New Interview and open discussion with Keto Kev the "Primal Bear"!

hey everybody dr anthony chafee here here with uh one of mine uh kev mason who's goes by keto kev he runs a couple uh keto and carnivore groups on facebook keto for health and kev's carnivore clan with a bunch of people trying to uh you know optimize their health and do that through the keto diet and carnivore diet uh kevin thanks for coming by yeah thanks very much for uh having a chat with me today really looking forward to it yeah yeah yeah so um like yeah like we said before um i run i run a couple of groups um it's got a few thousand it's got 16 000 people in it and but i like to push the kind of um animal based ketogenic way of you know ketogenic diet a little bit more than um say other people that like to add a little bit more plants and the reason why is because you know i was carnivore for a long time uh a couple well i'd say a long time about six or eight months um and i researched people like yourself you know and others and what they were saying about the damaging effects that plants can have and the more i looked into it the more i cut down on my plant intake because of what these were doing you know things like turmeric and garlic and stuff like that and i was recommending these things to people on keto and then i ended up opening a carnival group um certainly about four 400 450 people in it but um you know i'm just trying to get a bit more information from other people that are doing carnivore like yourself so that i can educate more people on different ways of doing things because you know there's there's the way that you do it yourself which is just you know like water meat and salt and then there's other people that kind of add a few little more bits into it so i'm really looking towards kind of what your what your views are on on these other little extra bits and why why is it a good way to go carnival really uh well i think you know anytime you're you're going to be eliminating things off going ketogenic or carnivore uh or anything in between where you're just you're just consciously cutting out things that are known to be harmful you're going to make improvements and so a lot of people can make you know you know step-wise progression and improvements along the way i i find that even a little bit even little bits of seasonings and so forth affect me um it won't necessarily affect me for that long but i notice it you know maybe 20 minutes or so later if so if if i'm at a restaurant they have some seasonings or a sauce on it and i sort of scrape off most of it but some of it stays on there um you know i'll notice like in 20 minutes you know my face will sort of get itchy my nose will get stuffy maybe my asthma sort of kicks up and i just feel a bit crummy you know not not hugely i don't feel horrible but i feel different and i don't feel you know perfect as i normally do and that bothers me and it goes away in maybe a couple hours uh because it's a very small amount and my body's pretty pretty tuned up but uh you know you can imagine you know if you're having a little more of that a little more that a little more that this sort of builds up builds up builds up and then your background is feeling a little crummy and you know and then you add on to it from there so that's why i do uh what i do it just just you know i don't find it appealing to put any sort of toxin in my body at all unless i'm getting something for it like drunk you know so and like you know even um even then you know i noticed that you know my workouts and my energy levels just don't recover for us for a full three weeks it's in the fourth week that i start feeling myself and yeah from just one night of drinking and not even getting too wasted i'm not like you know hungover the next day or anything like that and i feel fine as compared to you know my my past life when you know i was eating normal normal food but i don't i don't feel anything close to what i do now and so it you know just to go out drinking it has to be worth you know not feeling my best for a month with it so as you can imagine that's probably that's not always uh gonna gonna crop up so it's like less than once a year and so if it's like you know spices and seasonings and and different little pasta god forbid that's really not worth it to me that just doesn't get the bang for the buck that i'm looking for and so i just i would just rather feel you know fantastic all the time so that's my main approach and my main reasoning as to why i do that that's quite cool so like even even something small is like spices i'm the same with gluten so if we were to have something for example if i went to a restaurant and i said yeah i love the caesar salad or whatever apart from the fact that it's got all these you know highly processed seed oils and things like that that we want to avoid anyway um if if it had bread in i remember years and years and years ago when i went out with my wife and it came back with bread in it and she said i don't really want the bread and they picked it out of the salad and then brought the same one back to her because we found some bread in the bottom and i was like so even that kind of thing would affect my health and i come out and like i get itchy you know between my legs so badly that i scratch in the night when i'm asleep and it bleeds so that's how bad i'm yeah i do it so i totally understand what you're saying um and yeah like you you do want to be like that and that's so important to feel good especially you know now that we we um now that we're starting to know these things and more research is getting done on you know what these things affect our body um then it's it's really important for people like you know us you know like yourself and i to educate as many people as possible and let them know and then they can you know take their own you know do their own route and stuff like that so um that that's kind of important as well a lot of people say it's not sustainable i mean i um on t total for the last three years in fact three years this weekend it will be um and i would never touch a drop of alcohol again but mine is not just for my body mine is also because it was an emotional thing for me when i was in the army and when i came out i had a bit of a um you know a dive bomb in my life um so people are saying to me at the moment like in keto and carnivore they're saying well not drinking alcohol is not sustainable for everybody and i don't understand that because you know why is it not yeah so if you can give up grains if you can give up plants why can't you give up alcohol and i like your take on it you know you have to weigh up those those kind of things um so i'm also quite interested in in uh your take on like um a few things like what about dairy we know that dairy can can cause inflammation you know you know the a1 casein in the a2k scene depends on cows or goats cheese that you're having or cows or goats dairy but what's your take on dairy in general because i tell people that they should limit it on keto but avoid it on carnivore yeah so um just to just a short circle back there like you're saying um you know it's unsustainable to to never drink alcohol i mean people do that all the time and you know that's like saying there's no way to go through life without heroin you know you just can't you just can't possibly you know live live your life you know completely devoid of heroin like okay that's that's that sounds like someone who has a serious heroin addiction and is trying to justify that um and same with alcohol and uh grains and so forth so of course you can of course you can live without it is is alcohol uh an essential nutrient all of a sudden you know no of course you yeah it's changed yeah so you know that's um that that sounds like someone trying to cover up their own sort of uh bad feelings on their on their own predilections and addictions um as to dairy uh yeah you know there's stuff that um uh can cause issues for people some people don't have have a real big problem with dairy but uh people that with say like autoimmune issues or recovering from that or leaky gut they'll have much more problems with dairy and and raw dairy is very different than pasteurized dairy and milk and so forth um absolutely yeah and uh yeah you're right your