My Time at KetoCon 2022

welcome to the plant-free md podcast with dr anthony chafee where we discuss diet and nutrition and how this affects health and chronic disease and show you how you can use this to optimize your health and happiness both mentally and physically hello and welcome to the how to carnival podcast i'm your host simon lewis and you're tuning in to the plant-free md series with dr anthony chafee dr chafee is a surgeon nutritional researcher and former pro-rugby player he's been strict carnivore for three years and an on and off carnival for more than 20. dr chafee looks and feels like a real life superhero if losing fat building muscle finding focus and getting the most out of life is important to you you're going to love the plant-free md series yeah talking about um food in hospitals i saw this these ads that were released by the american meat association back in the 40s and 50s i don't know if you saw that i shared on cheddar and stuff and one of them was like um meat for the convalescence and it was like this um soldier in the image was a soldier in a hospital bed and he's got like this tray on top of him and it's this just like all this meat and it's like you know um meat helps our soldiers with wounds and burns and injuries heal faster that's you know so we can get them back to full strength these days are the food and hospitals like you were saying yeah it's just it's just carbs and sugar that's it yeah almost no protein almost no meat definitely no fat and uh you know if it is it's margarine you know it's it's it's the plan oils but that's the thing i mean this was not a secret this was not a this was not even a question like we you know we've just known this for thousands and thousands of years it was always understood that meat uh was the healthiest thing you could eat that was the best thing for you and you know eating eating plants was you know for you know added spice or flavor or really to cover you know when the spices were to cover up the taste of rotting meat because we didn't have refrigeration you needed to eat meat and and so is this to cover up that taste of of rotting meat but um otherwise it's um you know it was just if you were poor and you didn't have access to me yeah now it's like oh no no that's what you really really want uh probably because people are making trillions of dollars on people eating this nonsense but you know and there may be more to it than that you know you know uh trying to to to sort of weaken people globally you know it's happened you know there are there are uh people that that do try to manipulate others and try to make them weak you know you keep people ignorant you keep them uh under control and yeah yeah exactly you know i mean we have gotten way too comfortable with you know modern democracies uh that have historically worked fairly well uh but people forget that the most of human history is uh you know rife with despotic overlords and people that are just megalomaniacs trying to control dominate here and enslave yeah and i think uh definitely in you know in western countries like australia and the states that we just take it for granted that um as you say we've got this reasonably well functioning democracy where people wouldn't go out of their way to do nasty controlling things like that um but that kind of makes us more susceptible like i don't know i saw um brand shares some great stuff about like indians being vegetarians and like he talks about like during colonization um the english like drove the indians out of their forests where they got a lot of their game meat and where their animals could roam and um and drove them out of there so you can't go and you can't work and you can't hunt in there anymore um instead you're going to work for us we're going to pay you in grain right and then of course you know their health plummets the the number of livestock and animals that they have reduces and then somewhere along the way they start thinking that they're a vegetarian country uh and that this vegetarian way of life is is good for them but you know it's am i right and saying that india has the highest rate of diabetes of anywhere in the world i'm pretty sure that got shocking it's it's it's more it's one of the higher ones i don't know if it's the highest but uh you know it's and it's certainly on the rise it's it's significantly risen in recent decades as has china and other areas and so these places you know people look at obesity rates as that's the end-all be-all and so they look at america and australia and england and the other western countries but you know that's that's not the only indicator of poor health and in fact people are overweight you know because this goes by the bmi i'm i'm overweight i'm obese uh according to bmi um you know even though i'm you know i'm i'm lean but uh that's just how the bmi works it's uh it's not a great metric but that's what we use and so people are people are you know have have less weight in proportion to their height which is what the bmi is in india and china but at the same time they are uh have a very high diabetes rate and these these the metabolic disease and metabolic syndrome are on the on the climb in these countries even though they're not as overweight and that could be for many reasons you know maybe they just don't have as many any big tall muscular people either but either way they're sick you know and so they do have a high very high obesity rate i was talking to doctor from india that i knew in europe and sort of talking about you know the fructose research of dr lustig you know a decade ago or more and and he was like oh you know that's really interesting that you know you know research is showing that fructose causes metabolic disease because you know where i come from in india there's actually this area this whole province that you have just so many mango trees are just abundant they just grow wild that for like three months out of the year when these things are ripe like everyone there just eats mangoes they don't they don't they hardly eat anything else just eat so many