Dr John Jaquish, PhD special guest interview!

all right hello everyone this is uh dr anthony chafee i'm here with a very special guest dr john jaquish and uh he is the an author best-selling author and inventor uh in the exercise physiology world um he has a book called weightlifting is a waste of time he also has inventions that that help support osteoporosis and actually uh can actually reverse osteoporosis um to at least a certain extent we'll talk more about that and is the inventor of the x3 bar which is uh you know band resistance uh training that um you know full disclosure i actually have one myself and i've used it and actually really like it so uh dr jack wish thanks so much for coming on how are you sir anthony thanks for having me yeah you you call me john like no no he calls me doctor perfect please also my last name is really hard to uh pronounce as we were just discussing yeah so i don't even want to have to try and spell that or anything yeah sounds good um now my website is just dr j.com that's why oh okay yeah perfect yeah uh d-o-c-d-o-r letter j.com just yeah you know best people will never get my last name right yeah yeah probably easier mine too i don't know like i i was um when i wrestled like in junior high in high school like the announcers could never get the name chaffey they just could not figure it out and so i've had you know i wrestled you know four five six times in a in a meet and they would pronounce my name differently every single damn time and right i remember once it like it didn't even have i didn't even start with like a ch name it was just some just large gibberish nonsense and i was like well it's kind of what i'm supposed to be up and and that that seems like i'll just walk over the mat and see and like my coaches were there so i'm like yeah i guess i guess that's me it's that's me like you know abernathy you know that's i guess that's my name now that's first name anthony yeah so yeah good enough yeah and um so it's great so um if for people that don't don't know who you are can you tell us a bit about yourself and the work that you did yeah i'm a doctor of biomedical engineering i did i started in life sciences because my mother was diagnosed with osteoporosis i wanted to help her and developed a series of devices that would mimic uh like like high impact forces so high impact forces into the body absorbed into the bone mass at very specific actually impact ready positions so for example like this kind of position for those not watching like back of the hand in line with the clavicle 120 degree angle between upper and lower arm that's how you trip and fall that's how you're going to protect basically your face from hitting the ground and the body's very efficient at reacting in that way uh we are seven times stronger in the impact-ready range of motion than we are in the weaker ranges of motion however we keep doing something really stupid we keep lifting weights if you're seven times stronger in one part of the movement than you are in the other part of the movement why the hell would you lift a static weight that's dumb like that's clearly not how the body works and so i went to develop something that matched our biomechanics or at least came close because now what we're doing just regular resistance training it's the same weight on the bottom where you have 1 7 the capacity of what you have at the top so you basically pick a weight when you go weight lifting you pick a weight you can handle in the weakest range of motion and really you're stimulating very little musculature but you are damaging the joints chronically uh you know and peter atia dr peter tia he's said this a number of times says my problem with weight lifting is we overload joints and under load muscle yeah i love it i mean he was sort of thinking the same way i was and this is he said it's like during like while i was developing this so like wow you know he and i are thinking right along the same line uh and he's a really fit guy but he does kind of focuses on endurance exercise because he's like weight lifting's just not it yeah and uh and i love that he made that comment and made perfect sense to me because it was right in line with my research so i compiled a bunch of research uh pretty much everything on variable resistance and determine not only the variable resistance wins against regular resistance training hands down every single time uh there's one fraudulent study and i i believe it was it was malice that drove the study uh where the variable resistance group well the control group was allowed to lift however much weight they left in the gym so whatever the relevant weight is but the variable resistance people were only allowed to train with theraband and uh which goes up to 14 pounds yeah so they're only allowed to lift 14 pounds and then you know the conclusion was that variable resistance wasn't good well this you know the whole test was rigged yeah like no one's going to get stronger from 15 pounds of force you use more strength for your shirt on in the morning so uh yeah i mean it was just like a stupid study but other than that one which is fraudulent uh 19 out of 19 studies find that variable resistance uh puts on muscle much faster gets you stronger much faster uh faster recovery zero muscle soreness uh like it turns out like soreness is not lactic acid you actually cannot feel lactic acid soreness is from micro tear damage which is inversely related to growth so the more damage you do to muscle the less muscle you grow so it's fatigue not damage so the whole idea that we need to get little tears in our muscle and then they grow back you know better false that's not how it works at all if you have damage then you won't grow if you don't have damage and you took the muscle to fatigue then you do grow that's you know another myth i wrestle with sometimes if i just decide to talk to confused people which i spend some days doing and usually it's just like just ignore these people they don't they're unwilling to learn anything uh but we do live in clown world today so there's a lot of people who are unwilling to listen or learn um coincidentally i i think the internet's really run by a certain group that's very easily identified in the dun and krueger study in 1999 you familiar with that um i've heard of it yeah yeah yeah yeah okay yeah it's it's my favorite study you'll definitely bring it up at a cocktail party i promise um and what it really says is that the dumbest people think they're the most competent and smartest people yeah i mean that just explains the internet yeah like you see people making sweeping statements like this is the way things are and they don't even know the definition of the word the words they're using but they're not intelligent so what they don't know doesn't stop them because they don't know what they don't know yeah whereas the smart and here's the funny part in the in the smartest people thought they were a little above average they didn't think they aced it right they were you know they said i i did great but i had you know i was confused by a few different puzzles and questions and stuff like that and because the smart person knows what they don't know therefore they question a lot of things yeah you know is this all the information have i even been given all the information to answer the question whereas the dumbass doesn't think about that yeah they just you know i know the answer everything yeah was that you know tom sowell um who you mean i don't know i love thomas i think i've read everything he's written yeah yeah he's brilliant like one of my favorite people yeah yeah same and um yeah one of the things that he said that has always stuck with me was that it takes a lot of knowledge to understand just how ignorant we are and uh unfortunately you know a lot of these people you know will never get there and so they think that i just know everything i just i'm just you know i i can see everything all the pieces of the puzzle and they you know they only see a small piece of it you know and it's you know the old saying uh you know small bit of information is a dangerous thing you know and um and that's and that's exactly what uh i think is being described there is these people just you know think that they can see the whole puzzle and extrapolate from that and uh the entire picture and of course you know that's very difficult to do um socrates as well you know i mean he said that you know he was said to be the most uh wise man in the world but he's like how can i be wise man i don't know anything i don't like why me and he went around talking to all the most learned people that you know like like the study show there's these people thought very highly of themselves and you know he just started talking to them and asking him questions and realize these guys didn't know jack but but they also didn't know that they didn't know jack and he at least knew that he didn't know jack and so he was like well all right i guess and uh yeah yeah it's um this is kind of a sidebar but um i've always tried to uh like hang out with smart people because i can learn something from them you know and not smart people that i might meet at some shitty dive bar or something like that i'm just not really interested in talking to them uh and so yeah i i realize that like i pretty much like my social time is like spent at like private clubs like i just i joined like all kinds of private private clubs because i just don't want to i just want the [ __ ] quotient to be lower i don't want zero i mean that's impossible but but you know when maybe 50 of the people in the room are like actually have something interesting to say like that's gonna be a great night yeah yeah yeah definitely and um uh yeah that was uh i think it was oh who was it i mean comedian um carlin he said that you know if you think about it you know the average iq is 100 what does that mean it's an average so that means that definitionally half the people that you meet in your in your life day-to-day basis are below intelligence you know it's like that it's like that's a pretty frightening thought but you know it's um it's uh i knew i've certainly known people that aren't as intellectually gifted they still work hard and and still you know recognize that they they don't know certainly and try and don't try to act like it and and they actually become very very uh successful and interesting people you know they just uh you know they just work on it oh yeah somebody doesn't have to be a genius but at least know that you don't know everything yeah yeah exactly that's very i i think like like no matter who i say this to no matter where they are on politics i just think of the dumb ass posts you see in politics and either direction it's just like people are just saying outlandish stupid [ __ ] like the [ __ ] did you get that yeah right i mean now chances are they probably got it from cnn because cnn lies and nobody really checks but uh yeah that's like when somebody posts something like ludicrous i'm like did you get that from cnn yeah yeah and uh yeah well and yeah and that there was a there was a study out of colombia um it was like 2015 or something like that that came out and they found that uh 52 of people who comment on uh some sort of internet post and then talk knowledgeably like you know like you know saying is like well no no this is wrong and this is why 52 of them have never clicked the link you know and so they're just going off the headline and they're just there you know the author of that study no give me an ad you know like i'd love to reference that yeah all the time i'll i'll look it up for you i don't i don't have it all put in the show notes i think everybody wants to see that that's awesome yeah yeah yes i i somebody will like the headline might lead you to believe that the study is about like how carbohydrates are good but really the studies about how you don't want carbohydrates in your diet and they'll just jump to a conclusion based on the title yeah or