"Crohn’s Took My Colon—Here’s What I Wish I Knew Sooner" - Lee Copus

[Music] I lost my colon in my 20ies after listening to my doctor's dietary advice. I took their drugs and in a matter of 5 years, my whole colon was riddled and had to go. And so that was why I became depressed. I didn't really like the outcome of my surgery. And I stumbled across an anecdote from Michaela Peterson. This is how I found this diet. And you know, I set out to do a 30-day BBBE challenge and it's been over 2 and 1/2 years now. That's how good this this way of eating is. So, if I take it back to 2012 when I first presented with my symptoms and my problem, it it felt like diarrhea. And so, one day I sat on the toilet, it was a little bit faster than normal. And it wasn't until I wiped that I saw a load of blood on on the paper and was a little bit of a shock. So I went down to my GP in Oford and we basically just talked about my symptoms. The very first thing the first doctor said at this practice was, "If you think it's bow cancer, you can forget it." So a bit of a funny attitude there. There were these adverts on at the time about bowel cancer awareness. And I think he probably got a little bit sick and tired of seeing people, you know, coming in after one and another with the same symptoms. And I guess he thought I was too young or something, which kind of makes sense. But yeah, um, we talked about it and he said obviously we were going to, you know, we need to do tests. need to figure out what this is. And so he referred me to my hospital, Tambridge Wells, and that's where they ran some tests. So a sigmoid endoscopy was performed. So it's like a probing device with a camera with little pincers, and they take biopsies, and I didn't take the anesthetic, so I could kind of well experience it all. It's a very unpleasant experience. Um, so they went in at the back end and they start to blow up areas of the intestine basically, but it was quite lowend, I think, that they could see. They almost classed it as mild propitis actually in the beginning but I was basically in this umbrella term of ulcerative colitis that when I went back to my doctor that's what they said that I had and so it's an inflammatory bowel disease it's also classed as an autoimmune disease and at the time like I say it was so mild that they didn't even really talk about drugs they just mentioned things like little and often so eat smaller frequent meals that are colorful lots of fiber and so whole plant foods and grains was definitely something I remember they were they were pushing for grains. Interestingly, I saw a second doctor at the same practice and can you believe one of his advice, one of his tips were to uh drink a beer of a night, one beer every night, which is just just incredible when I reflect back on that advice. Yeah, I think I think he's thinking about Yeah. Yeah. regulating about movement. He was talking along the lines of, you know, let's get you regular and all this kind of stuff. One beer might help. Maybe he read something quite recently about that. I don't know. But it's crazy. You think about it's just mashed up grains with gluten and acid alahhide in there. It's not exactly super fuel for your gut. So, um, yeah, I didn't listen to that advice. Um, although I did smile and laugh, thought, oh, you know, he's giving me an excuse to drink here. But no, no, I I was quite, you know, quite worried about my health. And so, I took the advice quite seriously in terms of the fiber and the plant materials and things like this. And I I went about consuming uh smaller meals. And so typically every meal was based around grains, porridge, oats in the morning, goji berries and apples and cinnamon and then whole grain sandwiches and wraps. Come evening time, brown rice and Mediterranean dishes, you know, grains, vegetables more so in in the evening and and often like animal protein, so just lean sources of animal nutrition like chicken and cod and things like that. I did have a little bit of dairy, but I did hear that that was also potentially a problem for people like me and so I wasn't going crazy. I wasn't drinking milk or anything like that. Anyway, two years goes by and my issue is definitely worse and I'm thinking, you know, I'm doing all the right things. I need to go back to see my doctor to see what he thinks. And so, it was at this point where they prescribed some steroids. It was a very typical treatment. I can't remember the name, but it was a typical treatment for colitis, which obviously only affects the colon. So, it's different from Crohn's where it can affect gum to bum. Mhm. And so I went away now, you know, diet apparently was fine. I'm doing all the right things with the diet, so carry on with that. I would even snack on things like almonds in between meals, things like that, you know, crazy like bodybuilder style, you know, chicken, broccoli, rice, and almonds in between. And then lots of other colorful dishes. And the drugs, which actually seem to work quite well in the beginning. I think this is quite common. Steroids are miraculous when you're on them, but they're not sustainable and they're very, very dangerous. Obviously, you know, long term. I didn't know this. I just listened to my doctor's advice