How Big Pharma Turns Patients Into Customers for Life - Dr. Jason Barrett

[Music] Hello everyone. Thank you for joining me for another episode of the PlantFree MD podcast. I'm your host Dr. Anthony Chaffy and today I have very special guest Dr. J Jason Barrett who is going to come and tell us his story. Jason, thanks so much for coming on. >> Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it. And uh yeah, so if for people haven't come across you before, can you just uh tell us a bit about you and and how you how and why you sort of came ac carnivore diet? >> Absolutely. Yeah. So I'm like I said, I'm James. I'm from Oklahoma. Uh and I was born and raised here. I was born raised on a farm actually. My dad's a cattle rancher. Um I've been I'm a pharmacist. I've been a pharmacist for over 15 years now. And so it um that's giving me a unique angle for for part of my story here. Um but when I was, you know, uh probably around the age of 27, that's when I had just been the pinnacle of health. Everything was going great. I was graduated. I was already been a pharmacist for a couple of years, married, everything, you know, and all of a sudden out of nowhere, I start getting just these crazy symptoms, you know, and now, albeit I was eating a terrible diet, you know, I was I was standard American diet all the way and and, you know, newly married and we were, you know, eating desserts and and and I probably wasn't working out near as much as as as I knew I should have. I've been athletic my, you know, I played American football, uh, growing up from a small town and that was like, I mean, the heartbeat of the town was, you know, Friday Night Football, you know, and then on Saturday you're watching college and on Sunday you're watching the NFL and I mean it was just part of it. And anyway, you know, when I get out and now I'm in the workforce and I'm I'm, you know, basically sometimes I'd call it a cage cuz in the winter months, you know, as a pharmacist, sometimes you're going in if you may be working a 10 or 12 hour shift standing on your feet the whole time and you're going in basically before it was, you know, it's hardly daylight and by the time you get off it's dark, you know, and you may work two or three days in a row. You're not getting any sunlight. you know, and um and so yeah, I mean it kind of from this from from all of that, I think it kind of manifest that I was not in a good metabolic state and then some problems started to arise. >> And I can go. >> Yeah. And so, well, you know, if you're comfortable talking about it, what are some of the things that you saw and how did you come how did you figure out how to fix them? You know, was that was that uh you know, was that pretty obvious that you saw people go carnivore and did that or how'd that happen? >> Man, I wish I I wish it would have been that simple. God, I wish I No, it was a hard it was a hard long battle to be honest with you because um I'll just get give you the the rundown here. So, what it first manifested as is I had some some dental stuff going on. And so, I ended up going to the dentist, getting some dental work done. And immediately when the numbness wore off, I could tell it was like a high tooth. Like, it wasn't my teeth weren't flush. And that's the first time that's ever happened to me. So, I didn't, you know, I didn't think it was that big of a deal. So, I called back down there and I'm like, "Hey, this tooth is like not aligned properly or something. Can you guys, you know, can I come back in and you take a look at it or whatever?" And they were like, "Well, I can get you in like two or three days." And I'm like, "Okay, well, so I dealt with it." And that was problematic, you know, cuz every time you're when your teeth when you bite, trying to eat, trying to talk, anything, and one tooth is just hammering in one spot, it starts to get painful. And then what you don't realize is when you're sleeping, you're you're going to start grinding and your your your jaw is going to go crazy trying to adjust or whatever. And so by the time I got back in in 3 days, they like kind of brushed it off. They were like, "It's not that bad. Like, we'll grind it down a little bit." it and they kind of did did some adjust some bite adjustment or whatever and they said, "Oh, you're good." Well, within weeks it started hurting really bad and it and it actually turned into basically full-blown TMJ. And at this point, they're like, "Okay, we can't help you now. We're going to refer you to a TMJ specialist." And I'm like, "Well, that's great." You know, like I came in here for just a teeth cleaning and now I'm going to a TMJ specialist. Well, I get down here and I'm completely like naive. Like I said, I've been healthy my whole life. Never had a problem. Didn't even have a PCP at this point. And I go in and I'm like um telling him what's going on. And he's like, "Okay, well, what we're going to do is we're going to inject some Medrol right into that joint." And I'm thinking, "Oh, is that that's stand? Okay. Well, uh, is that going to fix it?" Yeah. Yeah, that'll be great. Okay. So, boom. Right in my face. Medall. And it did help. I I'll give him that. >> Okay. for maybe two or three days, you know, and then all of a sudden I could feel the tension. I could feel the inflammation, whatever you want to call it, coming back, the tightness. It's very debilitating. And um anyway, I keep going back and forth with this guy. He's giving me multiple medal injections and he's doing other stuff. It's not getting better. It finally gets to the point where I can't open my mouth even to fit my finger between my teeth. >> Um I couldn't even eat a banana comfortably. I lost a lot of weight. I wasn't sleeping well. I was in a bad mood. Honestly, I had, you know, chronic fatigue type feeling and mental fog. And I was just it just wasn't it wasn't fun. And but I was still going into work and working these, you know, uh just working a full-time pharmacist on top of of dealing with this. And anyway, run that forward for probably six months to year. And I mean, I it finally it got to the point where my jaw wouldn't open. And then when it would it was when it would it would since the TMJ was so locked up it would like go to the side like it would open and go over hither this way like all crooked and well now I'm like embarrassed to even talk to somebody because if I open my mouth I look you know like my face is is all jacked up and so then it started to kind of affect me emotionally and and mentally and everything else. Anyway, long story short, I was like, "Okay, you know, we something's got to give." Well, we moved back to Oklahoma shortly after that. That was down in Texas. And when I got back up here, he was like, "Okay, well, I'm glad you're moving to Oklahoma because there's actually a really good TMJ specialist that we'll take care of you." And I'm like, "Okay." So, I go start seeing him. And and he was completely different. I'll give it to him. He was like, "I don't believe in steroids. I'm not doing Medall. we're not doing that crap. Um, he was like, I'm doing all natural stuff and we're going to use appliances. Okay. So, he ends up doing like prolotherapy and PRP and all these different therapies that they do in the TMJ world, but he had a daytime appliance and a nighttime appliance that I had to wear. And he was very adamant and strict. He goes, "Hey, these two appliances, you can never go without these in your mouth. Like, you can take it out to brush your teeth. Don't let your teeth touch. Put it back in. go to bed with with it with the nighttime one. Soon as you wake up in the morning, you can take it out, brush your teeth, don't let your teeth touch, put the daytime one in. You have to eat with it in you. It doesn't matter if you like it. It doesn't matter if it's comfortable. And I So I did for like three years straight. I'm dealing with this TJ stuff and wearing these appliances. Every time I'm eating it, food's getting all stuck off in there, you know, nasty, you know. So then you got to take it out, clean it out, put it back in. It tastes like food, you know. It's it it was just pretty brutal. Well, you know, and and I was to a tea doing exactly what they said to do. And the whole time I'm kind of getting sicker, but I'm just focused on the TMJ cuz it just it's what's screaming at me. You know what I mean? The whole time I'm gaining weight. I'm in the worst shape of my life. Like on a physical, mental, every sort of level there were there was. And it was it was affecting my relationships. It was affecting everything. And anyway, one day I'm sitting there eating lunch and I bite down and it crack. It cracks all the way down and my teeth touched and I like panic, you know? So I'm like, "Oh my god, I dropped my lunch. I go pick up the phone, call him. Hey, I'm at work. I'm eating lunch. I just ate I just took a bite. Y'all told me to never let this happen. The appliance broke and now my teeth are touching." I'm like, "Do I need to just drop everything and get in there and y'all fix it?" And they were like, "We'll get you in in 3 weeks." I'm like, "Okay." So, okay. Well, in that case, you know what? I just took it out. I was like, I'm not even gonna wear it, you know? I mean, and lo and behold, now at this point, I had also um I I guess I should So, since my symptoms had started getting worse, I finally did get a PCP. And I go in there and I'm like, "Listen, I got this TMJ, but it can't be the only problem. I'm like I've got It's like my whole body is pissed off right now. I don't know what's going on. I've never had these problems." He's like, "All right, let me run a bunch of tests." So, he tests me for limes and tests me for, you know, just standard stuff. And after he's done, he's like, "Man, I you know, you're coming back pretty clean." He was like, "The only thing I can see is you got a little bit of hypothyroidism, so I'm going to give you some thyroid medication, and since you got the I had like numbness and tingling in my hands and feet." He was like, "Since you have these neurological symptoms, I'm going to refer you to a neurologist." Okay. So, I go to the neurologist. neurologist does his battery a test and he's like, "Man, like you're strong as a horse. It's not like he's like, "I know you're having neurological symptoms, but I don't think it's a neurological nature problem." Um, so there's really nothing I can do. He's like, but I'm going to refer you to another specialist. And I'm thinking, geez, okay, where now? And he's like, rheumatology. That's where the circus really began. I had never I had never been to that circus and I didn't know what I was walking into, let me tell you. And you talk about, you know, getting the pharmacy thrown at you. Um, you know, when I got in there, they started me off obviously on steroids on medrol. And since it was, and it was massively helpful. I'm not going to lie. It brought the inflammation way down. That's when I first got the first clue. This is inflammatory. I didn't realize it was systemic and chronic and all that stuff yet. But, okay. So, we got a good response. That's a good sign. Now, we're getting closer to the diagnosis. So, we're we're getting there. But he goes, "But it's not going to last forever." So, what I'm going to do is I'm going to put you on some insaid. So, I went through every insaid there was all the way up to the nasty ones, you know, including like endomethasin and all these. And they kind of sort of reduced the symptoms, but not really, you know, but they always either didn't work, I was getting worse, or you know, my liver or something didn't like it. So we she's like, "So then we start trying all the demars and methtores and all these other things." And I tried those and again either the liver hated it or bad side effect or it just didn't work. And he goes, "Okay, time for the big guns." And I'm like, "What are the big guns?" And he's like, "We're going to start you on imm." And I'm like, "I know what that Are you sure?" I'm like that it's that severe like we're we're all the way there like cuz that that's a pretty big gun. You're right. And he's like, "Well, yeah, we've tried pretty much everything else." So, uh, he was like, "I really think this is going to help you." And you got to understand, I I'm a pharmacist, you know, like I I spent a lot of time and money acquiring that degree and learning exactly what he was doing. So, it's not like I'm going to sit here and be like, "No, we're not doing that." I'm like, "Yeah, it's okay. It's probably going to work or, you know, at least kind of give my life back in some way." So, at this point, I'm on Embil. this is the day that the TMJ or the the appliance broke. >> And so you got to keep that in mind. And that I will say when I got on those on Imbrell um that was definitely by far the most powerful effective thing that they had done from top to bottom, you know, with all the different drugs they had tried. And I of course I was naive and I'm thinking okay like if I can feel like this then will I just stay on imbro you know I you know but in the back of my mind I also know that it's going to make any infection I get it could become very severe. Um it's going to increase my rates of all kinds of cancers because it's suppressing my immune system to where it can't even do its job amongst other things. you know, it's causing a lot of uh and also I didn't realize that it being an antibbody, you know, your immune system literally will create antibodies against it to make it lose effectiveness over time. And so that's what happened. We get about 6 months out and I'm like, "All right, I'm not feeling good." Like even with this shot once a week, you know, um it's not doing anything. So anyway, when that breaks, this was when it was still kind of working and I'm like my jaw doesn't hurt. like I can't believe my I'm not. So then after a couple of days I'm like I'm going to stop wearing the nighttime one too. It never came back. I'm eternally grateful that for whatever reason that TMJ um and maybe it was from wearing those appliance cuz he did tell me it was going to change the structure of my face a little bit and it did. It's not super noticeable but you it did. And now that I when I have patients coming into the pharmacy that that uh will tell me their TMJ stories, I can see that it could have been a lot, you know, like I've seen some that it's it's there's a it's it's a clear it's deformed their face. >> Um and so I'm I'm I'm I'm thankful that it went away and it was just minimal. You