or yeah you read these these first thing i know i i first sort of looked at that well you know actually just reading the who um uh studies when i was 13. i probably one of the few people who who was fact checking the who when they were 13 but you know they made they came out with this this outrageous claim that that that cuba had a better health care system than america i'm like there's nothing yeah yeah yeah oh and anyone who's in cuba that has a problem yeah they're out of that country they're canada there's somewhere else it's trying to get right if they can you know if they're able to yeah or are they just dying yeah exactly and so you know i was looking at i'm like there's not a chance in hell that that's the case but there was a lot of stuff you know getting pushed out that you know cuba was so great communism so awesome it's like how how how is that possible and this was this was 1993 and i was just like you know the berlin wall just fell like four years ago like and we're already saying communism is better like what and um you know so i ended up like finding the study from the who and they and they ranked they ranked uh the cuban healthcare system as one of the top five healthcare systems in the world and they ranked the us as like 76. it was way down the line you know some marxists that wrote the article well you know the head of reportedly the head of the who at least now is is an open marxist you know and uh so i don't know if it was it was then but you know there's there's a political bent to to these international institutions and certainly with the who and well and they're also getting paid off like whoever wants marxism yeah and anyone with money wants marxism by the way because it institutionalizes them yeah as the bank yeah nobody realizes that like like why do all these rich people want marxism it must be good for everybody no they already made their money yeah they want to be the lending institution they know they're the only ones with money and nobody else has money somebody has to come to them when they want to start anything start a business build a house whatever yeah yeah if you're you're you're a billionaire worth maybe you know 20 million minimum like you're going to be then you're going to be one of the new banks yeah yeah and uh yeah and so uh this this article yeah i was saying we were way down the list like 76 which i was just like too far you know if you said that we were like 10th and cuba was like fifth i'd be like um i don't know but you know i wouldn't have looked into it but it was it just really overshadowed egregious yeah right and so i looked it up and like the study you know this is 30 years ago i looked at this but you know from memory it was something like they took they basically ranked countries by the actual you know medical care that they received access to doctors and and uh specialists and and outcomes from all these different things and things you actually you know consider worthwhile when considering a medical system um and then said well that's not fair though because you know other some countries are richer than other countries and so you know you're working with what you have um so adjusted for wealth yeah by gdp so you know so so us um talking about a worthless study absolutely so they we're going to tell you exactly how it is except we're going to adjust it yeah based on some other metric that you didn't ask about yeah exactly and and they don't tell you about it either you know who this is this is the first of three that i've seen that are exactly like this they put in they put in these uh little qualifiers they just you know make it uh complete [ __ ] and they um yeah so they they divided by gdp so us actually had the number one uh medical outcomes and access to doctors and and you know treatments for heart disease and cancer and diabetes and traumas and all these sorts of things and uh but we also had the number one gdp so our ratio was one to one and cuba had a terrible health care system terrible medical uh outcomes but they also had these wars but yeah they had a more worse gdp and so they had a positive ratio and so i mean that that's just i mean that's knowingly um i mean if you were raising money to like invest in cuba and you use that that data yeah um you could be you could be sued uh for investment fraud yeah yeah yeah absolutely i'm very familiar uh with uh yeah i got tangled up with some dudes who got in trouble for that uh a long time ago and um like they're like you know kind of first business sort of thing and uh yeah these guys were just defrauding people based on whatever you know information that was dubious or completely falsified if you really look into it yeah yeah yeah um yeah the who does that a lot as well and i have i found that if if you you see something on the wha website and it and it has a link to the article right there and it just sort of shows its work yeah it could be pretty much uh you know it's probably their conclusions are probably in line with it right when you have trouble finding that study yeah there's a reason you have trouble finding is because they don't want you to find it exactly and i've noticed that they did they did another one when i was in medical school where they ranked the us as 37th and you know a lot of things came out people saying oh well you know we spend the most per capita uh on healthcare in america but we're only ranked 37th we're not even getting like you know you know our money's worth um and again i was just like i don't think so i think that's [ __ ] and so i looked at the study again it looked at had five criteria one of which was anything actually worth knowing about which was medical outcomes and access to doctors access to mris and x-rays and that was yeah the only variable that matters let's dilute that by four other variables yeah and um one of the other ones yeah and you know one of the others i you all all the others were sort of along these lines but uh one of the one i remember in particular said what percentage of the lower 20th percentiles medical bills do the upper 20th percentile pay for and and the answer that of course is who gives a [ __ ] because what does that have to do with your mom dying of cancer or not you know and uh and so and of course you know the the only relevant criteria which is actual medical outcomes and access to care we were again number one and but they diluted it down and they had these fudge factors to make it appear as if the us wasn't great and then then another one came out a few years later ranked us 40th and i just didn't waste my time reading it because i knew this garbage you know but um you know that's that's the thing is that you know all these studies you i i try to you know stress on people you have to read them yourself have to read the studies yourself don't just read the conclusion certainly just don't read the headlines you know when you're going through reading news reports or whatever there's always going to be a catchy headline but does the article actually support that headline and that conclusion quite often it doesn't and it's really important to actually read the article yeah i uh i just started a tic-tac-tock account and i think half of my posts i've been just like dispelling myths yeah and you know one of them was like somebody posted uh or somebody published in the new england journal it was a chinese study that got published in the new england journal so already i'm like um yeah because that that never happened up until like biden became president uh like because we know how their medical system works and we know how their academic system works and need to reconcile with how we do things yeah so don't really know how they pulled that off anyway so they published this article that determined that uh intermittent fasting didn't do anything in calorie restriction was the way to go now anyone who's really read into this and compared the two studies like that's just not true uh and uh there's a whole host of reasons but when you know anything about intermittent fasting like the real benefits started 18 hours well they cut the fasting group at 16 hours and on top of that they were allowed to eat whatever they wanted yeah like go ahead eat just anything you know three chocolate cakes whatever so they really weren't dieting and they and they only like it's like they just had an early dinner basically is is what is how they pull off this 16-hour fast period which is not real it's like like skipping breakfast like you're not a hero for that you're gonna you're gonna do intermittent fasting let's try 72 hours how about with no food or water yeah like that will get you incredible results like with the metabolic water that's leeched out of fat cells unbelievable the results you'll get out of that but let's do that study and coincidentally when that study is done and there was just one done uh with five days five days no food no water these people all lost 15 pounds of body fat this is after rehydration oh wow in five days they're averaging three pounds fat loss per day nice so right right so like i i just pointed out this new england journal study is not worth reading because when the benefits start at 18 and they only did one for 16 hours don't read it yeah it's dumb they didn't even need to do this study we already knew that didn't work yeah well also it's it's not really controlling for that either you know because you're having these people eat different things you know if you want to just control for the timing of it you know and that and having that makes difference you've got the same calories same basic sort of important and that studies been done and it came out much more positive for intermittent fasting yeah as soon as you have like one group eating whatever they wanted they didn't even control it it's like we don't know they had 2 000 calories or four thousand yeah like yeah yeah yeah it's not yeah i i i agree that's a that's a bit of a ridiculous study um as as far as fasting goes i i've certainly seen a lot of studies that show that fasting is very very beneficial um and then there's also studies that look at like fasting mimicking diets which is basically ketogenic diet you're just getting into that uh you know metabolic state uh the so-called fasting metabolic state you know we spoke about this uh you know briefly off there uh but i i think we both sort of uh agree that um you know the so-called fasting metabolic state you know uh probably is our primary metabolic state and we only call it absolute yeah and we only call it a fasting state because by the time we were able to look at you know our biochemistry at a molecular level everyone was eating carbohydrates and just said oh this is what it looks like when you eat right and you're right you have to constantly eat carbohydrates yeah exactly and and so you know when you get out of that you know things work much better and then people get these these these large benefits uh from from maybe from fasting but i think a large part of that is going to be from just being in the in the correct metabolic state um it do you know of of studies that you know because most of the studies that i've seen are really just comparing fasting or fasting mimicking diet just to a standard american diet are there other studies that actually look at the difference of uh like fasting as compared to like a keto or a carnivore diet like as both will be in the same metabolic state not yet no like carnivore like we just had the first like that where they actually use the word carnivore yeah yeah this is i mean uh i'm probably preaching some of the same stuff you've been talking about but like previous studies and there's one uh i don't remember the author usually pretty good that uh i just don't remember the author of this one um it was an epidemiology study uh and they found a thousand people like it was this is the one that said uh meat and colorectal cancer like you increase your chances by two percent [Music] you when you read down the method section you