and went about my life. I would typically go in and out of flare-ups. So, a flare up would be where I just feel run down. My body's like, "Nope, can't do this anymore." And then the diarrhea would come with lots of blood and nasty symptoms like mucus and and and things like that. And obviously, the frequency in which I was going to the toilet was ramped up. My confidence was down. And being a window cleaner is is quite tricky. when you leave the house, you know, you think, "Oh, man." You know, how cuz where I live quite often, it's like out in the sticks. It's just countryside and, you know, nowhere to go to stop to use a toilet. And I didn't really like to encroach on people's properties and things like that. So, um, yeah, bit bit tricky when I was on a flare up. And over time, these progressively got worse. And so, I would say after about a year of taking these drugs along with the diet, which I thought was a good thing that I was doing, it felt like I was no longer taking the drugs anymore. It was just like I was right back to being at the doctors again a year ago. Anyway, continue to go about this lifestyle because they've just kept affirming me. This is all you can do. It's you. You're an unfortunate human being. It's in your genetics. It's hereditary. We have drugs. Eat lots of fiber. That's pretty much it. They never tested me for gluten. Yeah, they never tested me for gluten. And luckily, I wasn't drinking a beer every night. Every now and again, but not not every night. Well, anyway, 2017 comes along and I'm now flaring up for the last time. And part of me knew because I'd typically gone in the beginning it would be maybe five, six, seven times in a day. As it progressed, you're getting up to sort of 10, 12, maybe 15. On a very bad day, I had experienced up to 20 times a day, but it would be like one day and then it would drop back down to 16, 17 times as it was getting really bad. Hey guys, just want to take a second to thank our sponsor, Carnivore Bar. I don't promote many products because honestly all you need to be healthy is to just eat meat. for those times that you're out hiking, road tripping, or stuck at work and you want nutritious snack that is just meat, fat, and salt. If you want it, the Carnivore Bar is a great option. So, I like this product not because it's just pure meat, but also because I want the carnivore market to thrive as well. And the more we support meatonly products, the more meatonly products there will be available in the mainstream. So, if this sounds like something you'd like to get behind, check it out using my discount code, Anthony, to get 10% off, which also applies to subscriptions, giving you 25% off total. All right, thanks, guys. But this this time it went straight to sort of like double figures. And after a couple of days, I was going 30 times a day. And I had previously heard looking at YouTube videos of someone in a similar position to me, these guys like pretty much living in the bathroom going like 30 times a day. And I couldn't believe how severe it was in their case. And I was thinking, "Oh, I'm so lucky." You know, feeling sorry for these guys. And there I am now in my present moment. I'm one of these guys now. I'm going 30 times a day. And I felt I should have just taken a pillow into the bathroom cuz I was at my parents house at the time. And by the time I got comfy after going to the toilet, I would lay back down on the on the couch. I was getting signs to go straight back up. And it was relentless. I mean, 30 times when you I was probably up for maybe cuz I was pretty exhausted as well. Say I was up for maybe 12 14 hours of the day. try and fit in going up the stairs and going to the toilet 30 times, you don't really get time to do much else. And um I just felt like I was wasting away and my my muscles were deteriorating. I was very dehydrated, losing a lot of electrolytes and iron. And um it started to look a bit different as well in the toilet. I mean, I'm not going to go into details, but um I rung my nan up um because my parents were in the States and I wasn't driving. It was just such bad timing. And um I I got on the phone. I said, "Look, I don't this is my situation. I really don't believe I've got another day in me. I think I'm heading for a real like troubled situation. She says, "Okay, cool. We'll take you straight first thing in the morning kind of thing." And I remember this car journey. Oh, it was just horrible. I was holding on to the the bar at the top of the the the door just trying to hold in the toy. It was so bad and I was sweating. Yeah, it's just really tricky. And um eventually it presented just like an absolute mess in the hospital. They they could see I was in a bit of a state. They um hooked me up with introvenous drip to rehydrate me. Basically, they put me on a different course of steroids again to lower inflammation so they could perform another investigatory have a look. Let's explore to see what's happened. I don't think that they re I don't think they really thought it would be as bad as what it was based on what they saw the last time they saw me, which was just, you know, not too many years ago. Again, I refused anesthetic camera and device straight up the back end. Again, more