Overseas Travel on Carnivore, Thomas Sowell, and Personal Responsibility

hello and welcome to the how to carnivore podcast i'm your host simon lewis and you're tuning in to the plant-free md series with dr anthony chafee dr chafee is a surgeon nutritional researcher and former pro-rugby player he's been strict carnivore for three years and an on and off carnival for more than 20. dr chafee looks and feels like a real life superhero if losing fat building muscle finding focus and getting the most out of life is important to you you're going to love the plant free md series hey everyone back with another episode of the how to carnivore podcast and youtube series and we're with anthony chafee the plant free md again who is fresh off the plane from the philippines anthony welcome home hey thanks man how are you yeah very good thank you um so fittingly we're going to talk about travel in this episode uh and i've got some questions for you uh about you know street carnival traveling to asia i know there's a lot of meat there but there's also a lot of other noodles rice vegetables seed oils blah blah blah so first question mate what did you eat on the plane from perth to the philippines uh yeah well in this in this case i i didn't i didn't eat anything really um you know so sometimes when they they'll obviously serve things that are mixed and you can request a vegetarian diet um the only thing that's going to have meat is going to have a lot of other things with it sauces and what have you uh that i don't really want um so you know i was i was lucky enough on this one you know that that they didn't even serve anything anyway you could buy sandwiches which i wasn't interested in uh but there wasn't really any meals to navigate but you know uh normally when i travel if we're even like a sandwich or breakfast roll or whatever there'll be some meat in it i'll just pick that out and maybe eat the pad of butter along with it and that otherwise you don't need anything um because it's you know it's it's quite easy to not eat uh for you know a period of time even an extended period of time when you're on carnivore because you're not you're not getting all these panic signals that you have to eat you have to eat you have to eat my body sees its leptin you know it knows that i'm not going to starve to death it knows that i'm not in any trouble and so it just says you know can't eat fine no problem relax yeah exactly and then you know once i get to uh so you know you know the next airport then that's fine i can get something there you know when i was traveling from the u.s to australia when i first moved here you know i didn't i left later in the evening i didn't really have a big meal that day and then you know i flew down to san francisco i got there overnight and so none of the restaurants were open and so i couldn't get like you know mcdonald's patties or anything like that and then it was like 14 and a half hours from san francisco to sydney and so there was it was a solid 36 hours that i didn't eat and just had like a you know a piece of uh ham and then a bit of butter i had each sort of meal and wasn't but you know whatever it didn't really matter and i was just drinking water and then when i got to sydney i just sort of looked around so i was there and i got like i went to a kabab shop and got you know they have like the meat box with uh with fries and chips i just said can you just get rid of the fries and chips and just and just fill it up with me the guy was so excited he's like you just want me and i was just like yeah yeah just just meet up he's like yeah yeah you know and um he's like you want you want chicken or lamb i was like can i get both you're like yeah you can get both your best friend yeah he was just like he just thought it was the coolest thing and so i just had that that was my first meal in australia was a big box of meat and and so that that's totally fine so i didn't eat uh anything on the plane uh going up to philippines this time and i quite often don't on planes yeah i mean eating that aeroplane food normally leaves you feeling pretty even if you sort of like try and eat healthy or mainly meat because you're just sitting there right and you're in that kind of like stagnant air it's i think it makes i think it makes sense for that to be like a semi-fasting time yeah and it's uh and that's and that's the great thing too you know that i find with my work as well is that you know i don't i don't need to eat you know at set points during the day i don't have to eat three four times a day i don't i don't get into trouble if i don't even need that whole day or night if i'm stuck working or traveling uh you know i want to you know steak sounds good but i don't need to which is a very important distinction yeah serious freedom um and then when you got to the philippines what what sort of carnival delights are there are there in the philippines yeah well you know basically everywhere you go there's going to be some sort of meat option i mean i even even know people and work with people over in india which is you know very big uh vegetarian vegetarian uh sort of culture but they're ovolacto vegetarians they generally do drink milk or cheeses ghee and uh and eat eggs and but then quite a lot of people eat meat even even the hindus so um you know there are going to be options available and it's just like in any western country when you go to a restaurant you just need to ask not to put on sauces not to have the onions and the garlic and all the other seasonings put in with it and you just say can i just get the meat part of this so that's mostly what i did they have uh you know they sort of different cultural tastes so they they eat a lot of pork there uh which i like you know tastes good and so that that was a lot of it they have lechon which is like a whole roast pig yeah and the skins like the whole thing's crisped up and uh and it's just it's just perfect it's so nice and uh and then they you know have goat as well which is another one beef is available but it's not as readily available as it would be like in western countries so yeah yeah yeah i imagine it wouldn't be the same quality of beef as we have here well actually it's a lot of it's what they import from australia all right so yeah so a lot of yeah they'll get australian beef and new zealand lamb and so uh they'll they'll get that up there and then and then the local meats would be like pig and goat chicken you know yeah do you do you get around like the the mcdonald's patties when you're at an airport or um sometimes there's boiled eggs at airports as well yeah quite often yeah that that's you that's quite often my go-to is the mcdonald's you know quarter pounder or angus beef patties because you can just order a stack of those and you're just kidding you're just getting meat and you know something that not everyone knows you know a lot of the fast food places are vilified and you know some for you know well-deserved reasons but when when a lot of the you know plant-based vegan proponents say that oh it's actually really poor quality meat it's really horrible you know like kentucky fried chicken they call it kfc now because they can't legally call it kentucky fried chicken because they're not elite they're not actually chickens they have their genetically freaks and they have like eight different legs and 13 wings such an exaggeration yeah well it's just a flat out lie is what it is and um you know you know kfc doesn't make their own chickens you know they