Hard Facts on metabolism, Carnivore Diet, & Long-Term Ketosis W/Prof Bart Kay

hey guys just want to take a second to thank our sponsor carnivore bar i don't promote many products because honestly all you need to be healthy is just eat meat and that's what you should do but if you're hiking or road tripping or stuck at work and you want something nutritious that is just meat fat and possibly salt if you want it the carnivore bar is a great option i like this product not only because it is pure meat but also because i really want the carnivore market to thrive as well the more we support meat only products the more people will make meat only products and this will bring this into the mainstream so if this sounds like something you'd like to check out then take a look and use my discount code htc to get 10 off which also applies to subscriptions giving you 25 off total all right thanks guys hey everyone welcome to another episode of the how to carnival podcast and we're back with anthony chaffee the plant freemd and today we have a very special guest professor bart k who's well known on the interwebs for calling out nutritional bs uh that's that's how i discovered him anyway so but welcome thank you it's a pleasure to be here thanks for having me it's it's our pleasure to have you here uh but um i know that you're a professor and uh you're extremely experienced personally with keto and now carnivore um i wonder if you give us a little a little intro about the life of bark butt k at the moment yeah yeah i turned 50 earlier this year and i started the ketogenic way of eating way of life about 27 years ago well before it was cool well before it was known about and it was because i i was working with some academics in an institution at the time who were sort of on the cutting edge of this it was just getting started back then is a thing even though we've been eating ketogenic ways for you know probably four and a half million years um in the last couple of hundred we've forgotten all about that so it's when i say it's a new thing i mean recently um so it made sense to me i jumped on board with it back at that stage and i had quite remarkable it had quite remarkable effects if you like on my health i had up to that point a long history of quite serious mental health issues um quite debilitating anxiety believe it or not um agoraphobia even at one point for over a year i never left my house quite serious bipolar and then a bit later on down the track i ended up with fibromyalgia aromatica and other idiopathic forms of inflammatory [Music] algesa conditions of various different kinds as well ended up on a suite of pharmacological interventions shall we say and also had a very very serious blood pressure issue as well for about five years quite quite high uh quite high blood pressure and all of that resolved pretty much to i would say maybe an 80 health status and i maintain that so for about 20 years or so until about seven years ago when i started hearing about this idea that we should just eat meat and fat let's get rid of any vestige of plant material carbohydrates and fiber and certainly seed oils that might have been in our diet and our diet up to that stage um and being the soil is always being prepared to try the new thing being on the cutting edge and to do n equals one i'll be right let's do this so i did that about seven years ago and i thought i was eighty percent healthy it was nowhere near it it was more like fifty so that last five percent transgression against carnivore you would think oh well i'll get a five percent penalty for that five percent transgression because that would be fair and just and reasonable in the universe wouldn't it no you get a 50 people i personally got a 50 penalty off a 5 transgression um which is kind of a blessing actually because it means that you know that's the thing that motivates me to stay much closer to 195. um so that was my experience with the diet and the health etc um also i'm carrying probably 15 possibly 20 pounds less body fat awesome as as a function of the carnivore thing um my health in general not just the mental health but my health in general has improved vastly the fibromyalgia is a thing of the past um pretty much everything's on track so that's great um in terms of the background who am i where do i come from i come from an academic background as you can tell i've worked in various different universities over the years in new zealand australia the uk and the us teaching health science widely specifically i started out actually as an exercise physiologist first and foremost then i branched out into human nutrition and finally the last sort of five years or so of my career i was actually a specialist cardiovascular pathophysiologist so that's what i was doing in that regard and then in terms of various consultancies and things i've done i've worked with the australian defence force and the new zealand defence force on their fitness training requirements and how they decide if someone's operationally fit or otherwise a little bit to do with the nutrition as well although they pretty much ignored the advice on that surprise surprise um and also a funny little rugby team that wears black a lot and runs around losing to ireland and things sometimes have you actually worked with the all blacks yeah wow doing uh doing the exercise physiology stuff yeah it was on the exercise physiology side um at that time i was responsible for identifying the movement patterns required of all 15 playing positions during test matches played in 2010 and it was in prep for the 2011 world cup campaign so that they could train the all blacks specifically to what was required on the day because there's all sorts of guessing about what fitness requirements are important for athletes and military personnel and whatever so my approach was always to say well let's not guess what they need let's actually find out let's do the analysis so what i did was i sat through four entire test matches played in 2010 against four different