biopsies. But this time, rather than cuz the previous time they were sort of joking with me and keeping things light, this kind of stopped after about 30 seconds. They could see how bad it was and they kept going further up. They were calling other people in for different opinions and things like this. They all just look very, very serious. They kind of like ignored me now. They weren't engaging with me at all. And I'm sort of like reading the room like this is bad. And um they said, you know, your whole colon is riddled with colitis. there's a very low chance you're going to get out of the hospital with at least not some kind of surgery. And um they they were going to trial me on this very potent immune suppressant drug. This was like last chance scenario. You know, I think they said it could be around 50/50 that you'll get into remission. We'll put you on some drugs and maybe you can go home, but we don't know. We don't think so. Anyway, I can't remember how many days I was on this drug, but they kept me on it two days longer than they should. And eventually the guy came in with about six women or something all like pulling like these faces and they started putting their hands on my leg and tapping me as if like I was like what's going on? It's all right. It's all right. And they you know the doctor the main guy there he broke the news you know first thing in the morning we're going to have to take your entire colon out. This isn't working. And he explained to me that what was happening and that why some of the residue was bit different. I was shedding line lining of my colon. It was just coming out of me slowly but surely. And I was on my way to perforation. So, I don't know how far away from Yeah, I don't know how far away I was from that, but it felt pretty pretty bad. It felt like being poisoned and your body not being able to get rid of it. It was like just relentless, very weak. Um, and it started to kind of almost cause pain like different in a different way. I I never felt too much pain. It was more discomfort and inconvenience where this time it was definitely something different. And of course, inevitably, I had to have this surgery. So, um, STO nurses came around. So, if anyone doesn't know what STOR is, it's basically the last part of your intestine that you were able to keep onto that protrudes through the abdominal wall, which then would, you know, you'd have a bag fashioned over the top of this around the stomach so that you can empty, you go number two into a bag, and that was basically my future. And so, these stoes were taking me through the concept, giving me these booklets and showing me pictures to try and, you know, help me understand this thing and different foods. Can you believe they gave me a list of foods that promotes loads of gas and right at the top there's all like mushrooms and onions and there was no no meat on there or anything like that. I think they did put dairy on there but I don't I don't know why. Um yeah, it was just basically all plants and um yeah to to just very very slowly, you know, when you get back to back to your life you can eat everything but just very very incrementally get there you know very slow steps. So, and another funny thing is as well when I woke up after the surgery, it was about two 2 and 1/2 days before I ate, it could have even been 3 days before I ate anything. Obviously, they're very keen to monitor you on food to see if the bag and the stor is working properly. Interestingly, they don't give you any fiber. None. Zero. Because it could block things up. And so, you think like that's kind of interesting. You know, I've been advocated to to eat loads of fiber and now all of a sudden I'm not allowed to eat any fiber. And so they gave me white bread with butter. They gave me Pringles. This this was a very popular one. I think a lot of people have been through a similar surgery. They Yeah, Pringles are like the superfood cuz it's it's great. You know, you got salt, you got this starch, there's no fiber, and it's going to allow you your output to stodge up because apparently we just want really stodgy output. Um, and this kind of stuff. And I was having a lot of these pureed vegetable meals, these strange dishes. They almost like make a carrot shape out of mashed up carrot. It's really weird. Um and so yeah, I don't know what that's all about. It's almost like quite patronizing the way you get, oh, some carrot. There you go. You know, so um yeah, a bit of a strange um experience the whole thing, but I felt at least I was in the right place. I was in the hospital and everybody accepted me, you know, because they've seen this time and time again. They're all professionals. Anyway, I couldn't wait to get home cuz I'm I'm pretty rubbish at sleeping, certainly under sort of that amount of assistance and care. Like they come in constantly every 3 hours to take your blood pressure and it's like 3:00 in the morning, they're waking you up. So, um, sleep was terrible. I couldn't wait to get home just to get back to my bed. And, um, I did I get I went home with my parents again and they're back from the States now. They already visited me in the hospital before I I I got home. And, um, the very next day they all went to work and it