How To Carnivore Ep 25: Return of Dr John Jaquish!

welcome to the plant-free md podcast with dr anthony chafee where we discuss diet and nutrition and how this affects health and chronic disease and show you how you can use this to optimize your health and happiness both mentally and physically hey guys just want to take a second to thank our sponsor carnivore bar i don't promote many products because honestly all you need to be healthy is just eat meat and that's what you should do but if you're hiking or road tripping or stuck at work and you want something nutritious that is just meat fat and possibly salt if you want it the carnivore bar is a great option i like this product not only because it is pure meat but also because i really want the carnivore market to thrive as well the more we support meat only products the more people will make meat only products and this will bring this into the mainstream so this sounds like something you'd like to check out then take a look and use my discount code htc to get 10 off which also applies to subscriptions giving you 25 off total all right thanks guys hey everybody back with another episode of the how to carnival podcast uh we've got anthony chaffee here the plant for emd and also john jaquish dr john jacobish who has a phd and is the inventor of osteostrong and the x3 bar uh so it's time to talk working out carnivore getting jacked as you get older and all those good things so uh welcome anthony and welcome john hey thanks for having us yeah yeah good to see you man it's uh you know it's been a while since we we spoke last time but um i definitely wanted to talk to you more about uh you know just the x3 war and just exercise fitness in general um last time we we spoke a lot of people got got quite a lot out of that and a lot of people been asking for an encore so i appreciate you be making some time to come back on 100 and we'll do it a third time if people still have more questions yeah sounds good yeah absolutely um so don't worry yeah yeah um well let's get into it talking about the x3 bar so uh anthony's been using it for a little while now and is doing it doing the 30 day challenge um john how did this how did this come about and what's the purpose of the of the x3 bar versus you know just going to the gym so i had been going to the gym for 20 years uh and i really didn't get much out of it um i didn't get much out of it so you you weren't in good shape or um i mean i was lean for a little while but that had less to do with the gym and more to do with my diet and i played rugby in in university so that keeps you lean yeah sprinting and stopping sprinting and stopping like you don't see a lot of fat rugby players so um i was how do i how do i say it without totally trashing weight lifting i mean i guess i was sore on a regular basis i really didn't gain a lot of muscle um when i was playing for a semi-pro team um i had some testicular damage uh so then i got a prescription for testosterone replacement therapy and so this was a 27 years old and so and then i was like i don't really need a rugby in my life anymore i'm a much better fan anyway like um you know like like i'm pretty sure you're like anthony you went like all-american right yeah yeah yeah not me yeah i was just i was there for like my my university experience was much more about uh well it was i guess it was about academics i i did pretty well and then um i like my fraternity and rugby was just something that was like yeah like i'm tough i can do this but i wasn't i wasn't planning on like a future rugby so like every last last talk we had anthony was going on and on about all the stuff he did in rugby and i'm like i'm identifying with like the first story and then the second story and then and then for americans like bro like i'm you lost me so um yeah yeah so uh it was certainly a fun experience and i love the game but uh you know i was way more interested in keeping my teeth and my face intact than i was winning games and at a low level you'll do fine in rugby uh with that attitude at a high level you'll do awful because the other guys you know and also coincidentally after i graduated i did some research on different bone uh density and bone structure of different races of people who's best at rugby so like new zealanders islanders the gauge of bone like if i if i grab on to my radius bone right here you know just pinch it you know it's maybe two centimeters thick you find a guy that was smaller than me on the field shorter than me he would have thinner bones you'd think but if he was from tonga or samoa it was like the dude had rebar in his arms it was like like you know you'd grab on his wrist and i'd be let me see that for a second and i remember thinking i'm writing a paper about this and i did i did it it was an interesting like different races of people are just designed for high impact collisions and others are not so uh and uh you know like white dudes really not yeah but if you got some islander in you then you know you're good so uh so that was that was part of my primary reason but then when i got out of school and to answer your question my mother was diagnosed with osteoporosis and so i and this is where osteostrong came from i looked at how i could treat her bone loss she didn't want to take any of the drugs that were out there and i didn't blame her i read some of the side effects and i was like god the side effects are worse than having osteoporosis which we see all the time the different side effects of medications um and and also as i got into research i met a lot of researchers that told me you know there's no such thing as a side effect drugs have effects some you want and some you don't yeah and it's like just understand that and you will do so much better in writing about pharmaceuticals versus physical medicine because i could see where like i was trying to go i was trying to say what if we could come up with a physical medicine solution uh something where we could make the human body do something and we could create an environment where the bone density had to go up and set it down so sedentary lifestyle bone density is going down how do we get enough force through the bone so that we trigger it to grow and not just maintain like grow like go back to where it was when you were 30 years old which is when peak bone mass is so i built a series of devices uh that are now found in osteostrong locations and they put compressive force on bone to emulate high impact forces so not high impact but the emulation of high impact to manifest those growth uh differences you know that we see in younger years of life so i did that and then just through some of my connections the first uh real clinical trial was at um the university of east london and they're using a nearby hospital facility to do patient recruitment and do the therapy act and um so as they were doing this some of the physicians at the hospital who had osteopenia which is like pre-osteoporosis and osteoporosis were like well we can't be test subjects because we're not blinded but we just want to use the device like is there any reason we shouldn't no no go ahead it's very safe and so they used it and they noticed they took dexa scans and they showed bone growth and they were thrilled because this was a problem that was bothering them and they didn't want to take the medications either you know i i find it interesting when i talk to a lot of physicians about prescribing certain medications and then i ask well would you take this different answer yeah like go prescribe something frequently and it's like would you take this well you know i might look into nutritional solutions first it's like you don't say that to your patients though and i get the same argument every time yeah compliance i tell patients to work out they don't i tell them to stop eating twinkies they don't i tell them to stop drinking two bottles of wine a day and they don't so it's tough okay uh yeah i'll give them that you know like a pill like unless the pill gives them like immediate acid reflux or something awful happens right away yeah they might stick with that so what like why is it always a medication well that's part of the reason so so uh they used this device and they got a result that they never expected to get even from some stronger courses of drugs that they would never take and so they were thrilled and uh when that clinical trial was coming to conclusion and uh i wasn't writing it up i was just there to make sure they were using the device correctly you know because you want to make sure they don't use it wrong and then get a bad result then it's like the data's worthless yeah so say it again no just yeah i was agreeing with you yeah yeah yeah make sure they actually have the proper technique so some of the physicians were saying i can't believe the forces that are going through my body it's like six seven eight nine times my body weight um and i remember the the one who had the highest loading compared to her body weight she was a 90 pound woman and she was putting nine times her body weight through her hip joint and she's like that's like i looked up like strongest people in the world can't lift that and i'm like well okay you're not lifting it you're compressing your bone mass specifically in the hip joint to get that loading but it's a very interesting point because in weight lifting like if like really once you look at that research and then compare it to regular weightlifting and i did that i did a comparison of the inanes database and what people on average lift and for those that don't know what the names database is is the largest health database in the world to add about 2 000 people per year and have been doing so for maybe 12 years now and it's whole battery of tests there's strength testing there's body composition testing there's uh blood work like pretty much every conveniently gathered in some inconveniently gathered health metrics are all put together on different individuals and with that much data you can look at certain people and draw some conclusions maybe it's like a random sample of people a random sample of population yeah wow right but then once you get the ram sample then you can parse it out to like marginally athletic people highly athletic people and then you start to understand maybe athletic populations it turns out like some of the most athletic people that are in the innings database work out two or three times a week right again not every day really like i would expect people to be working out a little more than that but we do live well i live in the united states and uh 75 of men in the united