a1 um proteins and milk are inflammatory and so people you know try to get the a2 which is better but it's actually still pro-inflammatory so you still have these problems and if you're someone who has issues like the the autoimmune people you know you're going to see that manifest much more severely also milk you know again it's just raw milk is just a very different thing to pasteurize milk homogenize milk and either way even even with raw you know raw milk it still has enough lactose if you're ignoring everything else it has enough lactose in it that you'll jack up your um you'll jack up your insulin level which will derail your metabolism i'm not i'm not worried about you'll be in ketosis checking my ketones and doing all that sort of stuff you know i live naturally i i live i eat biologically and so i trust my body to manage itself i don't i don't need to micromanage it um so whatever my ketones are they're what they're supposed to be because i'm eating what i'm supposed to um and when you eat uh dairy you can you know it'll have nutrients it'll have good nutrition that's fine but it's not gonna have everything it's not a complete nutrient source like a steak would be a fatty steak but you know in in moderation like if you were using it as a condiment i don't um i don't tell people to strictly avoid that unless they have a problem with it unless they have problems with it or they have an autoimmune issue but you know melting cheese onto meat is okay you know glass of milk every couple of months maybe the problem is is that is that people hear that and they go oh dairy is fine and they just and they're just eating blocks of cheese drinking gallons of milk and just eating plain yogurt and so forth you know i i i'm very careful to you know word it just like that whenever i talk to people about dairy and every single time the only thing they hear is dairy's okay and then they they just go they go nuts on it and it can be addictive you know and and people run into i mean you know i love milk i absolutely love milk i've always loved milk i was it was one of those kids who drank a gallon of milk a day every day yeah i love this stuff now what's that that's why that's why you're six foot three yeah well it could be yeah like um you know so you know now when i have milk i love it you know and it's really hard for me i'll drink a glass of milk and i'm like really want another one but you know i try and stop myself um but there is that that sort of addiction craving where your body really starts wanting those those carbohydrates because now you've jacked up your insulin and that suppresses your body's ability to to uh make energy and you're blocking your leptin and so forth so you get all these these mixed up signals in your head and now your body's like drink more milk drink all the milk and so i you know i tend to avoid it just for that i don't i don't you know just like you know i wouldn't want to start smoking because i really don't want to continue smoking so why even start and that's sort of my my feelings with terry as well yeah i like that i mean exactly what you said like um when you tell someone that yeah you can have it just have a little bit of it just don't have too much of it then they hear what they want to hear and it's the same for me when um because people and obviously it's becoming larger in the uk keto movement and and things like that people are dying more doing keto more and then carnivore is coming out more and it comes it doesn't come from but it comes from the states which is where it was it's been for a longer time you know even though we know where they all came from in the past through evolution and stuff like that it's like the movement so to speak comes from over there and there's so many companies in in uh well all over the world and they're pushing these products and it's like this is keto and then you look at the ingredients and then you get the argument then they say but it doesn't you know it's within my macros i can't listen to that that's the kind of thing that stresses me i can't listen to people say it it's my macros because it's all about the health for me um and peanuts is one for me that absolutely i can't i can't listen to people saying eat peanuts because of the lectins because of the aflatoxins as well when you're trying to explain to someone yeah you can have something with peanuts in it once a month or once every two or three months they here you can have something with peanuts in it kev said you can and that's it that's where it ends so you've that's why i like like yourself i draw that line and say you know um don't don't don't go there yeah luigi yeah well yeah exactly and i mean how good is a peanut you know i mean what's that really adding to your life you know exactly that i you know i just don't see it you know i mean even things that i you know i would really enjoy the taste of you know i enjoy feeling you know impeccable much more you know i think it was um who said it originally a lot of people have have uh you know taken it uh for their own but you know the you know the saying is like you know uh nothing tastes better than than you know being fit feels and yeah yeah i completely agree with that however you want to word it just that you know good health is better than anything i've ever eaten you know yeah and at the same time like i steak has always been my favorite meal bar none since i was a kid that's always been my favorite and you know i was i was talking my dad you know early on when i was doing this uh sort of the first year into it and i was saying i was just like you know it feels like my birthday every day because usually on your birthday you know you have like the meal that you're not going to feel guilty about you're going to spend extra money on you're just going to have your special day meal and and you're not going to be you're not going to feel bad about it and mine was always a big ass steak with like you know butter or bernay sauce or something like that and you know some prawns or you know whatever it was always meat it was always steak yeah and so now i'm just cooking like an amazing steak every single day and so every single day just feels like my birthday is every day i was like oh this is it this is what i wanted and you know and it's fantastic so um yeah and so you know do do i remember things tasting good sure did i enjoy various food stuff absolutely do i miss it not in the slightest i just just don't care you know because i could i miss all sorts of things that were enjoyable in the past does that mean that they're going to add any value to my life no no not really you know so um you know it's really easy for me that's not it's not as easy for everybody but um i think once you you keep going with it and you start thinking around these you know framing in these sorts of ways it gets a lot easier as opposed to you know we were saying you know before we we came on here you know not really liking the term diet because that that you know adds a sense of temper of you know it's temporary and you're going to go on it then you're going to go off of it and so you know if you're if you're constantly thinking about i really like that or whatever and you're not thinking in a way of like i just want to feel good i don't need that crap you know you're you're going to be more tempted more often and if you you sort of think of you you sort of think in the back of your head well maybe someday i'll have that again like you you are going to set yourself up for a failure you know i usually tell people like just you know they say like well i'm going to wait until all my plant stuff you know runs out and then i'll start buying carnivore i'm like you'll never go carnivore then because you're just gonna keep buying stuff you've got to strike where the iron is hot you just gotta throw that crap out and just start eating meat and you know and and and really throw this stuff out because when you have it in the house and i've seen my parents do this i've seen other people do it if you have it in the house at some point you're going to mess up you're going to snack on something and you know my parents said well we want to we want to have stuff around in case you have family and friends come over and we and we're hosting them and so forth um and