Foods To Eat vs Foods to Avoid For PCOS | Dr Anthony Chaffee

Welcome to the Plant-Free MD podcast with Dr. Anthony Chaffy, where we discuss diet and nutrition and how this affects health [music] and chronic disease and show you how you can use this to optimize your health and happiness both mentally and physically. Hello everyone. Uh, welcome to the PlantFree MD podcast. I'm your host Dr. Anthony Chaffy and today I have a very special guest joining me from Norway. Uh, Anin Ms. In thank you so much for joining me. It's a pleasure to meet you. Thank you for having me on. It's a pleasure to be here. A >> You're very welcome. Um, okay. So, you haven't really done uh, you know, a bunch of podcasts and things like that, so a lot of people probably don't know your story. So, can you please tell us a bit about yourself and uh, and your experiences with uh, uh, your dietary changes? >> Yes. Well, it's quite a long and complex story to be honest. [clears throat] Um, I've been low carb and keto for well more than 20 years now. >> In fact, uh, I started looking into it back when I got PCOS. When I was young, I was told I was never going to have kids. And, um, well, uh, I was going to settle for that. I wanted kids. >> So, I started reading and, um, soon I discovered the keto diet, Atkins diet. and uh uh well let's say I have two kids today. [laughter] >> So it worked out. So I um quite quickly found out that uh food is in fact medicine. And um when I uh a couple of years later I had um really bad car accident in 2015. Um I actually got partly paralyzed. I'm one of the few people who are um been u who had to learn to walk twice in life. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Wow. >> So that was um heavy. I uh went um I went um uh zero carb at the rehab and I quickly learned how to walk again, but I was in a lot of pain. Uh so they put me on a lot of different medications. Um and um I uh started to get worse. Um and I got um I had um chronic migraines already um from I was 12 years old. My whole family has that. And um I started having uh migraine attacks uh way uh more often than um earlier than before the car crash. And I also got fibromyalgia. I gained weight. Um and uh they always had a new medicine to try. There were no solutions. It was just try this, try this. Um and uh as soon as something didn't work, they tried um another set of pills or injections or whatever. Uh so within a couple of years I had tried more than 65 different [laughter] medications and injections and I was just getting worse and worse. Um so I spent all my days in more or less all my days in bed heavily medicated and um in pain of course and um was more or less um existing and not living. Um so it was a really uh tough years and um finally I um during these years I was so ill I um wasn't able to maintain a um decent diet. Um I um didn't have the energy to uh cook whole foods. I um I was more or less bed bound uh and um and in pain. Uh but finally I um I decided to uh well try to find a solution [laughter] um on my own and I uh went back to what I knew was um most nutritious and uh uh probably um best for uh my body. And um I started eating meat again. I'm sorry. I just have to get the dog out because she's barking so loud. I can't. >> That's okay. >> That's okay. >> Oh, now she's finally quiet. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, well, I um I started on a zero carb carnivore diet. >> Great. >> And um within days, I was uh feeling better. uh the pain from the fibromyalgia uh disappeared within days and within a week uh I had my first migraine fra migraine free day >> and um as soon as I woke up without any pains I u and it was on the right track and it was I've never looked back to be honest. >> Yeah. Very good. So, so what well I mean you'd obviously done ketogenic diets before and that it helped you, but what what made you do like the full carnivore diet side of things? >> Well, I knew from before that um the most nutritious uh produce there is is meat and um I figured that well I have a very thick and ill body or definitely need nutrients. Um and u I just well it made sense to me really that uh what is um most nutritious and have um fewest anti-nutrients uh would be the best for my body. So it's >> kind of the feeling of just remove what is bad [laughter] more or less and see what happens. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well that's good. And then so what how how long did it take you to start noticing uh differences and improvements? >> Oh, it was the first one came after days really and um so it was rather quickly. Um I was surprised how quickly. >> Mhm. >> But uh at the same time I went off a lot of meds. Um and I shouldn't I should probably not have gone cold turkey. I did that. I shouldn't have done that. it um [clears throat] could have been dangerous and I don't recommend anyone to do it the same way I did uh but I did and um of course had a lot of um bad reactions for cutting out the mats quickly as well. So it was a really tough months the first couple of months >> but at the same time uh it was um I was getting so quickly painfree. So it was no doubt it was the right way. >> I was so quickly convinced but I mean this was back in oh 2018 2019 yeah long time ago and um in Norway we didn't even have a word for it. So it actually took several months before I figured out this was uh in fact a diet. This was the kind of a diet. >> Uh I had no idea [laughter] at the time I started. I just went for logic and what felt good [laughter] or what felt better. >> Yeah. Oh, very good. And then so having having um used that yourself