Omega-6 Apocalypse: Vegetable Oils, Obesity, and Chronic Disease

welcome to the plant free MD podcast with Dr Anthony chafee where we discuss diet and nutrition and how this affects health and chronic disease and show you how you can use this to optimize your health and happiness both mentally and physically hello everyone thanks again for joining me on another episode of the plant free MD podcast I'm your host Dr Anthony Chaffey and today I have a very special guest Dr Chris Kenobi who is an ophthalmologist and a nutritional researcher has published many many many studies on the field of nutrition and how food affects chronic Health chronic disease and health and has just published a recent book called The ancestral diet Revolution Dr mcmobile thank you so much for coming on it's been a pleasure or a pleasure for having you here oh thanks Anthony I appreciate you having me on it's my pleasure not a problem so uh for those who haven't come before you can't call me doctor though what's that you can't call me doctor though okay all right I don't let anybody call me Docker let alone other doctors yeah all right so um well Chris well thank you very much for coming on um Can for people who haven't come across your Talks on YouTube or your work can you tell us a bit about yourself and what you do yeah sure so I'm I'm a physician trained in an allopathic Medical School the University of Colorado School of Medicine I graduated 33 years ago um I uh eventually specialized in Ophthalmology and I spent about 24 years all total in Ophthalmology practice and uh actually left practice to pursue nutrition research back in February of 2015. but I really got into nutrition um I'll just make this brief because if anybody's ever heard me before they'll be sick of hearing this but but you know I really bought into nutrition out of my born out of my own suffering which for me was primarily arthritis and um but a a a change towards a paleo diet for me back in 2011 drastically improved my arthritis in a in a just a matter of a a week week to 10 days and um this was just life-changing for me Anthony and uh people sent me down a path of trying to learn about about nutrition and eventually came across the work of Western egg price in 2013. and then I began to understand that you know all processed foods refined flour sugars vegetable oils um all that were driving so much chronic disease and then I applied that or you know basically I theorized that or hypothesized that the same processed foods might be driving age-related macro degeneration AMD the leading cause of irreversible vision loss and blindness in people over the age of 50 now worldwide and so I I researched that for about a year and a half while I was still in practice and in February of 2015 I was so convinced that that theory that hypothesis held water that I left practice and pursued that full time and um we within a small group we we evaluated sugar and vegetable oil consumption data which is basically tracking processed food but we evaluated those components in 25 Nations and every single nation the data supported the hypothesis that as the processed foods went up especially the vegetable oils that the macro degeneration went up it's macular lead generation prevalence went up you know precisely in correlation and so we published a paper on on that in 2017 I published a book started a non-profit foundation and but by 2018 and 2019 I just was um seeing Anthony that there was so much evidence about the vegetable oils writing obesity and heart disease cancers and diabetes and chronic disease that and I just felt like it wasn't being covered that well and so that's kind of when I went public with that as well which is in 2019 and began to present on that and and talk about more about vegetable Wells and the big picture of all of this chronic disease and so that's sort of where my life has been focused in the last four or five years really is mostly about vegetable oils and and chronic disease yeah and then your your book is is sort of a master class on that and talking about all the different sorts of ways that that vegetable oils can impact our health and in fact how you know they might be in the major driver in in these you know so-called chronic diseases which you know I absolutely agree I don't think they're diseases at all I think this is the exposure relationship we're clearly eating something exposing ourselves to something that is not natural is not supposed to be there and our bodies are responding in in some sort of deranged Manner and we're calling them these these various diseases and just saying oh it's just this it's just one of those things but if it was just one of those things then it wouldn't you know continue to increase in prevalence decade after decade after decade so obviously there's something going on and we're getting more and more exposed to this um so in that book you you talk about all the different strong indicators and correlations between seed oils and various diseases obesity diabetes and so on can you take us through a bit of that and I believe you have a slide presentation as well if you wanted to go into that as well yeah sure um so well let me just say with you know if we look at the big picture first um that through through all of history up through the middle of the 19th century there was precious little vegetable oils in uh in the food supply for any population it's a tiny tiny amounts of coconut oil palm oil sesame oil these are very small amounts and olive oil all going back um thousands of years uh but the enormous majority of the world over I I would estimate over 95 percent through the uh up through the Amer the end of the American Civil War 1865 had never ever had a vegetable oil of any type they'd never consumed it and I've worked really hard to fit to to look at that evidence look uh historically and so that's the conclusion and we're just about to publish a paper on this that will include this information and um so so basically the you know in the United States cottonseed oil was the first vegetable oil in fact if you were to use the term vegetable oil in 1865 uh most anywhere in the world no one would have done what they would have known what you're talking about they never heard that term because there's wasn't there isn't such a thing really into this day there isn't really a vegetable oil I mean they don't come from vegetables right and but they but cottonseed oil was introduced right after the American Civil War so 1866 essentially and then in 1909 we got soybean oil and and then we got all the others so we've got soybean today we've got soybean of the let me let me back up and restate this so of the high lead polyunsaturated seed oils which are the most dangerous so this is my list of the worst of the worst would be soybean corn canola cottonseed rapeseed grape seed sunflower safflower rice bran Sesame and peanut oils and these oils are all very high in omega-6 and so if you looked at Americans just to give you the data in 1865 we had almost precisely zero vegetable oil consumption all we would have had was just trivial amounts of olive oil and I mean trivial like a tiny fraction of a gram per person per day um in our in this nation in the United States and by 1909 we were up to about nine grams a day we look at some of this data and then by 1961 we're at 19 and a half grams a day and by 2010 80 grams of vegetable oil per day and so when I you know when I began looking at this well I first you know even before I had that data was looking at the evidence of the prevalence of chronic diseases in the 19th century for example and they're all virtually rare or they don't exist so coronary heart disease um an extreme medical Rarity Alzheimer's dementia you know unknown completely unknown age-related macro degeneration there were no cases in the United States that I know of there was a handful of cases around the world in the 19th century um again Alzheimer's wasn't diagnosed until 1908 um um you know obesity in the United States in the 19th centuries the only place in the world where I know we have really you know pretty good data and obesity in the United States and Men age 18 to 80 was 1.2 percent um and uh so so and of course now all of these things you know in the United States well in the world coronary heart disease is the leading cause of death cancer is the second leading cause of death it's the same in the United States um you know obesity went from 1.2 percent in the 19th century to 42 and a half percent in 2018 in the United States um you know and this is you know