buy them from people who produce chickens yeah you know they buy them from slaughterhouses and and farmers and you know in massive massive quantities and in fact i've spoken to people who work in this industry and it's kentucky very chicken you actually get the highest quality chicken because they are the biggest buyers of chicken they get they buy the most chicken at any given time and so they get they get the lions share they get the first choice and so they get the top quality chickens and that's what they get so it's actually very very high quality it's just you know dunking it you know a bunch of batter and then deep frying it in seed oil that's where that's going that's where the issue is yeah yeah the chicken itself is actually great um but you know the mcdonald's they say there's all these sort of problems but they actually don't actually support that with any any real evidence and the quality of meat and the treatment of these animals is actually quite good and so when i'm traveling that's something that i consider because you know sometimes you go to different countries and maybe the the way they treat animals is pretty piss poor and uh or even quite abhorrent and so you know if you don't have you know in the west we have a lot of laws that protect animals and rightly so you know you have you have certain conditions you have to keep them and care for them and then when you when you process them there are certain things that you have to do to make that as humane as possible you know there's no nice way to kill something but you know the ways that we have in the western slaughterhouses with pneumatic hammer or electrocution are as close to instant as we have ever come and it is bang fast and so there's no nice way to do it but you know if it's going to be done that's at least something that we can do is make it as clean and humane as possible which is what we do not all countries have that and so you do have to be cognizant of that one thing i like about mcdonald's and i've spoken to ranchers and farmers uh in ireland when i was living there who worked for mcdonald's and they were saying that mcdonald's is extremely exacting they don't they don't just randomly source oh we'll get me from this guy and flower from that guy and whatever from this guy they hire farmers and ranchers to grow and raise the the livestock and the uh and the crops that they want and raise them exactly the way they want grow them exactly the way they want in the exact same conditions and exact same way and they come and they check and make sure that this stuff is being done properly and so that they can get a consistent product so that a big mac in naples tastes exactly as the big mac in san francisco as in sydney as in moscow as in the philippines and that's because they are very very careful about how they source these things and so what does that mean that means that at least those cows are being you know cared for and treated in in a similar fashion regard that we would in the west and then yes if we have the same sort of ethical standards as well like it might not be the best but at least it's not at least it's not the worst and it's um it's probably as you're saying like in some of these third world countries it's it's a step up treating them the mcdonald's ways is most likely to step up from you know other ways that they've been raised and slaughtered well it could be yeah and you know and a lot of in a lot of ways you know i've seen people uh [Music] you know process these animals in in extremely humane ways you know generally it's you know by cutting their throat and that's that's halal that's kosher that's the you know traditionally that was saying hey you know this animal is giving us life so that you can live your family can live treat this with respect treat this with care and and give it a clean clean uh merciful death um and that's that's often what what they do and so a lot of people sometimes they will they will buy a goat and they will slaughter the goat themselves and and prepare it the way they want it to be prepared and uh so it's it's you know so you know exactly what happened with that with that animal and or with a pig and um but uh yeah but if you you don't sort of have access to that and you're worried about it you know mcdonald's is a great um you know it is a great option yeah you at least have some sort of sense that they're they're treating these animals well and it's actually it's actually quite high quality yeah it tastes pretty good too you can get through you can get through a stack of like eight burger patties and um yeah you don't feel as as you do after like a big mac and chips but no definitely not though yeah and so yeah so a lot of that was that and you know we we cooked you know quite often ourselves and you know we were with uh i was visiting one of my my best friends growing up and um you know he's from america but his mom's uh filipino so he um he goes over there to visit them because his parents retired in the philippines and so he was going over there and i met him up for that trip and so we're hanging out with his parents who were just absolutely you know lovely people and i haven't seen them in like 15 years and so it was really nice to see them and i met a lot of his extended family uncles and aunts cousins as well and so a lot of times we were you know being doing big group cooking events and you know the difference being that you know some of the dishes they just left off the seasons just had like salt and so you know i was able to uh you know just just eat those things so a lot of that was was that and then when we went to restaurants just ask for them to not put on stuff you know every now and then you're going to get a bit of sauce on something or a bit of seasonings in there and you know i don't you know if it's if it's not all that much and it's not happening that often you know i'll be you know fine i'll just be like okay whatever you know it's not it's not ideal it's not gonna you know feel a bit you know off for for the rest of the day or you know maybe just you know a couple hours but it's not the end of the world for me some people it will be a much bigger deal it can be a trigger yeah it can be a trigger for something else but it can also like if they're healing from autoimmune issues they could just be much more affected by that you know even like my hands my hand my the joints and knuckles in my in my right hand much more stiff and just a little painful uh you know now and that's because i had some of this stuff that wasn't ideal and i've got a bit of bit of aches and soreness that'll go away in a couple days you know and when you're traveling you know maybe you don't have uh you know as many options as you would at home and so you know i don't get overly anal about it yeah but you know i do i do try my best and so you know there's a lot of things that's had a little bit of something in it this is like okay whatever you know just sort of got off as much sauce as possible but maybe they had a marinade before they cooked it and they just didn't add extra sauce on it afterwards and i just said okay just i'll have it without the sauce um and so that's fine sometimes you have to do that when you're traveling but by and large i was still able to get you know pretty much everything the way i wanted it which is great i mean clearly the filipinos prioritize meat you know you said they're really into their pork and and their chicken as well so you know that's there's often when you go