He Took ZERO Meds And FIXED His Chronic Disease! | Will Ziener

[Music] Hello everyone. Thank you for joining me for another episode of the Plant-Free MD. I'm your host Dr. Anthony Chaffy and today today I have a very special guest, Mr. Will Zener, who is going to tell us his story uh with the carnivore diet. Will, thank you so much for coming on. Hey Anthony, thanks for having me. Um, not a problem. Longtime follower. I just didn't uh listen to your podcast as much as I have recently because I didn't know you had one. Um I kind of had you on my on my reels and stuff and I you know was very intrigued of your uh methodology, your enthusiasm, your knowledge. So uh I'm I'm honored to be on here for sure. Well, thank you. Well, it's a pleasure to have you on. Um, so if you can uh tell us where people haven't haven't come across you, don't know you, can you tell us a bit about yourself and um and what brought you to the carnivore diet? Yeah, so um it all started in 2019. Um that's about 12 years after I retired. Uh military guy, 20 years of soft aviation, uh working with soft guys. So, uh, you know, it was important for me to at least appear to be in shape, uh, when we had the users on board and all. Um, and, uh, and then, and then it all started going, you know, downhill, you know, weights just weight just started packing on. Um, I was I was I was in Germany from 16 to 19 and I was hiking my my nuts off uh doing Volksw every weekend 10ks, you know, times two on the weekend and then I'd hike during the week. I I kind of lived in some foothills. It was beautiful. Um, and then all of a sudden my uh my hip uh was getting really bad. I went in, they said, "You got moderate hip arosis." Uh, and it was getting so bad that uh, and they didn't have a surgeon that uh, I could barely walk. So, my the last couple months were were without exercise. So, I kind of I went from about 2 212 when I retired. I was probably about 195. Went to to 212, but I was hiking, so I was kind of maintaining and I was working out a little bit. Um, and then uh no hiking, ballooned up to about 235. Um, and uh I was actually unfortunately I was starting to drink more for the pain. So, you know, double whammy drinking more. hiking less. That's kind of what helped me balloon up. Um, I decided, all right, you know, Germany, I can drink it, drink beer at work. US is not going to be a player. So, I said, you know what? I'm quitting. I'm just going to quit drinking, you know, because it was getting too much. Uh, came back on the flight, cold quit. Uh, it was pretty easy. um saw the surgeon locally he he said you don't have moderate hip arthosis you have severe so within uh uh I came back in June August I had uh hip replacement surgery uh I had a few other surgeries uh both left and right toe right shoulder and in the meantime that year I lost 35 lbs which was confusing losing. I didn't get it. I didn't understand whatsoever what was happening to my body. And uh in the meantime kind of podcasts were getting really popular. I'm listening to Joe Rogan and uh Paul Saladino was one of his guests and and I got his book the carnivore ending. I'm like, "All right, dude. You know, I could I could ratchet this this thing up." I didn't realize that the I didn't realize the effect of alcohol on on the liver, you know. Um the carbs were kind of easy for me to get, but uh so the 35 lbs is gone and I'm not doing anything. I'm not hiking. I'm not doing anything. So that was weird. Then I I just thought, well, let me just ratchet this uh carb thing up a little more from really turned out to be, you know, I was at the beginning stages of a low carb diet by not drinking, right? And I didn't really pound the carbs outside of that, but I just reduced it to, you know, probably below 20, I mean, for the most part. And um in 200 late 19 early 20 and then that's when I experienced uh ketosis. I um my urine was funny smelling kind of like a you know like not smelly like asparagus but smelly like different like asparagus and uh didn't know what was going on. Um, day three I wasn't hungry for a a dinner. So, I was on a three meal a day regimen and that kind of just like day three I'm not hungry. I'm like for dinner I'm like what is going on here? You know, I just didn't know uh what the physiology and all that. And um and then the the the the brain the clarity it's like dude it's like my vision didn't get better but my mental clarity was like my aperture was opening up and going dude there's so much around you that you weren't aware of. Um, and then, you know, so I'd skip a dinner every couple days and then, you know, then it turned into two meals a day and then eventually one meal a day and then in the meantime another 35 lbs. So I'm at 235 now. I'm down to 165. Right. and and that shaping my life just never tired, not not needing a lot of sleep. Uh just and my clarity, I could multitask. I could I could do a pod I could listen to a podcast, do a telecon was just like this is unbelievable. I cannot believe I hit the lottery here. And then so I wanted to spread the word and uh boy that was a mistake because nobody wants to hear it. Zero. I you know of my 200 friends not close ones but you know I'm like hey man you got to [ __ ] you got to try this and it's unbelievable and it's going to change your life and uh oh I can't give up pasta or bread. I'm like I'm like no dude you got to. And then all of a sudden I realize, all right, when I hear that word, I know to stop cuz that means that they're not interested in doing anything. Because if you tell me you can't give up pasta or bread, you just you don't give a you know whatever, you know. So, a little frustrating, but you know, I I still kept on trying, you know, and and I went from convincing one guy to maybe two two or three people. That's it. And uh have changed their lifestyle and and thank me. So, you know, those those few folks really kind of give me the energy to keep keep going. And I get my buddies like, "Dude, why don't you have a podcast?" Cuz like like that clarity thing when I started listening to the low carb uh uh down under, you know, circuit and all those guys were speaking, I could verbatim, you know, quote stuff that's happened over history. you know, Proctor Reamba 1912, the hot attacks, you know, um, you know, Anel Keys that, you know, this that it's just, it was just like this is so goddamn easy. It's not, it's almost not fair. I feel like I'm cheating, you know, cuz cuz I haven't run in probably 15 years since I retired, you know? Uh, I had chronic shin splint, so it was it was it was painfully uncomfortable to do that. So, so I just I'm active and I, you know, I I here's my uh here's my little workout stuff. Nothing crazy. I bang, you know, I bang some of that stuff out, uh, you know, once or twice a day. This past six months have been a little struggle because I had sciatica. So, I just, you know, the only thing I really wanted to do was out there and walk and then, you know, try to put a heating pad on for pain. Um, I'm addressing that with more uh you know, not severe, but I'm going to get a vertebrae injection here in in uh next week. Uh the only thing that worked more than one day was