know what I mean? >> Problem is shortly after that whole bunch more now these drugs even the embry's not working. Okay, let's switch it to hum. Let's switch it to coentics. Let's switch it to Zeljans and O Tesla. And I went through this. I mean, it was just and the whole time I've got like whack-a-ole freaking symptoms. Every time I think I've got one under control, boom. So, all of a sudden, I've got like the worst cervical pain I've ever had in my life. Not it's not in my jaw anymore. And it, you know, and I've talked to several, you know, some people have speculated that maybe it was from the the adjustment of the jaw that put pressure on the I don't know. Anyway, my neck was killing me. And on top of that, I had rheumatoid fingers. You know, three or four of my digits were swollen at at the joints. I had soratic lesions on my on my arms and on the back of my scalp. I had sacriitis. I had bilateral ankle swelling. I was chronically fatigued. I was overweight. I couldn't sleep with the crap. And that was probably the worst thing of all, not being able to get restful sleep. Because when you are so sleepd deprived that you know you could probably hibernate for like 2 weeks and still be behind and you still can't get a good night's sleep because you're in so because you're in pain and you like my neck was killing me and everything. It just got worse. Like everything got worse and before I know it I'm just like a zombie trying to survive, you know? And so finally after years, you know, probably six or seven years of dealing with that, I'm like I tell my rheatologist I'm like, "Listen, refer me to the Mayo Clinic. This is whatever we're doing ain't working. Like I am the most compliant patient you've ever had. I don't know if you believe me. Maybe you don't, but I am. I'm I'm a pharmacist. I have no reason not to do this, not to take this medicine as prescribed. I'm doing everything in my head right, and I'm only getting worse." So, so he's like, "All right, well, I'll refer you." So, I go all the way to Mayo Clinic. I drive up there, spend a week up there. I'm, you know, poked and prodded and tested and I'm basically a lab rat and they're doing all their different things. And this was the kicker. I get to the I'm sitting in the the waiting room with the doc at the end and he's doing uh he's dictating into the mic and he goes I'm at a disadvantage because this patient comes with a prior diagnosis of ankylosing spondilitis and I just about came out of the chair on this guy. I'm like are you serious? Why do you if you do think that why aren't you saying it to where I can hear you say that? And anyway, he stuck by. He goes, "But he does have sacroyitis and so we're just going to stay there." And I'm thinking, if I would have known that, why couldn't you just send me a letter and go, "Oh, we're at a disadvantage cuz you already have a diagnate. You would do your battery test. You're the best doctors in the world, you know, in the nation or whatever. You're going to find what's wrong with me and that way I can go, oh, ankylosing spondilitis was wrong." But he didn't do that. He he he said that and so I'm like kind of defeated and I'm like we come back home and I'm like well at least he didn't say I didn't have it so I guess I'm just going to accept that that's my diagnosis and even that when I when you go back to when the first rheatologist gave it to me there was no definitive nothing that was like this is what this guy has. It was more like okay we got like 14 different things here and you've got like eight of the 14 so we're just going to call it ankylosing spondylitis. Well, so anyway, two or three year more more years go by and the cervical pain is absolute it's getting worse is kill it is by far the chief complaint. It I can't think it's just like a knife stuck in the back of my head, you know, and I'm just going to my normal uh I was going to just a nurse practitioner, you know, for like PCP purposes and for like allergies and so I go in for like flown and she's like, "By the way, is there anything else I can do for you?" And I just jokingly I'm like, you know what? If you can fix this pain in my neck and I don't want opioids like do I don't want pain medicine. I work in that setting. I see what I mean. I I don't want that. It's not the cure. You know, it's it's it's masking a symptom. It's not the cure and it's all there's a host of other problems that come with it. And so I said, "If you can do that, I will buy you 10 steak dinners. Like I just you tell me or whatever you want." And she's like, "Well, let's do some imaging." And I'm thinking I've done like 500, you know, MRIs and CAT scans and X-rays and all this. And she's like, "Well, let's just do another one." I was like, "Okay, let's just do it. I got nothing to lose." And um so I go do it. And lo and behold, like the ne it was either the next day or two days later, I get a call on my cell phone while I'm at work and I don't recognize the number, but it's a local number. So I'm like, "Okay." I answer it and it's her calling me from her personal cell. And I'm like, "Are you calling me?" Okay. Is it is there like what's going on? And she was like, "Well, I just wanted to get in touch with you as soon as possible." And I was like, "Okay." She goes, "Okay, well, I don't want to scare you, but" and I'm like, "Too late." Like, you already too late. Uh, she said, "I don't want to scare you, but I got your imaging back." And listen, I'm not a radiologist, but even I can look at this scan and see that at C1 and C2, you have significant erosion. And I'm like, "What is that?" Like, "What do you mean?" And she's like, "Well, I don't really know like what's causing it, but you essentially what what we can see on this scan is that those two joints are those two vertebrae are getting real thin." And she said she said, "This is the reason I'm calling you." She said, "Is because they're getting thin and and kind of brittle." And she said, "I'm afraid that if you take a hit to the head, whether you're roughousing with your kids or playing basketball or you get rear ended in your car or just hit fall over or whatever, she said that could fracture." And she goes, "This is the problem." She said, "Just like with the the difference between a paraplegic and a quadriplegic depends on where it happens on the spine." She said, "Let's just let me just put it this way. Respiration is clo is controlled through C3." And I'm like all of a sudden I'm like, "Are you saying what I think you're saying?" And she's like, "Yes, that's why I'm calling you. I've already referred you to a neurosurgeon." She was like, "Don't no roughousing, no sports, no nothing until you can at least go see him." And I'm like, "Okay." So that was like, I mean, honestly, that was devastating news. I had to call my wife and tell her what's going on. I got three three little boys at home, all under the age of five. You know, I'm the the the provider for the family, you know, and all that. And so all these thoughts are going through my head. And so anyway, I go see the neur the the neurosurgeon and he does more imaging and he confirms he's like she's right. Uh that is exactly what's happening. You have significant erosion. He's like I'm I don't know what's causing the erosion. He said normally when you get all this inflammation around this area uh it'll actually the body will naturally fuse. And he said but in your case it's eroding instead. And I'm like okay so what do we do? He was like, "Well, normally if it's farther down, like, you know, C3C, C4 or below, I can go in, I can do a nerve block, and if that gives you relief, then we can go back and do an ablation, and you're good. Like, it should really help you." He goes, "Problem C1 and C2. There's it's just there's it's just the central nerve. Like, there's no branches going off." He was like, "I cannot ablate that one." And I'm like, "Okay, so what do we And he goes, "The only other option is an extremely invasive surgery that is going to come," he's like, "I can guarantee you it's going to come with a ton of collateral damage. U there's going to be new pain that you didn't have." And he said, "And you're going to lose 100% you're going to lose 90% range of motion up, down, left, and right." So, I mean, like, you know, I'd have been like this. And I'm like, "There's no chance we're doing that, doc. I don't know what you're talking about." And he's like, "No, I wouldn't even suggest it." He was like, "It's actually just a last resort. like if you just continue to get worse. I'm like, "Then what do we do?" He said, "We wait and see. We wait and we do imaging every so many months and if it gets worse, da da da, if it gets better." And I'm thinking, "Are you freaking kidding me? This is the best we can do, you know, like what the," you know, and so anyway, that was my rock bottom. And I go back to the rheatologist and I tell him, I'm like, "Hey, you diagnosed me with ankylosing spondilitis. is this? And I, you know, he had they shared the images. I said, "Is that ankylosing spondilitis?" Because everything I've read about it, that doesn't seem like that's what that is. And he goes, "No, that's classic RA." And I'm like, "Oh, then what is it?" He goes, "And then I showed him the the lesions on my arms and the back of my scalp." He goes, "That looks like seratic arthritis." And I'm like, "What? I have three different things. What do I got going?" He he goes, "Well, they're all close cousins. We all treat them the same anyway, so it doesn't matter." And I'm like, this is crazy, you know, like I'm I I can't believe the failure that I've encountered from the very beginning. And you know, now I'm almost a decade into this thing. >> And so this is when I finally got desperate. And at this point, I started doing all kinds of of different things. I started fasting. I started doing crazy diets. I tried vegan. I tried the autoimmune protocol. I tried the low the no starch diet. I I tried cutting out my night shades. I tried keto. I tried and and on some of them I did get some a little bit of relief, but it was far from gone, you know. And so anyway, I'm like, I'm dying here. So around this point, I um I I'm trying to remember what I think I had gotten on keto and that was the best relief I had gotten so far. And so I had kind of just stuck with that. I was still suffering, but it was more manageable. And at this point, I don't know why, but I just was like, you know what? Do or die. Let's go. I'mma opening my own pharmacy. So, I quit my corporate job and I opened my own independent pharmacy. And and that was in July of 2019, six months before a global pandemic. Uh, didn't know that was coming. That was fun. But I'm glad I did because when I did, um I had a couple of customers that were driving 45 minutes away to get some like neutrautical products um that they just swore by and they were like, "Hey, we're tired of driving an hour and a half to go get this stuff. Can you get it here?" And I'm like, "Sure, let me look into it." So, I go fill out the application and I'm able to order this in. And all of a sudden, I start getting, you know, well, I had the rep for this company, the neutrutical rep comes in and she she's introducing herself and she, you know, she's talking a lot of big game stuff here, you know, and she goes, "By the way, I've cured like a couple dozen people of RA." And I'm like, "You do not know who you're talking to, woman. Get out of here." So, I said, "All right, you got a business card? Give me a business card. I think I got some people you can help." And so, she's like, "Sure." Bam. So, when she leaves, I go back. I type up a whole email. I'm putting I put my whole story in there. I tell her it's somebody's grandpa. And I'm like, "Where does grandpa need to go?" And she's like, "Oh, he needs to go see this doctor, you know, up in uh another city in Oklahoma." And I'm like, "Okay, so you're not actually the one doing it, but I mean, if you're pointing people in the right direction and they're actually getting relief, okay, that's fair enough." So, I book I I find this clinic. I book an appointment. I'm skeptical as hell because of some so many failures that I had had, you know, in the in the medical system. Uh, and so I go up there ready to just do the whole go through the the meal again. And he does the normal lab work, but he also does two he was like, "You know what? Your your story." I told him the same story I just told you and he's like, "You got a complex story." He said, "I want to test you for for one more thing." And I'm like, "What's that?" He said, "I want to do a food sensitivity panel on you." And I'm like like a serum uh test and he's like and I'm like oh what like wow I mean like I you know how many different doctors I've gone to all including the Mayo Clinic and not a single one has ever said that sure why not let's do it. So we do it and I kind of we got the normal lab work back like two or three days later and it that was what was frustrating is my lab work was clean as a whistle but I had like physical symptoms and I'm dying. I mean, it just I hated it, you know. So, anyway, it was like two months later, I finally he gets the results for my food sensitivity panel and he sends me an email and you got to understand the first visit I had with him, it was just it was he was real cordial, real professional, everything. And his opening line in the portal message, he goes, "Holy you are allergic to everything, man." And I'm like, "What? What are you talking about?" So I clicked the thing expecting a one pager. It was a 17page report and it goes through and I mean it went through all so many different veggies and fruits and legumes and and your proteins and all just everything. And then it breaks it down and it gave it like it it did like IGG and C3D for like your different pathways where you could be you know allergic. And then it would it gave it a numerical value and a color coding. And I'm like, "This is intense." And um and then I look at the the chart and it's like, "Okay, it's basically like a green green yellow red like a stoplight. If it's red, you can't have it. If it's yellow, eh, might be problematic. Probably remove it and then try to bring it back. If it's green, you can have it all day long." And he goes, "I would suggest starting with the uh the less restrictive diet." And I'm like, "Okay." Well, I'm like, "Less restrictive?" And I go down and I'm like more restrictive. I'm like, doc, you don't understand. I'm so desperate. If you told me to stand on my