MMA Fighter Rhalan Gracie's Secret Diet For Top Performance!

welcome to the plantree MD podcast with Dr Anthony chaffy where we discuss diet and nutrition and how this affects health and chronic disease and show you how you can use this to optimize your health and happiness both mentally and physically hey everyone thanks for joining this is Dr Anthony chaffy here with another episode of plant-free MD today I have a very special guest Alvaro Campos goes by the SF ninja and Holland Gracie a professional MMA fighter uh thanks guys for coming on it's great to have you on thanks for having us thank you Dr shy honored to be here real excited looking forward to it awesome well for for those who haven't come across you guys can you can you each give us just a bit of a brief intro on who you are and and what you guys do go first sure I'll go first my name is Alvaro Campos I have an extensive background in sports primarily I start off with break dancing or breaking for about 20 years and that's what got me into the Whole Health realm from my own knee surgeries and injuries I found paleo early on in 20067 or so I started off studying under pul Che for good amount of years and slowly started getting into uh different forms of physical therapy nutrition exercise science and finally led me to functional medicine and then I started competing in Ninja Warrior for a while uh and then found Jiu-Jitsu and here we are 20 years later nice my name is Howen Howen Gracie I'm uh the grandson of one of the founding fathers of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu Brazilian jiu-jitsu uh U Gracie and the son of Grandmaster hson Gracie um you know competed you know all growing up and you know growing up through the black belt and the ranks and then now actively pursuing MMA and uh I ran across the a road through the Jiu-Jitsu Academy and he's also my my personal trainer now and I guess you call him my nutritionist and uh I guess you know what brought us what brought us here is you know because Alvaro is an active carnivore and um you know I've in the Gracie family we we do have a diet you know we follow the Gracie diet which a lot of people have heard of and it's got its you know own principles and stuff like that but you know I've been exploring this carnivore uh diet and uh playing with it and it's it's pretty interesting so I think that's how we kind of ran across each other and this is happened yeah very cool and so have you been have you been doing carnivore yourself trying that out or or just leaning towards it uh I can't say I'm 100% carnivore but I'm definitely working in that direction um definitely increase a lot of my meals to meat meals um definitely staying away from uh like seed oils uh canola oil soybean oils um trying to definitely stay away from anything processed anything that can last on the shelf for a long period of time um so uh I guess you know in the in the Gracie family we we are we were more and are more open to fruits um and you know they they do you know we do like a good share of veggies but I've definitely you know since talking to to Alvaro and and kind of working on this new experiment and rebuilding my body in a way I'm definitely and working more towards a full carnivore diet um but I'm not going to lie and say I am a full carnivore that's that's this guy right here this yeah cool well I mean look I mean even even going like obviously you guys have have a meal plan sounds like it's all like Whole Foods and things like that so that's that's all obviously already in a great Direction and then just focusing more on meat and then Less on the other stuff is I think is probably going to do do wonders for you already have how have you felt in your own self and training uh since making those those adjustments dude I felt great I felt amazing um one thing that that so we've always like a lot of meat and I've always ate a lot of like barbecues uh you know Brazilians we we like a good share of meat so that's never been so much issue but one thing I did find very interesting is I would I would cut the fat off the meat a lot you know that would be something I always be cutting the fat off and I guess that's where all the testosterone building blocks are at you know the good saturate uh uh saturated fat saturated fat and good cholesterol which will help build with you know the muscle mass and the testosterone so I definitely find myself um my mental activity is very high uh I feel I feel like uh very clean clean headed um I feel like I sleep less at times but I'm more rested and more well recovered um I can go long periods without eating but still perform and not feel like I'm having like a mental kind of barrier or like a mental fogginess um been doing a lot of bone broths you know definitely a lot of broths and I love to cook so you know I I uh I enjoy it you know chicken broth and you know beef beef merrow bone beef merrow broth and um you know he says that helps with my ligaments and you know kind of you know keeping my ligaments strong and stuff like that so I've noticed more shredding in my body definitely more shredding going on um nothing but positive results to be honest weight has gone up muscle mass muscle mass has definitely gone up and that's you know we are looking work towards a 200 pound you know muscle mass and I fight usually at 170 but I felt like 170 for you know I'm 62 and a half so 17s you know it's a it's a cut you definitely got to slim down and uh you know I feel like if we can build more muscle mass with this kind of lean you know Muscle High carnivore uh but still keep my energy levels up dense muscle fiber I would be a healthier 185 as opposed to a skinny 170 yeah went up fast like 10 pounds in two months all most eaing meat yeah yeah yeah that's that misconception of people thinking that we can't gain muscle mass on a carnivore diet is very skewed unfortunately you have people like yourself Dr Anthony chaffy and other guests I've seen that are clearly doing it and it's a matter of being persistent and knowing what you're doing but it does work we don't need to eat carbohydrates to build muscle yeah absolutely against what we've been t for many years right through the gym gym science yeah and from what what I was kind of listening to you say about it you were a high LEL rugby player right you played rugby at a high level yeah yeah and you know if I'm mistaken didn't weren you saying that like you're at your highest performance you were full carnivore yeah I would say so yeah in my early 20s I was I mean as as far as athleticism absolutely i' I've never been as athletic been able to put out as much on the field and off the field than when I was in that you know 20 to 25 when I was just do when I was just eating carnivore uh after that you know I would still you know I had more experience at that point but I didn't have the fitness level I didn't have the endurance level I didn't have the the same explosiveness that I did I was still you know I could still play at a very high level but I remember thinking to myself like why why don't I feel is just super human amazing as I normally do and I didn't know what it was I was like well am I not pushing myself I'm not training hard enough I'm I'm now in my late 20s am I just dying now is that it you just hit 25 and it's just downhill from there you know and um I didn't know but then I looked back on it when I was 38 and sort of came across this again and I was just like Wait no that's where I was doing I was only eating meat I was I was just living as a carnivore which is biologically what we're supposed to do and that's when I've never felt better in my entire life and so I just cut out all the veggies at that point I was really only just eating veggies and meat lean meat and not that much of it started eating a lot more meat a lot of fat and no veggies and I felt like I was 22 again you know and I was 38 I was out of shape I was sort of like 273 LBS or something like that which instantly dropped like 23 lbs in 10 days and then just started like getting just shredded after that I stayed the exact same way because I offset the the fat I was losing with the muscle I was gaining so I stayed that was like 243 every day for months and I just felt amazing and after two weeks on on Carnivore even though I was like you know overweight and and not in shape I just come back from Bangladesh doing humanitarian work there so I hadn't worked out in months I was just like yep I'm I'm going to play rugby again and so I went out and and started uh playing with with my my team in Seattle the sarens that turned into the Sea Wolves which is like the professional team there now so I was there playing with these guys that are get you know getting into a professional season the first professional season in the Major League rugby and um having not run in months and months and months I was able to just keep up being dead Sprint you know do well on the fitness tests even though I I you know really wasn't fit I really couldn't do it it was all diet but like my body even though I was had not been training all that much or all that long I was able to be very competitive and just I just felt amazing so yeah it was that was just night and day difference for me as an athlete hey guys just want to take a second to thank our sponsor carnivore bar I don't promote many products because honestly all you need to be healthy is to just eat meat for those times that you're out hiking road tripping or stuck at work and you want a nutritious snack that is just meat fat and salt if you want it the carnivore bar is a great option so I like this product not because it's just pure meat but also because I want the carnivore Market to thrive as well and the more more we support meat only products the more meat only products there will be available in the mainstream so if this sounds like something you'd like to get behind check it out using my discount code Anthony to get 10% off which also applies to subscriptions giving you 25% off total all right thanks guys when you were in your highest level competing what was your weight what was your weight at on your full carnivore diet it would it would fluctuate um but I was usually between 220 and 230 and and it would be difficult for me to keep on weight during the season especially because I didn't realize at that point how suppressed my Hunger signals were comparatively to when I was eating carbohydrates so there was there was a time there that I just I just was not eating enough and um and I got I got very underweight I was I was probably like 190 or something like that I It lost like a significant amount of of weight like my upper body was very slender my legs were like tree trunks but like my upper body like you know just uh slimmed down like way too much and um and I remember just just thinking I was I was getting to the point like it was like every training I was just like I feel better I feel sharper I feel faster I feel stronger and then it got to the point where I was just like every training actually like took me down a notch and I was like what the hell is going on I was like it must be because I'm just not eating enough I'm just really not eating enough but I was just like but I'm just not hungry I'm just not hungry I don't know what the hell is going on and I was like I just got to eat it doesn't matter if I'm hungry or not and uh you know and every time I did eat you know meat always tasted great eggs always tasted great and but I I just never felt hungry in the traditional sense and so it wasn't until later that I realized that that taste is a better marker and you have to relearn these hunger signals so once I was able to sort of catch up I was able to sort of maintain 220 to 230 and that but I was I was sort of younger and so I hadn't really fully fleshed out my frame but then when I started you know after that when I started s eating a mixed diet like I could I could go up to like 260 270 in the offseason and then then slim down to like 245 230 and things like that during the season um but now that I'm back on Carnivore I'm I'm consistently to around 230 again and then if I'm like really lifting weights and really you know uh making an effort to go to the gym regularly I'll get up to like 240 and then sort of still hover around 2 230 to 240 yeah it's kind of say because one of my concerns that I had brought up to Alo is that you know I mean we do do a lot of movement you know we're always moving you know how can I get enough calories right that's always the thing you got to kind of have a caloric you know demand and he was like look at all like the kind of Predator type animals they all eat high fat foods the Sharks the Bears they all like those fatty seals right and so I I was eating a riy one day like I just had a big old rib by went to Whole Foods about like a two pounder yeah nice and then I got curious I was like how many calories in a 2B rib and it was literally like I think 3,000 calories 3,000 a little over 3,000 calories so I mean and the most caloric part of the of the meat is the fat content right so that that's why because he was always man don't you know don't be shy with the fat you know go ahead you know you're going to burn it off it's it's it's good fats it's it's it's from the meat it's from the animal and don't be shy with that and so I started kind of looking and I was like dude that does make sense like all the Predators like high fat even the the grizzly bear love salmon which is a pretty fatty fish it is yeah right I heard for the most part that they eat the more fatty parts of the salmon will throw the rest won't even finish the whole salmon it'll just go to the next salmon and get the fatty part of that salmon and then throw the the the leftover the salmon but so they do have you know the Predator like the kind of and even like we were talking about the Wolves and the lions that they'll go for the Prime parts of the animal of the kill the alpha will get the prime part of that kill whether it be the liver right where it's got like all the nutrients and like the vitamin B12 and all that Alpha type stuff you know and uh and then you'll leave the rest for the rest of the pack you know but and like the orcas we were talking about right the orcas will literally K the great white shark just for its liver it won't eat nothing else it'll just take the Li and the rest the shark you know so it's very interesting how these kind of powerful animals have a very specific kind of ability to go for the prime part of their catch yeah and oh sorry go ahead no no sorry I now go on please no that's that's that's pretty much you can go ahead that's fine okay um I was I was just going to add to that uh with the killer well thing because I did see one thing they they yeah they're going after the great whites going for the liver and apparently they also pre on other whales uh but they'll go for like the calves they won't go for like the the the big ass whales which I don't know why they wouldn't I mean they're sitting ducks I mean a lot of those big whales maybe they can thrash around hit you with their tail but they're not as Dynamic and and you know mobile as like a killer whale would be but they go they would go after like the young ones the pups and but they wouldn't eat the whole thing which which is strange they'll go for the tongue and like the lower jaw they'll just eat the tongue and the lower jaw and then they just like leave the rest to like you know just float away and like you know the mom's just thinking like geez really just for that you know just like K his tongue and that's it so um yeah they're they're very specific on what they want and um and yeah and most most animals really do go for fatty meat so like like lions um will yeah go for the for the abdomen you know you get like the belly fat like that's where bacon comes from it's much more fat and then the you know in abdominal fat around the organs and then they'll generally leave like the quarters which are Super lean and the hyenas will come in they'll finish those off and then they'll actually because their jaws are strong enough they'll crack open the the you know femur and and get into the marrow and that's where a lot of fat is and that's something that I remember hearing when I was a kid about the Native Americans when they would go hunting you have someone just going off on a hunt on their own and it's not like a whole big party that's that's you know you know get getting a whole bunch of meat they take down a deer they would you know skin it dress it and they would actually leave the hind quarters and leave it up in the tree as like a as like an offering blessing to like the spirits and things like that as a thank you but what does that also doing that's leaving the most lean parts that aren't really going to be as easy to bring back if you're if you're tracking back hundreds of pounds of meat on your back and it's just you you know maybe you just leave leave the the less uh you know desirable Cuts you know and it seem to be those were the lean ones yeah and you know like when we talk about animals and stuff they're eating for survival right they can't just go to a market a supermarket anytime they want they eat when they eat's good and then when it's no eat it's like they got to kind of weather that storm so I think they have this innate ability to pick if I can only fit this much food in my belly what's going to give me the most return right and I think a lot of times there's history in humans that we follow our ancestors and there's kind of traditions and like meals and kind of different recipes that are pass along that might be kind of you know might sound unappealing like I love oxtail stew right in oxtail but some like oh oxtail that don't sound too good but then if you look at oxtail there is a lot of good fat in the oxtail there's also like some of like you know when you boil it down the the nutrients that come out of the bone and maybe some of the merrow that's all so it's it's you know in my family we we eat that a lot but yeah it's it's it's like uh I think there is you know um especially when you come in from ancestry and like believing what your elders there's there's certain things that are passed on that are for a reason right and that you know we might not oh that might not sound very it might taste great but when we listen it might not sound very good but then when you're eating for necessity and eating for survival as opposed to knowing you can go to the supermarket any day and just buy whatever you want you start to really get picky with what you're actually consuming and what's worth your time and energy right as opposed to just eating whatever because you know you can go to the supermarket in about 10 minutes if you get hungry again or order something on you know Uber Eats or whatever it may be you know and of course that might not always be the healthiest option but I think when you eat for necessity you're going to pick the liver you know what I'm saying you're going to pick the fatty part of the belly you know because that's going to give you the most caloric and highest nutrients out of all the animal that you just caught you know yeah so it's pretty interesting yeah definitely and um yeah so how so since you've done that I mean you you've obviously started putting on weight you started putting on muscle and so that that sort of you know shows that you know what we're talking about is is um a viable workable option for highlevel professional athletes which is which is what I hear often is like okay well I I do uh different sorts of training I play sports I'm an athlete like is this going to be good for me and and uh I I mean that's Pro positive right there you know you're you're an elite level athlete and uh and this is this is working well for you and I think that the important thing is too is it is providing lean muscle mass which is the difference like you could bulk up faster and and just put on more weight by eating a bunch of carbs you could maybe but it it's you're you're going to have fat inter mix with that it's not going to be lean lean body mass and it's not going to be lean muscle mass you know that that's then going to have to like slim down and cut down so you you lean down you're going to lose most of that and uh whereas now the weight you're putting on that's not going anywhere like that's still lean body mass that's just that's just hard muscle that's not going anywhere you see that glycogen stores in people that eat excessive carbohydrate and they have that puffy look it's not that lean shreded explosive look it's that puffy yeah and it's CPL with muscle and yeah it may fool some people as far as sizewise but we know that's inflammation we know that it's a fat that goes on with the muscle and then they have to yo-yo that that style right they bulk and cut bulk and cut that messes with your enzymes that messes with your adrenals it throws your body off it's really not healthy at all it's not sustainable they're constantly chasing their tail with bulk cut bulk cut the carnivore diet is you just exist you follow the diet you eat it it's it's it's a lifestyle it's a way of being um it works for athletes we have to we have to show it and live it and practice it and actually show that it does work with athletes some are scared because they don't understand it but we're actually doing it and it's working and we're showing it to more athletes we have a bunch of different athletes we work with at the gym from different levels that are competing and I'm putting them on these diets and what differs from most people trying it is that they're not lab testing they're not looking at their minerals they're immediately flipping out when things become imbalan but you have to keep an eye on these things uh Paul said if we're not uh testing we're guessing and it's true so we have to kind of see where those minerals are you can't just say it's the diet that messed things up because they have what 20 30 years of their life of eating a standard American diet they jump in a carnivore and then blame carnivore for whatever happened in the next two or three weeks and most of the time it's not even that they can't do the diet they can't Sugar Detox they cannot get off the sugar they don't realize what sugar's in until they start cutting it out and having to monitor what they eat or you give them a a continuous GL glucose meter and they start realizing what's firing off their blood sugar all day long and once you cut that out I think that's the hardest part for most people is to get off of sugar and when they realize what sugar is that's the hardest part it's not eating animal Foods because when you tap into that I call it mastering your Matrix when you stabilize your blood sugar because it's not about deprivation people have this idea that diet is all about restriction it's not if you're eating animal Foods we feel great we had a pound and a half of ribeye earlier and a pound of skirt steak we cooked it up and dipped it in GE salt and it was amazing the best felt good stable blood sugar and we went to go do jiujitsu after this concept of red meat being heavy is is ridiculous I can eat a steak and then go walk to the gym and work out and be perfectly fine and have no issues a lot of these diets people try because there there's a there's vanity behind it but for some of us it was out of necessity I had thyroid issues I had alopecia I had gut issues this is on a Paleo diet still eating nuts still eating vegetables at the time and so at a necessity I'm like I can't do this anymore like I can't eat these things they're really aggravating me it was almonds uh fake sugars monk fruit uh Stevia I was getting acne I have photos of acne it's all gone everything that I complained of or had symptoms of um even autoimmune disorders thyroid issues all because of eating uh certain plants that were in my diet and I was paleo I cut out most things for a long time and when I went fully carnivore skin cleared up you get shredded veins are popping out all over the place naturally but more importantly feel good you have this higher level of energy and you emanated and people are attracted to that it's scary though for some of the new clients because I've as actually lost some clients that have their cognitive dissonance and this seems too radical for some people but for the most part I've had a great it's it's good for my career because I have a lot of Transformations not just through physiques which is really important but uh reversing autoimmune disorders reversing things that their doctors are supposed to be doing and a trainer nutritionist is doing it um almost instantly it happens it does it itself the body