realize that these people ate nitrate meat not steak they like a gas station hot dog you can't even buy nitrate meat in the grocery store anymore so i think it's only like prison food and maybe maybe what a gas station can get because it keeps that's what nitrates are for preservatives so people that ate nitrate meat every single day seven days a week for 40 years yeah had a two percent greater chance of colorectal cancer yeah okay now were these people who were eating a gas station hot dog every day were they doing it for their health yeah probably not if you know anyone who eats a gas station hot dog every day is there a higher chance that they may have some other unhealthy habits smoking drinking cocaine heroin meth yeah like i mean the only people that i've ever seen order a gas station hot dog were living behind the dumpster next to the gas station and they really liked meth so i mean they didn't control for any of that yeah nothing so it was it was another one of these fraudulent studies one of these studies it was created to mislead you yeah yeah and i mean like like the the bias is just like outrageous like yeah on earth would you like you know exactly what kind of people you're dealing with like this isn't a study this is a hit piece on the meat industry yeah and you know i tell i tell all my fans like why you you you'll notice like the funding from a lot of like pro carbohydrate studies comes from some like you know nutrition uh institution whatever sounds really academic and governmental yeah no it's [ __ ] these are all organizations that are owned by like nabisco general mills like they're just selling you the [ __ ] they make they're telling you doritos are good for you because they want you to buy more doritos yeah yeah that's right it's just yeah but i mean we've had that kind of [ __ ] forever like yeah yeah i mean let's see general motors cars not that i have a problem with a company general motors but you know like 300 awards from jd power and associates yeah you've heard that right yeah from like a chevy whatever chevy cruze and they have awards for like best 30-day satisfaction it's a brand new car if you're not happy in the first 30 days like yeah that's probably a pretty shitty car i mean they have to have an award for that it turns out jd power is a company that you can just go and buy an award from oh really they're paying me and they'll just award you for whatever oh i should get a couple yeah yeah it's phil phillips yeah yeah i mean i i want one that just says i'm [ __ ] handsome yeah most handsome guy in 2022. dr j yeah from man town yeah right it just just like it's it's companies do this yeah and the food industry is no different the difference is it can hurt people right you know whereas general motors says comes up with some weird metric to say their cars are great and uh you know if you check one out you like it it's probably a great car but uh not not because of the awards so so my point is nabisco and kellogg's and general mills and dannon all these companies that are buying research they're doing it to sell the products and they also know they want everybody to go vegan because they know vegans don't eat kale vegans eat cookies and cake that are just you know like oreo cookies you know oreo cookie sales are just through the roof it's because vegans yeah well yeah and that's the thing you know people don't don't know that the you know oreo cookies are vegan it'll say on there you know like vegan friendly and it's like are we trying to say that that oreo cookies are are good for you you know like just the um i'm sorry there's some weird alarm going on here let me just sort of all right i think that's over oh i was trying to clip that you know you're in australia maybe somebody wasn't wearing their mask that could be yeah and they just have to get the the snipers out uh certainly yeah you've got to kill them before yeah you just got to go you know you're not going to conform you know you're going to be oh my god they fooled me they keep doing this where it's like it'll just go for a little bit and then it'll stop and then i'm just hopefully that's that's actually it but um sorry about that um yeah um so i guess what was it where was i going with that um i sort of forgot we were talking about research being funded by snack food companies and how it's just so fraudulent oh yeah oreos yeah yeah and then like you like those articles that will come out every now and then it says oh you know drinking a you know three glasses of wine a night is better for your heart than an hour of cardio i'm like get lost like that i remember that i remember that study right and from one tiny metric of metabolic health i think was just like how much alcohol raises your heart rate versus like a light jog and by the way like i don't jog like that no yeah my heart rate goes way up if i'm moving yeah like so what the hell are they talking about anyway yeah i remember that article it was really popular in women's magazines like elite daily ran that [ __ ] like 10 times yeah yeah because that's what people want to hear people want to hear that they can still have cookies and cake and have the body they want you know any any it's like that's great until you ask anyone who's in shape and they're going to be like no that's super not the way it works yeah well all that food just don't even view it as food like when somebody says like you know you want a pizza i'm like it's not food yeah yeah i won't eat that it's just not yeah i totally totally agree and that's you know people say it's like you know obviously i do you know carnivore sort of diet people say well is that that's so restricted like i don't think so you know i'm i'm eating food i'm eating you know food that is designed for humans i eat all the food that's designed for humans and i don't eat poison like that's i don't think that's restrictive you know i was like are you restricted by you know you don't shoot heroin or do crack well that's pretty restrictive you know here's here's how i answer that question i say like once you realize what should be consumed by the human body it's not restrictive at all no in fact you're eating the only thing that should be eaten by the human body yeah like everything else is just crap that you were marketed to yeah like it's just marketing like you don't want doritos you don't want i don't know where right oreo cookies yeah oreo yeah you know like someone tried to hand me an oreo vegan like as i was at like a party like a year ago she hands me like a sleeve of oreos and she's like i know you want these and she's kind of kidding you know like she's vegan seriously like i would if i found that in my car i'd throw it away yeah absolutely like it's trash yeah in fact you put that in your body you're just gonna fall apart yeah yeah and it was true and uh you know people say that well you know even people that want to you know do a vegan diet you know it's it's you know vegan means just without meat you know it's not even plant-based necessarily that's vegetarian you know vegan just means no animal products whatsoever you know so you know that you know oreo cookies are vegan they're also vegetarian you know crack cocaine that's that's vegan it's also vegetarian it's plant-based and so is heroin so heroin yeah so it's like you know are we really saying that that you know that uh that rocks and and uh heroin are the way to go here you know just as long as it doesn't have animal products you know then it's okay or plant-based and it's okay but of course there's so many things that that we recognize you know full well that that are causing some serious harm and so i mean not i your neither of us really give vegans a hard time we just promote meat as healthy food but when you plant a field what do you need to make to make the vegetables grow you need manure yeah from animals you need bone meal yeah just ground up you know bones from slaughtered cows yeah like those are the two things that they put in the soil before planting a field never mind the fact that they might have killed thousands or even hundreds of thousands of animals to build that field and they have to continue to kill and poison animals that are coming into that field because the animals it's still their habitat yeah it's not like they got a map and they're like you're not allowed here anymore yeah like they just go there birds go and try and eat corn and they get poisoned by the millions seven billion animals in the united states are destroyed every year for the sake of vegetable farming oh wow i didn't know that yeah if you took poultry so if you combine pork poultry and um uh beef you combine those three things it's about equal it's an equal amount of death but 70 of the standard american diet is plant-based yeah so even though it's 50-50 when it comes to killing animals um more the calories are coming from plant-based so they kind of like ignore that like oh but if you take a chicken out of the equation and you just look at beef and pork yeah like the amount of death that plants create is insane and like i think it was something like maybe like five million cattle per year would feed everyone yeah yeah well yeah 500 pounds of muscle meeting each one of them yeah i mean there's a lot of food yeah that's a lot a big cow you know okay if i had my own you know space land and i had bison running around on it i mean i'd eat like one and a half animals per year yeah maybe yeah i mean i mean yes but yeah depending on size i mean those things are massive bastards and uh yeah of course you know chickens obviously are smaller so you need you need more of them to go more yes yeah and the and very you know glaring difference between these two uh statistics is that the animals that we're killing to eat we are actually eating them more whereas the ones that we're just killing to get off our our crops they go to waste and so yeah yeah yeah that's why like a vegan doesn't know that and if they they're told that they just they put it out of the mind you know like it's an achieved ignorance like i'm going to ignore all of these facts what did joe biden say like we don't we follow truth not facts oh yeah yeah that's the president united states said that oh well yeah yeah it's not awesome pretty pretty sure pretty sure you know i will said so but you know he got elected yeah so we're told yeah um 81 million people voted for him quite a lot yeah most ever yeah more than ever yeah and um so you were talking earlier about um you mentioned that you know people want to sort of do the same thing and and then get and get different results we sort of sort of touched on this before coming on air uh but that's one of the things is that we we have uh you know people that you know you've said that you you've received very very threatening messages when when you just say hey you know like if you want to lose weight you want to get in better shape you know just cut down on the carbs or maybe just eliminate the carbs and and people get very very upset by that and um and then you know the people that are like get death threats because of the carbs which is which is which is crazy i mean this is just you just you're just a uh you know a doctor and a scientist trying to put forward uh you know evidence to help people and and this somehow infuriates people when when you're not yeah by the way by telling people to eat less carbohydrates and more protein i make no money yeah not my business model at all i'm just trying to help people out yeah like this is just like like i make nothing yeah yeah like people would just go and eat a pizza hut every day and you know use x3 and get a protein minimum and there'd be a bunch of muscular fat people yeah yeah instead i try and tell them like well if you want to be leaner now there are some people who are like you know i've been leaning my whole life uh i was have a different kind of metabolism i eat all kinds of [ __ ] and it doesn't seem to have much of an effect on me i also notice those insane people who claim to