head and drink vinegar through my nose three times a day, I would do that with a smile on my face. I'm doing the more restrictive diet. Forget this less restrictive diet. Well, I look at the more restrictive diet and I couldn't believe it when I looked at it because it was basically telling me to do carnivore. like I was literally allergic to there was like maybe one or two veggies that I that I had never even heard of. So that's not something that I had ever eaten. Um and then like one or two fruits that again were kind of exotic. They're not it's not like an apple or banana or whatever. Like it was I'd never heard of them. I'm thinking I've never heard of those. I don't have any desire to try to eat those. But the rest of this is just like animal proteins and fats and okay. And so I had heard of the carnivore diet and I'm like that is the craziest diet I've ever heard of. Like I'm going to die of colon cancer. I'm going to be constipated. I'm going to have all these problems, you know, and I'm like I got to find something out about it. So that's when I went and looked up the carniv I just googled carnivore diet and Sean Baker's, you know, doc Dr. Baker's book pops up and I'm like, oh, it's written by an MD. Okay, well let me get that one. you know. So, I read that and I'm I mean that thank God I I had that because by the end of that book I'm like, "All right, I don't think this is going to work, but I told my wife I was like, I'm going to do it for 30 days. We're going to find out." You know, and um and then it kind of, you know, I lucked out because I called my dad and I'm like, "Hey, dad, he's a cattle rancher, you know. Um I just got this food sensitivity thing and it says that like all I can eat is is is meat basically. can you hook me up with some good beef, you know? And yeah, I got like a 100 pounds of beef and and then of course I was eating every I wasn't only doing beef. I was doing basically my whole goal was just to stick to the diet. So I was eating, you know, anything carnivore, whether it was even if it was like processed meats or whatever. I was, and I'm not kidding you, by the second week of that diet, I felt the inflammation going down on the inside cuz I could feel it, you know, at this point. It feels like you're on fire. They named it right. Inflammation. It feels like there are flames in your body. I felt them going down. Uh, more so than even Imbro, more so than any of the even the big guns in just two weeks. And I I looked at W and I'm like, listen, I don't know if this is just like a fluke deal, but I don't think there's any way I'm stopping this diet in at the end of 30 days. I was like, I guess we'll find out. So anyway, we get to 30 days. Hell no, I'm doing another 30. Boom. I do another 30. Then after 90, I'm like, I'm doing another 90. And then after 90, I'm like, I'm doing another 6 months. And so I did a whole year of strict carnivore. I mean, I literally on my birthday, I didn't have a cheat meal. Like like, but I mean, that's how desperate I was. I was so desperate that I mean I if anything would have worked, you know, if it would have been the opposite diet, if it would have been like a vegan diet, you'd be talking I'd be I'd be sitting here saying, "Oh, vegan, you know, but that didn't work. I tried that. Um, I could not believe it." And then that one year, I took a picture on the first day, not knowing I was going to be taking another picture in a year. In that one year differential between those two picks, this guy lost probably 50 to 60 lbs. put on a ton of I got more Yeah, I started working out again because I felt like working out. Like I wanted to work out. It wasn't like, "Oh, I gotta go work out." It was like, "Let's go, you know, and then I could sleep. I wasn't in pain. I was recovering. My mood was better. My relationships were getting better. I'm feeling good, you know, and all of it." And so anyway, I get to the whole end of that year and and then, you know, I I'll just go a little bit further here. That basically gave me the ability to grab the bull by the horns and tame that sucker. So, after probably a little over a year on it, I decided, okay, I'm going to try to reintroduce just to see what happens. I'm just gonna try to reintroduce. Didn't go well. Didn't go well. I mean, I I didn't reintroduce a whole lot. Um, and honestly to this day, it's now been almost 6 years since I did that. Um, and it's it's still the best diet on the planet. I mean, it's I you can't get me to you couldn't pay me enough to shut up about it. Um, even now if I try to bring something back, like if it's on an anniversary or a holiday or something and I try to sneak something in there, I can I I just now if I do it, I just kind of know it. I know I'm doing it and it's gonna bring pain. It's going to bring inflammation. My body's very weird around that. And it's kind of a delayed onset thing. If I eat it today, no problem. I feel great. And then the next day, not as good. But by like 48 and 72 hours, oh my god, I've already put on 7 to eight pounds of water retention and just I'm puffy. I'm I'm not I don't have the energy, my mood, and you know, I can feel it. But if I'll stay clean and jump right back on that horse and get back on strict carnivore, and I even have a Bluetooth thing on my thing that connects to my scale, so you can literally see it go whoop up like seven or eight pounds, stay there, plateau for about 3 days, and then whoop, fall right back down 7 to 8 pounds 3 days later. It's so weird. Um, but since then, you know, have me trying to bring that stuff back and failing multiple times, I finally what what dawned on me is like I'd have to sit there and go, is this 3 to five minutes of pleasure of eating this cookie or this cake or whatever it is that I'm tempted to eat here, is it worth the price that I'm going to have to pay for the next 3 days? And finally, I just said, "You know what?" Looked at my wife and I said, "You know what? Nothing tastes better than good health. Nothing. Like, I'm done. And so, that's my story. Uh, carnivore absolutely saved my life. You wouldn't be talking to me right now because I mean, back when I was sick, I just I wasn't me. I I I was I was a zombie. >> Well, it sounds like it sounds like a very rough road. Unfortunately, that's probably very common story that people have, especially dealing with autoimmunity. when you have one autoimmune condition, you often have multiple autoimmune conditions and and their life just gets worse and these things build up and build up and build up and then you know even even the the the autoimmune protocol AIP diet um people can can get benefits from that but I've never seen anybody improve. But what is that doing? That's an elimination diet too. You're cutting things, right? And so it's that principle is that certain things that we're eating are eliciting these responses in our body, right? So if that's if that's the case, then can we really say this is an autoimmune condition that our that our bodies are attacking itself? Well, why would it why would diet affect it then? And that's why a lot of rheumatologists be like diet doesn't matter because this is your body just attacking itself. Your body is sensitized to your your immune system is sensitized to parts of your body as if it were an infection and it's just going to try to kill it like it does an infection. But this it should not be possible to affect that with diet. And yet people are doing it by the by the millions around the world now. U which suggests and and like you said, you know, you you've had this it's an N of one, but it's this is an N of one that's been repeated hundreds of thousands of times now that you get rid of all these these things out of your diet. Your symptoms improve. Not only do your symptoms improve, but your actually condition improves. You can actually track your different biomarkers, inflammatory markers, and even um antibodies will start to improve as well. I I track that in my patients all the time and I see that and so they are improving clinically and objectively and then when they add when you add back in something off off plan all of a sudden problem comes back antibodies come up your inflammation comes back your pain comes back your symptoms come back and then removing those things again you get the relief and so that right there to me is is I mean at least in your case at least in all the cases that I've seen that have had the same pattern then That means that the food is causing the disease >> and you reintroduce it, the problem comes back. You take it away, the problem goes away and you go back and forth like that. And so it's it's very empowering at that point instead of just going, okay, what are the drugs? What are the injections? What are the pills? What are the things? you know, because you your your issue was not from an from an imbal deficiency, you know, it's not like your body just didn't make enough humor that day and then that you had a problem, you know, >> right? >> And, >> you know, so that that's just that's just sort of playing catch-up and and and treating symptoms just like the opiates, right? And so being able to find this, I mean, that's that's root cause. That's a root cause of the situation, >> which is which is exactly what we're supposed to be doing as as medical professionals is finding the root cause of the issue. Eliminate that. If we don't have any idea of what the root cause is, we can treat them symptomatically, but you always go for root cause, but unfortunately, we've we've >> gotten out of that. We have we're not trained to look for root causes anymore. we're trained to just, you know, it's it's sort of it's it's like a it's like a second grade, you know, vocabulary test. It's just like here's the word, here's the definition, here's the problem, here's the pill that goes with it. You know, you just draw a line. And I've actually seen that in some medical schools. Literally, it'll have like a list of issues and it'll have like the medication that it goes with it. >> Oh, I'm Yeah. >> Write of wine. It was just like I thought this was medical school. That's like something I did in in kindergarten. like what the hell is this? You know, so but yeah, it's um you know, that's how we're trained now. And unfortunately, that's not real medicine in my opinion. It's not going to get >> it's not it's not and and honestly, I mean the whole if you' to have talked to me before I ever went to pharmacy school, like why do you want to go to pharmacy school? And I think probably hopefully everybody that goes into healthcare, it's because they want to help sick people get better. And me being 15 years plus into this profession, let me tell you, that's not what that and I talk to my colleagues pretty often on this to see if I'm the only one that has this opinion. And I'm far from it. In fact, I've yet to meet hardly one that doesn't. We get out and you start dispensing these medic. You know, these people, they come in and they they have this problem. They go to the doctor, the doctor gives them a pill, they come in, you dispense it to them. Well, three or five years later, they're still taking it every day. They're having to go to keep going to the doctor, keep coming picking it up. And you know, I walk out there and go, "Hey, how you feeling?" Like, "Is this working?" And they're like, "You know what? No, it's not like I I wish it was." And I was like, "Well, what's going on?" And I mean, and some of them, they'll go in for one and before you know it, two or three years later, they're on like a dozen or half a dozen or six or eight or whatever, you know? And now and they all have different side effects and they have drug drug interactions and they can affect you know acidity of the stomach and absorption and they can cause other deficiencies. You know how they work. And so it's it's not just those. It's like a whole complex web of problems and they are stuck in that web. Like they're it's like a spiderweb. They're just stuck. They don't even know where to go. They they're going to where they think they should go and it's not making them better. And and then when I became the patient that was in that web, gez did it turn it did did it change my perspective, you know, because I mean I would have adamantly argued with you very strongly for the medicine because that's what I learned. You know what I mean? had I not had to go through that and had to challenge my beliefs and also had to challenge stuff like the other thing that's sneaky with the food stuff is like you may have eaten it for 30 years and had no problem and then all of a sudden your gut gets compromised or whatever something happens and it gets into the bloodstream and like you just said once the immune system sees it's like a vaccine you know if it if it notices something foreign ine it's going to make antibodies you what's going to happen the next time you eat that food you are going to get decimated and it's not autoimmune. The body didn't just wake up and go, you know what? Screw this guy. We're just going to attack him. It's it's because you're putting that problem you're you're you're putting the trigger in there every day. And sometimes, I mean, it might be the healthiest thing. Like the day before I got that food panel, I remember I was thinking, what did I have for lunch yesterday? And the day and I was trying to be healthy, you know? I had a salad with spinach, uh, lettuce, asparagus, tomatoes, I think some black walnuts, some olive oil, and and then it had some grilled salmon on there. And I, you know, and I mean, it might have been like a I don't know, 3 400 calories. I was definitely trying to be on a calorie restrictive diet and do all that. And um when I go and I I go find every single one of those things on that on that report, the only thing that was okay literally was the salmon. I mean, it even told me lettuce. Like I'm allergic to lettuce. I'm like, how can you be allergic to let are you kidding me? There's not even any calories in it. Like this is crazy. And so that was what was so conf, you know, I would have never found it on my own because it was right under my nose and I had probably eaten it for 25, 30 years. and never had a problem. I would have never suspected that to be the problem. So, that that's you're right. I think there's a lot of people that are that are suffering and um not not getting those answers. And that's really that that's that's what I'm trying to do is is help. Uh and now now that I have my own pharmacy, if I see someone come