knows what to do when you give it the right environment it has that innate response we just have to create the lane and remove the interferences when those are gone and you're on a Carnival die you feel great um and so that one thing that he was telling me like when he first started talking like all the things that are going to make you sick are somehow plant-based right the soybean oil the canola all of it is somehow coming from a plant it's not really coming from a meat or an animal it's coming from the plant so then I started looking I was like man all these breads like you go to a a supermarket you look at man all the breads are like 40 different things in that bread it's and soybean oil is everywhere for you to find a bread without soybean oil you have to go to like a specific Market that's like you know but so it's like got him reading the labels reading the labels now and see that I'm like you can everything has soybean oil or Canola or even if it says olive oil or avocado oil we know that UC Davis did a study that 82% of avocado oil available is cut with other oils and even some of them were 100% soybean oil so if you have an 18% chance of getting a real avocado oil that's like I don't think you'd want to take your chances with 18% on anything in your life if that was the the refence right that's it's really low it's a low bar so I've taught him to assume that everything has some form of seed oil or or industrialized seed oil which is way waste right in it until you could prove that it's not in there and not to mention that like you see like a lot of the sicknesses that are happening nowadays ADHD diabetes all these heart attacks man I've seen I mean in the last year or two the amount of heart attacks and strokes that has gone up like people I know right and I don't know what it's related to but it's incredibly it spiked up incredibly I would have never thought 28 year olds getting Strokes yeah are you serious it's unheard of never heard of that before so and a lot of these sicknesses like in diabetes and and and and you know a lot of them are pretty new they're not that old I don't know if this diabetes and stuff and I mean you guys can correct me if I'm wrong but I don't know if diabetes has been around for hundreds of years it seems to be a kind of a fairly new thing to me uh in terms of the amount of people that are getting it and developing it you know and and I mean so that kind of goes back to like what were the people before what were the the the kind of primitive indigenous people what kind of what kind of problems did they deal with and what were they eating and I don't I mean you know I could be wrong but I I don't think they were dealing with heart attacks at the rate that we're dealing with heart attacks I don't think they're dealing with diabetes at the rate that we're dealing with diabetes ADHD kids can't even sit still anymore and then the parents are trying to put the kid to sleep give him a Coca-Cola and then they're wondering why the kid don't fall asleep it's it's you know and so he you know he gives me a lot of information or he shows me like cool like you know research and information about more like indigenous type people the Messiah right you talk a lot about the Messiah uh and kind of like man these people don't have doctors everywhere they don't they're just eating you know a lot of you know maybe certain specific meats that they raise some fish you know some eggs they might have like a potato or something that grows on their land naturally locally naturally off their land but they're not getting gummy bears they're not you know what I'm saying eating Skittles for breakfast lunch and dinner Doritos you know it's this big bit big money big business you know trying to you know catch your eyes and make it all colorful and you walk in the supermarket and man 90% of what's in that market is is not good for you it's not not good for you and then they Wonder well why do I got diabetes why do I got you know why am I having a you know heart problems or cholesterol I mean it's yeah it's uh it's interesting man it got me thinking yeah well it's yeah it is um it is funny when people say Well it must be genetic it just must be there but you know we we've been tracking dise diabetes rates for you know well over 100 years and in fact the ketogenic diet was was found to be the only thing that could keep like type 1 diabetics alive in the you know late 1800s early 1900s before we were able to uh you know produce insulin and and keep these people alive so that was the only thing that was able to prolong life was putting people on a ketogenic diet uh for type 1 diabetes and even with type two diabetes it perfectly controls blood sugar and and we've known this for decades and decades and decades and decades and now we've proven that clinically large human trials recently showing you can actually reverse type 2 diabetes get people off medication get them off insulin with just a ketogenic diet which you know carnivore diet is a ketogenic diet uh if you do it just mean water and so you know yeah and the the disease prevalence has gone way up you know just since the 19 yeah early 1980s type two diabetes rates in America has have gone up by sixfold right that's huge and it used to be called adult onset diabetes because it was really only happen in like people middle age or late age and usually alcoholics and they were getting this adult onset diabetes and it was it was quite rare actually and then in the 90s I remember as a kid there was um there was a new story came out there's like oh there's like these 10-year-olds getting adult onset diabetes but but they're not an adult they're 10 you know how can they get how can a kid get adult onset diabetes and they have fatty liver disease but only alcoholics get fatty liver disease you know so and this kid's never drank alcohol he's 10 and so you know they instead of thinking about it and going okay well what changed in our environment what what's happening to this kid what has affected him that that maybe has influenced this they just said now you know we've probably just not noticed it we've probably just been missing it it's probably happening all the time and we've just misdiagnosed a bunch of you know type you know type twos is type ones and they so they just reamed it type two diabetes and and non-alcoholic fatty liver disease and um that that of course is uh I think just a lazy way of doing it and and since then you know you could you could argue maybe that was happening before that but since the 1990s we've been very focused on this and we've said hey well this can just happen anywhere and so they they were really on time you need pretty serious medications for these diseases and these illnesses so you know it's not like this this is just going to go under the radar you know um so then we were tracking this very carefully and the rates are going up and they're still going up and they're still going up and they're still going up so obviously there's an environmental impact and you know saying that this is just genetic well that doesn't make sense because our genetics haven't changed the population in two generations doesn't work like that unless you have like a massive genocide or die off or you huge influx of population from one area to another you can't change the the percentages of these genes in a population you just can't you know that that's just population genetics 101 um and so you know that's that that doesn't explain that because these rates were much much lower uh prior to that and you know you were talking about the messai and specifically with diabetes there there was you know we talking about you know what these guys are eating well they were obviously eating you know milk blood and and Men meat and there was a great study I I think honestly well it's the only one that I know of that actually Compares what we're trying to talk about which is a whole food meat-based diet with a whole food plant-based diet because all the other studies you know excoriating uh meat or or you know singing the Praises of plants and more fruits and vegetables you know they're they're they're comparing apples oranges because they're saying you if you eat more fruits and vegetables and you stop eating processed food things get better like well no no kidding like I'm I'm not shocked by that at all and they you know and they put meat in the basket with fast food and pizza because there's sometimes meat on the toppings of pizza therefore Pizza is meat and they're not calling that processor they're just calling that meat and uh you know fast food like Burger King McDonald's they're saying oh well there's meat in there that's meat it's like well no there's fries you know you know deep fried and Seed o used to be deep fried trans fats I mean that was I mean Jesus that's just death on a stick and uh and then you know a big soda with a bunch of sugar or artificial sweeteners which is not great either and they're saying that well that's meat it's the meat doing that well there's like 900 different things in there besides the meat and so obviously you can't just call it that and so he said oh when you eat more fruits and vegetables when you eat more fiber things get better it's like well who's not eating fiber it it's it's you and I uh and and we make up you know not. z0000 1% of the population right and all the other people that aren't eating fiber the ones eating processed foods fast food and junk food because they don't have fiber in it right because you can't you can't freeze things with fiber in it and then ship it all over the world because it just it gets all Meely and weird so they don't they don't put fiber in these things and so if someone's not eating a lot of fiber it's because they're eating a bunch of junk food right and so of course you're going to do better if you're not eating junk food you eat less junk food you're GNA have less less issues so but they conflate that with more fiber is good for you more fruits and vegetables are good for you no no less junk food is good for you right and so a really good uh look at that was uh it's an older study it's back from 1931 but it was it was published in top medical journals Journal of the American Medical Association and it was done by the Brits and they looked at the Messi and uh their neighbors neighboring tribe which was the akuu and the really interesting part about this was that the akuu actually intermarried with the Messiah so they were genetically similar populations and they were mostly plant-based but Whole Food plant-based this wasn't industrial Farms there wasn't industrial pesticides and herbicides and and fertilizers and all that sort of garbage it was just there's like a vegan's dream they're just out on a commune just eating tubers and leaves and things and fruits and things like that and and they compared the two and they found that there were massive ma massive health and developmental disparities so the msai adult males on average were 5 inches taller 23 pounds heavier of lean muscle body mass and 50% stronger on average and that the akuu had a lot of other uh serious health issues they were have a high rate of diabetes they were getting uh infections more often they're getting chest infections L lung infections or getting ulcers uh tropical diseases obviously you're in Africa you're going to be you know just complet you know constantly surrounded by by different sorts of tropical diseases uh and they had a lot of uh nutritional deficiencies as well a lot of vitamins and minerals that uh you know they that they were lacking they were all anemic they didn't have enough iron they didn't have enough B12 all these sorts of things like they still ate some meat which is probably the only thing keeping them alive but predominantly they were eating this you know these plants and they found the researchers found that just by supplementing the vitamins and minerals that they were lacking actually didn't improve their health outcomes they didn't they were still getting sick they were still getting the diabetes all these sorts of things but if they replaced what they were eating with meat started giving them more meat and giving more what like the Messi were eating cleared up you know obviously they weren't going to you know grow five Ines you know they growth placeat for clothes but you have to get that in development and that's so important for kids as well is that you have to get nutrition right from the get-go unfortunately you know we we sort of lost our chance we've developed how our our bodies can develop and and we can optimize where our bodies are now but you know if we if we came to this when we were two or our parents came to this before we were born like we would all be much bigger larger smarter stronger more athletic specimens which which kind of bugs me you know and uh I'm not going to get to see I'm pretty big man I'm pretty big bro I know yeah but that's the thing you know it's like um you know like Messiah these guys are like on average like 6'3 6'4 on average right average American adult male is 5 foot eight you know it's is a shrimp compared to these guys you know well yeah and our I think the obesity rate in America is higher than anywhere else in the world if not top three it's it's pretty high I think they're I think last time I checked I think we were 19th for obesity but for obesity and over weight we're pretty high up there I think we're top top five top 10 um but there are some some places that have higher like straight up OBC rates like the Pacific Islands are pretty bad for that but I think as far as population is concerned we probably have more sorry is that because we ship them our food there it's not their native diets that they're eating there they're eating the processed foods in those islands I think exactly that yeah and uh and you know if you even even go into like rural India and Bangladesh and China and Africa I mean okay so so I was I was in Bangladesh doing humanitarian work right I was I was in a very very rural part of Southern Bangladesh the Bangladesh where these refugee camps are and so I was seeing how these people were living literally in the jungle right and this is in the jungle and yet there's still racks with like Ruffles potato chips and and like gummy bears and and like that you know like in the middle of the damn jungle they don't even have garbage waste disposal right so like all these plastic bags they can't even throw them away they just they they throw them on the street they someone will sweep them up and they'll like just burn these piles of plastic you know and it's just this black tar smoke coming off these plastic piles so like the the air pollution there is horrible because they burn so much plastic this in the middle of the Jungle and they still got access to fun-sized bags of Ruffles potato chips like why why they're so poor they they most people did not have shoes right and so you know and they they aren't able to afford that they're extremely poor extremely hungry and yet they're still able like buying Ruffles like it blew my mind but that was a thing they're very uh nutritionally deprived they're very short people in Bangladesh and um you know they just don't have a lot of access to to proper food on a good day and now you have this influx of processed garbage that is they they're spending what little money they have on that crap as opposed to real food and it's just and you know now these rates of diabet maybe you because they're half starved uh you know they don't have the obesity rate that Americans have or Western countries have because of the abundance of food but they have higher levels of diabetes and and metabolic diseases than than these other countries too even though they're they're skinny but they're still sick they're metabolically sick because of this this crap that we're feeding them they're getting cardiovascular disease that's their number one killer there yeah yeah sorry go if they're eating a lot of carbohydrate with fat so they're e a lot of rice with with fat um a lot of fried foods but definitely carbohydrate heavy there there is people in India though based off a class that were actually really poor that would eat meat because it was cheaper for them to have cows so I actually have a couple clients that I've worked with and I can actually qualify this he was telling me that his family was actually pretty poor so they it was cheaper for them to have beef than it was for them to eat the grains and eat the certain foods that people were eating and they actually ate beef in India yeah so there are people that do eat beef in India and it was it was a poor people that were eating it and they they stuck with beef given that you know the cow's holy there but he was actually telling me that his family was poor and they had to eat beef there wow that's interesting yeah that's s of most of them do get diabetes or cardiovascular disease most of his family has that that aren't eating the animal Foods yeah I I spoke with one Doctor Who's from India and you know talking about this is this is before I I came back to to carnivore but all the all the research on fructose was coming out on how toxic that was and how harmful it was and cause metabolic syndrome and diabetes and heart disease and things like that fatty liver and curosis basically all the things that that alcohol would do because fructose is broken down into the same byproducts that ethanol is that alcohol is so you get the same damage to your body from those breakdown products doesn't do all the same things before it breaks down but all the breakdown products are the same and so it can cause the same damage after that point and and he was saying he was just like you know it's really interesting because you know back home in India there's this this region you know I forget the name that he said it was you know you know over a decade ago um or was a decade ago and he said that you know in this region uh you know for three months out of the year the wild mangoes grow to in such abundance that just everyone there just like all they eat for three months is just mangoes just eat mangoes mangoes mangoes just all day every day for three months and they have the highest rates of of type two diabetes in India and so like the the government actually had to say had to limit and say hey you're not allowed to eat more than like you know a couple mangoes a day you have to eat other too and and that was just just from eating you know whole fruit but you know mangoes obviously is not like the natural mango that that we bred it from it's so sweet now has so much sugar in it and it's very addictive that's why like all I want to eat is mangoes I'm just going to eat mangos mangoes mangoes and yeah and so even then in the middle of the Jungle steamy mangoes they've got this massive massive obes or sorry diabetes rate and U which is pretty crazy to think about well it weakens your immune system because as your body's trying to clear that fructose it can't make vitamin D so the liver is bound up and in abundance we we weren't eating that amount of we didn't have juice first of all so we weren't juicing right and eating of fruits in one shot and you weren't able to eat more than a couple pieces most people can't eat more than a two pieces after a while you get kind of grossed out by it but with the with the sugar or with the juice it's mainlining it and the amount of fructose floods your liver and that's how there's those studies that are showing that you can actually get fatty liver from eating too much fructose people have this idea that it's all good sugar but little do they understand that it's it's not nothing good about having fatty liver especially from fruit juice and that can correlate with what you were saying in the 80s because that's when high fructose corn syrup became popular so we were eating that that was in all the juices all the prepackage foods and that's probably why these kids were getting higher rates of childhood diabetes absolutely yeah 90s yeah well absolutely because that you know that in 1977 when the USDA said that cholesterol was bad saturated fat is bad they all cause heart disease what does that mean that means you can't eat any meat you can't eat eggs you can't eat the things that we normally did and this was something that the sugar companies had been pushing since the 50s which was well you know cholesterol unsaturated fat could cause heart disease and if it does well then you want to replace that and what do you replace it with you know because that's our major calorie source is from fat well you can replace it with with clean pure sugar because it's just an empty calorie it's just it's just calories and and you need calories calories is a nutrient according to them and yes you do need calories but um you that that was the argument was that just oh just replace it with sugar Sugar's safe sugar is clean it's just it's just calories that's all it is it's just pure calories and and nothing else and so just replace this this potentially dangerous fat with sugar and so then when when the nail went in the coffin in 1977 uh with USDA fraudulently saying that the cholesterol caused heart disease they took fat out of everything and they just replaced it with sugar because wait you need the calories so they repl it with sugar and Grains and carbs and food pyramid came out so just a buttload of grains and um and yeah and so everything tasted like garbage because fat is flavor and uh my my girlfriend and I tried to make these like carnivore cookies with like carnivore um you know flour you just basically like boil down like a big roast and then like grind it up and things like that and make like a flour sort of substance out of out of meat and uh and so we were doing that and she wanted to make cookies and she was looking at this Carnival recipe for cookies and she was like telling me she like oh yeah this is the ingredients I was just like okay and how much butter does it say oh they don't use butter I'm like do not listen to that recipe like that is going to need butter and she's like well no it's just you know I'm going to follow the recipe like this is the recipe I'm like it's a bad recipe don't listen to the recipe like like cookies need butter like you have to do this it's is going to taste terrible it's just going to be like it just tastes like a brick and it's like well I'm just going to going to try it we got these these things were terrible they were just so bad even she was just like this is awful I just I wasted all this time she was so upset I'm was like butter like you need butter you know we weren't dousing this stuff with sugar right we weren't putting any sugar in it so like it needed butter and it did not have it so you know that was um that that's the idea you know fat is flavor and we took fat out of everything everything tasted like cardboard and so they just dumped in sugar and so the amount of sugar that we're eating like to your point the amount of high fructose corn syrup we started eating since the 70s increased by over 3.5 times and the amount of seed oils we're eating increased by over 3.5 times amount of red meat we were eating dropped by over a third right and the prevalence and incidence of heart disease and cardiovascular disease increased dramatically and is still increasing now people will try to hide the numbers is these are Lies by statistics right so lies damn lies and statistics those are three kinds of lies and so they'll say well actually you know deaths from from heart attacks and things like that from cardiovascular disease that's gone down you know since its peak in like the 60s that's not what we're talking about we're talking about the prevalence and rates of cardiovascular disease because we have a lot of interventions now and preventions that we can we can see we say oh when someone starts becoming symptomatic we do an angiogram we see there's a blockage we put a stent in we prevent heart attacks from happening and the first place and then we are able to you know reach in there suck out the clot when you do have a heart attack and put in stance and things like that we can revascularize parts of the brain we can do bypass surgery on the brain and and bypass a stroke if we can't get get the clot out or can't do anything like that we can actually like reattach vessels to re to re uh you know to restart the the the circulation in those areas so we can do amazing amazing things now but that doesn't mean that the problem is getting better because we're eating better this this is what the vegans would say oh actually we stopped stopped eating as much meat and saturated that actually things are getting