Reversing Teen Depression, Cystic Acne, ADHD, and Obesity!

welcome to the plant free MD podcast with Dr Anthony chafee where we discuss diet and nutrition and how this affects health and chronic disease and show you how you can use this to optimize your health and happiness both mentally and physically [Music] hey everyone it's Dr Anthony Chaffey here with another episode of the plant free MD podcast and I'm here with members of the carnivore vitality and Daniel they just started a new uh YouTube and social media based looking at their Journey with carnivore so guys thank you very much for coming on us nice to have you yeah awesome so um can you guys tell me maybe start with with admin first um where how did you guys come around to carnivore what what uh made you interested in the first place yeah so I'll probably be interested in nutrition and kind of how to improve my health for probably a couple years now when I was around 16 I started taking it a bit more seriously and just kind of loosely looked into it watching videos hearing different people's opinions um and then it was probably around nine months ago that I discovered the low carb kind of space the keto space and the reason for that was I was having really bad fatigue especially in the afternoons so after eating my lunch every single time I just crashed and it was seriously so bad and and everybody everybody had the same experience you know it was I just started my first uh real kind of job nine to five type of job and you could just watch everybody you know jump off like flies after 2 p.m after their lunch and it's just kind of what everyone did and you know productivity slimes during the afternoon and that's that's how it goes but I kind of wanted to try something different I wanted I didn't want to feel this way for the rest of my life I thought it seems like a pretty mundane way of living if you can only be productive for a couple of hours a day um so yeah then I looked up how do I solve this issue to cover the low carb space kind of the keto space and and how it doesn't spike your insulin is high and it doesn't give you those huge mood swings up and down crashes and it gives you more consistent energy throughout the day kind of slowly drifting off into the night and I was like okay this is a solution so I gave it a try and you know it worked here it worked for a little bit but I just found that even having a small amount of carbs are still there and I don't know just kind of the broad range of foods that I could still eat I just found myself slipping down into into binge eating and into ending up just having a whole bunch of carbs at once you know I couldn't I couldn't limit myself to 30 grams of carbs I'd have a little bit and then just kind of the Five Guys will open I just kind of go crazy and binge on a bunch of bunch of carbs and you know you can't just there'll be sometimes when I was on keto where you know I wasn't super strict then I'd have a little bit of rice but you can't just have a little bit of rice you can't have you know 10 or 15 grand carbs worth of rice like you have to have a decent amount so I just found that I just kept falling into that so that kind of made me stop Keto I was trying to just do keto you know in the morning and and just around lunchtime so I wouldn't get that crash but then um so I was kind of doing that a little bit and was kind of working kind of nice to Beijing like crazy um and then my dad my dad started Carnival first and he started it because Jordan Peterson he saw Jordan Peterson and Michaela Peterson was on it I think a lot of people found it through them and yeah my dad wanted to lose weight hopped on the Carnival diet and I think in around three or four months he dropped just 12 kilos or something really really quickly um and he he was always raving about how he felt so amazing uh so that was probably what took me over the line how he was talking about and I was having crazy good energy mental Clarity is really good sleep was super deep he stopped his snoring and so I saw this and my dad I was like okay I have to kind of give it a shot so um yeah that was around three and a half months ago then I started Carnival diet and just kind of been continuing to go there and that's kind of how I found it and that's where I am today awesome hey guys just want to take a second to thank our sponsor at carnivore bar I don't promote many products because honestly all you need to be healthy is to just eat meat for those times that you're out hiking road tripping or stuck at work and you want nutritious snack that is just meat fat and salt if you want it the carnival bar is a great option so I like this product not because it's just pure meat but also because I want the carnivore Market to thrive as well and the more we support meat only products the more meat only products that will be available in the mainstream so if this sounds like something you'd like to get behind check it out using my discount code Anthony to get 10 off which also applies to subscriptions giving you 25 off total all right thanks guys and then Daniel what about you yeah so me and out of always good mates um we went we started going to the gym around age 16 and um I noticed I was following a lot of the typical bodybuilding advice you know have heaps of carbs have your whey protein shakes and um and my skin just started to really really flare up and I thought it was the way in the protein powder so I tried like vegan protein powder or PE protein all these different things and I just got really bad cystic acne I had literally volcanoes on my face I didn't even want to go to school because it was just talking like I had to have surgery to get the people to like like to take the Posse out another way like an iPad she was just it was terrible and then I didn't really know what the answer was the doctors are sort of like oh it's hormonal you're a teenager and I'm like well none of my mates have this and they're having protein powders and stuff so I'm just a bit confused and um the sort of solution wants to go on is a drug called Accutane and man I wish the doctors told me a bit more about it they said oh you can you can just get dry skin you can feel a bit depressed and then I'm like that didn't really tell me and I'm like my parents like it's the only thing and I'll 16 and like whatever I'll just try it because there's nothing worse in life than having bad skin at least I thought then um and I was on it and it just destroyed my health this drug it it just I got massive