mangoes and they have the highest diabetes rate in india which is already very high diabetes uh ridden country and to the point that the government recognized this and recognized it was the mangoes and actually made an ordinance that like limiting the amount of mangoes that people were allowed to eat because of that and um you know so this is this is again this is not this is not new this is something that people have recognized well before the studies came out yeah totally yeah i don't know how this is all getting lost in the uh in the ethereum asthma which is being papered over it's being intentionally papered over you know we had the you know the cholesterol um being vilified by the sugar companies and then that was you know that was a purposeful act um it's still a purposeful act people have invested trillions and they make trillions every year uh on on the sale of their products and if their products are crap and they cause harm people are going to buy them less and you know so what they do is they vilify the the opponent they you know it's like you know the nazi tactics of blaming your opponent for what you yourself are doing so that they might say no no no you're doing anything now you're just retaliating you're just everyone knows that you're the ones doing this and so and that's and that's how it's been you know it's um it's difficult but but it comes around because the truth well out and and the facts are there the evidence is there and people's results are there and they're real and you know when you're eating one way and you're getting fat and sick and you eat another way and you get extremely healthy and strong you know people are going to pay attention to that and then they should yeah for sure i feel like there's at least a little bit of a shift happening i mean like there's so much kind of [ __ ] happening in the in the plant-based space that i think um people are wearing wearing of it like i keep thinking things like on instagram today i saw like um it's got like the plant-based avocado and it was like some idea someone had made an avocado out of um avocado is it so avocados aren't plant-based no i don't know like it was like extra extra processed like it was like environmental yeah and so it was like made from like you know bean pulp and um and vegetable oils and then designed to look like an avocado like how can anyone think that's you know first of all more sustainable more healthy or a good idea at all i cut it and mold it into the shape of food that makes it food right yeah i don't know i don't eat to buy that you know i don't know if you've seen any of those sort of like really top chefs and and they create like these wondrous little meals and there's like you know dry ice and foam and stuff coming out of them and they will like create like something that looks like an apple but it's actually a chocolate cake and that's kind of like a bit of a you know a culinary adventure but people are now doing that with our everyday food and it's somehow seen to be interesting or desirable like you do not need a hot dog that's made from yeah plant protein and seed oils and all sorts of crap left over on the factory floor um i i just like the the butchers who are coming around making uh meat based carrots and things like that hey look at this i formed this this hamburger into the into the shape of a carrot and like all that makes it a carrot you know so that's good you know and it's it's funniest man back when you know i i still thought that fat was bad for you uh there was a saturday night live thing where they had these like um i think it was like the show was called like two fat ladies or something like that and they're these you know these overweight ladies but they obviously you know like cooking and they had this cooking show and and saturday night live was was sort of making a joke on that and um so they have had people playing them and they were talking about like oh how are you trying to make like healthy food so you know talk about salad it was like it was you know salad was invented by an evil little man in the 1800s who like made us some fake backstory on it and they're like you know but they made it out of you know like you know some sort of like you know meat product or whatever and then they said like you know and then rice cakes are supposed to be very healthy for you but we don't have rice so we made them out of big fat these little patties of lard and you know it's funny you know because they're you're thinking that these people are unhealthy and they're cooking in a healthy way and it's not you know a silly portrayal of that the funny thing is is that everything that those people had actually put out and substitute of of like the salad and the uh and the rice cakes were like actually what's good for you which is like yeah you know sometimes well um well dude you've kind of just gotten back from ketocon um so how was it ketoco was great i really enjoyed it you know it was the first time i'd been to uh you know a convention like that um or really any comment i've sort of been through a couple conventions uh just of random things but never really spent much time there um and uh and so this one was really good there's a ton of really great speakers that have very interesting uh perspectives and points of view and brought you know a lot of great uh information and evidence uh for you know to support that their what they were talking about some they weren't even talking about that they were talking about you know building communities the importance of of uh you know of sticking together in a society uh especially through you know the lockdowns and the and the forced isolation and how harmful that can be uh both mentally and physically um so there's a but it was a bunch of really good things um it was um it was also really interesting just to meet everyone you know i was able to meet um you know all a whole bunch of different people that you know i'd spoken to on podcasts like you know judy cho dr baker um you know uh kevin stock and uh many many many many others um you know ate a um a