we again just with sticking with the big picture here is all of these things have tracked with vegetable oils now they track with processed foods but the major component of processed foods is vegetable oils and they're high in omega-6 and why is that problematic well because the omega-6s accumulate in our body fat and this sets up a pro-oxidative pro-inflammatory toxic and nutrient deficient biological milieu that is the is the perfect storm really to create obesity and chronic disease hey guys just want to take a second to thank our sponsor at carnivore bar I don't promote many products because honestly all you need to be healthy is to just eat meat for those times that you're out hiking road tripping or stuck at work and you want nutritious snack that is just meat fat and salt if you want it the carnival bar is a great option so I like this product not because it's just pure meat but also because I want the carnivore Market to thrive as well and the more we support meat only products the more meat only products there will be available in the mainstream so if this sounds like something you'd like to get behind check it out using my discount code Anthony to get 10 off which also applies to subscriptions giving you 25 off total all right thanks guys yeah and we were sort of talking about that you know before we came on here but you know there are those who argue that all these diseases were happening anyway we just didn't didn't notice them because anyone born before 1986 is an 88 and obviously can't see what's in front of them um but but of course they did keep quite good statistics you know from from the the studies that you've published the data it's actually quite robust isn't it what what were people looking at what were some of the disease rates uh in the 1800s what you know you said that the really heart disease really wasn't uh on wasn't described until the early 1900s at all and I I think I remember you seeing sorry go on well it was Anthony but it was rare so yeah like in the 19th century there's eight papers on coronary heart disease for the entire Century eight and two of those were on thrombotic coronary heart disease which would be the equivalent of myocardial infarction right heart attack so eight I I mean I don't really know what the number of papers is there's probably been eight papers published on coronary heart disease yesterday yeah uh right uh you know um I don't know how many you know tens of thousands uh or hundreds of thousands of papers would relate to coronary heart disease like it would just be staggering wouldn't it I mean you know you could fill train loads full of paper you know papers that are related to coronary heart disease today right and uh but why because because it's it was so incredibly rare look you know um the most famous physician perhaps in the world but at least in the United States was Sir William Osler um he published uh these you know famous medical textbooks principles and practice of medicine his first textbook came out in 1893 and um he made it very clear he'd never witnessed a heart attack um he witnessed about six cases of angina uh chest pain that might be related to coronary heart disease might he'd noticed about six cases in the previous um 20 um I think it was 21 years of his practice um he said it was a very rare disease in hospitals uh angina and and then in 1908 I believe it was um he gave a presentation in London England to other positions and he had noticed an additional 208 cases of angina between 1897 and 1908. and he was and he he related that potentially to the increasing stresses of Modern Life is what he said and what he didn't realize was the thing that was going up was the vegetable oils that's the that's the thing that had been introduced in the United States in 1866 and at this you know you know shortly later in the United Kingdom and then from you know from those two some of Europe was getting best of oils that were coming from ultimately most of it coming from the US but anyway that's what was going on first the first documented heart attack in the United States was in 1912 James Herrick physician published a paper um first documented heart attack with autopsy evidence nobody even took it seriously it was virtually just you know swept under the rug nobody cared at all because it was nobody knew what it was they you know they did they weren't aware of such a thing as a heart attack um a myocardial infarction and so it was about almost 10 years went by before there was any recognition that the paper was of any interest and it was because they were starting to see some other heart attacks in the 1920s and um and then and it's just uh astoundingly by the 1930s coronary heart disease became the leading cause of death in the United States I mean I think it was only responsible for eight or ten percent of the deaths if it was even that I'm not sure I don't I really don't know that number Anthony but so I shouldn't I shouldn't spit that out but it was the leading cause of death but yet in 1910 coronary heart disease was unknown completely unknown 20 years earlier and so this is what astounds me because by the 1950s as you know as The Story Goes and and everybody's all heard this that a million times probably that people began to vilify saturated fat for the cause of heart disease or at least it was it was um implicated in the 1950s and then by the 1960s you know the American Heart Association Along with Ansel Keys had they they had posited that saturated fat was the cause of coronary heart disease and so you know we've had you know we've a period of at least probably 45 50 years where people have been led to believe that it's saturated fat but but that you know in the in the 19 in the 20th century saturated fat or like changed at all we could look at I think I've got that data handy here but you see it hardly changed at all while pregnant heart disease just went you know just went from nothing in 1900 to and remained the leading cause of death from 1930s to today and so um but anyway yeah so that it's been a really strong parallel with vegetable oils and there's no relation to saturated fat which has remained flat over the I mean since 1900 saturated fat between 1900 and 2010 saturated fat increased about five grams so roughly a teaspoon worth of fat yeah yeah yeah if people would have looked at our graph and I've got it here you know people would have looked at this graph if you want me to share it I could do that right now yeah um so let me go here we'll share screen um change graphs here so so if people look at this they'll uh is that visible there Anthony okay yeah I can see it fine okay so people see it can those who can see this crap they'll see that the the vegetable oils are in the black and you see this increasing consumption from 1900 all the way through 2010 they never stop increasing really um uh well I guess on this graph we don't have uh it ends at 2020 so it doesn't you can see but where it ends in 2010 on the vegetable oil you can see that's still on the increase and the saturated fat in the purple is virtually you know pretty much flat but the heart disease in red you know that parallels uh almost precisely parallels the vegetable oil consumption yeah and you know some people have looked at this and they said well you know the way this graph looks it looks like the coronary heart disease is causing the vegetable oil consumption because it's higher but you you can you can change the axis of the the and we'll we should do this really but you can change the the numbers on either axis to make those right the line go up or down but the relationship is still identical so you can't change the relationship so so I mean we could make the vegetable oils look like they're bigger is my point um but this was our first graph published back in our paper relating to macular degeneration back in 2017 so I used this one yeah and you know and that's something too you have heart disease uh deaths as well and that that just sort of dipped down but as I understand it that's that's mostly with our interventions improving with standing and bypass surgery and things like that and early uh or you know flagging you know seeing something with angina and being able to treat them early and not have them uh you know progress on to to having a full-blown heart attack but as I understand the rates and prevalence of heart diseases is continuing to rise as well certainly on a global scale is it is it absolutely is yeah and you're and you're absolutely right I do think that the the the procedures may be saving