invariably they will just be going around and there'll just be some like almonds there my dad was just like oh almonds and because he's just so used to people for decades you know just if there's almonds there just sort of snack on them you know because that's just just what you do it's easy to do that and and so they were doing that and it was it was sort of admiring uh their progress um you know it's easy it's easy enough to just you know get things temporarily and say hey this food goes home with you guys or i'm throwing it out so you know please take it or just you know you provide meat and anyone else can bring whatever they want they can take it home with them i mean you know um you can i mean that's that's that's like hit the nail right on the head there for me because when i first started um when i first started changing my my way of eating i went first of all to organic you know organic meat because i looked at how the animals were being treated and that's how i came up things like kfc and mcdonald's and stuff like that and that's what my wife was pushing um so we went on that and then we ended up going down the whole rabbit hole of making things yourself you know like making your own bread not going processed and i would take my own food there and like what you say i have to have this in the house just think hey [Music] i always say and this is the totally flip side is would a vegan keep a steak or something in this in their freezer or in their fridge just in case i popped around and i know you're just trying to be nice to someone but you've got to stick with what you believe in your heart and sadly if people can't accept you for the way that you are then that's their loss not yours so you know i totally see where you're coming from um and when it comes to the whole acceptance thing as well um which leads me into something that i'm interested about is um what's your take on organ mates then yeah so um if i can just just just comment just briefly on that um you know one it just reminded me of a conversation i had with someone who was trying to sort of introduce carnivore they were doing carnivore and they were trying to get their kids to do it as well uh the kids were sort of resistant they were teenagers at this point and so um they're saying like you know they they bought some things with you know their own money or they had this stuff or well they all don't want to throw it out because other people brought it over and it's a waste and i was like okay well someone left a pack of cigarettes here would you would you keep it just in case someone wanted to smoke you know if your kids my kids bought it you know they that would be upset i it's like okay you know do you recognize these things as harmful do you recognize sugar as a drug and it's addictive and it causes harm yes i do okay so if you found a bag of cocaine in the room would you just be oh well they spent money on it you know coke is really you know expensive so i wouldn't want to like throw it out it's like no you dump it down the toilet you know and beat their ass and so you know yeah why is this different you know we recognize this as a harmful substance we recognize sugar as a drug at least i do and and others as well and so you know why are we treating this differently to any other drug that we come across just because it's not illegal okay i mean there's all sorts of things that aren't illegal that that aren't really good for you um so you know it's it's um i think of it in that in in that way and when you start framing it like this and start looking at it like as you would any other sort of illicit substance that you you wouldn't want around the house you know it starts being like oh yeah like why am i keeping this stuff just get rid of this crap um i did that sorry just i did that i i found my son he's 15 but a couple of years ago i found his stash of sweets and i was like well you're not going to enjoy them now when i tip them down the sink or put chili on them and stuff like that so yeah i've done it yeah good well you know look you sometimes you got to you know you control what comes into your house and maybe you do it in a slow graduated process and you just start buying less and less crap and less and less this and less and less that and just sort of more and more meat you sort of get them a bit you know acclimatized to it and then and then pull pull the rug out but you know it's um at the end of the day it's your house and yeah your kids and you know so you can you can try to educate them and bring them into the fold and sort of have it make it be their choice which is which will work much better long term because then when they leave the house they're also going to be you listen to you as well but it was the same sort of education as you would as you would use with with drugs and alcohol and cigarettes yeah so it's exactly the same it's like look this stuff is really bad for you it's not good for you and i know everyone else you know thinks it's awesome but like it's really not and you can talk about that it's obviously it's sort of you're swimming up upstream uh with this sort of thing because most people are saying it's actually really healthy but you know they also said that about cigarettes you know at one point so you know that's not uh that's not something that we can um ignore and it's not something that you know we can't change either um as to as to organ me i know i don't think you need need to eat them if you want to eat them great but i think you would you should listen to your taste i always tell people because you go carnivore and the keto people will recognize this as well to a certain extent that you you have to relearn your hunger signals when you drop carbohydrates and so forth certainly when you drop all plants because lectins can actually uh bind your insulin receptors and and um screw up your hormonal signaling pathways so that you're you're just hungry uh when you shouldn't be and you retain uh fat when you shouldn't um i'm so glad you said that because i've been saying that as well i've been saying that for a long time yeah about about about uh lectins and things like so glad you said that yeah yeah and you know i noticed that when i just dropped greens i wasn't you know specifically doing keto i just wasn't eating carbs and sugar and so far i was just seeing some means meeting some greens and then i just dropped you know spinach kale broccoli and um just dropped that and ate way more calories eating a lot more steak a lot more fatty steak and i i dropped 10 kilos in a week week and a half yeah 10 days and um and you know and then went from there and you just started just shredding fat and stacking on muscle from eating more and you know so you know and i wasn't eating any carbs i didn't have any carbs in my in my diet at the time um so i you know i go by taste when you when you do this sort of diet for the first time certainly you you have to relearn your hunger signals you will not feel hungry to the normal degree and most people say oh i'm just not hungry i'm just not hungry i'm not putting on weight because i'm just not hungry you know i eat when i'm hungry but i'm just not hungry you have to you have to think you have to remember that this stuff doesn't doesn't affect you the same way as you're never going to feel hungry like you you always have in the past we learn these things if you're feeling a little bit off you're feeling a bit tired you feel a bit something or maybe you're having cravings maybe you're thinking about pancakes or something like that you smell some bread meal oh that's that's i wish i could have that you know think about it to yourself and says you know is this my brain telling me that i need food that i need nutrition and eat eat meat you know and so try it and if it tastes good that means that you're hungry and your body wants it um i've noticed that the more hungry you are the better things taste that was a famous saying you know 200 years ago was you know the the best seasoning is hunger you know yeah like these are going to taste a lot better you know even drab things are going to taste amazing when you're when you're starving and and but the converse is true so when you're full meat's not going to taste good it's the same piece of meat but when you start eating it