was really quiet. So, I woke up and it was just me in the house just with my thoughts. And no kidding, it was just like instant depression. Just it hit me so hard, so fast. I realized where do I go from here? Like it just felt like a strange dream. I woke up from this dream and now but now I've got to face this actually not a dream. It's reality. Like I've got this bag attached to my stomach and it doesn't look good. I don't like the way it feels. I don't like having to deal with it or change and and it affected my sleep definitely. I was I felt restricted to laying on my back. Um and all I wanted to do was turn over. But because it's on the right side, so if you turn over on your left, it kind of pulls too much. And if you if you if I'm laying on my right for whatever reason, things move faster. So, it was just like I felt restricted to just being on my back. And I think the combination of the way I naturally was, I think I was quite um bit of a pessimist, I suppose. More of a glooier outlook than than the average person anyway. I've always been quite neurotic, but I do think that that's also to do with diet. Hey everyone, really happy to announce a new sponsor for the show and for everybody down in Australia. Stockman Steaks, who are delivering highquality grass-fed and finished, pasture-raised beef and other meats, flash frozen, and vacuum sealed to your door. Something that I've been enjoying a lot of myself recently as well. They also have a great range of specialty items such as highfat keto mints and carnivore beef and organs mints with liver, kidneys, and beef heart as well. So, use code chaffy today for a free order of beef mint or another specialty gift along with your order at stockmanstakessaks.com.au and I'll see you over there. Thanks, guys. And um just yeah, the aesthetic of this thing and I'm I'm a bit of a comfort person. I certainly was. And there's like there's no comfort. You can't go and seek comfort with this thing. You can't run away from it. You can't take it off. It's just always there. And in the initial periods, I couldn't really take my mind off it. So, I couldn't get comfortable with it. and I'm now trying to go back to work and it just changed everything. It actually just put a damper on everything, you know, because I wherever I go, it goes with me. And um it almost became my boss. I had to ask my bag like, "Can I go to sleep or do I need to empty or change? Can I eat now or do I need to empty or change?" You know, can I go for a walk? Can I do this? Can I do that? I've not been in a swimming pool since. Um you know, I I would never dream of taking my top off. There's a time and a place I don't want to just offend people. I felt like I had a freakish body now, like an old granddad or something, you know, but I'm in my 20s and I feel like a 70-year-old guy with bowel cancer. And so um it just all affected me um in a real big way mentally. It became a mental thing and uh developed a lovehate relationship with food because every time I ate I had to process it. But I loved eating and I love my food. But after about 3 hours now I've got to kind of like go through this process of of feeling the process. like I could feel when food was now coming out and kinking into the bag. And I slowly but surely picked up on things. So over here we have a roast dinner on a Sunday and I would go back to my parents. So I'm I'm now living in my own house with Lucy. Um and we go back to um around my parents house to have like a Sunday roast and typically you've got like some maybe some lamb or maybe some chicken and then spuds and then vegetables and then gravy. And slowly but surely I was like going around there saying, "Do you know what? I don't really want any more of the broccoli cuz it's just causing me such a nightmare in the bag or I would get obstructions and it would really struggle. And then I was like, do you know what? I don't I don't even think I want peas or carrots this time. And so it was kind of like meat and then just potatoes which is starchy. Wasn't so bad. Mhm. And I actually felt guilty. I thought I was getting rid of all the nutrients. Like no, I'm just getting protein and starch. Like protein. I just looked at it like protein and carbs. So now I'm missing the vitamins and minerals. I didn't really know. I thought I knew about food, but I I certainly didn't. And um yeah, it's interesting because I kind of naturally backed off there with certain foods. Um but I kind of continued to eat a broad spectrum of everything in some ways. And for the first time, I'm now noticing what food looks like as it would enter your colon, which is where I had all this disease. So if I was like eating seeds and nuts and things like that, or a seeded bread sandwich and you got tomato in there and maybe chicken and avocado, all this stuff, you're just chewing on it. It's not like I'm not chewing my food, right? I'm just chewing it down. I'm happy. I can swallow it. Right. Good. Three hours later, you can see bits of green like from the avocado, just chunks of it. You could see full-on seeds and big sections of tomato and the skin just hasn't changed. I could see like all the broccoli fuettes and the colors, but I never ever saw any evidence of the meat like the chicken, the