predinizone. So I've been on that for close to a month now. Uh two two week uh uh intervals and that did bring relief. So I don't you know I mean less you know I I think predinazone caused me some uh some minor uh stomach issues but uh other than that it you know the pain was just too unbearable. So I'm dealing with that. But anyways, uh so 20 rolls around has shaped my life, enjoying everything, uh listening to the podcast, you know, getting all the data in my brain and and uh you know, staying the C essentially. I haven't changed my my meal regimen of one meal a day mainly uh for the past four years really. Um, I have uh around 10 between 10 and 11. I have a I cook some ground beef about a pound, but I don't eat it all. Uh, have one egg, split a can of sardines. My dog and my dog is healthy as all ghetto. People can't believe she's 13 and so active. Um, uh, I put uh I some choices I made. cottage cheese and low not low fat full fat yogurt uh which I in the yogurt is kind of my dessert cuz I put whey protein powder um unsweetened coconut strips I use uh at this point I don't use al almonds anymore after listening to your podcast on oscillate oxalates um uh I use some walnuts and that's more for crunch and taste right not much of anything else. Um, and uh, and that's my main meal every day, you know, not bored. My cheat days are grilled steak at dinner time with the girls, which I don't normally eat a meal at dinner time. I'm already done with my main meal. And maybe I'll have a slice or two of proolone and maybe maybe some peanuts again, you know, maybe not the best choice, but for me it seems to be, you know, a decent u snack food for, you know, some some protein. It's certainly some fat. Um, but uh one other thing I turned off of was uh turmeric cuz I thought that was helping my uh my uh inflammation, but after listening to you guys, I'm like, "Oh, all right. [ __ ] Let's knock that off." So, that's kind of where I am today. Hey, let me turn the clock back once once more for my my uh my introduction to fangioinoma which was a curveball back in uh 23. Um so here I am best shape of my life 165. I've been 165 for about three years now. Um steady state. Um, I presented with uh with jaundice on a Monday, but I was complaining about my urine being like brown. And my wife was like, "Oh, it's always dark." And I'm like, "Well, this is different. It's not like bright yellow dark. It's it's no kidding brown." And that was probably uh Wednesday, Thursday, Friday the weekend maybe. Then Monday yellow I was at I was presenting at a little conference and uh I was feeling fine. Tuesday I I go I can't even I was constipated. I couldn't really I called in work. I says I'm not going to be able to make it today. I'm just going to teams in. And uh I called the doctor. I says, "Hey, uh I don't know what's going on. Uh my meds might be a problem here or something." Was one of the side effects of one of my uh take psych meds for my PTSD. Um said uh organ potential organ problems. And she goes, "Okay, let's stop and then I want you to call your uh primary." So, I called the primary and they go, "We can't get you until Thursday. Why don't you come into uh urgent care?" So, I went there and everything was off scale. My liver alt a was up upwards of 700. My Billy Rubin was uh uh was uh 11. And uh so they started taking all blood tests, hepatitis types, and um nothing there. The uh doc said we have a uh scan set up this afternoon and uh I'm like, you know, hey, I feel like crap. He goes, all right, let me set it up for tomorrow and uh you can come in in the morning. We'll get some some more tests done. So they did a ultrasound first. They thought I had a gall stone and then followed by a cat scan. Then they go, "All right, you can go home now. We're going to do an ERCP on Friday for you." Uh I didn't know that the CAT scan showed the tumor right smack dab in the middle of my myary track. And um so I'm prepped for that and he told me what they're going to do. They're putting the stint in and then if they have to they can biopsy the the sample of the tumor. All right. Well, so they put the stint in and probably within a day I started feeling really really good. And I'm like, "Oh, wow. That's that's good news. Um, so I was encouraged by by that, right? Cuz to me it was like, "All right, well, they they resolved my my current problem of being yellow and not feeling good." And um and then of course Wednesday the results popped in my app and I showed my wife, I go, "I don't know what's this mean." She goes, "Oh, yeah. that's cancer. And I go, "Well, that sucks." And then I looked it up and it was the data that I originally looked at was, you know, a decade old and and it was not it was bad. It was, you know, sir, you have a 1 2% chance of uh living one year. I'm like, "Oh, boy." Um, still not really that nervous about it cuz I go, "All right, well, this stint came in, so I know the cancer that was making me feel bad, right? It was the blockage." And um, so went through the whole rig and roll of uh, seeing the oncologist and the surgeon. The surgeon uh, I mean the Oh, yeah. The surgeon tells me exactly what he's going to do. He's like, "We're taking it out." Uh if it's further uh up towards your liver, we can go into the left hatic, remove it, or the right, not both. At that point, we stop the surgery and you uh go on chemo. If it's, you know, the southside by the pancreas, we can do a procedure for that. Basic procedure will take 8 to 10 hours. And um and I'm like, "All right." And then I see the oncologist. He goes, "Yeah, uh you have cancer." I'm like, "Okay." And he goes, "And we have to do a PET scan." So I'm like, "Why didn't we do this before?" And he goes, "Well, I haven't seen you." I go, "Well, I don't give a [ __ ] cuz my app told me I had collangio on March 10th. So, I asked the surgeon, I go, "Hey, and by the way, that PET scan was going to be needed to get surgery because I couldn't get surgery without it, right? Because they don't know if it spread." So, I was kind of pissed and uh I asked the surgeon, I go, "Can we schedule it like I like I'm getting the scan, you know, in two weeks like he said maybe it would happen." So then uh my wife got me a second opinion audible to Mass General. That was Ley uh Mass General the woman. So I saw them on a Wednesday or Thursday. Wednesday probably Thursday Friday I see her. Elizabeth Walsh and Mass General Boston. And she said uh I said hey my biggest problem is I don't have a PET scan schedule. And she goes let me see what I can do. They had like three places down in Boston. Uh Chelsea was one of them. That was the soonest. And that was like a like a Monday or Tuesday at the No, Monday the next week. So at 7:00 I'm there get the scan uh get the results cleared for surgery. So I already had scheduled my surgery for the 22nd of March and um you stayed on track for that. Uh I figured if after my surgery if I woke up and my wife wasn't uh sad that you know they had to audible into different scenarios those as planned resection without any uh additional removal and uh did the did the uh biopsy you know the more thorough biopsy posts surgery and unfortunately one of my lymph nodes popped