lives but the the number one reason that fewer people are dying of coronary heart disease is because smoking prevalence has gone way down yeah that's the number one reason at least in the United States and in the United and in the United Kingdom so both have very high prevalence of smoking um in the United Kingdom smoking prevalence was like 78 uh I think it was in in 1948 roughly those are rough numbers but that's pretty pretty close so and it was pretty hot it was pretty close to you know I think it was over 50 percent in the United States around that time yeah so yeah since the smoking's gone way down and that then that's been a big benefit in terms of coronary heart disease yeah absolutely and you know just looking at these these charts I mean there's like you say there's absolutely no relationship between saturated fat and heart disease you know deaths or prevalence you know because it you're just you're keeping roughly the same saturated fat was is nearly as high in uh you know 1910 as it is now and yet right heart disease it wasn't really wasn't really heard of it was it was a little-known thing or actually not known in America yeah I don't know if you will agree with this but I said before that if if this graph would have been published in 1960 um in a scientific paper I I don't know how anyone could have ever argued that saturated fat was the cause of heart disease yeah it's I mean I just don't know how you could make that case because yeah you know if you correlation is not causation but you have to have correlation in order to prove causation yeah right and you don't have correlation here between saturated fat and heart disease there's just no relationship here yeah exactly and and the uh Journal American College of Cardiology published I believe in 2020 a large paper you know uh reviewing uh all the different sorts of you know studies and rcts and meta-analyzes on saturated fat and heart disease and they found no link they found absolutely no connection or correlation between saturated fat and heart disease and in fact they found an inverse correlation between saturated fat and stroke rates so if anything the data is showing that that saturated fat is good for you doesn't cause heart disease doesn't contribute to heart disease and if that can protect you against uh stroke and potentially other diseases as well absolutely yeah I think you know the the healthiest fat there is is to me is saturated fat um I mean we we require the polyunsaturated fats they're essential fatty acids so those are a must in terms of survival but but you you can't you can't not get them it if you eat food um they're in all foods the the polyunsaturated fats the omega-6 linoleic acid and omega-3 alpha linoleenic acid so so la and ala respectively and those are in all foods that are not prepared in a lab where you've extracted all of the fat so anything you can think of that you could eat I don't care if it's apples or oranges or white rice whatever is going to have fat and it will have linoleic acid omega-6 linoleic acid and omega-3 alpha linolenic acid you will you'll get your essential fatty acids but beyond that I'm just saying that I think that the you know saturated fat monounsaturated fat both extraordinarily healthy and this is why I make a point in the book that that you know when if we over consume carbohydrates and you you filled up all your your glycogen stores and you need to store those those carbohydrates beyond your glycogen stores you'll that your body first and preferentially makes uh saturated fat and then monounsaturated fat so that tells me man that's what the body really is you know might be even preferent preferential in terms of uh storage and and burning and saturated fat yeah absolutely so but yeah go ahead Anthony no I was just gonna I was just gonna ask so so that's how a vegetable oil relates to heart disease what about other other diseases as well and and you go into uh in some of your talks about obesity and the link between seed oils and obesity as well okay yeah let's let's uh hit that real quick if I could I'm gonna I'm gonna share this slide before we go into the vegetables versus obesity sure um because this is the really we're at the 50 000 foot view here but I want to show that you know the problem is processed food and processed food is really uh four things to me four fundamental components and it's refined flowers refined sugars vegetable oils and trans fat and if you look at this uh uh graph um can you see that okay Anthony okay so um you can see in in the year 1865 and this is also uh set to be published here just to hopefully in the next couple of weeks um the uh the you can see the plant and animal Foods in the United States accounted for 96 of the diet only four percent of the diet was really processed and that was sugar refined sugar but by 2009 you can see that 63 of the American diet was Ultra processed food essentially that's seed oil sugars refined grains and trans fats and the other 37 percent came from plants and animals so we went from 96 percent plant and animal diet in 1865 to 37 plant and animal and a lot of that even that 37 percent that's not that is not really good quality uh ancestrally raised Foods the bulk of that is you know for example kfo raised uh animals uh and which are concentrated animal feeding operations where they're fed great you know like GMO corn and soy and uh even the plants of course there's problems with those too because of herbicides pesticides and and uh you know just the fact that they're a lot of those are GMO none of which existed in 1865 right every everything in in the 19th century and early 20th century was all entirely ancestrally raised and all of the plants even would have been organic right so so I just want to hit that real quick but we'll move on here too so you'd ask about obesity and uh vegetable oil so I'll just show this first let me pause this just for a second and um and we'll look at obesity um in the United States so here we go so this is what I think a lot of people don't recognize is that obesity as I mentioned earlier already was 1.2 percent in the United States in the 19th century back at 1900. that was Scott Allen Carson's work that was man age 18 to 80. so there was no data on women but men age 18 to 80 um uh 1.2 percent obesity and then there's no more data until 1960 when obesity was 13.4 percent in the U.S but the point of this is that a lot of people have looked at dot you know diet versus obesity and they said well all the problems started in 1980 when um we were told to go low fat right saturated fats problem and then it became fast the problem we need to go low fat and so and that's what we would admonish to do by our own government and and so then obesity really took off which it did but what I wanted to see what I want to show here is that just between 1900 and 1960 obesity had risen 11 fold it went from 1.2 to 13.4 so the problem was in place essentially and then it's just skyrocketed ever since so so let's look at um if we we'll move forward here and we can look at the relationship between um obesity and vegetable oils and for those who can see this graph you can see that um there's this striking correlation between obesity and vegetable oil consumption you know all the way from the 1900s all the way through to the through the end of this graph where obesity is 42.5 in 2018 um when our vegetable oil consumption in by 2010 was 80 grams a day and if I if I work backwards here in 1900 it was about one gram a day and then in 1960 um 1961 uh vegetable oil consumption was 19 and a half grams a day and again by 2010 it was 80 grams a day right so and by the way Americans consume more vegetable oil per capita than any nation in the world and so what we can throw in um the uh sugar here so here's the graph on sugar it I mean along with vegetable oils and you can see that the sugar consumption was already by uh by 1890 sugar consumption was um got the data here now I'm going to read this because that's not on the slide but I've got data handy here on this but in 1890 sugar consumption was 211 calories per day that was already um 10.8 percent of calories and by 19 uh 35 sugar consumption was 440 calories a day which is 22 and a half percent of U.S caloric intake and but look obesity was around maybe three to four percent at that time and we know that diabetes in 1935 was 0.37 we can come back to that we know that you know everything was in coronary heart disease had become the leading cause of death but everything almost everything else obesity diabetes metabolic