shin splints in my legs I couldn't place I couldn't walk for literally like the whole year just so much pain um I had to stop going to the gym because I tore both my shoulders that's as soon as I increased the dose in the drug it was just it was just terrible my mental health just went down and everything went bad and I sort of you know I didn't really know what was wrong with me and I got off the drug because my parents didn't really want to see me like that and then um you know in the later years of high school where I had trouble focusing and still was a bit depressed from the drugs and from the injuries because I saw my friends playing Sport and I couldn't play um there wasn't really a hope forward end so I got shocked on ADHD drugs antidepressants and all these things and they just they just didn't really work like they worked in the short term but it's just it's just not really a good answer and they never really suggested nutrition and I was just a bit I felt I've kind of adopted a bit of a victim's mindset because I'm like what is wrong with me why am I on all these drugs and while I got through my final year of school my mental health just deteriorated and then um and then like start of um I finished school and I made my degree like physio at uh uni blah blah blah and I and I um started University and I just could not do it I had debilitating chronic pain I gained about 30 kilograms I was ordering like four to three times pizzas a day even though I knew they were bad for me I just my mental health was so so so bad and I just entered a bit of a bad hole and I just didn't really know the answers because I'm I'm seeing all these doctors in the city going out to see these surgeons going out to see doing all this research and it's sort of like I'm stuck with it for life so I was a bit hopeless because I'm 18 years old 17 18 I just I just felt hopeless so I just sort of went in that tunnel playing video games wasting my life away and then I'm like look enough's enough forget all these pills figure out these doctors I'm going off it all and I'm searching on how to fix it myself because I I just this can't be the way to live and through digging very very very deep in Reddit and other places I found zero carb space and just being I was just searching out like oh how to fix NHD how to fix depression how to fix chronic pain and all these things and I found the zero carb space and I saw all this anecdotal evidence of just ridiculous anecdotal evidence saying my chronic pain is so much lower it's gone ADHD is under control depression is gone lost so much weight and so I was like screw it I don't care if I get a heart attack I'm gonna try it I don't care because everyone was saying you need a heart attack but I didn't care at that point because I wasn't even really living um and I tried it and it's been three months and it's changed my life man I've lost 25 kilos now I've haven't felt an ounce of depression I'm off I'm weaning off I'm off all meds but I'm waiting off um an antidepressant that doesn't even do anything anyways um and yeah now actually learning a bit about the science um actually understanding that you know you don't actually get heart attacks in the carnival diet and sort of understanding the science now has even convinced me that this is actually the way we should be living and this isn't just anecdotal it's actually hard facts and Science and just even things like I remember you were talking about I think um European European's role was to get rid of European's role is to like get rid of the finished omega-6 particles in your body or something like that it helps get rid of it from your body so it relates um to reduce pain and just sort of stuff like that it's just sort of convinced me to yeah stick it through and I'm so glad that's awesome man but I mean that's a great that's a great story and it's um I mean it sucks that you so young had such such a rough time but it's great that it brought you around to I think eating eating away we're supposed to be eating especially when you're younger and that's that's when you know it makes the most difference because that's when you guys are developing um so so you guys did you guys sort of get onto a carnivore diet sort of at the same time but separately or or did you guys talk to each other as well uh I think yeah so I I think Daniel started it a week before me my like our families are pretty close so I think my dad talked to Daniel about it yeah is that right then like you kind of used to talk to my dad and then yeah well I remember you're at my house and I was trying to lose weight and I was doing all these fast and stuff and you're like oh bro try the carnival guy and my dad's done it yeah oh yeah yeah and then yeah and then you started like a week after because I'm like oh my gosh you gotta try this but that that kind of that kind of researching I think at first kind of how we were looking for low carb options I think we kind of did that independently I don't really remember talking to Daniel much about it um in the early days but yeah yeah cool and then so you guys were three on three months now is that right yeah yeah and so what made you guys uh decide to start the carnivore Vitality uh platform yeah well we were just we just felt incredible uh it was just it was just felt like it changed our lives it changed my life but I think it changed Daniel's life even more like way more than mine um and then we kind of just saw that there's this huge need uh you know for this information out there and and there's so many lies I've been told and so deeply ingrained into us the artists feel like it has to be shared with the rest of the world and also um I think a lot of younger people wanted to kind of talk to younger people about I think in the carnivore space at the moment is mainly 40 to 50 year olds which is you know it's great but if we can you know rage more younger people about it I mean they'll be even better so yeah on ads so we actually started it on Ed's birthday um he came over and I think we cooked up some some steak as his cake or whatever um and then we're just like screw it let's just record a YouTube video with no editing let's just record it and you can go back on our Channel and find it and we just recorded it said our story sort of and just said you know we want to help you guys and just post it and everything Stan just kept them going I guess yeah like I mean that's just how you get started you just you just started and um yeah but that's good um well how and so on