meetups a bit more readily um what are are you trying to grow the carnivore movement and you know uh in the UK or what's your what's your plans for that side of things well not that I mean not that there's um I have a let's say a specific you know you know plan you know building let's say like the community you know the community is going is is it's it's growing um we've got a the next big Meetup is is actually is actually when I'm away on uh I think it's next next next Saturday or the week you know the week the week the week after um I think it you know I think in the UK and I would say the same like with with with Europe it's going to take a little bit longer for people to let's say get on board because and this is how I you know how I sort of uh look at it is that you know in you know in the US you've got people whove been really who are quite vocal you know and we all know the one the ones who scream and shout when when when when when when they're doing a video or that that you and I think that that that to a degree sort of like does sort of engage people oh I'm going to try that you know whether it's the liver king or whether it's you know you you know whereas I think in the UK we're a little bit more we're a little bit more you know subtle so I think the growth would take a little bit let's say more of a steady type of but I think now that um doctors in the UK you know you know are getting on board there's a new um um charity Public Health collaboration of of doctors who are trying to sort of um get their patients to go promoting more of a a low carb way of fixing things and I think as this type this um type of stuff gets traction that's what's going to draw in people because people they don't want you know me screaming and shouting you know eat your steak you know you be big and strong and you you're going to cure diabetes you're going to be you know the biggest Alpha Primal whatever they want to hear it from someone like you saying like you know this isn't good for you this is good for you this is the evidence etc etc um so so it's going to grow um you know in that way I mean hopefully I can sort of like you know have something to do with that by people saying well you here's this guy this is what he eats he doesn't eat that he does this you know he's almost 60 um Etc ET he's got you you know so in a small way if I can do you know if I can do something you know as part of that but it's going to it's going to come from the people who who can who can who can assure people this is the evidence I can I can bring up a study I can give you a study I can give you some data but Mike you're not a doctor but Mike you're not you don't have a PhD but Mike blah blah blah yeah but there's the [ __ ] evidence it's it's there they don't listen they don't want to listen to you know you know the people I'm going to attract the people who actually sort of like don't want that and just say okay well I'm going to try I'm going to try what he's doing yeah and that's how I try to promote myself is like this is what I do this is what works for me I don't know if it's going to work for you there's a good chance that it will but this is this is what I do um I've got nothing really to to to prove so so yeah so it's so it's growing it's it's good that we are small because we can do it's very easy to do like a little mini Meetup we can do a big a meet up and and so yeah so it's going to it it will start to grow I think over the next year or so I think there's going to be you know quite a big explosion hopefully I mean it's going be you people people have had enough of being people have had enough of of of feeling [ __ ] people have had enough of of not being like what you know what do I do I'm being told to do this I'm being told to do that the the government is telling me to eat you know 10 portions of this and 10 portions of that you know but I'm still sick you know I'm still sick I don't want to I don't want to go on statins I don't want to have more medication I want to be a thriving human being yeah yeah you know and yeah I think I think people are exactly getting tired of just you have more problems you just have more pills you know I people people by and large don't like taking pills and you they come in and and you you just have problem is like oh okay well here here's a pill for it and then so people are like Jesus God done another pill and they just want they want to be fixed they don't want to have just some pill to like mask over the top of it maybe that was fine for a time when we thought that oh this was just this magic cure and this was and this would just you know help you live your life and do but it's it's it's gotten to the point of absurdity where you know I see patients in the hospital and you know we we see them and we get a list of their medications and they're like on 16 medications and you know that that's just crazy you know that uh that people are on all of these things and especially when you know when when no one sort of looked down like okay why is this why why why is the prevalence of these things increase so dramatically what's underlying here what have we changed in our environment to precipitate these dramatic changes or is it that people have always had these problems and we've just never had a pill for them uh I'm not in that Camp I think that that's garbage you know because uh you know we we we have kept very close track of the disease rates in America since the 1800s like like seriously we we've and I'm sure the UK is very similar maybe even longer in the UK you know it's um it's been we had very very close records on these things and certainly in the last hundred years we have very very very good data on these things and it's very clear that these these diseases have some of them come out of nowhere heart disease is really a disease of the 20th century that that really wasn't around in any real numbers before that that we we knew of and and now it's just it's the number one killer