in, especially now, I can I can see the medications that they're on. So, I can oh, I I can tell what their diagnosis probably is or whatever, and I'll just go out and have a conversation. Hey, how you doing? and they'll tell me, you know, and and then they'll share. They're they're pretty open because they trust, you know, I feel like pharmacists are pretty trusted and they'll tell me and I'll just be like, "Hey, just so you know, like I have a very similar story to yours. Um, this is what hap this is what helped me, you know, try it if you want, you know, don't if you don't believe in that or whatever." And I, man, I've probably had a few dozen at least just transform their lives because of that information that they weren't going to get if they just went to their doctor, you know. So, that's my mission now is to to help more people. >> Yeah. Well, that's amazing, man. And you know it it it is good because you know coming from from a pharmacist or a doctor or a nurse or or you know physical therapist or a chiropractor. I mean these are these are pe people that are in in positions of authority and trust and they have a lot of influence and so people come to them for their their health um you know their health issues and having someone who a has lived it and said look I this is this is was my life you know 10 years ago and and it wasn't fun and it gets worse um this is what helped me a that's really impactful because just through just your personal story But coming as a pharmacist, that's much more impactful. He's like, "Oh, this is this guy's, you know, mainstream trained. I mean, he's not going to be tell he's not just some some weird dude that had did the carnivore diet like a psychopath. You know, this is actually look into this stuff." And um you know so that means a bit more and and and you have a far reach because you're seeing a lot of people coming in and and uh so you'll you'll see a lot of patients and people that are unwell and then you're in this position that they're going to listen to you and and so that's really good. It's really great to see more uh you know health professionals uh get involved in these sorts of things because you know we have such a such a wide range of influence on people and uh >> and so that's that's really important whereas like you know anybody doing this I mean just people around them and they see that in their own individual lives it's like hey this really helped me this can help you that has a huge impact in these these groups go out you know I'm sure your family and your friends and people that have has started to influence them as well. But you see sick people and they come in and they're specifically the ones that can that can benefit the most from this. Um and so that that has a huge impact as well. And so it's great to see more and more uh clinicians and um and you know medical health professionals, pharmacists getting aware of this stuff because we're the ones that have the greatest impact with sick people because they're coming in to see us. >> Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. It's I mean because like my the whole reason I even got into pharmacy is because when I was younger my my my younger sister uh she I think she was 6 years old. I was probably 11 or 12 and she went down hard, you know, and she was lethargic and she was drinking seemed like 20 gallons of water and peeing 500 times a day. And it turned out they took her to the hospital and she had she was a type 1 diabetic. And so at a young age I got to sit there and and watch the insulin you know that she was using. And in that case it was getting you know like it was addressing root cause because you know the pancreas isn't working properly. She can't make insulin. And so I got to see that and then I also had to see how the nutrition played in because depending on how many you know carbs or whatever she was going to eat. This was back before they had the fancy insulins. they had to like calculate out the units on the, you know, the the the N and the R insulins to make sure that they could control it. And so that's why I was like, wow, that is crazy that like that one little vial and her injecting it is the difference between her laying on the floor and walking around like a normal human being. That's what got me into it to begin with, you know, and then whenever I got in and learned that there are a few there are a few that are root cause and that those are not the ones I'm talking about, but most of these are targeted to just mask or reduce symptoms and not ever address root cause. the root cause is it can just fester in the background and these people are actually getting sicker and now they're needing now they're seeing five doctors instead of one and that root cause is that inflammation is what's causing every single one of their problems you know and yeah so it it's it's huge and I I I wish more and more people could just give it you know find out about it and give it a 30-day try at least you know >> yeah well I mean 30 days is is is enough to get a lot of this junk out of your system. Really reduce the amount of inflammation and start to see that your life can be a lot better and a lot different. Some some people, you know, you really need to sort of stretch it out to three months, but 90% 95% of people will have dramatic differences by the end of 30 days and to the point that, wow, this is this is really this is really something. And then they can make a decision on whether or not they they want to continue that. But you get you keep getting better and better and better and better as you go. your mitochondria start improving expanding my you know their their morphology changes you the mitochondria do a whole bunch as as you know but for the people listening you I mean these things fuse into like super mitochondria they can split up they can multiply they can be they they do different things in different tissues and different circumstances to affect different changes in your cells they run your cells they don't just pump out energy they move around and turn things on and turn things off and so they're very very complex effects and and and you and after three months you have four times the number of mitochondria and they're four times as effective on a ketogenic diet after three four months on a ketogenic diet. But that continues to improve two three years on is when you sort of get that maximal um >> Yeah. Yeah. I believe you there because like I said even even after a whole year I was still gaining new benefits that weren't there at months six, seven, and eight. You know what I mean? So yeah, you're 100% right. >> Yeah. and and six one six seven and eight you were >> yeah you thousand times better than you were >> a thousand yeah like if that was as good as it got I was happy because I mean that you got to understand TMJ's gone my neck doesn't hurt at all like at one point my neck was so painful and stiff I couldn't even if I got my truck to like back out you know I couldn't even turn my head to look I had to if you were sitting beside me I had to just turn at the waist to see you know my whole body and I just got used to doing that literally for years and now painfree three like I I'm in disbelief even to this minute that it's gone. Um now I will say, you know, even within carnivore and I'm I'm sure you've heard because I know that there's several people that are that are in my boat here, but I did over the the next few years I did have to whittle down even within carnivore. I had to cut dairy. Uh, it took me a while to finally give that up because I just I love dairy, you know, anything dairy, milk, cheese, yogurt, all day long. Um, but when I when I do a run without it and then I'd bring it back, didn't matter, you know, sometimes I'd think I was getting away with it for a few days and then um, not only that, I don't do as well on pork as I do beef. I I'm phenomenal. You know, beef is king. Um, and then on smoked meats or like uh meats that have been cured or anything like that, I I definitely had I was still better than non-carn, let's be honest. But if I wanted to be as good as I could possibly be, it was basically I found out it was the lion diet. Just beef salt water. Just beef salt water, you know? >> I mean, that that's the real autoimmune diet, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. like the sort of the autoimmune protocol. It's it's a lion diet. That's that's the best is of the best. You you cut out everything that can cause harm. And um you know that that's a normal thing. That's a very common thing that people find. I mean I I just feel best on on ruminant meat anyway. You know, beef and lamb like that. But for auto but I don't have autoimmune conditions or unless they were subtle enough that they never really got diagnosed. But um no, not that I know of. But other people that do have autoimmune issues especially, it's that ruminant meat that really makes a huge difference because it the ruminate meat they they have that complex digestive system. they can ferment and break down even more of the toxins and so less of that stuff can get into the meat especially when they're being fed plants that they're not designed to eat or glyphosate ridden plants that they're not designed to eat because apparently I've seen articles uh showing that that um the rumination process the ruminant digestion can actually break down glyphosate which is interesting because glyphosate is an antibiotic and so you you would imagine that could actually damage the the bacteria in the gut of a cow and things like that. But I haven't seen that >> um at least in in in news articles. I haven't actually seen like a study that's sort of shown that. But and I've seen a couple articles saying that ruminant um digestion can break down glyphosate. And so e either way, this is breaking down a lot of stuff. And so when you're eating pork that's not pasture-raised, and it's very rare that that is. And even if it is pasture-raised, quite often they'll still have to give them feed. Um yeah top of whatever they're doing unless they have massive track of land. >> Right. Right. >> Um they but you know if you're feeding them soy and things like that people seem to typically have worse problems with the soyfed pork and all that sort of stuff because they're not going to break this stuff down. They're not going to ferment it. They're just going to absorb it and then their liver has to sort of break it down over time. So people see seem to have more problems with that and I think that's because more of these toxins are sort of slipping through their digestion, not being fully filtered out, but but again much much better. Um and uh so that's pretty typical. You know, I was going to say you we were talking about the your sister being a type 1 diabetic. >> Yeah. >> And and yeah, if your body is not making insulin, you you need to replace that insulin. That that is >> right. >> That that's root cause. like you get your you have damaged thyroid or something like that and you don't produce thyroid hormone. Okay, so that's that's a thing. But just like thyroid hormone, sometimes there's something damaging your thyroid, stopping your thyroid from working. You remove those things, they go away. There's a whole category of plant toxin called gurogens. Uh kale is full of them. They actually had to stop giving them to livestock because it caused goiters and sheep and still births. And then the milk and dairy cattle that were given kale, the people that drank the milk were getting goiters, right? So, >> and then they just said, "We'll just feed them directly to humans, you know, like >> Yeah. So, like I mean it's it's just it's just insane that they can put stuff in the human food supply that is absolutely not fit for human consumption." But, oh yeah, as long as no one has proven it's bad, shove it in. It's completely backwards. It should have to prove that it's safe before you put it in. >> Thank you. Yeah. Or I mean like have what's happened in the last 30 or 40 years in America. Is that not proof enough? I mean to the average population, is that not proof enough that something's wrong? >> You know what I mean? >> Absolutely. Yeah. And we and and we have the grass who generally recognize it's safe and it's the industry that gets to say like, "Oh, no, no, this is fine. Everyone every everyone considers this as safe and the FDA just goes, "Sure, great." >> Yeah. >> Buddy, that's your job. Your job is to to actually say, is this safe though? You know, right? This isn't something that's been in the food supply. You know, hydrogenated vegetable oils never existed in nature, so they could never exist in the food supply. And yet, 1911, uh, Proctor and Gamble pumped Crisco into the market having never been fed to humans before in history because it didn't exist in, you know, much longer before that, right? And then you know canola oil and grape seed oil and all these other sorts of seed oils again that have have highly processed industrial I mean there are pressed seed oils and things like that that go back further but I'm talking about the highly ultrarocessed industrial >> things and um those did not exist and so and and so putting those in the food supply that can't be grass it can't be generally recognized as safe because it was generally recognized as didn't exist a second ago. So, how can it be recognized as safe? It didn't even exist. So, you know, all that is completely backwards. You should absolutely have to prove that it's that it's safe before you put it in. Um >> agree. Yeah. >> Um Yeah. But now it takes decades. I mean, you know, uh trans fats, you know, I mean, that that took a century, over a century. It only it only got banned in like fully in 2020. Trans fat. >> Yeah. It hadn't even been that long. Yeah. >> 1911. They've been they've been on the market since 1911, right? >> I didn't realize that. Wow. >> 110 years, right? Crisco first came on the market in 19 1911, right? And um before that that it was um it was machine lubricant for tanks and and submarines in the German mil. and Proctor and Gamble bought the the um technology to to hydrogenate veh seed oils from the German military and and then just started feeding it to people like absolute maniacs. Paid the American Heart Association equivalent of $20 million back in the 50s to just pull out of their rear ends that um Krisco was heart healthy and that butter and lard their direct competitors were uh bad for your heart. That's where this heart healthy fat comes from. It's completely