day fox uh black carnivore and a ton of other people and and then meet new people you know that i hadn't uh uh you know interacted with before and hadn't met before like uh like um you know metabolic mic yeah yeah it turns out this guy yeah it turns out this uh that he um actually lives you know you know where i grew up in kirkland he's actually from he's actually from uh the same area uh where i grew up and he went to sort of a neighboring high school oh wow yeah and there were just like a few years apart so did you go back to his place and do the um icebergs and stuff yeah yeah yeah so he has a house uh in kirkland where i grew up um and you know everyone knows how much i love costco costco's kirkland's signature that's their brand name that's because the original costco is in kirkland and no one do you love costco so yeah yeah no it's like yeah it's been a part of my life for decades there we go and literally been going there since i you know for 30 years you know i've been since i was like nine years old and um and uh yeah so he has a house there it's a really cool step because it's in kirkland kirkland was getting you know very much developed but it's sort of still in this sort of uh really sort of wooded neighborhood area which is what kirkland really was for a long time uh which is nice so it's in kirkland it's very close to seattle but you feel like you're out you know in the in the country almost and he's got a cool setup there he's got this um wood-fired sauna which is awesome yeah and then this ice bath thing it was just like jesus christ that thing was cold yeah that was it was literally one degree and um and uh maybe a half a degree and so we were in the in the sauna you know for like you know i don't know half hour 40 minutes something like that you know got nice and toasty got a good sweat on and then just like punished ourselves by going this in this ice bath and you're going from that ex one extreme to the other like that that's like the wrong direction on those extremes like i don't want to like you don't be that hot you know that yeah well i'm i'm happy being hot but like going from really hot to like absurdly cold it's like it's a it's a big jump from just like room temperature outside atmosphere to you know going into the cold water like oh that's that's really cold but now you just like shocked your system because you are from a place you know it's like 170 degrees fahrenheit and you're going down into 33 degrees fahrenheit like yeah your body lets you know that there's something going wrong and um but you know like normally like with ice baths like you sort of numb up and you just sort of like okay i can get to the point where i'm like okay i can deal with this i did not know my i did not get it right i was handling this very well it's just like it just got more and more painful and uh and it yeah i was in there for like i don't know like three minutes or so and um something i always recount it felt like an eternity yeah but like by the time i was getting out like i was so cold i was like a like a lizard and torpor i was like i guess just like knees like bask i couldn't get up i was moving so slowly i was like struggling just to like pull myself i feel like you've definitely over died for your first kind of you know getting back into ice buds and sauna you've gone from zero to 100 straight up yeah yeah well was it because i went first and um i was like well how long are you supposed to stay in there oh as long as you want i'm like oh okay well get out now then and um but uh you know it's always just stayed in there and i was just like all right i'm gonna get i wanted to get to the point of just numbing up and being able to just like like carry it uh and eventually i was just like i was like okay i'm not coming it's not coming you know and so i ended up staying longer than uh than um some of the other guys do so apparently you know you don't need to stay in that long but it was um it got to the point where i was so cold out i i warmed up enough to be to realize how freezing i was my body just starts like just shaking and i was like trying to speak and like my voice was like shaky and and stuttering because like it got so cold but then uh you know warm up in the in the sauna yeah it's nice but then like my core was super cold and so i was like healing from the outside with the core on the inside was was uh super cold so um i don't know it was it was a weird contrast in it and but it felt good i had sort of a bit of a buzz you know i was like sort of like giddy and light-headed for for a while after that it was uh it was kind of interesting but yeah but you know meeting people like him and uh and everyone else it's it was that was a really good experience and then just going to the talks i really enjoyed the docs um it's a shame that they weren't able to record them yeah a lot that i knew that i couldn't see because i was engaged elsewhere and i was just like i would really like to see that how come they didn't record it sure they could they should sell like you know highlight video or access to it something like that yeah i think it's just a budgetary issue it does cost a lot to record these things and to you know get get like an av team to put them together and publish them out but um you know they you know because of covid you know they haven't been able to do this for the last couple years and you know the convention center uh said yeah yeah you can do it so they put all this money down and did all these deposits and people started buying tickets and then the convention said nope we're canceling it just cancel it didn't refund any money and so just yeah exactly and so you know the ketocon couldn't uh this is this is all this is all what i've heard through the grapevine anyway i don't i don't have any hard facts on this but what i heard was you know because you know the convention center canceled everything and didn't refund anything you know kegel kong you know couldn't refund all the money to people too and so that like really pissed people off and happened two years in a row and um