KetoCon Carnivore Panel with Dr Anthony Chaffee, Dr Shawn Baker, Nutrition with Judy, and more!

welcome to the plant-free md podcast with dr anthony chafee where we discuss diet and nutrition and how this affects health and chronic disease and show you how you can use this to optimize your health and happiness both mentally and physically hey guys just want to take a second to thank our sponsor at carnivore bar i don't promote many products because honestly all you need to be healthy is to just eat meat for those times that you're out hiking road tripping or stuck at work and you want nutritious snack that is just meat fat and salt if you want it the carnivore bar is a great option so i like this product not because it's just pure meat but also because i want the carnivore market to thrive as well and the more we support meat only products the more meat only products that will be available in the mainstream so if this sounds like something you'd like to get behind check it out using my discount code anthony to get 10 off which also applies to subscriptions giving you 25 off total all right thanks guys [Music] my name is kevin stock and i'm excited to be on this carnivore panel quite honored actually because i've had the great pleasure getting to know these superstars over the years and so we are going to we'll do brief intros if you don't know who they are yet and then after that we'll just dive right into q a feel free to ask general questions or you can pick out someone you want like if you want to pick on dr baker just go call them out uh so yeah that's how we'll run this questions i think we line up right here in the middle and then we'll go from there so anyways again my name is kevin stock i'm a dentist i have been endlessly obsessed with nutrition for my entire life and i'm fascinated by the mouth and how it gives us so many clues about what we are designed to eat and when we eat a diet if and when that's incongruent with this design how we can see that in the model and so i've been collecting these clues for many years and i don't know if i just want to give away the punchline but i think these clues when i add them up they spell out carnivore diet or at least very heavy meat-based diet so anthony we're going to take up introductions and then we'll just okay uh i'm dr anthony i as some of you may know me just from through my podcast and youtube channel i've been in interested in diet nutrition how that affects health and chronic disease for a number of years going back about 20 years since my undergraduate degree and i've noticed that personally and professionally that today making small dietary changes uh what may be major dietary change for some people but um simple in any way uh can can cause huge huge huge benefits to people's health and lives and that's something that i feel very passionate about so that's why i speak about that my name is laura spath and i am not a doctor i have no certifications i have no qualifications i have written notebooks i work a full-time corporate job and i'm a mom and i my weight was out of control and i lost 120 pounds in 10 months with a carnivore diet and fasting um and i thought okay great cool done did it and i realized it wasn't that easy and then maybe i had deeper issues with food and so for the last four years i have been kind of figuring out how to not gain it all back again and to just be on a carnivore diet has been what's given me the most freedom and the ability to stay healthy be active with my kids and not have this obsessiveness about food constantly every day so and hi i'm ada otherwise known as black carnivore and i also have no certifications and no professional qualifications but i had such a great experience on the carnivore diet and i knew that i wanted to share this with other people and particularly in the black community we struggle with metabolic diseases like hypertension and diabetes so i knew that this way of eating was especially important for my community and with the rise of veganism and raw veganism as a you know a health modality in the black community i knew that we needed to have a voice that was uh speaking up for the benefits of a meat-based diet so i decided to start my platform and just you know try to share the voices of lots of all kinds of black people who are having success eating this way so that uh you know that testimony will be what will help other people to uh to decide to give this a try the studies are great but you know not everybody is convinced or interested in the studies but when you see your aunt have a fantastic experience that can get you going so that's what i aim to do and you can find me on youtube or instagram black carterboard hey guys my name is judy cho and i'm known as nutrition with judy i'm also known as the people's nutritionist i am board certified in holistic nutrition and i am the author of corn over cure i have a private practice and we focus on a root cause healing with a meat only elimination diet and we believe in wellness for all uh i'm sean baker and i'm just going to like do what you need [Laughter] [Applause] all right and we can start taking questions hello my name is autumn if you guys don't know so my question is should i make it a point to integrate oregon meat into my diet if i don't necessarily like it so i used to be a really big fan of organ needs obviously if you look into nutrient density it's there's no argument about the amounts of nutrients in oregon meats i think that we can overdo it i think there's a tendency where if something is good we want more and if there's something bad we try to stop it but there's nuance to it as i've done research and i've worked with a lot of me and only carnivores i've seen people have signs of vitamin a and toxicity and as well as you can consume too much uh liver which then has a lot of purity which then can break down to uric acid if you're adding foods there's risk of gout so i am of the proponent now where i think you should limit your liver if any and if you don't really need it and you don't really enjoy it i don't think you need to spend that extra money on organ supplements i actually recommend my clients to stop all of them and to see if that'll improve because i promise you that most of my clients that start working with me that need only carnivore is not working they're all taking some type of organ supplement because they don't like it but they're told if they're not feeling better you've got to add in the organs but that may actually be why they're not feeling as good so i think it's very bio-individual it really depends on the person if you're anorexic you've been under-eating or some other medical condition you may want some liver but of course eat it in accordance to the animal size which then you're probably not eating it every day but when i see people eating six ounces of liver every day it's it's personal i think it's a cause of concern uh you know your question was do i need to eat if you don't like it i'd say probably not um you know i've been collecting data i've been paying 12 000 people who've done a carnivore diet and really the outcomes were no different than those that hate and those that didn't as far as disease reversal harvard university studied looked at this and two thousand people and if you read the body of the text and ask them actually asked to include this in the study and they had the same conclusions they made no difference but no higher incidence of nutrient deficiencies no higher incidence of complications whether you choose to eat organics or vitamins or not and so um if you like a medium i don't think there's any problem i i will admit there are people that will say they feel better when they eat this or that and that's fine but to be under the impression that you must include it to be complete or optimal or thrive the data just doesn't support that and so like i said i'm not against eating yet i don't personally i don't