made up. It was based on no evidence. It was just they just they just came out and said, "Oh, this is good for your heart." And they're the American Heart Association, but they weren't any >> they were just they were just a few cardiologists that try to make a make a little group. And then they just said, "Okay, well, we can get a whole bunch of money and then we can do whatever we want." So they their origin story was a villain origin story, not a hero origin story. They right origin was being bought and paid for. And that's what what I was going to say is this is what was behind it. Yeah. It it was it was dollar bills. I mean it was very profitable to do that, you know. >> Yeah. And and so they got they got paid straight away and you think that oh well now we we got paid off once. We don't ever need to do that again. Now we'll do good stuff for people. No, they they kept getting paid off. >> Oh yeah. Oh yeah. >> I mean they they misrepresented the Framingham study. They lied directly and said that the Framingham study showed that higher cholesterol uh was associated with higher um cardiovascular mortality rate. In fact, it was the opposite. The Framingham study showed prove positive that the lower your cholesterol was, the higher your cardiovascular mortality rate was. And yet I was taught, I'm sure you were taught and everyone was taught that framing study showed higher cholesterol, higher cardiovascular mortality rate. >> Oh yeah. lie the American Heart Association lied and misrepresented that um and and came out with that two years after the Framingham study completed and yet that's what made it into the textbooks you know and right but think about that why is it that we were taught Framingham study which is a prospective cohort study right it's not experimental right so you can't show a cause and effect relationship you can only show correlation never causation you cannot prove causation from correlation. And yet we're only taught this correlational study that was lied about and misrepresented. But let's say that it that it didn't lie misrepresented. That was the correlation. That's still a correlation. It's not causation. >> Still correlation. Yeah. >> Why weren't we taught the causation source? Because that's that's all that can do is is generate a hypothesis, right? Okay. And then you and then you test that hypothesis with an experimental design study and you try to actually prove yourself wrong. You try to, you know, you try to, you know, um, you try to say, how can I design this study the best to try to to disprove this idea, right? Because then then, you know, if you can't disprove it, it's pretty solid, right? >> There you go. Right. >> Why weren't we taught about those experimental studies? >> That is an amazing question. I >> because they exist. There's never been an experimental design study that has shown a cause and effect relationship between cholesterol and cardiovascular disease. Never. >> Shocked. >> But there has been at least five large-scale randomized control trials in humans with thousands of patients. One 9,600 patients in the Minnesota coronary experiment, randomized control double blind placebo study in institutionalized patients in either in uh jail facilities or in mental health facilities. So they could control every single meal and no one knew what they were getting. They were getting a normal diet for the 60s and 70s, omnivorous diet, but one had animal fats and butter and the other had vegetable oils and margarine. >> No one knew who got what. And what they found in this experimental design was >> you replace the animal fats with vegetable oils and margarine, cholesterol did come down and more people died of heart attacks and strokes as a result. And that's been repeated four other times. And yet we never never got >> right. Right. Right. With the Minnesota Coroner experiment, it was it it we wouldn't have been able to get taught that because we went to school before 2014. And even though the study was done, >> right, >> between 1968 and 1973, that didn't get published until 2014 because they buried it because they were being paid by the sugar companies. Anel Keys was the main researcher on that. That's why Minnesota coroner experiment. he was in Minnesota and so that was he was the lead researcher on that or at least one of the lead researchers on that and he was just like shut it down bury it and >> but since it's been debunked like why are there not sweeping changes why is this not like headline news and we're there you go there you go >> why you make headline news right either you're you're you've done something politically um that either goes strongly with the conviction of that channel or strongly against the convictions of that channel and they do some sort of sensationalized oh my god you won't believe it or you get paid. So the food and drug companies when there's a when when OEM Empic came out this was all over the news. Oh my god this is amazing. Do you think that that was because it was just a revolutionary drug and this is just changing the world for the better? Or was it that the manufacturers of Ozepic were paying millions of dollars for these people to run stories and they were already the lead advertisers for these for these channels and they were saying you need to pump Ompic and then you have, you know, person that's on the payroll for the OMIC company going out saying, "Oh yeah, >> obesity is is genetic. you know, you know, people that have obese parents, 80% of the time their kids will be obese. So, this is just genetic. There's nothing you can do about it. Diet and lifestyle just doesn't work. You know, exercise and and diet just no, it just doesn't work. It just doesn't work. And it's just like, well, that's cute, seeing as that the obesity rate now is 42% in America and 100 years ago was 1.3%. And in the 70s and early 80s, it was 8%. After World War II was 6%. If it was genetic, it would you would not have any of that variation. >> Exactly. Well, and and and even I mean one of the the more alarming stats that's out now is just the rates of pediatric obesity or type two diabetic. Did you know type two diabetes as a child? Are you kidding me? As a child >> and that can't be genetic, you know, I mean like they're that's a that's a new thing. >> And you know, when we were growing up, you know, type two diabetes was not called type two diabetes. It was called adult onset diabetes. I remember the change in the 90s. I watch the news program. They're just like, >> there's these kids that are getting adult onset diabetes, but they're 10. How can a 10-year-old get adult onset diabetes in the name? It's adult onset diabetes. Right. Right. >> This kid's getting it. And and the kid also has fatty liver disease, but only alcoholics get fatty liver disease. It wasn't even called alcoholic fatty liver disease. It was just called fatty liver disease caused by alcoholism. That's just what it was. And now there's a kid who's never had a drink of alcohol and yet he has fatty liver disease. And so instead of thinking about this for one second and saying, "Okay, what changed this? What changed in the environment?" They said, "You know, it's probably happening all the time. We just didn't notice it because we're all retarded." And this is like doctors just can't see anything. And so obviously this was just it. So instead of thinking about what happened, they just renamed it and just said type two diabetes and non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. So they didn't use their brain or any of their education for even one second. And and then we perpetuated that and we said, "Okay, no, no, we've all seen this." But then you can do that once. You can say one time, okay, maybe we weren't paying attention. But now you are because you just said we weren't paying attention. Now we're paying attention. Great. So why is it that the type 2 diabetes rates went up from the 90s to the 2000s, 2010s, and now the 2020s? And why is affecting younger and younger and younger populations the entire time? >> Well, and and and not just I mean all kinds of you know, so many different things are coming from these metabolic origins. you know, Alzheimer's rates and cancer rates and autoimmune rates and obesity and I mean the list goes on. All all your different things. Something is going on, you know, but it's they're not ringing the alarms. They're not like they're not calling for sweeping changes and or at least it's not happening, you know. It's it's these beliefs are deep. When you have a conversation with someone, I mean, you bring up a ribeye, oh, I'm going to have a heart attack tonight. You know, you're like, no. You don't understand. >> Hey guys, just want to take a second to thank our sponsor at Carnivore Bar. I don't promote many products because honestly all you need to be healthy is to just eat meat. For those times that you're out hiking, road tripping, or stuck at work and you want nutritious snack that is just meat, fat, and salt if you want it, the Carnivore Bar is a great option. So, I like this product not because it's just pure meat, but also because I want the carnivore market to thrive as well. And the more we support meat only products, the more meat only products there will be available in the mainstream. So if this sounds like something you'd like to get behind, check it out using my discount code Anthony to get 10% off, which also applies to subscriptions, giving you 25% off total. All right, thanks guys. You know, and and that's the thing, you know, we didn't see, you know, when when the Minnesota coronary experiment got published in the BMJ was the top top journal in the world, you know, British Medical Journal. >> Right. Right. that was from a from a doctor at the NIH, National Institutes of Health, Dr. Ramsden. He found that this study had been done. They actually published um a an abstract for this in in the n oh late 80s, I think. Yeah. Like 87 or something like that. 17 years after this thing got finished, right? So, um >> yeah, >> and and they took Anel Keys named off it. He's like, I can't be associated with that, you know. And um and so the other other ones said, "Okay, hey, we did this, but they just published the abstract, right?" uh which is what happens when somebody else paid for it and they said you're not allowed to publish this you know you might get the abstract out but that's it and 17 years after the fact and Ramston found this in the 2010s you know and um and said like hold on a second where'd that get when that happen that guy had passed away that lead researcher but he but his children were now doctors and two sons and if and he talked to them and they actually found all this data in boxes in their dad's old stuff in the basement and it it was like on punch cards, right? You know, so it was like it was so old that it was um you know just the beginning of computer data collection and um and so they got it extracted and they had an independent statistician take a look at it and that's what they found. Double blind placebo control study double yeah and um and um and that's what they found. Those are the results. And that was published in the 2014 uh BMJ. And um but that was the thing. But they don't have, you know, a multi-billion dollar ad budget to say, "Hey, let's get this out there." It's just it's just the science. And if you if you and it's the data, and if you don't keep up with that, you know, I mean, I mean, I'm sure it's the same in in pharmarmacology, but in medicine, you are spoonfed your education certainly throughout your degree. >> Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. after the fact, >> you know, when you go, you have reps coming in, you're going to conferences, you are getting a very curated look at the current literature and and the new publications. These are all sponsored by the food and drug companies. You know, the diabetes American diabetes association is sp like main sponsors are are the processed food industries, the Coca-Cas, the Nestle's, the Pepsis of the world, right? I don't know exactly what their sponsors are, but they are in that category and the drug companies. And so this will be your curated look at the data is what they want you to see. And so a lot of people the only research they do uh or how they stay current after they finish their residency uh in medicine quite often there's a lot of people that are much better than this but I see it all the time that basically the only sort of new studies they're looking at is when the drug rep comes in on Tuesday and buys everybody lunch and then says hey here's the new study and here's the new this. And I I literally I was an intern there was um there was a um a physician she and she just got so excited. Oh, I love Tuesdays. I love Tuesdays. And was just like why? Free lunch or like what? It's like no no it's research day. I was going to learn new research. It's so great. We just learned about all this new research. As like do you think that that's like the research wing of the hospital or something like that? Like that's a sales rep. They're going to talk about the study and the research that helps them sell their drug. >> Exactly. 100% of the time, right? And so, >> no one's doing that. There's no drug rep in hell that's going to come out. There's no statin rep is going to come out and say, "Hey, look at this. This completely upended this. Don't buy statins. You know, cholesterol does not cause heart disease. Isn't that great? Let's let's go and better the world." You know, that's not what they're there for. And we need to recognize they are there to sell a product. And so we cannot look to them um you know to to go for root causes. They they know we know they don't. I mean be you know Goldman Sachs said you do not um address root cause because you you never try to cure someone. That's a bad business model because you know a patient cured is a customer lost right >> you want you want to have treat symptoms for decades and for their whole life so that you make money off them forever. You know it's just like you can't buy windows anymore. where you have to get a bloody subscription. It pisses me off. Makes me want to throw my computer, you know, because they just they just want to milk you every single year instead of, you know, like planned obsoles for cars. You know, it used to be I mean, there are still Model T's driving, right? And yet, you know, the first car ever to go on the road is still usable if maintained properly. And yet, you can't get a Buick whose bumper doesn't fall off after year three. It's like, why the hell is that? You know, we've got we got space shuttles going past Jupiter. We got the Discovery, you know, going in. It's just like I mean, and seriously, you you can't you can't make an engine that that that lasts more than 100,000 miles, 200,000 miles before the thing blows up. That's complete and utter garbage, you know. >> Oh, they could. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's even kitchen appliances, you know, if you got something that was made back in the 80s or something, that thing will probably still be going in 2080, you know, but you go buy a new one now. Oh, by 2027 you you're going to be going to get a new one. >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So, these things just are are built to fail. It's called planned obsolescence. And that's that same model has been transcribed into medicine, unfortunately. >> So, we're >> Yeah, you're right. And it it's almost like, you know, kind of when you look at the big the three the three bigs, you know, big big food, big pharma, big insurance. I mean, how much money is going through that thing? Because I mean, if you start with the food and that's making people sick enough, it's not sick enough to kill them, but it's sick enough that now they they I got to go to the doctor, you know, from this nonfood thing that I'm eating. They go to the doctor all of a sudden. Now, it's funny, you know, I was jok I was talking to my wife and I was like, you know, sometimes we'll get a phone call and the patient will say, "Hey, did my doctor send in my subscription?" And I'm like, I want to correct them, but I'm thinking, you know what? You're actually probably right. You know, like you called it the right name >> because a lot of times that's what it turns into. It's it's like having a Netflix subscription that you don't want >> that doesn't do that you have to have for the rest of your life, you know. And you're right. And it just milks them. Milks them all the way from food to doctor to and insurance is involved in multiple steps there. And I mean I don't even know what the monetary what the total amount of money that's going through that system is. >> Tens of trillions. Harvard got it. >> Harvard did a study um Harvard School of Public Health did a study um you know recently last few years. So just looked at five chronic diseases worldwide and they found so this was um COPD, cardiovascular disease, cancer, um mental health disorders and diabetes of all descriptions and um just those five right so autoimmunity that's one of the main um main you know costs u you know I think the number one and number two drugs um grossing highest grossing drugs last year were both autoimmune drugs And then number three was ozambic and then you have all these other you know Alzheimer's, dementia, Parkinson's, you know, um all these different sorts of things. Um but so just those five, so that's not even nearly all of it. They found that worldwide that the direct and indirect costs for treating those five diseases worldwide um in 2010 was about $8 trillion. And by and it's going up. So by 2030 it's expected to be up over 14 trillion dollars per year, right? And >> I believe it. Yep. >> That's the tip of the iceberg because look, okay, how is this affect because those are real people and that's affecting their lives, right? So what about the lost opportunity costs? How does that affect the economy? Being sick, not being able to go to work, being on disability, those sorts of things. Not being as productive. True. >> How does that affect it? And they've estimated that that's that's going to cost the global economy between 2010 and 2030 42 trillion dollars, right? >> That's not even the worst part of it. The worst part of it is the is the premature deaths. So you have someone who dies of a heart attack at 30 35. They they're not productive for the next 30 years. >> Right. Right. Right. >> And um and this is a this is a big hit, you know, a big hit to them. Their family may have to go on on welfare or some sort of, you know, government aid or something like that. How is this affecting the economy? How is this affecting the world? They found that in 2010, just the early deaths in 2010 cost the global economy um like 22 nearly$23 trillion just in 2010. And by 2030 they're estimated to be around 43 trillion dollars per year in early deaths really early preventable deaths because again these are being caused by COPD smoking or exposure. Cardiovascular disease again this is this is something that we're being exposed to because the rates have just gone through the roof. The first death from heart attack confirmed on autopsy in America was in 1912. there wasn't a single reported case of a death from a heart attack prior to that. Okay, so this is this is something in our environment. Um diabetes, we we already know from large-scale clinical trials, you can reverse type 2 diabetes by putting people on a ketogenic diet. Um mental health disorders, we're seeing more and more that this is very much diet related. A lot of people are are fixing that as well. And uh and cancer, cancer has rates have just gone up and up and up and up. There was a there was a book by professor Wilhammer Stefonson from Harvard who's an ethnologist and polar explorer lived at the Inuit and he found these people had basically no chronic diseases at all and looking at other um u pre-aggricultural populations they found that basically cancer rates were zero and that's been shown in in peer-reviewed um studies throughout the 20th century especially in the Inuit population and for periods of 20 20 year sections all of a sudden there's almost no uh cancer rates and there's a little bit and then the next 20 years there's a little bit more than that and just start all of a sudden creeping up and now when eating a western diet they have higher rates of cancer than the rest of the population you know because they haven't been exposed to agriculture or post-aggricultural foods um for more than a century or so and yet you know we've had or other populations have had 10,000 years to adapt to this stuff and so Bill Hmer um professor sponsson said wrote a book called Is cancer a disease of civilization? Right? Because you're just not seeing cancer in these populations. But then when they move to a post-aggricultural population, this is in anthropology textbooks and literature right now. People can look this up that when they're living in their natural natural way of life and hunter gather a way of life. They don't get these chronic diseases. The issues that they have from a health perspective are trauma, wars, panthers, things like that, infectious disease, childhood, infant mortality rate, those sorts of things, right? You and but they look at life expectancy. The modal age is actually in the high 70s, even 80s. It's just infant mortality rates high. So that brings the average from birth down. But that's not how long people live when they die of old age. So they die of old age, 70s, 80s, 90s, but they're what they're dying from is trauma. They're or starvation or something like that. They're not they're not getting sick. They're not getting Alzheimer's. They're not dying of diabetes. >> Right? >> But then and this is this is all throughout the literature. This is not me saying this. This is anthropologists today saying this that when you get a huntergatherer population, a pre-aggricultural population that moves to a post-aggricultural population, all of a sudden that flips and now the main issues of of their health become diseases of civilization. What the hell is a disease of civilization? It's what they used to be referred to as western diseases, diseases of the west because only western countries got them. They're postaggricultural diseases. their diseases from eating the wrong food and getting poisoned and sick. And so it's static, it's heart disease, it's cancer, it's autoimmunity, it's dementia, Alzheimer's, and all the rest. And so this is completely preventable. And we see this cause and effect relationship not just in yourself, but entire populations. We saw the Native Americans didn't have any of these sorts of problems largely before the bison were wiped out, especially in the Great Plains where they were largely carnivores. And then when you did wipe when we did wipe out the bison, all of a sudden they had to switch to a post-aggricultural way of eating. Now they have four times the chronic disease rates that we have. And at the late 1800s, their average height shrank by several inches. There's a study called the tallest in the world. It was published in 2001. Um, and it looked at original source data. People had gone out in the late 1800s and measured the average heights of everybody around. They found that the uh Plains Indians and especially like the Cheyenne and things like that were by far the tallest human beings alive on earth at the time. They were taller than the European Americans at the time. Um and there so their average height at that time for adult males was 5 foot 10. Right now it's 5'8 in America. Now everybody knows that. They think it's much taller. It's 5'8. They were 5 foot 10 at the end of the 1800s. And you have other populations, you know, maybe you like Denmark, they eat a lot of meat. They allow a lot of dairy and they they're tend to be slightly higher. The Messiah are like average 6'3. They're just carnivores. Their neighbors, the Aikuyu, who are more largely vegetarian. >> Yeah. >> Average he had five inches shorter than the Messiah. Even though they interbed, genetically similar population. So that's all development. That's not genetic. And so we saw this in the Native Americans in the late 1800s that they were the tallest human beings alive on Earth at the time. Right? But this was the really important part here was that this was just after they'd been put on the reservations and all the bison had been wiped out. So that this was just at that transition point. And so what they noticed and they documented this at the time in the 1800s that the the young adult males were by far the shortest in the whole tribe and their fathers were taller than them and then >> Oh. from the dietary change. Yeah. >> Exactly. because the dietary change happened right then and so you saw this in real time you saw them shrinking down over time and then the chronic disease started going crazy a price uh Dr. Christ a dentist wrote a whole book on this big thick book and he went from population to popular all these different native populations and he saw as they were changing in the early 1900s he saw their height health and he was specifically a dentist who's looking at teeth they had fallen arches there's small you know had smaller jaw size and and worse facial development and he saw this you can actually reverse this you see it in families like this part of the family they're eating more traditional and this one kid is eating more of the the western food and that was the one that was having developmental problems start adding in and he theorized that it was there was they were missing some vitamins and animal fat. That's exactly what it was at least for the jaw development because that's in current dentistry journals right now today that you need that that crooked teeth and small jaws not genetic. It is developmental. It is nutritional. It is generally well you need K1 K2 D3 calcium. And if you don't have enough of those, you can't develop your your face, your jaws and teeth properly. And also, you need to chew harder food than just smooshy peas. You know, when you give these kids just mush crap, they need to chew and they need to work their jaw. That stimulates the hard pallet to grow and develop properly. But you need those nutrients. And K2 and D3 only exist nutritionally in meat and animal fat. And it's typically people are are most commonly deficient on the K2 side of things and that's where they get this uh deficient um jaw development and and crooked teeth. And so Bryce actually so we started reintroducing raw milk and butter and animal food, meat and fat that he was actually able to reverse this and their jaws all of a sudden started growing. Their teeth started straightening them out themselves and those sorts of things. >> Speaking of that era, I'm sure you know Dr. William Osler, right? He was the first >> Yeah. >> You know, Osler's nose was all these. So very famous, very very famous doctor. Um he was the first professor of medicine at Johns Hopkins. His uh he he had a textbook uh on on medicine. And uh my my great-grandfather was a was a surgeon and he had this. And so I I inherited this book and it was from 1910, right? That edition was published in 1910. there. It's really interesting to go back and read like what they knew about at the time and how they treated things because they really had a direct focus on root cause. They're really trying to figure out what is causing this problem. How do we fix this? How do we reverse it? How do we cure it? That's what they were working towards. And and you can see that in in the in the textbooks of the time. Really interesting. I looked up the chapter on diabetes. What do you think the treatment for diabetes was in 1910, 10 years before we discovered insulin? I don't even want to guess. It's what >> a ketogenic meat based. >> Ketogenic. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. >> So, we were using a ketogenic diet since the late 1700s to treat diabetes type one and type two. They didn't differentiate. They just said, yeah, people that that developed this diabetes, you know, sweet, you know, diabetes malitis means sweet tasting urine, which is creepy, right? Yes, doctors did taste urine historically. We had labs to to test it for us. And um I'm I'm happy I'm not in that era, but >> but they but we lost a lot too because it was so much better diagnosticians. They understood the body so much more and and they were actually going for root cause. It wasn't corrupted by the industries that corporate capture. But that was the treatment, you know, and they just found that that people that that experienced this diabetes um at younger age, they had worse outcomes than people that got this at older age. And now we would differentiate it between type one and type two. Now, um, but the thing was is that the younger people that presented with this, which would be a type one as and they described it as more of a acute onset. They would have this these sorts of features and you're like, "Okay, yeah, this is a type one picture." And what and then you put them on that it would call an animal-based diet. It was basically zero carbohydrates and about equal parts protein and fat. That's what they did. >> Okay. >> That was in that was in Osler's textbook. And that was the treatment for a good 140 years before insulin came in. >> It was probably very effective. >> It was. And so they said was that that the younger population, the type ones, as we would call them now, had worse outcomes, had a high mortality rate. But what they did not say was that they had a 100% mortality rate. What they did without insulin. This is before insulin. They did not say that these people died invariably and we have no way to save them. They said that they usually will prolong life. This will prolong their life. They'll live 7 8 n months to a year, but there's a high mortality rate after that, but it's not 100%. So, there were people that were surviving that were living with type 1 diabetes without insulin as long as they adhere to the diet >> off of it, they would die. >> And that's the only thing keeping them alive. Now, type 1 diabetes is an autoimmune condition. >> Yes. >> And so, this is like Hashimoto's. It damages your thyroid. Eventually, your thyroid is going to die. You they you end up getting taken out because it's a cancer risk and you're on thyroid medication the rest of your life. So, you think of that like type 1 diabetes. You've destroyed the beta cells of the pancreas and they're just gone and you just have to replace insulin after that. So, that that can be the case. >> But what about catching Hashimoto's before it destroys your thyroid? you have to get it you have to get it taken out. Well, then you can actually, you know, improve that and reverse that. I've got over 100 patients with Hashimoto's that have done that and that stick to a carnivore diet. Their autoimmunity comes down, their antibodies come down, their thyroid function comes back up and look at that, they don't they don't need as much of their medication. Some are even able to come off of it completely. Can take a year or two, but you know, because the thyroid is slow to heal, but I've seen it happen a lot. um and any other autoimmune issue like you've seen. You've come off medication and now you've had damage to your body. But >> yeah, >> some of that can heal as well. At least the damage has stopped. >> What if we stop the damage to the type one? What if we stop the damage before the beta cells, the beta eyelet cells are completely dead? >> That is true. That is true. It's funny. I was talking to Dr. Baker. He told me he's had a couple a couple of type one and I'm assuming he means like they're adults now. um that have gone carnivore and are insulin free. Now they must be zero carb you know and you know obviously their liver can can produce enough to keep their glucose where it needs to be without going so high that they need insulin but um I found that interesting. Have you seen anything like that? two patients who have done that >> and not now. So, so the thing is any any type one is gonna be very benefited by going on a ketogenic diet, carnivore diet, right? Because your blood sugar control is is so even, right? >> Oh, yeah. >> So, your the amount of insulin that you need is much less. And you were talking about the old school insulins like the R insulin, things like that. That actually, you know, that's our normal insulin that actually fits the the insulin curve that you need um from eating protein versus carbs, right? Because carbs are just big spike. And so people are just eating protein, they have this this bit of an increased need of insulin because of the protein that they're consuming. It's actually that our insulin is actually fits that curve much much much better, which makes sense. our insulin that we're making is actually designed for protein, not carbohydrates. Right. >> And so, um, so that's one thing, but you'll get much better much better control doing that anyway. But this is an autoimmune condition, and autoimmune conditions are helped by a carnivore diet, bar none from what I've seen. I I've yet to come across an autoimmune condition that doesn't improve by at least a some degree, especially going on a lion diet. And >> yeah, I was going to say lion lion is when I find out that autoimmune is is included, I I usually recommend all the way lion just >> Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And uh and for type one, you know, if you now, first of all, interestingly enough, those antibodies and the damage that happens to the beta cells, beta eyelet cells, the pancreas that make insulin, >> that only affects the the cells themselves, not the stem cells. So actually people still have the beta stem cells. And so if there's some way to trigger those stem cells, then maybe you could actually get a recovery. But the the point is is that you're you're going to if you if you don't stop the damage from happening, even if your beta stem cells are starting to make a couple new beta cells, they're going to get killed right away. So you have to stop the damage first, which is where the diet comes in. And so I' I've seen that. And when at least in the people that I've that I've seen that that we got it right away, I mean they they were in the hospital with DKA. They had positive antibodies. They had zero ceptides. They had zero insulin. This was you know classic poly dipsia polyura. You know exactly what your sister experienced and you know lost you know 20 pounds in a week and all these sorts of things. It's the classic barn door presentation. They were in in the hospital with DKA. They were put on insulin, blood sugars all over the place, and they came in to see me like a week or two after they were in the hospital. They got out of the hospital. And you know, we we change the diet straight away. We talked about all these principles about, you know, how much your body needs, insulin, all that sort of stuff. In the very least, it's going to help normalize that and rationalize your your insulin use. And um for these two patients and um you know, two patients so far, however, it's already in the published literature. There's already case reports showing this exact same phenomenon that people with type 1 diabetes who go on to a ketogenic carnivore diet within the first year after of presentation that after s first of all really flatlined their need for insulin and blood sugar and their their blood sugar and their insulin demand. But then also after six weeks I tested them again and all of a sudden they were making ceptide and insulin right so making endogenous insulin again. >> Okay. So the key is to catch it >> catch it early. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Before these these beta cells are fully dead. >> Right. >> Right. >> Or maybe your your beta stem cells are still able to make some. Who knows? But either way, there is some recovery of function. And so now all of a sudden the ceptide is elevated is is is measurable when it was not measurable before. So it's still low. It's still below the the normal reference range, but it's there, right? And again, perfect control on their blood sugar and very easy easy insulin management. And then after another six weeks, about three months total, this was for both both patients, >> they had high normal ceptide, dead normal insulin and no exogenous insulin demand, right? >> Wow. Wow. >> There's already case reports. >> That's amazing. Like that is >> Yeah. And >> that's amazing. >> Yeah. So, but we saw this cause and effect relationship as well. One patient stayed on it. She's fine. She's not on insulin anymore. She's doing great. The other guy >> um he works away in like the mine sites in Australia and he um can't control his meals all the time, right? Because he's gone for a week or two and he's just sort of at the at the mercy of the of the kitchen. There's usually meat, there's usually eggs, but you know, maybe not not not great options. >> And so he just found that he just really couldn't stick with it. And he started incorporating back in carbs. Instantly his blood sugar's all over the place. He now he's back on insulin and his body can't handle it. And starts going through all that sort of mess again. He does that for a couple of months and goes, I this is this is this is ridiculous. I'm going to go back on this. I'm just going to make it work. I'm only going to eat what they have here. I'm going to bring in meat with me. All that sort of stuff. And he made it work and he got back on it. And again about three months he was able to come off insulin completely. And people like, "Well, but that's not appropriate because he still needs insulin. But you how do you know you're not his freaking doctor? Shut your mouth, you know, because you go in his ceptides completely perfect and his insulin levels are perfect and his C is 4.5, which is better than yours, you know, like for whoever's talking that nonsense who's not diabetic. So that that's excellent for a non-diabetic, >> right? >> Why are you telling me that he still needs insulin when he doesn't need insulin? Clearly, >> he does not need insulin, right? So, you know, it's um and so that's cause and effect sort of relationship. You know, you add in these things, this damage happens, it damages his beta eyelet cells and he requires insulin. But if they're not fully dead yet, you could potentially regrain down, regain ground. Um, and there's there's people have been treating type 1 diabetes for 15 years with with a carnivore diet. And that is what they found. I've spoken to them. there was author of these two case reports and those two case reports that are in the literature um turns out they went off off the diet after a couple of years and sure enough boom came right back now they're insulin dependent right but they have dozens of other hundreds of other patients probably at this point over 15 years that have never had to go back on insulin if they catch it within the first year and that's what they said was that if you catch it within the first year it's much better odds and after that it's very unlikely they've only had one patient that they would have been come off insulin after if they've been a type one after one year, but they were like after 15 years. So probably that's something stimulated the the the stem cells for some reason, right? Um but if you catch it before one year, it's much much more likely that you'll be able to come off insulin or at least only you need a very small amount of insulin. So some of them still do require some insulin in order to maintain optimal blood sugar control and I 100% agree. you need to maintain optimal blood sugar control as well. Um you don't just say, "Oh, I'm just going to avoid this and then your HBA1C is, you know, 6.5 or 7." That that's not safe. That glycation damages your body over time, right? >> So I do absolutely if you need a bit of insulin, take a bit of insulin. Think about the R insulin as opposed to, you know, the ACT rapids and things like that. Um >> well, and it's much cheaper. It's much more affordable, too, our >> insulin. Yeah. >> Yeah. And um but yeah, so that that was that was that um and but that's what they found. It's like if you catch it within a year because this of this autoimmune nature is is if you catch it before these beta cells are have completely died off that it's possible that they could make some recovery and at least you know that's what we've seen. Dr. Baker's seen it. I've seen it right. >> Why is that not more mainstream? I mean you would think that that is hugely impactful especially to like a pediatric patient coming in at six, seven years old. it's going to change like it's going to affect the rest of their life like that should be mandatory. There's got to be there's got to be something from from the industries and blocking this because you know that that person who published those two case uh reports. Um she's tried to publish like clinical data. They've done they've done like experimental data design. It's like hey why don't we just why don't we see this from the onset. Hey that's what's going on. Let's >> these people coming in let's do it in experimental design. So can't get published. People just won't publish um their work or their case series or whatever. And in fact um they were getting trouble they were getting in trouble by different medical board that like you were specifically not allowed to treat type 1 diabetics or this that and the other blah blah blah. They got in a lot of trouble. This was um in Europe and they got in trouble uh doing that and they were trying to actually shut them down was like but this is helping people. This is just nutritional interventions you know and um it's >> and it's optional like it's not they don't have to do it you know but >> still taking insulin. They're still doing whatever their doctors are prescribing them, but they're also just changing their diet and seeing what happens. Like, what is >> what is going on here? But yeah, there there's there's something going on, you know, and there's there are some people out there that are trying to um keep this away from people and and keep the root cause medicine away from people, which is, you know, I don't know. I mean, the more I sort of look into this, I see these these people intentionally doing things to cause harm and then profiteeer from that harm, it just I don't know. I mean, it's it's just it's pure evil. And >> it is. It is. >> Think that there's actually is good and evil out there and that, you know, >> yeah, >> people aren't just well, we're just all trying to go on. No, there there are evil people out there that are that are happy to that that are care more about, you know, their profits and their money than your life. And that is disgusting and evil. And those people should be criminally prosecuted, not just civily prosecuted. Uh because if they're doing something that knowingly causes harm or is is withholding a cure or a treatment, you are deliberately causing harm to a massive group of people. And that's a that's those are crimes against humanity. And I think that >> Oh, yeah. I mean, that's it doesn't get any more unethical, you know, than that, you know. I I don't know how they can sleep at night, honestly. >> Yeah. Yeah. I I agree and and hopefully things do change that people do start facing criminal uh um consequences for this. I mean like the the tobacco company, you know, they they lied for 30 years, put out false uh studies that they knew were fraudulent because they knew