uh positive which took me from a from a stage zero or one which I was looking for uh to a stage 3C and uh instead of optional chemo which I was going to do anyways uh it came mandatory you know well it became you know dude you got one of your lymph nodes pop so we got to you know we got to do some extra measures here and uh to be honest, that whole time, um, I was walking the day after the surgery in the hospital. Uh, I don't think I really missed much. I could no longer do pull-ups after the surgery because of my stomach. Uh, but everything else was was, you know, I I didn't go heavy on any weights initially. You know, I took it easy. I just let my body tell me what I could do. um did the chemo on the 21st of April. Um zero uh zero nausea, zero uh slowdown of my uh my activity and uh went to radiology, same thing. Just plowed right through it. I just had daily chemo headaches. So it's what what what was affecting me that I could manage with Tylenol and Motrin. So that was uh that was pretty uh awesome. Um and uh and that was uh so a year ago a year post treatment. Um I'm feeling good. you know, every three months I got to get my scans. This is, you know, this one's, uh, this one's actually, it's weird. It's, it's more lethal than pancreatic cancer, uh, but far less known. So, that's why it doesn't really make the make the headlines. Um, but, uh, but I'm confident and and like when I get my scans, I kind of, you know, I know if I feel good that I'm doing good, right? So, you know, and I'm not changing I don't I'm not changing the course. Now, I did have a little uh uh effect of my uh my dietary my you know my system. Um, and I do eat uh I do eat some sauerkraut and I almost stopped it because of the possible uh toxins. But uh when I stopped it, I Oh, I forgot to mention at the hospital I got a triple hernia from constipation between the arc painkiller and the new new you know plumbing in my stomach and I incrementally got surgeries for those and each surgery I got another case of constipation. Uh, I didn't realize the Boxy was really the main cause and it just crippled me. So, I tried not eating sauerkraut and that that was that was you. Okay, dude, you got constipation. How do you want to, you know, do you want to go to the ER for this this this instance? Because that's almost what happened the last time. And then I uh I also do one I eat one dried prune um after meal and that seems to manage my uh my gut, right? If I quit either one of those things, you know, I'm just so petrified of the constipation. Like that scares me more than anything because I'm like I don't want to go to the hospital and have them have to surgically remove my, you know, my dudu. Um, so, so that's that's really kind of where I am, you know, and I listen to these podcasts and, you know, I love listening to you. You got that vi wide variety of, you know, you got CA cancer uh, discussions. You've got uh, you know, you've got really good deep uh, with with your podcast. So, so I'm thankful that Hal kind of hooked me up with you. Um, you know, Pal and I have been friends for a while now and and um and uh what you know, good man and and working a good cause over there for sure. Uh you know, I'm trying to work a good cause with my friends, but you know, it doesn't seem to be that effective. So, um like I said, any small victory for me is is is sweet enough. Um, I know the I know the truth out there. So, um, I'm just not changing anything. And and you know, like I said, a treat day, what do you do for cheat day? I'm like, cheat day, dude. Dude, I was like kind of an alcoholic. If you want to dangle a bruski in front of me, it's not a great idea, you know? So, so my cheat day is is steak. Instead of ground beef, I a grilled steak. And boy, can I I mean, even not hungry, I'll rifle through that bad boy like there's no tomorrow, you know? Treat day instead of a cheat day. Yeah, exactly. It's like, dude. Oh, extra protein. Oh, I I I I never counted anything, but I ended up like last year doing a uh you know, like I I think it was 2400 calories cuz all I do have a lot of fat in my diet with the yogurts and the cottage cheese and and butter with my butter with my coffee. Uh I do I do use cream. Um and uh and then ground beef, you know, 8020. I don't get rid of the fat. I just consume it. And um and then the uh protein because of that, you know, those extra cottage cheese and low full fat yogurt. I didn't I lucked out. I didn't realize both of them had significant protein in them, right? Animal protein. Um, and then I slap some whey in there. And the weey is, uh, you know, I know you're not a big fan of sweeteners. Sucralose. I don't torture myself with the, uh, the coffee nor the, uh, with the yogurt. So, those are both artificially sweetened. Um, and, um, that's I mean, it's pretty, again, it it's not rocket science. Pretty simple. I'm not changing anything. Uh, and I, you know, it's hard to listen to people try to rationalize health in this, you know, this crazy environment just watching everybody get sick around you, you know. Anyhow, so that was, you know, Anthony, that's uh pretty uh pretty much what's going on here. Um, again, thank you for uh exposing me to some stuff that I kind of lost track of, you know, the oxalates. Uh, so I've taken all that stuff out. U, fortunately, the turmeric was something my wife couldn't stand the smell of for some reason, but um, so it's gone. Um, had some I got rid of cinnamon, too. Uh that was in there with the kind of mixed it in with my barfy and uh I think maybe my u my whey protein thing. Anyhow, that's gone. So yeah. Yeah. Any uh any thoughts to come my way? Well, it's it's well it's fantastic. Tammy, we're wondering so, so that treatment for the the bilary tree can carcinoma, that was in 2023. When did when did all that treatment clear up? And um uh so where are you at now with that treatment? Hey guys, just want to take a second to thank our sponsor at Carnivore Bar. I don't promote many products because honestly all you need to be healthy is to just eat meat. for those times that you're out hiking, road tripping, or stuck at work and you want nutritious snack that is just meat, fat, and salt if you want it. The Carnivore Bar is a great option. So, I like this product not because it's just pure meat, but also because I want the carnivore market to thrive as well. And the more we support meat only products, the more meatonly products there will be available in the mainstream. So, if this sounds like something you'd like to get behind, check it out using my discount code Anthony to get 10% off, which also applies to subscriptions, giving you 25% off total. All right. Thanks, guys. Post one year was uh was my last scan. So, that was 3 months ago. Mhm. And um and each scan post treatment. So, I had so March surgery, April chemo, May Late May was the start of the radiation. So I finished in uh uh probably June [Music] and then um and then one year later was was uh I guess June but uh here we are in November. So, you know, or abouts that time, maybe a little later cuz, you know, now the the the the chemo was I think 6 weeks and the radiation was was about 4 weeks. So, so April, May, June. Yeah. Julyish. But, um