on Earth and it has been for 60 years you know well in the Western World anyway so I just don't I just don't buy that and it's getting worse why is that you know it was a number one killer when we started keeping track of this sort of in the you know 60s and 70s and it's tripled since then so obviously what we're doing is not helping you know I mean and I think we're sitting on you know a huge Time Bomb yeah you know you know when I go um when I pass the school and I see the kids coming out and again this is not being anti-at or you know people can do whatever they want but when I was at school you know in all the years there was there was generally like one fat person through you know through you know through you throughout you know we did things about you know what kids do we we made fun etc etc you know that's what people did they did back then perap it's changed now um but there was one that kid in the year that was it now you know you know I go past the score you know and it's and I'm I'm just shocked because it's like it's like finding like the the one who isn't yeah or you know overweight and you know you go to the supermarkets and you just think Jesus Christ you know at what point is that going to get what point is that going to change and you know I look at people in their teams in in their 20s and their 30s you know and it's like they're all carrying excess weight they're all looking um they're not looking healthy that I mean that's whether they got weight or you know or not then they don't look the way that they stand there there's no body structure you think well this is it's not a oneoff it's only going to this is only going to get you know you know worse and then when you do have something like another another uh what I'm not even going to mention the word but you know another sort of pandemic or you know that comes or then it's these people who you who aren't you know who aren't going to make it you physically or you know or you know you know you know or or mentally um and so yeah I think we're just sitting on a on a huge Time Bomb yeah I know I totally agree and it's um you have you have to sort of Wonder like because there's so many recommendations about doing basically the opposite of what we've seen gives you know a great benefit to life and to and to health and and we're trying to you know normalize being sick and normalize being uh you know unhealthy and I don't I don't think that we should do that I don't think that's that's good for people to do that I I don't I don't think you need to make people feel bad about things and and be horrible to them just because they're unhealthy but at the same time you shouldn't just say no no that that's really good it's good that you're doing things that you're smoking and drinking and eating cupcakes that that's actually that's you know that that's a good thing it's like it's not a good thing I'm sorry but it's not and you it's objectively bad you know I mean a good thing morally ethically I mean that's a different story but we were talking about just health for health ramifications that has objectively poor outcomes when you do that and so if you want to do that then that's your business but you shouldn't shouldn't be fooled into thinking that it's that it's not going to come without a cost yeah and just getting back to one of there's a a post office in a a shop that's opposite of school so sometimes I going to this post office to do some some some posting and of course like shop outside of school so it's you know it's full of crisps and chocolate and it's it's a it's a new what we call him UK news agent so it's got all that but now they've got um and it was put in in the in the summer just before the term start if another it's a machine at the back and it's a and it's like a big um Banner on the top plant-based and it's a milkshake machine that you can get Oreo Oreos uh Snickers all all these things because it's it's it's it's but they're selling it because it's plant-based oh my God and that to I mean that I mean that to me is just you know it's like they're saying yeah you can eat this [ __ ] because it's plant-based and and people will and to me that's I mean to me that is is is that's that to me is Criminal yeah well that is that's that's a that's being a drug dealer it is it is you know and I mean they should they should have a cigarette dispenser next to that same plant-based as well you know I mean they're it's all plant-based and you yeah you know and you know like like a you know you know Beer Dispenser as well and and that's the thing I mean I think this is this really is drug I was actually just thinking about this this is this is like the you know the you know the Opium uh trade like like it was back in the day people getting fabulously wealthy pushing things that are just destroying people's lives and sugar is addictive that that is that is a medical and biochemical fact down to the the strictest medical definition of what is a drug like an addictive you know um substance an illicit drug sugar meets all the categories you know this this hits a dopamine response to the addiction centers of your brain Just Like Cocaine heroin and meth and it kills the same areas of your brain as cocaine heroin and meth and it just and it damages the body in the same way as alcohol people don't like hearing that but it's a fact you know that that is a biochemical fact that has been shown biochemically at the UCSF biochemistry Department that fructose is broken down into the same components as alcohol and it causes the same damage as those breakdown as those same components do from alcohol you get fatty liver disease curosis diabetes heart disease and s implicated in cancer and Alzheimer's so this is a drug by the strictest definition it damages your brain to the same extent as meth and it damages your body to the same extent as alcohol why in God's name are we allowing children to have this I mean like you know if if cigarettes and and alcohol are