better no it's that that the interventions that we have have gotten a lot better but the prevalence and incidence is going up and it's still going up I think believe between 2 2020 you know the the prevalence around the world has gone up I think by like 55% but the population of the world's only gone up by 45% so it's actually it's actually outgrowing the population right so it's not just we have more people now so we have more cardiovascular disease yes that's part of it but we have higher rates of cardiovas vascular disease you know in that population as well and so that's that's a problem and then we're we're not uh we're not addressing that uh properly I don't think I have a question so um I mean isn't sugar known to be inflammatory it inflames right it causes inflammation and weren't you telling me about inflammation leading to like you know certain dis imbalances in your body and whatnot inflammation is a precursor to all these diseases that we're seeing now like all the it's the precursor so inflammation is what occurs first before you go to that whole roulette so isn't inflammation the exact thing that we're trying to avoid yeah yeah and and a lot of people will say I mean I've heard a lot of doctors say that inflammation is the root of all diseases that you know like like like you were saying sort of you start this inappropriate inflammatory response your body's not responding appropriately to these things and that causes Downstream net effects that we then call certain you know non-communicable non-communicable uh chonic diseases which I don't think are diseases I think that they're you know a result of eating the wrong thing we're not eating what we're supposed to eat as a species and so we're getting problems and that we're getting a derangement of our normal biomechanics and we're calling that a disease but you know when you get exposed to lead poisoning right or you get lead poisoning from exposure to lead like the lead pipes in your house that causes specific end organ damage and disruption of your physiology so you'll see certain symptoms be like oh gosh I'm just not feeling well I'm having this problem I'm having that problem and I'm like well that's really weird you know and the doctor is trying to figure it out and taking tests oh gosh so we just don't know until someone says like oh actually this I've seen this pattern before Let's test this guy for lead poisoning and you test your lead and it's like through the roof like okay well that's what that is but before we knew about that you would just think well that's some sort of disease and like you know in ancient Rome when they had lead pipes and people were getting low grade lead poisoning they were you know they didn't know at first that lead would cause that problem and so they're like yeah just people are getting sick they don't know what's going on and it took a while for them to figure it out like you no we're being poison like there's something in these pipes you just can't use these pipes we're getting sick from these pipes and so they were able to to change to change those out but you know it you could look at that and say well this causes this specific disruption and we seeing metabolically like this is happening this is happening and so here's a drug that targets that and sort of interrupts that process and sort of slows down and mitigates that response so you can die slowly over 40 years taking their medication every day but if you recognize that this is being caused by exposure to lead you can just remove the lead problem goes away and that's that's what we haven't realized yet as a medical community or just as as you know civilization at large is that that's what we're doing now that that 85 to 90% of the things that we treat now as as a Mainstay of modern medicine are due to exposures and if you just remove those exposures and provide the adequate nutrition these problems go away and and we're seeing that clinically in practice and we're actually seeing that in in the clinical data in the peer review literature we're seeing that type two diabetes with autoimmune disorders as well and so you know that's you know where where always comes down to what I say is is I don't think that these diseases are diseases per se I think they're toxicities and malnutrition right so toxic buildup of a species inappropriate diet like lead but different you know but we're getting exposed to something that our bodies can't handle very well and we're and it's building up and just like you can deal with some lead you can deal with some of these things too but if you're getting exposed this day after day after day past the point that we can deal with this safely you're going to get a buildup with symptoms you're going to get a buildup with problems and people will say well it's not poison I had spinach the other day and I didn't die therefore it's not poisonous like well you had drinks last weekend too I guess alcohol is not poison either I guess cigarettes aren't poison either you know because you don't die right away but it builds up and it breaks you down over decades and you will die young and sick and you'll have you have you know Decades of ill of ill health that's a poison that's what poison is and so that's what I think these chronic diseases are and also not getting enough meat and food and and actual food for humans and fatty uh you know the the the fatty acids that we need the cholesterol that we need the fat soluble vitamins that we need and the meat that we need and in it's bioavailable form that works perfectly for us because we've been eating this for millions of years and that's what we are biologically adapted and designed to eat and I think that combination just removing those exposures and giving our bodies what we actually need that will get rid of well I mean will eradicate most of the chronic diseases we Face nowadays to that point um when you're talking about medicine and people you know having to maybe use medicine to keep them alive you know to like die slowly I was listening I was watching TV or listening to some you know music radio or something then a commercial came on and it it just it struck me it caught me you know I was just you know doing my thing watching a little bit of you know like white noise TV and the commercial is like oh is your kid complaining about heartburn or some stomach ache like they're selling Pepto bismo now to kids like as if like because you know like oh you know is your kid you know having you know issues or you know are you caught up in the moment and your kid's coming up with you know a sore stomach or heartburn you know and it's like why why should your kid be getting used to having heartburn yeah why you know why it's and so again is going back to that situation they're trying to put a little Band-Aid on a problem that could have been solved with proper diet in that exercise right and they're like no they don't want to solve the what they're eating they don't want to talk about what's being eaten or what's being fed to the child they just want to put the bandaid of here throw some Pepto bismo on it I've never even considered that for my kid I've never had my daughter my well my son's only he's about to make one year old but my daughter is six I've never had her once say anything about heartburn anything like that it's unheard of to me and now like it just when I heard that I was mindball I'm like dang what's the world coming to man like now kismo too like was things clear up I've had success reversing well not reversing but I have a type 1 diabetic he was born that way he's taking 75% less insulin on a carnivore diet he is not American so he has his family send it from France because it's really expensive here for insulin so he's taking 75% less insulin but when he starts dabbling with even just berries it changes and goes right back and we're talking about blueberries and raspberries right so it's not cane sugar but even messing around berries his requirements for insulin go up immediately it's very fascinating how it works for everybody across the board and if they have issues with the meat then we have to look deeper we have to look at the enzymes we have to look at the hydrochloric acid we have to see what's going on with what they did with their previous life to recreate this balance or hopes of H restoring homeostasis of some sort but we can't fault their previous life for what the carnivore diet is doing in the next couple of weeks because some people get die off um readjusting to Sugar Detox but when you could get past that and stabilize blood sugar it's it's a miracle it I've seen acne clear up on myself I've had alopecia when I was younger from stress gone muscular skeletal issues flexibility you get flexible on a carnivore diet you're not inflamed anymore I still stretch and roll but the requirements are less I'm not as tight I've correlated different organ issues with muscular skeletal issues the the somatic visceral loops and nerve inovations and you can have inflamed organs that are causing these distorted postural imbalances so when you address the diet the posture re reggulator are talking about like anterior pelvic tilt that's not caused by tide hip flexion that's caused by a distended belly because they're inflamed most of these postural imbalances that therapist like you stretch your soas and stretch that's useless because they're not addressing what's going on with their diet and their gut so I have my own case studies I I I take PR in these things because it's important to have Quantified and qualified assessments to prove what you're doing and I get these people on these diets I do some minimal stretching but these postural distortions are re realigning just from addressing the diet because they're not puffy anymore so as soon as that gut starts coming back in um and you remove the inflammatory foods their body just the the it coaches up that innate response and they they become more vital on all levels physically posturally all the bodily systems get better on the diet and and it's fascinating because therapists are treating muscles and muscles are at the bottom of that of the whole totem pole of of these bodily systems we know the limbic emotional system the hormonal visceral can easily override the muscular skeletal system but addressing the diet really does change these things it's it's it's magic I have not seen a diet work this well and I I've dabbled with diet for over 20 years 25 years I've done the vegetarian I've done the Paleo and carnivore is the epitome for me with success with athletic ability as well as reversing autoimmune disorders and getting rid of inflammation and leaning people out most people go to trainers because they want to lose body fat but I'm assessing them and I'm like okay we have other stuff that we need to address too but the diet just does it for them if they're consistent it comes right off it melts like ice cream it's very fascinating and they feel better they look better it builds confidence um just the only thing that makes it difficult is the the anel keys information that came out in the 70s and people's lack of catching up with the times because these things have been debunked and as you mentioned with Harvard Harvard pushing for sugar right they paid off scientists to to blame uh fat for what sugar was doing but what's frightening is that in the what 20s late 20s early 30s we had the warberg hypothesis right and so he proved that these cancer cells were living off of sugar that fermentation from the from the insulin so You' inject people with insulin and see the cancer cells go to this so he knew that cancer lived off of sugar or that Sugar thrives off of eating or cancer thrives off of eating sugar in the 30s already and then we fast forward 40 years later and they're telling everybody to eat sugar so it's very frightening and scary to think that we already had that information decades before proving that Sugar feeds cancer and then 40 years later we're telling everybody prestigious schools are telling people to eat tons of sugar because it suppresses their appetite it gives children energy I've seen all the propaganda we can easily Google 1970s sugar propaganda and it's very fascinating it's humorous when you look at it now but it's frightening because of the damage that it it did and it's still doing because people still follow the anel key ideology and the the the stuff that he taught during that time and things changed from the 70s from the canola oil to the high fructose corn syrup to the low fat and our physiques changed too if you look at pictures and we see them floating around online pictures of people on the beach from 30s to 40s 50s you see this magical boom in the towards the late 70s 80s 90s and now it's just mostly obese people on the beach because the reflection of of our lifestyle which the diet is a huge part of it Yeah well yeah oh sorry go into that point like uh my grandfather um I mean you know well respected in in the martial arts and and Jiu-Jitsu community and like I said uh you know founding father of of Brazilian jiujitsu and Gracie Jiu-Jitsu but he was his older brother Carlos spent most of his last years just studying diet and pH and alkaline and acidity and granted you know like I said we do appreciate app some fruits and stuff in the Gracie diet you know they'll eat some fruits but everything in balance and there is a certain process you don't just eat whatever at any time there's a certain processing that they'll go through in terms of how they consume it when they consume it and one thing that when we're talking about here is that kind of sticks out is my grandma say every bad thing for you comes in through the mouth every everything that's like that can hurt you will come in that you have to consume it right so that's I think one of the things that's kind of raised to us and told to us as kids when we're growing up is we value so much what we eat that we learn how to cook we learn how to kind of you know make try to make the healthiest decisions we can and that's why we I feel like I even value diet nowadays is because I would have this influence coming into me from my father my grandfather and my grandfather didn't drink he didn't smoke he would even hold a glass of wine at my my my parents wedding or a glass of champagne because he didn't want to give that image and so he was very much um always conscious about what he consumed what he would actually let go into his mouth he would stay away from anything process anything that would last on your shelf more than a few days he probably would not consume and granted it's not 100% carnivore but it's that kind of again what are we telling our next Generation right are we just saying go out and buy whatever you want and just you know eat quick eat fast buy this byy that or are we actually saying think about sit back and think about literally experiment literally with what makes you feel better what makes you perform better and like you know a lot of people today is um I feel like caught up in the tech boom and then the kind of you know they want to spend more time doing other things and they don't want to spend time cooking so then they're get eating fast food food and then they're concerned about money so then they're trying to save money on the food and if you look at it all the foods that are good for you are more expensive for the most part but rightfully so right and there's a more nutritional value um and you feel better and you perform better and you think clearer so that cheap meal you know what were we talking about leaky gut right and then how some of these Foods you know obviously tarnish your gut line and like you know I guess little microorganisms in your gut that are supposed to be alive and healthy that are supposed to intake all the good nutrients and all these kind of bad foods like these poisonous foods that you're just eating every single day is killing that gut lining therefore now you're dealing with leaky gut and you know these toxins and bacterias are seeping through your gut line into your blood system and you know now you're having heartburn left and right that's just the first thing heartburn is just the first thing but that's obvious viously letting you know that hey man if you don't switch it up something around the corner is coming in it's it's only going to get worse from here Pepto bismo ain't gonna a gonna you know what I'm saying it's only GNA get worse now you need pepto bismo and something else and now I can't even remember last time I took a medicine I can't even I can't even remember T anything Tylenol nightquil petto I can't remember I'll rather literally if I get like a little germ or something just wait it out for a couple of days before you know it my body's kicks his butt The Germ is gone I'm back healthier than ever I want the I went to the doctor for to get surgery because I blew out a ligament and then I had I can't do the surgery myself so you get the surgery but other than that bro I cannot remember the last time I went to see a doctor for any kind of medicine or anything my doctor's right here this guy's my dogor I'm a student same thing with with our doctors right we go to the doctor we're healthier than them um yeah our test my testosterone ask if I'm on steroids I've never taken any performance enhancement drugs I'm almost 43 and I'm above this guy does like 50 pull-ups bro he does like I'm like watch I'm like holy I'm like trying to get I think it's important to walk the walk too right if we're going to discuss diets if we're going to talk about exercise we have to walk the walk too humbly and as a student because that's the beauty of science it could be disproven and we have to go with that and be open to learn so I also believe that you have to walk the walk and you do a great job of that and we're trying to do that too to to live as an example and show that this can be done in a healthy Manner and you know it's one thing if someone's telling you to do something a certain diet but if they don't look the part it it's it's it's tough and looking the part is not enough either right you also have to have a little bit of smarts with it and be able to to share that information with with the people you're teaching it to as well being a health practitioner yeah one video that he had shown me I think that I had messaged you and told you about but the plants are trying to kill you that that YouTube video was awesome by the way super cool I watch it I share it with everybody I'm like yo you got to watch this bro come over you got to watch and uh and it's super interesting right because um it just you know you talk about how everything living has a survival mechanism right everything you know lines have teeth and Claws and then but plants they can't run they can't hide they can't so they have toxins and they have you know certain cancer causing carcinogens and they have these leptins I mean I hope that's the right word yeah and so it was it was interesting it was I never thought of it that way you know but then you started you know talking more and so I you know I was I was like it it does make sense everything nothing alive does want to want to die everything alive wants to stay alive and you then started talking about how no animal eats every single plant right certain animals eat specific plants if it eats the wrong plant it's not going to feel good or it could die and you gave the example about pandas and koalas and then you gave the example of that bird I think in Australia who only that single bird can eat the seed because the seed can only germinate once it goes through the bur's digestive tract and so I mean that was that for me that that that definitely made a lot of sense and seemed very real and then you you talked about one thing here um about like potato skins right how like you know or potatoes and like sometimes and that might have been on a different you know segment of yours but you were talking something about and how people had talked about uh you know potato skins having a lot of the nutrients right and that's where all the nutrients are at but then you also said yeah but that's also where all the kind of harmful uh antinutrients antinutrients are at in the same time so with the good nutrients you're also taking a lot of anti and so that when I heard that my dad right my dad cuz like my dad boils the crap out of everything he eats right mentioned if you were gonna eat this okay but boil it boil it you know burn off a lot as much as you can if you are going to eat it I think you said something along get rid of some of the oxalates but it doesn't get rid of all of them though yeah so and lectin especially like it can a lot of lectin are heat sensitive but yeah it doesn't necessarily get rid of all of them and um and yeah some some or or just treating them in general we have a lot of traditional treatments for different plants to sort of detoxify them a bit and then to bring out some more of their nutrients and sometimes that's boiling and sometimes that's just getting rid of the skin getting rid of the seeds like you do in in tomatoes and but yeah there's there's but yeah but treating themad been telling my dad's been sorry I didn't mean interrup my dad's been telling me about tomato seeds since I was like a little kid like son don't need tomato seeds yeah and every time you eat the tomato I see him in the sink and he's getting the seeds out of the little tomato and I would tell people this like bro you're freaking crazy right and then I watched that video about you I'm like bro my dad knew it the whole time knew it right and when it came to the potato skins is like so people would come over but how's it like that's where all the nutrients like he's like oh yeah okay let's do this I'll make a dish of just potato skins for you and I'll eat the potato yeah yeah you all the nutrients and it kind of goes back to like I guess you know if you are going to consume certain things the process about how to go about it to the best of its ability right and again like you said that but I heard that very similar information from my grandfather and from my father and so these are like ancestral right it's coming and they are learning it from somewhere and they're doing researches and stuff like that and so it's it like that was a moment for me where I was like yeah it my mind went crazy I was like so excited to hear that so oh good well it's cool too that you you have that background you know with your family and um you know having that sort of deeper understanding of of nutrition and just being very conscious of it you know that it is very important what you put in your mouth you can't just eat crap and expect you know the best results you know it really know everything boils down to what fueling your body with because your body is just not going to work as well and there you know I mean look I think I think a lot of people have done it I've I've eaten less well in certain points of my life and still competed at a high level but I can tell you for a cold Frozen fact it was nothing close to how well my body can perform and how well I can perform both mentally and physically when eating a proper diet makes a massive massive difference and yes you can compete at a high level with a whole bunch of other people that were eating a bunch of crap as well you know and you're on a Level Playing Field but this is something that that I think more athletes really need to get on top of because this gives this unlevel the playing field you know this is something that can make give you an extreme Advantage athletically and physically uh legally you know you don't need performance-enhancing drugs you know I have patients in their 60s and 70s that are increasing their testosterone levels by 340% in three months you know and one guy I had one guy he was he was like 72 and went on a carnivore diet he doubled his testosterone levels got into the into the the range that you would normally see in someone in like 20s and 30s and he was just saying he like I just feel like a teenager again I just feel amazing like all I want to do is like lift weights and F my wife like this is amazing I was like this hilarious just dying and uh but it was it was such a great result because this guy this guy's just vitality you know had had just had really uh you know been been you know re uh you know reignited and it was just great to see and you know I see this in in you know younger athletes that are still like in their Prime still competing and and same thing you know their their testosterone level like double there's uh you know there's some rugby players that play in the US national team that were talking to me about