have no appetite so it's like yeah they go and eat pizza but they're also never hungry so do they eat a lot of pizza obviously not um but you know if somebody tells me that it's like you know it's not my problem i'm like yeah if you get if you get your protein minimum one gram per pound of body weight um yeah yeah i guess if you don't tend to be addicted to these things or if you take them out of your system and then put them back in do you feel any inflammation some people say yes some people say no hey you know limiting carbohydrates doesn't necessarily mean eliminating them and i even do do have a protocol in the book that calls for some carbohydrates to stimulate hyperplasia so you uh get you know a surge of muscle glycogen going into musculature after workout uh but even replacing the by the way replacing glycogen estimates up until recently were ridiculous like maybe for a large muscular person maybe 20 grams of glucose is required right not you know that's not even a snickers bar guys yeah that's nothing yeah that's how much muscle glycogen is yeah and so people say like oh i'm flat i don't i don't feel full muscles it's like but you're obese so yeah how about you like let the muscles take the back seat for now or your perception of what your muscles are and we were talking about this last night um a lot of guys like they feel like they're losing muscular size like oh it's because because i'm losing all the glycogen out of my muscles no it's because you had intramuscular fat yeah which you're losing yeah which is good you know yeah you don't want that you don't want to be well marbled no when something eats you you want to be the toughest piece of meat they've ever come across yeah yeah exactly also don't get eaten yeah you know that's not really a thing yeah today yeah well if you you know if you get um you know in in the wild also like if you if you're just you know a bunch of lean muscle mass you know you're gonna you're gonna be harder to kill you know and you're gonna be killing more more often if you're you know uh uh you know overweight have a lot of inner muscular fat you're not gonna be as dynamic and uh dangerous you know on the wall it's just you know that that's sort of a survival thing as well and you know people forget that we we feed carbohydrates and grains to cattle in order to fatten them up and put in intramuscular fat to get that marbling that we like as predators for taste but you know that is also in turn happening to us when we eat carbohydrates and grains and that's what people don't understand and that's you know something we spoke about last night where um i think that you know as you know for me from my athletic background and and uh career i always felt far better now i did i you know i played you know high level rugby both on on carnivore and also on not on carnival just because i didn't i didn't know as much as i do now so i didn't i didn't really notice when things sort of shifted off so you know i know that you can get in remarkable shape uh by eating carbs and eating normal things i never really ate all the processed crap and sugar but i just i was almost entirely eating meat but i would have some a salad or some bread or whatever every now and then as well um but still you know mostly meat based and you know i was i was in very good shape and was very muscular and defined and uh and was able to perform very well but i always performed far better i was just like just a different human being when i was on carnivore and um and you know when i talked to people about that you know like with the bodybuilding community they really go into they just slamming in as many uh calories as they can always make carbohydrates i keep talking about calories like yeah and carbohydrates are not even a macronutrient like nothing in your body needs carbohydrates there's no i mean other than muscle glycogen which like i said that's like a drop in the bucket that's like nothing for carbohydrates other than that yeah which by the way uh your body will make if you don't have it probably not for hyperplasia purposes because you need a rush of that you need it like in the muscle so it stretches it's like an actual mechanical stretching process to stimulate hyperplasia but still like carbohydrates are exist in nature to get mammals fat yeah that's it and and for certain animal species putting on body fat very quickly is advantageous uh i mentioned this last night too bears give themselves type 2 diabetes every year now type 2 diabetes is not a pathogen it's the system of the body i would say it's not a dysfunction it's a function that we make a dysfunction by our behavior because what the bear does every year is they give themselves type 2 diabetes and then they put on fat very quickly which helps them survive the winter because they just dig a hole and lay there for three or four months you can't do that if you're lean but if you're real fat you can do that yeah yeah um [Music] yeah that's the thing like you know with bodybuilding they want to just pack in all these calories and they think that equates to muscle growth i don't i don't think that there's any really keep getting fat and they have to die and they're torturing themselves yeah screwing up their metabolism because they're also still doing caloric restriction yeah which my biggest gripe against caloric restriction it's like yeah it doesn't work for a period of time and then you have a metabolic adaptation so that you can be at a deficit and then you start putting on body fat again because your body is just deprioritized a couple of things like regenerating skin regenerating uh digestive cells so you go through less autophagy and use older dysfunctional cells there's a question about cancer there too you know like people that never get into autophagy tend to be i mean this is a theory but it's a theory that makes an awful lot of sense uh so you're never renewing your cells when you're in this calorie negative but also not losing body fat metabolic adaptation and some people screw up their their metabolisms for a long time like there was a study not that long ago on the people who had been on the show the biggest loser six years ago yeah their metabolism still doesn't work oh great yeah six years yeah they've had a metabolic rate so that even when they eat at a deficit they're gaining body fat jesus yeah so i mean like that that's all you really need to know like calorie deficit and and also the bodybuilding community loves to simplify things into like memes like all of their advice is going to come from a meme like a sentence fragment like five words yeah and so they love calorie restriction calories in calories out that's all that matters jesus that is like so oversimplified it's wrong yeah yeah so that was one thing i was talking to um professor ben bickman from byu about uh was that you know and he's been studying uh insulin and its effects on on on humans for 15 plus years and he was saying that you know when your insulin is up your your metabolism just goes down and so when you're not eating carbohydrates your actual basal metabolic rate you actually use like you know 300 300 or 400 more calories just running your system uh than you would otherwise and so you you know and so yeah even if you wanted to argue the the calories and calories out thing when you change your metabolic function you are you're going to be using different amounts of calories just just for your basic function and you know like you say you're gonna you're gonna you're not gonna start you're recycling these cells that takes energy and you don't have the excess energy at the moment uh and that can certainly uh keep these different genetic changes uh that could could precipitate the cancer as well i'm glad you mentioned that so when you have low energy your body doesn't recycle cells or recycles less yeah there's always some you know metabolism of cells going on far less but if you eat zero calories can your body adjust to zero no it cannot this this is why i promote it intermittent fasting like your body won't adjust to zero so you can fast hard you know dry fast like no water no food 72 hours like three days you'll lose three pounds of body fat a day for most people i i'm a little bit less because i'm already pretty lean but um i'm actually tomorrow i'm coming off like well right now it has been 48 hours since i've had any food or water okay do i seem foggy do i seem confused no i feel [ __ ] great yeah it's it's it but but here's the thing the body cannot adjust to zero okay so when you're fasted [Music] it has no choice it's going after body right and then um so obviously this is something that you do how often do you fast how do you how you sort of work that into your schedule what do you like well just to sort of i wanted to come up with a protocol that people would follow because you know hey the best diet in the world doesn't mean [ __ ] if nobody follows it yeah so like it's got to be like followable so i've been running some experiments with myself based on some of the things i've read i was trying to do like one meal a day at a deficit so not a huge meal reasonable meal and then be faster the rest of time i think my body perceived that as just calorie restriction and i didn't really get as much benefit from the fasting because it was still on a 24-hour cycle so um i i hit a metabolic well i had an adjustment so i was eating very little and seeing almost no fat loss progress and i even gained some body fat and i kind of did that to see what that protocol would be like that protocol worked for about six months and then for another three months i just got nothing and so i was in the middle of a lot of traveling and i didn't really have time to examine it and when i went back to re-examine what went wrong should i just quote refeed and just go back to normal carnivore and then try and do this because i gotta help people lose a lot of body fat like that's just part of part of the customer base like there's gonna be overweight people and gotta help them they they may need the most help these are the people that walk into the gym and trainers don't want to talk to them don't even want them as clients because it's embarrassing standing next to an obese person i'm not saying that's my attitude my attitude is the opposite of that yeah but that's how they're treated in gyms yeah overweight people are not welcome in gyms in fact ceo of one of the largest gym chains in the world told me we have a policy to tell overweight people to go somewhere else because we want our place to be cool we want a nightclub with treadmills just good looking people that's absurd yeah yeah yeah but that's the business and i mean this guy is not a bad guy the guy told me this yeah he's like we're there to make money um heavy people are bad for business and i was just like what those are the people that need the help yeah the people who show up and they're already in great shape like they're probably doing 10 other things they don't need the gym no but that's just the way the world is like you know every everybody with a business is trying to grow it now i'm fortunate you're fortunate because we got a business that the better we do the healthier people get yeah which i think is that's that's like i wouldn't live a life with any other formula yeah right like when i come and i also i don't have a great like bedside manner i tell people to shut the [ __ ] up and do what they're told because like there's a lot of research in this a lot of people pined over it and it's really important and it's gonna fix you but i don't want your editorium i don't want you to be like well yeah but i need to have a pizza while i watch a football game and you don't actually yeah no you don't yeah like you don't need to eat it all you're watching maybe you should pay more attention to game yeah you know whatever like i don't care what your excuses it's an excuse yeah and i'm not accepting yeah exactly um like you have to be like that yeah so now now are you doing intermittent