like them so i'm not gonna eat stuff i don't like i don't think i don't think a diet that sustainable includes foods you don't like to eat now of course the counter that is why not just eat cake and ice cream all day but again that's that's not really a realistic so the answer for me is yeah just say you know i would agree with all that and you if you look at your native populations like you would they traditionally don't eat the organs at all they will feed those to their dogs you look at the lowest lewis and clark expedition across the us same thing they would eat the fatty meat and they would feed the leaner meat and organize to their dogs and in fact they found the people that didn't get enough fat those are those that were dying from these expeditions so um it's not something that i don't know that you need um and then just like judy said you know you can eat it out of proportion as well you know if we're hunting and we take down an animal you know how many hundreds of pounds of skeletal muscle fat or is there going to be every one pound of liver okay it's literally going to be hundreds to one and so if you're eating you know outside of that proportion and you're eating you know half of your or even a quarter or ten of your calories or from your liver every day that that's out of proportion and liver is very nutrient dense and but you know there is a problem it can be too much so vitamin toxicity is just as dangerous as monument deficiencies and so it's just something to be mindful of and i would certainly agree if you don't enjoy it that's probably a good sign that your body is telling you like how actually you don't probably need this you know things generally taste better i've found if your body wants them and so if you're deprived of the nutrient liver might taste amazing and if you're eating a mixed diet you certainly do need a different constellation of nutrients that you might your your nutrition requirement will be higher for certain things and solar is probably your best friend but if you're just eating meat and you're not eating the other things you get everything you need from that meat and it could be in excess well this is very exciting news thank you so much thank you for the question hi um i'm almost three years apart more and even though i started it for weight loss i continue it because it makes me feel amazing i don't have any pains i uh my skin conditions cleared up and i'm moving so my question is for the whole panel since we are in such a profit loving society and carnivore doesn't necessarily give a lot of profits do you have any ideas of how to make it out more mainstream you know so that it can help people but you know the powers that be that love their profits can't really make money off of it great question all right anthony's going to climb in yeah sorry you know everything everything has to do with markets right so you know if you if you have a market driver for something like if there's a higher demand for me people will try to meet that demand in order to make a profit and so that's what we need to do we just need to keep promoting and keep buying and keep pushing it and the more of a demand there is for me the more that will be supplied and because people will be able to make money off of it and that's true and if you don't buy into you know the whole process the nonsensical garbage they're putting out here and there's not a market for that they will start losing money and that will go away and so that that's just a natural progression of a free market the problem comes with you have government intervention you know forcing markets and picking winners and losers that's the difficulty and that's something that you know it needs to be addressed in other in other means you know but as far as markets are concerned just keeping that demand up is the best way and then not giving them a demand for the process of garbage i'm sure i know can people can talk to the bigger picture but you have an amazing story share that story with people in your community it's a ripple effect i know without social media my husband and i were living this lifestyle and my mom saw the results and then she changed and then her brothers saw those results and they changed and then their co-workers saw those results and they changed and there's this thousands of people that all changed just because my mom made this decision without all of the social media videos you have impacted i with your story i'm sure more people than you even realize and i think then you know like dr chafee said being able to then shop purchase you know buy those products that you're supporting i think we make an impact just simply by impacting those around us and then trying to help that spread yeah and it's dr eddie our eddie said there is no shortage of sick people but not everyone wants a research study a lot of times those testimonials like like you're saying those goes far further than any kind of a harvard study that we might get so you want to add on to that yeah absolutely i mean i think just telling your story is incredibly powerful and you really don't know how many people are watching you and there'll be lots of people who in the beginning they see you lose 10 15 pounds and they're like ah she's crazy but you know once they see you like having lots of energy being up all day being able to do all of this stuff having mental stuff uh you know their their people are watching you and eventually they will start to ask you uh questions but i also wanted to speak to the other point um about you know i mean i do i am concerned about you know our access to me i am concerned about the fact that you know we're eating a whole foods diet there's not really a lot of stuff to monetize and so um you know there's i think that that can be a problem but one of the things that you know you can do and we can do we can all do is when you go to your supermarket like they want to provide the products that people want to buy so you got to just say to your you know supermarket manager i want more fatty meat can you bring more of that in and the more they hear it they actually will provide it so that's another way that we can have impact and make sure that we have um that stores and and um you know these uh you know industries understand that there is a demand for you know for good quality meat okay dr baker yeah i think on the speaker's part about profit and so we think about who's profiting right now well junk food companies pharmaceutical companies are profiting on our illness and you know that there's that's number zero and so what you can do is where's that money coming from what's coming from as consumers but in many cases you know companies are spending a lot of money on employee health care and they're spending a lot of money in law school they're losing a lot of money on lost productivity and so if you restore health to people that money that would otherwise be spent on illness can now be put into productivity settlement so it is valuable there is inherent value in good nutrition and health it's just taking the money away from the pharmaceutical companies and the people that are feeding us junk food and moving that that that money either either less losses or greater productivity there so there is i think there is inherent profitability in in eating well it's just moving from where it is now to another another pool anything that you yeah i don't think we'll ever see big pharma big food say we found that meat actually heals so therefore let's start endorsing that it really is going to be voting with your dollars and just being a like a grassroots movement as everyone said share your story show your family your loved ones that you look at how i'm healing if you're desperate enough i just planted a seed have them eat the meat and then it just boats with the dollars and just like how keto has become very um i don't know processed over the years but there's all these