your show you're trying to are you specifically trying to reach like a younger audience or just talk about carnivore in general what's your main um you know what's your your purpose behind the channel um I think just being another voice as well just generally uh we haven't really specifically tried to reach a younger audience I mean we kind of having some respects like with with our type of content and just being young ourselves I think also just um can be helpful to reach younger people but yeah I think our mission would be to just be another voice in the carnival space hopefully create more engaging watchable content um that you know for someone with a reduced attention span will be able to you know watch a bit better yeah that's probably good yeah I remember I was talking to some um I think he was like a he was a vegan guy he's reasonable we were just sort of going back and forth talking about some things he was messaging me and he was asking me a whole bunch of just normal things that are very reasonable and normal to ask in this sort of uh you know discussion and I said look you know actually like the first video I did actually had I answered all of those questions like that's why I did that it's sort of a you know just a good starting point and that's what I sent in the link he's like all right yeah I'll check it out and then I get a message back from like 30 seconds later you're like whoa 44 minutes not gonna happen you know it was like this is actually a complex topic you know like yeah yeah all the car all the main arguments you know for and against carnivore and vegan diets and you know it's not it's not going to happen in seven minutes you know like actually it did happen in seven minutes because I did that in a um in a debate for the Australian College of nutritional environmental medicine uh in Australia and we had seven minutes and so I had well I had to I had to chunk down this whole talk into seven minutes and I was just like I don't know if you guys don't have like the micro machine man over here but in America there's like this commercial with like Micro Machines the guy who's like the like the goodness world world record holder for like speaking quickly he's like no no no he's just hauling ass and he was just talked so quickly as that's why I figured that's what I felt like I was like the micro machine man just like talking super high fat High Pace um just trying to get all this stuff out there and and just um and obviously couldn't go into any detail with it but yeah so I jumped it in seven minutes but you know that was my that 44 minute one was just me actually talking at a more normal pace and going to a bit of detail so it actually filled out quite a lot so that's how fast I was talking and but yeah but they wouldn't you know didn't even want to didn't even want to touch it he's like 40 minutes absolutely not you know I'll be dead by then there's no point and so uh yeah so it's good to get um shorter content out there so what are some of the videos you like that you like putting out are you doing so your own sort of content are you trying to put out um interviews or what do you like doing the most yeah so at first we sort of just got some basic carnival videos out there just you know get the ball rolling um and recently we're starting we want to talk more into the science behind it um it was a bit more anecdotal at first but recently we've been talking yeah a bit more about the science behind it and trying to do a few things like day in the life of eating as a 19 year old or a 10 year old and yeah we're definitely trying to um you know like sort of mix it up a bit what do you think of yeah yeah that says um I kind of agree with that uh yeah we're not obviously we haven't been to medical school or anything we have very kind of limited knowledge about biology not very limited but we definitely we've only been doing it for you know a few months um so yeah we're really pushing kind of learning um and pushing ourselves into creating content that's also you know understandable for other people as well but trying to talk still talk about some of those some of the science behind it and the evidence and facts um but yeah in the future I want to do interviews we want to do informational science stuff we want to do uh lots more day in the life kind of more applicable to everybody so how to do kind of around a budget or um doing Carnival in this in this country or whatever it is and um yeah just kind of a bit of everything yeah I reckon yeah nice and then so you guys are three months into it now at this point so what are some of the some of the benefits that you've seen now uh in your in your daily lives you know Ed you were talking about how this was affecting your athletic performance as well can you can you tell us about how you know how you're doing how you're feeling and uh what's going on there yeah yeah so the main benefit probably since uh starting the carnival diet has been energy levels I'd always been someone as I said before that kind of would eat a big meal and then really crashed pretty hard um but I found the carnivore diet that doesn't really happen uh you can have you can have a decently pretty satisfying big meal and then straight off the bat you can do something you can do exercise or you can you can go back to work you don't have to kind of I don't know I have a have two hours just laying on the couch watching TV you know trying to regain your energy back so you can actually uh tackle the day so I think one of the main benefits I've experienced um and then also as you're saying athletic performance that's definitely something that I've I've seen dramatically improve I mean it's very anecdotal and it's it's pretty weak evidence right but just my Sprints just especially my Sprint speed on the carnivore diet I noticed when I play a sport called oztag which is um kind of like it's like rugby but instead of tackling you tag you have tags on your shorts and stuff um but yeah even just playing that I've just noticed my Sprint speed has increased dramatically I was never one of the fastest people on the team and then since doing Carnival for a few months and a bit of training and not to mention that training doesn't seem as doesn't seem to impact me as much so I can kind of do a training session in the next day I can do another one it's not like I'm knocked out for you know a couple days or anything um and yeah I've just noticed my Sprint speed and just being able to have an advantage over my you know fellow