syndrome metabolic Center was virtually unknown um um Alzheimer's was the still very rare at that point um macro degeneration was just coming on the radar um it had been an extraordinary Rarity through the night through 1930 um but anyway you can see that there's this this striking correlation between obesity and the vegetable oils but very little relationship between sugar and obesity in fact in 1935 as I mentioned sugar was 440 calories 22 and a half percent of U.S caloric intake but by 2016 sugar was only five not only but was 526 calories and that's 24 of U.S caloric intake so between 1935 and 2016 sugar consumption as a percentage of the diet went up one and a half percent and as an absolute number it went up 86 calories and yet we've had this explosion of you know obesity probably went from three to four percent in 1935 to 42 and a half percent in um 2018 right and um so there's just ex just almost no correlation here uh with sugar and as we could see later even a negative correlation so it would go to to uh this graph let's see um uh um no this is not really the one let's see here we'll go to this one so this one you can see that [Music] um very recently between this is just between 1999 and 2018 that um sugar has been on the downward Trend since at least 2004. Sugar's been going down it's by some data 1999 but at least by 2004 sugar has been on the decline but between 1999 uh and 2018 obesity climbed from 30.5 percent to 42 and a half percent so while the sugar is going down the Obesity is going up and um but what's what's going up in correlation with and it's the vegetable oils and you can see this is a this is severe obesity um same time frame between 1999 and 2018. obesity so was or severe obesity was 4.7 in 1999 9.2 in 2018 but again while the sugar is on the decline um so um would that include high fructose corn syrup or or just yes oh I'm glad you asked yeah so so the sugars um that this is all sugar um and this is the the same date we use the exact same definition that the food and agriculture organization of the United Nations FAO would use and the same that the World Health Organization would use which is um table sugar cane sugar beet sugar corn syrup high fructose corn syrup maple syrup sugar sweetened beverages um and honey so it's every form of added sugar there is right so when people look at this wait a second well he didn't leave you know he didn't put like for some reason people think that I'm trying to defend sugar here yeah and that's not my point I've been saying since 2016 everything I've written and everything I've ever said since I started going public with this I've always said the problem is processed food and that Sugar refined flowers vegetable oils and trans fats sugar is part of the problem it's a nutrient deficient food but this data is data and the data shows here and in multiple other countries that as sugar is going down the the Obesity and the diabetes and the metabolic syndrome is going through the roof even worse and um you know so you have to you need to account for that um so I'm not trying to defend sugar it's part of the problem but what I'm just trying to look at the the whole picture here for those people who think it's all you know just about carbohydrates this is so this is um data showing in the United States showing that carbohydrates since 1997 through 2013 declined in the United States but during that same time frame from about 1997 through 2013 obesity climbed from about 29 to about 38 percent so so yeah okay so Sugar's been going down carbohydrates have been going down and I don't have the graph here handy but but there's another there's we've also seen since 2002 in the U.S the calories are going down while obesity and diabetes go through the roof yeah very interesting yeah and so this is so show this one this is um let me reframe this a little bit Anthony um so this shows um sugar and vegetable oil consumption versus diabetes um going all the way back to the 19th century um and and again you can see here that um I'm just gonna point out so diabetes was .0028 that's 2.8 for a hundred thousand people that is it in in 1890 that was reported by Sir William Osler in his first textbook of 1893 he quoted the census um and so that was that accounted that was a uh or equates to about 1700 some people in the entire United States and the population was I think 63 million that had diabetes in 1890. and yet remember in 1890 sugar consumption was already 10.8 of the calories right and if if it's 10.8 on average you know a lot of people are consuming twice that much right because a lot you know a lot are consuming none and a lot are considering twice as much and yet diabetes was just extraordinarily rare because if I jump all the way forward to the end of this graph diabetes in 2016 I believe it was 13 in the U.S well just so I give you the number that's an increase from 1890 of 4 643 fold Jesus um that it's increased but the important thing to recognize here again is that if we look at 1935 I keep using that number because that's when sugar consumption was 440 calories um 22 and a half percent of U.S caloric intake and look what the diabetes prevalence was 0.37 so between eight uh I'm sorry between 1935 and 2016 um diabetes prevalence went up from 0.37 to 13 but the sugar went up an absolute number of 1.5 percent or again 86 calories so are you going to tell me five teaspoons of sugar is all the problem with the Obesity with the um diabetes with metabolic syndrome with Alzheimer's with dementia you know macro degeneration you name it are we going to blame it on one and a half and one and a half percent of our diet increasing in terms of sugar and a total of 86 calories or or was it the fact that now let me give you this number so because I haven't done this yet but the vegetable oil consumption in in 1935 was 146 calories um that was seven and a half percent of our consumption of our total caloric consumption all right but by 2016 vegetable consumption was 716 calories per day 29 percent of caloric consumption so so while sugar went up during that period 1935 to 2016 went up one and a half percent as an absolute number of our total calories vegetable oil consumption went up 21 and a half percent in other words vegetable oil consumption in that time frame took up now takes up more than a fifth an additional fifth of every plate of food that it didn't take up in 1935. no that is staggering again a vegetable consumption today is you know 32 percent of U.S caloric intake before losses I know there's lots and lots and lots of numbers but but that's almost a third of our calories now if you count for losses they're probably the lowest we're consuming is 24 percent so we're consuming somewhere between a fourth and a third of our diet um with I'm going to stop this share or pause that but uh uh but anyway up a fourth two-third of our diet is vegetable oils and in in and this is another way to think about this Anthony so in 1900 99 of all added fats came from animal fat large butter and beef towel but by 2005 86 of all added fats came from vegetable oils so the vegetables have almost completely supplanted and replaced animal fats in terms of our added fat in our diet and that to me this is the you know by Far and Away the the primary problem in all of this you know these this this pandemic of obesity and chronic disease yeah well absolutely and I think the the great thing is too you know um uh that I'm just sort of using my imagination and putting my own graph adding on to this is that you you can't blame it on meat and saturated fat anyway we know saturated fat is stay pretty consistent and in fact we've dropped our red meat consumption in America by over one-third since the 1970s until today so you know and and during that time you have this exponential growth in in diabetes and and other sorts of disease prevalences you know and they're blaming this on meat they're saying go more plant-based go more everything which is you know I think you know I as long as people are getting away from processed foods I mean I don't really care what they eat you know but it's um it's you know blaming blaming meat and things like that when that has gone down clearly gone down and you know just like sugar and everything else is coming up you know it's it's very hard for people to argue that uh when they actually look at the data but for some reason they they keep doing it you mean so are you still seeing lots of people blaming meat oh yeah yeah he's trying to okay let's defend meat here for a second yeah um if that's okay with you