to these you go to other cultures you realize that their most prized food is meat and animal products and it's it's like a nice reminder that those foods are you know where it's at yeah and sugar for the filter really oh my god yeah like they add sugar or like coconut everything they add sugar to everything i asked i asked for some butter i went to a wet market which is just you have a whole bunch of seafood uh there it's all fresh cod or even you know some of the stuff that is in tanks uh you know like you know lobsters crayfish or what have you and you know and that's great you just sort of pick and choose what you want and then they take that next door to a restaurant and the restaurant just go and you point on the menu how you want them to prepare it pretty cool yeah it is pretty cool and so you know i just had them you know sort of grill up most of it um i'm sort of fried up and i just said yeah i don't want any seasonings i just want butter on the side um they brought this thing it was like a toxic orange and i don't know what the hell it was had a weird ass smell and they were just they were just like oh yeah i know it's just like uh butter with some garlic i'm like garlic's not orange and it doesn't glow and so it sort of like tried it it was very very sweet and like like like syrupy sweet i didn't know what the hell it was and so it sort of tried i'm like that's not you know just butter and garlic yeah certainly and i was i was talking my friend about it he was like yeah you know they add that sugar to everything and and quite often when they're making like a sauce they will take like seven up and just like simmer it down and they just add a bunch of seven up to it and just like or even just like the syrup uh seven up syrup wow and just sort of like boil that in uh just to just add to it and it was it was not good that's for sure and um so i just i just you know uh foregoed that um but yeah everything's covered in sugar they eat so much sugar there and you know the the diabetes and and uh heart disease blood pressure issues that you would expect from that are exactly what you find yeah they're all there and you know weight issues and health issues abound in in the philippines which is not where you want them to to uh be prevalent because you know the health care system is very difficult there and um and uh it's hard to navigate it's it's um there are some [Music] places where you can get sort of like they're like free clinics all the other ones you have to pay in advance and an advantage so you need to if you're sick you turn up there with some cash yeah and you have to buy your medicines you have to buy your uh you know the different equipment that they'll use like you know if you want if you want to get injections or something like that you better bring some damn needles or else or else a they won't give it to you or b they'll reuse needles from someone else they will not give you a fresh needle you have to you have to buy and provide your your own equipment um like surgical equipment you know anything that's uh you know disposable or you know implantable like you have to bring that you know they won't they won't just keep that in stock like you have to bring it far out yeah and so you know if you can't pay for this stuff you're not getting you're not getting health care there are some pre-clinics where you can you can go but most of the time you have to pay for it and because of that there's there's also some pretty dodgy practices as well where you'll see you know doctors saying oh yeah you know look you have some problems with your knee i'm getting mri and like oh yeah because of this mri yet we really need to scope your knee and you know we have to put a camera in and we have to put this tool in we'll have to you know clean this up and clean this cartilage or it can get really bad just going to make sure that that you know that that gets cleaned up now um and uh before this gets gets any worse and you know i was asked while i was there they're like hey you know you're a doctor can you take a look at this stuff and i'm not an orthopedic surgeon but i can read the damn mri and um and at least read the results and it said nothing about you know meniscus tear or cartilage tear or anything that would actually require surgery certainly not that surgery and so basically they were just going to make this person it's like an upsell it's like it's like an upsell it's like oh yeah yeah get more out of you or just make up some sort of symptom exactly and you know um so they just uh you know so you know they're going to subject someone to an unnecessary surgery just so they can you know get you know 3 000 american out of them which is a fortune over there and uh and it's pretty nasty when you do that to people that are quite impoverished because the philippines is extremely impoverished in some areas some of the people there are extremely impoverished and we were there with my friend and his 14 year old son and you know we were explaining to him you know you look around all these people living there was there was a disparity we talked about this this wealth gap and disparities like that's actually where these things exist or in countries uh that have the level of corruption and lack of free markets where the bottom guy can actually make something and become uh very successful and wealthy um there are certain places that you are born into if you were born into a certain family in these areas that's where you're going to be and it's going to be very very very difficult to drag your way out of that manny pacquiao one of the few you know yeah and um and that body yeah well he did and he looked at that and said hey you know i can earn money by fighting i can help my family like yeah it would do it because he was destitute his family were destitute and they had been destitute generationally and so he said fine yeah i'm gonna go i'm gonna go fight you know at 14 years old he pretended to be 18. he went in you know beat some dude's ass and and uh you know got some money and his family were able to uh you know help help help provide for his family a bit and that just went on now obviously he's very very successful and he's actually running for president yeah yeah yeah what what were people talking about pacquiao over there were they like sort of with their signs and stuff like that um i didn't see a bunch for like president or anything like that but everyone talks about like the guy's a national hero absolutely i absolutely yo they just absolutely love him you know and you know someone would come up from from very humble beginnings and and be so successful that really gives a lot of inspiration to people um and so you can uh it's understandably going to be a very popular figure in the philippines and um and and it would and because like you would see a house there'd be a very normal or even very basic house in australia or america you know like two three bedrooms something that may be a second story and all around it and next to it are very very dilapidated homes um you know the actual shacks that are built out of you know corrugated steel and just slap together with pieces of wood or pieces of steel that they've just fashioned together and and this is where people live and this is where entire families live and you look around that's not the exception that's that's the majority of these people are living in very very humble humble means and you know we were talking to my friend's son and it was just like you look around this