and so like this year they didn't get the same numbers that they they have in previous years and their budget uh wasn't the same so it's um you know but it was still very popular it's still you know we have like you know two and a half three thousand people there so it was um yeah it was really good and you know for for you know keto convention it's still one of the larger ones um i think ketocon is the largest one um certainly has been in rece in previous years i feel like it could be so much bigger like you think about how big the kind of like keto paleo carnival movement is across the world um and it was in austin right and austin's a pretty desirable place these days like surely get 20 000 people through the door so to be interesting to see what they what they do next year because yeah hopefully hopefully i think this year was pretty good uh uh that would be happening yeah i think people were happy um and so hopefully you know it's yeah it just gets bigger and bigger um you know there are other sort of keto conferences like in you know in australia there's low carb down under uh which i'll be speaking at as well in october so it's like the weekend of october 16th is that on the gold coast the gold coast yeah all right i'll come to that yeah like the weekend of it yeah absolutely and uh yeah and you know anyone anyone in australia that's around you should definitely go there especially people up in queensland and anyone who's able to make the trip you know it's it's very very science-based you know like low carb down under was started by um uh you know really doctors in australia that were you know come across this and be like hey this is this is really good for patients this is really getting people better and you know we're really interested in science behind uh you know ketosis and getting into that metabolic state and then doing research and you have a ton of people uh you like dr paul mason um and uh you know baker's come over as well and um i think tim knox and even um even professor or thomas seyfried just interviewed he's done talks for low-carb demand as well and uh you know so this is it's a very very very uh based uh um you know conference and so it's um [Music] you know it is very interesting you know from for obviously doctors and clinicians and scientists but really because it's not it's not it's not going over your head there's a lot of these things that that are explained in very straightforward terms but they are they are backed by hard evidence you know so i think that's uh really appealing it's really appealing to me anyway and i've really yeah you think you've got me fired up that sounds great yeah did they like the sort of top top doctors talking um yeah and um so they've got they've got a really good lineup this year people can you know check them out online just i think it's just low carb down under uh dot com possibly dot a u but um people will find that top into google yeah and um you know but but it's very scientifically based and they have they have a big youtube page and like a bunch of talks on there and that and that's where they get a lot of their their um traction from is yeah i watched a lot of those videos like right yeah they are very very good they're very well presented and and they just they back it up they back up the facts you know and so that's that's the kind of thing that i like to see yeah dr dr mason and dr gary fetcher i think they've both got really good videos um are you anthony are you presenting yeah i'll be presenting yes happy okay yeah and uh yeah that's i mean that's how i came across uh you know dr paul mason i was very impressed it was very i really like his talks and just realized yeah i really i really like how he he presents things and and just the interesting sort of sort of things he's like hey check this out bet you never heard of that and it's like and it is a very very uh interesting addition and um yeah and so yeah so i'm really looking forward to that and hopefully looking you know meeting uh everybody there and uh hopefully giving a good talk that uh you there did i lose you yeah i could call you back now how was carnival received because obviously you know most of the people there i imagine would have been into the keto diet or or was it for like a carnivore conference or what was it well i i think there's there's a mix but um you know there was definitely a lot of carnivore um you know carnivore influenced people and people that were very you know uh interested in carnivore as well i think it's a logical it's a logical next step in keto um because what i mean you can do you can do a vegetarian keto obviously it's just no no carbs but uh most people do a meat based one i mean based high fat uh keto and diet most people do and then they just have vegetables and so they um you know they're understanding that meat is good fat is healthy is uh good for you and they recognize that you know carbs and sugar are bad for you like okay so that those things are bad for me it's you know then it's it's a very very short step too well there are other things that are bad for you too a lot of examples so i think a lot of people are getting interested in that and a lot of people especially on their sort of health journey and weight loss journey you know who go to keto they'll have very very good results but they'll sort of stall at a certain point they're like oh i'm not i'm so much better than i was but then i'm just not really getting over this hump of where i'm at and i go okay well maybe i'll try even cutting out even more going carnivore and then oh okay wow and that that just really you know takes them off um and that that is a growing group of people yeah like you know i think before doing the 30-day carnival challenge with you like i didn't realize how many people had you know they've given keto a go and now they want more and then as you say their results are plateaued uh and so now they really want to see what life would be like strict carnivore so many people you know and there must be tens of thousands of people who fall into that category out