competitors is just it's just it's been pretty crazy I I just it's never something I expected I didn't think of I was someone that you know had any Pace but it's just something that kind of would like my Sprint speed has increased decent amount um but yeah I definitely want to make more videos on that want to quantify it so I can actually prove that it is increasing my Sprint speed and even just holding on to muscle mass I haven't trained in the gym for like six months um due to injuries I had an injury before I started the carnivore diet it's kind of shoulder injury and um yeah I've been taking more action on it and it's been improving over the last few weeks and I've been actually getting back into training the last couple weeks and I've just noticed that the about my muscle and my body composition has been as not really worsened as much as it has previously if hadn't trained in six months usually if I hand trainers six months I just look like so trash but I think you know I've held on to a diesel I'm out of the muscle and now getting back into training I can see the weight going up I can see the muscle feeling in and yeah yeah that's definitely a benefit nice what are you down yeah for me there's so many but the main one is probably mood I've always had a bit of an emotional um I've always been a very emotional person which isn't really a trade I want as a man I don't really want to you know be dictated by my feelings I want to do things um and I just always noticed before that yeah my mood would have fluctuates so much something would happen I'd be like oh I feel sad or oh yeah just even things that life throughout you but on the Carnival diet I just my mood is just so stable it seems like whatever life throws at me it's just okay this happened let's analyze the situation and let's deal with it instead of just oh you know I'm sad or I can't do it or this and it's just really helped my mood so much I've stabilized a bit more than any antidepressant ever could um I think that's due to I guess ketosis um more stable energy as well and also inflammation I've had the hamstring tendonitis for maybe like a year now and I kept doing Rehab on it and it never got better and then I couldn't really walk in within two weeks of the carnival diet I was able to walk like five k steps and I couldn't even walk literally 500 steps and my boxes were like what the heck they had no idea um yeah and just rehabbing from a few surgeries I noticed that since I've been in the carnival diet I'm actually starting to improve my shoulder strength and stuff it without a flaring off um I know it's just that decreasing inflammation in the body um yeah it's just really it's really really good just also in the brain just everything decreasing information yeah well that's amazing and especially like with the depression things you know there are there are more and more studies coming out and um you know Joshua Palmer uh yeah yeah just studied yeah he just published um his own but I forget the title but he is uh you know he's doing tons and tons and tons of research and randomized controlled trials showing that uh ketogenic diet is is you know securing and reversing very very serious psychiatric disorders like major depression and even schizophrenia which is wild you know like what's called brain energy I think it's called brain energy is it called brain yeah yeah okay yeah and so it's uh is very very interesting and if you actually look in the literature you can see going back I don't know at least 10 years I was Finding studies for 2008 2009 showing that psychiatric issues were being linked to mitochondrial metabolic issues you know and they're showing like a you know direct link there and then when you get this disruption in the mitochondria you get problems uh with manifesting as schizophrenia you know in the genetically susceptible and that's one thing like there was a study I read years ago looked at people in ketosis and you have when when you're in ketosis you're you have four times the amount of mitochondria that other people would have and they're four times as effective you know so that you're getting a much much greater effect and so you're going to just be by being in ketosis you're going to have better stronger healthier mitochondria and so you won't you won't be as prone to these metabolic issues as well which is which is amazing and it's awesome to see that in real life so um so how do you how do you guys uh deal with like uh you know people around you so obviously you add your dads into this you know what about the rest of your families like you know Daniel's other people looking at you like you're crazy what about like it I mean how do you navigate school and friends and social situations yeah so I'm very blessed that my dad is you know on the carnivore diet and my family also mainly is you know go on a lot animal based the rest of my family isn't fully carnivore but they definitely eat a lot more you know meat eggs more animal-based foods which means that uh in our household we have a lot of meat you know available which is just something up it's you know so grateful for um in terms of friends yeah people people at first you think you're pretty crazy um yeah uh you know you bring a steak a steak for your lunch at University or something or you bring or you at work you get the sandwich presser right and you just slap in like some Thin steak or like slap in just some sausages and then people were just like so confused and just like what are you doing is that all you're having what else are you gonna have with it yeah I know I'm just gonna have meat by itself um you know awkward um I'm not walking around preaching everyone out in my carnivore and how what you're doing is wrong whatever um but slapping the celery out of their hands I wish I could but not I I try to keep it pretty low-key um but yeah like people people do think you kind of be crazy but you know you kind of come back with with arguments about well this is how we used to this is how we used to eat um you know these are the benefits I've experienced I don't think these are negative benefits whatsoever uh you know my energy is has improved my sleep has improved dramatically inflammation has decreased you know you say that to people and they can't really come back with too much else because like all that can really come out with is oh you cholesterol too high and you're going to get heart disease and you can just kind of show no that's not what the recent literature chart is you know showing