international opponents and tracked the movement patterns of all 15 players throughout the match and it was using a camera that was mounted on the roof of the um grandstand looking down on the pitch and basically it was a manual tracking of every single player what's he doing he's walking he's running he's standing still he's tackling he's being tackled he's running onto the ball he's just going this direction he's going that direction this is the speed of movement across ground all of it so that was my involvement with that and then did you uh get a chance to incorporate like the diet and recommend i think last time when we spoke um you mentioned that that a couple of guys actually started taking on like at least a meat based diet if not a carnivore diet yeah a couple of them did at the time and at least one of those guys is still carnival even though he's now well and truly retired from international he still plays club rugby with rugby by the way in auckland awesome sure about the other one that did one of the issues was that the all blacks have a deal with sanitarium and there's adverts on tv here every five minutes see you know a current batch of all blacks sitting around a table at outdoor training having their weak books before training because absolutely you can't exercise without eating your wheat books first of course yeah um so you know they weren't prepared to to go that route and to suggest that obviously because that would be a problem yeah this sponsorship deal might have been why they lost ireland yeah maybe two million yeah that's it yeah like i know sunny build the highest profile all black is kind of oral oh is he 95 to 100 that's news to me as well okay yeah i don't know yeah him and um he and quite cooper uh did carnivore together probably about four year four or five years ago when quade was doing sort of his comeback um yeah those boys cycle into carnival and they need to for sure i do need to admit to being a rugby league man you know i have to hand in my kiwi card for doing that that's my new zealand card but um yeah rugby union is not the go for me i've it's always been rugby league first and foremost i actually was a referee for about 15 years too at quite a high level so um and having done the analysis on fitness requirements and stuff what you find is that league players are much more active during a game of league than union players are during a game of union yeah it's it's an amazing thing anyway that's for another day just sort of throw that in there yeah they never had they never had rugby league uh where i was in the states that was uh they had someone on the east coast but that was it it always looked looked like a lot of fun as well it was all my favorite parts of the rugby just you know just absolutely just smash mouth rugby you take the ball you smash someone and then you just get up and you do it again none of this you know the in the rucks and you know all that stuff was just like just tedious you know and you could you could you know tee off on people in in the rocks as well but it was just like you know the fun spot the fun part was just you know you know laying into somebody yeah you know and that's that that's that's all league is you know it's just like they've cut out everything else you know yeah so much more like um much more like than union is in that regard yeah except league players don't wear helmets from pads and stuff they just smash each other yeah yeah that's good it was even when i was in new zealand um you know playing down there with like the you know the the junior national team like people we were playing like with and against you know they were even saying they're like yeah actually you know you know yeah we play union but like we're league fans and like that's just that's just like the that was just the popular sport at the time even though like you know 15's i believe was is is and was the national sport you know everyone was like the actual popularity um was certainly in in league which was interesting yeah rugby union is the national religion here in new zealand but it's it's above a sport it's above you know any of that kind of stuff um yeah i mean when i was a schoolboy the the school rules were very very clear boys play rugby and if they also wanted to play soccer or whatever else they could do that on sunday yeah and and the soccer association had to set up the competitions for sunday because on saturday boys play rugby it wasn't even an auction yeah yeah that's funny yeah like um i've been trying to get you know the people you know back in seattle like in seattle sea wolves guys that you know i grew up playing with and uh you know we're sort of involved in that and uh and some of the guys you know they're playing now trying to get in into a carnivore diet and some of them have and but then they'll you know and they'll feel great and they'll say like you know i've never felt stronger i've ever felt better and then you know when i went home and you know like with my parents and had some rice but like just i guess that's it and then they'd like and that's it and they sort of give up uh you know i kind of remind them like well you can get back into it you know and uh so i'm like trying to like uh see how how i can sort of influence them to actually like take this up and like maybe even you know just just run it as like a carnivore team and just see and see how they do because like you know it'd just be phenomenally better for them you know and and if uh you know sonny bill is doing this you know i think that i think that's probably a good um endorsement ambassador yeah exactly but there are there are a number of league players as well in australia that have started going carnivore as well and just sort of rekindled their career you know they're sort of you know at that sort of the tail end of their career almost when they go carnivore and they're back in the mix you know and getting starting roles um yeah that's a shame though that that uh sort of wheat dicks had their hook in them because