there and yeah they're curious yeah yeah and and you know and they're talking to each other you know they're in these keto forums they go to kyokon and they go to other you know low carb denver and and and whatever yeah yeah they talk to each other you know they're like wow yeah you know i went i went ultra keto uh aka carnivore and and i'm i'm even better than i was and so you know i think that's um you know the idea of plant talk uh is becoming more well-known in those communities especially you know very logical that people look at that and go okay hey there's more out there that that i need to cut out if i want to be optimal you know so yeah so a lot of people that were carnivore i certainly had a lot of people you know come up to me that have you know watched our podcast and watch our interviews and you know they'll see my youtube videos and all right yeah a ton of people and that i've interact with you know on social media and instagram and and facebook and that's was actually able to meet these people face-to-face which was really nice you know because like you know i really uh appreciated those interactions with people i really enjoy talking to people and and really excited for them uh when they you know tell me about you know all the different ways that their lives are improving by going carnivore which is it's really really nice to see and then you meet them in person and it's like it's even better because you're like you know you get to see the person there and talk to them [Music] face to face which i really enjoyed yeah yeah fantastic that'd be really satisfying um okay so definitely a lot of interest in carnival um yeah who did you is there anyone that you saw speak that you were really impressed by yeah well you know i obviously saw you know dr baker speak and um and you know he did did a great job as always he's he's he's an old hand at this um and he did a good talk on you know just sort of you're talking about food systems and uh you know there's this big push for this fake meat and the the grain based whatever and then like the you know the the sort of the attack on our on our our food supply lines and and our food systems and uh this sort of corruption of our food systems and so he gave a very interesting talk there you know and there was one guy in particular that i really enjoyed listening to was he was very very interesting was dr bill schindler who was an archaeologist and a professor of archaeology um he actually lived in dublin he was an adjunct professor at um university college in dublin which is sort of in human rights yeah yeah which is right right across the way from where i lived and um and so yeah he was very interesting and he you know did whole talk on um you know just the ancient peoples and cultures and civilizations and you know the tools that you use and how we you know the evidence for how we know what they ate and how they lived which is very strong and he you know even did a tutorial on how to make stone tools and how these ancient peoples millions of years ago and hundreds of thousands to millions of years ago made stone tools and the ones that they used and they actually they actually have very very hard evidence to show this is how they made the tools these are the tools they used this is the way that they used and uh making like obsidian knives and things like that obviously apparently i always knew it was sharp as hell but i didn't really realize how sharp it was it is the sharpest thing that exists that we that we can make it the the edge of the blade gets one molecule thick jesus christ so you can obviously split anything like that is obsidian like a type of rock or that's a rock yeah and it's uh it's brittle you know so you'll lose your edge pretty quickly but until you do that thing sharp and so we actually do use these things sometimes in like special like you know cosmetic surgery cases they'll use actual obsidian scalpels wow they have such a fine cut that they leave like you know perfect scope perfect but they they leave really really really fine scars or minimal scar minimal sparring because of just just how precise these things are so yeah it's very very interesting yeah he was making these things you know right there in front of us and so i really liked him he's i you know i did a couple things where i had like on instagram i had his book eat like a human um yeah you know and he just he just shows like hey you know this is this is how humans eat you know and um and so is is he kind of or a sort of paleo more paleo um but you know a lot of meat you know and um you know but you know he shows you know like this sort of thing people sort of had you know fermented um you know dairy products for a very long time and you know before that would really just have been eating meat but you know maybe some plants here and there but um you know mostly what we're just eating is meat and then you know certainly you know uh in the ice times you know i've come across people that have tried to argue uh you know because you know they say oh you have to have you know plants you have to have carbs you have to have you know fruit or honey uh you know to live and i just point out i was like how did that work during the ice ages you know how did that's coming to do it or the inuit and you know how do people come across you know the bearing straight um over the land bridge you know with all that and one of the common um rebuttals to that attempts at robotic is that they say like oh well you know when ice age came down everyone everyone moved towards the equator [ __ ] you know you know dr schindler actually showed very very clearly that that that the fossil record shows the opposite of that it shows that um it shows that um the people actually moved it up when the ice sheets were coming down but they moved up just pause this for two seconds it wasn't so but yeah so you know you know dr schindler showed that uh no when when the ice sheets were coming down people were moving up they were moving into the ice you know so that that just completely did raise him um he didn't say