yeah oh please do okay this is uh you here's a graph on U.S total meat consumption between 1800 and 2007 and this comes from all published data so this is in this is in our new book um The ancestral diet Revolution and you can see that this is uh for those who can see it there's total meat consumption it doesn't look like it's changed on on this screen oh I'm sorry oh there we go are we on now yeah yeah U.S total me okay yeah okay there we go sorry about that all right so total meat consumption back around 1800s roughly probably around 220 pounds per person per day so these are um oh I'm sorry this was converted to grams per capita per day on this one um so um but anyway it's whatever that is 200 and some grams per day but the important thing is to notice that the meat consumption was you know in in the uh 19th century 1800 to 1900 you can see was actually declining but again that entire century is where coronary heart disease was unknown right and in 1912 as meat consumption begins to Kit you know it's close to its Nader the lowest point um is when the first documented heart attack was 1912 and then you can see in the 1930s is right about the same time that meat consumption hit its Nader in the last 200 years its lowest point of consumption is when coronary heart disease became the leading cause of death and then meat consumption went back up so you can see it's a U-shaped curve so now we're back up to meat consumption that's um about as high or a little higher than it was in 1800 [Music] um so but coronary heart disease has as I've mentioned already twice before is has been the leading cause of death in the U.S since the 1930s right in fact it increased a lot um but but again in parallel to the meat to the vegetable oil consumption um so again that you have absolutely no correlation here between meat consumption and heart disease again that would absolutely make no sense whatsoever when when we had very high meat consumption in the in the 19th century and early 19th century especially and coronary heart disease unknown yeah no it's completely unrelated yeah and um yeah well that's that's fantastic um it's you know when you look at these sorts of data points you know I I think it's very clear you know there isn't a relationship there there's not a correlation but you know people people have just been pushing this for so many years I think they're just they're just uh so used to it and they just sort of keep keep driving try to drive those those uh points home and because people haven't haven't been exposed to the data as much you know just just to lay people uh but because you'll know they just repeat this we will know meat's bad for you Fat's bad for you so they just sort of keep repeating that and I think it's very important to show uh data like this and show that uh that this has absolutely nothing to do with it and then show okay what is what is the more likely culprit here Ultra processed foods clearly though that that's directly related uh to these these uh diseases increasing um one one thing I've seen you speak about as well is uh the damage that these seed oils cause to the mitochondria and that's something that is becoming more and more obvious now that that a lot of these chronic diseases are driven by mitochondrial uh damage and uh disruption so could you uh talk a bit about that yeah absolutely um so so let me talk about why why how we get there first and then the mitochondrial damage um and I might show um a slide here so I'm going to show two slides to try to answer this okay um the first is that I'm going to show you that we the col consumption is dangerous because it's very high in omega-6 and um so the um for comparison the seed oil as I mentioned like from canola oil all the way up to which is around 20 omega-6 linoleic acid and then you've got soybean oil at a at 54 to 56 omega-6 linoleic acid and then safflower oil I think is around 78 so that's kind of the gamut you know of all those that's where those oils run and if you contrast that to um naturally raised animals in other words animals again not fed corn and soy we can get into the details of that but those but those animals beef you know cattle um even chicken and pigs they all will produce a body fat omega-6 La of around two to two and a half percent if they're fed the right thing all right and so that's what you know that's what the whole world was consuming until we until we you know for added fats primarily the only other thing they had for most of all of almost all of history through the 19th century was olive oil and olive oil is around averages around 10 omega-6 linoleic acid but it runs a gamut from about three percent to about 22 percent and so I'm trying to get people a perspective here that this the vegetable oils when you when you put those in your diet in in place of anything else you're increasing your omega-6 consumption and um that omega-6 I'm going to share that here um is we've we've shown this to have increased dramatically um around 11 um 11 fold since 1865. so this graph shows and is that showing for you Anthony yeah so this graph shows um that we modeled the diets of Americans in 1865. and what they were consumed based on you know based on a completely ancestral diet and everything they were consuming um beef pork chicken they didn't consume a lot of chickens very small in that but chicken eggs um Dairy you know milk cheese and then there there it was very high in grains and potatoes all that anyway the consumption of omega-6 is about 2.2 to 2.6 grams a day so the average is about 2.4 grams 1.1 percent of calories you can see by by 1909 we're at 2.23 of our calories as omega-6 by 1999 7.21 of our calories is omega-6 in 2008 11.8 percent or 29 grams a day so we went from about 2.4 grams of omega-6 in 1865 to 29 grams in 2008 so we went from 1.1 percent of calories to 11.8 percent roughly you know it's an 11-fold increase in our omega-6 consumption and so what does that do to us well it turns out that let me reframe this this graph here that we accumulate um the uh omega-6s in our body fat and this is a this is a graph from Stefan DNA this shows the percent of linoleic acid in our adipose our body fat um and this is a collation of 37 or 38 studies um between 1959 and 2008 and you can see that our body fat omega-6 linoleic acid was average 9.1 percent in 1959 and 21.5 in 2008 so again this precisely parallels the increase in the vegetable oils so we're accumulating these in our body fat and as I mentioned early on this sets up a pro oxidative pro-inflammatory toxic and nutrient deficient environment but so so but you'd ask about so mitochondrial dysfunction and Seed oils and there there's a number of ways that processed foods and vegetable oils get us there um but the primary way I believe is that when you accumulate omega-6 in your body and in your body fat that also means it's accumulating again all of your cell membranes and in your inner mitochondrial membranes and um there's a couple of different mechanisms here but I'll just mention one of these is that when the omega-6 accumulates in the inner mitochondrial membrane it causes um changes to the conformation of that membrane that results in pores um and those pores allow hydrogen protons that are supposed to be built up as a gradient inside that inner mitochondrial membrane um and it allows those hydrogen protons to leak through that membrane well those hydrogen protons are meant to provide the energy to phosphor phosphorylate ADP adenosine diphosphate ATP adenosine triphosphate ATP is of the Androgen currency of the cell and we lose that we lose that power and with with this High omega-6 diet and this has all been proven um and and so so when you lose power then all of a sudden I mean this is the electron transport chain we're talking about this is primarily this is the major place where energy production occurs and so when the cell loses energy like this I just tell people it just the cell is sick and when the cell becomes sick well the first thing that happens is is increased reactive oxygen species um which actually feeds the cycle and then the next step is that the cell becomes insulin resistant and the cell becomes insulin resistant because it can no longer properly uh process food for fuel and it can no longer you can't properly burn fat for fuel any longer because you've devastated the electron transport chain and so this is where I believe that that that now the cell just begins to um store energy in the form of lipid and a lot of that lipid is this omega-6 right and so but the cell cannot properly