is actually you know most people on earth you know live closer to this yeah than they do in america uh or australia we you know and it's there there are a lot of reasons for that and see the reality of that and understand that in the west there are certain things that we do that actually that actually benefit uh you know the everybody's life much much better and you know some of these these people that were living in these you know gorgeous houses as compared to everyone else that would be a very very median standard uh in in america or australia there was um [Music] wow there's this statistic from uh thomas soule that i read in one of his books that he got from another guy um from a from an economist down in in mexico where um the the poverty class in america like the the lowest 20 percentile um in america that was equivalent to the you know upper middle class standard of living in mexico yeah wow and and and equivalent to the median standard of living in europe right all of europe so that includes eastern europe as well so it's not just england or france it's all of that combined so the median uh standard standard of living was equivalent to uh you know the lower 20th percentile in america so um you know there are things that put things into perspective yeah and and it's so it's important to do that and so you know having traveled quite a lot i've seen a lot of this and so this is why you know i you know research and i'm studying economics and people like seoul and historians such as victor davis hanson and and many others because you know it's important to know about this stuff and it's important to know why things are very different in different areas because the the universe thomas soul says the the basic fundamental starting point of humanity is poverty you you're born broke you don't you don't own a thing you know and you don't know anything you don't know anything you don't own anything and so you know it's you know people look at say like well why are these countries poor and what thomas soul says that's that's the wrong question it says why are certain countries wealthy why are certain people successful because the the normal baseline is just to do nothing and know nothing and produce nothing right that's that's that's the baseline you know just you sit still you will be poor and homeless and and uh you know not producing anything so what are people doing differently that makes them successful more or less successful what are what are different countries doing that make them more or less successful and so going around and seeing that puts these things in perspective and then you know you don't have these you know these different sorts of cultural class clashes where you're saying well america is the most horrible place ever australia's most horrible place ever england's most horrible place ever and it's racist and sexist and it's this and it's that and all these these terrible terrible things which no one you know wants to be in so we're very self-conscious of that we just say okay you know is there something going on here that needs to be fixed and you try to address that but when you actually see that things are so much better certain and nothing's ever going to be perfect you know there's always room to improve but when you go to see these areas that really do have serious disparities and serious poverty you know then you actually start putting these things in better perspective and go like okay there are flaws and there are things we can improve on but we don't need to scrap the entire system and start over yeah that's right because there's often a call to kind of to overhaul things that that might actually be the thing that's keeping us you know in the in the western world in a capitalist society in the first place uh because yeah if you try to interfere too much and make things too even well you can see what you can make it happens in countries like the philippines yeah well you can make it even but you're going to make it everyone evenly poor and destitute yeah yeah like you're saying you tall poppy syndrome in uh in australia you know you just want it you want to make sure you know like you can even you can have all the trees in the forest be the same height if you if you cut down the tallest ones you know you just start lobbing them off that's the only way if if you want to be free you will never have equality if you have wanted like like equal outcomes not not equal opportunities but we want yeah exactly you know when you have equal opportunity you will not have equal outcomes you know when you have equal outcomes you will never have equal opportunity by definition because you have to stop people from from progressing when they could produce more you know and so why is that a good thing why would you stop people from from being productive the whole point of you know being productive is that you're producing things that other people want and they're willing to pay for you know so that's providing benefit by definition you know and then obviously you get into you know areas of corruption and and you know philippines america australia are no exemptions to this there are no exemptions around the world but when you get more corrupt which the philippines has a lot more corruption then you're going to get into a lot more uh difficulties and in america and australia as well you're going to have different corporations or different special interests lobbying politicians to get special favors and get special treatment and so then the government's picking winners and losers as opposed to letting people decide what they want to buy and what they want to do and how they want to live their life and that's when you get a problem but it's not it's not the system of freedom you know people's free choice to associate with who they want and to buy and produce what they want as long as they're not causing any harm the problem is corruption of that and and forcing people down one path or another based on on their own uh you know own personal designs that's the antithesis of a free market system and you see that certainly in the philippines and different places in uh africa where there's a lot of corruption a lot of crime they can't keep a hold of this stuff and you know they may not even care to because the people at the top will stay at the top this is positioning them up there but you know you get people like you know bezos uh who is one of the wealthiest people who's ever lived and he has more wealth than some countries but he's also produced more than some countries you have produced you know because you know he's got he's got a multinational company called amazon and this provides a lot of benefit to a lot of people and when you do that you are going to be successful and um as you were sort of alluding to before with the thomas soul comment like you know if you want to make things even by sort of chopping someone down like jeff bezos yeah the uh the outcome is not that we all go up to meet him on the billionaire stats the the outcome is that somebody like bezos comes crashing down to uh you know to our level or to a filipino's level you know it's not tearing those people down doesn't make things it might make things more equal but it doesn't make doesn't give you a better outcome that's for sure yeah and uh and it's only going to be certain people that are going to be equal because they're going to get people from charge to control everything yeah absolutely they certainly aren't living equally they certainly aren't