specifically in that um that instance but you know i mean we were mammoth hunters we were big game hunters we were going after uh the mega fauna and that's where they were you know and so you know and um you know we also had uh control of fire at that point you know and so you know it's like at least at night if you can find a cave or you can build an equal or something you've got to fire at night you can survive up there yeah well that's that's it you know they had obviously were getting furs from the the animals that they were hunting and they also you know had had fires apparently um you know we've had fires you know i when i looked this up a while ago and i was very interested in it you know that there was like you know records of like big hearth fires and cooked fires you know going back 800 000 years which is half a million years before homo sapiens existed but there's actually more evidence this goes back even further like one and a half million years at least maybe even two million years and so that's wild and um you know so but the fires were kept perpetually it wasn't like you were just starting a fire every day it was actually very difficult it ran all day all night all day all night so they banked the fire so it'd just be like some embers and then they'd you know feed some some tinder on it and grow it up and build it up and then they have this big fire so fire was going on for centuries maybe even thousands of years in certain cultures and uh but years anyway and and so it's um uh it was always kept going so fire was a very very important thing that was you know just as a complete aside i've always thought about you know mythology and and different stories um that we have in different cultures different creation myths um every single society has some sort of fire myth you know like prometheus giving fire to humans and zeus being angry at this because this would this would raise humans to the level of gods and they would rival the gods with their power because fire was so important um and all the other ones they did show how how extremely important fire was um and you think about this you think about the fact that fire we have you know very good evidence that fire's been around for one and a half million years maybe two million years that's incredible to think about because there were people alive with similar intelligence to us similar enough to be able to come up with myths and legends and pass down oral tradition and no people that were there before fire and how horrible and miserable that was and then after fire like whoa this just changes everything and and and remember that and just pass that down like this was the biggest deal that has ever happened to our people and and then that that myth gets passed on so these myths are probably millions of years old you know and obviously they were changed and transformed and sort of grown into their own that's like the ultimate technology shift isn't it it's like you know we we know people who knew life before the internet yeah yeah yeah and and some people who do life before electricity yeah a few generations ago yeah but yeah imagine that life life before we could harness fire we didn't just get down in bushfires but we could actually make one and we wanted one yeah and yeah so it was it was a major you know revolution like the industrial revolution or the the you know um technology revolution and you know that that was that was a that was the first major one you know i mean maybe you know tools it was it was a major revolution as well that changed things but fire was a big big one and so this just shows in our mythology as well and you know i think of other you know sort of creation myths you know like the the the aboriginal australians you know they have very very interesting stories uh about the dream time you know everything was a dream well i don't know enough about this but it's sort of has always interested me to think about it in in a way that maybe these you know there was there was a time and uh this is coming from a from an evolutionary standpoint obviously people um uh obviously you know um think of things in a creationist standpoint and that's fine but if you if we are thinking about things in an evolutionary standpoint there was a time when you know there were early humans and there were people that were not quite humans and they had intelligence that was separate from other animals but it wasn't quite on the level of being able to have you know like you know this consciousness that we have now so there was a shift at some point where you go from unconscious existence to conscious existence and you know you have this dream time while everyone was living in a dream it was just this sort of everything was nice and it's wonderful you're just going around running around the bushes and everything like that and then all of a sudden it's real and it's like okay we're now you're out of the dream and you're awake and and that might be talking about that shift and transition and consciousness um you know i hope i don't piss people off here but you know even thinking about things like you know adam and eve and the and the tree of knowledge and good and evil you know they were everything's happy and they're just living this you know uh you know nature's bounty and everything like that and eat this animal or this apple and all of a sudden they recognize that they're naked and they you know they they can they they understand the difference between good and evil that's a serious that's a serious concept you know it's it's not apparent that uh you know other animals in nature understand the concept of good and bad or morality they're just they're just worried about survival and protecting themselves and their family and that's it you know which is sort of moral in in many ways but but it uh it's obviously not as deep as the understanding that that we have or some of us have um so i just think that that might be explaining something like that where we were just sort of you know all out in nature and then all of a sudden they're like hey you know we're we're