burn fat for fuel and I think this is where this is why we see this part of the reason that we see um extreme morbid obesity is in in people that don't even eat a lot of food they probably a lot of some of these people I believe Anthony eat less than you and I do and they become extraordinarily obese because they're there's this they don't have they don't have good energy but they have a fat partitioning because they can't properly burn fat for fuel any longer when they've devastated uh the mitochondrial function so you get mitochondrial dysfunction and again that leads to insulin resistance and when you're when and the at the cellular level and the cell is a microcosm of the entire body so the whole body becomes essentially becomes insulin resistant and as that process goes on then you know your your blood sugars tend to go up and eventually in your your pancreas and is pumping out more insulin on the trainer push the glucose into cells but the cells are insulin resistant so you have this fight and um you know So eventually if this goes on for years and years the pancreas May sort of start giving up um it can't put out enough insulin any longer and that's when people become diabetic yeah but I hope I you know kind of answered what you were trying to get at and if that made I hope that made sense yeah definitely so do you think that's that's maybe one of the major drivers of disease then is that mitochondrial dysfunction or what do you think is is the main process here yes I do I think I think mitochondrial dysfunction is is what connects all chronic diseases virtually everything from and you can correct me if I'm wrong or anybody can and and I may be here but but because I can't remember all the list but I know that you know mitochondrial dysfunction is is important in obesity in diabetes in metabolic syndrome in congestive heart failure and you've we see it related to atherosclerosis you see it in age-related macro degeneration AMD you see it in Alzheimer's and Dementia uh you know I don't know what I'm leaving at cancer huge in cancer um uh uh you know so why are all these diseases connected by mitochondrial dysfunction and why are they all um why do they are they all characterized by insulin resistance and it's because of that this precise uh scenario that I just painted that you know this the primary mechanism I believe again is it's processed food driving all this but the primary problem is the omega-6 and then the rest of the processed food makes this worse because you know there's other situations that can drive insulin resistance you know if you're magnesium deficient that drives insulin resistance thiamin vitamin B1 deficiency can make you insulin resistant inflammation which is caused by processed food whereas insulin resistance cortisol going up which maybe you could argue is an effect but cortisol going up is related to insulin resistance and you know of course there's other things lack of sleep and stress and all that plays a role but you know we've got to get to the you know what are the huge factors and the and you know what we obviously see is I mean people have always had people in 19th century had stress and they had I guarantee you they had a uh you know lack of sleep they're overworked all those kind of things but they didn't have all these diseases but the thing that's changed is primarily is the diet and it's the vegetable oils again that are the by Far and Away the the biggest driver here in my view yeah absolutely well I I think you've made a very strong case for that and I think that you know people watching this you know just just more ammo in the bank you know like your your last chart showed actually eating quite a lot of meat early on in the early 1800s and and you know these diseases did not exist just did not exist right you know eating fat eating saturated fat eating a level amount of saturated fat throughout the 20th century and again you know not not related to any of these these sorts of diseases as well and I think that you know your your the title of your book is very very apt because it it goes back to our biology you know if we're if we're eating what we've been eating throughout our entire existence what we're biologically adapted and designed to eat then you know we should just be working fine and and we had these new and while we were doing that we did not have these diseases in nearly the prevalence that we have now whereas now they're they're the Mainstay of modern medicine and whereas they they didn't even exist 150 years ago in any real numbers technically agree and so it can't be that it can't be what we've been eating historically uh that's causing that as uh as one one person put it years ago you know how can diet cause a new disease right so I think right exactly yeah at new editions um you know as to that what what you conclude is the best diet appropriate the the ancestrally based diet what do you recommend for people well um you know I I spend a lot of my um my research and and even in my presentations I um I've tried to you know paint a number of a number of different diets that are all ancestral because and I I don't recommend any one of those diets necessarily uh you know um broadly I because obviously Americans are going to eat different than the Japanese and the Japanese are going to eat different than the Greek and so on and so on right and so I just I try to focus on the fact that that you know we all have an ancestral diet that may be more appropriate to us that we do we just if nothing else we just like it better um and that could be you know that you know for example as I've just mentioned in the 19th century for Americans we consumed um we were the probably the second most carnivorous population on the planet the number one most carnivorous population would have been the Inuit what people would event back then would have called Eskimos but the Inuit right because they they their diet was almost exclusively meat for around 11 probably around 11 months of the year um because they were living off of um steel meat and blubber whale meat blubber um Caribou reindeer um fish and then they get tiny amounts of berries um and and they would sometimes eat the contents of some of the caribou and reindeer that they that they had had killed so they'd get tiny tiny amounts of fruit or vegetable matter um throughout the year but yet they were they were very healthy this was shown by Villa motor stefans and um like for example they just had no cancer just had no cancer at all um couldn't find it in the in the eskimos that were living traditionally um but if we look at you know the 19th century Americans consumed lots of as you know besides their meat their milk their eggs they consumed in 1909 37 of the diet was grains and this is when we were fantastically healthy right now you can argue all about the grains you know all you want to um but the reality is is the grains that they had which were all organic and you could argue that they're they're um are you know artisan-like or what um um you know they were unchanged in terms of the um all of the uh hybridization and so forth um all of those things are true but the reality is is that they were consuming a lot of wheat corn um and some rice um so it anyway but again 37 that's that's comes from Tanya blasbog's research um so um again that was Americans ancestral diet and they did not have chronic disease and they didn't have obesity with that kind of diet um and of course you know that wouldn't apply to like the Japanese for example their diet for hundreds of years on Mainland Japan has mostly been white rice and fish with small amounts of vegetables and the okinawans their diet for the last four centuries has been based primarily on the sweet potato which was more than 80 percent of their consumption um and and and so they and they didn't have fish primarily they mostly consumed pork so their diet was most more than 80 percent sweet potatoes um um with pork and vegetables being the remainder and yet we all know the Japanese and the okinawans which is a subset of the Japanese they're one of the healthiest populations that's at least in in the um in terms of um uh developed Nations they were probably the healthiest population with the longest survival of any of any population there has been right and they had that when their diet was more than 80 carbohydrate you know coming from either white rice it was 84 carbohydrate in 1961. um and that was white rice on Mainland Japan and it was it was traditionally sweet potatoes for the okinawans but they gradually after 