about their experience with it and not even going full Carnival just mostly Me Maybe have like a bit of fruit things like that like you're talking about um here and there you know but but still increase the amount of meat they're eating increase the amount of fat they're eating and testosterone levels doubled and so you know I mean that's just I mean that's just huge right I mean you can you can stick a needle in your ass and and and maybe double your testosterone levels right or you just eat meat and you and you'll get the same result and it's totally legal it's physiological it's good for it and it works in the whole system the whole system is changing it's not just the test testosterone is changing it's everything in proportion with the testosterone is changing and developing as well and so this is this is a a healthy massive advantage and so for for athletes especially I'm just trying to like just really pump this horn because it's like guys you're you are missing out on a huge Advantage uh in your sport and it's sustainable right you look at the history of these people that are doing performance enhancers I mean there comes a day where you know Judgment Day right where it's like all right man and a lot of them you know a couple of them come to mind I'm not gonna say no names but you know dealing with all these kind of bacterial infections they're having you know stomach and gut problems you're seeing H pyi you're seeing young infections in These Guys these guys look like specimens yeah they look the part but they're literally rotting from the inside out with with these common bacterias and parasites that we see in people but in abundance because they have a disbiosis they're not eating properly they're doing steroids pedal to the metal it's it's yeah it's a short live Victory right yeah they're going to maybe get the gold medal today you know yeah maybe they're going to get a nice little paycheck today but then a lot of them die off at 40 years old heart attack boom you know I mean so the use of peeds and and and a lot of these you know steroids and I mean there is there is a price to pay and I mean some people are are open to that and are willing to kind of make that deal right with the devil kind of yeah you know whatever forget if I die at 40 years old and then or if you know that's a possibility but I want I want the glory now but I mean then you got to kind of put put it on the line but you know I always see a long life for myself you know so I want of course enjoy many gold medals I want nice victories I want the accolades I definitely want a lot of you know those things those things are they make you feel good one of the best feelings in the world is to overcome any adversity on tournament day or fight day these are the some of the best feelings that a person can feel right winning the championship or winning but at the same time it's like you know knowing and and this is something that we talk about because I I don't want to use performance enhancing drugs and I don't plan on using Peds I haven't yet and I I don't plan on doing it and you know maybe have I lost a couple you know couple tournaments because that or you know a couple fight maybe you know but there is going to be a day where I am going to come back back and I'm going to write all these things wrongs you know in terms of you know set you know set set the bar to where like hey it's going to prove the point where you can be very happy you can be very successful and I even think for people that use Peds at some core somewhere in the core there is a weakness in their mentality to even that to where they even have to use the PED something in them is saying that you're not enough you're never going to be enough and you're going to have to you know and that's where I'm going to look to beat these guys is when you go eye to eye and you really know that you're the truth I think there comes a moment in time where it doesn't matter what you have in your system bro we're going to smash you we're gonna smash you you know that kind of thing and uh you might you might you know win one you might win two but we're going to be the last ones laughing here I I swear to God that's why I'm going the extra level to you know find ways to get the optimal because you know you know you have to make some changes and adjustments when things aren't really going exactly how you envision it so you go back to the drawing board Alo is one of these with a carnivore diet and then you know educating me a little bit more about how meat fats are good for you and you know how like he was saying not just bloating up because yeah I could eat a pasta and be 205 right now but that's that's not real that's balloon weight that's that's you know and at the same time I don't want I got two kids I'm not trying to get no bacteria infections I'm not trying to die at 40 years old you know I want man I want I want to live I want to see my kids have kids but at the same time be a World Champ Be A Champion live as a champion all the way through not just as a 25 year old or but as a 40y old as a 50y old 60y old be like your friend over there 72 just want to fight eat baby let's go you know what I'm saying yeah so yeah well there's a there's a a guy I was talking to Dr sha omaro was great guy and um I I'll be releasing that episode um in the next couple weeks and I don't know when this is coming out but we'll see how how the timing comes out it might be out by the time this comes out but he um uh he's a great guy he's you know he's you know big fan of the carnivore diet and and specifically getting rid of visceral fat and he's saying that that that's a major driver for disease and cancer and all these other sorts of things just having more visceral fat and that carniv is like the best dietary measure really the best thing to get rid of that and then on top of that you want to do like high intensity exercises like sprinting like you know like you know like rolling fighting and and lifting like just these big high-intensity workouts that that just like strips that that out of there and is really good uh for removing disease and he was saying we were talking about longevity and the fact that the human body is designed to live 120 years on average you know should just get there anyway based on the length of our te mirrors and if you're working out and you're pushing yourself you're doing these sorts of things that'll actually help your teir and they'll actually lengthen those out and you actually probably go longer than that and he was saying that he predicts like in the future that the top professional athletes will probably be in like their 50s and 60s right because if you're eating a cornivore diet if you're eating what you're supposed to eat and your body's not breaking down and you're still maintaining that that physical stature and that and that athletic performance you can put out and you've got 45 years of experience in that sport like no one's messing with you no one you know and um you know I sort of thought it was was kind of funny thinking of like you know 60-year-old like running back you know just getting just laced by like linebackers and things but at the same time if your body if you're if you're not you know aging Prem like you know the only reason I'm not playing rugby right now is is because like my have arthritis on my kneecap and it just flakes off cartilage and my knee blows up every time I Sprint so I'm trying to rehab that but like the day that I can Sprint without my knee blowing up like I will be on that field and um you know even with my schedule like my schedule's ridiculous I I will make time for this you know because that's just that's just you know in my heart I just want to just go out and just smash people like it's still there and like like you know so you know and like physically I feel amazing like I can go hours in the gym no problem like I can sprint stairs all day I can just keep and that for some reason doesn't blow up my knee but I just as soon as I'm running on the flat stupid thing blows up and so that that's the only limitation um but you know I'm 43 I feel better than I have when I was in my late 20s playing at a high level you know and my body works and so it makes sense you know so me having you know 25 years of rugby experience that's going to that's going to mean something on the field especially if my body works the way it could and you know I think back to uh Alexander the Great you know he had he inherited his army from his his father he was like Phillip King Phillip and um and so this was already a very tried true and tested Army and he said a lot a lot of these guys uh that were in his army so he was like 22 when he's like taking over whole known world but his troops were anywhere from 20 to 60 right so you got 60-year-old dudes with 13 foot steel Spears just out on front lines just lacing people and these guys had a 50 to1 kill ratio right and so I mean it was just it was just crazy I mean they were just destroying these these armies and and one of his generals I believe the guy was uh 78 and he was head of one of his his wings of Cavalry and he was so this is this is not like they're sitting in a tent drawing up plans going yeah go do it back then the generals were at the head of the line and so this guy was in charge of the Cavalry leading the charge at 78 swinging a sword wearing full armor just just axing people right and you know you think about this this guy's got 65 years of killing experience you know he was probably just you know death on Wheels out there and uh you know maybe at 78 he's slowing down a bit you you would expect but he's still out there doing it and he's doing it well enough that he's not dying you know like because they were going battle after battle after battle and this guy was was still in it till the end I think he I think he probably survived Alexander the Great um but that was it I mean that's that's a testament to what the human body is capable of and you know doing extreme you know Sports and Physical Endeavors into into what we consider late age but really isn't it's actually middle age and when you're in your middle age you should be at the peak and height of your production and performance because you have the Decades of experience and your body still works and so you know you get the nutrition right you get the lifestyle right you get that part right you could easily be doing this and competing at an extremely high level into your 50s and 60s and you know barring any sort of you know like you know my injuries that just were just holding me back you know your body's going to keep working and then you having just those Decades of experience you know no one's going to touch you yeah I believe it man I'm a firm believer in that and thank you for sharing that story dude that's that's motivation right here let's go baby but yeah I really believe it's you know mind the mind you know having the mentality and it all starts in the mind you know to make the right decisions to eat the good foods to carry yourself a certain way to prepare yourself a certain way that's all going to be decided up in here you know what you eat de decided up in here you know uh what how you train it all starts well who do I listen to where do I go how do I train that that all starts in here man and uh yeah dude so it's like I believe man I believe 100% yeah we're teaching it to a lot of the younger athletes so I've been working with some of his students and teaching them more of the movement and performance part of things and they have a lot of life left so they're very malleable and and these guys are just going to be incredible because they're at a lower level young age they're already very successful we put them on these diets at that age and they're going to flourish and so we have the case studies now so I'm working with Howen and and some of the athletes he's been training and we're also working towards I'm working towards going to the Olympics next year 2024 break dancing is going there so this is a new Spore breaking is going to be in the Olympics and so we're working with Olympians now that are on Team USA as well as with other athletes and I'm personally bringing the carnivore diet to that to that Medium they're pushing for vegetarian diets taking folet pills it's very comical to see what what they're what they're teaching these people it's it's scary and sad to think that the Olympic level athletes are fed this plant-based diet or they're promoted this plant-based diet and so we're doing the complete opposite I'm putting these guys on on Carnivore diets and we're going to see how they're able to perform and it's it's a big sport now it's it's Global it's it's in places like Venezuela all the way to Tanzania and Kenya so it's very fascinating how it blew up in the last 20 years and now that it's going to be in the Olympics these are the diets that we're bringing there and so we will have case studies to present and show the effectiveness of how because most of these kids these younger kids when I say kids 20-y olds they're on plant-based diets right now and we know that they can gamble for a while but eventually the body starts pulling nutrients from different parts and they go into this metabolic chaos as they age right you might be um able to compensate when you're 19 and 20 but come 25 30 it it starts catching up and so they're doing these diets now these plant-based diets but some of them are not healing properly they're they're they're having injuries they're not healing they're realizing that these plant-based diets aren't working so people are finding the carnivore diet we're pushing for it for highle athletes but people are finding it because they've hit a dead end and that's that's where a lot of people I almost say they have no choice other than to try this and so when they hit that dead end they're they're more open to trying things when they have exacerbated their options yeah now with that being said oh I'm sorry um I was going to ask like um when you there is a difference of quality of meat right is like there could be like a soy fed you know fully grained soy fed cow locked up in a little pin with like 30 other cows or there could be a pasture raised right and does this I mean you got might know better than me but does that make a difference in the quality of meat and the results that we're going to get from a carnivore diet well um so yeah well certainly certainly the nutritional component is different 100% you know and we can see this you know you see like regeneratively raised uh you know meat and eggs and and things like that um you know they they just have a higher nutrient component I mean sometimes like triple quadruple more there was a there was one guy I saw he was giving a talk at um uh at a university I can't remember which one but he was he was talking about you he had a regenerative farm and he said like a normal egg in America like the average you that would be you know um reported uh in the government statistic ICS was like for folate it had like 41 milligrams of folate and his had over a thousand right so there was a big big big increase in the amount of nutrients available and uh and you you do see this so that's certain we do know that we have we have objective measures we can say this this has more nutrients there more nutrient dense um we don't really have any studies that show different Health outcomes though so if if someone's eating like store-bought meat like grain fed and finish or grain finished beef you know because 80% of beef is going to be on grass anyway and then just last couple months it'll be on grain we do know that that makes a difference in the nutritional components but this the The Limited studies that we have at the moment don't show any difference in outcomes now the problem is is that you're looking for specific end points so what's what's the end point that we're looking at we're looking at disease we're looking at average health and all these sorts of things so is that is that going to be different for like a highlevel athlete you know probably you know we did we don't have those studies though so if you had a study looking at someone was just eating grass-fed grass finished you know regeneratively raised uh beef and someone else is just eating whatever meat I I would expect there to be a difference in in the high in in the high performance athlete we don't we don't have any definitive proof of that for outcomes but we definitely know that the nutritional components uh are different and I think that you know especially when you go to like the monogastrics like like uh you know pork and chicken that them being fed soy and corn pellets and crap like that that that I think causes more of an issue and you have like a much higher levels of linola acid for example in in Grain and soy fed pork and so and that's quite harmful that's a that's a very harmful substance that you don't want much in your body and so that's also why I think that people naturally gravitate to more red meat because the the you know cows and and sheep and things like that go the ruminant animals are able to to break down those different toxins a little better even if they're not used to eating those those things they just have a bit bit better capacity for breaking that crap down and so it doesn't necessarily go into translate into the meat as much as like in pork or chicken or like Farm race fish that stuff just no one should be touching that stuff and so um you know that and that's also why I see like people get a bit more sensitive to that as well especially people with autoimmune issues they just they they can't really do you know uh you know Farm like uh you know feed lot pig or chicken or things like that they they will get an autoimmune response and so they really have to stick more to the red meats some people well a lot of a lot of people on a with autoimmune issues even will actually put things into like remission just on red meat even just you know grain finish red meat but some people are a bit more sensitive they really do have to stick to like the grass-fed grass finish stuff and um you know you just see but you know you'll eat less I think you know when I was when I had a regeneratively raised 10-year-old cow tasted way better by the way just had much more beefy flavor just all those nutrients I could just taste that I was like this is the only thing I want to eat and I felt supercharged like seriously like just teeming with life and energy when I ate this stuff and I ate far less and I didn't need to eat as much fat it was very it was very lean there was fat on the outside but there wasn't any you know marbling and I just felt amazing and so I found that I just wasn't as hungry because your you know your body goes after nutrients more than it does calories it want so when my body was satisfied with the nutrients it was getting it was like yeah we don't need to eat anymore so I was eating actually much less and I think that was a direct result of the how much nut know the nutrient density that was in this food and so that may be a bit why we don't see too many differences in uh you know outcome is because well maybe you just naturally will just eat more of the less nutritious meat and so you'll you'll even that out you'll end up getting the same nutrients whereas like well maybe I don't need to eat as much maybe if you did a study saying you're eating the exact same amount of one or the other maybe that would have different outcomes but there there is certainly a different in difference in nutritional composition and so I think that if if someone is is trying to compete at a high level or just trying to optimize their health that might and they can afford it because not everyone can then that's maybe something that they should think about but for most people it it seems to be just fine like you'll you'll still achieve extremely good health if not Optimal Health and on on just store-bought meat and um and it's certainly going to be better than anything else you're going to eat so it's already e either way if that's the only thing you can get I mean that's mostly what I eat is just Costco beef and you know when I get grass-fed stuff I mean I I certainly enjoy that but um it's not as not as uh available here where I'm at and so you where are you are you in Australia yeah in Perth so over on the west coast and so you know you really have to you can buy direct sort of from these regenerative Farms but a lot of them are on on the East Coast at least the ones I'm aware of and so I'm trying to sort of figure out a way to like just ship a pallet of of stuff over here but it's you know it's a bit of a going across the whole continent they have Costco over there so I I um I almost didn't move here because they didn't have a Costco I was just like I'm not doing that you know like I was like I grew up in I grew up you know Southern California but then we moved up to Kirkland Washington when I was uh 10 which is where the first Costco is right so Kirkland Signature like that's so it was like two miles from my house was the first Costco and um and so I've been going there forever and like I just I just rely on this and I like lived in Europe for a while and they didn't have a Costco they didn't have Amazon I'm like I'm not I'm not living like a like a peasant anymore you know I'm just not dealing with that and so when I got back and I was looking I was like you know I got a I got you know a job over here in Perth and I was like oh okay so it's set to move it was like it was like a month before I was going to move down here and all of a sudden I thought it was just like was like okay so how am I going to do this well you know I'll just go down and you know I'll find a place to you know stay in Airbnb for a couple weeks I'll find a place to you know to live and uh you know rent a place and then um what do I need I'll just outfit it I'll just go to C get furniture get a bed get my meat there and everything should be fine then I was thought like wait a minute do they even have a Costco like surely you know this is a first world country you know it's a major city like they must have a Costco so I looked it up and and there were Costco in other parts and other major cities in Australia but there wasn't one in Perth I'm like I don't think I can do this I don't think I can do this like I was like trying to think of options like can I switch jobs can I get a different contract in a different part of Australia or do I just not go down there because I was this close to just being like abs not doing that again and um and uh I did end up coming down because I saw that they were in in the process of building a Costco so I was like okay all right it it's already started ground has broken so ostensibly within a year this should this should happen but I can tell you it was not a happy year for me it was really annoying like not having that and you get us to Costco man it's hard it's hard not to have Costco around on you're used to definitely first world problems you know what I mean but like you know I can like you know this is like directly coming out for Bangladesh and I'm I'm complaining about not having a Costco after like living in a refugee camp and things like that people don't have shoes and I'm just like I don't have a I don't have my mega Superstore that's that's utterly convenient for me but you know it does make a big difference and then you know one year later it opened up and so things have been okay since then what are your thoughts on uh on those those cows being exposed to glyphosate I'm getting mixed things on that can that really affect us if we're eating cows that are eating ex things that they possibly expose to glyphosate or sprayed in the area or what's the carryover to that can we get harmed from eating cows that were exposed to glyphosate or the grass that was sprayed with it yeah it's a good question um you know it's it's better than eating the thing that was fed to the cow that had Cate on it right because the cow's going to be able to detoxify that and get some of that out I don't know the the turnaround on that though I don't know how much actually gets in and stays in the meat I'm not I'm not too sure about that but that's an important question ask and and that's that's probably a good um good reason to try to avoid those sorts of those sorts of things because yes you know that's unfortunately becoming much more pervasive um of a of a chemical that's in our that's in our food supply that wasn't that really wasn't there before the 990s I don't think and so it's um it's rain water now they're detecting it in our rainwater spes in our rain water it's it's it's very