Overcoming Autoimmune Disease | Phil Escott | PFMD Ep 154

welcome to the plant free MD podcast with Dr Anthony chafee where we discuss diet and nutrition and how this affects health and chronic disease and show you how you can use this to optimize your health and happiness both mentally and physically everyone thank you for joining another episode of the plant free MD and today I have a return guest my good friend Phil Ascot calling all the way over from the UK Phil thanks for coming and joining us well thanks for having me on Anthony it's great to be back on and you know thanks thanks for having me on before and you know I don't need to go too much into my previous store I covered that before but uh yeah I thought I'd come on with a bit of disclosure and a warning for autoimmune people yeah yeah so a cautionary tale for for those with autoimmune issues so you went through a bit of of troubles this past year and thankfully straighten things out but uh yeah maybe maybe walk us through that and uh maybe we can learn something on on how to best manage their issues yeah definitely well you know the last time I was on I went through the story of um you know how I originally got it and I was really crippled with psoriatric arthritis back in 2010. and then I I did my vegan phase lost most of my muscle then discovered keto and kind of got halfway there and you know from to 2013 or so at 2014 when I wrote my um arthritis best thing that ever happened to me book and I was kind of almost there but I didn't go fully Carnival until 2015. and then things were great for years and years and you know I thought you know this is this is fantastic I've uh I've sorted everything and um you know I've um I I I've fixed the gut I can I can take some Liberties and so last year I took some Liberties now I didn't eat any plants had enough of them I don't want to eat that's that stuff but um yeah I was traveling around a lot you know and I was playing with the Dazz Band we had this number one single a couple years ago and um you know I won't even mention the lyrics of it because we're getting the channel pulled down but we weren't particularly we weren't particularly complimentary about the um the whole business that went on with sticking stuff in people's arms and all sorts but um it got to number one we got Shadow band and whatever and they soon got that off the charts but um I I had some festivals to play and traveling around and I thought I am okay you know I have a bit of a Rock and Roll Lifestyle I'll I'll drink a few too many brandies I'll smoke a few spliffs I'll do that but you know I don't think that's what did it I think it was uh well we'll come on to the isolate thing in a while but I I think what happened was I I decided that you know it's very difficult isn't it to get really good meat when you're on the road it's it's easy to get chicken pork it's easy to get eggs it's easy to get cheese and sauce probably eating too much of that sort of thing and I thought well it's all right you know and I was putting a bit of fat on I mean I was nothing like I was can I share the screen a sec yeah yeah go for it make sure you can uh no it says it's still disabled and you just I think on the share screen button you can allow screen sharing but just so let's show this one quickly because I didn't last time okay I think I've given you there we go [Music] can you see that yep yeah yeah wow that was um that was me 2010 on the left probably 2011 on the right and that was when I I really messed up I've never shown it before or after before but you know that was that was the last time it's funny around that time my my um ex-wife um went to um India and went to see an ayurvedic doctor in Nevada and showed a picture of me and said and he said some people can stay healthy when they're a bit overweight but he can't give him a few years and he's going to be really really sick well I didn't really take that into account I didn't know what to do about it in those days anyway um and so um he was right there was probably I don't know 2005 or something and so 2010 yeah I was in real trouble there it was and then I kind of went vegan and then discovered the keto thing but I mean that's 90 pounds down in about I don't know eight months or something like that and it was just after that picture was taken and I got really really sick but anyway I've seen that and get rid of that thing but um yeah so I I I kind of put on a bit of weight last year nothing nothing like you know I still had a flat stomach and whatever but I was in the back of my mind I thought I wonder if I'm just not designed to carry any fur you know eating dairy and stuff like that it it can do it and then I came back from the last festival and a few days a few days later it was a real stressful year loads of money weirdness and selling rental houses and sales falling through and it was one of those hideous years you know it probably all of it added up but you know I started to get some bit of a a sort of niggle in one knee and I thought well you know if I ever eat anything wrong all I need to ever do is just do it days fast and then come back onto the program disappears I'll be fine it did not get fine and it was like like it wasn't a flare it was a supernova you know and I I dropped 45 pounds that I didn't want to drop at the time I was 165 pounds went down to 120 pounds I was completely emaciated now five foot ten wow and um I was confined to the sofa you know I couldn't stand I was on crutches if I did I I was um the pain even at rest was horrific um but I thought oh well you know whatever's happened and it started off actually uh late last summer with a kidney stone and I thought but I haven't taken any oxalates for ages just the odd like over again over this last year the odd cheek with a bit of chocolate or something I thought I said I'm not enough to do that and I had Sally Norton on my podcast a