1950 after after World War II and American occupation um their the sweet potatoes and the okinawans were gradually supplanted by other things um and so they their sweet potato consumption has gone way down but it was it was their primary staple you know for like I said for about three three to four centuries probably four centuries we know we have the evidence that that's what they're that's what they lived off of primarily and so anyway I just look at all of these different populations and so whether it's you know 80 90 carbohydrate and there there's another population I've talked about before the the the Papua New Guinea Center that were more than 90 carbide carbohydrate and they were actually a very healthy population um or whether it's 66 at 66 animal fat like the Messiah Warriors of Kenya and Tanzania um who were also extremely healthy you know these are the you know the these are the the Polar Opposites really if you will and yet they're all healthy this is why I argue it's not about macronutrient ratios it just cannot possibly be about macronutrient ratios and I and I don't argue for any um level of macronutrient ratio for anyone I think that's a very individual maybe even a bio individual decision um um you know based on people's own desires and their own body and maybe their own Heritage or social you know Customs whatever um their their culture I think there's a lot of reasons you know that we have to respect um all of these kinds of diets um and and again but they all when they're healthy they all eliminate the same things there's they always eliminate the processed foods yeah yeah absolutely I I like the Inuit as an example um because you know they are quite healthy and there's you know some people try to to knock them because they'll say that well maybe they're not all that healthy and their heart disease rates are actually bad in fact in fact they're not you know obviously you know uh Dr Swanson found that they were extraordinarily healthy and in fact most of the literature shows so they're very very healthy a very very low rates of heart disease uh when they are eating a traditional you know meal and uh then you get people that find these studies that that don't separate out the two and they have people that are living in the cities eating their traditional processed food drinking alcohol and things like that and they're like oh well actually you know they there is this this uh prevalence of heart disease and that population but that's obviously uh misleading or it's intentionally misleading because they're you're not talking about the diet you're not talking about these people that are eating a carnivorous diet high fat diet um you're talking you're you're including people that are eating exactly the opposite and that's the whole point we're not talking about them as a you know a genetic you know subspecies subclass right we're talking about the diet and what I think is very interesting about that is because there are a lot of studies that that I've seen that look at the Inuit population and have quite low prevalence of heart disease even some of these things are mixed too maybe they're not just purely eating meat but just overall would be quite good and they start smoking on average at eight years old so there's a high smoking rate in the in really yeah yeah oh yeah it's just it's pretty crazy I didn't know that and so I saw one study I think it was in 1993 where they were looking at that I'm like okay there's heavy smokers start starter smoking from early age and they're eating a lot of saturated fat and meat they're not really eating any of the of the other things that we would think would be good for them so the the they posited that well maybe they have you know genetic uh conditions so they're they're much more resistant to heart disease so they looked at a number of different genetic factors and uh that would predispose or protect people from heart disease and uh they they figured that they would have all the protective uh genetic markers and in fact they had all the bad ones that all the ones that were that would actually redispose them for heart disease they were doing everything against what you would expect and so they just sort of concluded like well we don't know what's going on here maybe there's other genetic factors we don't know of or maybe these genetic factors are really not all they're cracked up to be and they just sort of left it at that instead of sort of wondering what else was going on um so I always I always find the Inuit interesting just because you can always argue that well maybe these other populations were eating X Y and Z but they knew what they just they weren't able to there's really like you say you know 11 months out of the Year especially up north what else is there to eat like it's meat yeah nothing else yeah yeah you know and I don't know if you've read westonet prices book nutrition and physical degeneration but he also uh found the Inuit to be extremely healthy consuming their native traditional diet so it's Stephenson did I keep hitting my mind here sorry um villamer Stevenson I'm pronouncing his name wrong Anthony but um but he he found them extraordinarily healthy and they just did not find cancer in their in in those people consuming their native traditional diet which is what price found everywhere um and um yeah I didn't realize they smoked so much but it's but it's interesting because like the the Pacific Islanders in general like the catavans for example they they smoke like crazy and when um staff in lindenberg uh evaluated them back in 92 or 93 the late staff in lindenberg um but he he uh lived among them for a while I think it was just really maybe just a few weeks um maybe six weeks or something but but uh but they but they had they were phenomenally healthy right they had no coronary heart disease no cancers no diabetes no obesity um and what was their diet you know their diet was much like the Toca allowances um it was a coconut fish starchy tubers and fruit primarily I think that's correct but anyway that of course they didn't have any processed foods um and they certainly didn't have any vegetable oils but but they smoked like I think 80 percent roughly if I remember right of them men and women it was I think even the women were higher than the men if I recall but their smoking was prevalence was extremely high they were daily smokers um and yet no heart disease no cancer they weren't getting lung cancer and these populations I don't see I don't see that they particularly ruled it out but I also don't see that they get COPD emphysema um right just even when they're smoking on their traditional diet um and Weston Price found something really similar with the uh with the uh the the populations the Scottish who were living in the outer Hebrides um they they lived in those smoked filled thatched roof uh um Huts or cabins or whatever it was cold it's cold there like the majority of the year and they would and they had no um they didn't have any chimneys so they just but they burned the the wood or whatever and just let the smoke Billow into their house into their home and yeah and they did they didn't have tuberculosis there was no they weren't getting lung cancer they weren't getting I mean I don't think you particularly said they don't have lung cancer but they certainly didn't have tuberculosis and I there just was no mention that they had lung cancer or emphysema it looked COPD um so but again you know their diet was mostly um seafood and oats but it protected them but all of these diets I just want to mention so all I've looked at you know all of these ancestral diets and if you look at the omega-6 consumptions so far they're all under all of them have seen that are completely ancestral they're under two percent of calories and Western westernized diets are now between five percent at the lowest to about 12 percent at the highest omega-6 linoleic acid and where does all that come from vegetable oil seed oils yeah that's crazy yeah and it's all just continues to go up you know this is what we've seen you know the United States led the way and then the UK followed and then then in Europe and then Australia and you know just kind of spread around the world Asia was the last to really follow this strand of increasing vegetable oil consumption but they have too so the Japanese the Chinese uh all of them all of them they every single Asian Nation as far as I know um has increased their their vegetable oil consumption um except I think but Vietnam has the the among the lowest consumption in