um yeah, I I in all my research, I already know what the labs are going to say. And I said, "Yeah, my sodium's a little low. I wanted to make sure we talked about that." And then my a my my my my liver enzymes kind of bop back and forth for some reason. Not not like offscale, just a little bit high low, but you know, my subsequent tests, they're like they're fine. So, I don't know what's going on there. Oh, my my cholesterol. That that was another thing. I uh I had high cholesterol and I was on statins for a decade and uh I was actually weaning myself off statins cuz I couldn't handle the uh you know the muscle fatigue and all and um and got my calcium score and of course I popped the moderate which was like I'm on freaking statins for a decade and then I got bra beat by the cardiologist in In the meantime, I'm uh emailing, texting Dave Diamond. Oh, this guy's a freaking clown clown show. And uh all I wanted was a was another cat scan from him, you know. And and so within a year, I got rid of seed oil cuz I didn't realize my favorite salad dressing had uh uh canola oil in it. And then I uh I added K2 vitamin. Uh, I pumped up my fish oil and I went from 149 to 120 on the CAC score within one year and I had stopped statins. And the guy's telling me, he goes, "Well, had you not been on stats, your your score would have been higher." I'm like, "No, you [ __ ] Cuz it blocks the goddamn K2 pathway. So therefore, oo, no way of removing the calcium from your freaking soft tissue." Yeah. So, it's just, you know, the the crap that's out there. Yeah. Statins Statins are well known and described and even advertised as elevating your CAC score because they say it it stabilizes the plaques by calcifying it. And so, I mean, for Oh, if you hadn't been on those statins, the CAC score wouldn't have gone down. Okay. You tell me how many of your other patients on statins lower their CAC score. Um, let's see. The ballpark figure. Oh, dude. Is it zero? I I got I got I got friendly cardiologist and then they brought the chief in at le Oh, we got the best program. I'm like, dude, I know the lies. Don't you know, you're not going to browbe me here. Cuz they wanted to put me on a P PCSK9 inhibitor uh uh injection. And and and I'm like, "All right, go ahead. Send the prescription in. See what happens." Neg Well, I never activated. I just got my second CAC score. Of course, I paid for those out of pocket, but it was peace of mind. I'm like, "All right, okay. I'm on the right track. I know what I'm doing." You know, I've reduced it. So, so, uh, so my but my cholesterol is freaking 200 LDL, like like 70 89 HDL, and like 59 uh uh uh triglycerides. So, it's like, dude, yeah, I'm not changing. Screw that. Yeah. No. And um that's the thing you we we put people on you have high blood pressure and they say okay well you need to be on high blood pressure medication. Okay. Then that presumes that that's going to lower your blood pressure because high blood pressure bad. Then you have high uh elevated CAC score and say you need to be on a statin. So the presumption there is that well that's going to lower my CAC score then obviously why the hell would you put me on a statin because I have high CAC score. So, oh that's too high. We need to put you on a statin. Okay, so that's what they what the patient thinks is this will lower my CAC score. But it does not. It raises your CAC score. Then your CAC score is going up and up and up. You Oh, you got to cut out fat. You got to cut out this. You got to cut out that. Oh, I'm on statins. And my CAC score is still going up. Yeah, that's what it does. It says that it does. We were taught that it does in medical school. said very clearly and distinctly that this will increase calcification and that stabilizes the plaque so that it's less likely to rupture. That is how it's advertised. And so, you know, we're we're saying that the calcification is bad, but then when it's done with a with a statin, then it's good. That's already crazy enough, but then you have you're you're a cardiologist that says, "No, you have to be on a statin." and you say, "No, I don't want to be on a statin." And your CSC score goes down. Well, that was only because you were on a statin. The opposite opposite opposite is true. And you damn well know that, you know, because if you had Well, then I started I I was I was asking about small dents and they kind of looked at me crooked. Well, I don't that test. I don't We don't We don't do that test. I'm like, "Yeah, I know you don't do that test because you don't want to [ __ ] expose yourselves." Well, you know, but like if you're if you're if you were on statins and your CAC score had gone up, you know, he would say, "Well, hey, you know, my my C my calcium score has gone up, but I'm on this statin." He would have then probably said, "Oh, yeah, no, that's okay, you know, because this is stabilizing the plaque, so it's okay that it's done that, you know, but you went it's always there's always an excuse. It's always, well, what we did was the right thing." And even though you stopped doing what we did, it's it's you know, it's like um you know uh you know they'll say that like um you know well like a new administration comes in and it's just like well the economy gets better and they're like well that's just because you know you of the stuff we did in the old administration was three years down the track now. that that's just because of what we did, not because of the changes you made and you know, our economy sucked, you know, and then you came in, you changed things and things changed, but that's actually because we set it up for that. Maybe, you know, maybe, but you know, it's also uh could very well be an excuse and trying to save face. And I I got to I got to be honest, when uh uh when Robert F. Kennedy was part of the administration. I was I was pumped cuz I know he's he's going to go after the industries, you know, and and you know, he's exposed them for what they really are. You know, food, the health industry and the the farmer is like a self-licking, you know, ice cream cone where they just they feed off each other. And uh as long as they're uh you know providing bad nutrition and uh uh and band-aids, you know, band-aids, you know, a stint, that's a band-aid, dude. That's, you know, you're not addressing root cause. You're just your situation is not getting better. you know that you can uh you can utilize that uh you know that you know the hot but you know eventually it's going to you know what what's next a stroke you know cuz that you again same the same root cause right um stroke or a heart attack right you know it's it's you know and then oh well I got a bypass oh good now you don't have access to, you know, you know, quarter of your heart, right? Yeah. It's just we people are just, you know, it's just, oh, well, you know. Yeah. Well, yeah. I It's certainly nice to see um people talking about these sorts of things at a national level. That was something I was very excited to see was when Kennedy started saying, "Look, you know, we have this this health epidemic that's that's plaguing sick everybody. And it's it's only getting worse. We're seeing