states are overweight or obese so you got to consider what the norm is like what's the average if the average is for you know overweight or obese well you know then the fit people in the names database may not be so fit but for these for the purposes of what i was looking into it was like what sort of weights are people dealing with when exercising the lower extremities versus how we compress the hip joint in in the osteostrong medical devices so looking at the capacity by the way an osteoarthritis all the force is self-created so force doesn't come on you you create the force and you're looking at a computer readout of what your body's capable of so think about it this is for safety reasons like can i break my own finger by squeezing a fist no can't do it no you can't there's a neural inhibition it's sort of like it takes more force to bite through a carrot than it does through your own finger but you can't bite through your finger because your own neural inhibitory process will stop you from doing that like it just won't let your jaw muscle contract enough to actually you know cause you to go right through right to a bone so um looking at that whole solution i realized people are seven times stronger in a stronger range of motion like right here then they are in their weaker range of motion so now knowing that i thought wow like weightlifting is a terrible approach to stimulating muscular growth because we are so powerful yet we don't know it because every time you go to lift weights you pick the weight you can handle in the weakest range of motion but you're actually seven times more capable see what you need is a weight that's changing as you're moving it from strong to weaker range and it's got to be relevant in every range so then i thought okay i'll write a book about band training because that seems to have never taken off and keep in mind this was probably like seven or eight years ago um way before i launched x3 and so i bought a couple of the heavier bands i could find because most of the bands out there are like five pounds you know like it's not relevant for strength great for rehab not relevant for strength so i found some 50 100 pound bands and immediately it was like every joint my body hurt because you can't when you grab a hold of a band it wants to be a circle well the human body doesn't interface with circles so well we interface with flat ground and straight bars real well and that's been known and that's why that's what fitness is based on but at the same time you need those those services and those grips to be able to fully engage the body so i thought okay you know i got to develop now i got to develop a product now it's not about writing a book uh though i did write the book anyway uh and then and so it was like we need something to keep the wrist neutral and the ankles neutral and if we do that we can load the body far beyond what weight lifting can ever do in the appropriate ranges of motion and trigger growth much faster and that's that was the birth of acts three and i did write the book weightlifting is a waste of time it's a wall street um said about the title yeah most people who complain about the title never read the book shocking i know yeah uh yeah yeah so you know it's the the we don't really like the company doesn't target people in the fitness industry per se we're much more interested in um sort of the busy professional who can maybe read some science and understand it but fitness people cannot understand science it's not that they don't won't try they're not capable [Laughter] like just i mean look the the two biggest fitness information outlets on the internet are youtube and instagram videos and pictures yeah i mean it's like we're in preschool [Laughter] you you got to turn the whole book into a video of um of short instagram reels yeah right yeah and they can just flick past the parts they think they understand but don't yeah yeah i mean i i don't know what the actual answer is it's okay because i'm getting to the market that i'm looking for but like yeah i'm just absolutely blown away like when i bump into these fitness people like you know all kinds of swear words which usually would hit a filter but they misspell even the swear words that's they get through yeah they can't even get their profanity right yeah who's it really working for is it um like older people who have osteoporosis or you know busy professional strong yes yeah for x3 the uh it's really just the busy professional it's the guy who tried lifting weights didn't get anything out of it which by the way is like 99.9 percent of the population like how many people do you two know i already asked uh you know got this answer from anthony but you know could you create a list of 10 people that you know that have been working out for more than two years who look absolutely no different whatsoever from the day they started yeah you could everybody yeah very common that's almost everyone who is involved in fitness you you nothing changes if you're fat you're still fat if you're skinny you're still skinny yeah it just it's not working and i got some explanations for that the biggest genetic difference is tendon layout so like if i look at my my tendon you know like like my pectoral so the origin is here and then it attaches right you know here you know that's where it's supposed to attach right here sort of uh comes underneath the bicep and attaches on the humerus so its job is to draw the humerus in towards the midline of my body but some people maybe one tenth to one percent have it over here or anywhere else along that that humorous bone well the further away from the origin you have it and there's maybe six or seven different studies on this further away you have it the longer lever you have in your body so if you have a lever in your body you have a massive advantage and this is why most people lift weights and get nothing out of it and then all of a sudden there's one guy who seems to grow bigger every time the guy shows up at the gym you know i went to high school with a guy like that his name is mark it was like we started working out at the same time we were about the same size the guy put on like 40 pounds in the summer yeah you know i think i've put on one yeah i know people who've done that i'm feeling yeah yeah i've done it and i'm just looking at him like what are you doing he goes i don't know the only difference uh between what you're doing and what i'm doing is i smoke cigarettes and i'm like yeah yeah yeah so i mean the guy just he just couldn't stop drawing incredible musculature um then he ended up being just an excellent athlete but you know that's that's the genetic genetic born nfl player kind of genetics but when you train with variable resistance you get that leverage like you're actually nullifying the advantage that most people have and getting the advantages or getting the advantage yourself depending on how you want to look at it but the lever arm makes no difference and like really tall people like look at the look at the nba a lot of those guys like they're in shape they're lean but they're pretty thin not a lot of guys can put on a lot of muscle uh now they can because no it's it's still harder to see on an nba player when you're six foot seven yeah it's stretched out so much yeah yeah yeah exactly like a short guy puts on 20 pounds of muscle and everybody's like whoa yeah yeah there's a different ball of mine yeah an nba player puts on 40 pounds of muscle and nobody notices yeah yeah yeah so um but but still they can they can gross a musculature because now their disadvantages are gone and they can grow muscle like the nfl player now yeah can you john can you dig into that a bit more because i'm because i'm taller and quite lean so how so because is it that they can get into that that um kind of sweet spot of maximum tension and force faster with the x3 bar or why is it that that it's easier now for tall people to build muscle it's the middle part okay that you don't get stuck on it's the it's the this it's getting stuck right here you talk about that as like sticking point but really it's just kind of a lack of leverage um lack of access to the muscle because you know when somebody helps you pass that point you know you can you can do lockouts or something with some a weight that's much higher than you would otherwise be able to handle in full range um yeah because we've probably all seen the short muscular guy who can bench a heap you know they put 150 kilos on the bar and it's because they're only they're only moving the bar about this far that's right right and their elbow is still closer yeah you know inside so they don't have the mechanical disadvantage that a taller guy would but with x3 none of that makes a difference yeah and it also you um [Music] you see even in weightlifting and trying to accommodate for that exact phenomenon you know they have like uh you know the heavy chains to put on the side of like a a bench bar so whereas like you know as you're going up it's pulling up more chains off the ground which you just add add way too it's the exact same concept except it's it's not adding nearly as much weight um as like the x3 bar can i mean it's adding sort of like five pounds per link but obviously there's uh there's a limit on how many of those links yeah if you're 11 feet tall maybe you can get some good variants in there but probably not yeah that was sort of the other thing that when i looked at this is the advantage that i had that no one else who designed a piece of equipment ever had the advantage of having which was the bone density research so nobody really knew what the maximum capability of people were in their most optimized range of motion it was always seen as a place where you absorb force so you can absorb like gymnasts absorb 10 times their body weight upon landing uh from the uneven bars that's the biggest drop they have so 10 times their body weight you know anybody that squats 10 times their body weight no neither does anyone else yeah so like way higher loading capability we have so how do we access that from an exercise science standpoint like how do we get the benefit of the landing that the gymnast has without having to actually become a gymnast because there's all sorts of reasons why we can't all go do that so i mean if you're like over five eight you know you you can't do that right anthony would never we put him on the uneven bars he would just like whack his feet you know the bar seriously like you can't fit yeah so so uh how do we get that proper loading and i realized that the ratio of force was really the critical issue because