little while ago and I said to her well is it possible like eight years into carnivore you could have a real oxalate dump and I don't know it's just one of the theories and she said oh yeah it is so I wondered with the if it hadn't have started with a kidney stone I wouldn't have thought anything of it but I did and I was lying on the sofa there and I thought I'm supposed to be this Carnival sort of arthritis Guru and here I am wasting away and tremendous pain this is embarrassing man anyway it was it was lucky actually because I mean previously it took me about three years to get out that mess and this time it took me about three months but it was because I had the confidence you know this this is a kind of a warning to to autoimmune people and and I was chatting to Sophia as well you know yesterday on my podcast as well and it's going to come out soon now we're on a real deep dive into autoimmunity and I think I think she's honestly right particularly about Dairy you know you can get the odd Flair from pork and chicken if you're Autumn even if it's bad stuff but you know Dairy I I I'm starting to re I've always thought it's kind of dodgy and advised anybody who comes to me for a consult not to do the dairy but you know Sophia saying that um even a few molecules can keep it going and you know it can it can have it repercussions for years if you filled yourself full of dairies absolutely fascinating with all the the sort of growth factors in it but yeah I just had to go completely PKD fully leap beef lamb fatty beef lamb salt and water and that's it and gradually gradually it it it it turned itself around but you know I see a lot of people who are who go beef lamb salt and water and it doesn't stop immediately you know it's like stopping a ferry isn't it even if the gut's healed you can still have these sort of repercussions of it sort of um little flares along the way and it goes up and down up and down and it's to really give people confidence that you know that it was yeah at one point my my Mrs who is a who is a nurse she took some Bloods took them down to the doctor I didn't want their interpretation on me I wanted to look at them and and I wanted to send them to Sophia as well to check there's nothing really horrific going on um you know beyond the autoimmunity that I'm familiar with and of course the docks you know they called me up and everything they said no you've probably got cancer and all of this this is really bad this is you know the female said look I haven't and listen even if you've lost that much weight in that short time yeah you probably got cancer okay like you know no no I haven't I said I know what's going on here and um even if I did have cancer I'm not going to do anything that that you recommend so just thanks thanks to the results and all that you know I'll uh I'll send them to zofia and she said yeah you know it's it's just horrific inflammation but I mean to give you an idea my CRP when I wrote that book was like well when I wrote the book about the times when I was sick before it was like when it was tested it was like about 85. which is horrific but back in November last year it was 192 CRP that's crazy hey guys just want to take a second to thank our sponsor the carnivore bar I don't promote many products because honestly all you need to be healthy is to just eat meat but for those times that you're out hiking road tripping or stuck at work and you want nutritious snack that is just meat fat and salt if you want it the carnival bar is a great option so I like this product not because it's just pure meat but also because I want the carnivore Market to thrive as well and the more we support meat only products the more meat only products that will be available in the mainstream so if this sounds like something you'd like to get behind check it out using my discount code Anthony to get 10 off which also applies to subscriptions giving you 25 off total all right thanks guys you know yeah the only time I've seen that anything like that was my mum when she was dying of pneumonia and that it was like 250. yeah and and you know I thought whoa that's a beast no wonder I felt that much pain but it was a it was a real severe one and then I had it done again I think in a month and it was 19 and I didn't I didn't do it after that but it came down pretty fast and and I now I don't know I don't know what I am now I feel fine I'm fine and then you know the waves started coming back on and it was funny because uh people were saying you know um oh don't go on Zoom don't do anything don't don't go on in on your YouTube channel and I thought no I gotta be honest man you know I I'm gonna be over about this and I'm going to show myself looking like that um dramatic carnivore weight loss yeah yeah yeah well you know I put back on a good sort of 15 20 pounds now again you know in that time I managed to get training again I'm not going to put any fat on anymore and you know I'm actually actually got some legs to go in my trouser legs now which I didn't have before you know it's annoying because it was particularly uh horrific looking down at those stringy legs because you know late 90s I ran a gym and I remember a time when I used to you know and after all these sort of extensive periods of 20 reps squatting and I used to have to buy jeans that were too big for my waist to even get my quads in you know and so for me it was you know you probably know the problem yeah and and and so to look down at legs that were like a string and then a lump and then a string it was like you know it's taking something back from that so but I I think just to just to give people to come on here and give people real confidence that that whatever you whatever you're going through this I did a lot of other things I got all the lights sorted I was grounding as much as possible I was doing all my emotional stuff and all that kind of thing and you