bad for the soil because it also uh pulls copper out of the soil and most of our Foods don't have copper anymore copper is really hard to get even the livers are having less amount of copper because of the the whole cycles of the grass and and the glyphosate accumulates copper out of the soil wow that's one of the negative things it does and being being in the rainwater that's that's kind of terrifying because that that's that's like an herbicide I mean that that kills plants that's whole idea yeah glyos in the rain it's disheartening to hear that yeah the corn and soy fit animals like I go to Whole Foods for example and I'm like researching looking up the farms and the majority of that stuff of the chicken they do sell there's like 90% fed corn and soy um some of the duck is fed gluten so they do feed wheat some of the animals and like you were mentioning people with autoimmune disorders will have complete metabolic chaos eating that stuff and that's the majority of meat that most people eat is chicken because they believe that white meat is healthier than than beef and most of that expensive Whole Foods Chicken is all fed actually all of it is fed corn and soy which is extremely problematic and that's the that's what's available to most people most people are eating those animals on a daily basis and they're really avoiding red meat because of the misconceptions behind it yeah definitely um are those pasture chickens some of them are but they're still fed 90% corn and soy so it's kind of like a mind when you're seeing the labeling because you're pasture but they eat it's all corn and soy like 90% And then like some kind of vitamin supplement that they'll give them for the last 10% so they're not even getting bugs worms and then you have vegetarian fed animals which or Birds which is gnarly because the birds aren't aren't aren't vegetarian so they get these different issues and they found that there's a study I forgot gentlemen who did it but they were actually feeding the birds liver and it was bringing them back to life after eating the the corn and the soy and the vegetarian diets cu the birds were getting messed up from not eating omnivore diet or their omnivore diet and they would reintroduce liver back into it and that's where this guy coined the term vitamin K for the what they were giving the the birds which is very fascinating it's like the people trying to make the vegan cats man see the hashtags for vegan cats that's insane man like you just want your cat to die I guess you know and I mean you we we we've known that I mean we we've known that for literally hundred years there was a study um uh called pottinger cats and people look that up on on YouTube they just fed them one group uh raw meat and one group cooked meat a still meat it's the same meat just one's cooked one's not cooked the cooked ones were getting more sick they weren't surviving like surgery because they were they were trying to uh do some adrenal surgery that's and that's how they found that all the cats were dying and then they found the one that they didn't they didn't feed them cooked meat and they weren't dying none of those died they're like okay is there a difference here in the in the nutritional value of cooked and uncooked meat so they did an experiment and they did this with hundreds of cats for generations and they found that the cook the uncooked meat super healthy generation after generation after generation and that the cooked meat got worse and worse and worse after each generation they were less uh healthy they were getting sick um the Next Generation the second generation they found that they were actually smaller in stature they were like you know like 20 30% smaller and they had smaller brains they have less developed cheekbones and um and they weren't as healthy their bone mineralization dropped from like 14% down to 7% and then the third generation got even worse they were getting even more sick their bone Min mineralization was down to 3% and so they were getting like dozens of fractures like each cat had dozens of fractures because they said the bone was like foam rubber it was just like it was just so soft it so sad I think about these little cats with just 40 fractures throughout their body that's just horrible to think about um they and they were even smaller and they had smaller brains even less developed uh cheekbones and and they found that now they weren't interested in in mating they weren't interested in in uh compulation and the ones that did either couldn't get pregnant or had still births and so they couldn't make it past three generations just on cooked meat right and then they started feeding them raw meat again and they got healthier and they were able to reproduce but the Next Generation didn't go back to normal it took four generations of feeding them raw meat to until they bred back to where the the raw meat cats had been in the first place so there there's epigenetic effects of eating stupid that lasts Generations right and so that's that's the thing so so we know that about cooked meat and now they're giving them a vegetarian diet these things are obligate carnivores meaning that they they there's are almost no plants that aren't deadly poisonous to them that aren't that will not just kill them and and they have to get these nutrients from raw meat and so the idea that you can have a vegetarian cat is just ludicrous you know first of all you're just going to have to supplement all the different nutrients you know where those things coming from probably coming from meat first of all so it's really not going to be like a vegan sort of cat and and you're putting in a bunch of you know rice and soy and crap like that C they will have things that are toxic to that cat and you know so if people actually gave a a about their cats they would not do that to them they would they would feed them what they're supposed to do this is what I ask people to say well it's just not it's not nice to to kill animals I agree it's not there's no nice way of killing anything but you know saying so we shouldn't do that it's like okay so what do we do do we kill all the all the Predators and all the carnivores out there we kill all the dolphins all the whales all the Wolves all the lions all the birds of prey you know all these different sorts of things and all the snakes they say well no no no no of course not I mean that's that's just nature you know it's just like you know that that's just you know part of nature it's like right we're part of nature too you know we're we're not just some alien species that just came here and uh and are just completely separate from uh the the biological laws of nature like we are animals and we need to to eat to our biologically appropriate diet and and that is our nature our nature is one of carnivory we don't really get proper nutrition from eating plants we can't get even basic nutrition we can't get a full complement of nutrients from eating plants you cannot and so you know how can that be our evolved diet if we can't even get basic nutrition and even some of the vegans will will say oh yeah well yeah people were eating meat for millions of years but you know just because we were eating it for millions of years and that's our biologically adapted diet that doesn't mean that that's optimal it's like I'm sorry but you need to listen to the words that just came out of your mouth a little harder because you just said this is something that's are you know that we've been B exposed to for millions of years and have had you know through selection pressures you know would not have been possible to do that if if this wasn't optimal and we would have optimized to it like that's how that works if you're eating just meat forever you're and this is this like 100% bioavailable to us we don't have things that are toxic to us so you know this is our biologically appropriate diet how can eating something that we're biologically designed to eat not be optimal I mean this is just a definition of terms here whatever you're biologically designed to eat is what's optimal for you to eat end of story now I got a question in terms of vegans do they take supplementation oh yeah to have to the vegan diet or can they be a vegan without supplementation oh you can if you want to die yeah but it's um you know they get very sick you know and a lot of people like you know some like 83% or 84% of vegans vegetarians start eating meat within the first year because of health issues and so you have to take copious amounts of supplements um and I think some of was like it's like 75% of like vegans vegetarians eat meat when they're drunk you know it's just like they're that's like that's probably the only thing keeping them alive you know it's just like every now and then they actually get some nutrition and so yeah you know the longterm vegans vegetarians absolutely have to take tons and tons and tons of supplements I me again you cannot get basic nutrition from that you know you can argue up and down sideways all well you can get n you really can't um B12 you just does not exist in plants or fungus you know I mean maybe there's some uh you know algae and things like that that you know you can get like derive some from but it's like it's not all that much and um and it's not necessarily bioavailable either and uh and who has access to this sort of I mean this is this is we're talking about what we're we're evolved to eat I mean like just all Humanity all throughout the world in all you know the different continents and and landscapes been on they all had access to this algae probably not you know and then people say well there's this you know the bacteria in your in your gut can sort of produce some B12 it's like yeah that's in your colon we absorb B12 in our small intestine and so did the Gorilla by the way and that's why the gorillas eat their feces so they can get the B12 right that's that's how they get B12 they literally eat their and so like if you want to do that I guess you could but you're you're ay you have to do that and B you you have to presuppose that you have the right bacteria that's even going to produce the B12 in the first place I'm not going to run that experiment on myself and uh frankly that that was debate that we're having in the game changers when those people were eating their unwashed vegetables and they were putting their own feces on there and they're like we have adequate B12 but they didn't explain that until later that they were actually not washing their plants vegetarians have 12 but they EA the feces along with that yeah well and the thing is is that do do they have adequate B12 a are they are they supplementing or they are they not supplementing at all I don't know if that's that's the case you know people can just say what they want to say but oh they made Thea you're right they made the claim that that they had that but they washing their vegetables well and but the thing is though is that is that everyone in society now is so deplete in B12 because 70% of what Americans eat is plant-based most of that stuff is processed garbage right but it's still mostly plant-based we're mostly eating all that processed crap all comes from Plants as you said earlier you know and so we're actually eating a very small amount of meat we're eating sort of less and less certainly less red meat we sort of replace some of the red meat with with chicken and so the amount of total meat that we eat is is roughly the same since the 1970s but it's lower Quality Meat it's not getting the fat and things like that so and and we seriously reduced um our saturated fat incre intake and our red meat intake significantly reduce that by over a third since the the 1970s and so the majority of what we're eating is is is still plant-based and is not getting a lot of B12 B12 mostly in red meat as well zeld Meats as well but a lot of it's in red meat and so most people are B12 deficient and the problem with that is that now because so many people are B12 deficient they don't realize they're B12 deficient because their lab tests say that they're not B12 deficient because lab tests test the first 2,000 people that come into any given lab right that's your reference range right and that's why two different labs in the same town can have two different sets of reference ranges they're always slightly different so that's just the average for the people that came into that lab who gets blood test are these all well baby checks you know I feel great let's prove it you know no it's people that are sick and they're getting okay well let's check your Bloods you know maybe it might be you know once a year you're getting just your your doctor's visit okay we'll just run a bunch of panels but you're not going to go to like a deep dive you're not looking for B12 unless you you think there's a problem with B12 deficiency someone's anemic and they're having other sorts of problems it's okay well check your B12 right so that average is an average for people that are unwell 90% of Americans have at least one metabolic illness 70% of Americans are either overweight or obese and so you don't want to be average average sucks average is is is sick right and so the B12 range actually dips into deficiency because you know you can have a certain range but like you know the lower half of that range in most areas in Australia and the US and Europe and elsewhere the lower half of that range is actually in in severe deficiency so you can be in in the in the so-called normal range but you can actually get demin of your of your nerves you can actually get nerve damage and brain damage from this right because below a certain point below um was it 400 P grams per milliliter I think um unless we got the the units mixed up but anyway below that is uh you can actually get demyelination but like in Australia that the range is like 160 to 620 so there's a big part of that between 160 and 400 that you are actually in true vitamin B12 deficiency and you will get and you can get nerve damage and demolation of your of your nerves uh and you're considered normal and your doctor say yeah well you're normal it's normal you don't need a supplement it's normal a better range is 800 to 12200 that's an actual range for good health but even the high end once you get over 620 well you're high it's too much B12 no it's just more than the average person has but the average person is sick and malnourished so that's not a good good way of looking and I I have I have people that come to me go I'm I'm really worried about my B12 it's so high it's like it's not high first of all you're you're you're just getting into the good ranges and you're certainly not high and so you know these guys saying like oh well my B12 is normal is it because it may be normal for that that average value which is abnormal but I I wouldn't I wouldn't think for a second it's going to be actually in the in the appropriate levels so there was a study out of um Oxford in 2008 and they looked at at you know people eating different diets and they found that that vegans um actually after 5 years uh on on MRI they showed that their brains reduced in volume by over 5% on average right and they attributed that to to low B12 and and their B12 levels were like 180 or something like that so still in the normal range was just low normal but it's bloody low that is actually as that's actually deficient levels that's below half of the point that you can get deficiency that you can get nerve damage right and so you know we see this in neurosurgery we see people you know vegans vegetarians their their spinal cord actually Narrows in thins because of that demolina effect that you have right so those are just the axons coming down uh the spinal cord right and so that's that myelination all of a sudden thins thins Thins and you can see the spinal cord thin as well so you know I mean this is this is actually causing severe neurological dysfunction normally if you have a normal amount of B12 you can last around 8 nine years before you start really getting into trouble and because it can last it can persist and and you can use this for a long time so that's usually like even the long-term vegans you know after a couple years I mean you know again 84% quit after a year and me like I I feel like crap I'm not doing this and so they they cut out of that but the like the real di hards that stick with it a lot of them do stop after sort of seven eight nine years when they're like their health is just deteriorating to such an extent that they really just can't Justified anymore and I think that the ones that make it longer than that um you know may I mean I had a guy on my my podcast he was he was vegan for 21 years and he was really staunch about it but every now and then you know he'd have some fish and I think that that was really important for his health and you know and taking a lot of supplements and taking a lot of vitamins and um you know if you eating you know certain things you know that are that are less harmful than others if you're very careful about it you could probably do longer if you're taking a lot of supplements and things like that but just you know as we saw with you know that that study with the MSI and the akuu even replacing the you know the vitamins and minerals that they were lacking didn't reverse their health outcomes you know they they were missing something else or they were getting direct harm from the plants that were eating so yeah and I I I ended up talking to one um nutritionist and she was finishing up her PhD in uh nutritional sciences and everything has been inundated from the uh from the 7th Day Adventist Church who started the field of of nutritional um dietetics and things like that the first textbook on nutritional science at at the University level was written by the seventh day Adventists who are religiously anti-meat because they think that it causes lustful feelings lust is a sin therefore meat is a sin and they've been pushing this for about 130 years now and they started the field of nutritional sciences and dietetics in 1917 I think and the first textbook came out in like I think like 1925 or something like that and that was that was the original textbook and that was that was from them and so and they they're still involved they're heavily involved even to to this day even in the wo there's a lot of seventh day Adventists that are on these nutritional panels talking about how meat's bad and things like that they are very biased they're vegans vegetarians and Seventh Day Adventist and they have they have a bias against meat they don't disclose that but but that's uh that is the case and so you know they are are pushing this and saying that you know you need to do this and in and so the nutritionists that are they're going and learning nutrition they're like oh wow it's all plant-based it's all plant-based and so of course they're coming out saying that you shouldn't eat meat because all the nutritionists say this well of course they do because they're being indoctrinated this isn't a real education this is this is they've been propagandized and so this uh lady that I was speaking to was all plant-based plant-based plant-based because that's what she'd been taught and we went point for Point study for study just I mean literally over weeks we just have these conversations would just come up and finally the thing that got her was that that point on supplementation and she was just like okay well what supplements do you take and I was like and it just sort of struck me it was just like confused me I was like I I don't I I don't take anys zero yeah exactly none and she was like well no of course you do everyone has to take suppl you have to take supplements I'm like I was like who hold on a second no like if you're eating what you're designed to eat then by by definition you should not have to take supplements if you have to take supplements then by definition your diet is deficient and cannot be your biologically appropriate diet cannot right and and all of a sudden she just that struck her because she takes buttloads of supplements at the time and all these other people and that's where you oh you have to take supplements you have to take supplements and then she's a nutritionist this is what you do well no that you shouldn't have to do that if you are actually getting if you are actually eating what is most nutritious for you you should not have to take supplements and that was all of a sudden it hit her and she's like okay I I obviously don't know enough about this I need to look into this I need to start looking into this more I mean I I just I've realized that I don't I don't know as much as I thought I did and eventually she came to me she's like my entire education was a lie you know it's like it's this was all a lie you know and um and she's like I've seen it you've proven it you've shown me like I I don't know what I'm going to do with myself I I don't know what end up happening she said that she in hospital medicine in hospital nutrition you just have you have to push the the textbook and uh you know or you can get brought up and get your license revoked and lose your job and so she's like well I can't do that I can't push that on people because I know it's wrong and I know it's hurting them and so I can't I can't do that so I don't I don't know what the hell I'm going to do I think she went into sort of the life coaching realm which you could you could do as a PhD in nutrition you you know that that'll hold a lot of weight you know and so I don't know what what happened to her after that though but uh yeah she was she was she was quite taken back by that exact point that like no but you have to take supplements and like you shouldn't have to take supplements I hope you made her a nice ribeye [Music] yeah you know I've I've had a few friends that I've converted over from like vegan vegetarianism and I've like made them their first steak that they've eaten in like years and they're like cutting down they're like eating they're all like hesitant going I'm like watching them and I was just like this almost feels like evil like I'm like making them like eat people just like yes eat it you know and like some sort of people think I'm like no this is good this is good for them whatever but it just like felt like doing something bad and they eat it I'm like that's the best damn thing I've ever eaten in my life and then they they're like really into it after that you know so like when you start eating those things again I've spoken to so many people that come from like a plant-based diet or vegan vegetarian diet and they say that when they start eating meat again it feels like they just they just come alive and they just have this whole Vitality that comes to them it's just like one person said well actually several people have said that once they started eating meat again it felt like they were alive for the first time in years and that's that's always very very good to to see that in in person in practice I have my uh my daughter who's six now but she because I love the barbecue so she's been eating meat with me since like one and a half two years since you can start chewing you know yeah and then I got my little son now who makes one here in in a couple weeks but I experimented with him right so I got I cut a very little thin very thin piece cuz he's only got four teeth on the front but he doesn't have anything to choose I got super thin where pretty much if you just have it in your mouth it's going to melt away kind of thing bro you remember his face his eyes lit up bro he couldn't get enough of that as soon as that thing went down he's like he wanted more he can't really talk but he makes sound and he was letting you know give me some more of that like right now and uh he's pic so the little kid's getting slices fat and his eyes light up and he's just making noises for more it's my daughter's favorite food she's six years old her favorite food is literally Little Pon is a Brazilian cut it's the it's the top s wi cap so if you go like a Brazilian steakhouse it's usually their their main cut over there and uh it's just it's a nice soft piece of meat with a fat cap so the fat obviously drops the flavor all over the meat but it's so soft I mean Americans like RI eyes but Brazilian like the P or the top serine yeah but yeah both of them man as soon as they as soon as they taste that that if if we say we're having PNA for dinner or you know barbecue for dinner like their smiles are just massive Can't Get Enough oh that's awes best thing yeah definitely and I mean I was it kind of like a finishing thing here it's like it's funny that like um you know