different there's something different here and you're naked and you probably put something on you know and uh so i think i i keep thinking like maybe this is these are explaining those transitions um but if you look at that that was millions of years ago millions and millions of years ago so i just i i don't know i think that's interesting anyway but uh other people may uh get upset at that oh i don't but it's just me sort of thinking out loud anyway yeah i don't know there's a lot to think about there isn't there and particularly when you're thinking in millions of years i certainly can't get my head around it you know it's hard enough thinking sort of 2 000 years back but thinking yeah millions of years back is very challenging yeah well you know i mean look at look at you know uh the iliad and the odyssey these were created before we had a written tradition these were prehistoric poems and they were you know in um you know in very complex um i think it's like hexameter uh verse like it was very very intricate and brilliant poetry that was passed down orally there's like a thousand pages to the iliad you know and the and the same to the odyssey it was a big big long and there were poems the whole way through and people were memorized these things and those weren't the only thing they memorized you know they had a lot of other things in their head as well and so you know and you know gilgamesh and all these things gilgamesh is interesting that's one of the earliest written uh stories that we have and it's a time you know like six thousand years ago or more or that's when it was written six thousand anyway a long ass time ago and it um it talks about a city in modern day iraq uh or thereabouts that was in this lush fields and forests and everything like that in this city with these old walls that are older than anyone could remember and these ancient cities ancient walls all these sorts of things and this is an ancient ancient story that's talking about how old their civilization was you know i just think that's interesting and that was uh they're saying it's like two and a half thousand bc yeah okay so like yeah so like 4 500 years ago exactly yeah yeah and they they thought they were anxious at the time we go back a long way don't we yeah yeah yeah oh and they they probably were ancient yeah well you're sorry yeah they could acknowledge that they were yeah yeah you know like you know the pyramids some of these things are like 5 000 years old and so you know you had a you had a very very you know established sophisticated thriving society that was able to build these these monoliths you know so i mean we're lucky today because we can still get a glimpse into into what people have been doing for these thousands of years when i was on the plane coming back from europe i watched this great taco about inuits and it was like these it was like these inuit kids who'd gone to western school in the town nearby and then in the school holidays they go back to visit their family and so it's like four kids and uh you know the oldest kid jumps on there um not jet ski what do you call them what do you call them jet ski that's a snowmobile they've got like this crate in the back that's on skis the other three kids jump in the back of the crate and then he just drives them back to his village it takes him like 10 hours going along these paths and like you know just in the white wilderness but he instinctively knows where he's going until he eventually gets to the tinted teepee or the home in the middle of just vast emptiness uh and it's it's literally it's wooden poles and then they've got reindeer skins all the way around and to enter mum and dad are there they've now got three new siblings so there's like it's a big family now fire and fire in the in the middle blankets everywhere and and welcome home and then the first thing they do the next day is like to celebrate having all the all the kids there the seven kids they go to the rainbow the reindeer herd um kill one of the reindeer uh and then butcher it in the snow and just tuck into the raw reindeer meat and that's like you know welcome home you need your strength yeah and yeah they're all they're like they don't say they say that every little bit of it like they're collecting the blood yeah you know in like little canisters and they're eating the kidneys and livers yeah the amazing that's still still taking place today yeah yeah yeah and that's the thing you know i mean this is how people lived for you know so many generations and [Music] you know and again you know where where were the the fruit and honey and carbs and celery and everything like that up up there and in the the arctic north like just didn't exist you know and um you know so yeah it's it's always interesting to see how these these people lived and it's always great to see you know uh people caught it you know that was that was sort of thing with you know bill schindler was like you know this guy knows you know how these people live he did a show actually on um national geographic that um i think it's available on amazon prime uh you for purchase i was actually planning on on on buying the season of it uh it was called uh the great human race and saw that on his website yeah yeah and so he they took him around like i know six seven years ago and um went to these different parts of africa it's like okay you know this many millions of years ago our ancestors were here and they had these stone tools they had this technology and he and the partner would just like live out there like that and then go to a different part okay now you're you know 500 000 years in the future you have these stone tools and this these are the stone tools that these people would have had this is the technology that would have had and this is how they would have lived and they just show it they just live out there like these people and and they just you know keep going and going and going and uh so it sounded sounded really really cool and so this is all uh evidence based you know so it's uh yeah it's very very interesting uh seeing