and and gotten extremely u you know better uh and wonderful results you know have you have you then started using that uh to help other people? I understand that you've sort of started some some groups and things like that. >> Um yes indeed uh we have um actually we have several carnivore groups in Norway now. [laughter] >> Very good. Uh it's definitely on the rise. Um and I started coaching um some years back. Um and I see I mean I haven't seen um anyone not having a good effect yet. >> Yeah. And um that's kind of um it's incredible uh really because I mean people have a lot of different um illnesses uh and still it works for almost everyone that tries and it's incredible. Um so um I um met with um a doctor here in Norway, Dr. Sophia Hexberg. I know you know her as well. and we wrote a book about it. Uh our own experiences and what we see in um well in my coaching clients in and in her patients and the diversity. I mean it's incredible. Uh the diversity in um uh in sickness that actually can be helped by the carnivore diet or the zero carb diet. We call it zero carb in Norway. We had to make a new word for it >> since it didn't exist. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, that was that was in the Facebook groups. That was what carnivore was called before it was called carnivore. It was zero carb like that as well. Yeah. So, that that's that's funny that you guys fell on that as well. >> Um, yeah. I would I would imagine that that Norway would be a good good place for this and you know just from culturally getting your head around it because it's just there's it's cold weather there's snow on the ground a lot of time can't grow crops uh for a long period of time and uh you know you had Viking history and things like that which predominantly having barrels of you know salted meat and fish and things like that go on these long sea voyages. So I have you noticed that people in Norway can wrap their head around this sort of diet a little little bit better than other people can or is it pretty easy to come across or still resistant? >> No, I think it's um quite many that are open to this idea compared to what I >> I see abroad. [laughter] I mean we're a lot of hunters um and um of course this makes sense to them. I'm one of them. So >> obviously it makes um it makes a lot of sense. We are quite still quite close to nature here. Um >> and uh I think it's um easier for people that know their food are coming from the farm and not from the store to get their head head around this. >> Yeah. You could also call it you could brand it, you know, the Viking diet as well, you know, and people can maybe get on that for nostalgic purposes as well. probably. But then they probably would crave me as well. [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. Like throwing axes and things like that as well. Yeah. >> Yeah. Probably go berserk every now and then. >> Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] Well, I have visit >> something. A new trend. >> Yeah. I have visited Norway and I did see one person go berserk and so at a at a club and just massive fight broke out. So like so it's still it's good to see old traditions still intact in place you know and uh [laughter] yeah >> not sure if I should be proud but >> yeah exactly that >> and um but yeah so um I've certainly seen a lot of people uh improve massively with these sorts of things as well but you know what are some of the things that the two of you found uh that you see people improving from that you wrote about in in your book or that you see regularly? or some of the more impressive ones. >> Well, uh we in book we have examples um on um attopic eczema uh diabetes too. Um of course uh menopause um many women have great effect um going through menopause. um PCOS of course migraines, fibromyalgia. Uh we have um is it called saridosis in English? I'm not sure. Yeah. >> Yeah. Um so we have quite a diversity of of stories and many more and also um quite a few that is using this diet for um optimalization reasons u really not for healing >> and I think it's um quite fascinating to see that even though you don't have any underlying illness you want to heal you can still benefit greatly um from this diet just by removing things we um are not optimized to eat. [laughter] >> Yeah, definitely. >> So, I think it's it's beneficial for um many more than just the sisters to try this. Um but um I'm not sure that everyone should try if they're already um well eating in a way they are responding uh nicely to. >> Well, yeah. and and but sometimes they they can. I mean, I I was perfectly healthy and and felt fine. I didn't have any diseases or anything like that, but then just on the principle that plants have these toxins and it's like, okay, well, >> maybe I'll just stop eating them. Massive [clears throat] improvement. Massive, massive improvement. I I didn't realize how bad I felt until I stopped feeling that way. And so, you know, for me it was um you know, I I felt fine and I was playing high level sports. started playing professionally. I was playing at university. I was in college and everything's going fine and I'm I'm able to outperform everybody else. And then all of a sudden I dropped these these plants and all of a sudden it's next level. I just I just turned into a superhero and um just like super human and my body just worked so much better and I felt so much better and then I sort of didn't realize it was just because I stopped drinking during the rugby season at the same time and so I just felt immortal now and I just was getting such better results and so much so