age restricted why isn't sugar oh because it's nummy and kids like it yeah they'd like cigarettes and alcohol too probably well eventually they like alcohol but like you know there there are little kids in Indonesia that like were smoking cigarettes and like one kid's like three years old he smokes three packs a day Show's he's gone all over the Internet uh because of that like well he he likes it and he gets really upset when when we don't give it to him so I guess we're just going to keep giving him cigarettes it's like well of course he he wants him he's going to throw a tantrum it's a drug he's addicted just like kids do uh when they don't get their sugar fixed you know if you give them cocaine they'd probably like that too you know I mean it's a drug you don't give drugs to kids and people think that that a drug is only as bad as the high it gives you for some reason people think that think heroin is just this horrible horrible thing well actually the the chemical heroin opiates we use we use opiates in people with chronic pain for decades doesn't actually cause physical harm to their body it's addictive and you can you can damage yourself chasing that addiction and use dirty needles and prostitute yourself and and live in un unsavory conditions and and you know commit crimes to chase that that addiction but the the chemical itself if not you know off the street with a whole bunch of nasty stuff in it with it but like just opiates don't actually cause physical damage to your body alcohol does sugar does so so you know why why are we separating these things and and saying that one is okay and the other isn't you know I think that if you're going to do this rationally you need to you need to hold the same standards to all of these things and I'm not I'm not even a person that that thinks that necessarily drugs should be illegal I think there's that's a that's a debate that we can have I just think that there are certain things that c that certainly should be age restricted when you have kids with developing brains and bodies that you shouldn't you know you should restrict things that are going to cause serious permanent harm and uh and disrupt their development I think that's a no-brainer well we well we live in a world that you know there's instant gratification for you know for everything you know you know when I was a kid it it was you know I started martial arts in 1973 because the film end of the dragon and a famous series called Kung with David Kine came out it was on a Friday night and you had to wait a week to watch it again you couldn't download the whole the whole thing when we had treats at home it was you know once a week I remember sort of my mother bringing out you know it sounds sort of like just bringing out sort like you know these after eight minuts on a Friday night so you'd wait a week I didn't really like them but but it was like you waited you waited a week um but now we don't now we don't now we don't do that so kids have the Treats they're not treats anymore there you know kids don't have anything to look forward to because they're having it when they want um so they having you all the you know all the the chocolate bars in every day so and that to me is is is you know is is is such uh you know a big issue because people want everything now they don't want want to they don't want to work for anything if I said to something look you know if you want to get strong and fit blah blah blah it's going to take you to get to list it's going to take two years they don't want to know that they want what can I do can I do something in a day you know courses you know if you want to get educated in whatever it is you can do a day or two day course and you can get a certification and it's like you know oh I'm I'm I'm I'm this now people well hold on it it should take takes years people don't people don't want you know people don't want that here they want that instant gratification kids want that instant gratification um the kids are just so drawn into you know you know you watch kids coming out the school they're all like this yeah you know that's it they don't they have there's no awareness the you know everyone's wearing earphones looking at the phone they're crossing the roads they don't look at they don't look at there's no awareness to there's no awareness to to to the outside world and there's the only awareness is is to that so there's no awareness to the outside world there's no awareness to their body um how how how do you feel um but they don't know they're so uh yeah yeah I agree and it's getting worse you know I mean Mark Twain talked about it in the in the late 1800s how you know all these things are commercialized and we're being convinced that you know we need all these things that that we have to have these things that didn't exist 10 years ago and that that don't mean anything bring nothing to our lives and you would think that he was describing modern day but he was talking about the late 1800s and oh my God and we're talking about our grandparents and how things were just such so so much better back then and that would have been you know far and a way past that it been their grandparents that would have been in Mark Twain's time looking at this going like this is crazy so we have gone so far beyond the pale and I mean it's you you hope that we haven't gone past a point of no return but like you say I mean we have an entire generation of people a couple Generations deep now that are just stuck to their phones all the time and have been raised like that and you know I mean there are studies um going back you know to the 90s looking at uh screen time and and just watching TV for kids and they they you know concluded that you know kids really shouldn't watch television before they're two at least they it actually really impacts neural development and so for at least the first two years they should never look at a screen honestly I think that it would be it' be better if