that sort of thing and seeing how people live and just seeing this it's like this is i mean it's as i said in my talk this was never uh controversial before very recent times you know that humans were carnivores or apex predator i i i was taught that when i was a school kid humans are apex predators top of the food chain this i mean there's an abundance of evidence for this that then you know this was just a very well established fact it's only been challenged and it's fair to challenge things that's fine you bring new evidence to the table and that changes your understanding of something challenge away but this was uh a challenge of another sort which was you know the the vilification of meat via cholesterol from the sugar companies and this was fraud this was based on fraud so now there's this commercial aggression towards uh meat and eating meat in order to perpetuate their own vested interests in sugar and plant-based products and so you know that's a very different challenge and it's a very people are getting very sick because of it very very sick you know i think that this these sorts of uh things like you know that that usda declaration has probably caused more harm and suffering than nearly anything else certainly in in you know my my understanding of history you know you're talking about billions of people that have been you know completely derailed in their health living shorter lives getting sick and fat and unwell and suffering and having depression and anxiety and psychiatric illnesses um you know bad joints painful arthritis bad backs you know needing to get spinal fusions and surgeries diabetes autoimmune issues you know you know defecating just blood 20 times a day even with medications rheumatoid arthritis where you get such bad arthritis that your your joints decay and deform to where they're not recognizable or even usable anymore and and then you know alzheimer's and autism where your our children's brains aren't developing properly and they're they're living their entire lives in a truncated fashion where they wouldn't have had to they didn't need to this shouldn't have happened and then you know people growing up and losing their faculties and elderly uh becoming dependent and ridden in homes and dependent on nursing care facilities and getting to the point where they they can't even control their own their own defecation and waste and they need to be changed and and uh cleaned like a child and a diaper you know it's such an undignified way and then they to live and then they die you know that the amount of suffering this has caused and the amount of human years lost is incalculable it's absolutely staggering [Music] well there's a clear message get off the prices [ __ ] well you know and you know just like you know i mean i i obviously am for a very strict carnivore diet because i think that's optimal i think that humans certainly can eat other things and probably have eaten other ways in you know historically prehistorically but generally it's because they needed you you know and and and it was you know a lot of the the records are such that that you know the primitive populations alive now or in the last few hundred years they've only eaten plants when they've absolutely had to uh or used it medicinally and so if you're looking for optimization you know i i definitely think that uh carnivores def is the way to go um that will give you the most bang for your buck the most nutrients and uh the most benefit and none of the downfall that that plants are going to give you with the defense chemicals so that's definitely going to be um you know what i promote and what i what i um you know try to try to recommend to people and sort of what i'm going to do yeah and you do a very good job uh sort of to add to that to add to that um a lot of the people who follow you uh and love listening to you they have major health issues uh and the best way for them to overcome in my opinion from my experience the best way for them to overcome and regain their health is through strict carnivore and you know it's a total elimination diet and prioritizing nutrient dense meat and fat um that isn't inflammatory and doesn't cause issues with your gut or your joints or your mental health it really soothes and satiates your body yeah so you know that's it's such an effective message for those people who are suffering from mental health diabetes obesity uh arthritis alzheimer's all those things that you mentioned before yeah and then and like and autoimmune as well what i mean i mean these things just just melt away like they just they just disappear yeah this is a direct cause of eating the wrong thing you know of eating plants that cause harm that cause these autoimmune reactions and you remove the precipitating factor which is the you know fruits and vegetables and grains and then the problem goes way this is why you know i don't think these diseases are diseases they're poisonings they're toxicities they're um and malnutrition you know and um i i think that that's starting to gain traction i've heard more people saying that recently and i i really hope that that that message continues to go i think the person that proves that and like shows that clinically that these things are not diseases these are poisonings um you know would be deserving of a nobel prize in medicine you know and uh but that but that is it you know um you know that's that's you know my theory anyway i sort of had an aha moment sort of like four years ago where all of a sudden clicked in like holy geez like that's that's what this is like these aren't diseases like this we're just being poisoned and that's and we're treating poisoning as a disease and we're trying to get medicine for poison which yeah you can have some some medicines that mitigate some some toxins but the but you don't keep ingesting the toxin you know you don't just take medicines oh yeah they take this medicine then just just keep drinking lead like no oh sorry i'm gonna have to go okay all right well let's let's let's wrap that thanks anthony we'll try again soon [Music]