there had been some studies that showed variable resistance was great but they'd be holding x at the bottom and maybe 1.2 x at the top where you really want x at the bottom and maybe 4 or 5 or six x here so it's it's gotta be in coincidentally after i started somebody came out with a study um i can't remember the author but it's in the book and uh they showed that the greater the ratio of variance the more muscular growth there is in a shorter period of time so and and x3 was like even a more aggressive ratio than they were using that study but i think that study might have been designed sort of around like hey this x3 idea we're either going to prove it or disprove it because that's how science works you know you don't you don't start out trying to prove something works you want to find that you want to create a test that'll show if it works or not in potentially why yeah yeah or potentially trying to disprove it you know that that's a properly designed study it's like okay you know i you know let's let's we're this is our assertion that this works okay let's try and disprove it you know because you know you're at a much stronger position there you know because you're looking for ways to you know you know test it and look for chinks in the armor and if you what nuances of the study would have well the previous studies would have made this work even if it wasn't what it was you know so like let's let's eliminate even more variables that people didn't think of in the first trial so yeah and uh and with variable resistance there's 16 well-written studies and 16 out of 16 show you grow muscle faster and i would say like there was a study in the very beginning one of the first ones i cited that showed that people were getting stronger at the triple the rate which is why i called the thing x3 it's funny like we tested that with a bunch of audiences and people just didn't believe it and so i i went to uh the strap line of the product is now greater force greater gains which is somebody nobody argues with um and they grow muscle very fast still but the idea that it was triple the speed two things i didn't like about it one is people found that so hard to believe though it was true in the study but also i would say it's more than triple because most people who lift weights they get zero you know it's like what's your progress after a year zero of what you progress after two years zero so yeah i mean it's harsh to say and i mean i called the book weight lifting's race waste time for a reason and i call out all sorts of statistics about how unfit americans are even the ones that go to the gym all the time because the people [Music] the people that you see at most gyms and the people that you see at the pizza hut are they any different no i mean maybe you go to gold's gym in venice california yeah that's different yeah yeah it's totally different though that's like you know like half the members are professional athletes and um and also the people going to pizza hut are often the same guys going to the gym because they you know they go they go to the gym and go i earned this pizza and they eat something wretched for their body and you know and they're just they're really really fighting against themselves even putting in place pizza with heroin and say that saying yeah yeah sentence like it's just i mean not that pizzas is damaging as heroin but like stop justifying things to yourself yeah when you want something that you know is bad for you like just play different scenarios like boy i had a really hard day so i should be allowed to cheat on my wife today yeah i don't think she will agree so like it's like it's like one of these i've earned this yeah i've been in the gym all day i played with the kids i bought my wife flowers i earned this hooker yeah yeah right right like no one would say no i mean i'm sure there's some guy out there that probably has said that probably does think that yeah but it's like nobody would say that about anything other than food and this is where we were talking earlier and i was just about to say like for some reason society like if i if i see somebody who smokes and i see them just lighten you know their next cigarette with a burning butt of the last one yeah i can say that guy like you're this is a bad path like you like those too much like get that out of your life and uh you know if i say it and not be a smart ass about it even a random person will be like yeah you're right maybe he'll listen maybe it won't be me maybe the next guy or maybe it'll be his uncle who dies a lung cancer and then he goes oh [ __ ] i gotta quit doing this but try walking up to somebody telling them to eat too much um yeah yeah like it's a random person it's not going to go down well i mean just think think about the conversation i couldn't help but notice you're overweight um you should probably like make some better nutrition choices can i help you they will like yeah yeah they don't lose their mind yeah yeah just that's just the situation that we're in telling telling them you shouldn't be eating that um you know like i went to a super bowl party this year and uh the food was all just junk food and so i went and i had a couple pounds of ground beef and then i went to the party and you know they noticed i wasn't eating anything and i'm like well you're not serving anything that's food i actually in in my own way i thought that was like the nicest thing to say we were like what do you mean like well i would never put any of this in my body yeah by the way you shouldn't either it's like i was like i like ruin this event i'm not gonna go guys just finish this game at home yeah it's okay nobody wanted me there at that point anyway yeah like um you're talking about that as well you know people why is that such a problem yeah yeah it shouldn't be and we should be able to say like we should hold ourselves to a higher standard and not like no idea like if i'm at a group dinner especially if i'm paying the bill uh you know the people like oh let's get the you know let's get the the cheese sticks and let's get the uh you know the bavarian pretzel balls and i'm like yeah let's um just take the steak entree and you can have the you know chef just cut it up and give us a bunch of toothpicks yeah yeah like i do that all the time yeah any restaurant will be like yeah sure we'll do that and uh and then if you were like why did you do that that's not even that appetizer on the menu yeah i'm the customer i get whatever i want yeah yeah and also we're gonna eat healthy if you're gonna be with me that's the price you pay yeah well that you know a lot a lot of people do um you know you use food in the same way that we use drugs you know and people use you know people who do use drugs or they drink or smoke whatever maybe they'll do that on the weekend maybe they'll drink on the weekend or do you know you know special event they'll go to parties or whatever um and they you know you they know that there's bad for them and they accept that it's bad for them and say well i know this is bad for me however i want this effect i want to party i want to have fun or whatever and you know i'll take the hangover i'll take the the healthy i mean they don't realize just how much it's hurting their body but you know they they at least recognize that concept and they're willing to make that trade-off but with food you know they can also do that as well but they don't they don't realize it's as bad as it is and they all have some pizza oh it's not really the best for me but you know i like it and so we have that same sort of uh relationship with food and even think about it the same way wow and and then you know you tell a junkie you're talking i'm not going away yeah you know you you tell a junkie you know it's like hey you know you should probably cut down you know a lot of them will get very offended as well they get really pissed off because you're challenging you know their their habit and the thing is is that you know they probably know already that yeah this is this is bad for them and now you're reminding them of this and you're like goddamn i'm just trying to party all right i'm not trying to think about you know reality and you do that with food as well and people get get really pissed off um it's the socially acceptable addiction yeah absolutely yeah yeah and like every um every birthday that comes around out comes the birthday cake and you know every uh every sort of social get-together out comes the cakes and coffees and sweets and all that sort of thing it's you know very cultural isn't it and and in some cultures it's better than others um my mother's from belgium and like and i i don't like this about belgium but i also do so i mean they're always talking about the chocolates that come at the end of the meal and they're always talking about the little cute pastries and i mean like this just pisses me off because i have 46 first cousins in belgium imagine how many pastries i get handed and i have to say no yeah it's just like come on guys you know what i do you all follow me [Laughter] but the good news is it's usually one piece of chocolate and one little pastry yeah so there's something to be said about volume yeah and that's not how americans do it like if you get a piece of cake you get like a huge piece of cake and you might have a second one they don't do and then and then you know in a lot of asian countries being overweight is considered shameful to your family like you're like gluttonous so like but they never talk about it it's just like you know when somebody gets fat it's like like the uh like that it's just like the old guys like no yeah like the um like the asian nail places where you know they have those like undercover uh cameras and things like that if someone comes oh yeah you see the subtitles and it's like right yeah yeah yeah they trash talk oh yeah that and i mean i'm not saying bullying is positive but i think it can be maybe a little like a little bit of peer pressure okay help us all well i mean there's i mean certainly bullying and really going after someone and and being horrible is obviously not yeah yeah it's very negative but like but you know the you know in psychology we look at you know keeping people in you know in in the range of norms and you know when someone's someone's stepping outside of that you know it actually is beneficial to the society for them to just go hey what the hell are you doing you know that's just that's not really what we do here and you know in social um it's unhealthy i mean like like like what you see on the cover of sports illustrated now they're like glorifying obesity