know just chilling out but really that magical place of just beef lamb salt and water if you're autoimmune or even if you've got better from autoimmune and got things still niggling get on it it's it's the the difference between regular Carnival with a bit of pork chicken a bit of eggs bit of dairy and proper you know lamb beef salt and water really fatty the sort of PKD approach it's night and day it really is night and day I mean the Improvement is greater from crappy carnivore to to that really pure Carnival to uh than it can be sometimes from a regular diet to to carnivore including Dairy and stuff like that if you're autoimmune and yeah a huge eye-opener for me and it was funny we did we did this big fat challenge it was called a big fat challenge because we were you know Ben Hunt and I were trying to set up something for people to come along and have calls every day and and it and it was it was for the big fat bit was to get people aware of animal products you know animal fats and how healthy they are and that kind of thing that was why it's called the big fat challenge we went into all the other stuff too but it's funny so it's documented from the 1st of January and you can see me come on there looking like skeletal and then sort of filling out as it goes along and now you know we're building some of this muscle back up I'm fine I like this level of leanness now it feels really good again to you know have um be pulling in my belt on trousers and stuff like that you know I got like a 30 inch waist again it was like 28 at one point there was just too little yeah but you know it's nice to be there again but that was basically the story of what happened and and just to say to people you know take care because it's funny sometimes the body can go do you know what you're going to get a big slap and if you built up some of these toxins or whatever it is that goes in there I mean you know I'm still after studying it for so long I'm still kind of unclear on exactly the mechanism of what causes autoimmunity causes of these flares is it molecular mimicry is it toxins accumulating in certain parts but is it but whatever it is you know that PKD thing really does seem to seem to nail it so yeah that was what happened to me what I mean well that's pretty scary I mean you lost so much weight that that's I mean literally very dangerous amount of weight loss and obviously uh being as as weak and in pain as you were not being able to get off the couch I mean that's quite scary um so it was the kidney stone that then triggered you was like okay wait this is this is something that I've got to change and I've got to really go strict on this or or no no it was it was a joint pain I mean I thought the kidney stone I mean I I thought I'd already looked a whole load into oxalates and and whatever and I remember when I had a kidney stone in like 2012. it was kind of obvious to me now that I was going to get one because I was doing almost lethal doses of spinach smoothies every day you know how is that I was I was putting a whole pack of spinach in and then because it tastes so awful I was putting all this other stuff in you know like avocados banana there's a load of honey all that sort of thing but I was also thinking oh let's throw a load of turmeric in there as well and whiz up some almonds I mean I I don't know anyone who's done as as much uh oxalate loading as I have during that period it was horrific um and so it was it was pretty much predictable and soon after that I'd have a kidney stone it was like kind of a 12 Miller you know and it got stuck in the ureter and I had to have it you know a laser up my knob and get it lasered out and broken up it was it was and then I thought hey great I'm free of that at least you know I've got rid of it and whatever but I'm thinking if I was dumping oxalates back then if oxalates if the oxalate dumping is an actual thing which again I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm sort of I'm open-minded too because I Sophia yesterday was going oh no it's not it's not like that it's not an issue and I had Sally on you know who's saying oh yeah of course you can dump you know and have all these horrific issues but uh back then I thought yeah it's kind of obvious that that's what's happened but this time I thought I'm taken in any and then I thought hang on a minute actually the body can dump really slowly I could have had a kidney stone building up for years there even from the spinach smoothies years before if some of the theories are correct so I thought oh well that's okay you know maybe that's it maybe that's done I don't know what the joint thing had anything to do with an oxalate issue maybe it did maybe it was it was just the dairy and and triggering the autoimmunity again that decided to come on in a in a very sudden and very severe form but in um you know it was also around the Autumn Equinox and I think um you know that is a time when a lot of people get sick and so it was it was a lot of things kind of built up there's a time of you know to go into the woo-woo side it is a sort of natural detox time of the body and and I think a lot of people get sick around there which is why you know some people some people not that they ever have of course but some people might be able to around that time maybe say fake a pandemic or something like that but um you know this uh this sort of thing can happen around that time so you know who knows who knows what it was but hopefully no more kidney stones I mean I did have a scan on it I tell you what it was it was quite cool actually when I went down with the uh for the for the kidney stone thing because I thought I was in real pain and I thought I'm gonna have to go and figure it out it would just come in attacks it wasn't constant but it was horrific you know my kids one day they were going are you gonna die Daddy okay I know I know what's going on