tastes amazing it's the best thing you've ever had so every day it's my birthday i'm like i love this and i get to a certain point where i just go you know i'm really not enjoying this anymore i i just want to stop i naturally want to stop and that's your body telling you that you you have enough nutrients you have enough calories you have enough nutrition cut it out and so this is this is natural portion control which is you know some of the detractors say like oh when you're eating these sorts of diets and these elimination diets you you tend to eat less calories and so you lose weight that way so just calories in calories out like okay a that's wrong but b let's say it's right um do you not see how significant that is that your body is naturally limiting your your caloric intake and that your nutrition intake to exacting degrees so your body gets exactly what it wants to maintain your body fat percentage and muscle muscle mass to exacting degrees that is that is very significant you know most people say oh i got to calculate my calories in calories out and all that sort of stuff which is garbage it's been completely debunked you know many times over and people that are still you know clutching onto this i just you know i think they they are really really uh misled here um it's not calories in calories out first of all calories affect your body very differently and from very diff every different sources you know a calorie is not a unit that you're eating you know these these things they burn them in and you know in beakers and things like that they get this amount of energy out this is how many calories it has that's not how your body works your body doesn't burn things you know that's why we call burning calories but we don't burn anything you know these are these are complex organic molecules that have very different uh effects on your body when you eat them they do very different things they interact with other chemicals uh in a chemical fashion so you know it's um it's not as simple as calories in calories now because first of all those calories aren't exactly the amount of energy that you're going to get out of each one of those molecules so when you when you relearn that going by taste you know you can just eat what tastes good and so if organs taste good and that's that's what your body wants then i think go ahead and you know if you're very nutrient deprived if you're eating a sad diet or something like that um standard american diet centered western diet really then you know you're probably going to be a bit nutrient deprived and you know liver is probably going to be a good idea but yeah if you're not doing that and you're just eating meat and water you don't need it if you want it go for it you know and um raw liver for some reason tastes so much better it's just a totally different thing you know it's like it's like you know tuna fish from a from a can and like you know uh like you know ahi yeah yeah it's like it's just like it's a different animal like why would you ever cook it you know that's horrible i can't i can't do that yeah yeah like it just i i think of all the different you know uh you know cans of tuna that i've eaten over the course of my life and realized this this could that could have been you know like you know fresh ahi or something like that i'm like that that's just a crime that that was done i have an animal i i've never eaten juno i've eaten it once from a tin but and then apart from eating it sashimi i won't even touch it it doesn't smell right it doesn't taste right it doesn't feel right so why would i eat it it's like it's like people they they jump onto keto and then they they start swapping things around and they start eating spinach and i'm like why are you eating spinach it doesn't taste nice it makes your teeth squeaky it's packed full of oxalates which are super harmful for the body why would you eat spinach oh because it makes you strong it's full of iron it's not sharp going does it yeah you know um so what about things like because we've established that you're obviously a massive fan of just like salt you know water and and meat um do you do like all the animals like all over the animal kingdom and i was listening um yesterday or a couple of days ago to when you mentioned um the greatest warriors of all time the you know the mongolians and how amazing they are and how much horse meat they used to eat as well which is 100 true and then they used to drink the blood as well i also from time to time partaking a little bit of blood when i can get my hands on it um but again i don't force myself to eat these organs and and things like that as well um but i i eat pretty much if it's meat i'm going to eat it so like i i am a person of i will pick at any kind of animal from the animal kingdom so i also go hunting so for deer boar pheasant all that kind of stuff what about yourself is that the same for you or yeah yeah i definitely i you know sort of what i say people was you know anything that moves and had a face you know yeah and that's because you know some people have problems with shellfish you know and so you know you you eliminate that problem with mostly with faces um but you know anything that that moves and had a parent you know had parents or something like that you know you could you can sort of put it that way um yeah i i don't have a problem with that um i find that i mostly eat beef just because i prefer it and you know i've sort of been at the sharp ended end of this for you know a number of years and so because i've only only only eaten meat i can actually i can actually feel the difference between different kinds of meat and i just feel better yeah i feel better on beef than i would on say like pork and eggs and and fish and things like that i just i just feel better my body just i always feel great but i feel greater when i'm when i'm just sticking to beef um and certainly when i add in dairy you know i sort of i notice it sort of you know takes a bit of the edge off um and uh but no i i like all sorts of meat and you know anything anything that you enjoy eating have good access to has a good fat supply that's right for you and that that you can afford i think that's fine you know there's there's a lot of people working on different budgets and you know so you know if if that's your case you know chicken and pork perfectly fine examples eggs are great you know if you don't have autoimmune issues some people with autoimmune issues have difficulties with like egg whites and things like that that i've noticed um and and actually pork and chicken as well actually so i do recommend that when if people are have autoimmune issues if they really want to go um get the best out of it you know just going you know just beefing grass-fed beef if they can but you know any any meat and just eliminating all that other crap out is going to is going to confer significant benefits to anything else you're going to eat i was also going to say you know you do have to be careful with oregon meats because you know they're they're pitched and it is a pitch it's a sales pitch saying that they're the most nutritious they have you know most nutrient dense part of the animal you know yeah that's true and that's also a problem because think about it you get everything you need from muscle meat and so these organs have way more vitamins than muscle meat so what does that mean there's too much right if you're eating them regularly if you just have them every now and then fine it's not a big deal but you know think about the size of an animal you know say a deer and the size of their liver you know how many pounds of muscle meat are you getting to how many pounds of of liver you're getting you know it's hundreds to one and so you know if you go hunting and you take down a you know a bore or stag or something like that the majority of what you're going to be eating is is going to be the the skeletal muscle and so even if you do eat the liver even if you do with the awful and so forth you that's going to be a very very small amount it's not clear to the rest of the animal and so you have to put this stuff in proportion and if you if you don't you can find yourself getting into trouble this is this you know some uh people have gone carnivore uh not even that long term so i don't