big companies now following keto i hope that one day that more and more people will get into regenerative agriculture and other types of needs but it starts with us it starts with every single one of us sharing our stories sharing our healing that meat actually heals and it's not something that causes heart disease thanks judy thank you for the question hello thank you so much for all of everything you guys do i appreciate all of you my question is with dr stock though i have a son who they're saying they want to remember this wisdom teeth of course i did it too but i'm questioning now and then also the removal of root canals so wisdom teeth removals and root canals okay so there's there's a lot of nuance here but i guess we'll start with the big picture and i'll go fast here uh our our wisdom teeth should fit in our mouths we're the only primates animals basically where all our teeth aren't fitting in our mouths and they should and what points to be the reason is this a few things one is chewing on mush early on in life the jaw needs the stimulation to get the full growth out of the jaw to make room for those wisdom teeth uh and then secondly is i believe there's a strong component of nutrient deficiency that goes into the lack of development of craniofacial bones so i do think early childhood nutrition as well as prenatal nutrition and from from the parents perspective is crucially important in optimizing basically early childhood growth so i guess not to answer the question is sometimes there's nothing you can do at this point the wisdom teeth do need to come out sometimes they can you can leave them in there they can stay in the bone be no problem sometimes they need to come out sometimes a lot of times they're coming in impacted which can lead to decay and other problems so it's it's one of those things on a case-by-case basis that an oral surgeon can have to look at like like a lot of the health profession like they make their money to get those teeth out so a hammer everything looks like a nail we should take that out so there's a component that uh and then the second question is actually you know quite controversial is the roof paths and there's a lot of concern with root canals and i like to give both sides of the picture and one is if you don't let's assume you need the root canal if you don't get it what's your alternative are you going to leave a hole in there or you're going to do an implant which has its own risk you can do a bridge or you can do a partial like there's these other options that also are not ideal to have their cost benefit ratios so a lot of times people be like hey i had this root canal it's totally fine should i get it taken out and i'm like it's totally fine it's not causing you pain there's no nothing wrong with the x-ray i'm pretty conservative where i would leave it in there some people are like let's get that out uh but there's one of the issues with the root canals maybe to answer the question is there's accessory canals and when they do the root canal they don't when all the accessory canals are leaving basically a dead tooth in there that could potentially breed bacteria and infection and pain but i guess to sum this up the long story is these are two kind of like case-by-case things that you know the ideal situation is have great prenatal nutrition great childhood nutrition don't need to get those wisdom pieces taken out because they fit in the mouth and don't need a root canal because you didn't eat the sugar the processed carbs that led to the decay that led to the root canal so that's like the ideal situation now the problem's already there then there are these like there is nuance though to take on a case-by-case basis so i hope that answers the question okay yeah great thank you what's up fam um my name is courtney my husband has been eating a carnivore for about two and a half years and he is a rotational shift worker i wanted to get your opinion on like an eating schedule an ideal eating schedule to best support his hormonal health so love to hear your thoughts that's a great question so sleep hormonal health dr ricky wants to start with this and then we can pass it around well rotational shift works so he works some nights some days he switches all the time so yeah i mean obviously that's not a good situation so the you know obviously the answer would be you can get away from that do it now obviously that's not practical in all cases but assuming he can't do that um you know i think what we eat is important and i think there's there's a lot of um benefit to circadian biology and i and personally i like to eat during the day light i don't like to eat late at night it just kind of is less optimal for me and so uh given that um is a is a fact you know what can you do to support that you know if if he's i mean he's either gonna be sleeping or awake or working so one of the others and so you might have to say let's try to eat at the same time of the day you know uh let's say you get eight hours of sleep and i don't know when that's gonna be maybe gets home at six a.m and sleeps till you know two o'clock in the afternoon or something like that so i mean it might be uh try to have an eating pattern through the daylight hours the best you can uh again it depends how often he's you know is he doing nights one week out of the month or is it three weeks in a row or things like that so it's if it's flipping back and forth very much you know i think ideally if you could you know one of the nice things about a carnivore diet and not everybody needs to hear the sign or is it best for everybody you can you can get away with eating fairly infrequently because we have such a profound satiety and this is a long-term ability to go without food with carbon dioxide protein fat heavy diets so you do have the advantage you can eat relatively infrequently and so you can probably make that window uh work for around the ground for around the ship now if he's going for a month straight at nights then he might need a different eating time to support his activity so he might have to eat it ten o'clock at night or something like that so i mean i as best i can say it's trying to be as consistent as possible uh you know if you get away from the night shifts that's great i don't think there's an easy solution i still think what you're eating is is the most important thing you know all these other factors how much you eat how frequently you eat when you eat our secondary considerations so as long as he's eating you know healthy food that's going to be helpful but it's like i said as much as possible try to try to keep it at the same time even if his sleep schedule changes because that's it's unfortunate situation you know we're not designed as human beings to be working at night i don't think i mean that's just not not who we are as a species of portion we're not we're not owls you know we're not nocturnal creatures so i don't know if there's a really good answer on that uh yeah it's pretty difficult i mean all the data shows the new people that work shift for especially rotational shift work you know they they have health ramifications and uh increased permanent disease i mean this is exactly we're talking about it just screws with this and still currently working you know shift work or just all the time work is that uh i find that i try to sort of keep a pattern on how i eat in relation to when i sleep when i work i feel better you know everyone's different but for me i feel better eating you know at the end of the day if i eat you know before i go into work i feel a bit more lethargic during the day um especially if i fill up so what i like to do is i like to eat after i finish work and that just makes me feel better but it might be different for obviously dr baker and your husband um but i try to keep it like that so if i'm working at night i'll work at night and then i'll eat and then i'll you know after i