they just didn't maybe till they were 15 out of the house they can buy their own damn phone or something like that but you know but but at least when their their brain is developing those early years and you see the difference in kids that are raised in front of screens and that or the ones that don't have it and so the parents are forced to interact with them and play games with them and do puzzles with them and read to them those kids develop so much more they get have such a big advantage and and they're you know able to you know later on in life play video games and do these things but they're not beholden to them necessarily and they've they gotten so much more out of that U that early interaction with adults which is what we all everyone used to get that was always the way because you know we didn't have we didn't have historically didn't have TVs and things like that you had to read books you had to you know do puzzles and do games there was there was something I read was like all like the major Executives for most of the social media companies um you know asking is like you know do your kids have your platform you know like you know Twitter Facebook you know whatever it was and then the answer was resounding no my kids don't have a smartphone and you know instead of getting video games and getting tablets and doing all all the little gadgets all these people in Tech they didn't they got these you know you know exquisitly made you know wooden toys from you know from Switzerland and like that's what these kids played with and there were puzzles there things that grew their brain and actually were you know used uh tactically as opposed to just sitting on a screen all the time and just and just numbing their brain we used to call the the television you know the boob tube or the idiot box you know and now our lives are we we constantly have an idiot box in front of us all the I'm I'm guilty of this too and I and I hate it and I really do I wish I I could just delete all social media but unfortunately you know trying to get you know the podcast and these things out there like this is just what we have to do these are the mediums that we have and unfortunately I find myself on these stupid things way more than I want to be and it just takes so many uh more hours I think I want because I'm always thinking like oh there's something on there I should be doing I should be doing I should be doing and there generally isn't and or if it is it's not it's not all that big of a deal and it's and it's distracting me from doing other actual worthwhile things that at the end of the day I go like Jesus Christ I didn't even do that I wanted to read this book book all day and I get to the end of the day and I haven't even open the damn thing like jam it you know and and I find myself doing that too even though I'm like fighting against it yeah I mean I would just you get drawn into sort of like living a life where you think I need to have this I mean and you know when the dog is like I'll leave the phone in in in the car and it's just like oh but what if you know yeah as I said before you know I've got elderly parents mom's 94 dad's 90 I'm waiting it's I'm sort of like waiting for the call because I've had it so many times dad's in hospital we think this could be the moment and so I live my life just like well I better have it just in case even though I can get back home in it but I'd like just to leave the phone in the in the in the car and you know and just not have like the hour and I like to take pictures so oh yeah but I'll take a nice picture you we get drawn we get drawn into that but with just with the kids and you know you know you mentioned Switzerland because I us us live there and you know you know I've taught I've taught hundreds of kids um you know that's that's that's that's that's what that's what you end up doing but T hundreds of kids you know you know you skiing you know in groups and privately and you'll get some kids who are just super super not just super super clever you know the ones who are four five and six they're already speaking three four languages because they're living in a foreign country their dads from one country the mother's from another country they're learning English and I'd be on the lift with these like these kids and you're having a conversation and I'm judging I'm sort of judging my intelligence with a seveny old I'm just thinking like how do you know that yeah how do and it's like I think I'm think I'm really I'm really must be really really thick and then you know you talk to the parents and they some dep say yeah they don't have the internet you know they read and blah exactly you know what you know what you know what what you say and I'm was just like blown you know blown you know blown away I remember having one kid she was three um and she spoke father was Dutch I was father was Dutch mother was Hungarian so she spoke Dutch Hungarian French and English and and she and she saids my she you've be saying saying to me oh My English isn't so good and it was me living living living in Switzerland and my French is probably worse now than it was was when I was you know you know eight um and by friend I was always teaching in in in in in in English uh and all my clients were English English English speaking and I'm just like looking at myself and I'm being like really really small because I can't even yeah and you get her yeah no internet no we just play with her does you it's amazing it's amazing when you see kids um who are just I suppose what you call it raised naturally yeah yeah well and and that's how people used to be raised and they were just you know they were justy things people just knew these things and now you know we have you know the you video games and and social media raising them which is terrible and and that and we have you know this whole other subject of you know kids being depressed and not having you know a direction to go in well we used to we used to