like just i couldn't i couldn't imagine any worse breakfast in my opinion at all no i can't either yeah just the cardboard yeah so let's let's dig in into the nutrition stuff a little um so but you're strict carnival more or less and you have been for a few years is that what you're saying yeah i started carnivore at sort of probably a 90 level about seven years ago and then a couple of years ago i went well this is not quite right yet let's go to 95 give or take and see if that you know makes the difference and it did make some difference it wasn't until i came across this idea that there were people doing really truly strictly 100 carnivore and getting fantastic results vastly better than even 95 um and so i hooked into that and i was challenged actually by raymond naison who is a carnival coach with bella's steak and butter gang and he contacted me a couple of years ago and said look i want to i want to coach you and i was like oh son that's brave you know wanting to have a go at coaching me are you sure you're really up for that and he was like yeah i think i can help you i think that 95 is great but i think you should do 100 and you know all of those and i was like all right son you're on but i'll tell you what we're going to do this open hand we're going to do it live on camera on the youtube channel you know if you if you've got the the kahunas to want to do this let's do it properly and that way let's make it so you know and so we did that and we did a one month 100 carnival challenge in january of 2020 i think it was or 21 one of those and i had quite miraculous results in terms of body composition and general health markers inflammation disposition everything really and i thought oh this is this is crazy i wonder if this works long term and then right about that stage all the uh the nonsense started happening around the world with that thing that we can't talk about that thing that's not a safe topic that thing that gets you banned if you talk about it in a way that they don't like that thing sounds spicy yeah that one um and so you know i got sort of distressed with all of the stuff that was going on there and there were other issues involved with that and et cetera et cetera and as part of that my partner lost her job and blah blah blah blah blah because these companies had to shut down because they couldn't operate in all of us and so i went back to sort of the default behavior of 90 to 95 carnival and my health fell to bits again and i was like oh okay well this is pretty clear and then come january this year raymond was back in touch again and he said we're going to do this again because you've fallen off the wagon here we need to get you back on track you're one of the most important uh influences he said so he was blowing smoke basically and i was like oh yeah of course i'm very very important he said so you've got to be doing this properly you've got to be setting the right example for people um so we're going to do this again and only this time we're going to do 90 days strict 100 but one of my biggest issues actually wasn't really a food related issue i was drinking too much and as part of the program you get control of yourself in all sorts of ways including addictive behaviors like drinking or whatever else and [Music] yeah over 90 days it was just absolutely stunning there is a five minute video on my youtube channel which outlines the before and after photos of 90 days on strict carnivore the before photos were at sort of 1995 the 5 10 transgression being low carbohydrate cider the odd packet of potato crisps because that's what you do when you're drinking and um [Music] that's about it actually but those two things combined so you've got seed oils you've got oxidized seed oils you've got carbohydrates you've got oxalates and you've got alcohol and the sugar that comes along even with the low carbohydrate version of the cider yeah anyway so there's dad bod basically in the before photo there's the apple shaped 50 year old man thing the sort of thing that you don't ever want to look like and it was it was horrific to me um and then 90 days later we don't have a look for yourselves after this if you haven't seen it it's well worth looking at i'll share the link to the video yeah it's um you know to go from apple shape dad pod to six pack in 90 days incredible who doesn't want that well exactly why wouldn't you and especially like you know the dramatic difference with you know you you're already obviously very strongly meat based you're just having like a few things outside of that and then to see that that marked difference uh i think it's just incredible i think i think it's you know it's it's a testament to how damaging this stuff is to our system and how just like a little bit can you just just really offset your system and your metabolism in such ways that it carries a much greater effect than than just the percentage of your calories or or you know the percentage of your diet that it incorporates you know just that first bit derails the system and then you can sort of pack onto that and then further throw it off the tracks but it's already off off the tracks you know and uh yeah so that i mean and i think it's a very powerful you know lesson for people you know when they they see that and they they see just this little offset and they go wow like that that's made such like for me it's i'm i have a complete aversion to anything plant and and that's because i've seen the difference it makes and and you know when i sort of got off all this stuff and i was doing this consciously not just like when you know 20 whatever years ago when i was just like avoiding plants all together you know i'm doing this consciously now okay this this makes sense for my biology you know i could see the difference and i remember thinking back i'm like you know how i how i felt basically the rest of my life you know i basically felt horrible my whole life i didn't i didn't even realize it and and now i don't and then i eat certain things and it's and