much fitter and healthier and I chocked it up to stop drinking which of course will have a huge effect and also comes from plants and um and then I didn't I didn't realize how much the the, you know, the rest of the stuff, the plants were affecting me until I was in my 30s and, you know, I was still fine. I was still playing rugby, you know, at that, you know, into my late 30s and and being, you know, healthy and and when I work out, I get good results, but, you know, still having some stomach pain, some, you know, um, you know, discomfort in my stomach, some bloating. Um, you know, you know, if I wasn't working out, I was sort of putting on fat. I wasn't able to just maintain a lean healthy physique without constant exercise. Didn't have great energy. All that sort of stuff. And then I just stopped eating vegetables. Vegetables. Never I never never was a junk food eater. Just vegetables. Everything went away. And I just started losing weight and getting more muscular and and getting a lot more healthy. All this inflammation just dumped out of my body. No digestive issues at all. My asthma went away in two weeks. I had didn't have nearly any allergies to anything. I would have red eyes all the time. I it was just some sort of >> allergic reaction, I thought. And um but no, it was plants. The plants were actually causing that irritation, inflammation, and redness in my eyes. Within two weeks, I I'd never uh had red eyes again, unless I was overly tired or something like that. So, normal thing, but where otherwise my eyes were red all the time, all day, every day, and it was really annoying. and um and I hated it. So, you know, all that stuff went away and I I looked back on my life and realized that I've actually felt like garbage my whole life. I just didn't realize it because I had nothing to compare it to and now I had something to compare it to and I felt so amazing. It's just like never going back to that again. And so, you know, sometimes people, you know, I encourage people for health optimization like you're saying to give it a try because you you actually don't know how bad you feel until you stop feeling that way. And so, it's not just for people who get very sick and are are ill. They say, "Well, I don't have any sort of major health issues, so I don't need to do that." Well, but it's it's for it's it's for everybody. Well, I think it's for everybody really or at least to try, >> you know, and and u because it's just nutrition. It's just optimal nutrition. You're just getting the nutrients you need and you're cutting out things that can cause harm. >> It's [snorts] pretty simple and most people get a dramatic result from that. It's not going to cure everything because not everything caused by poor nutrition, but a lot of things are a lot of things come down to poor nutrition. Either not getting proper nutrients or getting things that cause uh inflammation and harm. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, you mentioned feeling like a superhuman. And I think that is um uh quite common. Most people describe it like feeling like superhuman or becoming a Hulk. When you talk to guys, they are really like, "Wow, I become a Hulk now." And it's I mean it's incredible. And as you say u most people I don't think they even can imagine uh the difference uh on how they are going to feel if they actually try this because it's the difference is enormous and when they look at plants I mean is it 99.9% of the pesticides in the plants is from the plants itself. >> Exactly. And then you have all the people um choosing uh organic, but I mean if you're still choosing still with organic, you have the 99.9%. So of course there would be a um a massive um well reaction in the body when removing all the toxins. Of course people have great results. I mean >> it's logic. to me at least. [laughter] Remove the toxins and get great results. >> Yeah, exactly. And yeah, I I think it's exactly that simple as well. There's nothing magic to it. It's just you're just you're just properly nourishing your body and avoiding things that can cause harm. There are other things that cause harm as well, but this just eliminates, you know, that source of them, which is actually a much bigger source than people realize as they soon discover after eliminating these things out, as as you discovered when you eliminated these things out in your own diet. >> Yeah. But also I think um very many um get um wow feeling when they're actually well fed when they um get the nutrients they need because they are not used to that either. [laughter] So if you see someone um drinking let's say um raw milk or um eating um a fatty beef with enough butter on [laughter] >> they they get a whole new experience of what what is eating is all about. I mean they get a new physical feeling like being full in a new way, being satisfied in a new way. And they haven't had that before. And it's um it's amazing to see like something is happening in my body. Yeah. It's called nut nutrition. So I mean very many get um they are so um I'm sorry I totally lost the words. [laughter] >> They get um off. You have to cut this out. [laughter] >> So sorry. >> No, it's okay. You're right. they could get so surprised um of the effects because they it's beyond their level of imagination really. They think they know their bodies and um suddenly they got a new body. >> Yeah. >> And um I don't think people can imagine how great that feeling [laughter] really is. Especially not for someone who's been living in a ill ill body and with pain sorrow. >> Yeah. exact thing. Well, that's that's the old saying, right? That