the world um but they're vegetable oils and they also had at least recently had the lowest obesity in the world which was like I think it was somewhere around one percent range no yeah well that's crazy it's not an accident no I don't think so are you there yeah it's uh yeah you know and and we definitely do notice that you know every time we we sort of made these Trends in America and like you say UK followed suit but but every single country that's followed those dietary recommendations that they've just dropped like dominoes you know their their disease and obesity prevalence that just climbed up exactly like it has in America and and it just it's like clockwork so obviously it there's something going on there with what we're eating we're we're moving away from what we're designed to eat we're moving into eating things that literally didn't exist uh all that long ago and a lot of stuff I mean some of the stuff didn't even exist last year I mean like these impossible burgers and things like that I mean that's just that's just a chemistry experiment yeah it's like okay yeah absolutely yeah so yeah you know whatever food will stop at nothing to get to for a profit it's I mean it's I heard Sally of the western A price foundation uh many years ago she's she used the term that you know this is commodity what we have today is commodity Agriculture and I really didn't understand that what she meant by that and it took me a long time because I'm I'm a slow learner but but it took me a long time to understand that that you know it most of Agriculture and even of course big food none um almost none of it is is uh made to make us healthy it's made for profit these are Commodities and they're they're you know they're produced and sold you know with one primary goal in mind and that's to make money it's not about our health so big food manufacturers don't they're not interested in our health and this is what this is another reason so the the vegetables cost six times less to put in food than butter so so you can buy eight you can buy your 720 calories worth of soybean oil um if you're a big food manufacturer for 5.6 cents 720 calories worth that's a day's worth of food I use the term loosely in the United States um and they're buying it for 5.6 cents um whereas you know butter would cost them 36 Cents for that same amount of calories about 36 Cents um because and this was 2014 data so are they going to spend six times more on butter no that's going to cut way into their profit you know it's all about profit and this is why everywhere you look when you look at processed foods or restaurant Foods or fast foods they're all cooked in vegetable oil in the United States it's almost exclusively canola and soybean oil in in the restaurant and and fast food business yeah absolutely and yeah that was that was something it was a picture that went out from like I think was Goldman Sachs I believe it's called mid-sax Uh some sort of meeting that they had there and and on the presentation it said you know is is curing people's you know illnesses a sustainable business model you know it's just like or should we perpetuate this disease State and and sell the medications chronically for the rest of their life you know is that and so you know that that sort of made its round people were like okay well that's that's and uh and it is you know uh but it's like you you were talking about people's lives here and their and their health and their well-being and that of their children and parents and yet we're we're talking about this as as as if it's a commodity as if People's Health and their lives are Commodities which is which is truly sick and I think you've you've really really um you know have a have a diseased mentality when you start looking at people as Commodities and not caring about helping them or or just leaving them alone but actually profiting from their illnesses and selling things that are that I mean this is just just you know just these are just drug dealers you know you're selling somebody something that they enjoy and it hurts them and you know it hurts them but you make money so that's okay no it's not okay that's absolutely horrible and then right profiting off of you know the treatment of these chronic diseases instead of trying to help them not have the problem in the first place I just find that despicable yeah I uh read a statement from someone I I can't quote who they are but I can quote the statement this is from a number of years ago um and they said that there's only one industry in the world that has less concern for its customers than big than uh than the tobacco industry and that's big food industry um have less concern about their customers and it's it's really it's really pretty true you know that again they just it's their interest is not in our in our health um of course and the others there's thousands of good organizations in the United States alone that are good you know um Artisans you know farmers and you know regenerative Farmers um uh that are raising animals and raising crops right and that's where you know you can seek those out um uh um trying to think of the website uh I just went blank on him um eatwild.com eat wild.com is a great resource to go and find um ancestrally raised Foods in the United States I don't know if it works globally but it works really well in the United States so you can find if you want to write if you want to find for example you know chicken or pork beef that's ancestrally raised uh that's near you eat wild is a good source you can go there and look up you go to your state and then you go you know then start looking at what's available you know perhaps really close to you so you can even you know get to know your your farmer or your Rancher um the person providing your meat your milk eggs crops all of that you know produce if you want to um you can you can do quite a bit of that yeah fantastic so great yeah well that's great so um I you've been very generous with your time I don't want to uh to monopolize more of it but uh yeah thank you so much for coming on it's been absolute pleasure it's very very interesting uh can you tell us uh where people can find you and where to get your book yes so um again my name is Chris Kenobi k-n-o-b-b-e and um we I we have two non-profit foundations um ancestral Health Foundation um and that one does not have a website yet it's coming in the very near future um it'll be an ancestral healthfoundation.org we have another Foundation pure AMD Foundation that's that is uh present has been for years it's cureamd.org uh we have Facebook pages for both foundations Instagram for both foundations um and uh Twitter or both foundations I do have a Twitter handle I'm but I'm not I'm not really active on Twitter uh really um I should I'm sure I should be but I'm a little resistant to social media good um yeah so um but you know people have found a lot of my work on um just on YouTube a lot of my presentations and and podcasts like this um this is the book I don't know if you can see that there the ancestral diet Revolution and um it is available at Amazon Barnes and Noble books a million almost wherever books are sold um online that will it won't be in stores I don't believe but but it's available online and um yeah I guess it's primarily it yeah perfect great well well thank you so much Chris it's been an absolute pleasure and thank you very much for being so generous with your time I really do appreciate it well thank you Anthony I really appreciate you having me on your show it's really an honor and pleasure thank you not a problem and people please do go out and read the books an absolutely fantastic book it really does a deep dive into the science and literature I I uh I think there's over 1300 scientific references on it so this is a very very thoroughly researched and well thought out book so I I strongly encourage anyone uh to take a look at it so uh please do all right thank you very much everyone and thank you very much for watching and hopefully you found it interesting and I will see you guys next time hey guys thank you very much for taking the time out to listen to what I had to say if you like it then please like And subscribe to my YouTube channel and podcasts and if you're on YouTube then please hit that little bell and subscribe and that'll let you know anytime I have a new video out which should be every week if not more and if you could share this with your friends that would help me get the word out and let me know that you like what I'm doing thanks again guys foreign [Music]