like that's just the wrong move yeah like if you choose to you know uh if i had to put you know one over the other like somebody like smoking marijuana okay so you're gonna get dumber you know there's quite a bit of research now when you quit or when you take an extended break a lot of brain activity comes back but really the mechanism of thc is like limiting blood flow to the brain that's why you uncontrollably laugh about stuff it's like your brain isn't working yeah you're like what is i can't think of that name of that thing i need to eat oh yeah fork give me a fork i mean that kind of thing that's that's hilarious but at the same time it's because you limited the blood flow to your brain yeah so but if somebody has a habit of that the long-term effects aren't as damaging as if somebody's habit is i just like to eat a box of candy bars every day you know and uh and that that's the kind of thing that we we need to be able to tell people no yeah it'd be nice that you know when this gets more you know mainstream i think it is you know like you know people because obviously you know everyone everyone has a different opinion on what what's healthy eating and that that's very hard for people and they say it's just like you're like what am i who am i supposed to listen to everyone's making great arguments i don't know what the hell uh to believe um but you know we obviously you know you know the three of us are all making our arguments for for a carnivore die or a carnivore-based diet and you know and then it's starting to get some traction and people are now you know being mouthpieces themselves and and start talking about this and they become healthier and then yeah right yeah that's it and so you know eventually we're going to be able to get get them being you know enough in the mainstream that they're able to to sort of keep people into like that you know in that social uh construction saying hey actually that's really not healthy you should really put down that carrot that's really that's really gonna screw you up and um and actually have that make sense because like you know it sort of sounds insane like put down a carrot you know like why would a carrot be bad for you here it was what i needed yeah exactly and that is that's hot and then and then we gotta untrain a lot of people who think that you know they eat carrots all day that'd be the healthiest thing they could do it's all day no no you'd be like living on a toilet probably give yourself diverticulitis yeah know the standard of care for diverticulitis still i mean there's been 10 years of research that shows the higher your fiber the worse diverticulitis gets yeah yet the recommendation when you get diverticulitis is only fiber in your diet yeah like don't eat meat nothing just just fiber yeah well and and and even even more insane and counter to their own thinking is that you know when you go to the hospital with this stuff and you have to have fourth test you go on a you know a low residue diet so they even tell you like like the general surgeons will say hey you know no fiber nothing like that as soon as the infection is cleared you know they say now you better get on that high fiber diet you know that that's what's really going to protect you it's like are you insane you know like the hot you you literally had to stop them from eating fiber because that was you know that was making this thing worse and now stop and you're telling them to do the exact thing that you told them was going to make it worse like that that's just a level of insanity to me that just like just beggars imagination because like you are countering yourself you know you see the evidence in front of you you're saying yeah don't do that oh but now you really need to do that like what in the hell are you talking about you know but yeah there's a lot of that there's a lot of that in in the hospitals unfortunately every day the hospital system also what's in the cafeteria of actually i'm kind of curious what's in the cafeteria awfully not australian hospitals awful it's just it's just carbs and sugar carbs and sugar and that's just sugar right that's it same thing with them yeah it's like yeah they got a little slice of apple cake or apple pie and they got a ice cream couple salad options and a couple pieces of sliced fruit and you're like where's the barbecue yeah like soda machines you know yeah they all have soda machines everywhere yeah you know and um you know and and the patients are getting you know just just sugary carbs like that that's it you know it's a lot of bread with jam fruit cups fruit juice that that is 95 of what these people get you know and like juice like that that court case ended a long time ago fruit juice is right up there with like coca-cola yeah yeah well and and some of them raise fruit juice yeah and some of them even worse you know i mean there's like there's certain fruit juices that have have more grams of sugar per you know per ounce than coca-cola and it's just oh but it's good for you because it has vitamin c and like whoop-dee-doo you know you mix vitamin c in with your cocaine you know is that that this is good for you now it's like oh i'm doing this for my health you know it's like no you're not you know that's nonsense you know and uh and giving this people in the hospital i that bothers me so much and um you know these people are sick you know and like and uh i mean we've known since the 1930s that you know carbohydrates fuel cancer and the cancer cells taking 400 times the amount of glucose as our other cells you know from otto warburg nobel prize winner in 1930 and yet we are feeding cancer patients the vast majority of their yeah yeah yeah what the hell are you doing i often like i mean i did not take a single oncology class i've read a lot of cancer papers so i would say i have a working knowledge somebody comes to me and they're like hey i've been diagnosed with it i'm like hey like not my field however i usually tell people when i hear somebody say cancer is always fueled by by glucose and so if you shut that down like the cancer cells can't live and so i hear that all the time from people who are just reading biohacking information or health books like like yours or you know anybody's um and i say you know what it certainly depends on the type of cancer and i i've not read enough to say that unilaterally about all different types of cancer it sure seems that that's the case but i'd hate to be wrong on that subject so i tell them you know you're gonna have to look elsewhere for a more definitive answer because i just i just don't want to touch it but it sounds like you've read a lot more about oncology than i have is is that basically true like like i mean i also know that certain types of cancer are hormonal sensitive you know breast cancer for example it's sensitive uh so like the sugar is not the whole story but could it be it's it's a major major part and you know even though if things are due i think so yeah absolutely because it's you know it's you can have you can have different sensitivity sure you can have an estrogen uh sensitive tumor and maybe estrogen will will stimulate it to grow right but a hormone is not fuel exactly almost cause a cell to like divide it it's just giving you a signal and but if you don't have the fuel to grow you're not going to grow and so you know you can have you can have the estrogen but if you're limiting the glucose you're limiting the fuel supply it's not going to be able to grow and and so that's a major major bottleneck you know and so and and all the ones i know of um i haven't heard of any that don't follow that that glucose i haven't found that either and i have looked i have looked for some you know maybe there's a type of cancer that just likes fats or just likes proteins or what no they're all glucose fueled some some like glutamine as well but but not all of them i from my understanding all of them you know need this massive amounts of glucose you know because they're they're they go into a fermented fermentative state they're not going through oxidative phosphorylation so now they're having to ferment and that requires massive amounts of glucose because it's not as efficient you know you're not getting you know the 36 atp you know you're getting like two you know and so you just need tons and tons and tons of this stuff and so it's very very uh glucose-dependent jobs had pancreatic cancer yeah and you know how he treated it he self-treated it for right fruitarian all he ate was fruit and i don't give him that advice but like as soon as i heard that it was like that seems like the worst thing you could do absolutely like i don't know well it's not giving his body the nutrition that it needs to to function and fight this thing off properly and you know you're you're giving the cancer jet fuel you know i definitely would not recommend that to people but you know unfortunately you know he you know as as an intelligent and um you know accomplished man as steve jobs was you know he's still caught into this you know like people like what what the hell do i eat what's what and he and he was like he looked at this overwhelming bad information he had no idea how to make an informed decision because he had all he had bad information you can't make a good bad information yeah and um you know that's part of you know that's some of the things that you know like thomas solo talks about when we're writing about intellectuals and things like that they can be brilliant in their field and you know one of the most highly regarded experts in their field but then they go outside of their field and they still have that mentality of i'm i'm i know everything and i'm so great at everything and then and then they look at a little bit of information and they go you know completely down the wrong path but they have that confidence because they're normally right and they're normally of the authority forgetting that how many decades it took them to become an authority in their field and if anyone else stepped into their field just you know shooting off at the hip now they would shut them down be like you don't know what you're talking about and then they go into other fields and do the same thing and um and unfortunately they can get burned by that i'm not saying that you know steve jobs going around you know saying that he's an expert or anything like that but you can you can end up looking at something and hearing something about a month about a month before he died he said i i don't know how to treat pancreatic cancer but i know what i did was the wrong thing okay right okay yeah well yeah because he