This panel discussion features Dr. Anthony Chaffee alongside Dr. Baker and Dr. Kilts examining the controversial topic of insulin suppression on strict carnivore diets. The experts address concerns about whether long-term carnivore eating can impair insulin production, drawing evidence from Inuit populations who have thrived on exclusively carnivorous diets for generations without developing type 1 diabetes or metabolic dysfunction. They emphasize the principle of treating patients rather than lab numbers when isolated unusual test results appear in otherwise healthy individuals.
The conversation shifts to debunking the low-fat carnivore trend, where some advocates recommend reducing dietary fat to minimize insulin responses for faster weight loss. All three doctors strongly oppose this approach, explaining that fat provides essential nutrients and has minimal insulin impact compared to protein and carbohydrates. They stress that health should be prioritized over rapid weight loss, warning against unsustainable approaches that can lead to hair loss, nutrient deficiencies, and metabolic damage while emphasizing that proper carnivore eating requires adequate fat intake (60-70% of calories from fat).
Key Takeaways
- Insulin suppression from carnivore diets lacks evidence - Inuit populations have maintained exclusive meat-based diets for generations without developing type 1 diabetes or requiring medical intervention for insulin deficiency
- Fat intake should comprise 60-70% of calories on carnivore diets - a marbled ribeye steak naturally provides about 65% fat calories, which represents optimal macronutrient ratios rather than dangerous excess
- Low-fat carnivore approaches under 1,000 calories daily cause serious health problems including hair loss, nutrient deficiencies, and metabolic damage that require breaking the restrictive pattern
- Fat produces minimal insulin response compared to protein (moderate increase) and carbohydrates (significant spike) - making dietary fat the preferred macronutrient for those concerned about insulin levels
- Insulin Suppression on Carnivore Diet - Examining the Evidence
- Clinical Experience with Ketogenic and Carnivore Diets
- Fasting Effects on Insulin and Glucose Levels
- Fat Intake and Insulin Response - Low Fat Carnivore Debate
- Health vs Weight Loss - Sustainable Carnivore Approach
This is an auto-generated transcript from YouTube and may contain errors or inaccuracies.
[Music] Is insulin suppression a real thing if you stay too strictly carnivore for too long? Well, thank thank you very much for that first of all. Um, not in my experience. I mean, it it doesn't it doesn't line up with our evolutionary history with the the what we observe in native populations like the Inuit who are largely if not exclusively carnivorous by choice and also by circumstance. You up in the North Pole, there really isn't anything else to eat. You know, people can say, well, they're eating fresh meat and there's glycogen. There's not actually all that much glycogen and then does it break down and it gets into lactate. going to hold down all that down that rabbit hole, but really what we're saying is we're eating we're eating the same thing, right? And so we're eating meat and it has a certain amount of glycogen, it has a certain amount of other nutrients and and it has the physiological effects that it has. Um, it doesn't, you know, you have Native Americans who are eating pemkin for most of the year that's dried. So you're not, you know, you're definitely going to get the breakdown of that glycogen into lactate. And so you can't really have that argument either. But either way, you get everything that you need from meat. And we don't see the sort of this type one expression in the Inuit. They have the very very healthy outcomes. And so you can't live generation after generation after generation if that were the case. And so, you know, maybe there's there's, you know, even in in Dr. Civy's um experience, he he's talking about isolated examples of people that have strange numbers on their test. And like Dr. Baker said they were they were otherwise very healthy. And there's a there's a saying in medicine which is you treat patients, you don't treat lab tests. And so having an isolated or you know a few isolated examples of someone who has numbers on their blood test that we don't really fully understand but otherwise healthy, that's not necessarily reason to throw the baby out with the bath water. And in my experience, I I haven't had even an isolated example of that in my clinical practice when people go on carnivore ketogenic diets. And we've had we've had people on ketogenic diets a lot longer um than than just this recent iteration of a carnivorous ketogenic diet, a plant-free ketogenic diet. So, this isn't something that, you know, really really showed up. And so, um I I agree with with Dr. Baker that if this if this was true insulin suppression, we should see elevated blood sugars. We should see people having a s sort of a type one expression or a lot of or some sort of um sign of insufficiency that if if you have insulin insufficiency or suppression causing insufficiency, there should be consequences thereof, namely high blood sugar, keto acidosis, those sorts of things. And that's that's I I haven't seen that yet personally myself anyway. Yeah. Hey everyone, really happy to announce a new