finish up then i'll go to sleep and then sort of repeat that and then when i'm on you know different days or whatever i'll try to keep that pattern in relation to my sleep but you know like dr baker said you know that that's the beauty of the carnivore diet is that you really don't have to eat that that often you don't have to eat you know three four times a day like we normally would i just want something good for 24 hours and it makes it very easy to work horrible hours because which is probably maybe that just sort of enabling this lifestyle but you know it's uh it does make that a lot easier and for me i found that just keeping my eating in in a relationship to what i'm working and i was sleeping it seems to work for me but you know it's going to be individual you know just see what he thinks see how he feels and what's best you could just tinker with things you could try just eating at the same time every day without fail you can try and do it in relation to your sleep pattern or whatever but you know the beauty is that you're eating the right food and you don't need to eat as often you have a lot more leeway uh as you would in in other other situations thank you oh you're good so i guess one recommendation i'd have is focus on the times that he is having the more normal works schedule so during those times make sure he tries to follow that circadian rhythm get the light in the eyes in the morning and do all the things and so use the other lover since you're already doing you know only carnivore or carnivore then focus on reducing stress doing some exercise and all of the other benefits that then can hopefully balance out that he's working at the night and try to eat as clean as possible on those times thanks courtney and this question is for dr chaffee i heard your presentation i think it was yesterday and i'm not sure if i misunderstood or misheard i thought you said that when you get hamburger meat at the grocery store you have them they said so that it's 50 50. fat and protein i didn't know if i misheard that uh yeah yeah no i did say that so i do like um to get more you know fattier ground beef when i get that you know especially in australia i mean they've really really gone after the lean side of things i mean it's almost hard to get ground beef that's it's less than 90 percent lean and i would just taste the corn you know and so uh when i when i go which would get ground beef yeah i would just ask them to do it like 50 50 60 40 70 30 whatever whatever you prefer i like i like good fidgeting it just tastes really good i thought i was being really extreme by asking when school co-op to change their means from 80 20 to 70 30 is roughly 70 calories for fat and so it's a good it's a good ratio uh i for me you know i like that ratio and so that's why i asked for that and then quite a lot quite often you know butchers won't charge for fat because they have these fat scraps that they trim off because you know people don't want it you know the market is they want they want me and so you know quite often people go in and say hey do you have fat scraps or trimmings or anything like that and i'll just give it to them for free my butcher doesn't do that unfortunately but that that would do that so yeah that's um so the question yesterday was you know how do we get you know sort of more fat content and that was that was one of my suggestions because you could do that yeah you didn't ask me but um if i was to eat a 50 50 ground beef rendered fat like all of that liquid fat i would poop my pants like it's not gonna go well so i have to work on getting fat in other ways so no matter the ground beef that i get i would personally drain the fat and not drink it or eat it because it wouldn't digest well for me i would then maybe add butter or i stick with steaks like chocolate steaks or something else that's fatty or even like fat scraps that i could crisp up like he mentioned would be better for me than just the liquid fat in the ground beef for instance just real quick the thing is too is that yeah if you cook that ground beef like well done like i said you just you drain out all of that so i when i do that i have to keep it very like medium rare to like rare you know and so it it does still keep most of the body of that it's a friend so that's a good point thank you for the question i i was going to say i must have developed a cast iron stomach because i used to not be able to handle render fat but now i can drink it just fine so so you may get to the point where that works but i always find too that you really have to you know not handle ground beef because when you compress it there's no more pockets for the fat to render into and stay inside the burger or the meatball so you know i've really kind of perfected how you handle ground beef but i am excited to try this 5050 because i have never done that and even moving south seeing the 70 30 is like brand new to me so you know look out for some more you know content from me on instagram on what to do with this fatty burger oh yeah pork belly for sure um uh i actually came from a background of um on i'm a tracker like i'm and i have an analytical background and i did keto for two or three years and i would sit and track everything on my fitness path and i kind of reached a wall and decided to dabble in carnivore a little bit and i was sort of wondering how i guess i had trouble sort of managing it making sure that i had enough that i ate enough because of course carnivore is very satiating i i felt like i wasn't even getting enough calories in um i i guess i was mixing philosophies up because i was afraid that my metab my metabolism would slow down and i don't know should i just throw the calculator away and then just just eat because otherwise i wouldn't eat for days like because i have like one i also have a small stomach and i wouldn't really have hunger cues either so i could like i could easily fast for two or three days not eating all right well just to clarify that question a little bit are you shooting for any kind of goals or anything are you feeling bad are you just you feel good well no i like i feel great and i guess i'm i'm trying to get um i want to change body composition right so i wanted to gain more muscle mass of course i'd be lifting as well in addition to that but that's the thing i wouldn't feel hungry and i didn't like it's the i tried to do omad and then i realized that i was only getting like 800 calories in a day um i try to fast for a couple of days so i i was sort of getting confused sure i think a lot of it starts with like what your goal is yeah because if your goal is like i want to put on some mass and size and you know put on some muscle basically you know fasting for three straight days is not a great strategy well no i just waited until i got hungry right but i wouldn't get it right so i do think like tailoring the diet to your goals is one thing to consider but we'll get some other opinions here a lot of times it's like you know throw the calculator away and listen to your body those kind of things is where a lot of people should start but champion start with us um yeah so i i don't think you need to track calories and things like that if you're eating naturally you can actually listen to your body's signals you know the thing i've said is you know if you need a calculator to figure out what to eat you're probably eating the wrong thing you know you bite your nature is natural it just happens you know one of the things with with your hunger signals when you go carnivores they're radically different you know i spoke about this about you know the leptin insulin uh you know combatants um that changes when you when you're eating carbohydrates versus when you're eating carnivores so when we're eating carbohydrates we really we get these signals that are we're actually starving to death you have to eat then you stop eating that you start eating naturally and