just kept every time he went to hospital like oh it's getting worse and worse and worse yeah yeah well at least he had you know had some insight into that and at least hopefully you know other people hear that and uh you know take that to heart yeah it's really sad you know i don't know who convinced him that that was the right thing to do um i believe he was he was into it earlier in his life so when he got sick he might have gone back to it because he was sort of a kind of like in the sort of rebellious hippie movement um in his early 20s uh and then also very interested in technology and and working uh in silicon valley so that was kind of his his setup so yeah when he got sick perhaps he he fell back on that way of eating which is obviously disastrous for someone with cancer yeah poor guy hopefully hopefully that's not something that that um you know gets a any more people but you know you do see you know and sort of the vegan influencers and the fruitarians and things like that oh this is so good for kansas so good for this whatever and people making these these really outrageous claims and uh and you just you have to imagine you know that this is that people are taking this up and really hurting themselves and that's it's a big concern of mine and one of you know one of the reasons i sort of got into this was because you know people are really hurting themselves you know by eating the wrong thing it's not it's not a little thing you know it's not just like oh they're a bit overweight now they're very sick you know and they're getting they're getting illnesses that they shouldn't have to have so they will like how about how about the people that eat a primary carbohydrate diet and just white knuckle every day with their hunger and they don't get fat so they think they're healthy just because they're not obese yeah but you're still a metabolic disaster yeah absolutely yeah and like i tell people out of fraternity brother say to me the other day uh jesus i'm diabetic he's a slim guy he says i don't get it and i said well you eat sugar well no no i don't i mean like at night i have like corn chips or yeah yeah yeah that's sugar yeah like just because it's not sweet doesn't mean it's the right thing to eat like it is and i i have been arguing for a while that carbohydrates don't fit the definition of a macronutrient you don't need them you don't yeah you don't well then they're not a macronutrient because the macronutrient is something you need to survive yeah you don't need it then it's not a macronutrient hey did you guys see um my interview with mano hanselmans no i don't think so yeah i i watched that just recently that was the bodybuilder we're talking about you don't need carbs to build muscle is that right right well he's a scientist he's been published all kinds of stuff he has a great book called the i think it's called the mindset of self-control um so he did a systematic analysis of i think it was 30 different studies on carbohydrates and performance and there's a couple of like sentences in there and he repeated them on on the on the i don't really have a podcast i have a show which i do like i don't know i say whenever i can which i tell people is once a week which is really more like once a month or never um i don't have unlimited time so but when something important comes up it's like i gotta interview this guy and i gotta get the video up so i did a falsehoods of fitness that's what the show is called falsely to fitness on carbohydrate recommendations in like meno said you really if you're athletic you can absorb maybe 15 to 20 grams that's it and anything else is unnecessary and will probably be stored as body fat and like that makes sense to me um as a guy who has a tendency of being hypoglycemic so i've never liked sugary stuff anyway because of that like i know when i started doing the hyperplasia protocol with the x3 so what that is is you want to precondition the muscles before the workout and during the workout so that the cells are more encouraged to split and become two cells so this is the closest thing we get to permanent muscle growth uh but you've got to do a couple things you got to volumize the muscle you have to exhaust the muscle and then you have to stretch the muscle to the point where you're in a significant amount of discomfort not pain right before pain like as much discomfort as you could do before you're like okay this [ __ ] really hurts so um i i didn't wait yeah yeah but i i mean it should be uncomfortable as i said when you're when you're stretching and so what you do is you exercise and you take some some glucose before the workout and drink a lot of water during the workout so you're volumizing all the tissue so you want you want the tissue to be taking in the glucose and letting all the water in as well because you're better hydrated and then as you're so this is you you remember maybe in the 90s people talking about bag theory like the casing around the muscle the fascia around the muscles one of the limiters of growth if you can stretch that muscle fascia out you'll allow for cell division i've heard some stuff about this when i started doing that i was having like 140 grams of carbohydrates because there was a few papers that just said you know you want to do you know like your half your body weight plus 50 or some [ __ ] like i don't know uh and and i i don't remember it because it was stupid research and it was very irresponsible and like every day i felt horrible like you know my hands were like this like like this is way too much and so i just started cutting it down i'm like okay this recommendation is just wrong and uh and so when i revise the book i'll be using meno's systematic analysis because it's really showing a very low level of carbohydrates to trigger that effect and but here's the craziest thing of all the things that were in there and a lot of it was not a surprise to me because i find no performance benefit at all from higher carbohydrate day i mean i've run some experiments i think people think they have like three snickers bars and they go to the gym they think oh yeah i'm gonna just break all my records no you're gonna do awful you're gonna feel awful um it's not performance fuel at all so here's the crazy thing he said there is no dose response for carbohydrates and any performance increase with statistical significance yes none zero so you can have five grams you're gonna have 25 grams you're gonna have 50 grams all of them do exactly the same thing jack [ __ ] for your performance now when it comes to growth and hyperplasia that's a different story but at the same time why are we so interested in in a something that's formerly a macronutrient that we're wondering what is it really there for what's it really in nature for and uh not performance zero performance i know you guys are not shocked by this at all but generally the fitness community and even a lot of like athletes like i've talked to head coaches of football teams i always tell their like former coach of the chicago bears would always yell at his players eat as much carbs as you can like that's your energy don't show up weak the shockwave yeah yeah it's a while ago i mean i talked to this guy maybe i don't know 10 years ago and like i had a lot of research that i read and on my hard drive and i'm like ah god i really want to correct this guy but he's a head coach i can't say [ __ ] so you know just like i mean carbo loading is a massive thing like you know i remember growing up playing sport you know be past tonight before you play but you never do better no i mean i totally agree absolutely yeah it's it's a it's a nothing thing it's just i think i think also there's a there's a tendency or desire in the fitness community to overcomplicate things and for there to be some sort of hidden magic recipe like you were talking about with i don't know glucose before you work out and go train and half your body weight plus 50 whatever like people love that kind of like counting and intricacy and there must be some secret um or something magic that we can do yeah it's gonna accelerate things and that's why i'm not getting great results it's like get healthy and train hard and train smart and do it every day and it'll work right but but also i mean they're getting told that you know training hard you know the the smart way to train and the right way to eat is you know the wrong thing you're eating that is the the traditional sort of uh top knowledge that you know you need to carbo load you need to build up your glycogen base and your in your muscles in your liver but you know as an athlete i always felt better when i a skipped that nonsense but b just didn't even eat anything the night before or the day of uh again oh yeah always go faster that's when you'll do better always always felt better you know i was thought of as like playing hungry you know it's just like well you know you know i'm you know i want to be hungry you know if i go i'm like instinctually i need to go hunt i need to go kill i need to go back to primal roots you know if i'm hungrier blood flow going to your intestines when you're in the middle of the game yeah exactly you want to go into your quads yeah traps to you know like you got to perform yeah yeah like what is the first thing a race car driver does when he takes his road car and puts it on the track shuts the ac off oh yeah why yeah he doesn't want energy going into that he doesn't want that extra belt turning wasting power going into his ac yeah yeah that's a good point mean thing yeah so so mrs beck's like how did you get into a carnivore diet yourself like how how long have you been doing this and what sort of brought you over to that because obviously yeah i'm glad you asked that question i think i have the coolest story yes because i mean hey every everyone came to it from somewhere but um so i developed that x3 and i had always had i i mean ketogenic nutrition like i read dandy shane's book and uh i forgot what that was called but dandy shane's he only wrote one book and i'll think of the name probably in the middle of the night uh but uh i do that but he wrote this book that was like the most impractical information for fitness you could ever imagine a lot of it had to do with illegal drugs uh or like you know like he was really big fan of the caffeine ephedrine and uh aspirin combination which you know causes cardiac arrest in some so uh you know i i mean like you read and he would say that in the book it's like oh it does have a chance to increase chance of cardiac arrest and i'm just like yeah that's a great idea i probably i so i read this book