then i don't feel as amazing anymore and so i just i really have an aversion to that and now i just like i have no interest in doing that so i think it's you know instead of being you know something that we feel down about and then be like well damn i i screwed up you know i'm no good at this you know just looking at that and be like it's actually a really good lesson you look at this music yeah i really don't want that i really don't want to live like that i really don't want to feel like that and now i'm going to be you know more uh resolved to to not do that like you say you know it's like just just a little bit throws you off track and so now you really don't want to even go off even a little bit yeah yeah did you you you said you were you were keto for like 26 years though so is that is that pretty strict keto the whole time pretty well yeah yeah that was the i mean obviously you did your video on um [Music] sort of rebutting uh paul saladino's you know take on you know ketosis long-term ketosis being bad for you and obviously i i you know i think that that doesn't really pass the smell test you know when you have entire populations and civilizations that have never eaten carbohydrates generationally uh clearly you know this isn't causing you know huge detriments to to to their health um but you know you're you're you i mean but you know they can argue that you know well inuits they have this you know some little variation that makes it okay for them but you know that that you know doesn't explain why you a a non-inuit has you know had had uh you know great success at it for 26 years can you talk about that for a bit yeah i mean absolutely there's this idea that some of the influencers and academics and even professionals semi-professionals people who are psychiatrists that think that qualifies them to be nutritionists are saying that being in ketosis all the time is problematic in terms of thyroid function issues it can be problematic in terms of electrolyte wasting for example um all the sort of things that pork saladin has been talking about among others he's not the only one doing it let's be fair i myself when i started the ketogenic diet and it was all fresh and new and all of that 20 something 27 years ago whatever it was something like that back then we kind of thought the idea of the ketogenic diet was to be in ketosis and to produce ketones and to have ketones actually that's not the case there are still people that still think feel that way think that way teach that way even to the point where you've still got people every single week i don't know how many times i see people coming on social media sides and asking the absolute experts that person these sites ta you know will this kick me out of ketosis if i do that as if being kicked out of ketosis is a bad thing well it's not a bad thing you are supposed to cycle out periodically and the way that you get cycled out of ketosis is by consuming a reasonable bonus of protein which will be gluconeogenic in nature and thus kick you out of ketosis for several hours thus resetting your kidneys ability to retain your electrolytes thus sending the message to your thyroid that all as well you've been fed etc thus preventing all of these problems folks that have issues with electrolytes or with thyroid function on a long-term ketogenic diet almost invariably these people have consumed an insufficient amount of protein for them so i can't put a number of it you must eat x number of grams of protein a day because i am 62 kilograms of dripping wet for example and i'm basically sedentary i'm over 50 years of age my needs are not remotely similar to antony's who is five years or so younger possibly you'd be over 100 kilos yeah okay plus still active still playing sport okay i play cricket once a week which is not particularly demanding so he's going to need vastly more protein than i'm going to need to kick him out of ketosis on a daily basis but if he doesn't eat enough protein for him he will run into that problem he will start electrolyte wasting he will start getting cramps and palpitations his thyroid function will go off he'll start losing his hair um you know things like that it fell out when i was 28 by the way that's what happened to paul paul is very very active and he's a bigger bloke than i am he's like oh i was eating all this protein and blood the other thing that paul did wrong is he was stuffing his face with organ meats yeah yes a little interesting to hear your perspective on that that's an absolute mistake when you look at the makeup of a beast in terms of the proportion of the edible portion of that beast that is flesh by which i mean muscle meat and what proportion of it is for example liver most potentially problematic what i suggest to people is there's no problem with eating liver so long as you eat it in that proportion which which i'm guessing would be like one one one hundredth of the muscle mate that you're eating or something like that in practice my intake of liver is none ever yeah yeah that's a technical term you can use that if you like yeah yeah i've experienced that yuckiness too well i mean i mean and that should tell you something you know if your if your your palate is telling you like you know no this is not desirable you know it's likely that your body's telling you no we don't want those nutrients or there's too many of them or or we've had enough uh or it you know it's bitter and bad tasting that there's something in there that's actively harmful and and you know so that's the idea that people say it's like well you know you need liver but if you don't like it then take this supplement i think that that's completely backward if you don't like it then you don't need it really that's my thought on it anyway exactly unless of course you have a business selling desiccated organs in this case in which case you have to promote the eating of organs and say it's necessary you must eat nose to tail great how did the last nose you ate taste yeah yeah like uh yeah well that's