that goes away and now you have to actually relearn your hunger signals you'll never feel hungry in the same way that you did before and so you know what i try to tell people is you can buy taste you know if meat tastes good it's good for you know if the steak doesn't taste good it means you're not hungry but if it does taste good you are and you have patients that you have a great deal of weight to lose and you know put them on a cardboard diet and after a couple weeks to come back okay how's it going they said i hate it i hate this diet i hate me and i hate doing this you know i just i have to force myself to eat all this and i ask him okay do you hate eating it you know all the time like even right when you begin the meal and then kind of like the you know at first it tastes really good but then halfway through the meal and it just is horrible and i have to force my way through it's like okay well that means you're not hungry that's your body telling you that especially when you have extra adipose tissue to lose extra fat to lose and your body is going to be prioritizing that to use as well so you're going to be using that in conjunction with the food you're taking in so you don't actually need uh you know to take in the amount of calories you're going to use that day you know if you have excess fat to lose and so that just you know might be that so i would go by taste you know try eating more than once a day and if it tastes good then just keep eating until it stops tasting good and don't worry about the calculator sure i think the eat when you're hungry stop when you're full is a great place to start but that doesn't work for me i'm broken i can eat i don't have i can eat all day long i don't have to be hungry i don't need any reason to eat i can just eat and um i will gain weight if i try to listen to my instincts like my brain tells me like there's food you should eat it or like we could go find food so i personally have to be very regimented about eating during my meal time as much as i need to in that meal time and then like i have to be regimented about how often i eat because i don't want to worry about calories tracking that type of thing and all that being said i think the number one problem for most women on carnivore is that they are under eating and i think it's important to track like eat naturally what sounds good to you what feels good to you what you should be tracking to say like hey it's been a week and i've only been eating 800 calories like that's going to cause you more harm than good over time even though that's what like we might have to work on fixing that natural like feeling because for me it's broken and it's never going to be okay so i have to make sure that i'm regulating that and maybe it's you know having a couple egg yolks and one white instead of three eggs and that's going to give you more calories with less like volume in that and like kind of adjusting things like your fat protein ratio where i can't live on ground beef because i would get full and then it's not enough calorie i would under eat which then would stall my weight because i'm under eating and so i don't do ground beef i stay away from chicken like i have to get more bang for my buck in my calories to make sure that i'm eating enough and while tracking every day would make me crazy there are times where if my weight's stalled if my energy is low i'll just say okay what did i eat today what are they yesterday like oh well i've had 1100 calories no wonder i'm not sleeping well and i have to kind of readjust them going forward i like checking in just to make adjustments based on where my current health and goals are and i think that the the um the active tracking and all of the uh attempts to like fit into the formulas the instructions that we've been getting you know have really disconnected us from our own bodies um you know we you do really have to relearn what um the way your body speaks to you and the language of your body and sometimes that means you've got to put down the track or you've got to put down you know the myfitnesspal or whatever it is so that you can actually just listen to your body and so you know for some people that may mean eating more for some people it may mean eating less and that's you know that's the art of this way of eating uh and it may take you know years for you to kind of um you know learn yourself uh you know to a tea and you know from what i've seen from you laura is you know this is like an ongoing practice this isn't you figure out your thing and then you're done you know this is ongoing and for the rest of your life you're going to be sort of figuring it out but this should be pleasurable you know it shouldn't be um anxiety producing so um you know whatever you can do to make it more enjoyable is you know that's important so uh though typically when i work with meet only clients uh they are under eating and so i actually make them track but only for a week or two just just to get a sense of how how much they should ideally be eating and then from there obviously go with your hunger cues the problem is that we've been eating the standard american diet for so long that once we start eating a ketogenic version of a diet we do feel satiated and then when we start listening to oh i needed to stop eating when i feel full well we feel satiated all the time we don't get angry anymore and then the problem ends up becoming that especially for a lot of women for the first time we're never hungry and so we just stop kind of eating and we eat small amounts and we still eat maybe a tablespoon more of meat in per meal but that's really it but what ends up happening is it catches up to us three months in people start having hormone issues thyroid issues their energy decline sure they may have lost some weight but then they're complaining that this diet is making them lose their hair and their hormones and their skin etc but it's because they've been under eating and so i highly recommend that maybe just one week just get an idea of what should a plate of meat look like and then from there absolutely go by your hunger cues eat the meat you enjoy but if you never track you'll never know if you were eating sufficiently and i would say that a lot of my clients do eat 800 calories and i have to really push them to eat like double that and at first they're really scared because they don't make them gain weight but if we're doing this for long-term healing we have to kind of suck it up for just a little bit so that we can optimize this way of eating yeah when you go from a diet that includes a significant amount of carbohydrates through carbohydrate we know that carbohydrates kind of blood some of satiety hormones the effects of cck uh peptidy and others so you don't have that blooding effect and so now you you have a more profound satiety interestingly there's studies issue that women don't respond to cc kids unless men do which may explain some difference where women just turn a little more and do lose weight but honestly for a period of time you have to figure out like i i often eat when i'm not hungry just because i need a lot to to live and just to live in a relatively large body and so i'll often find myself i'm not really hooked but i know i need to eat because i've been doing this for so long and so you get to a point where you're like you know you can kind of you can whatever your goal may be i need more muscle i need less body fat i need more weight in general less weight in general so you know you're you're hungry hungers you're profoundly satiated in many cases and then you have to figure out some people talking about well maybe fatigue maybe mood are signals that i need to eat more so you just have to sort of you know we're so used to that gut wrenching i'm starving i'm going to eat the next person that walks in front of me type of thing but you don't get that anymore carnivores so a lot of times i just