right after high school and um simon you you said it like like probably i was probably at the age where i thought um maybe this guy's got like the secret information yeah because i think people do fall victim to that and so i read this guy's book and it was like one terrible idea after another yeah the last like it was all and it was all like hyper dosages of like crazy [ __ ] and like he says my philosophy is using any drug you can get your hands on that'll increase performance that's like the thesis of this guy's book they're making a documentary about this guy right now actually chris bell's making he's a it of mine uh great guy like it'll it'll be hilarious like everything that he does is really funny bigger stronger faster was so funny um so like the last chapter of the book was ketogenic nutrition and so i read that and i'm like well that's not crazy at all break a law to do that i can just eat and so i had actually been a ketogenic diet for a long time okay and uh but you know i still it was like i tested for ketones like you could get those strips you could pee on like years 20 years ago and so uh you know i looked at the ph in my urine and [Music] kept it pretty ketogenic but i really other than that one chapter in that one book and i didn't have i didn't have the scientific answers already so i i really came at it through like a a very open-minded manner like i'm going to recommend whatever nutrition because i didn't have a nutrition program i launched the x3 and people were like what should we eat for the best results this is like week number one like i launched the product on the dave asprey podcast and then the next week people a whole bunch of people went out and bought it and they're asking me what's the best nutrition program and i'm like well [ __ ] i better film something but before i film something i better think about what i should say because i really don't know so here's here's where i where i went like if you look at nutrition research you know or or talk to nutritionists if you talk to 10 nutritionists you'll get 12 different answers as to what you should be doing you know because so a lot of the same guys will tell you contradictory stuff and it's like but wait that doesn't make sense and they're like yeah it doesn't make sense to me either but you know i say both of these things so uh yeah amazing confidence i have in you guys so uh i i i decided to just back step and say like what are the greatest drivers of long life like in all all cause mortality studies is there anything that has been noticed of the people who live the longest now the blue zone thing is [ __ ] oh yeah yeah yeah you know what all blue zones have in common yeah no birth certificates oh yeah seriously there's just there's there's a study that is like all these blue zones like the only thing they have in common it's like there's no you know nutritional anything there's no secret root wait i'm not familiar what's the blue screen blue zone is where people live to be like well over 100 years old like yeah right yeah they're all lying because because the study says like the only thing that connects all these areas is they didn't have birth certificates a hundred years ago yeah so nobody knows when anybody was born yeah so we're just lying about it well yeah yeah and there's other problems with the blue zone studies as well that's something that the people ask me as well but like it's the the blue zone study was it was like it was five zones and they said well these people on average live longer than other areas and more centenarians uh than other areas and and the conclusion was that this is because they have a very plant-based diet so plants eating plants oh yeah so what happened was somebody would say i turned 120 today i see the agenda private aircraft from kraft foods would land and we'd have a dude with a briefcase of money i mean no i don't know this is the exact scenario and a video camera it's it's been pretty well shown that these guys ended up taking money from big food uh lobbies or companies and they would say like oh yeah i eat triscuits every day and i'm you know 120. yeah yeah yeah like none of that's true they've never seen a triscuit before but they got a big check yeah so yeah so that's that's really it's been a it's been a major point of vegan fraud um okay um yeah but it's and it's it's it's more fraudulent than that too because uh you know if you look at like okinawa's was one area like most of these areas except for like loma linda um which is a seventh-day adventist uh group and they know religiously don't eat uh meat and you know i think we've all sort of spoken about the history of that and why that was it was more to suppress people's uh um you know lustful feelings that was a sin and so they wanted to you know those people that ate meat actually were more you know viral and they were more uh you know wanted to procreate more so like oh that's bad we have to tamp that down somehow that's healthy no that's not healthy that's the opposite of that and um but the other ones they actually you know like in okinawa they said oh they eat these yams they're really mostly plant-based but if you actually look they actually eat a lot of pork and they actually eat more uh meat on average than the average japanese person you know so it's like so they you know they they their own results countered their conclusions and that and you see that you see that in a lot of studies you know that's why i tell people read the study don't just read the conclusion because you know a lot of the time you know the the conclusion is not supported by their evidence or is completely contradicted by the evidence i've seen that i've seen that before as well and um you know with loma linda they were saying that these people were living on average seven years longer uh than you know the rest of you know people in you know california and america and they're like oh this must be because they're vegetarian and um but if you look at mormon populations and in the same area they have the exact same uh longer life expectancy of seven years uh on average and you know they they whatever they want to eat you know and so they don't have any religious uh religious constrictions on their diet uh well what's a commonality there too they don't smoke they don't drink you know they're not going around you know doing drugs and partying you know they're they're they're trying to live a you know a clean life and so you know that's obviously a confounding factor but they don't they don't consider those in fact they they paper over them in the blue zone study so the blue zone studies like as you say it's just completely crap and it's just that you you cannot come to the conclusion that they did based on the information that they provided so back to simon answering your question what i wanted to find was what are the greatest drivers of long life and like i said throughout the blue zone stuff because that was stupid it was conflicting like i wanted non-conflicting stuff so there's only two things i found that are drivers of long life that are uncontested in research and number one was high levels of strength and muscularity like some said mass some said strength uh and then the other one was low levels of body fat well if you want to be as strong and as lean as possible there's only one thing you should be eating and that's animal protein yeah like just so to me the nutrition story began and ended right there i didn't need to read a single nutrition study to understand exactly what we should be eating because i just took a step backwards to where like people aren't screwing with the data like kraft foods isn't funding different groups to uh fraudulently say that crackers and cookies are really good for you yeah we just used to get these from the cookie tree yeah paleolithic area yeah that's cool so how long have you been doing this now for um bought 95 percent strict carnivore for about four years and i'm probably like maybe 85 percent carnivore before that for about ten years yeah i have no complications i have no issues i'm not low in any vitamins um not a deficiency nothing yeah yeah yeah um and and john what does it look like for you like what what do you eat do you love eating steaks do you eat two meals a day how does everything work for you um so experimented with one meal a day thing two meals a day uh and then going extended fasting i'm a big fan like yeah you like the fasting i've seen that yeah like you can draw a body especially dry fast like if you try dry fasting you'll never go back so no water literally no no water no food for like multiple days so i've done 72 hours i've done that uh maybe eight times 72 hours no water that that takes some it takes some focus yeah yeah i i mean like when you catch yourself daydreaming about a sip of [Laughter] like water did i get here [Laughter] like yeah but um there's great research there's a german study and a greek study that people went five days no food no water no complications whatsoever they urinated the same amount every day i heard you say that in another podcast that's that's unbelievable how can that be possible like water they're taking the water out of their fat cells which is destroying their fat cells so you know like you can't have unless you're really morbidly obese person you can't lose a pound of body fat a day this is actually a commonly searched fourth thing can i lose a pound of body fat a day three thousand well like cramming for an exam like this right right um or you know somebody has uh you know a wedding they're getting ready for it oh [ __ ] i'm getting two weeks away and i've got 14 pounds to lose so if i can just lose a pound a day right so like you can't do that with calorie restriction uh because there's 3 500 calories in a pound of body fat and most people are not big enough so they can have that much of a calorie deficit most people's basal metabolic rate plus activity is only 2 500. so you can never get there however in the dry fasting studies the two of them both of them went for five days they lost more than a kilo per day so yeah like like two and a half pounds per day now even in in that stayed even after rehydration actually lost more it's gonna ask yeah yeah it was a rehydration process your weight drops way down like i'll go three days and you know my body weight's down 14 pounds but then you know maybe maybe uh uh nine of it or eight of it come back quickly but the rest of it body fat is just gone yeah how does that affect um musculature as well are you are you losing any muscle mass as well or are you dehydrating the muscles out no no and i've confirmed