that like what makes in terms of the people that you've talked to like in the vegans that you talked to what what is their foregoing argument what is like the what is their main argument for being vegan well there's there generally sort of comes from three three angles so like you know nutritionally uh environmentally and ethically you know and some people go I I I think and I think most of the you know gurus in that uh in that in that realm and especially vegan realm vegetarian is probably more health related um and um but in the vegan realm it's it's a lot of you know ethical sort of uh concerns which is fair you know and and and uh and all that I mean all these things should be taken into consideration I think it's not just one thing I think we should consider all these things um but a lot of people are coming to it because of Health you know they want to they want to lose weight they want to be healthy and so you know that that's how they get that's how the most people come to veganism is because well this is what's what's healthiest and then they sort of get wrapped up into the sort of political nature of it with with the ethical environmental sort of side of things but they generally start with the nutritional side of things and you know like the game changers garbage I mean that that influenced a lot of people and they're oh well this is the best thing to do is what these top athletes are doing that's what I'm going to do you know it's just like putting on a on a you know a Sprite commercial with you know like an NBA player you know like Grant he'll drinks Sprite oh Dr Grant Hill drinks all that sort of thing it's like oh I'm going to drink Sprite now because Grant Hill drinks Sprite you know and that was that was actually the funny Sprite commercial was like you know he was he's like oh gr Hill drink Sprite oh I'm gonna drink Sprite and he's like if you want to make it to the NBA and this guy's this kid's like going up for a dunk and then it just like hits the rim falls on his ass and he goes practice but if you want to quench your thirst you know drink Sprite so they were saying like it's ridiculous to do what what a celebrity is doing and think you're going to get the same you know outcome you know just by by drinking Sprite or something like that but that's what people do they saw the game changers saw wow these people are getting this this result so I'm going to do that and you know it is to be fair you know if you're saying like hey this is how I train this is what I eat and this is what I do probably a good blueprint for someone else to come after and so people were really influenced by that and um and a lot of people came to to veganism because of that um and the a lot of the reasons are predicated on you know Anil Keys's work and those other works from those Harvard professors uh that we know are fraudulent now this has been published in peerreview journals showing that they were bought and paid for we know their contracts P their contracts were published um from the sugar uh company called the sugar Foundation now called the sugar Association and they they completely dirtied the waters you know even even anel Keys did other uh randomized control trials you know reducing LDL cholesterol and actually uh heart disease heart uh heart disease heart attack Strokes went up and he buried the study for decades and it's you know subsequently come out you know and people asked him was like well why why did you bury this was it was a bad study did something go wrong or whatever it's like well no we just were pretty disappointed with the outcome like you're not allowed to do that dick you know like you need to publish that you even if it goes against your narrative and so these things were buried for decades but they've come out they've come to light now and so you know that's a lot that is saying that like saturated fat cholesterol causes heart disease you know I don't want anything to do with that or fat makes you fat you are what you eat if you eat fat you get fat well if I eat broccoli do I turn into a broccoli okay what about if I eat meat you know that turns into meat and I am meat and I want to build and create and maintain meat so I think I'm going to eat meat um and even herbivores they actually do do very well eating meat because it's completely bioavailable they don't have to do a whole bunch of weird chemical processes to it and this is why you'll see horses eating baby birds and you know elk and things like that eating rabbits and I've never seen that before until he showed me that or eating baby because it was probably Mal nurse it needed minerals or needed some kind of nutrients that it wasn't getting in its diet so deer deer will eat them too deer will eat other animals yeah yeah you know and Elk as well my my sister first told me about that she lives out in sort of the out in the mountains in Washington state and bunch of elk come through the yard all the time and she was just like yeah it was like little ducklings and this elk just just came over just just chewed it up like oh God you know it's just and yeah is crazy and um you know so so that but that's the the argument that the vegans make is that saturated fats bad for it causes heart disease all that sort of stuff and and so that's bad but we know that's a lie we know that's not true we know that's been misrepresented you know and and by you know a number of different things and uh people watching this probably you know know my feelings on that if you haven't yet you can go see my video on the facts about cholesterol and heart disease where I I lay out a lot of the research and data behind all this um so that's the main one and and then you know saying that uh you know that that that we're you we benefit from it there all the nutrients you need you have to get from plants and all that sort of stuff you don't need to get it from meat and so you can undo that pretty easily that's pretty easy to to undo and then you talk to them about that and you you tell them I like well no actually we've been eating meat for millions of years and the ice ages there were no plant so obviously you you have to be able to get everything you need for meat in the proportions that you needed there are people alive right now like the Inuit and the Messiah that are still only eating this way and they're they're actually doing better than most people oh but they their life expectancy is 60 years no average from birth is 60 years and their infant mortality rate is huge because they're living in the in the savannah with lions and they fight lions with sticks and win right these are badasses right but they live a harsh life and they don't have modern medicine and they don't have you know prenatal care and things like that um they do have death so that'll that'll skew the age range as well too for the hza and for these people they do have INF infancy deaths so some do make it to to a long fruitful life and then they have infancy death so SK skewes the age range another thing to notice too is that with like the Nets and certain people still living up in the north a lot of them are having issues with heavy metals and mercury poisoning because the reindeer that they hurt are eating the fossil fuel exposure of for for the Mercury so the people that are most in tune with the planet are suffering the most with the people who care less about the planet right because the result of that mercury is getting into the reindeer and into the animals that they eat and then they're dying from Mercury contamination it's very unfortunate so that's affecting them now oh that's nasty have different herders up there from Nets and different Inuits and they're getting exposure to high levels of mercury and that's because of our our lifestyles our first world lives oh wow yeah no I had heard that so how's the Mercury getting into into the reindeer do you know well fossil fuels are res it's it's going out into the environment we're releasing tons and tons like over 100,000 metric tons a year and so it turns into this absorbable Mercury that gets into our water and then it just there water collecting Mercury yeah especially in the oceans it's really bad so you have the higher food chain with Mercury but then you have the lower part of the food chain now with microplastics so these animals are eating these things and then these people are getting exposure to it because I did a research where people were saying okay well they don't have long lives I'm like okay well why or now as of now they're having shorter lifespans but they're getting Mercury exposure up there which is very fascinating yeah but also but also again that's average from birth right and if you have you have a high infant mortality rate you know that's that's obviously going to change like in you know the 1800s people say oh well people only live to you know into their 30s so you know you didn't see these diseases and it's like well no again that's average from birth and that's the US statistics for you know americ am an in 1850 average from birth was 36 but these guys were not dumb they certainly weren't as dumb as people are now they actually looked at this and they did by every 10 years by every decade how long would you live if you made it to if you started from zero you know um you know what uh if you started from zero how long would you live on average it would be 36 years but if you made it to 10 how long would you live well that's on average uh you know longer than that you know so like you know 50 6 years and as you go up it's more and more and more and so when you get to actual like adulthood um you know it's uh it's um you know you actually get up to to similar ages that uh you know that people would would live now you know and you know the if you're looking at at contemporary populations um it's uh you know like the the people in Hong Kong have the longest average life expectancy from birth and they eat the most meat per capita of anywhere else in the world they eat like one and a half pounds of meat a day on average right so this is including children and women not just you know uh you know you know the adult males and so you know that they're eating a lot of beef or a lot of meat anyway and so you know it's quite um uh you know it's quite a different story when you say well the Blue Zone so why wasn't that considered in the Blue Zone I that has like the highest life expectancy you know and yet and we're not considering that in the blue zones you know because it doesn't it doesn't fit that narrative um and uh can you just hold on for for two seconds guys I'm just going to pause okay yeah sorry about that guys um so I I um alv I wanted to ask you a question um you know you you came to carnivore a while ago obviously you had a lot of transition between uh you know from from paleo and different sorts of things but what actually made you turn to carnivore and you know how long ago was that what what sort of you know tipped tipped that over for you one of my good friends and Mentor uh Rick a good buddy of mine he kind of led me down that path I was having different symptoms and issues as I mentioned before I had alopecia I had gut issues U little bit of extra body fat muscular skeletal pain acne was a problem that I had and he introduced this to me in about 2017 18 and I was already pretty much there close very close but I was still doing almonds and some a little bit of vegetable I vegetable because I thought I had to I literally like steam like two or three pieces of broccoli with my meat so I was almost there but I still had these interferences and so I was getting bad acne and so I was acne and gut issues I had eista and I had a couple other bugs in my stomach that were just destroying me and I was at the point that I like boil chicken and steam broccoli and still have gut issues so my overall body was stressed out probably eating I was very intolerant to almonds I did some blood testing later and figured out that I was super intolerant to almonds um as well as gluten that I cut out early on but after doing blood testing I was seen I was intoler things I was consuming on that paleo diet that were praised as healthy foods all of the junk food that they make when it comes to keto paleo and back then they didn't have keto treats because it wasn't as popular but all that stuff has like fake sugars monk fruits Stevia almonds and it was destroying my gut I had no choice my gut was destroyed and most people hit that dead end and go to doctors and doctors just give you antibiotics and so you go down that cycle and so I it was based off a necessity MH I didn't have a choice my gut was thrashed and I was willing to try anything and at that point my friend introduced it and we were already there we're already eating grass-fed meats and Pastor raise animals and we were already hip to that because Paul Czech introduced that that type of diet was like 20 years ago he was already talking about this stuff and at a necessity that's what led me to go to the carnivore diet I didn't have a choice and now that I did it I got all these awesome benefits like I got an eight pack I got completely shredded I thought I had a fast before and he taught me that you don't have to fast when you're on a carnivore diet because you get the same benefits and so I was able to have abs before because I was starving myself for 18 hours at a time and detoxing from the plants that I was eating so I was able to achieve the physique relatively close but it wasn't quite there something was still off because I was getting these symptoms so once I went fully carnivore everything changed it went from like a negative to like a bunch of positives skin got better energy levels got better I'm older like you said I feel better than in my 20s at 42 athletic performan is is is great as he said we can do a lot of pull-ups all day long uh energy is great in the gym recovery is great I'm not as sore the next day flexibility is better so at a necessity I didn't have a choice unfortunately I wish it wasn't that way I wish I would have found out about it when I was trying the Paleo stuff in 2007 six7 um but I'm glad I am doing it and along with the lab testing to make sure that minerals are balanced I do believe that some people might need some supplements but not randomly you have to test have to make sure and this is to make up for the plants that they ate before because we know that if you are eating plant-based diet you need more nutrients to to process that stuff so there might be their previous life but I wholeheartedly agree with you the majority of our nutrients should be coming from a species appropriate diet and we will fill the needs and the gaps based off of um our first worldl was I I believe that we're animals learning how to become humans so we're kind of reverse engineering what we're doing so this is not real life The Matrix that we live in so were trying to go back to what our ancestors were doing because they didn't have these issues that we were dealing with so out of necessity I didn't have a choice but I really do wish that I would have stumbled on it earlier but now that I know this information I'm very happy to share it with other highlevel athletes that want to perform well and people with autoimmune disorders and people that have hit a dead end wall it's hard for me to convey this information to people that don't have full-on blown symptoms yet m u most people are nursing symptoms in our society you'll notice it whether it's allergies their skin stuff but they tolerate it because they just think that that's the way things are but it's not when you're eating the right diet most of that stuff clearly clears out so at a necessity it turned into these amazing positive um results that I didn't I would have never imagined that acne would clear up like I I dealt with adult acne I didn't have it as a kid I got it in my 30s and it was bad and it was like painful it hurt and it would come out and um it went away it went right away and I'm I'm researching it looking at Dairy and reading about lactoferrin and candada and all these things and just going carnivore solved it I tried all the other stuff it didn't work and carnivore worked immediately and I'm meeting mostly beef I do do pork but I only eat a baricco pork so Spanish pork don't eat much Birds anymore but yeah mostly red meat eggs um and at of necessity amazing things happen yeah absolutely and you did uh you know you go by SF ninja because you did like the American Ninja Warrior competitions is that right yeah I competed on there for a while yeah was that was that when you were carnivore as well or or before after I was I was I was more heavy paleo transitioning into carnivore so while I was competing I wasn't really eating much plants I was just kind of taking pork chops and meat on onto the show with me and eating that they actually interviewed me about eating organ meats and stuff and they wanted to use that angle on me like eating weird food supposedly but I was talking about liver in 2015 and talking about organ meats and the importance of these things because we learned about Weston Price early on and that led us pretty far but once we learned that information we saw that there's much more before the fermentation and the sprouting of nuts and there's a lot more before that so it's very fascinating that that's what led us there and to see the state that they were in at that time having issues with flour and sugar they weren't even eating high fructose corn syrup yet they weren't eating aspartame they weren't eating glyphosate or seed oils yet and they had issues with flour and sugar right so wherever Dr Price went their teeth were rotting and so that stuck with me early on and then when we started looking deeper into their diets we're like okay this can't be they weren't sprouting nuts forever this is like a new thing or the things that they're eaing in the videos that he projected or said that they were eating weren't necessarily all their ancestral Foods because they weren't able to eat bread and potatoes during certain times if you go back far enough but that led me down the path to getting deeper into the ancestral diets and then I spent a month in Africa I went to the msai mara spent a month there in Tanzania and Kenya and I asked a lot of questions that I knew the answers to but just to get that qualified for me which is really cool and I got to see two different types of Messiah I got to see the colonized Messiah that were fat and then I got to see the people still living in the horse D or the cow dong huts and they're they're Nomads they move around and they their worth is they base their worth off of how much livestock they have so you can have as many wives as you like if you have enough livestock to support a family right so that's that's their beliefs and that's how they've conducted for a long period of time and they have a lot of the First World stuff like they're they're not exposed to any of this stuff so they have a way more simpler life the ones that are still living in their ancestral ways and like you said they're tall they're like 6' three they're lean they're very healthy they have these different rights to passage and they respect the Earth and and and one guy picked up like the stick and started carving it and just started brushing his teeth with it and I'm you know asking him what he's doing he just tell me he's brushing his teeth and I asked him do you eat plants and I know they don't eat plants but he's like no but we use them as medicine yeah and so that stuck with me because when people it's not that plants are bad you can't just say plants are bad but they're not good for humans to eat but they can be used as medicine and we don't eat medicine you only take medicine when you're sick and so when he said that I was like whoa he's like we have all of our medicine here as we're just hiking through you know where where they are in the MSI Mara so that that was a fascinating thing is that you don't eat medicine you you take it when you're ill and you would eat your food so it's completely different when when they introduce that concept to me they're very in tune with nature and they're eating mostly just goat uh their beef the blood because they can sew up the blood after so the cow can keep producing and and the milk and sometimes they'll mix the milk with the blood and we got to try that and they have different rituals and it's it's very fascinating they don't have all the frivolous stuff that we have to deal with we have all these really odd first world stressors that are very insignificant when you when you look at things in perspective yeah definitely and um well that's an awesome experience I would love to do that and go and live with those guys and and uh and see and just just see what it's like and I think that you know like you know being in Bangladesh when you see like real problems real actual you know life-threatening problems all the time and when you're out in the in the in the savannah and you got to you got to contend with lions on a daily basis you know you know different sorts of things that we we consider this is outrageous all these people screaming about on on the news every night just it's not going to make the radar I mean like you know there are lions out there you know why are H know what's that they're hurting their cattle through big game you have a big five there you have dinos you have giraffes you have lions leopards and they're hurting cattle through that so this whole idea of people like oh they're lean because they get exercise nonsense that they're not lean because they get exercise they do get exercise but that's not why they're lean they're eating the species appropriate diet but they say that they don't get heart attacks because they're doing exercise I'm like wait so meat causes heart attacks and will cause colon cancer but because they do exercise they're not going to get that now that it doesn't make any sense but that's the rationale that people have when you introduce this information yeah and too well there was a study in the 1980s actually they looked at that because that was that was at the height of this this whole like oh fat is bad for they were like well the Messiah they eat a lot of saturated fat they eat a lot of fat and a lot of meat but they're not fat you know fat makes you fat so what's going on here they must just work out all the time and they like these guys are like Olympic Athlete sort of level physiques and and that as described in this study and so they went like okay well they must be working out just a crazy amount they must be working out like an elite you know Olympic Athlete or something like that they found out oh gosh actually no it was only they only uh exercised more uh like 1.6 times as much as the average American right which was around the world was was thought to be just the most sedentary slothful Couch Potato right and so the Messiah were only 1.6 times that right and so they're oh well it just must be genetic you know we just we don't know why but yeah you know it's it off yeah exactly so instead of thinking about it and things like well maybe our maybe our our our our you know uh presumption that meat and fat are bad for us well maybe that this is actually a point against that and it is it's a major Point against that but they didn't consider that at the time because that that was just well USDA said it so obviously it has to be true and so yeah but they they don't they don't exercise all that much uh more than than other people I would I would probably say they don't work out as much as you guys do at all you know more lives they have a survival life so their workout is being out in the bush yeah just being out there and walking you know chasing and and running from things you know if they have to and uh but most of that's just going around walking doing their thing they're very in tune with the planet and we're very disconnected from it right so there's actual footage you can Google this of three Messiah walking up to lions and stealing meat and walking away from it all three of them just Google it they walk up and take the meat from The Lion and walk away and the lion get scared of them that's pretty they take the meat and there's other ones I've seen where they're stealing meat from Cheetah which is even more like vicious and snapping just grab the meat from them and they hold their position that's how in tune they are with the planet so that's a good way to see how strong and the capability of of what a human has inside of him and how we've been repressed from that because these three guys are making themselves big and they're taking the meat from the Lions