I'm not gonna die but I was rolling around the floor you can't get comfortable in any position you're bending over the chair like sitting down standing out it's horrific when it's going on but um I went to see this uh urologist and he was really cool you know I went to this sort of I got this private consult because I didn't want to wait for the NHS and I went down to this this place and I was his last consult for the day and I went in and uh he he was very cool and he he had his coven muzzle on you know and um and I said to him on the way to the to the office and I said listen you can take that off please don't don't wear that for me it's like he went all right I'll thank God for that yeah we had a chat about all that stuff well I thought this guy's pretty cool yeah and um you know I was I was it was before the joint thing hit and so I was really jumping around perfectly mobile looking healthy and all that and um and I got chatting with him and you never get this with an English doctor you get two minutes five minutes or whatever we were there for an hour and a quarter chatting about carnivalry nice it was amazing and he was brilliant and and then he said you know thank God for that you know I've got something now I can tell my um my secretary who is uh who is a vegan you know and then later he told me later that um his secretary had been following my channel and everything and was was starting to come around and he was starting to come on and really really getting into it and then I put them onto your channel and he'd been watching he'd been watching you and he'd been watching Sean and all of that and it was really cool but anyway he told me yeah you know you use one kidney stone that's it there's no sign of them anywhere else so I thought right okay got rid of that one um and uh no bother so but it is interesting to think that even after all these years if Sally's right and some other people with these um with these plant toxins because I mean I I often share your plants to try and kill your video because you've just nailed it there I mean I thought I knew about plant toxins but you know that's a popular one to share with people but it's years later that you can still suffer the repercussions of of these things and and that's no reason not to go carnivore I mean you know there's a there's a there's an old saying isn't there the best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago and the next best time is today so so just do it you know even if you're going to get these issues you get through them but um wow yeah so here I am the the the the ultimate example of how to poison yourself properly on veganism and how long it can go on yeah well yeah well I mean it's a good it's good it's good testimony as well and also you know I mean we sort of said as a cautionary tale I think it is you know because there are some people like yourself and others who are are just very very sensitive and uh to anything outside of that PKD diet just the red meat and water diet even even other meats and dairy especially I've seen a lot of that with patients with dairy they don't they don't handle it very well on uh on uh autoimmune when they have autoimmune issues even Michaela Peterson you know she says that you know she has pork it's like worse than a she eats fruit you know she and she really reacts badly to it and this is years years and years and years down the track so you know I think it's you know it is difficult to say exactly what's causing these sorts of things but whatever it is it's in the food and and eliminating that and just going just just to you know B flam salt and water seems to help and you know some people are a bit more stubborn they need you know grass-fed beef or lamb and grass finish I should say beef or lamb but um you know whatever it is it's something in there and something we're reacting to and something that's that's causing harm and just something that people sort of need to remember is that if you have one of these sensitivities you're a bit more sensitive to things you know yeah I think I think just beef lamb and water is probably the best thing that any of us could do I don't have any of those problems but I I feel way better just eating that and that's so that's why I naturally prefer to go to but you know people that you know don't have that luxury of being able to eat any meat that they want Dairy on occasion or whatever you know it's it's important to know that and so you know people knew coming to carnivore especially with autoimmune to try to help their autoimmune issues you know that's something that that's I think very important you know someone if someone's new coming to carnivore have autoimmune diseases what would you tell them how would you caution them how would you have them approach uh their diet well yeah it's I I always try to get them to do this from the start you know I I tell them that beef lamb salt and water really is the least traumatic thing that you can put into your body because a lot of people come to me with autoimmunity saying carnivore isn't working you know I I've learned I've got some improvements a little bit but it's not really working that well and then every time it's one of those things it's pork chicken eggs dairy or all of them or not eating enough fat you know that that that business of really keeping the fat High according to the PKD ratios is is a real game changer as well a lot of people I think they can still react to too much protein if the gut's still leaky maybe some of those proteins are getting through anyway even if they're not the type of proteins that would wreck the gut like glutens and whatever so some of those are still getting through and you can still get a reaction to it that's that's the kind of view I have of it but it's a shame particularly with the pork you know because I could just eat pork crackling all day I mean it's the nicest thing in