fasting or you're doing a 75 72 hour fast at the moment um yeah so my my newer so i was what i'm doing is i'm building sort of levels like when you first like this is meant for just the average person like the average person doesn't know anything about dieting maybe they've tried all the diets maybe they haven't tried it or you know they they have a south beach diet that book that they found at a garage sale for a penny uh which would be overpriced um but you know they they buy the book and they read it and you know they're like okay so you know i i need high fat and high carbohydrates and then i'll lose all the weight i want so whoa pizza is good for me you know like that kind of um you know like like they've had nothing but failure which it's really easy to find people who've had nothing but failure when it comes to their nutrition so i want to have you know different steps like you can't rearrange their life overnight unless they've had like just coming off a heart attack or something like that those people are great listeners yeah uh yeah phenomenal but they have to have that moment which sucks i'd rather catch people beforehand so to catch people beforehand what i'm trying to do is just come up with like different recommendations where the first one is just cut out all processed foods just anything with a package like unless it's it grew on a tree or you know it would run away if you stab it in the ass yeah those are the only two things you should eat anything else it's not food so people are like okay like i can still eat like apples because i like apples sure still have that stuff way better than the stuff in the packages so that's level one and then you know level two you might do some one meal a day kind of things and then the problem with fasting is that for it to really be effective you've got to go all the way all right and uh you know when you do multi-days and especially dry okay like because because when you're dry fasted you're pulling metabolic water out of out of fat cells fat cells are only 10 water so what happens when you start to dry fast is you know you feel like thirsty and hungry and a little weak and then all of a sudden and you'll know the moment all of a sudden when that first fat cell bursts and you've got all that you know like like i mean you would just see your uh your triglycerides would be low everything would be low and you'd see your ldl go away the [ __ ] up by the way the highest ldls recorded are from people who are fasting right so that's like like saying ldl is bad is like saying losing body fat is bad for you yeah you know the opposite to be true so it's just like i don't yeah like i wish i had been around 20 years ago when ldls were vilified it's just like um but that's how we lose body fat yeah pretty sure it's not the culprit yeah so so anyway yeah i mean your ldl skyrocket and you get energy and focus because it's faster than just ketone bodies like you're actually destroying fat cells which by the way caloric restriction can never do it just shrinks fat cells then expands and when you start eating again you're actually destroying in dry fasting is that is that only dry fasting or is that uh can you do that with wet fasting does it have to be sort of a state of sort of mild dehydration to go along with it as far as we know yeah because it's your body's so i haven't had any liquid and uh uh i'll i'll han i'll send you the study after there's two studies it's third grade where people went five days no food not water and i even if you're not a scientific person i encourage you to read these studies and try and understand them because it's kind of hilarious that you know it goes so far against what we've been told you know you need eight glasses of water a day you know where that came from gatorade yeah gatorade came up with that and of course the bottled water companies just jumped on that horse and wrote it right into the ground like yeah you need eight glasses of water a day yeah no study ever found that in fact the only thing that's ever been studied about hydration was in 1943 that's how interested the medical community is in hydration yeah though they probably should consult with some anesthesiologists because they they have some strong feelings on this you do not want to do anesthesiology on a dehydrated person however the dehydration is quick because what happens is you get dehydrated and then you start tapping metabolic water you're not dehydrated anymore right so in the study the people that were on the fifth day of no food no water they were urinating the same amount of urine okay as day one where'd the water go yeah yeah yeah how is your body still so even though you are quote a little dehydrated but you're not like you know if you do this you know sometimes you just like you know reach the scratch the back of your head and your bicep just knocks right up you know like when you get that doesn't happen yeah never happens so you're hydrated enough or you don't get any cramping or anything like that no headaches um [Music] and you're fine you still produce the same amount of urine and of course like you know at some point you're like a couple days in you're like where is it coming from it's it's coming from the metabolic water oh it's interesting yeah like uh awesome yeah you know it's funny like i i've never tried dry fasting it would be interesting to sort of check it out i've noticed in patients that just uh just fasting in general um you could could you might might accelerate things a bit if they're really looking for you know rapid weight loss but uh it one of the nice things about carnivore diet is that is you don't have to you know you know i think that your body can sort of regulate this as well and sort of it and you will automatically go into you can call it a caloric deficit if you want to but your body is just telling you you don't need as much food if you're just eating uh you know carnivore and well like when you have a carnivore you actually feel fuller yeah you know you eat like a steak and you know when and i i did do a little over a year 100 carnivore like i didn't have anything like i wouldn't even chew sugar-free gum actually i'd never choose sugar again but i mean it's just like zero when when in me except for uh animal protein and water yeah and uh i felt dynamite i did get a little bit of pushback when i told people they shouldn't really do exactly what i'm doing man there were some people that were like i just can't and like i tell them things like if you use the word can't you know you need to look in the mirror yeah do you really want to be one of those canned people yeah well like put it back on them like you know saying like hey you want to wear the shirt this is a [ __ ] loser no you don't don't be a [ __ ] loser and just try it because if you try it it's really not that tough yeah it was uh you know and i feel the same way about fasting but i think part of you know like how about this like physicians have trouble with compliance when they just prescribe a pill yeah people forget or they're lazy or they lose their bottle or they get to confuse their pets medication so they just gotta [ __ ] throw all the pills away yeah uh [Music] so osteoporosis was what got me in the life sciences right half of the reason the british government was helpful when like they they uh it was it was hosted a clinical trials that happened at the university of east london in the stratford village surgery why why was the nhs the government the british government so i mean they went way out of their way to be helpful to me and i was like man this is a huge bureaucracy like what why would they be so helpful and finally i met up with one of the top researchers in the country on osteoporosis and he said our biggest problem is compliance people go and use your medical device but they won't remember to take a pill right we we don't know what to do like at this point bisphosphonate drugs are you know the patents all run out so there's you know they're cheap yeah we won't take them they don't and they they also feel awful after they take them so they put it off and that's that's how it like starts because there's a lot of side effects of those but they come and use the osteogenic loading equipment no problem love it they feel great they feel energized after they do it which i'm sure is no surprise to you yeah uh but it's a surprise to them because most these people have never exercised a day in their life and they also have metabolic dysfunction and you know they come and they actually do a real exercise intervention um it's more just like bone compression i mean the movement is like from here to here like millimeters of movement of the body but tremendous forces thousands of pounds loaded through the body and you know all in an effort of bone compression to stimulate the bone matrix to pull in minerals to recalcify make the bone more powerful um yeah that's that like people love doing it and that's why they were so accommodating like we just like people want to do your thing they don't want to do art right and that's why they're helpful yeah yeah kind of cool because you know you kind of wonder like is there a big conspiracy or the pharma company is going to you know pay the institutions to bury my technology hell no yeah like the medical community actually does want to help people no that's good yeah and it's uh yeah you have to sort of wonder if there's a large government bureaucracy that's actually helping you like am i on the wrong side of this you know like uh i i would say like i mean in in our more recent times i would say our governments are not on our side when it comes to health uh you know they're doing favors for their donors and and whatever else like you know we probably can't get into the weeds on that one but um you know there's a lot of complications revolving around some medications that we're just not even allowed to discuss yeah well you're not allowed to discuss it there's something being hidden from you yeah well that's it yeah if if you have to if you have to shut down the conversation obviously uh you're you know there's massive deception yeah exactly yeah you can't even discuss it you know um there was um there was uh ivor guyver who's a nobel prize winner for um superconductors and he he actually gave up his his seat on the american physical society and uh because they were saying they became out they came out very dogmatically about something he said this is settled science there's we will broach no discussion on this he just said um and it's not this was a previous uh no touch issue and um and he and he said that like statins 20 years ago well like statins but more to do with the environment and climate change and things like that basically said the physical society said you this is settled science and that you know uh anthropogenic uh climate change is is what it said it is and there's there's no there's no nuance there's no discussion at all that to be had this is it that's not science no exactly and and so uh science is questioning everything exactly at all times yeah and uh and so he just he just gave up his seat on the physical society and he said that you know this is this is a society that still to this day argues over the weight of a proton and yet you're not allowed to even discuss this other thing you know that's ridiculous you know if you can argue on the weight of a proton be like no that's [ __ ] you know then you know then you can argue about anything you know so you ever been to one of their parties the physical society no yeah yeah no i haven't not personally yeah me neither it sounds like a terrible yeah like um wait of a proton let me get my notepad yeah yeah yeah yeah i bet the i bet the bartenders at their parties are like oh man i've got the worst headache from here in these um yeah probably um so so you you were doing a carnivore diet for a while um and obviously you know when you when you're working with people you're trying to just just find a good uh fit for them um