that with dexa scans now the axis scans are ugly because you can take a dexa scan drink uh 32 ounces of water and it'll tell you you gained a pound of muscle so you got to keep that in mind so when when you do your baseline you have to be absolutely dehydrated all right okay and then rehydrate then do your dry fast right and again so yeah that's how you can really tell so john at what point on a fast do you think you'd start to lose muscle or how do you sort of see that working anthony if you're truly fasting i mean there's there's people out there that are doing fasting mimicking which is just [ __ ] they're just that low calorie diet uh yeah i see these like fasted bars and they're made out of like seeds and nuts fasting bars seriously yeah someone needs to be set on fire for them another giveaway well not fasting if you're eating whatever this is which by the way like the ingredients are like chocolate caramel nuts seeds and anthony talks about this a lot but it just makes it makes you more hungry of course yeah because you go back to glucose metabolism just go nuts like oh my god i need to eat something so um true fasting keeps growth hormone really high now growth hormone is not anabolic but it is an anti-catabolic so you don't if you're truly fasting you don't lose muscles yeah if you try and get away with like just having half a sandwich or something then you're gonna lose muscle because your body's trying to find a new homeostasis at that point it's like oh we're we're not able to get calories like we used to so we've got to adjust for this much lower number so that's the cortisol response and so you get rid of muscle and preserve body fat which is why like like bodybuilders who diet for shows they are massively struggling against their own biochemistry of their own hormones and uh you know they lose so much muscle before show like yeah these people are impressive when they show up at their show but they're way more impressive off-season and it's because the practice the practice of a bodybuilder's dieting before show with rare exception is really not scientifically what you should be doing now i'm not a bodybuilder never claim to be don't really know much about it i would never advise somebody who came to me and said hey can you help me prepare for bodybuilding show i like there's so much stuff i don't know about that like pyramid of drugs that go along with that i don't have a clue so i would um i wouldn't advise somebody on that but um the way they dye it down like the massive calorie restriction tiny meals it's just misery and they're losing muscle and torture torture yeah that was what um you know professor ben bickman uh from byu said when i spoke to him and he said that you know as long as you're you you're not like hectic and and um you know emaciated and you're still producing ketones like you you actually can't lose muscle mass your body is you're getting that energy from the ketones that you're burning from your fat cells and until you run out of that you actually won't burn your your um your musculature so that that makes sense from what you're saying you know and um and it's funny you'll be there are these studies starting talking about fasting mimicking diets and this has you know similar effects to fasting as well so now that's funny that they're now marketing this as a fasting mimicking bars and things like that you know that's just um and it's a bit it's a bit absurd i mean all fascinating diet is is a keto diet you know you're just you're supposed to be limited in low calorie yeah yeah so it's like you know and so a fasting mimicking bar with sugar and chocolate stuff like that i'm sure that's not even doing that because it screws up ketosis like once again i mean these bars aren't like 20 calories there's a study out there somewhere that like in a very obscure way mentions that if you have less than 50 calories that it actually won't break your fast which from a homeostasis perspective it makes sense it's not like the body's gonna be like well we got 50 calories so that's just what we're getting today that's normal like no it won't do that uh so like there there is some overarching logic that your body applies yeah yeah so i was going to say too um so hopping on to the to the x3 bar um i've been using this for a couple weeks now and i've just decided because i was you know i bought it last year and um i was pretty sick of like the gyms getting shut down and all the different sorts of whatever i'm like and actually was looking at this when the gyms first shut down it was like okay i need something in my house like normally when i was in seattle i had a i had a gym set up in my house and then i was in perth it was like a year later and uh and everything was shut down i was just i was pissed i was livid because i had like everything set up exactly the way i wanted it there i had no access and and so i actually looked into it at that time and um but uh i ended up you know just sort of trying it out last year um but just sort of just infrequently as it wasn't something that i was that i always did i certainly saw that you know it was a it was a difficult workout you could actually really push yourself and i really like that hardest work out of your life it is and it's yeah that's what dr baker started saying it's like i've never had a heart i mean the guy the guy holds like world records in the deadlift and he says that my system is the hardest workout he's ever had and i was like wow do you really i don't know that's helping me out sales went through the roof after he said that yeah a lot of people see a bar in bands and they're like oh that's weak you know i i'm stronger than this but then dr baker is telling him oh no my deadlift on x3 is 750 pounds yeah and they're like that thing holds 750 pounds in it yeah and i can put it in a backpack when i'm done yeah okay so apparently i was confused so uh yeah so they get it because of you know what what he said and so uh yeah it was certainly not the way i thought i should ever describe it but now i describe it like that yeah it is the hardest workout you'll ever do it allows you to train much further than weights can yeah because you're just going to a deeper level of fatigue like like the diminishing range so like when i'm doing a chest press movement like this this is my first repetition i'm holding 550 pounds so it's 550 pounds here about 300 here about 100 here so i'm going through this range of motion and it's super taxing at the top as soon as i can't get here well now i'm doing shorter repetitions until i can't do that anymore and then my last couple repetitions are just right here in the bottom so it fully exhausts every muscle fiber you have which is something you can never ever do with a weight yeah and i certainly noticed that and and pushing yourself to that extent uh you get you get a very very deep deep burn and uh it's hard though you know because you you have to have some like mental fortitude to be because it hurts you know so you're going and you're doing this and you get the point and that a lot of people do and they're like oh well that's starting to hurt and like oh i think it's that's good enough and you know the good enough guys and then like no no i'm gonna go until you know i'm bleeding out of my eyes guys you know those that's really the difference and and so i noticed that with this i'm able to do that and i think it's is good you know i use it infrequently before just because you know i wasn't in the habit of using it and i just said you already know what screw it i'm just going to do it just 30 days every single day i'm just going to do it you know come what may and and i started you know videoing this and putting it up and i haven't been this consistent putting them up but i'm still videoing them so they'll they'll be out but it was it was actually really good that i did that because it it made me like not not uh you know be a little [ __ ] and so we're all waiting for the update yeah that was it so i'm going i'm doing this thing or whatever i'm like oh it's really like that's killing me and i'm like i'm on camera and you see me sometimes look at the camera i'm like [ __ ] that's there like all right let's just like keep going i notice that like when i do that and i really go to the point where i'm just kind of just geeking out just like you know half an inch sort of things at the end it is absolutely you know you know a great workout i've i really noticed that and so um you know one question i did have though uh obviously you know you feel burnt out on the one set but you know you is is there an advantage to like maybe later in the day coming back or like giving a rest and like trying to do further sets or or is that not really advantageous now you really want to stimulate and then let protein synthesis happen it's like you know like uh you got a lot of sun in australia how many sets do you need to do in the sunlight to get a tan yeah one yeah once and then that's it yeah and in fact if you go out multiple times you get blisters yeah that's right yeah you need to heal first before you go out and give it another crack right and the same thing happens to muscle like okay you've seen micro tears in muscle and falsely we thought that that had something to do with growth muscle damage is inversely related to growth so you want the muscle to be fatigued but not damaged and it is the multiple sets and also the loading in the weaker range of motion that causes that damage now and also they noticed that marathon runners had more damaged quadriceps than people who would compete at the squat like well then how come they're not bigger well because damage has nothing to do with growth inversely related the more damage you have the less you grow okay so tax it to the maximum extent and then leave it alone 24 like all out one set with the diminishing range and the constant tension and then when you're done just you're done you you got 48 hours before you hit that the body part again and protein synthesis is usually concluded within 36 hours okay okay you just want to make sure that all the growth happens and then you stimulate again so is that so would you would you recommend taking that 36 hour breaker oh so so yeah so you want it you want to you got a gap let's like 48 hours so like waiting 48 hours fits a lot better on a calendar than waiting 36 hours because you don't want to have to keep up in the middle of the night to do like yeah chest presses yeah yeah so don't don't try and time it for 36. also 36 was the average so some people may be a little longer some people may be a little shorter so you know wait 48 hours