that's the thing too is um you know you're talking about proportionality you know if you took down a cape buffalo or something like that you as an individual be eating that thing for the next three years you know four years if it's a big one and how many livers does it have you know yeah absolutely yeah yeah but um you know so you know you're gonna have that you're gonna have one liver for that that entire multi-year period you'll call it two years to speed let's be nice about it one liver for two years like that's the proportionality there so the idea that you're just eating you know multitudes of organs and and plentiful supply you know it doesn't it doesn't really fit you know and um and also you know it's clearly in the record that you know a lot of different you know uh human populations really did not live nose to tail you know the inuit really couldn't you know the livers of uh you know uh sea mammals you know predatory sea mammals or are very toxic their vitamin a levels you know seals as and then even more concentrated in polar bear you know polar bear liver will just you know just i think even just like a bite of that will will have enough vitamin a to kill you so you know it it doesn't follow that we have to be nose to tail because there are plenty of examples of people not being nose to tail i have never been noticed to you know i've eaten liver i've literally bought liver twice in my my carnivore journey and it was fine and i never wanted it again you know and so you know that was you know that was that was me with that yeah absolutely agreed and you know having seen some footage of inuit doing inuit things um generally there's there's quite a bit of sharing around food the the men will sit around after a successful hunt and eat that fill before they pack up the remainder to take it back but all the entrails all the organs especially the livers guess who gets that it's the dogs yeah but one idea that anthony i have kind of thrown around uh to do with over consumption of organs is that uh when you eat a lot of carbohydrates it can block nutrient absorption in your body and so if you're eating a heap of organs perhaps the compulsion or the need to then eat a heap of carbohydrates to kind of counter this hypervitaminosis might be necessary uh just interested to hear if you think we could be on the right track yeah that could well be one of the drivers of the um what is ostensibly a an addictive personality trait we know for a fact no question unequivocally absolutely that the exact requirement for human beings in terms of carbohydrates on a daily basis in their diet is not one single gram ever none at all so people who say oh you absolutely must eat carbohydrates are people who either are addicted to eating carbohydrates and want to justify that behavior desperately by any means possible or [Music] they are people with an extra grinder bottom right hand corner to subserve or both i think our friend from costa rica is both but that's for another day um mostly people don't have a business don't have an axe to grind that way but what they do have is an addiction to carbohydrates which could be driven by all sorts of things including the mechanism you're talking about there and as such people will go out of their way to try and justify their behavior well you know and that's the thing is is that i think that that's you know very much hitting the hitting the nail on the head because you know they're now saying not only is it is it okay to eat carbohydrates but you should eat carbohydrates you need to eat carbohydrates and um you know that when someone has it has a drug or alcohol addiction they they're constantly trying to push this on other people because if other people are doing it too then then they're not doing something wrong and so say well this is just what everyone is doing so i'm just i'm just part of the norm and and that's how it definitely feels uh to me especially because you know i mean how they're doing things like you know like people are drinking orange juice or getting you know half their calories from orange juice you know so i can't really say that you're living in in a primal fashion you know because first of all those oranges didn't exist all that long ago and uh certainly people weren't you know weren't juicing you know even even back in you know the roman and greek era you know and unless you count like i guess olive oil i guess that's juicing in a way but uh you know but that's that's uh that would be it and so yeah i i think that you know you know and then they'll talk about like well you know you know since they you know did that like i think paul you know looked at his hp 1c and that dropped uh as well and and some other markers improved but you know the the thing that they don't really talk about is that you know he's like working out for like three hours a day you know he's surfing for like three hours a day just like very strenuous you know high activity level and and of course that's going to play a major role on uh on your health and your hp a1c and you know was he doing that before was he working out to the same extent i'm i'm fairly sure that the timing was that he started getting unwell and then he moved down to costa rica sort of to focus on his health a little more and then you know you know picked up his his activity level quite significantly so you know there's there's you know there's there's compounding factors there it's not just the one thing that he changed absolutely agreed yeah so i mean the other thing he's picked up since he's gone down there is you know a couple hundred thousand subscribers and supporters to absolutely maybe you're saying he wanted to focus on his health maybe he also wanted to focus on being a youtube influencer as well i'm not sure if he's actually ever practiced as a psychiatrist no i don't think so you know he he did his residency um and then i think he kind of finished that and then went straight into the into the world of being a youtube promoter so he's one of these guys