but what do you think yeah yeah exactly and i i do know that there are people that will go 100 carnival and i will i mean like when i redo all my nutrition recommendations that's going to be an option that i'm going to promote heavily but you know i'd say 10 of people are willing to even listen to that and then you know the other 90 percent it's it's sad because they're really it's it's really their self-doubt it's not like they think it's not safe or something like that they might say that but there's a lot of doubt like they like eating and they're like god going days without eating how would i do that well when you're not carbohydrate addicted you don't think about eating you say that you say you talk about fasting with the average carnivore and they're like yeah i could probably go a couple days with no food yeah cool try that yeah like when you try it no sweat but when somebody who eats a lot of carbohydrates tries it a [ __ ] misery yeah absolutely especially like the first 12 hours yeah well that was the thing too you know it's like you know uh you were saying that like one of the most uh have you know heavily searched for phrases is you know how to lose weight without changing my diet like how the hell do you think you're gonna do that you know yeah anyone who would search for that is crazy like your diet is why you're fat like if you're if you're overweight that's why it's what you've been putting in your mouth yeah and to think that there's some way where you you wouldn't change that is insane well it's like it's like you know it's like looking up you know how to uh you know beat cocaine addiction without stopping cocaine use there you go and and so you know sugar is more addictive than cocaine there's a great study on yeah yeah i saw um uh one uh dr lustig from ucsf uh put out where they're looking at mris and um you know you hit a dopamine uh hit surge to the addiction centers your brain and um there's a study using mris and you would give like a you know an amphetamine dose uh to people they had control groups so you know like you or i wouldn't wouldn't consume any sorts of things uh you know those areas uh would just would light up and then someone who was addicted to methamphetamines who had killed off a lot of these parts of the brain had to sort of barely twinkle in the same areas but then people who were metabolically unwell who were sugar addicted they had the same barely twinkle so it it was addictive in the same way as uh you know cocaine heroin or methamphetamines and it killed the same areas of the brain as methamphetamines to the same extent as methamphetamines which is you know absolutely terrifying you know people it you know there was um it's like a medical director in in amsterdam of all places and he said that that sugar was the worst drug on earth you know this is this is people with the red light district who probably know a few things about uh about drugs and uh you know he's saying this is world strong on earth i would i would probably agree with that you know just because of the fact that uh it's in everything and we don't realize it's as bad as it is yeah um yeah the um and there was a you mentioned there's another study looking at uh fructose and and um cocaine things like that was that uh a different study we may be referencing the same thing uh i listened so i i lived in the people's republic of san francisco for 10 years yeah and um yeah i got to see i got to see elastic a couple times nice yeah yeah you know the guy's just like a treasure to society i don't think he'll i don't think he'll be appreciated i i feel like uh maybe in 20 years veganism will be in the same category as anorexia and bulimia it's just you know instead of like anorexics and bulimics they think they're healthy too right like i just i like to point that out to people so when they're like oh that's outrageous you would say that talk to a bulimic they think they're the healthiest people and you know like just because their problem is their view of themselves in the mirror whereas i think a vegan's problem is they surround themselves with other people who fit into their subculture which just becomes a kind of an information echo chamber you know when when uh subject probably have a book i'll write years from now uh on subcultures like people really you notice how like uh you see like a teenager and all of a sudden they become like emo yeah you know so they like they dress like they're depressed friends they get all get the same haircuts they all use the same [ __ ] i don't know just everything they're up each other's asses they're and they're just like clones of each other people really like being part of a subculture you know and when you see these uh you know overweight purple hair ladies at the grocery store who are like bitching about everything you know i need to see a manager sort of thing and you know like i don't i don't think that guy should be allowed to park in the parking lot that has a trump sticker on the back of his car you know like okay lady you know like that like it's a subculture they fall into it and they do every little thing the same uh it makes me think that there is some desire for a majority of the population i think it's the lower intelligence part of the population to save them from having to think about things they join a subculture then they don't have anything to think about at all they just do um you know like when you join a biker gang pretty much the only t-shirt you're going to own is going to say harley-davidson on it yeah right or your gang name yeah yeah like so you don't you don't have to worry about shirts anymore you don't have to worry about what what your transportation is because it's always gonna be some bike you know like like they do that so they can just go [ __ ] everything else i'm just following these guys and whatever collective decision we make you know whether it's to do you know be vegan or eat meat or all get the vaccine or what you know it's like we're all going to be the same yeah no thinking yeah and um in in now with social media it's almost like that's that echo chamber is amplified because social media doesn't have us connect with people with differing opinions typically it connects us with people that have the same so like i have conservative friends that are like i don't see all this like twitter outrage over like just today like i don't see it like nobody seems angry about this and i'm like you don't have a single liberal friend right yeah i mean like you designed it so that you don't know what's going on yeah yeah yeah it's just like i know this guy's you know facebook friends are and instagram friends are and they're all his you know nra buddies so okay well yeah you do you like you have no idea what people are saying yeah yeah yeah you sort of sit in your own bubble and and you don't get outside of that there was um there was a there was a uh a story about that there was like someone from you know it was new york society like new york times sort of things and you know there was some some election at some point and the other other people that they were going against were um you know personally were rooting against end up winning and ended up winning like uh massive or maybe it was like reagan or something like that you know we had this landslide you know 48 states and they just said how could he possibly want i don't know anyone who voted for him it's like uh-huh yeah i'm sure you don't yeah and um but that that shows just how isolated people can become and and that you know that was that was before social media as well it's worse now yeah yeah um yeah that's interesting um i was going to say so so what do you do now as oh sorry well i i actually had a question for you yeah um in in you know like different guys who promote carnivores just have different answers to this question but is there ever a point where you get to where you think carnivore has just like you need a break from it because i hear that like people say oh keto only works for a certain period of time i'll say well i don't know about that i haven't seen that study but i know calorie restriction only works for a certain period of time because you have a metabolic adaptation ketosis is a system of body yeah and like i've never heard about it failing over a period of time for any particular reason and i haven't been able to find the research i just get the question a lot i think it's just some vegan [ __ ] that somebody made up yeah this is this ever happening like i went i was 100 carnivore for a whole year [Music] never i mean i was the leanest i've ever been i was i'm stronger now but you know i was strong strong stronger than i had ever been yeah yeah yeah up to that point so i'm just curious like like do you any anything with that no no for me no i mean i've you know i've been doing this solidly for five years i was doing it solidly for five years and you know early twenties and i i've just never ever felt better in my entire life i've never had an issue with that um you know i think um you know uh it seems like that you know professor uh rk you know he was talking about sort of this this evolution of uh you know different sort of carnivore or you know gurus or influencers or whatever doctors uh who are now saying that oh yeah actually you can't survive without carbohydrates you have to intake carbohydrates which you know we know from from biochemistry background and they shouldn't really know because they've taken biochemistry uh you don't need that you know you will make all the carbohydrates and and so forth that you need um but they were having problems after about a year and they were having hormonal issues and electrolyte issues and whatever uh and they decided because they looked at a you know small sort of mechanistic study saying oh look there's this little you know pathway and response in your kidneys and this has something to do with your microtubules and reserving electrolytes and that's what it is i don't have enough carbohydrates well you know first of all you have carbohydrates your blood sugar is where it's supposed to be and you have glycogen and so if you needed carbohydrates to do you know to to make this function properly it's already there um and uh but they were saying that must be it and so they started incorporating you know sugar actually yeah just drinking orange juice and eating eating honey and fruit and that was that was something that they thought was was good for them forgetting to realize that there are people like myself like dr baker like countless other people who have not only been doing this for several years but several decades and then entire populations who have been doing this generationally and they have never in their life consumed carbohydrates some of these people and that's and that's something that's well recognized by various uh scientific and and uh medical um institutions saying that they're the the requirement of carbohydrates the lifelong requirement for carbohydrates is zero that is a well-established fat and so still in the nutrition guide printed by the ama yeah yeah and um still there yeah and so you know you know them sort of so they they were doing something differently obviously you know if they're if you're having problems after a year or so that i'm not having or you weren't having or baker wasn't happening or the inuits never have well obviously there's something there's something different going on there they thought that this was lack of carbohydrates but we were all lacking carbohydrates and and we were thriving and he wasn't so it's something else it's not the carbohydrates um maybe you feel maybe they feel better on carbohydrates but that's you know that that's going to be a side you know that's not addressing the underlying issues so uh no i don't i don't you know just looking you know anthropological data and the fossil record and biologically you know we i think all the best evidence shows that we really are carnivores as a species that are but we the type of