have to say you know and the other thing you know you mentioned i think it's a great thing for anybody in the audience we should all be you know focusing not just on weight loss but if we you know that's our goal but i mean i think getting a stronger people just stronger in general is going to have so many benefits and so i know for instance when i'm training extremely hard and like really pushing my body i'm starving i mean i mean i'm literally now i'm hungry again so it may just be you know what are your goals and say let's let's ramp up that aspect of the things and your hunger will follow that but yeah at the beginning it can be very confusing because you just you're literally not hungry like judy and others are saying when you don't take enough calories bad things happen and you know our metabolic rate will drop when we get smaller i mean it's bigger people have bigger metabolic rates and smaller people with smaller men black rates and so um you know that's that's something that's going to happen you know like in my it really doesn't matter at a posse versus not it's still it's still a higher metabolic rate but you know just maybe not tracking but like if i'm not getting the results i need i don't have to weigh i don't necessarily wave horses out but i know i know fighting one ribeye versus two i know that's the direction i need to go so it's it doesn't have to be exact and you can most of the time it becomes very intuitive and i like tell people you know my dog doesn't need an app to to know when and how much speed or you know there's any animal out there and so we really shouldn't either thank you for the question thanks so much hi um i have two questions one is for the dentist doctor um how do you take care of your mouth i have concern regarding mouthwash and i don't want to kill off my mouth bacteria the good stuff because i know that's where real good digestion starts um that's the first question the second one is for the whole panel with regards to the cost of being a carnivore i go to the grocery store and i can afford to buy food but when i look at the price of grass-fed beef or i go to a rancher and i say how much you charge for a bottle of grass-fed beef it's shopping and now cost of food is going up so i don't know where that's going but anyway so that's my part all right thank you yeah well i don't want to lose my dental license but i'll just give you the phone lower down when i do so i brush my teeth in the morning just with water all right that's i just lost my license there so i don't have to use toothpaste in the morning but i do it in the evening but not for reasons most people would expect just so right now i actually do drink coffee so that's not carnivore but so for just vanity reasons i use toothpaste to brush off any stains at the end of the day but if you're basically eating a cardboard diet you know brushing off the plaque in the morning and for breath like that's fine but i mean your your risk of decay is very small so regarding the mouthwash was kind of the second part of the first part of the question uh i don't use mouthwash i agree with you we don't want to sterilize our mouth we have an important oral microbiome uh and just you know using mouthwash especially alcohol-based mouthwashes i don't recommend that now it comes down to you know do i want fresh breath things like that so that's another issue but with regard to oral health uh i don't particularly recommend any mouthwashes someone has a particular issue going in and out uh so if someone has like paradigm disease sometimes called for particular mouthwashes like chloroxydene but those are kind of you know outside circumstances and then regarding the cost i'll pass those these guys i know anthony alluded to a very cheap way to uh add a lot of calories for meat bases from butcher trimmings but uh we can talk about that uh yeah yeah just just one thing you know focus on there you're talking about grass-fed of course that is quite expensive it's gonna be more expensive um you know i i don't eat grass-fed beef all the time i i just go to costco and i get i get i buy involved and i get cheap you can go to get go to a uh you know rancher if you buy direct from a rancher it's gonna be a lot cheaper than even if you go to a butcher um but you know i i definitely feel the best on grass-fed beef uh you know i bought a ten-year-old cow which is amazing people know that like older cows taste better and they're cheaper and so you know i got a whole grass-fed cow that was 10 years old amazing and you know i felt just charged when i ate this stuff however i feel amazing still on you know grain finished beef as well you know sort of the way i think about it is sort of similar to uh you know that dr baker said years ago was that you know you think that like in the olympics right so like a gold medalist you know won everything silver medal lost to gold the silver metal still beat everyone else on earth okay so that's how i think of you know grain finished beef so green finish pizza is fine all right so you don't have to just you know break the bank just going for a grass-fed beef if it's difficult to come by there are also obviously other cuts you can just you're getting trimmed from butcher uh your ground beef is going to be much less expensive than rib eye everywhere for saying it's like doubled in price in the last year but like for some reason new york's have it you know where i am you know they're not they're not as as expensive brisket is a very cheap option as well so there are a lot of there are a lot of cheaper options and uh you know chuck is is a great example of that you know chuck can be a very very flavorful fatty cut it's you know third the price of steak so there are certainly options and i wouldn't uh i wouldn't you know go out thinking that if you're going to eat meat you have to eat just grass and fed beef because you don't the other the other point to make is that you know how much does a pound of steak cost versus a pound of spinach like the spinach is actually more expensive and has no nutrients and has a lot of toxins so you know either way you're getting a lot more bang for your buck now you may be it may look like it's more expensive up front but you're eating less you're not going to the doctor you're not on medications and you're living longer and i think in the long run that's going to be worth a lot more my husband is a stay-at-home dad and i work a normal corporate job and we are on a very like we are budget-conscious for sure um i don't eat grass-fed meat because of the flavor but also the cost uh i can afford to you know i stock up when i can but we get the grocery ads at the mail on tuesday and the sales start on wednesday and we kind of plan our meals around what's on sale that week um we used to just buy the beef that was on sale but with the last year the price is going up i incorporate a lot more pork into my diet i'm eating pork multiple times a week now because it's a lot more affordable i can still get the fat content in that i need and i'm able to balance out some of that beef prices things like chicken thighs those are things we incorporate but i think when we compare the cost of beef we're looking at the cost of a steak versus the cost of spaghetti and thinking that this is going to cost us so much more to be honest i probably used to spend more money on ice cream than i do on steak like in my previous life and fast food and then chick-fil-a for breakfast literally every single day and the twenty dollars i used to get from the gas station snacks pretty much every day and then my kind of ice cream at night like we are comparing meal to meal and it is more expensive and you're getting more nutrition in that meal but when i look at my grocery budget week over week i'm eating now two meals a day versus eating six times a day and all of the snacks like a bag of chips is more expensive than a steak but i'm also just not i cut