and the lions like oh are they serious run away well you go in you walk in with confidence like that you know and things AR what's going on you know and uh yeah I saw the one with the cheetah I haven't seen the one with the Lions but I saw the one with the cheetah there one guy yeah cheers are like freaking out and one guy just has like a switch it wasn't even like a big like Club in the face just like just get on there like snapping one guy's pulling away and they're freaking out and he just keeps just whipping him in the face face and so one guy's whipping him in the face and and keeping him back with the other one just drags it off and they they just walk away they're so casual about it so casual it's normal to have this confidence we know damn well that if you were to break your your confidence that thing will swipe at you once or bite you in the neck and you're done you become its food yeah probably looked at the cheat like I'm gonna smash you bro they walked in there with a lot of confidence these these ancestral people had they're very in tune with the planet they're very in tune and they they know I don't I you know it's disheartening to hear Dr Price call them Primitives because I think it's the other way around he he was the one that was primitive going to learn from them V Jamar Stephenson that's another one who who had a lot of good information that got kind of brushed under the under the rug because of the Dr Kellog stuff the 7day Adventist going on at the same time he had a lot of good information he went up there and became healthier he got stuck up there and got healthier so this Arctic Explorer got stuck up there and he supposed to get food sent to him did it and had live with with the Inuits up there they called the escal at the time but they were Inuits indigenous and he ate their food and came back healthier and he was so stoked by that that he did the largest random control uh trial study got a whole hospital and fed them all carnivore diet and got them all healthy but because it was sponsored I Believe by Meat industry it got kind of swept under the rug the same time that Dr Kelloggs and the s-day Adventist were pushing for cereals for breakfast as an anti- aphrodesia so there's a lot of information that that pops out now that we're we're getting access how about those the ones in Africa the Messi people over there you said like exercise but how much time do they actually stay just sitting around not doing anything I think they like all have it depends on what they're doing but they have to create shelter because they're Nomads so they're always moving around to graze the the cattle so it depends on what your role is but I think I mean just from studying how these people they were very sophisticated at hunting not the Messiah because they weren't really hunting as much as the hza or other indigenous people but they were farmers but they they become very practical at their lives if all you have to worry about a shelter food and you know keeping the family intact they have pragmatic lives so it it becomes just it's natural for them like when I there's videos of the Inuits hunting and they create fences in like lakes and they Corral all these fish and they're getting hundreds of pounds of fish in the middle of the winter so people say oh it's not realistic to hunt and gather every day nonsense these people were highly evolved and and intelligent with and and S phisticated with their forms of hunting this guy's like catching hundreds of pounds of fish in the middle of dead winter whereas one of us goes up there we'd all starve to death because we wouldn't know what to do so I believe if your job was to get shelter and to hunt and to and to eat then you would have a lot of time to sit around and talk about philosophy after because they have their things intact so they have less frivolous things to worry about than we do but they're very sophisticated when it comes to being in tune with nature so yeah I guess like there is some kind of daily activity everybody's at least doing some at least maybe once or few times a day yeah they're moving getting water picking up animals moving the cattle around some of the strongest people I know are people that live on farms or that work Farms or that are like you know some some people from the Midwest or you know you just shake their hand and their hand is like they never lifted a weight in in their life but yeah they you know pick hail bals up 50 bales of hay a day yeah that's yeah they're strong man they're strong and then sometimes like you we being in like you know San Francisco I'm sure there's people that don't pick up anything for days at a time well that's why we have the Obesity and the 90% of people with autoimmune disorders metabolic dysfunction overweight right we have over 80% of people now are overweight it's probably higher now after the pandemic most health practitioners are overweight most doctors are obese nurses are obese so like the whole Matrix is of so it's almost like maybe like a part of an ideal human lifestyle is a certain amount of activity yeah on a daily basis I believe that's why we work out is to make up for not being hunters and gatherers because we would be on the field doing these Primal movement patterns Squad lunch Push Pull B Twist on on field we wouldn't have to go to the gyms and I think that's why they're Sports yeah well the physical activity that they had emulate that yeah yeah and also emulate War you know and we sort of yeah civilized War a bit as well you know where you have like you there two team rivals just coming in and just battling each other that's just a bit you get that sort of that natural aggression out instead of you know actually having like a clan Warfare and killing each other or you know you know actual you know professional fighting I mean that's that is that is you know that down to you know a one-on-one sort of situation um you that's that's sort of meeting that that need and desire and drive of people to have to compete and dominate and be you know uh you know physically dominant in in you know in among their peers and things like that as well and uh but yeah it's um you know we're sort of I think we're pretending at life more than anything now you know because we're doing all these things that emulated things that were just part of life that the Messiah deal with every single day um and you know the idea that you know it's not practical to be a hunter gatherer every day it's kind of crazy to me because the thing is that we were hunters for three million years and uh really only hun gatherers for the last 20,000 years and um before that really just Hunters you know and they would live like the Messiah or or whomever and they would they knew which plants they could eat if they needed to or to use medically but really they just ate meat they just hunted and eat meat you know what what animal out there is living any other way all animals in the wild you know if you're a predator you're hunting you're hunting or you're dying that's it and uh you know and the herbivores they're they're foraging and they're finding their food and they're moving they're going they're just looking for food looking for food that's what all animals do and we're part of that too it's unrealistic no that's that's that's the way of the world that's how it actually used to work and people would say well you can't have civilization without uh without agriculture I don't know if I buy that I don't know if that's that's an argument that's a long that's an argument that's long been made I don't buy it because you know the Native Americans there about a hundred million Native Americans just just like in America like North like you know north of Mexico sort of America and um and in can as well and they they had like cities like in St Louis what's now St Louis there's an area that had like permanent structures and buildings that that were estimated could have fit 1 million people one million full-time residents right wow in like 14 1500s we found this right or really the 1600s we found it because you know after there was like some sort of plague that wiped through that wiped out like 95% of Native Americans I don't think it was intentional like the small pox blankets or anything like that but something happened and hit them and there like you know the pilgrims coming over to Plymouth Rock they came and there was like no one there there there's supposed to be people there and there really wasn't anyone and then after that sort of period in the 1600s people started moving West they couldn't go west for 200 years before that because there wasn't any West to go it was just it was so densely populated that they were like they're on their little patch and that's where they stayed and um and you couldn't go west because there were just a butload of people there there wasn't any room to go but now all of a sudden people were gone they're like okay well let's let's explore let's see what's happening they started going out and going out couldn't find anyone couldn't find anyone they're like what the hell is going on and they came across these ghost towns and one was in in St Louis and it was like and but the they had these trade routs like these five major trade routs going up to the Great Lakes going out east west south and all these sorts of different directions that were had been so well used for hundreds and hundreds of years that they were still there you know decades after after no one had used them and then they found these these cities that were you know would have would have housed a million people at you know at any given time and so they they just ate meat you know these weren't Farmers this it wasn't an agrarian society there was a hunter Society you know they had Buffalo drops where they would they would chase a part of the herd out and buffalo would fall over a cliff they die that was their food for the year they had one big danger ous event a year and that was it you know and they you know hunt and do other sorts of things throughout you know throughout the rest of the year but that was the main supply of their food you know for the plains Plains Indians and so that was that was a huge society that was that was completely uh surviv on on on the migration routes of animals they weren't even it wasn't even livestock you know this was just this was was just hunting and then you know the the Mongol Empire the largest Empire largest contiguous Empire ever existed and they were carnivores you know they lived like the Messi do now they drank horse blood ate horse meat and fermented Mar's milk and these guys were huge these big strong bastards that just AB swept through all the you know two continents two major continents and uh and and and carved out this massive Empire that lasted for hundreds of years until there's some sort of catastrophe and massive die off of the plants and the vegetation and the cow and and cow people that were hurting cows were just more adapted than than people with horses horses don't get as much nutrition protein out of out of grass as cows do cows get most of the nutrition out of out of grass and so the people that were better at or had had more cows and things like that they were the ones who sort of you know took over and I think that's really what Russia is now you know those old remnants of the old Mongol Empire and so you know that's um that's a massive Empire that just they just ate meat you know and and they had cities they ran cities and they this is what they they did now maybe they're taking over other cities you know you could argue that but either way they had an Empire running on meat for hundreds of years and it was massive so you know I don't I just don't I don't believe those those statements you know that you have to have agriculture to have Society to have civilization and and you hun gather a life is just not really feasible it's just a pipe dream we've been doing it for millions of years and even in the last few hundred years we have seen examples of massive civilizations exclusively eating meat and in fact those lands were much more fertile as a result of it you know the grass was so tall in the middle of America at that time with hundreds of millions of Buffalo and you know billions of other large game animals throughout the plains that the grass was so long that it was tall that it was uh there's reports that the the Explorers could tie the grass and Knots over their horses heads while on horse back right massive it's like you know tall grass in India or something like that where you're expecting like tigers and things like that to come running out but that was it you know the animals those ruminant animals they actually made the ground more fertile they made the uh the plant life more abundant because they made the the the soil more rich and when you take those things away the more animals you take away the less fertile the land gets the more depleted the soil gets and the less plant life there is and so you know in fact it's not feasible to not do that and we have I think you know a clock ticking at the moment that if we don't start getting back to massively animal-based society that we're we're going to run into serious serious problems very soon isn't that when they had like the isn't that what the Dust Bowl was or like where they had all these farming lands and then all the soil got so dry and kill it off all the micro that all of a sudden now you had a bunch of dead soil that you couldn't grow anything on and led to a bunch of is isn't that what the Dust Bowl was yeah you know that's exactly right and it was turning into a desert and it was turning into like a Sahara desert in the middle of America where before this was so this was was so like just verdant you know had all this this plant life and grass uh there was just massive massive massive stocks of grass and yeah so they um that was that was due to farming techniques they were just just you know the way they were farming there's just this just straight row you know miles long the wind would pick up and just blow it all up all way they blow away all the loose top soil that you've just churned up in your plow um or it rains and it washes that off washes the seeds off washes all the top soil off and and so it just kept doing that and they just you know and there was a lot of top soil there's a lot of top soil but eventually they just they just wore it out and um and so then they you know when when that's massively picking up and middle of America where have these massive massive farms and doing in this fashion that was sort of getting worse and so they figured it out they figured out this was from our farming techniques and so they were able to now you see a lot of scallop patterns like a big big curves and circles and things like that uh that's one of the reasons uh one one of the ways they prevented this was so it's not just a straight row that goes for miles and miles and miles it's sort of curved and turn so wind can go and pick it up or the rain can sort of wash but it's only going to go so far you're not going to wash a lot of it away but even even still with our current farming techniques we're still losing 27.5 billion tons of top soil a year and top soil is made about half an inch every 500 years so it's it's it is a scarce commodity so so that is is the equivalent of about an area the size of Kentucky every year right of top soil and so like that that's a that's a vast a vastly um diminishing Vanishing resource you know that's that's going away quickly and we will run out and I think that that's what the major deserts of the world like in the Middle East and in Africa like the Sahara Desert that's a man-made desert and in Egypt those the the pyramids in the Sphinx I remember in the 90s they did soil samples under under those structures and they were like oh have there always been uh you know desert people and desert pyramids and things like that and they they're shocked they say well actually you know the soil is is more what we would expect in like Jungles so these were like these were probably built in jungles so like jungle pyramids jungle sphinxes and things like that these were jungle people but then you know Egypt was the Bread Basket of the ancient world this where they grew a lot of grain they had the Nile River and it flooded every year and so it replenished the the nutrients into the soil every year what does that mean that means that you had to replenish the nutrients because the nutrients were going away you were stripping them out and putting them in the plants and then you were taking those plants away they weren't going back into the soil but what happens when you start farming when you don't have a Nile river that that floods every year then then the nutrients don't get back in in the soil and you have the same problems that we had in the middle of America and things turn turn to dust they had Locust swarms they had dust storms and uh and that was I mean that's like straight out of Exodus you know like the plagues you know sent on Pharaoh um you know were the same things that we were seeing in the dust bow era and that's what you know people thought at the time this was this was the wrath of God he's angry with us we're being so sinful and um so I think that's what happened back then as well um you know you look at there's a satellite images using infrared technology looking down at the Sahara Desert they actually see like cities and and human settlements and and structures in what is now the Sahara Desert so this is this has you know washed over uh you know a lot of human settlements uh you know over thousands of years and I think that's largely to do with with farming you know look at uh you know uh the Middle East and you know this is this is this is the the birth of uh of Agriculture that's where it's thought to be like the first instance of large spread farming was in like Samaria and uh you know Babylon which is now modern day Iraq right and you know back then you read Gilgamesh which is like the oldest written story you know that that's oldest thing that we found written down um and uh that if you read that it talks about those Plains being like a savannah you know like just there big grassy Fields with deer and analou and buffalo and all these sorts of things and and Cedar forests that have never you know seen an Axe and like Gilgamesh has to go and his um his his buddy anky do they go and they fight the spirit of the of the forest so that they can cut down these cedar trees and make a big Temple and things like that and and then like you know the spirit like tells them warns them that this is actually going to be destructive and and horrible this is actually going to destroy the world something like that sort of bit um you know ominous and and for you know a lot of foreshadowing to what we're seeing today with the destruction of the world but you know they're describing you know very verdant plant-filled savanas and forests and things like that in what is modern day Iraq right and so you know and so that I think that that's a direct result of of the farming techniques that have just sort of destroyed the land and turned these things into into uh Barren Landscapes people blame that on hurting but you know I mean yes and you can you can overg graze and and destroy the land you can certainly do that but if you're if you're a migratory nomadic herder you're moving through you're moving through you're not you're not destroying the land you're making it better just like migratory animals and you know this thought that you know oh it's it's the animals that overg graze and that which destroys the land you know they put this in practice in Zimbabwe and they they killed uh 30,000 elephants because they were saying well the elephants are causing deserts and they killed 30,000 elephants and the deserts got worse I was like well what does that tell you buddy and in fact the guy who uh did that was a guy named Alan Sav and he was devastated because he actually loves elephants but he proved that you know elephants were causing these deserts and of course then they killed 30,000 elephants and the deserts got worse right so he didn't actually prove anything he just you know proved it to himself and and to others thought that he proved it and uh but actually was the opposite and so that's why you know Richard fan said it doesn't matter how brilliant your theory is and it doesn't matter how smart you are if it doesn't agree with experiment it's wrong and so they did the experiment they killed 30,000 elephants and did the exact opposite so it's wrong and so he realized that he was wrong and he started looking into this and he realized no actually it's these migrating animals that make the land better and so he's taking you know large herds of animals bunched and moving like a migratory group of animals and they're regrowing deserts they're they're reversing desertification and I think it was in Patagonia they took like 25,000 sheep and moved them through like the deserts in Patagonia and the vegetation increased by 50% in one year right so it was you was a big big change and they're and they're making and this is where like sort of the regenerative farming uh mindset is coming from a lot of it's coming from the work of Alan sa he's been doing this for 40 years and showing and so people come to him say Hey how do I do this on my land so his land Zimbabwe is just like it's just jungles it's in like the middle of the desert you know but his patch is brilliant it's and elephants are moving in animals are moving in you know because it's it's you know such a an abundant source of life and so and that's making it even better and it's stabilizing the Waterway and they have water year round because it doesn't just like Flow Away elsewhere it flows off and just dissipates because the banks aren't secure you know the the water it doesn't draw water into the soil it doesn't draw water in uh it just it just dissipates and then evaporates off but where he's at he's got running water year round you know and so you know this is this is and this has been done again and again and again you know uh um you know and so when you have these experiments you have something in the published data it has to be reproducible it's like okay I'm going to follow these steps just like a you know recipe in a cookbook and I should be able to get the same results right and so if you can't if it's not reproducible it's wrong right his is reproducible again and again and again all over the world for the last 40 years when it's him doing it or someone else doing it and so you know this just indicative of the fact that you know we've been sold this false bill of goods that you know growing monocrop is oh that's that's life that's plants that's that's nature no you know one crop is not nature you you have to destroy the environment you have to destroy nature to grow that one crop you have to kill all the plants and all the animals you have to destroy an entire ecosystem just to grow that one crop and you're stripping nutrients out of the soil you're losing top soil you're losing nutrients you're making things worse and then you're not replacing it you're not making it better and they say oh well we just put in a bunch of you know petroleum based uh fertilizers and things like that well those aren't very good and you know they're dumping Mercury and crap into the system they have a lot of runoff again because you're putting in all these fertilizers and things rains uh washes that away gets into into the water supplies killing off you know tons and tons and tons of of uh you know um you know River and water life and sea life and things like that as well so this is actually like an e ecological disaster what we're doing and we really need to go back to that simple structure of just doing what is our biologically appropriate thing to do which is just eating meat it's better for us is better for uh the environment it's better for Animals overall it's better for the world overall and I I don't really see another way of doing this that's going to be successful we have people in third world countries paid beneath the poverty level picking these things and then flying it here and calling it ethical they may covered in glyos right so they're getting covered in pesticides uh they're paid beneath the poverty level so they're not paid much and then it's flown here how realistic is a food system where everything has to be flown on an airplane because we're so disconnected from the food system because we go to the grocery store but I'm in San Francisco there's no pineapple trees here here there's no kiwis here but we can get it any time