and that was fabricated um so I think yeah at first it can be a little bit a bit weird and people might think you're crazy but you know over time people get used to it they kind of respect it and now we have some of our friends that are you know yeah testing the orders with it so yeah yeah yeah with me um because my parents were spending all this money on um appointments and drugs and stuff um they sort of just witnessed this sort of transformation I went from this like a fat mess to now actually getting back to life and just learning I'm just I just can't keep this information in I have to tell someone so if my parents are home have a dinner I'm shouldn't be telling them you know oscillates anti-nutrients in the vegetables and you know all the studies are actually fraudulent and all this stuff I'm just I just spit it out of my parents and now my mom's Carnival my dad's like keto or animal based and my brother doesn't really care but um and I've just noticed yeah even with black my psychiatrist um I had an appointment with him the other day and I said that everything's healed I don't have depression anymore don't have all these things and it's just like what about your cholesterol I'm like what and even within social um situations I try not to bring it up but if there's if there's if there's some sort of maid or someone asked what I had for lunch today I'm just gonna be like me and then they'll be like oh what about vegetables and I'm like what about vegetables and they're like oh where are you getting your vitamins and the vegetable uh the benefits you get from vegetables and I'm like what benefits and they're just they're just blank yeah and they bring out vitamins like fiber or vitamin C and I just absolutely obliterate that argument and it's just it's just people are so brainwashed they don't even know what they believe they don't even know yeah they don't know why they're doing me yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah they just yeah well that's it you know they just they just sort of regurgitate all this stuff oh but you have to you know and that's and that's a good question why you know what and uh yeah you know it's just like oh but you have to okay but why you know and you know if they don't know the reason you know the answer to that you know it's you know they should stop and think and be like oh you know what am I doing I don't even know why I'm doing this I'm just I just I know that it's really important but I don't know why it's really important and then you start seeing like okay well what was the background for that what was the basis for that and you find out there was like actually nothing substantial you know in it and um yeah and like you know whenever someone's asking me about vegetables it's like you know what about vegetables you know why aren't you eat any salad when you get this I'm just always like it's super bad for you and like white waters super bad for you and uh I'm trying to kill you say that yeah what did you have and um and uh you go straight into like for like a big air sort of things it's like yeah no plants are trying to kill I mean you sound like a nutcase right yeah okay you know like plants are out to get you like oh they're hiding you know you've seen they're coming in people's houses and things hiding in the corners you know just waiting to get you you know but um you know I think that it's uh it's good to see you guys you know more and more people doing this like you said you know just getting more voices out there because you know you're just you're just telling your story and it's anecdotal okay does that mean it's not happening you know does that mean your health isn't improving does that mean your skin hasn't cleared up does that mean that you're not depressed anymore you know they or that you're still depressed you know it's it's um it's important you know it is important and people's real life experiences are very important because you can say you know that something's healthy all you want but you know if people are doing it in practice and they aren't doing well then it doesn't matter and you know so you know if you're you know saying oh veganism and this that the other and some people can can have a benefit in you know in comparison to a standard diet but a lot of people don't you know a lot of people gain a lot of weight a lot of people lose their health because they're eating a bunch of carbs and crap and they're not getting you know appropriate nutrition so actually a lot of people Health suffers and they gain weight you know doing what they're told is really healthy and oh I just not working out enough that was nothing to do with it you know that was always what it is you have to you know eat less move more couldn't be further from the truth you know you need to eat more of what you're supposed to eat and then move as well however however you want really hmm so yeah and um so when you're so you guys are in college now in University yeah I am yeah I'm going next year okay so it's I I guess when you're in you know University you probably you know it's a little less of an issue you're going out you can bring your own food or whatever but you're not like in like a confined sort of high school sort of environment where everyone's like what the hell are you eating yeah um do you find it weird at high school Daniel well we're both you know so I um yeah so we both um finished high school last week oh okay all right I was using either deferred my uni course to next year because yeah gotcha okay yeah right so it's even easier for you you just yeah yeah situations if I go out then yeah they would think I'd be crazy but then once you actually start to explain it they're like hang on a sec that's sort of that sort of sounds right like you know what I mean yeah is it about open people or the people who are just completely um closed-minded it is either like open or closed-minded yeah yeah and then have you had to have you had to be do any sort of other like sort of like like family get-togethers I guess you know with holidays coming up it might be might be some interesting discussions uh around the the dinner table but have you guys had any any interesting interactions there and how did you deal with them you look very uncomfortable Dan I had one recently yeah so I'm I'm from an Italian background and we have a lot of um pasta and a lot of you know heavy Foods carbs and all that stuff and then slapping off the table and every year I'd always eat it and I'd always be the guy who