living in the shanties they certainly aren't subject to these rules they are making their own rules and they are living quite well at the expense of everyone else and that's the grift right you know because it's not that you're trying to make things equal for everyone it's just you're trying to you're trying to get a lot of power and you're trying to take away from people that produce and make that yours you know and then you're in control and you're in charge but you know but that's the thing too it's just like you aren't the one who created it you're not the one who's who's able to run it and and and do it well so you have an entrance you don't know how to run it yeah and so when they when the governments take over these these enterprises they end up going pretty poorly um and there's a bunch of corruption and embezzlement and other sorts of issues as well which make which makes them uh go downhill as well but you know but even in in places like england when they socialize things and nationalize different uh industries um it's just not as efficient because the people who have developed these things you know aren't the ones in charge and and running it and and looking at this is like okay well if i do this wrong i go out of business i lose my house and i lose my savings okay but if the government just runs it into the ground and wastes a bunch of money well we just raise taxes you know we'll the politicians still get paid yeah yeah exactly yeah well that's that's one thing that thomas soul says is that you know it's a really bad idea to have people making decisions who pay no price for you know have no consequence for things going wrong you know so when you're making decisions in your life and things either go well and you benefit from that or they go poorly and you suffer from that that really makes you look at things very very closely and maybe it doesn't come out right but who's to say that some you know dude over in in the capital uh building is going to make a better decision than you you know i mean that that's just pretty arrogant you know that's just assuming everyone's just so stupid they can't run their own lives and so someone else needs to run it for them problem being is that when if things go wrong that dude in the capitol house doesn't pay any penalties for that he's all good he's fine and he's bonus yeah and the person who who did uh get affected by that they're screwed you know so they never even got a choice in how to run their life they never even had the chance to do things well or poorly because they were just considered to be so stupid and so you know sophomoric that they couldn't make any decisions on their own so obviously you know okay little johnny like you know that's cute that you want to play you know big boy but here's how you actually have to do it and then johnny's life is screwed and not only that is and what if it's what if it's not screwed what if he you know does provide benefit and whatever well he's now dependent he can't actually function on his own so how is that good you know you're not training people to be adults you're training people to be dependents you know that's not good that's not that's not good for any society that's certainly not good for any any individual no so being a long time looking it back to nutrition you think about like government dietary models um or also you know like daddy bill gates making the decision that you know all the fertile farmland should be used for p protein and people should stop eating meat and um stop expelling carbon while he flies around on his jet um you know why would you let somebody else make the decision for you on you know on what is best for your health and i think you know i think within the carnival community everyone's pretty aligned on that in that we're working out what suits us and what's you know and what we actually know to be true and you gotta back yourself right yeah well i mean that's the thing right is that you know this you know you can trot out any number of studies and you know there are ways of looking at studies to see if they're they're crap or not but either way you know not every anyone not everyone can do that and you can get studies that say anything you know we were talking you know off camera about you know a study that that uh um people were discussing about canola oil and how you know maybe it's you know being vilified unfairly um the study concluded that well actually you know when you put people on canola oil and replace different oil you know who knows what else they're eating they're eating and drinking and doing in their lives you know you don't know these epidemiological uh studies aren't great just for that reason but this this thing you know showed that you know when you people were eating more canola oil than other vegetable oils or plant oils and even saturated fats that you know there you you improved your cardiac risk factors such as total cholesterol and ldl cholesterol so they're saying well this is actually good maybe canola oil is actually good for you and it is providing benefit but you know the the salient point there is that you know those are those aren't risk factors so you know higher you know reducing your cholesterol reducing your ldl in multiple studies has been shown to actually increase heart disease increase heart attack increase stroke increase cardiac related death so that's not what we want and so that's not an end result we want and so that's not that's not a you know something that i'm interested in and you know when you have people uh you know just just you know talking about these and you can talk about all sorts of studies that that say anything but what is it doing for your life you know and you know why are you you know why would you trust your own eyes why would you trust your would you trust your own body and your own health you know if you have rheumatoid arthritis you know and you stop eating vegetables and vegetable oils and sugar and grains and just start eating meat and you stop having rheumatoid arthritis and that goes away clinically and radiographically um no no but that but obviously that couldn't be happening it's bad for you yeah exactly control study okay you know there are studies that show a lot of these things but you know at the end of the day like who cares gives a trust your instincts yeah well but not even trust your instinct like trust the fact that this is good you know we i've i have so many people uh you know coming to me sending me messages about you know how thankful they are how grateful they are that i've said these things because they have like crohn's or also colitis and they they've gone on a carnivore diet and in two three months it's gone you know and they get and this is not this is not subjective this is objective they're getting colonoscopies and they're getting biopsies of their tissue and they're finding no signs of inflammation no signs of crohn's or uc okay that is that is a hard fact you know that it doesn't matter what your argument is that's what matters is what is actually happening in the real world and i say this a lot but i will keep saying it because it's important you know like what richard feynman said it doesn't matter how brilliant your theory is and it doesn't matter how smart you are if it doesn't agree with experiment it's wrong and so when you have someone with crohn's and ulcerative colitis and you say no no no meat's really bad for you eat a bunch of plant-based crap and your crohn's and ulcerative colitis gets