of the year so it's a disconnected food system that's not realistic and it's on the backs of other people yeah when we're eating grass-fed beef it comes from this country like we're not exploiting people from other countries so how ethical is it to get someone paid beneath the poverty level to pick our fruits and vegetables that are covered in pesticides and then flying in here well yeah I mean and there's there's some of the stuff is really n nasty I mean and you know not even getting into the whole um you know rare Earths to do all the the battery and things like that I mean those are just terrible strip mines they're horribly dangerous people are just dying yeah it's just disgusting people can look that up but it's horrible I mean just completely inhumane working condition dying and and getting extremely hurt and exposed to heavy metals and things like that but even just the food thing like in India this is where like all our cashews come from and oh cashews are so good cashew milk and cashew this and cashew that look cashews are great like I I enjoy the taste of cashews even though I don't eat them anymore but I I remember they tasted good but they this is such a big industry now that they people are having their kids work to you know break it's it's quite an involved process breaking down these cashews you know heating them up breaking them down it's like comes with a big hard shell and they have to get this little tiny nut out of there um and uh and it's it's laborious work it can really damage your hands people get like you know burn their hands damage their hands getting caught in you know machinery and things like that and so but they're having their kids do this so instead of their kids going to school uh they make too much money making cashews and so they have to they have to have them out of school and then they're just making cash so they can make money uh for the for the family and so you know and uh you know it's um and we're we're benefiting off that and thinking oh this is so good it's this is just is one with nature this is just eating plants like but where did those plants come from you know who had to suffer as a result of it you know these people you know went there and and per crippled their hands uh to give you that stuff so that they could still live below the poverty poverty line and they didn't go to school as a result of that which means that they're never going to get out of out of the poverty that they're in now you know it's hard to say exactly you know would they've been able to go to school anyway you know if they were that impoverished that you know making a few extra cents a day is going to help the family so much that you know is better for them to come do that than go to school maybe they were in a position they wouldn't been able to go to school anyway they would have to do some other job it's hard to say but it but the fact remains is that these are kids this is child labor doing this and and it's and it's destructive to their health you know they get damaged they're they're they're they can permanently their hands and hurt themselves um for making cashews you know and that's you know that's not a good thing like any way you look at it well listen listen you guys talk a little bit just yeah makes you think are humans a positive or negative negative on the world right really at the end of the day modern or ancestral you know yeah and you know uh like since we've been doing the the since you know I've been learning more about the carnivore and stuff like that I've definitely you know one way that I try to help is try to you know keep it locally raised try to buy from sustainable Farms that are you know trying to go past your raay and something within driving distance trying to stay away from fruits that are being flown in or brought in from somewhere that's not within our region um but at the any of the day it's like it's almost like the more humans that are on the planet is that is that really a positive or A negative in the in the big scheme of things you know yeah it's all for demand it's big business big business and it's because of demand it's because you know people are choosing to put themselves first right people put themselves first well they're going to put them over someone else and that someone else is the little kid in India over there you know picking the picking the cashew trees because this guy over here thinks he's worthy of having you know some kid pick his you know cashew nuts or whatever the case may be but these people believe that it's an ethical diet they're saying that plant-base is better for the environment so how is that better for the environment when they're flying it here right so they need all these fossil fuels and airplanes require a lot of that and then you're having people that're extremely poor picking it and then they're they're using it as some form of virtue signaling and it's it's far from it because it's actually yielding the opposite effect yeah for sure because they believe that what they're doing is could you could also do that with animals right like you got these chickens being raised in on top of each other right one the chicken can't even open its wings oh yeah yeah that's unfortunate I don't want to eat that chicken you know that's not the chicken I want to eat I want to eat a chicken that's running you know running around and or cows like how many cows are in a little K or little you know by whatever they can't even so it goes not just but I think it's that makes me think about man how many different ways you know um you know could we do things the right way but yeah like when I definitely have talked to Alo about like you know so that's why I was asking what is the main reason like the people that are vegan that that tell you the reason they being vegan because from what I hear for the most part like is like oh you know mean to animals like well mean to animal wait a second mean to animals I mean like you're saying the agricultural farming is killing off how many microorganisms how many bees and microorganisms and like life in the soil all these things that are part of a bigger human cycle or life cycle shall we say bigger life Cy how many of these things are being killed off because you don't want to eat a cow instead you want to eat you know yeah some spinach or whatever and then you start having them amounts of land that you got to kind of in order to make you know because again and and the way I see it it's big business so then you know obviously it's easier to maintain a I don't know how many acres of just spinach things that don't move that are sitting there and that are getting sprayed with pesticides to allow them to grow as opposed to maintaining a cow right but at the same time a cow one cow can feed how many people hundreds and hundreds pounds as long as it's you know being raised properly and it has its space it's living a good life I don't feel guilty about eating meat because a lion eats meat every day yeah you know it's kind of part the fish and so on so forth I mean there are PE you know there yeah I mean so I don't feel guilty for eating animals and it's funny yeah like if the reason for being vegan is because of guilt of harm to animals that is a little bit almost like sounds a little hypocritical in a lot of ways it is unfortunately I mean it might be insects that are getting killed off and they might not be oh insect but it's still still an animal it's still a living creature when they do when they qu when they qualif or quantify that it's it's very vast what was like 87,000 things die like there was these studies that were floating around everything gets decimated everything like from the worms bugs bees bees are getting destroyed by almond milk like Al almonds in general decimating bee population they have commercial bees and every time they send them in a large percentage of them die because they pollinate the almonds but almond milk is like in demand all over the world and most of it comes from here so a lot of cattle can graze on land that we can't Farm on so it actually gives back but we're just focusing the wrong places and then the insects can live and then the soil can live and then thebi tow gives the poop to the the fertilizer to the soil and you know yeah I mean everyone's happy sorry yeah of you could do searches of land in the United States that that's missing these certain minerals like selenium there's so many parts of America when you look at the these different uh maps of just depleted soil where there's just no minerals left at all because we've overfarmed it and it's it's affecting the animals too because the animals are going to have less of those minerals and nutrients and then it's a chain chain reaction and a lot of that is because of the poor farming practices yeah I mean even even like the the vegetation that we have like I I something is like the the spinach the 1950s or you know broccoli whatever produce had like you know three times as many nutrients as as they do now you know it's just the soil being depleted and you know you do have this massive environmental destruction it's not just it's not just the bugs that are getting killed I mean those are being killed by in the trillions you know um but it there was something it was like in America it was like 8 was it or 6.7 7 billion animals die every year from from agricultural practices and there was um and that those are generally like you know rodents and birds and and snakes and things like that they get tilled up and crushed and and destroyed when you're you're tilling these lands and and you have to kill off the deer and the pigs and the kangaroo and all the different sorts of things that are coming in to eat your crop and uh you know they have like snipers taking out these these big animals that are trying to to eat their crops and so you know there was a study out of University of New South Wales here in Australia in 2011 that showed that um to get one pound of plant-based protein you have to kill 25 times as many sentient animals so not not insects sentient animals then you would for getting one pound of of uh animal-based protein and if you consider the bioavailability of animal-based protein is 100% And that of plants is much less than 100% depending on where you get it from um that and it comes with a lot of other things with it just that if you're getting a pound of bioavailable protein I think it's going to be a lot more animals that you're going to have to kill you know I mean think it you have to destroy an entire ecosystem so even if you're not killing more and more animals you've already destroyed an entire habitat so 55% of borneo's rainforests have been destroyed for palm seed oil crops and and the vegans would argue well but that's okay because it was replaced with trees so you know same same you know just yeah yeah you bulldoze all these trees you killed all the orangutans you killed all the snakes you killed all the birds you killed all the monkeys you killed all the animals that live there but you replace it with trees so same thing you know no it's not the same thing all those all those animals are dead now um and uh and that's not a habitat you know you there not eco eco diverse right there's no Eco diversity right yeah yeah and if those animals are coming in yeah there'll be birds and whatever but if like monkey come in or this come in and they mess with that crop those those animals get shot you know that's the reality you know because that is money and that that's people's that's that's people's livelihood and they're going to protect that and so they start messing with the crop those animals those animals are going to go down um you know I think that I think that like the vegans you know have the right motivations you know they they they're worried about the environment like you said you know are we a net positive or N Net negative you know in a lot of ways we're net negative um we're doing a lot of things that are damaging the world and I think a lot of those motivations from vegans are that like hey you know we we can't do this you know we need to be um you know we need to be responsible stewards of the world and and we're not doing that and so they're looking for ways to do that and they and they've just been fed this this line of garbage that you know going plant-based is going to do that it's going to help that it's completely wrong but that's you know a big motivation for them I know one guy who went vegan purely because of that he's like I like meat I think it's the most nutritious I agree with all of that but I can't I can't just ethically consciously do that because I think it's destroying the environment and so you know that's that's where a lot of people are coming from as well so I think the motivations like giving people of how to be a carnivore the right way yeah or the most sustainable right right yeah don't go to McDonald's don't don't go buy me from McDonald's yeah because we know they ain't growing the cows the right way right yeah find a buter find the local butcher make friends with the local Farm yeah right yeah exactly and you know so so people can be conscious about this and you know and people can can vote with their pocketbook you know and more and more people are going to the Rancher and going to the regenerative farms and because that and they're willing to pay more to do that people are going to start paying attention to that and I think more and more ranchers are starting to to notice that because they're getting gouged right now you know by the by the different you know meat processing companies you have to sell you you raise these cows you sell it for nothing and then they and and but the prices of meat are going up and up and up but ranchers are getting less and less and less right what the hell is that about right and so you know they if they can go directly to you the consumer that's going to be better for them and you and so you go you know you but you know it can be a larger upfront cost not everyone can do that not everyone has you know two chest freezers that they can stick a whole cow in you know and so you know it's not everyone can do this but if you can it ends up being much cheaper in the long run and better for the ranchers and more nutritious as well because you're getting better quality food and so this is what I try to do in in America I you can't do it here in Australia unfortunately but I would go to ranchers and I would buy direct from the ranchers and the ones that only did grass-fed grass finish and I would get older cows I'll get the cows that were 10 years old they were amazing they tasted amazing and uh and it was cheaper it was cheaper than even buying uh you know a young steer because normally there's no market for older cow which is stupid by the way this is this way better meat and um but people want younger meat because it's more tender well it's also less flavorful it's less nutritious but that's the market at the moment as it is and I think mostly because people just don't know they've never had the option so they've just never been able to make the choice me making the choice it's clear get the older cow and so because they they weren't able to like sell it for like normal Stakes they would have to just grind it up into hamburger and sell the hamburger they would get much much less and so this guy was able to give me a deal on it I think I got it for like two bucks a pound for like an entire cow and that was with butcher fees they hung it for 21 days butchered it up into steaks and hamburger and uh and I I just went went to the farm and picked it up two bucks a pound you know it was great and when you buy like that do they so do you get like every cut of the cow yeah so you're gonna like are there pieces of meats or steaks that you wouldn't maybe consider the most flavorful or the most ideal but you just get it because it's part of the package yeah so yeah you're not just getting steaks right you're getting a lot of steaks but you know you're you're also getting you know the Chuck and the brisket and the uh you know the different different uh like stew meats and things like that that would be more tough but actually those tougher cuts are are really flavorful but you just have to slow cook them you know you have to cook them a bit a bit differently and so you doing like in a roast or even doing like a sued I would only use a sid with um silicon bags though because I I wouldn't cook it in the Plastics um but if you if you do that you slow cook it whatever way you do it you smoke it whatever um it can uh it's just it's really really good has really good flavor and really good fat content and uh and then yeah you get a lot of hamburger you get a lot of hamburger a lot of the the cow turns into hamburger as well but you're getting you're getting ribs you're getting you know whatever steaks you want you know if you want T-Bones or if you want um New York's and Flame and yon you get all all those sorts of things uh any way you want it so you can you can ask you can tell them how you want it butchered up you know and so you can tell them and and you should tell them keep all the fat on there don't trim any fat off because like you want the fat we want the fat but they're just naturally just going to leave just a little thin strip because the aesthetically that's what we we were used to instead of leaving like the big chunk of fat so I I didn't tell them on this time this last time I did but that was like four years ago before I moved to Australia but anytime I'll get anything butchered from here on out I'm telling them don't trim off any if you trim off any fat I want it I want it in a bag and give it to me and uh and just give give me that whole cow bro every piece yeah yeah do not stinge on the fat and um but they but they just normally would do it you know they they they think that's oh just people don't want the fat they they'll throw the fat away they just want the lean meat no I want the fat you know I want trim up those RI eyes and cut the lip off it's like doing is that it's like a naked it's like a pluck chicken it's like no feathers it's no terrible to eat those RI eyes and that's what you find in most because people think that they're getting ripped off when they have the fat t or when the Fat's still on the riye they want lean RI eyes I mean that's just an oxymoron I mean riby aren't lean but yeah I I talked to uh someone here who who distributed like meat wholesale and someone bought like a whole riy loin right and uh and then they went back they came back and with like a bag of like with like five pounds of fat and they were like this had five pounds of fat on it I want five pounds of meat uses a rip off whatever it's just like you bought ribey what what were you expecting like if you didn't want fat why the hell did you go for the fattiest cut you know like what an idiot you know and um and I don't know why but they were just like you know they and this person I was say like I gave it to him I gave them you know five pounds of like meat just because it was just such a headache I didn't want to like deal with it I was like that's that's ridiculous that people are doing that and um you know and uh yeah I got some ribey here and it was like on the bones with like the big tomahawks but like I got it in bulk from Costco and um because normally it had like the best fat content didn't care about the bone or anything I just I wanted like the high fat content and so I bought a a big box of them right so it's it was like it was like $800 for this whole thing for like you know 30 of these or no sorry 18 of these things big bastards and I got it home open up the box and like they they trimmed it off they trimmed off the cap and the tail it was just like that middle sirloin part it was like a meat popsicle it was just like what the hell is this and uh you know I was like talking to I was just like hey this is this is bull like you know this is this isn't a damn riye and and the guy was like trying to give me stick because it's like you know it's Australia and they don't you know I mean I know Costco's return policy it's like 100% no questions asked like you're not satisfied with it it goes back you know and like like I'm well aware of that and this guy was American too and he's trying to me and uh and say like well but there's nothing wrong with the meat there's nothing wrong with me I mean the meat itself is fine and I was just like yeah there's nothing you know so there's nothing wrong with the meat so you can't return it I was like look there's nothing wrong with hamburger either but that's not what I paid for you know I didn't I'm not paying you know $35 a pound for for for sirloin you know I bought ribeye one of the fat I one the C you take the cap off of a ribeye it's not a damn ribeye like that's ridiculous and so best part that is the best part and so you know they just stripped this thing uh just absolutely ridiculous end ended up you know calling him out because like he he wouldn't let me take it back but then like emailed him and I emailed like like corate and I was just like hey you know I'm from Kirkland Washington where you guys are from like I've been going there since Costco opened my family's been there since Costco opened like I'm damn I'm I'm absolutely well aware of your return policy and I'm I'm quite upset with this like this should have gone back instantly he just oh yeah come back right away I'll take care of you yeah I bet you will you know and so ended up like returning it but like I was pissed man and it's just like like why would you do that like why would you trim a ribeye like that well but people don't like the fat well then they can buy a different cut you know exactly you like what just stop ruining this stuff because people are idiots and they don't realize you don't have to buy a fatty cut for twice the price if you don't want a fatty cut buy the lean cut it's cheaper anyway you know so it's yeah it makes no sense to me well I'm happy he took it back because imagine if he didn't back I mean you would have ripped him a a new one man I was yeah it was it was a bit annoying but um well cool guys well I think we've been going for about three hours now so um I I don't want to take up most of your night you guys are you guys are probably getting late there so thank you so much for for your time guys it was great to meet you and and talk to you face to face that was absolutely an absolute pleasure I hopefully have you guys on again sometime and you know maybe do like like a live sort of thing that we were talking about and uh and hear more about uh like your trainings and what you guys are doing uh uh you know currently as as well if you guys are up for it definitely be awesome man thank you Dr chaffy we really appreciate your time and knowledge and and insight on the diet and we will continue watching your videos and and sharing them as well this is awesome yeah man it was amazing you know a lot of knowledge I I I love the energy I love just the information just so much to soak in and yeah man let's continue absolutely well cool all right guys well thanks very much for coming on thanks everyone for for watching if you you gotten this far I appreciate it um where where can people find your stuff and follow you guys and see uh see more of your stuff Instagram SF ninja yeah Instagram uh Howen Gracie RH L an Gracie I'm also head instructor here at Ralph Gracie San Francisco so if you're ever in San Francisco want to get a little Jiu-Jitsu in feel free to stop by awesome Academy beautiful Matt space personal trainer right here if you want to work on your muscles go to this guy you want your Technique refined come to me and I heard you used to do a little MMA yourself so when you're in town come stay with us training so welcome to San Francisco anytime and let me tell you we make a really good RI by bro wor bet close to the airport so anytime you're here in San Francisco call us up man we'll come get you that'd be awesome man I absolutely will and take you up on that so cool all right guys well thank you so much and uh yeah we'll hope to do this again soon all right Dr all right take care y'all brother have a good one hey guys thank you very much for taking the time out to listen to what I had to say if you like it then please like And subscribe to my YouTube channel and podcast and if you're on YouTube then please hit that little bell and subscribe and that'll let you know anytime I have a new video out which should be every week if not more and if you could share this with your friends that would help me get the word out and let me know that you like what I'm doing thanks again guys [Music]