eats like three servings of it and this year everyone else was there but they pay to pass then I'm just sitting there with nothing with nothing on my plate waiting for like the meat the second um course and everyone's like oh why aren't you eating this and I'm just like oh you know I'm I'm not that hungry I didn't really feel like it because I didn't want to bring it off yeah and then and then somehow my mom brought it off or something and everyone's like oh what you don't eat vegetables and all these things and then we just got in this massive sort of it was like a 1v5 it was it was like a massive sort of argument and I'm I'm like I'm pretty sure I want to like pretty yeah they're talking about like oh you need a balanced diet the Mediterranean diet is the best diet you need to have balance you know have your legumes all the colors they're just like you need this I'm like yeah why though you get all the vitamins in steak and it's just yeah it was pretty funny what about you at any yeah my family kind of lives out of town haven't seen them for probably a few months so I actually haven't done a thing but I mean this Christmas I'm excited to see how this Christmas goes anyway I'll normally just go for the meat like pretty hard anyway that's what I just go for most so hopefully they provide enough and yeah I'm excited to see how it goes see y'all I don't know I'll probably make a video on how I went as well because there'll be a lot of carnival videos about how their Christmas was and yeah hopefully we can convert some of our I think my my my step Grandpa actually is is um yeah because he has some problems but yeah uh yeah um for me and my family like you know everyone everyone just sort of knows you know because I started doing this I was very interested in it and I was you know vocal about it and so my family would just mostly just asked me about it you know I'm like what do you think but the other thing is is that you know I you know they knew my background 20 years ago and I just stopped eating plants all together because of my cancer biology class and you know so you know I lived with my brother at the time and I wouldn't eat anything that wasn't me um and so he was kind of used to it but then when you're like formally doing this I'm doing this then the question started coming out and be like um but before when I just you know I just didn't eat plants no no one died and I never had never had a single question uh for me but but that was the same thing um when we go to dinners I would there's always going to be meat there my family was always meeting Centric but I had all everything else as well and I would always just go for the meat so then that I would just just eat the meat during those family get-togethers um as far as as far as interesting encounters no the you know my [Music] um you know family members and in-laws and things like that they're like like vegan or like really pushed that and like I'm really like um sort of been been like that that around that side of the family in a while so it's like this the the major Clash hasn't happened yet you know but you'll get some things you know like well the other day I was in the operating theater and there was a there was a nurse who apparently was vegan and like the anesthesiologist like you know uh I knew he's just like oh hey JP see here she's a vegan you know and it starts like cracking up laughing you know I just think they were just gonna like you know go to each other's throats or something and uh just start laughing like everyone knows it except this this nurse she doesn't doesn't know what's going on and so he's sort of laughing and they're like oh and she's like oh what's happening did you like you know not like vegans or something like that you like bad things I was like actually no I don't at all and then I told her I was just like well I actually I only eat meat like I don't eat any vegetables and we actually got a lot of fine but it was just that that sort of you know you would anticipate like oh you know you're just gonna fight I don't really you know I don't I don't fight with with people that don't uh you know deserve to be fought with um most of the time you know people that are vegan like these are these are people that have the exact same you know drive and motivation for eating that I do you're trying to do the right thing you're trying to eat healthy and you know even having broader views on on the health of the the world and animals at large like you know I I share all of those ideals I just came to a different different conclusion than they did you know the answer for me was was to eat meat and you know large ruminant meat you're killing you know I I'm I'm gonna eat like for a big full-grown cow I'll probably need one of those every two years you know whereas you're eating plant-based crops you have to destroy a whole environment just to grow that crop you have to kill all the animals trying to eat your crops you kill 25 times the amount of of sentient animals to get you know one pound of protein so for me it actually is is better and is also you know serves the you know the ecological purpose as well as being just the best thing that we can eat and I think that without all those other things you know it would still be worth it just because you know this is biologically how we're supposed to eat but if you think about it we're eating in our natural way and that way should encourage you know nature in general right you know when we step outside of our nature we start doing things outside of nature that's you you inherently have to damage nature and that's what we're doing with all these crops and things like that and so I think that you know just going back to Nature being as close to that as you can is going to help the environment as well so um yeah and it was uh I was going to say too about the balanced diet thing I hate that I hate it it drives me nuts you know it's just like balance balanced diet balance with what balance me like this is you know this side is offset with that side so you want you want you know good things offset balance with bad things or you want to want food balance with poison that's what you want you want to balance of you know like or what are you talking about what they mean and they don't even realize they mean this is that you want to balance of nutrients coming in so that you get enough nutrition so that you're not nutrient deficient that's where that came from because people used to be nutrient deficient still are nutrient deficient