that that tobacco was harmful and addictive and yet they lied about it and they tried to cover it up and and so the whole time they were able to sell this poison to people that they knew was poison, >> right? And and then it all came out that they were knowingly doing this and they got hit with a, you know, couple hundred billion dollars worth of fines. >> And yet, who went to jail? You know, you're you're putting a product out on the market that's causing untold suffering and death. Did Did anybody get a manslaughter charge? You know, criminal negligence charge, something, anything. >> Well, and by then, some of those people are so heavily addicted. I mean, there's like no there there's a very small chance they're ever going to stop, you know, even if even though they found out, oh, it's bad. >> Yeah, >> they're not going to stop, you know. >> But, you know, knowing >> it was the same with uh with Oxycontton, you know, when with Purdue and when they, you know, that whole story and then of course that's been a whole massive thing. But >> did anybody go to jail? I don't know. >> Exactly. Well, the same thing, right? If you if you're knowingly putting something out there that's harming people and you're pushing now, oh, this is safe, this is safe, this is fine, but it but you know that it's not and you know it's causing harm, there should be criminal repercussions because of that. And if it's just an actuarial accountant sort of, you know, sort of calculation where it's like, okay, can we make more money than the lawsuits and fines, >> right? >> If we could do that, then like hashtag worth it because we're not going to get in trouble. We're still making money, so that's worth it, right? That's just doing business and paying a few billion dollars in fines and lawsuits. Well, we hundred billion dollars, so >> who gives, right? But you start prosecuting that criminally saying, "No, no, you knowingly cause harm. You knew that was going to cause harm and you lied about it. You go to jail, you go to prison, you may sac, you you may actually have to you, you know, face you criminal murder charges. You know, if you if you you know something's going to kill people and you push it out there and it does in fact kill people, that's malice of forethought that there. >> Yeah. That's no different than you putting strict mind in someone's drink. You know what I mean? Like it's the same thing. >> That's it. That's exactly it. And you're and you're profiting from it and you're doing it because it makes money, you know? Well, I have to I have to think about my shareholders. Like, buddy, you know, your shareholders don't need you to commit, you know, you know, uh, you know, uh, fraud and and you SEC violations and things like that. I mean, so you go to jail if you do that sort of crap, even though you're trying to make money for your shareholders and all that sort of stuff, but >> bingo, right? >> So, you don't get to do something criminal just for that profit motive. I mean, that that's it's criminal, right? So if these people aren't prosecuted criminally and if we don't speak out and everyone listening to this writes their politician, writes their congressman, writes their senator, you know, writes the president, says, "Hey, these people are harming people. They are knowingly harming people. How is that any different than someone coming and robbing someone and beating up a store clerk to take their money, right? They are doing something to harm people so that they can profit from it. That is a criminal act. And they're doing this on a global scale. So, we need to start prosecuting these people criminal >> and it's growing and it's getting wor like the greed is real. You know what I mean? Like it's not like it's just staying flat and they're just milking it. It's growing. And then if there's a new problem that comes up, boom, they got it's just they've got the whole enchilada around it to make that more profitable, you know? >> Well, because they because they have no repercussions. They're still making money. It's not even that they're getting fined out of existence, right? They're getting they're getting fined less than they made. I mean, the the the least you could do is say, "Okay, you made $18 billion off of Oxycontton. Okay, we're going to find you 28 billion." >> Yeah. >> It has It has to hurt. It has to cost you a lot of money because you hurt people and you damage them. They're not going to find you $3 billion because you you've made you had a profit of of $15 billion. You're not going to stop doing that unless you hit them harder, >> right, >> than what they what they made. They're just going to keep doing it because again, it's just cost of doing business. But if they go to jail, they go to prison. >> Yeah. >> Of the entire executive branch of of of Fiser goes to prison, you know, because of this. Like, yeah, it's not a chance in hell. People are like going like, "Oh, we should do this. it'll be fine. People go, "Not a chance in hell. That's my ass. I go to prison if that goes happen." No thank you. We're not doing that. But if you don't have repercussions, then what's stopping these from doing it? Because again, there is evil out there. We know this. We're seeing this in real life. These some people are in charge of these companies and they just they they value profit over human life. And so, which is the definition of evil, treating people as things and just saying like, "Okay, no, you can die as long as I make money." Um, that's a work good definition of evil. Um, you know, if you know, you're going to have these people in these positions, if you don't have repercussions, then there's no incentive for them to not do it because right now they're incentivized to do that because they are making money off of it. And so, they have no incentive to not do it. So you need to you need to incentivize them to not do the wrong thing. Incentivize them to do the right thing. Okay, you can make money, but if you do the wrong thing, you hurt people. You go to jail and you get more >> than what you made. Right. >> Right. >> Yeah. I'd never thought about it that deeply, but you're I mean like because if a doctor intentionally committed malpractice and knowingly harmed a patient. >> Yeah. >> They're getting their license revoked, they're going they're they're going to prison. You know what I mean? Like it's not even a second thought. And no one's gonna they're gonna be like, "Yes, thank you for getting rid of that guy." But when this happens, it's just like I I didn't I never thought about it that deeply. That's a good point. >> And think about it this way, too. Okay, let's say let's say someone did a surgery, right? And they and they botched the surgery and they really damaged someone and they got sued for malpractice, right? >> Yeah. >> Do they get a percentage of the money they made from that that surgery? like it was a a $24,000 beriatric surgery just destroyed this person's life and had all these complications. They ended up suing. Okay. It was like, well, I I charged them $24,000, so well that's fair to give them $3,000 back, you know. >> Yeah. No, no, >> no. They're getting they're getting sued for hundreds of thousands or millions. >> It's going to be very >> impactful. The hospital charged $23,000 for that surgery. The doctor got about a grand, $800, right? And so, but the patient who got hurt is getting millions, right? So, why is why is that switched around when we're talking about a pharmaceutical company? A pharmaceutical company's making billions, tens of billions of dollars off of human suffering >> and yet fined a small fraction, >> right? They were they've profited from that human suffering and they're not going to jail. They're not losing, they're not having their license to produce and and uh medications revoked, you know, like a doctor would or a pharmacist would. I mean, you screw with someone and and you you cause harm and you know that you're causing like if you were to if you were giving people, you know, just sugar pills, >> you know, instead of like a real med medication and you and you were just, you know, so it was cheaper for you. So, you were charging them $300 for their prescription, but it was actually, you know, 13 cents worth of sugar pills, and you just keep the difference. You know, your ass is going to jail, you know. >> Yes. >> And you're using your license. You harm people. You knowingly harm people in order to make money. Hey, I got to think about my shareholders. Like, you know, this is the way I can make the most money to to do. No, that's not an excuse when you're breaking the law and you're hurting people >> and you're not gonna >> fined a small fine, you know, and they was like, "Oh, well, that's that's less than the cost of doing business, so I'm just going to keep doing that." No, you're fined out of out of existence. You're going to lose your license. You're going to lose your your business, and you're going to go to jail. So, why the hell are we holding these people to different standards? That needs to change. >> That does need to change. You're right. Because the way it stands now, they're actually incentivized to just like you said, bake it into the cost of of >> of production. They're going, "Okay, we might get sued and we'll have to pay that, but you know, we're going to make 10x that, so who cares?" Exactly. >> I mean, that's crazy. That's propagating it. Like they're just going to keep doing it and they're gonna they're going to exploit. >> Yeah. >> Surely hopefully at some point this this changes. It's got to something's got to give. Well, you know, just like we we've changed the the public narrative about the carnivore diet and nutrition, which is now you see the Maha movement. You know, RFK Junior is on a carnivore diet. He's speaking publicly about his voices, which is amazing. >> Yes, this is something that um we can do from a grassroots movement if enough people make enough noise and say, "Yeah, no, that's not acceptable." um and make enough noise and make it politically expedient for their politicians and and politically deletious for the politician to ignore this. That's when you start making these these changes. So, I encourage everybody here to do that. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. >> Right. Well, Jason, thank you so much uh for coming on. Uh it's been absolute pleasure. I know it's late there, so I don't want to keep you too long, but thank you so much for coming on. It was amazing to hear your story. I'm so glad that you're doing so much better. and then passing that forward and helping others. Um, how do people find you and um, that's your work? I understand that you're you're you're continuing to help people as well through your website as well. So, if you tell people where that is. Yes, I am. And actually, um, I've actually rebranded recently. You can see right here to my to my right. It's it's the Carnivx. And right now, um, it's just a Tik Tok channel, Carnivore RX. C A R N IV RX. And there'll be a lot more coming from that. But um yeah, that's where you can find me for now. And man, thank you so much for having me on here. I'm glad I was able to share my story and and talk with you. You've you've I've been following you for years. You're I mean, >> okay. >> I I listen I mean I it's it's a pleasure being on here and keep doing what you're doing. You are very vocal. You're you're out, you know, you're the voice that people need to hear. I think there is untold amount of pain and suffering that needs that could be reversed if people just knew, you know, and then even what you just said right here, if we can if we can get some legislation in place to really take care of some of this criminal stuff that's it's it's just ridiculous that's going on. Um I think we can make some sweeping changes. So yeah, thank you so much. >> Thank you. And uh it's great to see you out there and more people out there um sort of yeah just helping push this forward and getting people healthy and actually trying to get people healthy which is great is great to see. I think that's most people's motivation that gets in get into these sorts of industries but unfortunately our our good intentions has been have been co-opted and uh for for corporate profit uh motives. So, it's good to see more people becoming aware of that and and trying to get out of that and and actually help people as we've been wanting to do and that's why we got into this. So, thank you very much, Jason. It's an absolute pleasure. I really appreciate you coming on. >> Absolutely. Thank you. >> Thank you everybody for watching. If you enjoyed that, please do hit the like and subscribe and do follow Jason on his platforms as well. Um, also again, please do contact your politician, write a letter. It makes a big difference. they do pay attention to those things. If you call, you write an email, it it has a big effect. But you write a letter, people sit down and write a letter, they consider that more important to listen to that you actually took the time to write out a letter and send it in. Um, enough people do that, do a letterw writing campaign. This will actually start at least going in and and getting their brains going like, "Yeah, actually that's we've been doing this wrong. We've been handling this wrong." Now, a lot of them are on the payroll and and they get highly um you know, they they they have lobbyists um funding a lot of their campaigns. However, there are people that aren't funded by food and drug companies. And even the ones that are, if they see and they have some scruples and they see that actually no, that's that's wrong, these these changes will start uh to uh take place. So, the more noise that we make at a grassroots level, the more change that we're going to see. We've already seen that um in the health conversations in America right now. Let's do this a further step and start holding these people criminally accountable for their criminal actions and crimes against humanity. So, thank you all very much and we'll see you next time. Hey guys, thank you very much for taking the time out to listen to what I had to say. If you like it, then please like and subscribe to my YouTube channel and podcast. And if you're on YouTube, then please hit that little bell and subscribe, and that'll let you know anytime I have a new video out, which should be every week, if not more. And if you could share this with your friends, that would help me get the word out and let me know that you like what I'm doing. Thanks again, guys.