worse that's wrong when you stop eating all that that they tell you to eat and you start eating the things that they tell you not to eat and it goes away that's clearly correct you know and so at least something is happening it may not be you know what i'm saying it is but it's something something is happening there something is going on there and it is helping these people and when you have person after person after person after person after person have the exact same results you know you really need to sit up and take take notice because you know what a theory is only as good as what it's able to predict and when i as someone comes to me with crohn's and ultra colitis or with hashimoto's or with rheumatoid arthritis and they say well is this going to help me and i say in if you go strict meat and water in two to three months you will not have your issue anymore it will be gone and they do it and it does it works yeah every time every damn time i tell you what this has just got me thinking um it's got me thinking about rivero which is uh sean baker's company uh and and thinking about i mean how big of an impact could rivero potentially make and i know like you and i are big believers in it and and we would like to think that that it will help you know it's probably already helped let's let's call it tens of thousands of people maybe more yeah who knows yeah but but you know i hope it goes on to help tens and hundreds of millions of people because it clearly can yeah and i think i think it will i think it will i think it is i mean i mean i i you know believe in it enough that i invested my own money into it because i think that this is this is this is something that needs to happen you know i'm not looking at this as an investor like ooh i think this is a wave of the future i i think it needs to be the wave of the future if we're going to if we're going to have any any favorable outcome because if if medicine doesn't change what we're doing people are going to be screwed and they're going well people already are screwed and they're just going to continue to get more screwed if we have any hope of getting people well and actually living normal functional healthy lives then then we need to go to a model like rivero whereas actual preventative medicine where you actually say hey let's address why you're sick as opposed to just putting a band-aid on it and just pretending it's not there you know that doesn't work you know like if you're if you if you've got you know hit by a bus and you're bleeding internally and you're you're crippled with pain yeah you give someone morphine but you also you know fix the internal bleeding you know you don't just go like are you in any pain anymore no i feel fine okay job done you know and then just let them bleed out on the table you know that that is not enough you have to you you find you maybe you help them symptomatically you have people with uh diabetes or heart disease and and high blood pressure issues yeah while you're healing them while you're addressing the underlying issue maybe there are medications that are going to benefit them until the underlying cause root cause is addressed but you need to be addressing the root cause you don't just give someone you know blood pressure medication for the rest of their life you know you address their people and but they do but you know what you what you should be doing is addressing why that person has high blood pressure and there are reasons for this and there are some reversible reasons and there are some that that people think like oh well this person just has blood pressure high blood pressure we don't know why well actually we do know why now and a lot of these cases is because of insulin resistance and when you um you know because insulin can affect the the contractility of your of your vessels and so if that's not you know if that's not responding to insulin that's not going to be uh going anywhere and so that's just going to stay rigid and then that means pressure is going to go up because it can't expand and reduce the volume so when you're not insulin resistance you get rid of that insulin resistance now all of a sudden this can expand contract appropriately and your blood pressure will be normal and it will normalize and so you're not just you know you know putting a patch on it and pretending that that the leak's not there you're actually fixing what's going on and so i think that that's it absolutely vital i think that is medicine yeah there we go that's that's a cool point and that is medicine actually actually getting to the root cause and healing people right it's not just prescribing stuff yeah exactly and so you know you do need to address these underlying conditions and that's something we've just completely lost sight of in the last 40 years of chronic disease is because you know we just didn't sort it out at all we're seeing more of these diseases and then just people just dismiss that and instead of saying okay what are we doing wrong what are we doing differently here they said it's probably always happening and we just didn't notice it which is so stupid i mean that is just it's just wrong you know we've been keeping very close statistics i did da vinci was it was an idiot yeah exactly you know that guy couldn't that could couldn't notice anybody with coronary heart disease really yeah that guy dissected hundreds and hundreds of people yeah marcus aurelius all like you know you think about the incredible people in history they were done yeah you know yeah you know michelangelo um you know this guy was obviously contemporary of da vinci um these these guys they were you know had permission from the from the church to do dissections because that was something they were like no that's you're desecrating a body like that's not right but they had permission to do that so they could see the underlying structures and the muscles and how things work together so that they could make better art and more accurate art and that was you know in the glory of god and and in religion so they were given special dispensation to do that and this is when the doctors really started actually understanding what the hell was going on because before that you had your gallanticals which were like the books from galen back in marcus aurelius's time um and he just wrote like you know this is the anatomy this is all the structures this is all this and this and this is how you treat all these problems and he said yeah he was he was very uh evidence-based and and uh experimental in his approach but then he was he was quite uh profoundly arrogant when he said i have discovered everything there is to know about medicine you don't need to study this you don't need to look into it all you need to do is study me and then you'll know everything and so for like 1500 years that's what it was that's what western medicine was it was just you know learning and teaching galen well we we almost had that with the uh with the sugar lobbyists saying that fat causes heart disease you know yeah yeah like if people didn't push back on that it just gets set in stone for 300 years however long well yeah well i mean it's still there it's been it's been damn years and yeah it's it's not it's still good with the struggle but you know you get hot hot healthy canola oil and low calories will lowers your cholesterol so obviously it's good for you you know and uh but yeah what um you know some people found when they actually started doing these dissections was that galen was