everybody has has, you know, a thousand problems until they get until they get sick and then they they only have one problem and everything else is not an issue anymore. They don't realize how little that was, you know, while you're in good health uh or, you know, until you get out and you lose your health because that that's such an overarching issue. If you're if you're bedridden, you're in chronic pain and you you just can't you can't function, >> doesn't nothing else matters anymore, you know, because you can't you can't address them. It's just like that's the main thing. You can't even get out of bed. And so having your health is the most important thing. >> And so, you know, what what should you focus on to be the person you want to be in 25 years? You know, there's a there's a very interesting thought experiment that that I heard where I said if you look at where you are right now and then okay, what are you doing? You're working hard. You're doing all these hours. You're doing all this stuff to earn money to build a business so that you know 25 years from now you can be successful and rich and wealthy. No matter how much wealth you've accumulated, no matter how much money you have, no matter how much things you possess 25 years from now, you will trade all of it to be as young and healthy as you are today. And that's profound because we're trading our youth and our health for, you know, that that sort of money down the line. And that's important. You know, you need to sort of sacrifice now for a better life later. But you have to you have to also be appreciative of where you're at now and the health that you're at now. So it's not only just grinding yourself down to earn money to build a business. Fine, build a business, be successful, but focus on your health, too. you know, do the things now that in 25 years you're going to maintain that health or maybe even be healthier than you are now and improve your health and so that you can be 25 years older but just as healthy and be able to enjoy the fruits of your labor and of those 25 years as well. And I think that's that's really really important because no matter how old or young you are, you could be 70 and at you know 95 you will trade everything to be back at 70 you know because it's you know you are you are a lot younger and healthier. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. So don't don't trade your I mean you have to trade your time and things like that for certain things but don't trade your health you know improve your health the whole time because you know if you're you're working hard and then all of a sudden you end up bedridden. >> Yeah. And >> I mean I was on the way to work uh when when um I got in a car crash uh that's uh nearly 11 years ago. I've never been back to that worky place. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> So, I mean it can happen like this and um I mean it happened to me, it could happen to anyone. >> Yeah. >> And so all the effort you put in in career or whatever, it might be worthless within a second and then it's actually you're left with your health and your health only. So it's so um it's extremely um extremely important to take care of it as you say because it can change in a minute and um in 20 years you want to keep your health. Definitely. >> Yeah, definitely. Yeah, >> I tried both. [laughter] >> Yeah, >> I definitely prefer healthy. >> Exactly. Yeah, you try [laughter] both. You know, try eating normal, try carnivore, prefer carnivore, try being bedridden and then ambulatory and healthy. Definitely go for healthy. >> Yeah. >> Well, but at least you tried. You know, now you can say definitely. [laughter] Yeah. Like the other one. >> Yeah. >> The perfect example that diet is actually a good thing. Sometimes >> it could be healing. Yeah. No, I think I'm I'm the perfect example both in um how um uh how bad it can go when you um price more or less everything uh that you are given without um being able to say no. I mean in Norway we have >> um when you get sick um we have this uh arrangement so you don't go bankrupt while you're sick. Uh but so you can get um money from the government covering your um basic needs. Uh but then you have to um accept whatever treatment they offering you uh to get the money. So you can't say well I don't trust this medicine so I'll pass on this and then still be able to feed your kids. So we have to say yes until you pretty much tried everything there is to try. uh even if you get sicker while doing it, I mean you have no choice really. And um so luckily there's diet. That's the only thing. Sometimes you can uh control yourself because sometimes you're put in a position where you can't control anything except what you put in your mouth. >> Yeah. >> And um people underestimate the fact of what they put in the mouth. That's for sure. >> Yeah, definitely. U Yeah. I I totally agree with that. And even just from you, you're in an accident, your body needs to heal from an injury. You need nutrients for that. And >> of course, >> you know, and then obviously bringing in things that cause inflammation and slow down your body, that's going to make those injuries even more painful and harder to recover from. So, it's it's very simple, but it's, you know, food is medicine. I mean, it's it is what your body runs on. And if you don't have the proper nutrients and you have improper proper chemicals or toxins, it causes harm directly. And so the combination of those things can actually be quite profound, which is what people are seeing. I think that people just don't realize how important and impactful