if that is correct he's one of these guys like not dr michael greger who has never practiced medicine in his life either dr craig you yeah die and also make sure that you go and get a vasectomy yeah well yeah well if he's got a vasectomy maybe maybe that's a step in the right direction perhaps yeah he's already already like you know probably chemically castrated himself with all like the plant toxins and like lack of of cholesterol did you did you know that he is significantly younger than i am i i heard something about that there was like a photo of him with sean baker and he's like um you know 10 years younger than sean baker or something it's unbelievable yeah yeah you whip the snappers yeah there was a there was a great picture um you know that i saw and he was he was sitting next to a an actual eight-year-old girl who who had bigger arms than he did yeah you know and he you know i mean he's obviously you know a you know shorter slender person but he is still a grown-ass man and like that an eight-year-old girl a slender eight-year-old girl should would you really not be able to outgun a grown-ass man so that that was uh that was a bit of an eye-opener for me because otherwise you see you you don't see things in in uh proportion to other you know things around you you just see this picture of this person that could be however tall and um no no he's uh you know he's not he's not a large man yeah i've spoken to people who've come across him in real life and have eyeballed him and shook his hand for some reason and they they tell me invariably that the the presentation there is quite frail yeah really quite frail i mean the proof's in the pudding like if that's what you want to look like if it's the quality life you want copying well you know it's a you know dr fuhrman as well you know he he made a big splash with his books um so i eat to live or something like that and it was it was the gomes diet so greens onions mushrooms beans berries and seeds that was his original iteration he's changed it from there but you know he it was slender and looked like he was so sort of a you know a healthy slim middle-aged man now he looks very unhealthy and he's very i mean he's sarcopenic and you know he looks like he's you know stiff breeze is going to break his hip like it's not really going to end well you know and he's talking about like oh well you don't want all this muscle because you're going to be using more energy and that that burns out your life force faster i'm like i don't think that's how it works man you know like this is an example of people justifying their behavior desperately by any means they possibly can because there is absolutely no logic behind that no no i don't think so the the justification for this um was a something looking at like uh nfl lineman um who ate a lot and had had a lot of weight and they you know they had a shorter life expectancy than other things and it must have been because of of the of the weight that they had because they were just larger humans i was like um that's not even trying to be you know rigorous in any form i mean it's just like the you know nothing else going on there between you know the the rest of the population you know they're not they're not you know just getting you know 13 concussions every weekend you know and you know battering their body you know potentially using you know uh illicit substances to help their performance so that they can uh you know make it in the nfl something like that a few things happening there yeah and the real sad thing about society i think the real thing that's lacking out there is a requirement for people to be taught and to understand what science is and what it is not what it can do and what it cannot do and anyone who is running around saying science proves this or that or the other thing as that regards to any aspect of hard human health outcomes as is kidding themselves because there is no experimental empirical research science available anywhere in human nutrition what there is is a ring fenced area of ideology and theology underpinned by the almighty dollar and bought and paid for and it's an echo chamber that if you step outside of sticky head above the parapet and say something other than the accepted narrative you get shot down it's it's the most anti-scientific fraternity for one of a better term anywhere in science that i've seen anywhere other than climate change but that's also for another day another another unsafe topic to talk about on youtube by the way i have to have that one behind some sort of safe wall i think share it encrypt it on the interwebs that's the one i think uh we had uh simon and i had one episode talking about just regenerative agriculture and things like that and then like you know that sort of topic slipped in sure enough got a a warning sticker on that you can see you can see my my youtube channel sort of um progression at that time i was getting somewhere close to like for those previous two months because i just it just started hitting hitting a wave and things started getting popular i got something like 15 000 subscribers in one month and then i was getting gonna get 15 000 the next month and then that one hit sort of at the end of the month and it sort of just dipped like 13 000. and all of a sudden it's down to 3 000. for the rest of the time didn't it didn't come up there was one there was back in your box chaffey yeah it was a disinformationist you hmm and i had um like a short that went viral and at that time it had like 2.7 million views and and and you can you could see just the the views going up like this and all of a sudden it just went up like that and then just flatline right then right then and um so yeah so it had 2.7 million views then it still has 2.7 million views you know as months later because suddenly the entire population of the world changed absolutely fundamentally at a level of their personalities and what interests them and your video was no longer of interest suddenly to people that's what happened it