wrong that that these had these were these structures were actually only seen in apes and monkeys and they all of a sudden realize you know galen never actually dissected a human and they started going through this i'm like these are all wrong you know and and that that was the thing you you have to do these dissections and that's when you know uh uh sort of modern anatomical theory and knowledge actually came about um michelangelo was one of these guys there's a there is a statue of this guy where he's like holding something and the pinky's just raised like this you look at my arm you look right here there's a muscle that only goes it only flexes when you when you extend your pinky okay not just not as profound on my arm but yeah i get you and so you know that in his statute his pinky was raised like that that muscle was contracted how's that for daytime that guy knew the body these guys paid attention and so if you're going to see a bunch of people with all these diseases that we had they would have picked it up someone would have picked it up and yet we're only seeing this now and we're keeping close watch on this we're keeping close statistics on it and yet it's only popping up now well were we just not paying attention before no we were paying close attention before and then we just saw this spike up and people just just ignored it just went ah i'm sure it's nothing you know that was wrong you know there was something going on and you know i argued that it's that is diet but it was something something happened something changed on a population one basis and it wasn't our genetics you know because that doesn't happen that can't happen in population genetics anybody who you know studied populations genetic would genetics would know that is not possible to do without massive eradication and mass genocide uh of a population you know under very specific means you know like you isolate out a specific you know genetic group and you slaughter them you know that's the only time that you're going to get any significant changes uh in any you know in any you know period of time in a lifetime or a few generations it just cannot happen otherwise and so it didn't happen so something happened people were paying attention and we were paying attention and we noticed exactly when this happened it started increasing and we saw it we saw it happen in real time and then everyone just went i'm sure it was always happening why yeah were people did we just massively overhaul our statistics uh you know taking capacity is that is that something we changed no it was exactly or were humans sort of born to have half of us as sick as they are currently do you know what i mean like even that kind of logic of like you know should a human be crazy unhealthy and have heart disease at 60 years old well no it doesn't make any sense because they're not they can't function they can't do anything they're sick yeah i think an interesting kind of question i don't know if you've got an answer for this but like historically there must be some races who've kind of like run into a into a bad time um and have been unhealthy like for example you know people talk about the egyptians eating a lot of wheat and then we've got like all these mummifications of the egyptian people and a lot of them you can tell they've got like arthritis and they had a lot of visceral fat um have you got any kind of anecdotes of any cultures that that that suffered similar to that yeah well i mean we don't even have anecdotes we have hard evidence that that um you know the ancient egyptians did suffer specifically from eating wheat because you know we haven't and they were a rich group of people like relatively speaking relatively speaking and then there were there were very wealthy pharaohs and nobility uh there uh within and you know we we've actually looked at these these mummies and and subjected them to to stable isotope testing and actually found that because the thing is that people don't always know is that everybody was mummified by and large most people were mummified not necessarily everyone but it wasn't just the pharaohs it wasn't just the wealthy and their servants that were mummified uh basically everyone and so uh people have estimated that there are more mummies uh buried around egypt today than there are people alive in the country of egypt yeah wow there are a ton of these things and we look at them and you know poor middle upper lower class they look at them they found that they were all eating the same thing they were all eating basically the same thing as as um as found by the stable isotope uh research and they found that you know the poor people were eating wheat the rich people were eating weeds just you know the rich people probably had more of it and you know didn't didn't have to go hungry every now and then but uh everyone was eating the same thing and they were all getting the heart disease they were all getting uh excess adipose tissue they were the men were getting gynecomastia to the extent that their statutes depict this where you have men with man boobs and a gut you know and when you look at the ancient greeks just just ripped demigods yeah and you know maybe that's just uh you know artistic you know yeah just listen so maybe it's not like but yeah but you know but it's it's interesting and when you have when you have uh you know these statues just showing man boobs you know when a lot of people are probably starving you know so it's not just just just just excess food it's it's uh you know excess of the wrong food um you know there's also uh early historical sort of uh archaeological opinion paleontological uh evidence where there was there was a group of early humans before homo abilis and before the ice ages that sort of split off and started eating more plants and more plants and more plants well they died off they don't exist anymore they died off about three million years ago so the the group that sort of started going the way of the vegan they died out they didn't make it and uh and ominous for contemporary vegans yeah well it's just it's not gonna be good and three million years ago we were much closer to our herbivorous roots than today and you know even even early humans at that time had not gone full carnivore and the line that did go full carnivore that's us you know that those are who we descended from and so you'll see uh there's a there's a harvard study as well more recent obviously more recently than that um that's uh that looked at dental health in um the inuits living traditionally not living in cities and eating much of nonsense but actually eating um traditionally just eating meat and then they looked at that with a group living rurally in the yucatan peninsula and they were eating a lot of you know plants you know they weren't eating processed food they weren't eating a bunch of sugar and crap they were eating plants in the forest by and large and they're eating meat as well because you can't simply can't survive without meat in some extent but they were eating a lot of plants and you know the inuits not eating any plants and um this dentist that was doing this i don't know if he's a professor of dentistry uh at um you know over there or or just whoever was running the study but he said that in his entire career he had maybe seen ten perfect teeth and in the inus they studied every single one except two teeth were perfect and they looked at you know uh quite hundreds of individuals so i think it was it was close to a thousand