proper nutrition is. They just think, well, it's just food. It can't be that big of a deal, you know. >> Exactly. And then probably they are laying in the hospitals and getting served [laughter] the food they are serving there as well. And I mean >> there's no nutrients in that one. >> It's just ridiculous. So uh very many people they I mean they are not even able to choose what to eat >> and hence they are not able to get better because they are you can't get a hands on what on the food that would actually get them the nutrients they need to heal. >> Yeah. >> So it's quite um quite a broken system in my opinion. Have you guys worked with other doctors or medical teams in Norway to try to in introduce the idea of food as medicine? >> Uh well Sophia, she has um um several clinics together with her husband and um other doctors. So there are studying to be quite a few actually both trying out the diet on their own and teaching it passing it on >> to other patients and um I guess I mean it's been little known um the car diet uh in Norway but I guess it's um really coming to getting to be uh more known now as the book is out. Uh we um started um it's been selling a lot. So we're actually in number three uh most sold in um the largest bookstore in Norway. >> So people um will definitely start hearing about it and as soon as they start hearing about it then they start speaking about it and then people start to >> discover what's all about. But you know the mainstream media they um try to uh [laughter] try to pretend we're not existing. So no one will discuss a book that's um this um well what should we call it? Um rebellious. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Against the governmental advice. Yeah. Well, yeah. And and not even just governmental advice, but the industries, the food and drug companies that that make a lot of money um and with the status quo with things as they are, >> you know, maybe they don't they don't want things being shaken up. >> No, >> of course not. I mean what if we if we we are right then what uh for the society uh and for the production and industry and everything if people actually starting to listen and then do as we do then what it's quite a scary thought really um imagine the changes that have to come if um people stopped uh eating ultrarocessed food and started eating real whole food again. >> Yeah. Exactly. And and focusing on on meat and cutting out all this other stuff that has things that that aren't perfect for you that can help you survive may taste good but isn't necessarily as as healthy and safe for you as as eating fatty meat. And yet and we vilify fatty meat and say, "Well, people understand that concept. They understand that that and accept the concept that certain foods cause disease, but they just got it backwards. They think that red meat and and animal fat >> causes heart disease and diabetes and cancer, etc. It's polar opposite from the truth, >> but but they get that idea that that food can cause harm. They've just got it mixed up. And so, they just need to understand it's different food that's causing those diseases. >> Yeah. Get that a lot. Red meat causes cancer. Red meat causes colon cancer. I mean it's never been done any real research on uh red meat alone. So you can't really say if it's u in this research if it's the red meat or is it the smoking or is it what is it? I mean it's um uh research is difficult and um most people never read research. They just read the headlines uh of what a newspaper think the research is about and there you have the problem >> because most people they will never ever find out um what is really um what is really going on. They are never going to go to the source themselves. Uh so if they're going to um figure this out, they actually have to try. So um people should well stop listening to experts, stop reading um all the research um headlines and then just test it and test it long enough. I mean it's so many yeah I'll go carnivore for a week or two and then no stop test it for at least at least 30 days preferably at least 90 days is what I usually say. Uh but um yeah, >> people do as they like. I can't convince anyone. Can just tempt them. >> Yeah. Well, and that's the thing too is that all studies can do is is give you an idea of what might be beneficial to you or harmful to you. And then you just have to decide what evidence you believe, what you what you believe is the strongest and best for you. And then you just try it. Because no matter what a study says, the only thing that matters is is what your actual results are. Um, and I guess this the scare tactic they use is that well yes you may be feeling better and you may be losing weight and your diabetes may be gone, your blood pressure went away and you came off these medication, your autoimmune diseases went away, but 20 years from now you're going to get a heart attack or cancer. It's like I I actually um don't think that that follows that if you're reversing all of these very serious illnesses that that's actually causing other illnesses. generally illnesses come beget other illnesses. You're doing things that all of a sudden you're stacking these up. You're getting diabetes, then you're getting high blood pressure, then you're getting hypertension or or um cardiovascular disease. You know, these things run in patterns. And if you're if you were reversing all of those things, they're strongly not even associated, but strong risk factors or even causitive agents for cardiovascular disease, etc. How can reversing those be then increasing your risk for that that disease? It doesn't make