they're just over have hyper uh you know you have more calories than they need and less nutrients but that's where that's what that's what that really means is it's a balance of nutrients so that you're getting enough nutrients and you're not deficient in anything well the most balanced thing you can eat is a steak you know a fatty steak you know and so that's that's really what that means they don't realize that they think you have to eat a thousand different things to get all the nutrients oh I mean what what what what nutrient is a is green you know what I mean light or purple I think that's what they're saying they're actually saying this you need to eat you need to eat the rainbow because all the different colors are different nutrients that you need oh I'm sorry I didn't know I needed colors you know I wouldn't live on like you know a Lucky Charms Factory you know like this is this is this is juvenile you know so you know that's what it means though is it's a balance of nutrients and uh and then and then the other ones everything in moderation you know that one's the best one too because then you you asked me was like oh okay so it's just everything in moderation yeah okay so smoking moderation drinking moderation meth and moderation child abuse and moderation genocide in moderation you know all these things in moderation anything in moderation is good you know I mean it's stupid and it's it's you can you can display that you take things out to their logical conclusion you know because like like in genocide in moderation you know Holocaust and moderation concentration camps in moderation you know so you know not not quite North Korea level but maybe get Cuba level you know concentration camps you know concentration camps in moderation you know that that's fine then and you know so I think that's that's sort of ridiculous but um yeah so I don't know if you guys had similar uh frustrating conversations like that oh yeah yeah make sure you have enough you know meat in moderation you don't have too much meat you know this the thing with um the sugar keeping sugar in moderation that's just impossible for our bodies like just yes I swear it's kind of deeply coded into us that it's pretty hard to have sugar in moderation it's extremely addictive it's like you said before math in moderation I mean good luck with that you know so yeah and a lot of people say oh well I tell a lot of people I know so a lot of people say oh you're only doing this for a few months right and then in you know six months time you add back the vegetables and I'm like no I'm doing this for life and the whole balancing it's like yeah I agree it's even in life it's like oh you know balance you know a bit of TV bit of video games it's like no why don't you just do only the good stuff it sort of applies the same principle yeah and you're right you know I mean it's very hard to keep anything addictive in moderation you know that's um that's inherently hard to do that's you know why uh we call it addictive you know we you can't stop doing it and so yeah it's very difficult and and that's why you know when people say that you can have some of these things or some sugar or some candy or some oh that's okay it's just a little bit that doesn't really work for most people and and it doesn't generally work for that long and and so you have a little bit a little bit turns into a lot very quickly and then you start making other concessions and and uh and and uh getting soft on your other rules and I think that if you you know sort of make an exception once you're going to make it a thousand times if you you know you will always be able to come up with reasons you know not to do something uh in that way and and I think that it's just better just to stick to it and and like you say you know not think of it as like a diet I'm just doing this short term to you know get this fit into some jeans or something like that but it's just a way of life this is just what I do it makes it so much easier that way if you're just like yeah this is what I do this is how I eat that's my life that's it it's over you don't have to think about it you don't have to go like oh well but when am I gonna and what do I do there's no question it's just like this is what I eat that's what I do and it's pretty easy yeah 100 and like sort of adopting that mindset of just sort of all this other stuff it's just not food like it's not food like that's sort of adopt that mindset so if you want to have a bit of stuff maybe sausages or something and I think me and Ed have really found that um you know learning about the lies and nutrition and um actually finding the truth it's it's really made us open our eyes to a lot of the other lies and a lot of other things in society that we're told to do um it's really uh open our eyes to that and made us question things like even like sunscreen or just so many things you should read Thomas Sowell that will really open your eyes promise hummus Soul s-o-w-e-l-l like he writes so well because he does he's a brilliant Road and um yeah and he uh yeah he's got a ton of things and like and there's no one gets down to the Bedrock of an issue like him really shows you like this is what's actually going on these are this is just the hard facts of what's happening and you just look at that and you go wow okay that's what that is and you just you know and then you know where to go from there and then you understand why these things work the way they do or don't work the way uh that they're put forward so yeah so he's he's a great one to read if you really want to know if you really want to see a lot of that just in the grander scheme of things throughout the world that'll that'll be a good one to look at um all right guys so uh just before we wrap up can you guys think of any like you know goodbye because you guys have just gone into this obviously had very good success but there's always going to be pitfalls and things like that that are difficult for people to to come overcome before they get into like a steady state that you're in now where you're just feeling good and you're and you're going with it what are some advice that you can give to people that are first starting out uh with carnivore on how to sort of be successful at it and or maybe even just some things that you came across that sort of tripped you up that you then had to figure out a solution for yeah I'm happy to go first so at the start with carnivoid you know for different people it's um they can have different