and then you can have three growth periods per week yeah because you gotta think about you stimulate and then you're gonna grow more than you will from a regular weightlifting day but you get three of those growth periods every week because you're splitting the body two ways and you have six workouts yeah yeah yeah yeah like that's um yeah i'm certainly interested you know i i tried taking like my weights before and i really should have you know like you know measured you know chest and everything like that but more mostly i think it's just how i feel and uh you know my my repetitions are like steadily going up um you know even you know on alternate days i'm you know i'm i'm getting better i'm feeling better i've also noticed that um you know something that i i've seen you talk about before obviously there's no sort of ab component to it but you know how that you know cores are our stabilization muscles this you need those stabilization you get your yeah yeah and like so you know i've definitely noticed that as well that like it's um it's something that um uh you really have to have a lot of control and and so you know that that comes a lot of the the stabilization muscles in your core and and elsewhere that force you to to keep this under control because it's trying to it's trying to move on you and you know and so you have to you have to be able to control the weight and the tension and weird angles that your your body's not necessarily used to and you have to and you have to learn that and incorporate that should be but yeah for some people well i think also the last 20 years have given us a lot of machine training yeah which means we lack the stabilization firing to keep like a weight balanced over our heads yeah you know like we need to build that back yeah people were like well this never happens on my machine presses yeah also those are like trying to get a tan with candles like you're not doing it it's not giving you what you think it's giving you yeah yeah yeah definitely um and you have uh i have a short board just the normal bar as well is that is there an ad sorry that's the better one this there's the better the short ones better well it's the standard like it's not well here it is yeah you know it's 20 inches wide the wider so people like the wider bar because they do a wide grip like chest press but that's like the people who do a sumo squat they're basically just cheating while screwing up their hip joint uh sumo squad really screws up your hip joint i think uh hip joint surgeries in the united kingdom are up 700 percent because of what they call the crossfit squad which is really just a sumo so yeah um yeah so a wide grip you have a shorter distance you know if i grab out here i'm i only have to go well maybe a foot off my chest to complete the repetition which seems like it's easier but it's so incorrect for joints okay and i mean hey if you're in a competition and the competition allows things that are damaging to the body so that you can break the record or whatever which makes me sort of question some of the rules and powerlifting uh but it allows for that so um you know that's that's that sport so okay that doesn't mean is what we should be doing um so yeah the people who want to take a wide grip i say you know the wide grip is for your ego it is not it is not going to it's going to stimulate less growth okay you know now so many people wanted a long bar and hey there are there were there were guys and there's a lot of guys in the nba that use x3 and they're just screaming for the long bar i kind of get it with them uh what's a wide grip to me would not be a wide grip for um andre drummond who plays for the pistons who is almost seven feet tall yeah wow oh it's huge like so yeah it's like that bar i just showed you looks really tiny on him yeah so yeah i mean but but he doesn't even grab out to the ends of the of that bar he kind of grabs it you know more like in the middle yeah so is there is there a proper hand placement because when i'm doing these things i find that my hands are actually inside my shoulders um is that okay or do you want it like a little wider out as well like that's what i was thinking you know like for the chest press i'm always grabbing on me you know kind of on the outside of the knurling like right here which is about matches my my shoulders okay that's the most efficient place also remember i mean to get the most involvement in the pectoral like you want the humerus bone to come as close to the midline as possible yeah well if you're out here that's the opposite of that you have less pectoral involved so a wide grip chest press is pretty much all tricep anyway yeah so the closer your hands come together the more squeeze you're actually getting into the pectorals you're activating more of the pectorals okay yeah all right and then i i'll never be photographed using the long bar people like oh we'll show us how to use it and i'm like you make a video because it was one of those things where like people wanted it so bad and i told them no you don't want this and insisted like no no we do you want to listen to your customers but you also want them to succeed yeah and so it's like a balance so i came out with a long bar and there's some giant people who love it there are some ego lifters who love it and you know [Music] i'll just have to pray for them later then there's other people who are like god damn it you were right this thing is just not as good as the original it's great and of course you can get the longer bar and still grab it in the middle right not like not allowed to do that so uh you know but people were like yeah i got it and like you were right the original was better okay yeah very cool all right so when people are starting out with it with the xp three bar or they're trying this out what are some are there any sort of beginner tips or things or pitfalls or anything like that that people generally run and run up against that uh can be helpful to sort of uh yeah i tell people watch the videos we send you watch the instructional videos it's a very simple and elegant product but don't just pull it out of the box and see what you can figure out on your own typical men i can imagine uh don't read the instructions yeah who would do that i would never do that yeah unfortunately it's true of just so you gotta actually watch the videos yeah you gotta yeah out of it there's some people who to watch it just pulled it out of the box and looked at there's like a card that shows you the pictures of like you know the up and down position of a squat and stuff like that and they'll try and figure it out from there and they'll you know maybe get 85 percent proficient but they'll miss some stuff like that's mentioned in the video so i tell people like really watch those videos like and you don't need to watch them all the time because you commit them to me probably collectively like 20 minutes of video for like the whole thing like everything you need to know about your exercise will be giving you in 20 minutes so take the 20 minutes no don't yes yeah nice yeah yeah i like it um all right anthony if you've got any more questions or or um i need that's uh yeah i think that's that's covered all of it yeah anthony thanks for getting up this early in the morning yeah yeah i know that is good of anthony it's 60 gem in perth he does it regularly i think our last one either it was super late in my day or super early in my day i don't remember which i think it was the other way around yeah i think i think maybe yeah maybe was it sort of yeah it was a little later for you in the day but it was like way late for me yeah yeah hey australia and the united states do not have accommodating no yeah well probably i'm glad we're able to figure it out though like uh yeah i don't mind getting up a bit early and that's not it's not a big deal i'm up uh stupid early normally anyway so that's uh it's it's good for me because i you know get this done before i go into work and um and uh and then i'm i'm able you know not the the other side of it is like especially like west coast time it's like it's like midnight before you know anybody's uh really able to to hop on um you know for me because like you know midnight is like 9 00 a.m on the west coast so midnight for me at 9 00 a.m on the west coast so it's uh probably a bit easier for me to get up a bit earlier so john where are you based in the states in california okay yeah it's a place where we it's beautiful but we pay too much in taxes for uh from what i've heard yeah like this expensive place to live yeah and unfortunately california voters don't seem to be getting any smarter because they're voting for the same people who are ruining the state and then they complain the state is being ruined yeah it's yeah it's um it's a bit confusing you know that you know that they um uh you know you you vote for policies that that don't really help and then you complain about the effects of that policy and then you keep voting for that policy the same people who are writing stupid legislation or then go to other states you know that don't have those problems californians move to other states and then screw those other states and then they're like oh what happened yeah yeah yeah i thought there's a bit of animosity in in austin and miami about all the californians moving in there's like plague rats just going around all over the all over the place just like bringing disease everywhere they go and i'm from california i grew up in cal in southern california like that is that is my home state and i absolutely love it there but it's um you know and unfortunately uh it's getting more difficult to live there you know for a number of reasons and hopefully that that turns around because obviously you know california is a lovely place and um and then people are just trying to be people and live their lives but it's uh it's getting much more difficult at the moment so hopefully that that turns around anyway um but john thank you so much uh for coming on i really appreciate you taking the time um and this is really great hopefully we can do it again as well and talk more uh shop about the uh exercise physiology and and uh and how to get people actually fit and healthy you know because that's all part of the whole paradigm you know like eating right exercising moving your body and just being healthy and being able to stay strong stay healthy mentally and physically for the longest longest possible period as well so i appreciate you uh taking the time with us thanks guys absolutely thank you so much john all right have a good day thanks see you guys [Music]