want to call them long-term carnivores but you know for for a few years um you know they're having issues and and now they're saying oh well you need to incorporate you know carbohydrates back in and all these sorts of things and now you need carbs now you need fructose i don't know you know what they're doing but like i've done this for 10 of the last 20 years i i don't i don't eat honey i don't eat fruit i don't do any of that stuff and my my hormones are are optimal you know and and yes i have checked um you know my endocrinologist i've said this before but my endocrinologist because he was just you know sort of incredulous that you know this could be a healthy way of going but he was you know i was telling him about the research i was telling him about all these sorts of things and he was really interested in like oh that's cool but let's you know check check all your bloods yeah he ended up going carnivore himself and now you know encourages that in his patients because my bloods came back and he said that you know if you took 100 000 people my age off the street that my bloods would be number one without a shadow of a doubt and that was vitamins minerals hormones everything everything you do right um my ldl cholesterol was slightly above you know the recommended uh limits but you know from if anyone's seen my my videos on cholesterol i don't get i don't care because like cholesterol is actually good for you exactly yeah and so whatever whatever my cholesterol is because i'm eating a new biologically appropriate diet it's going to be appropriate it's going to be physiological whatever it is you know so i don't need to micromanage that um so i've been doing this longer than than those people have and i've never had these problems but you know i don't need organ meat and they do and not only do they eat organ meat they espouse uh it's it's value and it's important to eat a lot of it which again you're not going to get a lot of it out in the wild you're going to get a small bit of it every now and then and so i think it's important for people to remember real quick vitamin a hypervitaminosis a which you know you can get from eating too much liver will suppress your thyroid and a lot of these guys are getting problems with their thyroid very specifically and so that that is a possible cause i'm not saying it is the cause i'm not their doctor i haven't spoken to them or looked at their at their labs or anything like that but this is just something that they talk about this is also something that they do and that is a known uh side effect of hyper hypervitaminosis age so you know it's something to think about anyway and if you're going to have liver if you like it and you enjoy it fine i wouldn't eat it every day and i certainly wouldn't eat it as a as a mainstay and um and yeah just just wouldn't do it you know we can go to the store and just buy a bunch of liver but that was that was never the way you know it's not like we were we were going around you know killing a bunch of animals and just eating the liver and going from animal animal eating their livers and leaving the restaurant you know so yeah i mean that's what i do that that's what i do i mean i look at it as a evolutionary standpoint and if you know if we go to a slaughter place or something and we pick up what we want to pick up then you know like i like heart i think it's quite nice it's got a nice flavor to it and a beef heart is huge so that's gonna so i would take you know like a small slither of the heart from from the slaughterhouse each time i would go there because i wouldn't also sit and eat your whole heart you know and and they would we would portion it a little bit and say okay we would gauge it i would have a piece about the size of a small steak or a flank steak or something like that and then yeah i would eat some liver two or three times in the last couple of years i've had some blood um and most of the other stuff i don't really my my wife and my youngest son he's eight they eat the testicles they balls testicles they cut them and fry them like little pancakes and that's that's fine with them i'm not interested in that you know um but whatever you know and uh my other two kids they they love you know like you know we make burger patties and stuff like that but yeah when it comes down to it we don't indulge in you know too much you know organ meats we just have it as we fancy kidneys i think that they taste like urine so why would i want to eat them you know even cooked or you know why you wouldn't put it in water you know you wouldn't you wouldn't do that in nature so why would you do it now it's like you know why would you go and do something in that isn't it doesn't make any sense to me so if they taste they smell off they don't they don't feel good then why force yourself to eat them just because they are nutritious it's ridiculous yeah and um and again you know proportionality is just not there and you know you look at the native americans you know what they they would eat traditionally you know it's they would eat fresh meat when they when they had it but you know by and large especially like the plains indians they would run like a herd of buffalo over over a cliff or something like that and they would all you know crash and die and they would go down and harvest the bodies um so that meat's going to go bad isn't it but it it it's uh it's able to be preserved and dry and they would make pemmican they would dry them dry the meat yeah it's so good it's great i've made it as well it's fantastic and so um and they would grind that up and powder it and and then mix that with rendered fat 50 50. you know real easy real easy recipe and there was a lot of accounts that they were saying that they actually preferred that they actually preferred the pemmican to just the lean beef you know the lean sort of meat now probably because of the fat content because it just it just tasted nicer because of the fat and so a lot of people you know preferred that they preferred the pemmican and that's what they would eat most of the year they didn't necessarily really eat the organs or whatever the organs you know you know do it would rot you know you can't you can't store these things um the uh you know the the inuits um and you know the native americans in the northern sort of reaches and other other parts of the world in the north they would just eat um they would just eat the mussel meat and the blubber and the fat and they would feed the organs to their dogs and that's something that's well described and documented with the various polar explorers that have gone north um you know other uh you know hunting sort of um i guess you call them traditions or or techniques and styles is that you know when when someone would be out on a hunt you know several days out you know they would go and they they you know hit something you know catch it you know shoot a deer or something like that um they would cut off its haunches and they would gut it skin it and they would take back the four quarters and the and the torso and they would leave the organs you know you got to think about bang for your buck you're going to hike this back you know 20 30 miles you know you're not just going to bring dead weight and so they would they would you know skin it and then leave the haunches up and you think about this you know this was described to me as a kid as as um this was that you know they're offering to you know the animal spirits and so forth and you know i'm sure that's what it was but also just think about it that's the leanest part of the animal is it's it's it's hindquarters and so you know they're le they're leaving the leanest part they're taking the fattiest part and they're leaving you know the innards and so forth um so there's a lot of these these different examples and you look at lions in the wild they'll they'll you know take down a buffalo and they'll go go for the the abdomen first and people think oh they're going for the organs yeah you know they are eating the organs but that's also the fattiest part that's also where most of the fat is you know that's bacon is the abdominal abdominal wall so you know they're going for the fattiest part first and yeah they're getting organs too that's fine but you know one of the things they do leave