animal that we are biologically is carnivore and so you know eating meat your entire life is is not going to cause detriment by definition because that being our evolved diet if that is our evolved diet i think that evidence uh strongly supports that um you cannot live generationally uh in in in that state without carbohydrates if that's if that's not going to be optimal you know you have if you if this is if lack of exogenous carbohydrates are going to cause hormonal dysfunction or electrolyte dysfunction you're going to know about it and so you know if you have you know if you have the inuit who and i like using it'll also be universal it'll happen to everybody yeah and um this is let me let me just take one little sidetrack here the whole like everyone is different and find out what's right for you that's some [ __ ] that somebody became us you know it's like that's excusing the person who just won't you know take whatever or it gives us some heartburn or something like that everyone is not [ __ ] different we all have one heart we have the same skin it functions the same it's not like uh you know somebody's skin they uh they absorb water through it like it's another thing i saw recently like yeah you bathe too much you absorb water through your skin oh really pretty sure it's a one-way street and it's out not in it and uh yeah it's just like soluble [ __ ] to go through your skin first of all you know right like you get chlorine poisoning every time you went swimming yeah [ __ ] yeah okay yeah um yeah so those are waffle words that were developed by pharmaceutical companies so that you know they didn't have to call you a [ __ ] if you didn't want to take their stu their medication you know you didn't like the side effects it's like okay well that wasn't right for you yeah you know because we treat everybody like they're a child in in healthcare yeah um but assuming they're stupid as a child too which is a large problem in healthcare um it's like no one wants to be educated they just want to be told what to do yeah [ __ ] a lot of people do want to be educated yeah yeah i agree yeah and i think that i think it's a bit of um you know it's very condescending you know oh they just don't understand they just don't want it's like how about how do you know dude there is a video out there i mean i copied it i like actually like did a screen record like that's how excited that was yeah bill maher who is somebody i normally don't really care uh was talking about how um misled some people are by like some of the you know medical information that's out there and he's like he's like when i think about the medical community the arrogance of like don't question us we're going to tell you what to do and he says well here's the problem because this is me to the medical community this is him talking to the medical meeting he says you're wrong a lot yeah like a lot yeah and there are drugs that get approved by the fda and then pulled by the fda yeah and we're not allowed to even ask what percentage gets pulled yeah there's some groups that estimated something like 75 percent of drugs that have been declared been approved then later been like you know we're seldom that was when we were kids that was like the allergy medication well it causes arrhythmia so you know it just quietly disappeared right but you know like they don't there's only a press release when they launch a new drive not when it disappears yeah so um right so like he's talking about the the irritation that the medical community has with the population when the population starts asking questions like why would i need to take a vaccine that doesn't stop people from getting it and doesn't stop me from spreading it yeah like that question yeah that's apparently inappropriate yeah yeah i think that's completely appropriate why would i why would i take something that has a risk of death that the two things that we care about it doing it doesn't do either of those things yeah and or you don't have long-term safety data i mean you know the thing is not being allowed or that which we're supposed to be promised via fda approval but apparently they can just say it's going to be rush status so we're not just going to do any of those studies at all yeah and um you know i mean you should always ask questions you know you may i mean it may be people may think that's unreasonable but it's not unreasonable this is this is your life you only have one of them you don't get a reset button you can't go back and just say oh well if i had to do it again i would do that well you don't have that option so you do need to think critically about things and you do need to ask questions and and i think that you know um that that's important for people to do that and i hope that they continue to do that um just going back to your point about you know everyone being different how how sort of absurd that is i totally agree with that i you know i talk to people about this you know and i and i start making you know my arguments and they they try to try to sort of go one way or the other um i said well you know everyone's different everyone has a different whatever and i'm like no no we are one species you know with the same animal you know we're hyper you know evolving yeah i mean acid on me poor aspen on you same result yeah you know we're homo sapien sapiens like we are very very uh you know closely genetically linked we've been essentially the same for about 300 000 years genetically there's minor adaptations here and there but as far from from just an overall animal perspective we're the same and we've been the same for hundreds of thousands of years um and so you know they'll just not think about it but just be oh no no no no because you know these things just get repeated and repeated and repeated so they think that it has some sort of merit where in fact you know most of these things it just came like multiple examples that you said he's like where these things came from they came from complete you know nonsense or just marketing and um you know what i my argument back to them who's dead who said you say a lie a thousand times it becomes the truth yeah hitler well no it's frederick goebbels who was hitler hitler's propaganda yeah i mean it's just like the nazis anyway that is applied by you know governments all over the world they just keep the lie going and then people just start to believe it yeah make the lie make it big and keep repeating until people believe it and then the other one was accuse your enemy of what you're doing so that when they say oh you know actually you know you're doing it you just say this retaliation that that's you know people project uh all the time um but yeah so my response when people say that no no no everyone's just different blah blah blah say okay will you point out to me one example in nature where you have two members of the same species who have different optimal diets i'll wait yeah i've yet to have someone answer that you know that's a great question i love that question yeah yeah i think it just it sort of boils it down because like this doesn't it wouldn't make sense biologically you know especially especially something so drastically different from being carnivore to being uh vegan or vegetarian how is that you know um you know most animals yeah exactly you know like you you can you know there's there's there's plenty of instances where you know herbivores eat eat meat they'll eat like small animals that run by and uh and do just fine and you know we can we can you know that has all the you know gorillas eat monkeys yeah yeah yeah chimpanzees yeah as well it's chips it'll eat smaller monkeys there'll be more yeah they'll eat more than that and um uh yeah funny enough there was there's a national geographic picture of like uh chimps in certain areas like hunting with spears it's like oh dude like planet of the apes is on its way and um which is pretty funny yeah and so you know you can you don't actually need to be especially adapted to eat meat because meat is has all the nutrients that we're trying to make what are we trying to do when we eat we're trying to build and maintain meat so what has all the nutrients that we need meat you have to be specially adapted to get those same nutrients from plants which is very hard to do you have to be able to break down cellulose first and foremost if you're eating fibrous plants and that's not really something that uh that you're going to see you know in sort of in in a lot of a lot of people so you know you have you know uh you have one sp you know you know i when i say to people like you know the inuits live as carnivores they and there's no question of that these people live up in the north pole there are no plants to eat there is no honey to eat there is no fruit to eat so if you if these were required essential ingredients to life they would be dead exactly and then you're going through the ice ages which we've done you know five times in the last few million years you know a lot of the part a lot of the world was covered in ice and glaciers there were no plants to eat the majority of people did not have access to plants and this is thought to be why we actually went full carnivore because we didn't have uh the ability to to eat any plants at that point and we're already eating eating animals well also so i i gotta i guess i want to add to that like in nature like how many vegetables and fruits do you just trip over like the vegetables and fruits that we have are genetically engineered to be cheap food and like you know i'll just i'll just like when some of these idiots arguing with me i just post a picture of yosemite and i'm like point to all the vegetables like that that is something you would see you know a thousand years ago just a valley with trees and [ __ ] lakes rivers where are all the vegetables yeah [ __ ] nowhere yeah vegetables were engineered yeah yeah i mean like when before corn became cultivated it was just like unheard of yeah it had to be you know and then and then like there's baker's joke it's like i've never seen a cave painting of a farm with vegetables on it yeah or somebody making salad a lot of cave paintings are hunting though yeah quite a few yeah yeah they hunted that's all they did yeah exactly yeah well that's what people say you know we were hunter gatherers i'm like yeah drop the gatherers apart you know yeah but when we had to you know sure you know and you look at you look at uh uh different historical records uh you know western cultures going into australia or north america um they marveled at how they just lived as carnivores they only ate meat and they were they were saying they're like you know even in the northern reaches and you know what's now canada you know there was i was reading um you know an excerpt from from you know like a journal whatever that some guy wrote at the time like in the early 1500s and he was saying that you know people were we're just eating meat and he was just like that's that's that's pretty crazy you know but they were extremely healthy extremely fit they looked just physically beautiful they were just like statuesque and and he said that it was it was just a bit crazy um he said he understood it for the people you know more north where it's just it's just living in the permafrost all the time you got to do what you got to do but he said people were more you know in the southern sort of new england areas three months out of the year you know you had um you know you had uh you know it defrosted and they said that surely they could live off the bounty of the land during those three months either but they don't they they just ate meat and there's a lot of uh of records you know there and in australia where people were again just just blown away by this and they all said that you know when in in times of you know starvation they you know they knew which plants they could eat to survive on and that they could you know use medicinally but when they didn't need them when they had meat available they