this. Everybody sees it. There's a lot of people denying it. No, no, no. It's not really happening. Don't you know nothing to see here." All that sort of stuff. It's it's complete nonsense. And but I mean, yeah. Yeah. you you I was accepting my big fat freaking you know now I'm in the look at dude I'm in the best goddamn [ __ ] shape of my life and uh and uh and my wife's like you're so skinny. I go um yeah cuz you're supposed to be. I mean, and back to the easy part, it's like 95% of my my health is my diet. I diet and I move. Mhm. I mean, fortunately, I worked out back in the day, so you know, getting back into it easy as freaking, you know, pie. Mhm. Um, you know, that that that that baseline that you you know, you established as a younger younger uh adult and and then you you know, it's like, okay, I'll turn the switch back on. Mhm. And, you know, and and here I am with the prednazone. I have the I have the motivation to to actually work out more because I don't feel like crapola. It's like, all right, that took about two weeks to get back in the saddle, you know. Yeah. I mean, I feel for you, you know, I did, you know, like I said, some of the choices I made early on, you know, working out, you know, and then uh and then some of the food choices was just lucky. Oh, yogurt and cottage cheese both have a good amount of protein. All right. Well, I'm not knocking that off the dish, off the table, you know, and and and and like I said, I put a small portion of sauerkraut because I I figure that's the it's fermented. It's the least of the plant evils, right? You know, that that's affordable and easy to I eat it I put it in the in my dish cold and then so when my hot food goes on there, it's it's loop eat edible. you know I can eat it right away. So within five minutes my one day a meal is you know is consumed heated reheated and ate and consumed like zero effort. Yeah. If if you're going to eat plants probably fermenting them is a good idea. The ones that are they're traditionally uh known to be fermentable and and good while fermenting them. the you know the thing is too is that you if you get like the the sort of fresh sauerkraut that's actually like has the bacteria in it and you can you know that that is possibly something that could be good for your microbiome also and so that can add something to that as well as far as concerned you know that's always eat more fat if you eat more fat things will things will stay soft so um that can help too but I I wanted to ask you about your um you know the cancer we talked about how you you had your scans, but um you know what how how was that new scan and um do they have you on any plans for more chemo or they are they saying that you're you're now? No. Uh I've had five all of them uh uh you know same result, you know, no evidence of metastasize or or additional growth. Uh some of my uh uh some of my some of my enlarged uh uh nodules actually have gone down. There was a few in the uh in the lungs that uh you know they were keeping track of, right? Uh they've actually shrunk. Mhm. and he said, he goes, "They they weren't cancerous, but they've in the meantime, we've tracked them and they shrunk." So, you know, I guess that's excellent news. Yeah. Um and and listen, I'm a realist. This one's a this one's a, you know, an MF. You know, it it's it's a 70% recurrence and I have a 15% fiveyear with the current 2024 data. I'm no fool, you know, and and it doesn't it doesn't uh uh you know discriminate. So, but I also know that I'm not consuming any zero excess carbohydrate and 90% of my carbohydrate cuz I have a my fasting glucose is like 95. Mhm. Yeah. Good. That's and I consume about 8 g cuz you know my my my you know my dairy is my number one uh source of glucose but it's also lactose so it's not all glucose right and and then when I looked at the prunes when I looked at the prunes prunes of all the fruits has a high level of sucrose which is not all fructose, right? So, and it's and there's four to five servings in one uh you know thing and I eat one uh one prune and that you know so the fructose number is is is negligible and and and and so you know I just you know my body's producing what I need you know my my muscle my brain my whatever so there's there's a lot of competition in there right for my for that resource and cancer gives you know third fiddle right you know well CA cancer typically will actually suck things up first so if you look at if you look at a PET scan you know you give someone an injection of glucose it yeah but if it's but I'm not injecting the glucose my body's making it right so is that not a little different no not really it's you still have a normal amount of you still have a certain amount of glucose but when you get a glucose spike like you eat a you know yeah you have excess or something like that yeah your your the cancer cells will suck those in quicker than your other tissues will so you know that that's the only thing but it's I think it's evident that that's not going on right cuz here I am you know at the almost the year and a half mark and I got nothing coming back at me and again yeah again I'll take You know, I I didn't change anything. Yeah. Zero. I started in 200 late 19 on this on this diet and not one thing has changed other than you know then once a month I get treatment month uh treat day. Mhm. And you know and I'll you know I'll have some meat on Thanksgiving you know. Okay. Yeah. That's a good day for it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's the thing, you know, I mean, it's, you know, one one prune is is probably not a big deal. Um, you know, people people should watch out for those sorts of things because, you know, sucrossse is 50% glucose and fructose. So, you're you're getting you're getting glucose, but it's all the carb turn into glucose. You know what I mean? So, when you have lactose, that's glucose and galactose, and that'll split off, and you'll absorb the lactose and glucose, but then the galactose will later turn into glucose. And so, you know, that's something to be aware of that you still you still want to limit total carbs. Yeah. But not just gluten. But Anthony, I mean, we're talking about talking about, you know, like 10 grams of uh I'm not talking about your consumption. It's just for everybody listening. Oh, yeah. In general. Yeah. Yeah. You can't You're not going to hide from cancer by having Oh, yeah. Right. Exactly. Yeah. That's the whole point is, dude, don't consume excess, man. Yeah, you know, my costbenefit analysis, you know, if it wasn't for the protein in the uh uh if it wasn't for the protein and in the dairy and I'm kind of cheating because I'm adding whey protein to get more protein, right? So, I'm that's what I wanted to mention. My my protein number is around 150 160 grams. a day. So that's that's pretty good, right? I mean, and and of course protein can also turn right uh excess protein can turn uh right into uh uh uh is it glucose sort of I mean it's typically genesis. I mean if if right that but but at the end of the day and and people don't realize the older you get the more you actually need right because you you know you it's like and and you know these