just it just hit absolutely everyone who was interested in it and that was it saturated now yeah that's it you got everyone he did his job it hit absolutely everyone who you know gave a crap about it and that was it it was done oh good absolute um veteran of the world of being shadow banned by the fine folk at youtube i can tell you that's for another day too but i can tell you stories about i can even show you my back office and give you examples they don't even hide it they make no attempt because the thing is for those that don't understand those of us who are trying to make a living by being youtube influencers and this is my job by the way i don't have a braindex job anymore i do youtube i do private consultancies and i'm involved in marketing an adult stem style supplement that promotes the release of your own cd34 plus stem cells we can talk about that at some point too if you like yeah do it and another episode i think absolutely i think we should because it's really really a very very important area though those are my three income streams i don't do anything else anymore so i'm absolutely behooven on being able to get my face in front of people and the problem that we have in this industry is that there is really only one decent captive audience and it's the people who watch youtube that's where all my contacts professionally come from it's all electronic i never leave the house to work i don't see clients face to face i haven't sold a bottle of stem cell enhancing product to an actual human person that i've spoken to ever it's all online stuff and the problem is youtube world's 100 absolute authoritarian control over your visibility overtly over your existence even if youtube decides i'm persona non grata at any point and they want to delete my channel entirely or all my channels entirely for any reason they should see fit at their absolute woman discretion they can off they can take down any video they like and apply it weeks and months of ban and it it's it's an impossible thing if you are espousing a narrative that's not the acceptable narrative but i think the trajectory of views on this video just absolutely plummeted yeah but i mean the other thing is that youtube doesn't seem to care on their algorithm if you mention this particular fact okay yeah it's and you you your channel got got taken down for a while is that right what i actually did is i put it in stasis for several weeks because what happened was i made a video about a vegan loving individual who said a bunch of things that were fundamentally patently incorrect in fact and demonstrably so which you're allowed to do you can do that you can critique people online that's fine one of the rules that youtube has however though is you can't mention anybody's appearance in a derogatory way so if i say this person looks skeletal if somebody complains about it they can take that video down because that's bullying and harassment of somebody if you do that okay fine i got that stroke i learned from that that it's not necessarily safe to mention anybody's appearance you can allude to it you can talk about someone's health presentation but you can't say goodness me look how ugly this person's teeth are or wow look how skeletal this person is or whatever you know it's there but also the line is not clear it's it's gray and blurry in the way it's worded in the terms and conditions and that's on purpose so that youtube youtube can actually play favorites and do what they want to do um anyway i got that strike that was fine i've got a weak band fine whatever and then after that week ban i started uploading videos that i had taken down because when i got the band saying you can't mention someone's appearance of my 800 videos or so about 750 of those would mention someone's appearance so i took the lot down to protect from extra strikes because there was someone complaining it was an attack by someone okay so i started uploading videos again and i and i uploaded a video that was a live chat i had with phil escott and his co-authors on his book the red pill revolution and during that discussion we mentioned that thing that can't be mentioned that is a viral thing apparently as some kind of epidemic that may or may not be occurring in the world that may or may not be of importance to people et cetera and one or two of the gentlemen not even me one or two of them on that stream espoused opinions that were not in line with those of the fine fine world health organization and as such they took that video down and gave me strike two even though that video had previously been up on my channel and visible for over 11 months without a problem so now youtubers are now i'm in the sites about how they're having it they're really having a crack so what i then have to do is take down all my videos every single one because i can't anymore have any trust with youtube they're not they're not a good faith actor here clearly um they're trying to be punitive towards me so i had to take down all my videos and start a game from the ground up so that's what i've done and as such that's a real real cost on your momentum your views your visibility everything so basically the take-home message is that everybody should go and subscribe to my channel and hit the bell icon so that youtube completely will fail to advise you when i post new material also you should post comments under all my videos for al gore and his rhythms and you should hit the like button on everything or the unlike button it doesn't matter which as long as you hit one of them um and binge watch my stuff on repeat yes absolutely yeah well definitely people should and you you have a couple channels as well you're still running the multiple channels i am but i don't have time to upload regularly to them all um some of the other more minor channels are actually more like venues for this is where i am if my main channel disappears that's like okay but there are different videos there and there are different characters i play on different videos like the field