is they leave the hindquarters lions tend to leave the hindquarters a lot of meat there why aren't they eating that well you know there's not much fat in it but the hyenas will come in as you know scavengers and they'll sort of eat the the haunches and they'll be able their jaws are strong enough they can crack the bones the femurs then get at the marrow and that's really what they're going through they're again going for this fat as well um yeah so it's just interesting you can you can see a lot of a lot of these different examples and yeah you know people say well you know people would hunt and you know animals in the wild are very lean but you know you will look at animals in the wild and they will tend to go for the fattier parts and um you know you know previous you know primitive humans living naturally generally go for the fat fattier parts yeah and avoid options you know yeah so i've got one like i've got one more thing that i really want to ask about which uh is really controversial if i've got two things i want to i want to ask but i don't do the first one is um what's your take on like a raw carnivore diet because i've eaten raw meat before and um i i like my steak as rare as possible but i like it to be like a good temperature so i'll take it out for the day if i know i'm having steak for dinner i'll leave it out to get to a good room temperature and then i'll just sear it done that's that's all i need that's all i want i want that flavor and so there's like two perspectives of things it's like i want the i want it cooked uh a little bit because i i like it but also um people a lot of people say which i i'm a little bit in agreeance but also disagree is when you cook you kill all the nutrients and all of the goodness out of the meat and the longer you cook it like i do agree that when you cook things like english style barbecues and they're burnt on the outside frozen on the inside i do agree that that's not good for you but i don't think it's you know that bad for you to eat and there's a lot of people at the moment that are doing this whole raw carnivore thing because i know i know it's only youtuber there's a guy on youtube that is fully says you should eat a raw carnivore diet and or he says you should eat this that's the natural way what's your take on raw meat like in general or all animals yeah well you know if we're if we're talking about natural in nature and going back you know the the earliest um the earliest uh fossil record of like a cook fire like a large fire for cooking is 790 000 years old okay so that's half a million years before homo sapiens existed so we've been cooking for a long time so i don't think that there's anything necessarily wrong with that i don't think that you're going to lose out um maybe if you just just burn it to a crisp and you know you're going to do something but as long as you're not at you know an animal and just you know really just destroying this thing it's poor animal it's already died for you you don't need to you know punish it more you know like just just enjoy it um you know i i don't think you're going to run into any problems you know if if that were such a detriment to health you know we probably wouldn't have done it it probably wouldn't have come up uh or we wouldn't have survived it wouldn't have it wouldn't have worked but uh it did and we do and we've been cooking for you know since time even more literally since before homo sapiens existed half a million years before that and so we've been doing that and that may have may have confer you know i think that it may have um you know conferred a benefit in fact because you know it would kill parasites you know you're cooking this stuff it's going to kill parasites you know your wild animals wild game and so forth it's it's kind i don't know what you do but you know it's commonly taught that you should you should cook wild game uh well done you know to get the parasites and so forth you know trichinosis does not exist in pigs in in farms in america but a dozen bears that's exactly yeah and the hunt bears they they will get trichinosis so most of the cases of trigonosis in america are from bears not eating bear meat and then that's from you know undercooked bear meat um you can actually undercook you know um pork in america and i'm sure in england and other western countries stuff's been basically eradicated from from the farm uh populations uh for i think 20 years in america i'm not sure about where else but i think that that probably conferred an advantage being able to cook things so if it if it sapped all the nutrients to such a degree as to not being you know possible to maintain life and get the nutrients that we needed that that probably wouldn't have worked out so i don't i don't i don't think there's a problem eating raw um as long as you you trust the source you're not you know toying with with parasites and things like that i don't think there's anything wrong with it i don't think you uh have to cook it in order to unlock different things but i don't think you have to eat it raw either and i'm like you the more i go with this the the more rare i like it and so i really just yeah i generally just sear it as well and and uh i just really prefer that taste the same thing just sort of seared on the outside and still almost cold on the inside and like a blue steak but you know i i think i think you're fine either way i think there's arguments for and against you know you can you can uh denature some of the proteins and that can actually help your body break them down and absorb them a little easier but also on the other side of it you know people say that you know over like 92 degrees fahrenheit you start denaturing some of the enzymes that actually help break it down from the inside right so you have these lysosomes that are in cells and they when they break open they start actually dissolving and breaking down and digesting the cell from the inside and you know she was oh this is actually of benefit because you know you're you're it's helping break itself down and that's probably true but you know it's i think you're i think you're okay you know either either way you do it i think you just go for preference yeah i think i i agree as well um yeah so then the last one i the anyone listening from my side of things is going to be shocked about this because i very rarely admit this but i have in my life been vegan for a month [Laughter] so i will explain so when we were moving over to eaton like doing ourselves you know like creating our own foods making our own bread and stuff like that there was a vegan movement being pushed in germany um and we looked at a cookbook and it was i think it was vegan for fit or vegan for life or something like that and i went vegan for a month and because i'm a kind you know i worked as a chef or a cuisine cooking one night a week i was allowed to do whatever i wanted so i used to cook mainly paleo and keto but i went vegan before i did so that i could try and get my head in the mindset of being a vegan what they wanted to eat it was the worst month of my life i'm not even joking it was the worst i felt like crap after a week and i didn't stop feeling like crap until a week or two after i carried on eating meat again and what i want to know is have you ever done anything as ridiculous or stupid in your life as going v for a month jesus god no absolutely not never done it oh god no i yeah i remember like it says before but like you know i remember when i was a kid all i wanted to eat was meat and you know it's a very natural instinct for kids to just want to eat meat especially fatty meat and i remember my sister you know was talking about becoming a vegetarian and i that just really just didn't sit well with me like what the hell is a vegetarian i didn't know what it was but it sounded way too close to vegetables for me to be uh happy about it and i asked my mom i was like what what the hell is a vegetarian he said well that you know that's someone who only wants to eat vegetables i was like only wants to eat vegetables like that just blew my mind and i was like well then i'm a meatatarian because i only want to eat meat you know and and i did i tried to every single time i got to that table like that's the only thing i wanted to eat yeah and