all these older frail women I try to convince my wife to you know don't quit freaking eating meat for crying out loud and then don't use tuna as your primary source of protein because that's all the heavy metals in it you know I eat that si can it's just you know you know that's and then you know I take the fish oil supplement I take a couple of those dude I mean you know uh and that seems to be you know part of my intervention with the with the for the hot what I did um you know I just take you know two I take about a thousand uh DHA EPA you at, you know, when it's all said and done. Yeah. It's usually best to get that from your food. A lot of these fish oil stuff Oh, I know. I know. I know. But but I don't, you know, I don't consume that much fish, you know, and and so that's kind of my, you know, one of my animal fat will have it though, you know, like grass-fed butter is a good source of DHA and EPA long, you know, especially if it's grass-fed. And you know, grass-fed beef has actually perfect ratio ratios of omega-3s, omega sixes, and yeah, I tell you what, I I tried some grass-fed beef the other day, and I'm like, "Oh my god, no one no one told me how good this was. I'm still trying to get a I'm still trying to find a source, a purchase source." Yeah. Uh, I thought I thought Costco was going to be the place, but you know, it turns out that uh they don't have as much as I I thought. No, unfortunately. Um, yeah, if I did, I'd be going there all the time. I love Costco in general, but yeah. No, they don't have they don't have grass-fed. They'll have they they have grass-fed uh burgers and super lean hamburger meat. Um, but you know, supposedly, oh, it's says grass-fed, but is it also grassfinish? That's all the million-dollar question. Um, there's some other products. I actually found this. Well, you could tell from the taste. I mean, that was just like a cuz I I shop at the Air Force base, the commissary, and they happen to have some grass-fed beef. Okay. And I'm like, so I grab some and I'm like, dude, this is this is unbelievable. Mhm. I mean, it's just I mean, I love grilled steak, but this stuff was like you don't need to grill. You don't you just you just consume it. And uh boy oh boy, I mean, it was delicious. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, that's um well, it's great that you're doing that you're doing so well. The you know, Billy, like you said, you know, billery carcinoma is uh is extremely dangerous. Uh my grandfather actually um passed away from that and he had the same things. He had the stent uh put in and um you know at the time this was about you know 12 years ago or so and one of the data was really not uh favorable. Yeah. It was it wasn't good. They didn't really have surgical options. you know, the basically the options was if you did like a um you know, liver transplant and you know, liver and pancreas and everything like that to get the whole bi tree structures and everything like that because cut all that stuff out, those tubes go somewhere and they need to go somewhere and so you know had to do some like major major sort of things that that weren't really an option for him uh at 95. And so it was more of um uh more of a a paliative treatment but um it was yeah that wasn't there was a lot of issues with that but um you know that's the thing is that you know there's a very very difficult um condition you know aggressive like you said you know 70% recurrence rate and so you know even that you have the surgery and you have the chemo you have the radiation you know it it does it does come back a lot so you know addressing it with ketogenic metabolic therapy, which is essentially what you're doing, limiting the amount of carbohydrates and sort of starving these things out. Um, you know, if there are residual cells banging around, you know, hopefully that this sort of starves them out. It never gives them a chance to to take hold again. That's sort of the whole idea. and that even if they're not all completely wiped out, it's at least suppressing them enough that they they can't, you know, grow back out of control. And that's sort of the idea. And and even if you have some of these things there, if they're not growing and they're not they're not causing a problem, which is great. And um so that that's amazing. You that's um it's always great to hear, you know, these stories. And hopefully, you know, you just keep getting, you know, clear checks year after year after year. Um, I I did want to ask, you know, because you you mentioned Hal, for people that um know know that episode. I I interviewed a gentleman named Hal Cranmer who has uh several elderly care facilities in Arizona and he's been using ketogenic carnivore diets to help them and he's actually, you know, improving their cognitive state. And some people are actually improving so much with endstage dementia that they're they're actually able to go home again and be with their families, which is just amazing. Uh we're actually talking about maybe putting some case case reports together and and writing these up to say, "Hey, look, this is what we're doing and this is what these are the results we're getting and um or that he's getting." And um but you know, you guys served in the Air Force together, right? You were both uh pilots in the military. Is that right? Yeah, I was a navigator. We were on the same crew. Nice. And yeah, we were we were good buds. Uh nice. Really liked really liked Hal. And And here's the funny thing. I actually in uh I turned them on to Saladino's book back in the day when you know when I was on a rampage telling all my friends and um and I I you know it's I kind of joke joke about it but uh um you know I'm you know that whole process that he does that's a that's a lot of work right you know in general and So, um, you know, and then I talked about type three diabetes. I'm like, "Yeah, dude. It's [ __ ] it. If you got type two, it's going to the brain. It's cuz it's, you know, you don't have the ability to utilize uh insulin and and burn burn those neurons. And then when you can't burn brain neurons, you become, you know, you start losing your your cognitive uh uh capacity." And um but the fact that he's doing it, you know, you know, that's a fine line, right, for introduce this to people and families and say this is what we're doing and you know and then you know and fortunately getting the results cuz proofs in the goddamn pudding, right? You know, I mean it's it's it you know with Paul Salinas evolution. All right, turn the clock back. Just pretend pretend they had random control studies back in the day, right? Or use your goddamn common sense, right? Cuz you didn't have the other [ __ ] So therefore, " and and and uh Dr. bot k whatever you know the uh evolutionarily uh appropriate diet you know it's like man just just just pretend pretend you have a [ __ ] brain and then you can imagine and you don't need a goddamn random no I was doing the lady's like uh oh we don't have any data on ketosis I'm like shoot the you do actually I don't want to hear it just just just pretend Pretend you were in, you know, the 1800. Pretend pretend that there was no sugar like there wasn't. Well, and