didn't touch it they just they just tossed it right and so people look at it's like oh well the native americans are made of australians they they ate this and they ate this and they ate this and they had this and they would make a broth out of this and the tea out of that blah blah blah blah yeah when did they do it you know how often did they be was that was that a daily occurrence no that was when they were starving to death or when they're using it medicinally and that and that is what all the original source data shows there was um you know every time i find one of these uh books from like an explorer uh who's written about their travels one of these i always always pick it up and i always um always look through it and if you should write that up and reference it yeah yeah ready for people to read yeah well you know i i yeah i can probably um put them up there i have some of the the books there's there's one in particular that um i didn't buy a book i should i will probably but i just took pictures of both of all the pages so i could like read it later it's a whole chapter just on on the diet of the native australians and they were just they're just marveling how they just only ate meat and most yeah i'm sure you've seen the documentary by pete evans uh magic pill yeah yeah that's it yeah he goes through the aboriginal tribes and interviews them like you know they got all kinds of problems like they're all sick and then you know he puts them on an all meat diet and then everything goes away that's weird yeah well yeah and they're like yeah this is how our ancestors ate like they know yeah exactly you know and you know i mean i'm in australia at the moment and you know when i first got here you know it was expressed to me when you're treating uh your native australian uh patient that you basically look at their age and you add 20 because that's how fast they age that's how quickly they break down and so if you're if you're treating someone's 40 years old you you treat them as a 60 year old because that's that's the sort of the you know obviously you know you know diseases and issues come in sort of peaks at different different uh points in your life and so they seem to get these things a lot earlier than other people do and and so they're just breaking down but that's that's the the cohort that is eating western diet and living you know on this you know uh this crap that's harmful to anyone and you know drinking alcohol and smoking i'm sure but you know but the main thing is the food and i remember you know uh learning as a kid um that i remember heard it on the news or something like that it was just like that studies has shown that that when eating a western diet native americans were four times as likely to get obesity heart disease diabetes cancer all these these these modern diseases i remember thinking like well doesn't that mean that the food is causing the disease because if they don't eat the food they don't get the disease we eat the food we get the disease we just get at a lower rate you know what are the what it was a non-western diet what are they eating that we're not and vice versa they you know they don't tell you at the time but it was pure high-fat carnivorous and that's the same you know in australia that's what they ate and so i've i've spoken to you know anybody whenever i can you know they're in the hospital for for different issues and this comes up uh you know especially with you know the native population you know and we talk about it and i just say like hey you know this is you know this is where i'm coming from and uh and like you say they always like yeah you know like that's that's what we all used to eat when i was a kid and everyone was lean and strong and healthy and then no one had all any of these problems and he's just like huh and you know and there's still people living like that there's still people living uh you know quite naturally and and and just eating meat and kangaroos the same as they always would i'm sure they're incorporating other things as well but you know good news is when you're honest in australia kangaroo is cheap yeah it is yeah well it's a past not that great vermin yeah yeah they're they're a nuisance so everybody wants them blown away yeah uh but yeah i mean like i had a hell of a time finding kangaroo me like i was going to nice steak houses and i'm like where's your kangaroo and they're like not this kind of place no no so you know you go to like more like a texas roadhouse sort of spot yeah equivalent in in uh in australia and then that's where you find the kangaroo and it's not bad yeah well in the and the thing is too is that you can only find certain certain cuts of the kangaroo they they'll they'll do like the filet mignon you know the back straps of the kangaroo because people are so obsessed with lean meat down here that was a big thing uh when i first got down here it was just lean lean well because they really took it to heart that that uh fat and cholesterol are bad for you and they cause heart disease and you know i think that's perfectly reasonable if you do believe the data you do believe the the the recommendations that cholesterols cause heart disease and this is bad for you there's no there's no benefit nutritionally then yeah you should cut it out you know you should get rid of that crap and that's so as a as a market and a society they've really done that pretty well here the problem is it's dead ass wrong and so yeah the um the kangaroo they just do the backdrops because they're just totally lean and they're also most of these things are you know uh pretty lean anyway because they're just they're just living naturally they're not being like new grain grain fit or whatever but apparently the tails have more fat and that's what the aboriginals will eat that's the most prized part and so they'll take the back straps off they'll sell it to uh you know in the grocery stores and the white man and then no no for sure and then they'll give you yeah and they'll take the tails and they'll actually just ship them out and just give them to aboriginal uh communities uh just to just to have and then the rest of it they just grind down for for dog food that's that's how they use kangaroos here and um i've been trying my ass off to get yet some kangaroo tails because that's that's you know i was talking to some of these guys and they were like and they even said you just like you know we're talking about meat and just eating animals in general and not even the other stuff he said yeah and you know the most important part is the fat he said that to me and i was like damn right it is and so he was saying like that's why we eat the tails the tails have the most fat that's the best part and after the conversation he's like yeah you know i'm going to talk to my nephew and have him send me some some kangaroo tails i'm going to i'm going to get on this you know and um you know so yeah it's good to see and you you see dramatic differences when people go on a carnivore diet especially when they have these these chronic issues autoimmune issues diabetes certainly and but it is most dramatic in these genetic populations who have not had the exposure to agriculture that you know you that our ancestors would have had and and that's why they're four times as likely to get these problems than you know then uh people of the western descent would be because you know we had you know the agricultural revolution ten thousand eight to ten thousand years ago and so we've had sort of some genetic adaptations and protections against these uh you know poisonous sort of uh foods that they don't have and so they they get much more hit by sort of the toxic elements in these in these foods and then you take that away and it just goes away yeah so i found that that's uh probably one of the strongest tools in my my arsenal as a doctor of getting people better and actually just keeping them better and that's you know really what what uh i think is the you know the main thing to do in um in medicine at all um john i i'm just conscious of the time here uh do you i don't want to take up your whole night uh yeah i i do i do need to take off okay um well i i really appreciate you coming on um and uh hopefully yeah yeah absolute pleasure to meet you and talk with you i'm glad we were able to set this up and um you know i would like to you know bring it back on some other time and really get into the nitty-gritty with the your your uh your x3 bar and your uh fitness you know program and really like and focus on how people can best address you know uh optimizing uh your muscle growth and athletic performance uh as well which is something you're obviously very well versed on uh if you're able to use yeah oh absolutely dude this is good awesome well now that we figured out a good time that works for both of us yeah yeah that's that's because you i mean being in california being in australia yeah it was tough but we figured it out yeah and we must thank our friend josh yeah absolutely yeah thank you josh yeah man he was like we really really wanted us to get together on video so and then i appreciate his enthusiasm and commitment and persistence yeah because he messaged the both of us a lot yeah it was funny because like this is like a it's a really great conversation josh was absolutely right yeah yeah well and that's the thing you know you you know you work for it and push forward it's just like so you get you get things done you just just keep plugging away so yeah i think that's right yeah and uh yeah definitely um great well thanks to josh yeah um so so what's the place best place for people to find you and look at your work and and take a look at your uh my landing page is uh doctorj.com d-o-c-t-o-r the letter j.com and there's links to everything youtube um i do the most on instagram i'm starting to do some stuff on tick tock but i really hate the platform you know it's like it's like let me educate you in 15 seconds yeah this is just it's just kind of 80d video and really there's two types of videos that get a lot of traction it's uh girls taking their clothes off and um like kind of funny stuff like cars you know rolling down a hill or you know exploding toilets or just just weird humor yeah yeah so like like i mean when you're talking about science i it's weird like there are some days where it seems very efficient and there's other days where it's like wow like i'm just wasting my time here yeah absolutely i do double all of my posts as instagram stories so it's getting some value but it's funny because i'll have 20 000 views on instagram yet i have more followers on tick tock and some of my videos get like 200. weird that's that actually that's an exaggeration probably the lowest one is like 800. okay but it's like you know then you see like the girl who just has like 50 videos of her just like running around in her underwear and it's just like you know like it's like each one it's like millions of views like yeah yeah that's what this is here for then yeah yeah yeah exactly yeah yeah all right cool well i'll put those um on the show notes as well and i'll try to get this up um yeah sort of in the next and next week or so i know josh will be i don't think i could i could delay it more than that i think josh would uh uh he kills both yeah exactly he told me he's just like you know she's chooses out you've got to send it to me i really want to see it and so uh maybe i'll just maybe i'll just screw with them and just say it's coming out in a month or something like that just and just watch the fireworks and then and then pepper it out as a as an early birthday present don't involve me in that yeah yeah yeah yeah dr jacquis said you know he really didn't want this coming out before june so you know i'm just honoring that yeah yeah that's cool all right well john thanks so much it's absolutely been a pleasure and uh hopefully we'll have you on again and we'll talk some more about uh getting buff awesome anthony have a good night [Music]