out all the snacks um the things in my grocery budget that are expensive are the more specialty keto items that i get for my kids and or you know the grain free crackers and and those types of things but just looking at week over week try to look at week over week versus meal over meal and i think you'll realize how much more it really does even out i spend much less money on food cutting out alcohol sweets sugar and all of the extra things think about where's your money going drinks people spend a lot of money on stuff that they're drinking and even sparkling waters and those types of things really add up versus just looking at meat so i would look at the bigger picture for your grocery budget and anything to add i know we got five more questions there in about less than 15 minutes so we'll probably speed these up just a little bit okay and i was just gonna jump in and say my allergies were horrible before i was uh you know doing uh carnivore and i was thinking benadryl around the clock claritin flonase all of that stuff mucinex all that stuff was so expensive so eating this way you know suddenly i knocked out a couple hundred dollars a month from my budget just by the over-the-counter stuff just a tip about oral health even though you didn't ask me if you were to open up spore probiotics or probiotics and swish it around your mouth before in taking it that can also support your microbiome in your or your oral microbiome and then in terms of so the one benefit i feel that grass finished meat does have is the whole regenerative agriculture is the whole climate conversation but other than that from nutri nutritional perspective i have seen zero difference with my clients but if you do want to eat grass finished i would recommend looking at your local farmer so for us our ranchers um i got a quarter steer we paid i think 5.99 a pound but you get cuts that you don't want i get that but i mean you can support your rancher that way and then we also purchased a whole hog and it was pasture raised and i think that one was also 5.99ish a pound but i mean it has a lot of fat it's really good so i would recommend getting a chest freezer buying meats when they're on sale and then buying like build that relationship with your local community because you're also giving the dollar directly to them and they very much need it yeah you 100 do not have to eat grass-fed speed to to get excellent results with this diet i've seen that over and over the data i have on 12 000 people shows that once again harvard university's studies showed that it's not a it's not a requirement like judy said yes there's some environmental impacts and grass-finished label is very deceptive anyway so sometimes you're paying for merely a label and they're not really making much different there is a website it's called mygroceries.com if you're not familiar then i highly recommend you look it up you can just type in meet my groceries.com put in your zip code and it'll tell you what's on sale and you can find you know you find rib eyes for five bucks a pound and it's a great way to do it so honestly and then of course buying all kind of things people said but you know back in the day you know we're looking you know 100 years ago food was 30 or 40 of the household budget it's now less than 10 so we're kind of shifting back to what's more important is it you know you just may have to make cuts in other areas i mean that's the reality of some things you know what's more important good nutrition in my view has to be you know focused and maybe you don't need that little you know gadget or whatever it might be so you could save money i need money in other places yeah i know dr baker is on a tight budget so he eats like 24 eggs a day and that's a cheap way to get a you know a lot of good nutrition as well eggs are good too eggs are great yeah all right thanks for the question and thank you i i um really got some good points for myself what major is somebody asked me about the carnivore diet i have all these voices that i can pass on to those people like certain points that you've just given me so it's not just for me it's for everybody else i'll talk to thanks great thank you hey everyone what an incredible segue so my name is janae williams i'm an advocate for regenerative agriculture i'm from north carolina i've got great land there i connect up regenerative family farms with the community you know just trying to get people back to understanding um what nature that they're in harmony with the earth you know so i'm actually to get out of a grocery store girl okay so um one of the things though is the struggle with the these small regenerative family farms really needing the support last thing we want to do is see lights out on them so i hear a lot about grassroots like this room is a powerful room the we're coming through these roots right here in this room and you guys are huge beacons of light and shout out to a day who really is you know just really giving a voice to the african-american community um i just really appreciate that um but we we've got this grassroots effort and i think i look at just all of the all of what's the pressure um to eradicate me and scares me um the and the whole argument with climate is just ridiculous like completely ridiculous i don't know you know how they're how they're they can even hear themselves say the things that they say so i look at 20 30 and so i have an impossible question are we doing enough we've got this grassroots it's great it's great but how do we stay away from a beyond me future i i don't want the you know laboratory contrived 24 20 30. what do we need to do do we have any officials somewhat lights that we can see in government you know that might we can kind of come through are there organizations that you can share um let's project you know what's successful i know dr baker spent a lot of time in this and eddie if you want to add on to that uh well in my former life i come from local politics so i ran for public office twice i do uh think a lot about this and i think that we need a lobby um we need a a lobbying advocacy firm that actually um you know works with a local elected officials because uh you know they're only you know in our congressional um rep representatives and they're only going to do what their constituents say and you know the reality is most americans do eat meat even though there's a lot of talk about you know going vegetarian i think most people are apologetic leaders you know um so what if we can continue to normalize meat eating and actually give space for those people who um don't want to give up eating meat but they're sort of embarrassed but we can give them space to actually um come together and have some support then you know that's a big big lobby that can be you know reaching out to their congressional reps saying hey i want to eat meat and i want it to be real and i want it to be labeled me um so that i don't by mistake you know by some of this other stuff so i i have been thinking about how you know uh 501 c 4 could be formed you know where you have a real advocacy agency because i think that's what it's going to take all of us being out there talking and then supporting um you know supporting these uh policies with our votes with calls to our representatives and you know that's really how it has to happen but somebody has to organize that effort yeah this is a huge topic and what i'm very passionate about and i and thank you for bringing the point of our president of agriculture i think it's important to to distinguish that from just the grass finish labor because that is having an impact on the environment and it is an issue and whether you believe that climate change is real or it's anthropogenically in nature is besides a point that's what what's going to happen regardless so we're going to have a lot of conversations about carbon footprints we're going to food label this high carbon low