the world isn't it but but no you know it it doesn't it doesn't go well with me but strangely um bacon isn't so bad particularly if you get some good bacon it's it's okay I can get away with that now and again but not fresh pork for some reason and there was a good uh article on it's on zero carbs then if you put zero carbs in pork in if anybody wants to see that and they've got some other uh it's a very old article down some other issues where where sometimes the pork will will sort of um thicken the blood or something like that and give some weird effects to some people but I I think a lot of this is down to the fact that pigs are not fed what they're supposed to eat you know they do get Federal crap they really do and you know the first time I ever chatted to Sophia when my Mrs got diagnosed with Graves disease and she was saying yeah pork is great it's all fatty and whatever and I said well maybe not in this country you know because out in Hungary they've got those mangolets of pigs and and they've probably eaten what they're supposed to eat and the fat is probably very very good but when you get when you get the pigs that have eaten all the soy and all the I don't know old socks and condoms and whatever they feed them I mean God knows what they feed them and yeah but um you know the Fat's pretty high in linoleic acid is pretty high in deuterium as well that other Rabbit Hole you know so I think you can have a bit of an effect on on on people but I I say to people really you know I I mean so fear again she she I keep mentioning her just because she's fresh in my mind we chatted so much yesterday about this and she's really not into fasting because you know she says that that you know you get all your all the nutrients you need and all the protection you need from a full-on PKD diet and I believe that yeah but sometimes you know you get people coming to you maybe who aren't carnivore and haven't understood the link between food and they don't believe you and and they're like you know just eat meat come on you know you get that kind of person then and then so you say well listen just try fast just try faster or dry fast couple of days and you just see how the information dies down and they and then often they come back and they go wow I believe you my doctor told me that diet had nothing to do with it and so you can kind of show them in that way that that it doesn't lead them in with that but a lot of people have heard about it now and that most of the people who come to me are you know I've tried Carnival I tried this I've tried that or but I'm all right with a bit of dairy I'm all right and and that's an interesting one because I think you know we were we were also when we were it was a shame you didn't get to the Sheffield conference that was fun you know it was but you know good to see you there blowing up all the crap you know and we're sure I love that that one with the picture split and it's got carnivore and vegetarian you can see the difference it's a nice meme there but I was there we were there cheering you on I was sitting there next to Sophia during that actually and we were cheering you it was brilliant but you know we took her out showed around the Peak District and whatever we went on this walk and then and then she dropped something kind of interesting on us early in the earlier in the day and I put this silly little vid up you know with these Daft questions for zofia it was before the proper podcast but she said something that raw up Dairy is actually worse than pasteurized Dairy and I thought wow that's interesting and I thought you see I've got an open mind it was funny so I was somebody on the YouTube channel when I put that up it came up Phil has anybody else told you that you're easily LED and I said well because because I didn't punch her in the face as soon as she said it or something you know I mean I I listened to anything man I'll listen to anything another one was saying this woman is certifiable but actually her points are quite interesting and that is that the main danger with dairy I mean I think the problem with the pasteurization is that people can't digest it immediately so they have better results with digestion from the road from the raw dairy but her point was that the growth factors in in Dairy are left more untouched when it's raw and so the problems come down the line that you're using um you're using this Dairy which is only really you know designed to make a small animal into a large animal and so it has a lot of growth factors and that can be more damaging and more sort of um um cancer risking in the future than pasteurized Dairy and I thought hey you never know that's kind of an interesting one that I hadn't heard before but of course all the raw raw milk guys you know get very angry about that because they have um there's a lot of tales of people healing on on raw meat raw milk but I I think I suspected and and Sophia agreed yesterday that it's kind of like those people who have sort of uh benefits from something like Gerson Therapy you know initial benefits but quite often the problems come down the line where you've just swapped one plan one set of plant toxins for another and then you know down the line you you get problems and on not only a recurrence of the original issue but other issues as well you know obviously with all the malnutrition and and um emaciation that comes with something like trying to push Gerson Therapy for too long and maybe the same thing is happening with the people on on the raw milk kind of cures who knows you know it's interesting anyway and and you want to certainly you know something to to consider I mean my my initial thought in response when I was a kid drinking milk and I loved I just loved milk we only drink skim milk though because it was all anti-fat sort of thing which is a shame but we I drink a lot of it I would drink like a gallon of milk