um it was just a sort of an anecdotal reference you know my older brother really liked meat i really liked meat um and we had to eat all the other you know crap by sufferance but our younger our youngest brother he was a very picky eater and he really liked uh white rice with tempura sauce so that was really the only thing that my mom could get him to eat consistently and he would eat other things uh at other times but the mainstay of what that kid ate was white rice with tempura sauce which is sugary soy sauce crap and you know my brother's six foot four i'm six foot three my younger brother's five foot ten you know it was big difference and you know we all had straight teeth we never had braces he had to get braces my sister who went vegetarian had to get braces and we know now from the literature in the you know the dental literature that this is that crooked teeth is not genetic you know so you know england it's actually not you know english teeth or are bad genetically it's just you you're not getting enough vitamin d because you live in you know the tundra and you're you're not eating enough fatty meat and so forth so you're not getting vitamin k2 k1 d3 and calcium to the extent that you need to grow your your jaws and teeth appropriately and so um you know it all it all comes back and you can you see this in in real time um but yeah so um yeah i've never never gone that far and uh but i have noticed that you know when when i when i cut out just the the vegetables uh just the spinach kale and broccoli i noticed that it you know took a good ten days to two weeks before my body was really humming you know yeah and um and you know if i get if i mix in some or if i don't mix it in but if some rice or beans or something like that gets mixed in with the food i'm eating if i'm at a restaurant which is very rare at these days because i just asked them just don't put on the sides but i was i went to this mexican restaurant um you know early on and uh asked them to not bring out you know all the sides i just wanted to meet but of course they they brought it out and it was like on top of it i'm like crap and i was like trying to like scrape it off but i got like a bit of rice and a bit of beans i remember thinking i was like maybe we should just have a spoonful you know of this stuff and just and just see and just see what happens but i was like the worst thing is going through your mind isn't it what's the worst that can happen well you know it wasn't even that it was just it was purely in the in the uh in the spirit of experiment i wanted to see what is this going to do to me you know is this going to make me feel like crap and i remember thinking like you know i don't want to go down that is a slippery slope if i sort of make an excuse to do it now i'm going to make it later on so i'm just i'm just going to you know stay strong but it was a little bit of rice a little bit of beans on these sorts of things that i didn't quite get completely off i couldn't scrape it all off my back killed me i was like you know i was like an 80 year old who'd just been in an accident like i was it was like stabbing pain in my lower back for four full days did not go and that's from the tiniest amount of beans and rice but you know looking back my back has always hurt since i was 15 years old my back has always hurt my lower back it's just killed me and then when i went carnivore in my early 20s all of a sudden i didn't have back pain i remember going down to um san diego when i was 27 and i was playing down the super league down there and you know training with like the u.s national team down in the chula vista olympic training center and then unfortunately you know had some some knee issues and so i couldn't actually compete for a spot on the world cup in 2007 world cup which was quite devastating but um in any case i remember at that point i had sort of slipped off just eating meat without realizing it and i remember also thinking i'm like god you know my back's starting to be sore like that's weird and all of a sudden i went like no that's weird that it hasn't hurt like christ you know my back hasn't hurt in years like oh that's weird and then all of a sudden it was it was started hurting again it started building up so you know this stuff you know causes a problem and you know we we think of this we just think of this as normal we have this baseline level of crap that we always feel because we're taking in all these toxins and so forth and we think of that as normal and so we gauge each day based on you know this being normal and then when you get out of it you get get all this stuff out of your system you just feel so amazing and you realize what normal actually feels like and it you know it feels like you're on drugs or something like that because you just you're so much better all the time than you ever were before and so you know it's um yeah if people haven't tried it i mean i just i highly encourage people to do it and just like just do it for a month you know i mean you can do anything for a month oh yeah kev went vegan for a month and that was miserable you know and this is actually going to be good for you and you feel great so you know i encourage people to try that and just see how you go yeah i do agree and when going back to the teeth thing as well i think it's so funny when i left the army uh which is about eight years ago just gone eight years and we had i had my dental appointment and she was checking in my teeth and she said you've got a hole in your in your tooth and i was like really oh that's interesting because i get checked every year all of a sudden you know in the army you gotta get checked every year so all of a sudden you get a whole lot after a year you know because we were on bad nutrition back in those days anyway in my army days and she said we can fill it now and i was like i i don't think i want another fill in like i've already got two i don't want one and she said but it's only gonna get bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger and then your tooth is gonna fall off and rotten your jaw and your head or whatever and i was like no you know what i don't want it and she said it will cost you more money when you get out of the army if it gets worse and i said no i don't want it i've still got that hole it's got i think i think it's got smaller now i could be wrong but it hasn't got bigger that's for sure it doesn't smell i make sure that there's no food getting stuck in it so when i clean my teeth anyway i'll give it a good you know like make sure there's nothing in there and so i've tested it does my breast smell to my wife no it doesn't and there's a hole is still there how can the hole still be there if all of those years that i was eating bad food even if you know because i go between keto and carnivore all the time um you know i flip between the two i do a few months here carnivore and then i go on to keto um eat a little bit of cucumber and and bacon and stuff and then back to carnivore but it's always back to carnivore it's always going back to it because it's the best and how is my body not how is my tooth not rotting away when i'm eating you know just these things that i was you know because i'm not eating all the grains of sugar all the seed oils and things like that so how is it possible and i say to my kids as well you know it's too because my son came ended up with holes in his teeth you know and i said look man come on you've got more holes than i have and you're 15. do you want to sort you want you want to do it through nutrition or do you want to have a metal load of metal in your mouth that's probably full of toxins anyway or that is full of toxins and he was like i know i want to do it the way that you've done it and now he pretty much only eats meat now he's pretty much dead on carnivore he still has that sweet tooth and i think they're as hard for him as a as a 15 year old boy at school um but you know he's getting more and more he goes to the gym now as well he can soon you'll be dead lifting more than me but he's going to sort his teeth out and when you say about teeth and calcium and vitamin d k2 and k1 you know especially these things as well that you can't get from plants like k2 you know that's like just screaming out to me when people say they're