you know it used to be that you didn't just oh let a kid be a kid and it's so magical and wonderful no it's not like kids need direction you know a child is hardwired to look at their parents and say okay how do I survive as adult because I'm going to be an adult and I need to survive like mammals are hardwired for that you know baby cheetahs yeah they'll play and they'll R they'll do all that stuff when Mom starts hunting they're like studying it and they're like like mimicking what she's doing and everything like that because it's it's so important like you will die if you don't get these skills and so these kids you know are hardwired to do that and hardwired to pull in um these uh you know the these skills and we're not taking advantage that well a lot of people aren't taking advantage of that sounded like those parents were taking advantage of that and instead of of teaching them skills that will benefit them as adults and help them be successful in life they're just saying like oh we'll just you know just go play video games and now all of that attention is now going into video games and now they're obsessed with with video games or television or social media and they're depressed and they're unhappy and they don't have social skills and they you know and there's all these problems that you know come about from just like an existential crisis like what am I going to do with my life what am I going to be like all these sort things well if they're if you help children grow into adults from the beginning they're not going to have that problem to begin with they're going to be very very directed I mean look look at any kid who's you know who whose parents are like Farmers or something like that and they grow up on the farm like yeah this is just what I'm doing yeah I just do this this is what I'm going to do they they have they have a lot of Direction in their life they have a lot of um you know self aaction fulfillment because they they they know exactly what they're going to do with their life and they're and they're working towards it you know and that's that's something that's so simple to think about but it's something that a lot of people are missing when Now sort of you know parents are so worried about their kids doing anything or don't do that you may hurt yourself or don't do that so kids don't do anything because they may hurt themselves but guess the farmer you said the the dad would just say go and pick that up up yeah he hasn't told the kid oh you've got to do this in a certain way you know just pick it up bring it over here whereas now or don't do that because you may cut yourself you may you it's it's it's it's uh yeah it's it's we are learning how to be grow be human beings a simp you know it's it's a simp it's a simple as that yeah it's slight slightly different but I train with Rusty weight because they they're left outside and I get messag of oh I I get lots of weird message or you're going to you know you're going to have a teus and blah blah blah and it's like yeah I can imagine how you're bringing out your kids yeah and um yeah and so you know and and um you people aren't being allowed they're allowing kids to fail anymore they're trying to protect them from that you know like people learn from mistakes you know everyone's everyone every successful entrepreneur everything like that you know it's just like you know said that you know it's just like yeah I had this one idea I had 5,000 that didn't work you know it's it's it's the the getting up and picking yourself off and dusting yourself off and and going and doing it again that's what makes you successful is just getting up and doing it again getting up and doing it again you know when I I was first started playing rugby I had you know everything in my head I was just like I just wanted to be you know a great player I want to just dominate people and just nail people and you know I didn't know what the hell I was doing a lot of the time and sometimes I was some just someone blows me up and I get up on the ground I'm like right well this is how that happened I'm not going to let that happen again and you learn and you do it and and eventually you know I'm I'm the one you know blowing people up and that was that was great and you know and someone and if someone got something on me one time and be like right we're going to file that away and that's never happening again or I'm going to use that against someone else next time you know that's how you learn and people aren't allowing them to do that not say go pick that up oh they might cut themselves like yeah good then they'll be more careful next time that's a good lesson you know you can tell someone a thousand times what it happens to them oh go don't want that to happen you know you remember those things and and we're just we're just not letting we're not letting that happen and we're getting you know people that aren't able to function as capably as adults as they could have and I think that's a that's a serious disservice uh to to to our in our future you know Generations yeah cool all right well uh Michael it's been an absolute pleasure uh to talk to you uh I really hope we do it again I'm just conscious we've been sort of sort of going here on a terar for like 90 minutes now um but it's it's really appreciate you taking the time uh to speak with me today um where can we find you and how can people uh see your work and and support you it's be my pleasure thank you for asking me um I'm just on Instagram and it's it's Mason Mason survival um you can get in touch with me there ask me questions about Retreats and everything else that I I do yeah Mason survival but yeah it's been it's been an absolute pleasure perfect great well I'll put that up in in the show notes and people can find you there so great all right Michael it's been an absolute pleasure and I hope to do it again soon you it time for eing now yeah breakast time that's it there you go awesome see thank you [Music]