a day sometimes I just absolutely loved it on board I wish it had the fat in it that would have been better but still drink a ton of milk and I remember people trying to you know say that it was bad oh it has all these growth factors and this isn't that so I'm like awesome sounds good frequency you know like I was like I was more than happy to to be a large adult you know male like I was like yeah more milk then that sounds great that sounds like oh that's a that's a that's a great Point actually because you know bodybuilders and whatever have up and down tons of milk I mean when I was in the gym and doing a ton of training and got big I was doing a loads you know and I'd mix a whole lot of protein powders in them and down them and fart all day long you know like you do but but I was um with the with the milk I mean it is another possibility that if you're really training then the growth gets channeled into a much more of a useful area because again I was sitting with so far at the conference we were talking about this because Sean was there you know and he's sitting there with his guns out and he's looking like way better than all the other guys who are sitting around and you know I was talking to him he was sitting next to me before he went up there and I said man look at those chairs you know you can't sit in one of those chairs you've got to get a different one without the arms you're going to get it stuck on your ass and end up walking around the states so if you notice when he's in that Patriot you know he's got one without the arms on so he can actually get out of it because there are these tiny little chairs sort of vegan sized ones but you know we were talking about this and she was saying yeah it depends on your goals doesn't it you know I mean there's nothing wrong with eating five pounds of rib eye steak a day if your goals are building muscle but when you're in a an autoimmune flare your goals are very different you know you you're unable to train enough to to put on any muscle you're probably unable to train at all and probably best you don't until the inflammation's down because it can you know it's it's just it hurts and it it you know it triggers a bit of inflammation anyway so you know at that point where or just some regular person who's very inactive maybe then it does go into some kind of uh unusual cell replication who knows um again we don't know do we I just like keeping an open mind listening to all these people and not aging and arguing when somebody says something that's a bit different to what you've heard before you know yeah it would be interesting if you um you know the effects of raw milk in general you know on your people going through puberty and you know and that's effects on other things it'd be hard to look at that in isolation um I guess you could do raw milk versus pasteurized milk I doubt that that study is ever going to be done but uh it would be interesting especially at a time when you could Channel these growth factors into actual growth and you know long bone growth and muscle growth and and things like that Healthy Growth and you get some bunch of Yao Ming's running around you know just like it's just a bunch of raw milk and uh growth hormone diet just smash yeah but you know I I I've uh I've been just doing so I haven't been to a gym for ages but I just do sort of body weight stuff and things here and get my um symbol case on my back and do some squats and or a child at my back and do some squats as they grow up and and you know I can I can put it back on there it'll be okay but um yeah you know my goals in that in that direction and not what they were but um it's it's just so nice to be lean again you know it's like nice to walk around at 61 years old and and look at all the other guys even even guys who are quite skinny and they've all got bellies a whole lot of them haven't they you know there's always something going on there nobody's got a flat stomach anymore they're either fat or skinny fat and um yeah I'd love to get a hold of them all and give them a shake and say listen guys you know it's real easy you just need to eat some fatty meat and it'll all disappear yeah oh to only have the problems of a fat belly that would be so simple for a lot of people but yeah it is um it has been a hell of a journey since that time but it's funny at those times you just learn so much the stuff that I've learned you know that I've been able to pass on to to clients about the little tweaks and things I seem to do most of my learning by getting as sick as possible and then finding my way out of it I'm not doing it again I've had enough of that but but you know that's how you troubleshoot you know and and because you've come across that before someone else were going through that man oh no I don't don't do that you know and uh and and you can you can head them off at the past before they before they go down that trail and and really hurt themselves you can you can tell them the things to watch out for I mean that that is that's just how we learn you know we we learned about different parts of the brain and what they do by destroying them and we damage those parts of the brain we go oh God what can this guy not do anymore you know this person has a stroke in this part of the brain like oh I guess that's what that part of the brain does because you know and that's how you learn and unfortunately you know someone has to pay for it you know to get that knowledge and that's why it's you know it's hard hard fought and won so it's uh you know it's worthwhile and it's it's worthwhile to pass that on to people so you know that they can they can learn from that yeah I think I think one of the important things really is to tell people something that I heard Natasha Campbell McBride say a long time ago that there's no point trying to work out exactly what it is in your diet in the last few days that's