sponsor for the show for everybody down in Australia. Stockman Steaks, who are delivering high quality grass-fed and finished, pasture-raised beef and other meats, flash frozen, and vacuum sealed to your door. Something I've been enjoying a lot of myself recently as well. They also have a great range of specialty items such as highfat keto mints and carnivore beef and organs mints with liver, kidneys, and beef heart as well. So, use code chaffy today for a free order of beef mints or another specialty gift along with your order at stockmanstakess.com.au and I'll see you over there. Thanks, guys. I agree with both of you guys. Dr. Kilts, have how many how many cases of insulin suppression have you diagnosed and have you treated because of a carnivore diet? If I saw someone with a low insulin level, I would suspect type one diabetes. And I haven't seen anyone on a carnivore diet, although um I've measured my insulin levels and glucose on a fast and it's been less than two on a 3 to five day fast and my glucose levels are between 45 and 55 asymptomatic and doing normal function. My theory about insulin is it's a digestive hormone. It's rises when you consume amino acids and sugars and it goes to the liver and in the liver it converts amino acids, sugars to fat. That's its job. If you're eating a high fat only then and and all though you likely should see a little bit of insulin because there is some sugar and proteins in fat but um I haven't seen that. Uh, and I suspect that, you know, carnivore is the healthiest thing you could do and it should be a fatty meat carnivore and I enjoy fasting because, uh, you really get lower glucose, lower insulin levels, and you feel fantastic. So, yeah, I totally agree. I totally agree. I think I think we all agree on that. Now, you brought up u that when you eat anything, your insulin elevates. And so there's another thing that I've heard in the carnivore community that there's a subset of a subset that's now recommending a lower fat carnivore diet because if you eat too much fat that can cause an insulin spike which can slow down weight loss or or fat metabolism, fat loss. I have I'll just go first and say I have first of all that's not how human physiology works. You have a very small elevation in insulin when you eat fat. Uh you have a much higher elevation when you eat protein and then you have the insulin spike when you eat carbohydrates. Have any of you guys and we'll go in alphabetical order Baker Chafy kills. Have you guys do you does this make any physiological sense to you? Do you recommend a lower fat carnivore diet to anybody any time? And there may be exceptions to this, but we'll go with Dr. Baker first. Yeah. I mean, I just to your point on insulin and fats, you know, fat stimulating insulin secretion, there was a a recent cataric study looking at uh uh you know, they they found recently deceased people and they kept the beta cells alive and they they secrete they they tested them against fat, protein and carbs. They did find that in about 9% of the cadaavvers fat actually was quite potent at stimulating insulin. So I think there is a small set of population out there of people where they do get an insulin response due to fat. So it's not completely zero. Having said that um a carnivore diet is always going to be a highfat diet. Now there are degrees of fatness you might say. So some people will really thrive on very high ketogenic ratios. Other people s you know sort of thrive with maybe 60% of their calories coming from fat. That's similar to what I often do. So a ribeye steak for instance reasonably marble is going to get you about 66 5% of your calories coming from fat. That is still a very highfat diet, but it is a lower fat carnivore diet. So that may be some the misconception there. Uh going to like protein sparing modified fast levels is not consistent with you know a carnivore diet. Um certainly you can use it and people can do use that to lose weight and people do from time to time. It's not sustainable. Uh you're going to be dealing with hunger a lot and uh it's not something that I you know like like we said there are all kinds of weight loss hacks for quick weight loss. sugar diet, carnivore diet, fat fasting, dry fasting, wet fasting, all kinds of things. But I mean, you know, I think at the end of the day, you have to figure out something that's going to work for you over the long term. And if you're doing a carb reduced or, you know, essentially carb-free diet, um, then you need adequate fat. And that's going to be, like I said, one, two to one, 1.5 to one, something somewhere in that range is probably going to be appropriate for for almost all people. Yeah. Dr. JP, what do you think about this this idea? Hey guys, just want to take a second to thank our sponsor at Carnivore Bar. I don't promote many products because honestly, all you need to be healthy is to just eat meat. For those times that you're out hiking, road tripping, or stuck at work and you want nutritious snack that is just meat, fat, and salt if you want it, the Carnivore Bar is a great option. So, I like this product not because it's just pure meat, but also because I want the carnivore market to thrive as well. And the more we support meat only products, the more meat only products there will be available in the mainstream. So if this sounds like something you'd like to get behind, check