adjustment periods I think for me because I was on keto before it wasn't the worst adjustment period and as soon as I started Carnival I think a lot of the benefits were there straight away um I do find that there is a euphoric state that happens straight after you start carnivore um I think that this doesn't it isn't this crazy Euphoria and crazy high energy forever I think it does slightly taper off to a more normal level it definitely is way better than it was before but I do find that there was there was this Spike of Euphoria for a short period however it does come down a tiny bit um but obviously still it's it's far superior to the way I was living before and just for my health in general which is so important so if if you do notice that yeah my advice would just be keep going um you know you yeah you just gotta keep pushing through um and you know who knows it could go back up into that euphoric State um yeah just stay consistent and mess around with it as well you know if you're having a problem with constipation you might end up your fats or something experiment with different you know having salt or no salt on your meals dairy or no Dairy just kind of keep playing around with it and make sure and making it best the best way for you I reckon yeah yeah um I'd also say that one of the big things that made us stick to it and especially yeah well for me at least was to make sure you're educating yourself when you're learning when you're starting the carnival diet because for the first few um weeks I was getting you know pretty bad diarrhea and constipation um and you know feeling really fatigued but when I go online I'm you know educating myself and learning that everyone else is getting the same experience because if you didn't educate yourself you'd probably quit it because you'd be like oh this doesn't work um yeah so I think educating is really important like educating yourself for learning about it watching people like yourself chafee um on Spotify and stuff that was really helpful and I think at the end of the day you know you've got to have that reason behind why you're doing it you know if it's for your kids you want to be healthier if it's for your health it's for your future you're going to have that wire and that reason behind it and you know we can give you all the tips and tricks but I just think you got to stick it through and at the end of the day you know that better days are coming and just gonna stick it through yeah yeah I think I think those are the most really good points is just you need to persevere just to sort of keep going a lot of these things sort of iron out in the in the uh with time and then just knowing exactly why you're doing this what are your motivations what's what's your reason why you're doing it and educating yourself and understanding the ins and outs of it that's you know I have a um like a playlist on my YouTube channel it's called Uh carnivore starter kit and I just think that that sort of sort of hits a lot of those those key points and and that's exactly why I put that together was because I think that that's really important you know when you're when you're trying to justify this to yourself and certainly to other people it really helps if you if you know the facts behind all the arguments because they're they're all the same arguments you know maybe they come at a slightly different angle but they all boil down to the same thing it means bad for you it's actually a fat cause is uh heart you know raising cholesterol which causes heart disease um you need all the nutrients from from Plants your you'll you need fiber um you know all these things they're very very very similar arguments and they just come in sort of different forms and so if you know the background to those things and you understand the the you know the data that's come out and just just the the historical record on how these things have been fabricated and and people have been misled you know I mean these are simple things like you know the Framingham I was taught the Framingham study in medical school okay so in 2009 this was done decades and decades ago and I was taught that the Framingham study showed that increased levels of cholesterol led to was correlated with increased levels of heart disease that's that's actually not what the Framingham studies show the Framingham study showed the opposite literally the opposite that the more cholesterol you have the less heart disease you had and vice versa and it was just misrepresented by the American Heart Association two years later I don't know how you know that that's they're getting away with that but they did that and and that's what was perpetuated and taught I'm putting medical Medical School textbooks crazy and and people don't know that and so you just you just look at that and you just let people know these things and you know the truth becomes very very apparent very quickly so yeah I think those are both both good pieces of advice um all right guys well I really appreciate your time it's been uh it's good to have you on and good chatting with you guys again uh you guys have me on your your podcast that was a lot of fun so I'm glad that you guys were able to come on here so um do you guys have any any reporting words and uh and and just let everyone know where they can find you and follow you yeah um so you can find us at carnival Vitality on Instagram and YouTube um yeah we'll upload at least every we upload like every second day of try we try to upload every day maybe like five times a week um yeah so you can find us on there okay great awesome and you guys have enjoy the carnivore Vitality is the main thing on Instagram and YouTube and then okay yeah Instagram YouTube awesome well cool we'll put the links to that in uh in the show description and people can follow you there and hopefully check out check out your stuff and uh you know wish you uh good luck and success in that platform all right thanks guys thanks for appreciate it for coming on thank you thanks so much for having us hey guys thank you very much for taking the time out to listen to what I had to say if you like it then please like And subscribe to my YouTube channel and podcasts and if you're on YouTube then please hit that little bell and subscribe and that'll let you know anytime I have a new video out which should be every week if not more and if you could share this with your friends that would help me get the word out and let me know that you like what I'm doing thanks again guys foreign