caused some kind of a flair because it can be something that you ate a month ago or even longer you know and if you've been backing these things up and say eating a load of dairy when you're autoimmune and and um or prone to autoimmunity I mean you can see the the track of autoimmunity really it's like I think it starts off in the subtle ways and these things take decades to build up you know when I look back as a child I used to get migraines I was healthy and fit and running around but but I used to get migraines and a couple of times I got asthma which I'd totally forgotten about luckily my parents didn't give me any of the inhalers because I think that can just kind of perpetuate it um there was a something else that Natasha Campbell McBride said was that once you start doing that you sort of Drive um Drive uh asthma deeper into the body and deeper is a problem and you don't allow the lungs to go through that um sort of spasm on sort of whatever it is that's going on there that then they they you get a sort of natural immunity to it if you like not really in that sense but you'll be okay like you know if you have measles you're probably not going to get it again um and and she she says that you know that's that's the way to deal with that although it's frightening for parents when a child's gasping but I I never used to I never used to go I never got any inhalers and I don't really remember like two or three nights where I got it in bed or something like that and hay fever just really severe hay fever every year and now since going carnivore I have to look at other people you know to find out whether it's hay fever season I see people sneezing they're like oh yeah there you go you know and I I don't have that anymore but I think little little things like that of the of the immune system just not functioning correctly in early life is is a warning sign that that you know your child or whatever might be prone to autoimmune issues so to keep them at a more strict like my son Peter he's he's uh it just ate and you know he looks amazing he's he's mixed race just beautiful frizzy hair and just so he looks like a little bodybuilder he's fantastic his body is incredible so uh it's dense and solid and I think we might have chatted about that on the other podcast but he's so heavy but no fat you know and he's basically he's just been breast milk and me and that's it and uh you know we brought him up like that and he's amazing but early on he was prone to he probably had some my genetics or whatever and had some uh eczema and some asthma but the stricter that we keep him um the more that that that just disappears and he doesn't have any of that now but he was sort of he he you'd give him like half an apple or something peeled we gave him bits of fruit sometimes and and his cheeks would start weeping with the eczema you know just from that but without um a bit of chocolate wouldn't do it to him but fruit would you know but fruit's so healthy around it it was amazing you know and then I just started putting it in their lunch boxes anyway just to stop the um you know the dinner ladies calling the social services that they just had me but he wouldn't eat it you know come back and go in a bin but I've even given up doing that now he just goes in with meat and that's it you know he's gone in with a load of fatty lamb burgers in a flask today and and that's the kind of thing he eats and and he loves it and he's great but yeah I think to spot those Trends early on is is really important because sometimes it can be a very slow process when I look back to um the early 90s and and I had a risk that was really bothering me um playing drums and it started to really bother me and and I'd have to sort of go up to the bar and put my Wrist in some ice you know and I was thinking it was a sprain or something like that and then they diagnosed it as kind box disease you know where the lunate bone crumbles sort of a vascular necrosis of the lunate Bones called convox disease and apparently the Looney bone crumbles away and after six months or so it's it's all sorted itself out and either you have not much problems or you lose the use of your wrist or whatever depending on how you built but luckily because it wasn't that it was just yeah another misdiagnosis and it probably was this psoriatic arthritis rearing its head early on because I had a little bit of sacroiliac problems you know in the gym like sort of eight years later or whatever and that often those arthritic conditions start in the in the sacroiliacs you know when somebody comes to me and says well I don't have much but I do have sciatica a lot and I have problems in the lower back and like down one buttock and the sacroiliac and that's always a warning sign for me because a lot of these um these sort of arthritic conditions can start in that but it got in the risk with me as well and it was it doesn't bother me now I've got most of the movement back there but you can see that it's you know it's lost the movement there and that was for years you know it's okay now there's no inflammation in it but it did do some damage in there I mean whatever's calcified in the in the ligaments and whatever maybe I should work a bit hard again moving back the other way but again they're moving back that way it's been fine for drumming I can still play you know fine but that that sort of thing that we don't those little Whispers that doctors just are not picking up on to me it would be damn obvious now you know I'd look at that somebody with hay fever somebody putting on weight somebody you know who has some sacroiac problems and then one joint's kicking off I'd go yeah you know it's pretty obvious what's happening here whether you put one of their labels on it where they call it rheumatoid psoriatic reactive all that thing it's the same process isn't it really you know you've eaten some crap you've done some