it out using my discount code Anthony to get 10% off, which also applies to subscriptions, giving you 25% off total. All right, thanks guys. Yeah, so I I I think that it it can certainly be dangerous, honestly. I think that people can run into serious problems. You can you you know, there's many ways to skin a cat. You know, everybody knows you starve yourself and doing these words and you can lose weight. That's not really the point. The point is to gain health and as you improve your health and increase your health, you will also normalize your body habitus and your your body composition and you and you'll lose fat if you have excess fat. But your weight and your and your body composition follows your health. And so that's why I always I always try to to make that the most important thing that I that I um prioritize with my patients is that we're working on your health first, then body composition very distant second. And if you're working out and you're putting on lean body mass and you're losing fat, the scale may not change all that much. So people think that like, wow, I'm I'm not losing weight even though I feel good. And so you need to be aware of that. And then nowhere on that list, I tell my patients, nowhere on that list is your weight because your weight does not say anything about your health or your body composition. And so it's it's about health first. And when you're when you're doing when you're cutting out all the fat and you're starving yourself, sure, you're going to lose weight, but it's not sustainable. As Dr. Baker said, what are you going to do long term? It's better to set yourself up for future success and set your habits up now uh for what you're going to be doing in the future. You should be doing the same thing now that gives you good health now that you will be doing 5, 10 years, 15, 20 years down the road. Something that's going to maintain those positive effects that you've had. Now, maybe that doesn't get you there as fast as you want them to, but slow and steady wins the race. This goes back to ancient Greece, right? You know, just look, stay on the path, do the right thing, even though it seems like it's taking longer, you'll actually get to where you want to go uh faster, better, more efficiently. It's also very important for people to realize that fat is not just a calorie source. It's not just something that's going to, you know, add to your your your total calories for the day. And maybe those calories need to be stored. They're essential nutrients. There's a set of essential nutrients. They're essential fatty acids you have to have or you can get sick and die. They're essential fat soluble nutrients that you have to have or you can get sick and die. And by eliminating those, you can actually hurt yourself. And I've had many people reach out to me that they have tried this um this sort of short-term sort of diet. Um you know, they paid thousands of dollars to go into these courses and and basically what they're told is do a carnivore diet, but mostly protein, low fat, and under 1,000 calories a day and get out and exercise. Like I I have no doubt that that's going to make people lose weight, but it's also going to make them less healthy. And people are telling me that they're having serious health issues as a result of that. They're losing their hair. They're um having other sort of serious issues as well. And um and that they have to break out of that. Okay. So, you can't do that forever. What do what do you do? What do you go back to? You haven't taught them, you know, how to how to live and how to how to eat properly. Um and so now they say, "Okay, well, I can't maintain this. I can't continue this." And what do they do? They go back to sort of whatever they were doing before and they sort of do that yo-yo diet. So I think that that's that's an issue. Definitely agree with the idea that that fat is not your main uh concern for insulin um elevation. It has some some u properties where will will slightly raise insulin in some cases, but protein is going to do it a lot more. Carbs are going to do it a lot more than that. And so if we're worried about insulin specifically, fat is actually where you want to lean into. And um from from very quickly from a weight perspective, this is something that was that was pointed out by Dr. Michael Eids and he just pointed out that you know we're looking at this equation the wrong way. We're saying well there's there's nine cal there's um nine calories per gram of fat and four for protein and and carbs and that sort of not exactly that. But um what he pointed out was we're looking at the wrong way around because calories don't weigh anything. Grams weigh something. And so it's actually one gram per nine calories. So you get more bang for your buck where it's actually 2.2 grams per nine calories for protein and carbs. So if you want to pull in less weight, if you eat a pound of steak, your system will weigh one more pound, right? And so if you're eating lean and you have to eat three pounds to get the same calories, then you have to take in three pounds, whereas otherwise you take in one pound. And so you're you're actually bringing in less grams of nutrition into your body. So that's something to think about as well. But from an insulin standpoint um you should not have that is not what you need to worry about as far as insulin is concerned.