any sense. And um you know so it is important to address that and show that well no actually there's no there's no high level evidence showing a cause and effect relationship between meat even processed meat and um and cancer or even cardiovascular disease. There's a large systematic review looking at all the metaanalyses and randomized control trials and and epidemiology and all the different studies that are available um out of the University of Washington in Seattle, you know, a few years ago, 202122, something like that. and um and they looked at over 800 studies and they found absolutely no link or connection between uh even processed meat and cancer or cardiovascular disease and certainly none with unprocessed red meat. The few studies which was a couple dozen showed extremely weak association correlation uh with between processed meat and cancer. Uh they said in this study, and I quote, "These were junk studies and lazy science because they were just they're very poorly designed. They didn't take away confounding factors. They said that pizza and McDonald's were meat even though 90% of the calories came from plants. And uh they didn't separate separate people who ate this stuff uh who smoked and drank and had other sort of high risk factors. And still there's only an 18% increased risk association which in epidemiology isn't isn't even significant until it's over 200%. So it's garbage. And that's what the WHO cherrypicked. They picked those few studies that had that had weak study weak associations that were junk studies and lazy science and they said this this proves that cancer is a known carcinogen and that red meat is probably a likely carcinogen. Um, you know, then people like to try to conflate. So, false, you know, and there were people on that panel with the WHO uh working committee that even said that they were on that committee and they said it was it was the most difficult thing they ever went through in their professional career because they saw these people throw away hundreds of highquality studies that showed no relationship between meat and cancer in favor of those weak junk studies uh that showed a very weak correlation. And he said, he called them out. He said, "Look, you're all vegans and vegetarians and Seventh Day Adventists who, you know, religiously avoid meat, you know, you need to declare your biases on this, you know, and they refuse." So, so people think that that's that that's real science. It's not. It's horrible. and and then they and then like the the plant-based ad advocates will then um you know confound the the argument further by saying well this is a class one carcinogen as said by the WHO which is up there which is in the same category as cigarettes and plutonia. My goodness. Do you know what else is a class one carcinogen? Daylight and working late. All right. So this is not this just an absurdity. So you can say that you oh processed meat is is a class one carcinogen. Yeah. Just like daylight, just like sunshine and just like you know working late and working shift work, you know. So it's um it's very dishonest the way they do things. It was dishonest to put them on as a as a class one carcinogen in the first place or even a class 2 carcinogen um when the data shows clearly that it is not. And in fact in the pure study there was a large uh study done by McMaster University um they actually found that increased meat consumption did not increase any delotterious health risk and in fact had had a protective association with cancer as well. So, you know, we just we just see dishonesty throughout the literature and throughout the institutions like the WHO who is known for dishonesty. Um, which is why when I when I when I refer to their website on um toxin on on natural uh toxins found in food and it's all plants and mushrooms and things like that, people oh well the WHO like yeah but that's the point. it is the WHO and they're extremely biased against meat and even they're saying that plants are toxic you know and they they can cause cancer and even kill you. So you know so that actually you could actually trust that because they are so biased in the other direction that if even they are saying that plants are are u have toxins probably should listen to that. [laughter] >> Yeah. I mean they've been cherrypicking the research since what 1960 or something. >> Yeah. >> So um and I mean there no intensives uh for um research um uh on on meat to prove it's um >> well the good things about it. I'm sorry my brain is starting to get tired now. [laughter] Okay. >> Um and uh I mean no one will ever uh invest in researching um the benefits of eating uh only meat. I mean it's the economic interest that um that decides really what is going to be presented as advice. It has nothing to do with nutrition. It's uh all economy. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I guess it it just be, you know, I mean, that's when I when I put out videos talking about the benefits of meat, you know, I get I get no money for saying that. No one's paying me to say that. It's just that's exactly >> purely my opinion and my uh and what I see in the literature and and what I see in my medical practice, but they say this is the beef industry paying you off. It's like [laughter] they don't pay for any of this stuff. Um, you know, the the processed food industry, the plant-based industry is a multi-t trillion dollar industry and the pharmaceutical industry is a multi-trillion dollar industry and they both benefit from the same things. You know, pushing processed plant-based food. This causes chronic disease. um according to whistleblowers like uh Cali means they know it causes chronic disease and um and then they're profiting off of the back off of that on the back end by selling us all these medications and pharmaceuticals to treat those those metabolic diseases and things like that. So it's big business in both directions. They're heavily invested in each other >> and I'm just sure to tell you everything you need to know. >> It's the perfect business idea to be honest. It is. >> Yeah, >> definitely. >> So, it's just um well, in my opinion, pretty unethical [laughter] making people seek to earn money. >> Very unethical. I mean, it's like it's like, you know, well poisoners that go around to poison and come through and sell people, >> you know, the antidote. Oh, I can help you and fix you and things like that. I mean, it's like Yeah. I know. I mean, they used to hang people like that, you know, and um you know, they used to get lynched and and um and probably, you know, and for good reason because you could kill people and you're causing harm, you're you're causing disease, you're causing illness, you're causing, you know, decades of ill health and and then early death. And you know, at least with the the well poisoners who then sold you the antidote, you know, at least then it was like you weren't suffering for decades and then dying young. These guys, the pharmaceuticals, they they're not trying to give you the cure, you know. In fact, yeah, they don't want the cure. And and Goldman Sachs has been, you know, called out because they had some some, you know, documents leaked and uh meetings leaked where they said, you know, it's not a good business. Uh it's not it's not good business. um practice to cure diseases because then you know but if you just treat the symptoms then you you have a customer for life and you can just treat them forever and you can just treat their symptoms but if you cure the disease then that's it. You can only treat them once you only get money from them once you know and um and that's that's really unethical. That's extremely unethical. Those are the only options you have then sure you know go for the go for the treatment rather than the cure. But, you know, intentionally not doing that, I think, is extremely unethical. And and suppressing cures and people looking for cures, I think, is extremely unethical. Uh Goldman Sachs, that was one of their one of their missives. They sent a letter to Gilead, which is a pharmaceutical company in Ireland, I believe. And in 2013, I remember was my my intern year, they came out with a cure for hepatitis C. They had never there was only chronic treatment before that. They came up with a cure. And Goldman Sachs uh went after them and said like, "Hey, you should never go for a cure. You really messed up because now you just shut off this entire pipeline for money for going going forward." is like, yeah, you know, make a new treatment that's a little better, helps with the symptoms better, and then is patentable, and then 20 years later come up with a new one that's patentable so you can keep making money. That's how you make money. This is a terrible business idea. And um you know, I guess the threat being that I don't know if they said this um directly, but you know, if you have an investment firm like Goldman Sachs that is telling you, hey, you messed up, um that that implies that they're not going to invest in you. They're not going to give you investment money. in um if you uh if you keep going down those business practices. Um and so either way, but that that's you know intentionally preventing or encouraging people or or you know maybe maybe telling them it's the wrong thing to do to look for a cure. I mean that that's insane. I mean that's ridiculous, you know. I mean you don't want to look for the cure. That's your business, you know. But don't stop other people from looking for cures. That's that's that's crossing the line. >> Yeah, definitely. I totally agree. >> Yeah. >> But I think also people have to realize that um they are able to find solutions on their own. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> I mean read, listen, check out listen to your podcast. I mean instead of your doctor um the people are so um [snorts] they blindly listen to authorities and uh that's a real problem [laughter] these days. >> Yeah. And um but you know the thing is is that we just it's important to understand that they are not looking for cures >> and so that's fine. We just we just need to know that and so you know we need to look for cures >> doctors other independent researchers and patients and it's most important for patients because you're the one suffering and definitely you know if you're not looking to help you you know you can't assume >> I mean it's also the patient's responsibility we're all responsible for our own health and our own body of course >> and that's probably one of the problems that people are willing giving giving it away. I mean, giving them uh their own health away and the decisions regarding their own health. >> Yeah. >> Like, what should I do? Well, I have no idea. I don't know my body. I just listen to anyone that gives them the advice. And if people just started to listen to their own body and um just notice what does the thing I eat do to my body? I mean it's really easy if you just pay attention. So I think it the problem is also that we're so disconnected. We don't just the signs we get from our own body. So we have no idea whether this food is good or bad because we we are probably just looking at Tik Tok videos instead. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. People are so distracted from their own health and their own life and their own uh body, they don't even realize what um the things they do, how it impacts. >> Yeah. Yeah. And they're probably watching Tik Tok videos about eating plant-based and sticking on nicotine patches and that's going to cure everything that they have, you know. So, >> probably. >> Yeah. >> Wash it down with Red Bull and everything is fine. >> Yeah. Exactly. [laughter] >> So, yeah. Okay. Well, I mean, thank you so much for for your time and sharing your story. That was it was really a heartwarming story. I mean, it's incredible going from that position that you were in to then leading a very happy normal life, being told you're never going to have kids, and then having two two kids and then now giving, you know, doing something more and helping other people get that same benefit. So, thank you very much for your work and for sharing that with us. >> Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I really, really appreciate it. We actually mentioned you in the book as well. So, >> thank you. >> So, we are recommended all over Norway. >> Oh, very good. >> You know, on page 84, [laughter] >> Oh, yeah. Nice. >> We have a we have a section about you and how you um >> how how you contribute to promote this diet and how we appreciate it. >> Oh, well, thank you so much. I appreciate that. Very good. >> So, now you know. >> Oh, well, thank you. Yeah. Well, and so for people that are that are interested in it, um you know, does is it available in other languages or just in Norwegian or and how do >> uh just in Norwegian so far, but uh hopefully there will be some interest and we can get it translated. >> That would be good. Yeah. Or certainly, you know, yeah, translate it just into English. Anyway, you could get >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Get a lot of >> I think this is um a bit different from the other carnival books that's out there. Yeah. >> So, um >> yeah, >> it um I hope it will be translated. A lot of research in it, [laughter] >> I bet. Yeah. And uh Okay, great. So, so people that do speak Norwegian uh or read Norwegian anyway, uh how do they how do they get your book and and you guys have a website or anything like that they can go to? >> Uh yeah, well, they can go to my website carnivore.no. Um or they find it in all bookstores all over the country. So, >> okay. >> Yeah, very good. >> It's available most places around here. >> So, even though we're a small country, then um hopefully um we can get kind of a diet um >> Yeah. >> on the top of the list. >> Yeah. >> Well known. >> Yeah. And it's called null carbo. Is that right? Or what do you call it? >> Yes. N carbo. You actually pronounce it correctly as well. Impressive. [laughter] >> Yeah. Very good. You want to show the show the cover so people can can see it and see what they look like. >> Yeah. >> There you go. >> Yeah. Carnivore on Norwegian. It's under the title. >> Oh, very good. Yeah. And >> so we had to use both words because um I mean carnivore is word known. So if you only use naru then people would probably be a bit um confused. But at the same time, nul carboh is the most describing word for this diet in Norwegian. >> So we think it it's kind of self-explaining. So um yeah no I hope really hope people will um read about it if not trying so >> at least read and understand reasons behind why it's working because even if they are not interested to try themselves then suddenly they might have a partner a kid a parent that um gets the need to try it. Yeah. >> And people should know there is um it might be a solution even for quite severe illnesses. >> Yeah, definitely. >> It's worth a try. >> Absolutely. And it it's it's just basic nutrition. So you're just you're just eating you're just eating the nutrients that your body requires and you're excluding things that can cause harm. It's just basic nutrition and so it's not going to hurt you. You know, first do no harm. That's a tenant of medicine. So fat certainly not going to do harm by definition. Just essential nutrients in prop proper portions is not going to cause harm. Um excluding things that cause harm is not going to cause harm. And so you know you can you at least start from that that basis of safety and then you just see you can just see if it helps great and if it doesn't >> you know you're not you're not losing anything. >> No but if it doesn't help then you're probably doing it wrong. [laughter] >> Well there's that too. It's just in my opinion. >> It could be. Yeah. Well, it's going to help in in in a certain respect. Like you will be better nourished and you will be removing things that cause harm. And so if you're doing it if you're you are doing it right, you're eating enough, you're eating enough fat and you've excluded everything else, >> you should get better. I mean there maybe not going to cure all things all the time, but it will improve your health >> generally. And that's the main >> you will get some beneficial effect. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. Exactly. Perfect. Well, great. Well, thank you so much for coming on. It's been an absolute pleasure and really appreciate you sharing your story. Yeah, absolutely. >> Thank you for having me. >> Thank you very much. Thank you all for watching. Hopefully you enjoyed that. Please send this to someone who you think would benefit from this or needs encouragement and feels that they might be in a similar position. And if you're in Norway, uh, check out, uh, the book No Carbo. Thank you all very much. We'll see you next time.