different teeth and he said that all but two of them were perfect they didn't have dentists they didn't have dental floss they weren't brushing their teeth you know and now they do lines in the serengeti and yet they have their teeth their whole lives you know and we're losing our teeth they're rotting they're getting cavities that should tell you something your oral dental health you know should be able to take care of itself it's like it's like the canary in the coma in your teeth i think like that like it's often the first thing to go wrong and i've conducted my own study on myself and uh i had trouble with my wisdom teeth coming through um and ever since switching to you know 95 percent carnivore uh they're just coming through no problem and like before that i've seen dentists and they're like oh you've got to pay x amount of dollars to get them all cut out you're going to have to be knocked out blah blah blah that is coming through now um and like before it was they were getting infected and causing bad breath and i just don't even think about them now they're coming through it's healthy hardly brush my teeth only really brush my teeth when i'm going somewhere you know somewhere nice basically you just it's it's so much easier and your mouth is so much healthier yeah i mean yeah i still you know sort of brush and floss you know and um but i find that um it's uh it's just a very different thing yeah it's much easier to uh to keep care of your dental mental health and oral health and you know that's something people ask me you know because like their sweeteners and their you know mint and whatever flavors and toothpaste is that something you want well it may not be ideal but uh you're not gonna swallow it so it's not really gonna get much into you but um there are dentists that say that you should probably just stick to to baking soda just something a bit coarse um that you can sort of wet the toothbrush dip it in that you have a bit of stuff on the end and you just use that as an abrasive to sort of get off and try that like build up yeah and then um and then that works and so um but you know if you have to use toothpaste it's not i don't think it's it's as big of a deal as as uh spinach or anything like that so you know it's um it's something that um uh if you want to get as close to perfect as you can then your baking soda is a good idea but yeah so the you know the the harvard study looked at these guys they found they had perfect damn teeth and you know and and they contrasted that with this tribe in the yucatan who's either just it was like a chimpanzee at the zoo yeah he gets fed a bunch of bananas and things because they don't eat that very often in the wild you know they eat they eat specific leaves and plants and so you know it was just like just rotting out of their teeth at very poor dental health they had like you know smaller jaw size crooked teeth very poor quality teeth and they were rotting and getting you know cavities and and falling out of their heads and so this was a stark contrast in just a more recent study that was published in the in the harvard crimson uh a while ago but you know there there are countless examples and then you have you look at look at different areas just around the world that um you know like like in china and and other parts of asia were very plant-based very rice-based they don't necessarily have a lot of access to meat because you know a lot of people are impoverished they don't grow very tall the average height of a population you know indicates the average health of a population and you get these you know and obviously there's been you know communist famines and wars and and times of strife so you know people can genetically develop morocco yeah well just developmentally they're smaller but genetically they could have grown bigger if given the right uh you know the right nutrition and so then you get these you know small wizard uh people and then they come to america and their kids are six foot four six foot five yeah that's really nice they're actually they're actually getting you know high quality food which is meat and so you can just you can see that right there from one generation to the next how much difference uh you know proper nutrition makes you have someone who's five foot four their kid's six foot eight you know how'd that happen you know it wasn't milkman tall or something no because you know they they actually uh you know actually were getting proper nutrition and they were able to develop to their genetic potential and so yeah you can see it just in just just right there every day you know from from different uh you know population migration as well yeah fascinating all right well we uh we started off on travel went to the philippines talked about thomas soul and economics and then we started talking about dental health yeah well we even got we got a little bit of davinci in there too and michelangelo may have been all over yeah but um yeah to jump back to the the beginning um you know it is possible to you know eat any way that you want to anywhere in the world and uh there are ways conscientiously and um and sometimes you you make some you know mitigations like there's a bit of sauce on it like okay you know i'm not gonna i'm not gonna you know be too much of a of a uh have too much problem with that but other times there were a lot of sauces and i just said yeah i'm not gonna eat and like you're not gonna eat anything i was like yeah i'd rather not eat than than eat something that's bad for me you know and and you can do that on carnivore because it doesn't really matter um in in the grand scheme of things i could go a couple weeks without eating and not run into any serious health issues you know i don't plan on doing that and i won't ever do that intentionally but you know if i need to skip a meal or i need to not eat for a day until i get to something that i want to eat you know then then i'm happy to do that you know if you know the only thing that i have to eat is a brick of heroin and probably won't eat that you know and so i'll just say like yeah there's no food here i'm not gonna eat yet because i don't i just don't consider those things food you know that's something that if i'm starving to death i can get sustenance i can i can nourish myself to not die but i don't consider that food because food is species specific and our species that's not food and so i don't want to just get some nutrients for the sake of that like i'm not starving i'm not in any pain i'm not in any distress so why would i subject myself to that why would i put something harmful in my body just for the sake of getting some calories in i don't care i have enough calories i have fat reserves you know like they exist even though you know i'm you know more lean than i've been at other times in my life i still have plenty of fat reserves like i'm not in any trouble and so not eating for a day or two or five is not going to cause harm and so i can certainly skip you know one meal in favor of of waiting and to to get something else so it's never really a problem if you uh just sort of you takes a bit of effort but you know life is effort like you know and then things that are worthwhile take effort so um you know i'm willing to do that and if other people are as well there are things that you can do and uh and go all over the world without a problem great advice thanks anthony all right we'll leave it there uh sounds good let's chat again next week sounds good buddy see you then