marshall um yellow ted shows up on one of those channels quite often he's a good mate of mine completely uncontrollable but you know that's for another day as well um but you can find all my youtube channels listed in the show notes of just about every video on my channel if you just look under the blurb there'll be a link to all the different channels and stuff also people should be aware that i have a parallel offering on another platform where all my old videos that had to disappear from youtube still exist and can still be viewed that's good you could probably find that particular other platform if you took an odyssey of discovery around there around the internet um such an odyssey might lead you to find that other platform do a bit of digging yeah i mean but given that you you know can make a living talking to people on youtube um obviously there's a big chunk of people like us who are interested in what you have to say i mean what what kind of what kind of positive progress you're seeing out there in the particularly in the nutrition space i think that the truth about nutrition science or lack thereof the understanding of the actual hard science the real science outside of the ringtones area of so-called nutrition and science that actually does inform us on what the appropriate human diet is i think the the understanding of that is going up um often now i'm seeing people who are subscribed to my channel answering questions and uh in the chat or in the comments underneath in the exact way i would so the message is getting through and and it's being disseminated and shared with others that's that's a great thing also invariably on every given week i might get half a dozen or more emails from people saying thank you you've saved my life um fantastic i also get several emails from people who don't like me very much either as well but usually those sort of people that like to eat their fruits and vegetables and tell me that if they don't do that they might die yeah those kind of people um [Music] yeah so i'm quite a polarizing character still even though i no longer conduct myself the way i used to the sort of stuff that youtube didn't really enjoy yeah i'm still as abrasive and confrontational as i can be without quite so many short words or mentioning anybody's appearance or talking about unsafe topics to discuss where people's opinions are not allowed yeah well if you're if you're upsetting people and then you're clearly doing something right you know like uh you know they don't they don't um generally censor people that they can argue with you know because if you you know if you can if you can just shut someone down and debate you don't need to shut them down by other means you can just be like all right well you're wrong and here's out you know and um almost nobody is prepared to get in the room with me and even try and have a debate with me i would i would expect not you know i've um you know there have been people i've been trying i've been trying to get a hold of lane norton i mean just constantly ever since that guy came on my radar i was just like you know even just like it's just a just a friendly discussion i doesn't have to be a fight you know we're just like hey let's hash it out let's talk you know you try to convince me i'll try to convince you and um you know just do it in a friendly fashion absolutely no chance that guy has never responded to a single thing i've ever sent him um and uh you know and you know maybe he just hasn't noticed me i mean who who am i he's a way bigger following than i do but you know for whatever reason you know i haven't been able to get any uh any sort of uh interaction with him but at the same time you know some of his uh little spawn will well some like sometimes like say oh well lane norton says this that and the other like if you really you know if you really knew what you're talking about you would you would try to debate him but you you never will william was like buddy i'm trying you set that up yeah exactly like any time man lane norton also thinks that mess is conserved so wait he thinks he thinks what he thinks mass is and he thinks the conserved law of thermodynamics indicates that calories and calories out as a valid argument you know anyone that thinks that yeah good luck well i mean i mean even even you know even even if it were so i mean it's so much more complicated than that i mean the the the idea that you can just calculate how much energy that you're going to expend in a day without very sophisticated uh equipment is you know is nonsensical and you know depending on what you eat you will you your metabolism will change you know i mean you were talking about you know your thyroid and giving yourself enough uh nutrition so that you trigger your thyroid say hey you know we're not starving here when you i mean this has been shown by um you know multiple studies that if you if you actually limit your caloric intake your body thinks you're starving it actually reduces your metabolism by 10 to 15 and so you'll you will actually burn less calories so your in your your calories in goes down but your calories out goes down as well so you know it's not as simple as all that and even just being in ketosis as opposed to you know eating carbohydrates you on average you will burn 300 more kilocalories a day um when in ketosis than you will or on a ketogenic diet than you will eating carbohydrates so you know says oh just eat whatever you want just as long as the calories ain't calories out match it's like okay no first of all but like second of all how would you ever know you're never gonna know you know all right boys unfortunately my time is up for today i've got a race i've got a client contact hour starting now um it's been an absolute pleasure thanks for having me i'd love to come back again perhaps when we're not so limited on time and that we can really dive down the rabbit hole of some of this stuff absolutely not sure everything's great for coming i really appreciate it all right thanks see you