going vegan and then you know i and when you said about the the british teeth i always remember the simpsons episode the big book of british smiles and it had all these my wife teases me about that all the time because i've got completely straight teeth as well no i i i did have a brace but it was just because one was a little bit more forward it wasn't like so crooked and anything like that um but it's just funny that you bring up all of these things and then you look back and you think and they're all food related all of them all nutrition related you're not getting enough nutrients you know your teeth aren't growing properly because they they grow and you know you they have to grow everything grows on your body so it's just just sings the same tunes that i've been saying for the past four or five years now even more eight years now yeah was it um was it monty python that did the whole whole uh song about a whole song about british teeth british teeth british teeth and they had the whole thing about why they're great and at the very end uh the last frame was um you know three cheers for the brown gray and black and i always love that and um yeah so you know you're exactly right i mean you know when you think about it you know we have you know certain gut you know certain uh bacterial flora that that lives in our body and and on us um in our mouth and our entire elementary track you know uh well most of it anyway but from end to end you have you have bacteria in some areas and your mouth is no different and depending on what you eat you're going to have different bacterial complement and some of those bacteria are going to be problematic for your teeth and they're going to rot your teeth and they're going to start eating the enamel and when you get away from that you don't have that i mean how many animals in the wild have cavities how many of them have crooked teeth i point this out to people how many horses have you seen with crooked ass teeth you know how many dolphins you know the only things that have crooked teeth are humans and our pets when we feed them something that they did not evolve on and so this is what it is you know and so you know wolves don't have crooked teeth but a lot of dogs do and it's not genetic um so you know when you you stops eating that certain thing you had a different gut floor or a different uh bacterial complement in your mouth and they stop stop wasting away you know that that makes perfect sense you know if you're if this is your hypothesis that you know eating meat and you know keto but you know really meat is going to give you a better bacterial complement in your mouth you're not going to get teeth rot as as you know the animals in the wild they have to have their teeth their whole life you run out of teeth you run out of life and so that doesn't really work and so um they're not just going to just rot out of your head i mean you know what what lion and shark has a dentist you know um yeah you know and how many inuits are going to the dentist up in the north pole exactly you know um so you know they have to take care of themselves is what i'm saying and so you know that that's a very good illustration of that phenomenon where you started eating something biologically appropriate and you got you know the appropriate bacteria in your mouth and it you know was was proper for your teeth this is going to be the same thing in your gut with your gut bacteria and everyone says oh well you get you get better you get better gut bacteria if you're eating more fiber you need more this you need more that no i listen to that well because the thing is they're comparing this to a western diet so it's always compared to what you know is any any uh you know economist one of uh an economist most economist favorite you know saying is compared to what what are you comparing this to there's a there's a famous joke about you know an economist walking down the street and his friend stops him and says oh hello how are you know um good to see you you know how's your wife doing and he said compared to what you know and that's just this is such a commonly used phrase in economics and something we should use uh and certainly in medicine you know we have a study that says oh look your gut bacteria is better if you're on a vegan diet compared to what when you're eating sugar and processed crap maybe yeah i wouldn't i wouldn't doubt that for a second but yeah compared to a carnivore diet you know no one's done that study so first of all you can't comment on it um but second of all you know so you can't use studies to to glean any information off of that because we don't have any but if you look at you know uh nature and you know how we evolved and you know what we eat in the wild and what animals eat in the wild you can you can clean the you know uh information off from that if we're if we're biologically adapted to eating a certain way it you know it's it stands that you know that you will be you'll have a healthier gut compliment when eating that way because that that's how we evolved we evolved to deal with these uh microbes in our gut and that's that's what's beneficial for us and so you get that out of whack you get you get your health out of whack in other ways as well and so you know it stands to reason that if you are eating what you're supposed to be eating your your gut floor is going to be what it's supposed to be and i i guarantee i will bet any amount of money that you know when we look at this more that you know carnivore uh gut bacteria is going to be absolutely the best compared to anything you know because that's what we are that's who we are you know awesome uh yeah i i have had a great time chatting and yeah i'm really happy that we got together and we've done this and uh i don't know i i don't really have anything else you know i could sit here and talk for hours and hours and hours we're definitely singing off the same song sheet but yeah yeah what i'm saying is i'm really happy that you know i want to give a shout out to razzy because she pushed us together yeah the girl from my group and uh she's she's texting me now she's like are you doing it are you talking to him but um yeah so uh that was awesome and what i'd love to do again is maybe in in a in a few months or something to maybe do another one and we can have a little bit of a chat more otherwise we'll end up speaking for about four five six hours or something yeah man sounds good yeah yeah it definitely sounds good man that was a pleasure and you know i think that you know while we are singing off the same song sheet i think it's good because you know whenever you have these conversations you sort of look at things in slightly different ways you get a little bit of yeah a bit more information out from different perspectives and i think that i can help people because you know maybe you know someone listened to similar information uh in in another video or someone else was talking about or maybe you know you or i were talking about but maybe it just didn't resonate and then you just say it in a certain way and people just go that makes sense you know yeah definitely i mean like what i i've i've said things a few years ago and then you know my wife's very much into this as well she's an engineer but she's very clever um she actually did uh one year studying medicine but it wasn't for her and then she moved on to engineering and she's very clever she's she's the one that pushed me into paleo into them to carnivore and you know into these things and she's raw kind of also all come from her and she's very knowledgeable just like me and sometimes we we've seen things you know like scrolling through whatever i always been on on the tv and she said oh that's really interesting and i'm like i said that to you a few years ago yeah i said that years ago and she was like oh did you and it's always good to get another person that's got pretty much similar views as you because like you've just said that information gets across better and then you can look at it and go oh yeah i didn't know that from a different perspective so yeah i can't thank you enough for having to chat with me today yeah man uh it was absolutely my pleasure it's good talking to you awesome cool all right buddy we'll talk to you later yep see you later