things wrong and here's how to sort it out and that's it really you know nip these things in a bug nip them early yeah absolutely well I I definitely agree and um well I'm glad that you're you're back on on form you've put back on your way you back up to normal weight now or or where are you at now no no no yeah because I had some fats and the weight that isn't hasn't gone back on it's probably half the weight that I lost up my legs and you know I'm walking around now and I'm fine and I'm playing drums at gigs and whatever but yeah legs legs still needs some building up probably about another 10 pound would go on there if I built them up in which case I would have put back on about 25 of the 30 which which 25 of the 45s that are lost and so that would just leave the fat loss so that's fine by me so yeah I'm on track and and you know put back about 20 pounds since January and that's not fat so yeah our cab come out again it's better at the other side than I went in just with a knee that's a bit rickety it needs a bit of work you know but that took a bit of a beating but it was it had taken a beating 10 years ago anyway but when you think that I had it in probably like 30 joints you know raging and managed to get it out of all of them except too without any damage um you know the first time around the ankles were horrific I mean I thought they were just going to end up unusable and now I I can't imagine I had ever had anything wrong with them you know I got it all out of that completely but yeah one knee and one wrist has taken a bit of a hammering over the decades but um no no inflammation I'm fine now I'd probably you know I can't be bothered with another blood test but I'm you know only when I really need them do I really need them but I'd like to snap my fingers and see my CRP now it's probably fine judging about how I feel it's it's probably fine but uh yeah that was a on Fire Man definitely absolutely well I'm glad you're doing better I'm glad the weight's coming back on and your kids uh are helping you with uh the it assisted body weight squats or giving kid additional body weight squats um and yeah and look with that Phil uh it's been an absolute pleasure it's great to see you as always uh where can people find you and reach out and see your stuff uh well you know I got lots of stuff going on at the moment and you know do consults if anybody wants you know I mean Anthony's way ahead here are all the science and all the medical knowledge but if you want to chat to somebody who's actually been through it now the other side twice then I've got some pretty good tips and tricks um but uh yeah it's I'll put my link tree underneath that's got most of the things but one of the things that um I'd really like to to make people aware of is is what we're doing with the big fat Challenge and we've had everything recorded with like all of the 90-day uh 90 days of coaching calls an hour a day on the big fat challenge they're all there you can see how all these people are improving we've got you know one guy doing beautifully with coming off his heart and diabetic meds and lovely stuff like that and all sorts of people losing weight as they go along and me putting the weight on I was going the opposite way to everybody else and um you know we've got to challenges each week of different things to clean up from your diet and and in your environment and whatever and all kinds of stuff um all sorts of extras and extra courses and books and we've got our red pill food Revolution book coming out which all right honestly I think is just about the it's it's ill credit to Ben I mean four of us were on it and and we we sort of did Zoom calls on each chapter and but Ben put the words together and honestly I think it's it because Ben put it together I can say that but it's he's a beautiful writer and he has done the most incredible job and it's one I think one of the best probably the best thing of the history of our diet and how it's all gone wrong and how we've been fooled by the elites and into plant-based diets and through religion and all of this nonsense and corrupt studies and you know it's not a full-on carnival book although that's you know obviously uh um approved of but it is really what's happened to our diet and that kind of thing and so you get that and it's not even out yet and so you get that at PDF and audio book actually I sent you a link to the audiobook have a listen tell me what you think I've said it a while ago I I think you've got access to the folder but it's Ben's done it on audiobook now and um it's really good the comments we've had back on it are amazing and we do it to pay what you can afford so you know you can get it I think we put it up for 99 away but like you know nineteen dollars you can get that's that's probably the same as the book when it comes out you get all the other things but anyway we do that in the big fat tribe we still carry on with the cause if anybody needs some support I know a lot of people they can go into carnivorian they're fine they know what to do and that's cool and well done if you fancy coming on uh there we go that's uh www.thebigfatchallenge.com and that's what we're doing great we'll put that in the uh in the links below as well as your link tree and so people can find you there and uh I hope they do Bill great to see you as always you too man thanks so much for having me on no problem good to see you hey guys thank you very much for taking the time out to listen to what I had to say if you like it then please like And subscribe to my YouTube channel and podcasts and if you're on YouTube then please hit that little bell and subscribe and that'll let you know anytime I have a new video out which should be every week if not more and if you could share this with your friends that would help me get the word out and let me know that you like what I'm doing thanks again guys [Music] thank you