carbon that's coming that's going to happen some people whether will it be purely informational for people's benefit if they want to eat that way or if there's some sort of mandate attached to it i don't know yet you know like it's hard to say right now um i think the landscape of the meat industry in the future is probably the meat industry is not going anywhere in a significant way in my view i think what happens is you'll see these alternative markets emerging and enlarging you'll see more of the beyond meat companies you know even some of the big packers carl tyson jbs if they're getting into the alternative needs space and they want to just dominate the whole thing they want to have the entire market and so these beyond meats are going to go out of business carl cargill and tyson are going to take over there and they're going to they're going to win that there's going to be a lot of cultured meat there's going to be air meat you know from fixed nitrogen all those things are going to emerge currently the meat alternatives occupy about one to two percent of the market so even though they're they're talking about how much they've grown in the last couple years there's still a tiny tiny segment and then and the demand for me this going up is projected to go up by 70 over the next you know 20 years or something like with it with the growth of china and africa and other nations and so we still have to feed all those people so i don't know if the meat industry is going to ever go away uh it's probably going to shift around a little bit there's a ton of money there's hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars coming out of venture capital on silicon valley to support these you know also protein startups so that's going there but the regenerative side of things is also something that uh is is growing for sure and it'll continue to grow for those people that actually care about the environment and most consumers don't they they care about what something tastes like and what it costs that's the major driving factor for why people choose deep way they do but for those that do we'll see more and more regenerative agriculture i think either tyson or cargill has partnered with some regenerative farms and so they're going to develop that aspect as well i think you know we've got a study from harvard university that shows that eating meat cures diabetes i mean that that is a marketing tool i mean to me i was there presenting in front of the ceo of the ncba the national speak association i said look here is your marketing campaign you just gotta and i think as we all see greater and greater health results for just eating meat that can be a marketing time we should leverage that and i think again like we mentioned all of us out here just have to continue to use our voices you know we now have uh you know these these crazy stupid social media things which are such a waste of time but they also uh carry with it the ability to reach a lot of people and i just think we just have to continue to be vocal uh we can't be passive i mean that's that's the one thing we can't do we can't just quietly assume that someone's going to take care of us because it's not going to happen i'm not going to rely on the government i'm not going to rely on anyone else to do the job so we have to do it ourselves and i think there's you know 97 percent of americans still eat meat and around the world is very similar any country that can afford to do so does i mean anytime a country gets out of poverty the first thing they do is they start eating meat because they can finally afford to do so so it's uh as uh nasim toledo says it's something that's lindy meat is lindy you know we've been eating meat is very successful it's been around for millions of years uh because it works really well and it's going to continue to do so these novel things are going to they're going to be flashing and maybe you know over 10 20 years they may they may come in and they they fizzle back out but uh but at the same time um i think it's important to you know who's going to continue to eat meat is it going to be people in different parts of the world and half of america is going to be plant-based or something like that i don't think that's gonna be the case but at the same time you can protect the future generations because that's being marketed to right now and i mean most of us in this room i mean facebook most of us are 40 and older because most of us are concerned about our health because we've had health issues all the kids the consumers of tomorrow you know these 15 year old 17 year olds are being marketed to targeted to save the planet don't eat meat you know it's you know look at these poor little pigs being trapped in cages and stuff like that the emotional complete once they get caught up into that and some of you guys some of the people in here are probably caught up into that it takes them decades to recover from that many of them never do so we have to not only continue to be vocal about it we have the influence of younger generations and i think it's important about the african-american community the black community is one thing that paid me when i looked at harvard study was 93 caucasian i'm like that's not good enough for i mean i think we have to we do have to appeal to everybody because everybody should be mean and uh i think uh you know regenerative agriculture is a big part of that uh but again there is it's a 1.5 trillion dollar industry it's not going overnight it's not going to go away over the next three months so i think it's important to partner with the meat industry in general promote beef in general not just there can't be too much fragicide where you know we're like well only eating grass-finished beef anybody who eats stuff in the supermarket is an evil person because you know you're kind of cutting yours you're you're spitting your face and kind of putting your nose off despite your face type of situation so we just have to kind of promote meat in general save some health food and then all these other things will fall in place all right thank you for the question we're out of time i don't know if we can see we have a few questions that we have time for a rapid fire answer let's say we get rapid fire or if we can't i'm i'll be on the side and i'm sure maybe some others couldn't answer questions but we'll try rapid fire yes thank you for everything you'll do um sunlight how harmful or helpful is it in your opinion and um my question about organs being carnivore do you all in your opinion think you have to include organs to be a carnivore or no does anyone jump on the sunlight one we didn't talk about the organs earlier so we can maybe keep that one short so sunlight is really important i don't think it moves the needle as much as your diet but i think it's really important getting as much sunlight to get the vitamin d naturally is super important i think that the sunblock industry is not ideal so i do not recommend sunblock i wrote a whole blog post on all the nuances of the chemicals that are even killing our coral reefs on the sunblocks that we're using a lot of our skin cancers from sun is actually in areas that we don't even get sun so it's something to kind of think about but there's a hormone called melanocyte stimulating hormone it's primarily activated from your pituitary and it's from the uvs and that manages so much of a lot of the functions in your body so yes sunlight is super important the most important thing i'd recommend though is stop all of the sunscreens and then in terms of organs we talked about it earlier i'm sorry i wasn't here oh that's fine and i'm told the odr is nobody here advocates the need for organs yes and we are done i'm fired as a moderator but i see there's a few more questions so i'll be over there to answer questions and we can probably wrangle a couple of these guys too thanks everybody [Applause] [Music] [Music] you