and and and the in the seed oils and all this stuff, you know, it's like we we were healthy. Everybody was not a fat fat bastard, you know. Well, but also, you know, the you know, people saying, "Well, we don't have we don't have data on ketosis." That that's complete and utterly false. Um you know, they they're just too lazy to go looking for it and they want to be spoonfed. So, if it didn't medical school or residency and they don't have reps coming to them saying ketosis and and just telling them how to think and what to think, then they just it's not in it's not in it's not in their textbook. Well, but they but but even then they don't, you know, they're just they're just regurgitating, you know, what they're taught in medical school and and um and uh residency. But there's this entire world out there that you know you have to just is not is not influenced by certain uh people that that had a lot of influence on the medical community. Well, and and food and drug companies now, you know, they they help dictate the curriculum and there's no product line behind, you know, ketosis. There's no big keto something like that, you know. It's just a matter of carnivore. No big because the money. Where's the money to to eat healthy? Yeah. Well, that's it. And so it's just like there's no product behind that. It's just like, hey, you make your own food choices, but just, you know, you know, try to try try to limit out some of these things. It's really you're eating less of things, not more of other things necessarily, right? You could be eating the same amount. I've always eaten heavily meat, but you know, and now I only eat meat, but am I eating a completely different amount of meat? Not really. I'm eating roughly the same amount of meat. I'm just not having rice with it and salad with it. You don't need to eat as much because as long as you supplement with the fat, there's your energy. Yeah. Well, and um but you know, I'm eating basically the same amount of meat. I'm just eating less of the other things. So, it's really just you're telling actually eat less of something. So, eat less processed food, less carbs, less you know, vegetables, things like that, less alcohol, less sugar. You know, you're telling people eat less of something. You're not you're not pushing a product. So, it's al alcohol. That's a that that one's a that one's a tough one. If you that you'll never get ahead of the eightball if you don't if you don't manage that. You know u that's a that's a that's a brick wall where you know eating one prune a day is is is nothing compared to eat drinking a six-ack of IPAs you know. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Well, and and that's a that's a big hangup for people. Now, obviously, it's better to to eat right and and have some drinks rather than eating garbage and having drinks as well. Yeah. But you'll get massively better if you if you cut out the booze as well. And I mean that that's just night and day. I mean, I've seen that myself. It's just it's so different. so much better from athletic performance, just from how much energy you have, how you feel, and you know, just one night of drinking, it can have a knock-on effect for weeks after that that you don't have the same energy and exercise potential and you know, brain energy, mental energy, things like that. Um, and so, but it's hard. It's hard for people to do. And so, definitely, you know, if you're still like, look, I need to drink this amount or, you know, on the weekends, it's just I'm not ready to give that up yet, fine. But, you know, give up the other stuff, you know, anyway. I mean, at least you're doing that. You're still, you know, making positive steps in the right direction. Then when you started doing that, then it's you start feeling better. You're like, okay, well, maybe I will drink a little bit less. You feel even better. You're like, oh, okay, actually, you maybe there's something here. So, you know, sometimes you could do it in a gradual way. But yeah, you're right. It's makes a massive difference. And, you know, sometimes I see people that are that are saying they're having good results with a carnivore diet and they're saying, "Hey, I've been doing a carnivore diet. I'm getting results, but I'm not it's not like stellar like these other people are getting." and you start start pulling at threads and finding out, okay, what are you eating? And they'll tell you about all the meat that they're eating and I say, okay, what else besides meat are you eating? And then everything comes out and there's all these other things that they're eating and artificial sweeteners and drinks and this and that. And then it's just like and then you're like, hold on like you drink alcohol like uh yeah. I was like, all right, well how much would you drink? Oh, I'd have, you know, a couple drinks, you know, like a weekend or like every day. I'm like, fair enough. Okay. So, that might be, you know, part of the problem. And so, we don't we don't always think about that, you know, because that's sort of like a recreational thing. We don't consider that part of our nutrition, but of course, we're putting it in our body. And so, that affects us in in that biochemical capacity that we call nutrition. And so, uh, it is it is definitely something to consider. And if you're not getting the results that you want, how much are you drinking? You know, how often, what are you drinking? And, uh, and so on. Yeah. I mean, by no means am I a Bible thumper, but the, you know, I growing up, it was alcohol, social, right? Social, alcohol. And right now, 2019 with the way I feel, I don't need alcohol, feel great, and be social. I'm actually more social than I was before all the time, right? I you know I used to pull up to the pull up to work and see the gate guard and I was just I was just oh [ __ ] I can't I hate traffic. I hate this. I hate that. And now it's like I show up and I'm in a good mood. I'm like hey what's happening you guys? What are you dude? What are we doing? What's what are you what are you driving? You know and it's like it's like wow I before it was like I needed I thought I needed alcohol to enjoy a social environment. It's like, "Not not really, dude." Mhm. And and you know, you go and all of a sudden they're slurring the words and you're like, "Oh, this I feel bad for these [ __ ] dudes, my buddies." You know? I'm like, "Come on, man. You're you're you're [ __ ] incoherent." 30 minutes into the party, it's like And I, you know, I was there. I you know, I I mean, I get it. I you know it was that was but but when I gave it up it was like it's like again and then the thought of going back when I got the cancer I go [ __ ] should I just [ __ ] start drinking again I'm like you know what no way cuz that made me feel like [ __ ] I'm not doing that. Yeah. No definitely. Well that's great man. Um, well, you know, I really appreciate that. It's it's it's amazing to hear uh your story and um you know, obviously amazing recovery from all your health issues and it's awesome that you've been so strong with this for as long you got to howl into it. You know, that's what I talk about a lot is people's spheres of influence. You know, you you someone influenced you and you saw this and you started making positive changes. You tried telling all your buddies about it. Most of them said like that sounds nuts but Hal caught on to it and now he's applying this you know to his uh his patient population and he's sharing that around uh the world as well and that's having massive influence and that all that all came from you you know and then his influence is going around influencing other people. He's influencing those families. They're seeing it with their grandmother and now they're passing it now taking it on to their own lives and getting their own improvements and and showing it to other people in the same situation. So it's it's an absolutely amazing thing, you know, that that web of connectivity and this grassroots sort of movement that we can sort of get this up and we get this to the point that we do get national attention because there is enough of a ground swell that people are like, "Oo, maybe I should pay attention to this and we get a Senate hearing out of it, you know, and uh and I think that's hopefully going to keep continuing to grow as well." So thank you very much for for coming on and sharing your story, man. It was great. that one and thank you for having the energy to keep pushing the uh pushing out the word because you know it it you know we've we've gotten a we've essentially gotten a labbotomy uh about health and we need to fix that uh you know get people back on track you know you get inundated with with the supermarkets with the ads with the with the band-aids you know oh I'll just get on metformin to solve my problems. Come on, man. Yeah. And you know, and and people who are not even obese have taken metformin because they they want a little cheat. It's like, dude, it's all right in front of you. You know, what you got to do? Just pull the trigger. Get rid of the goddamn carbohydrates, man. That's it. Simple. Sugar. Start with sugar. Yeah. Anyhow. Yeah. Yeah. People are hoping that they can, you know, they can because they're told that their lifestyle doesn't change. I mean, we before that it was like, hey, you know, smoking matters, drinking matters, eating right matters. Now, we're throwing at people that it's like, no, no, it's all genetic. You can't change anything. Eat and drink whatever you want. It doesn't matter. And for some reason, people believe this probably because they just they would like it to be true. And uh there's some really really villainous people that are pushing this out there because of course that's just going to hurt millions if not billions of people. And they're just trying to say, well, you know, you can live any way you want, doesn't matter. And just just get some pills, you know, and and before it was, well, you know, you don't have willpower to sort of knock these things out and you want the doctor to just give you a pill to fix all your bad decisions. Now they're saying your decisions don't matter at all. Just take the pills. And it's like absolutely not. We cannot let that that continue. So, uh yeah, you're right. I mean, diabetes is not a metformin deficiency and obesity is not an ompic deficiency. Um, these are these are ways of manipulating the body in in ways that may get a superficial outcome that you want, but will not address the underlying root cause and could perpetuate it and make it worse because you have this cover up band-aid that you know, it's like if you have an injury and you take painkillers for it, that injury is still there and you can actually continue to make that injury worse. You're just not because now you're not protecting it. You're not like, "Oh, my my knee hurts so I'm going to take it easy on my knee." Oh, knee knee pain's gone. I'm just going to go, you know, uh, play basketball or something like that. Then the next day, you're screwed. You because you've now further damaged that knee. So, you know, it can be it can be a double-edged sword. It can be very helpful. Medicines can be very helpful in certain conditions if used appropriately with proper diet and lifestyle management, but they can also cover up a problem, and it can just fester and boil and then and then become an absolute disaster afterwards. And that's something that thankfully people are starting to wake up to as well. So yeah. Well, thank you so much. Um, where can people find you and uh follow you for more? Um, I'm not uh I'm not hooked up to that situation yet. Uh, be good. Good. I mean, if I'm I'm on Facebook, but uh um I you know, I don't I think I have Instagram, but I'm not sure. But I, you know, I just listen, I when I talk to people, when I bump into people, yeah, I find an opportunity to say something and uh that's what I enjoy. Someday, maybe when I retire, I'll have a podcast. But, you know, I got to hand it to you guys, man. That and I know the amount of uh effort and time that you put into that, that's uh your time that you're pushing that out there. Uh that's uh that's commendable and uh I appreciate it for sure 100%. Thanks man. Without you guys the word would not be further out spread than it is. So kudos. Well, it's a nice thought and thank you very much for that and hopefully hopefully it's doing and you know I know it's doing good. You know we see people like yourself that are getting better. So you know that's that's what uh that's what it's about. So yeah, exactly. There's some there's some satisfaction in that for sure. No, there definitely is. And you know, for for every negative comment I get, I get a thousand that are extremely positive of people massively improving their health and their life. And so, you know, just just, you know, people can hate and that's what they want, but they're, you know, they they have to live with those consequences. You know, they want to fight against this and say that it's not real. Well, that means they're not going to get the benefits of it. We know that there's benefits. We're we're doing great. If they don't want to do it, that's on them. You know, they're adults. You know, they can they can do what the hell they want. it's it's only they who suffer, you know, because it's not us, you know, because whatever they want to say about how bad what we're doing is, it's not. And so, you know, they're they're just the ones not getting the benefits and that's that's on them. So, um but yeah, so well, if you if you end up um you know, uh starting up a social media thing, just let me know and I'll put that in the description. Um otherwise, uh you know, people can um try and catch you on Facebook as well. So, Will, thank you so much. It's been a pleasure and uh we'll see. All right, Anthony. Thanks a lot. No worries. Cheers. Take care everyone. Hey guys, thank you very much for taking the time out to listen to what I had to say. If you like it, then please like and subscribe to my YouTube channel and podcast. And if you're on YouTube, then please hit that little bell and subscribe. And that'll let you know anytime I have a new video out, which should be every week, if not more. And if you could share this with your friends, that would help me get the word out and let me know that you like what I'm doing. Thanks again, guys.