fish, the dairy. Every now and again, I'd have some red meat, but mostly in a form of a burger. So you'd eat the burger and you'd see sesame seeds from the bun and you see like parts of chips and stuff like that, like fries, and you'd see like bits of salad and tomato seeds and skins. You never see any beef. It's just liquid. And so it's like the plant material was swimming around in what is normal stool in a sense. And of course, if I had my colon once that food reaches there where I had the disease, that would have aggregated that would have aggravated the ulcers and things like that. you know, all those sharp bits and pieces, the skin, they tell you like remove the skins and seeds from apples and cook your apples. Like it gets to that point where you're so bad. They're like, "Yeah, don't eat the skins and seeds, but they don't realize that the stalks and the stems and all this, it doesn't break down whatsoever, you know." And um obviously for most people, they would reabsorb the water and so it's not going to be like this super liquidy output. So, it's not like I was if you just eat meat, you're going to have diarrhea. It's obviously going to be um metabolized properly and thoroughly. I just don't get the opportunity to do that. But I'm seeing how food would enter the colon. And so it kind of fascinated me. But I still fully believe that I should be eating this stuff because that's where the the nutrition was. I just thought I was getting the macros like protein and some carbs. And so every now and again I would make myself eat some plants and different colors from the plant world just to tick all the boxes, you know. Um but anyway, I just became more and more depressed because of this whole relationship with the bag, food, relationship, you know, sleep, work, everything, sex, everything. It affects absolutely everything. And um I was just getting worse and worse mentally and it got to the point where I became suicidally depressed. I was thinking about it every day in some way, shape or form. I would come home and if no one was here, I got to kind of just be myself. As in like I didn't have to fool people. I didn't have to put on a fake smile or pretend like I'm okay in front of my family cuz I felt guilty. Um I could just be me and and and the funny thing is in those moments I would absolutely freeze. I wouldn't even be able to move cuz I didn't know what I wanted to do with that. Like now I get to be me. Like what do I want to do? How do I be me? And I just froze. Like I don't I didn't feel like I could take steps forward cuz I couldn't see any future with this bag. It's like how am I ever going to get out of this rut? And anyway, I I I actually went back down to my GP, not really wanting to take drugs, but I just I felt like I couldn't handle this anymore on my own. And so, we had another conversation, different doctor, same practice. And um he then said, "Right, here's another number. You call this, this is like a unit, a care unit, and they will help you, you know, resolve with therapy, drugs, whatever." So, it was called we're with you. It was a very long number, and it's like a one-sided thing. So, I could call these um they sorry, you could book like an a call thing, and they call you, but you can't call them back. really strange and um it was like a 45minute conversation and it made me feel quite good because I shared absolutely everything you know just openly about absolutely everything and they were then going to get back to me and you know figure out you know therapy what drugs whatever this kind of stuff and I was just waiting on that call days went by wasn't too worried by now I'm thinking shall I you know and this is when I tried to call them back and you couldn't call this number back anyway two months goes by and I'm just sitting on the sofa or what you call the couch and um watching YouTube and uh Michaela Peterson's anecdote on the low carb down under channel came up. Don't eat this. I was like, "Okay, I I'll watch this." That's what I watched and it just blew me away. I was like, "This might be an answer. It's something." You know, I was on my own again. I don't know. I don't want to just start drinking alcohol. I I quit alcohol. I got off this phone call and they said, "Do you drink?" And I was like, "Yeah." Um it's not like I was crazy on it, but they said, "It would help if you can cut that back." That day, I put the phone down. So, two months before seeing this anecdote, I quit alcohol, but I wasn't right in the head still. So, it wasn't like it was just alcohol. Um, anyway, I was sold on the spot after listening to Michaela Peterson's anecdote and my partner Lucy was sitting to my right and um I was like, I'm going to do this thing. Like, I feel like I have to, you know, it worked for her. She had autoimmune conditions and she had severe depression. Sounds a bit like me, right? So, um I thought, what have I got what have we got to lose? and and Lucy ended up kind of being really supportive and and just jumping on the BBBE challenge overnight, like the next day with me. So, we went down to the shops and stocked up on, you know, beef, butter, bacon, and eggs. Mhm. And that was it. You know, it was just a 30-day challenge. Overnight, my acid reflux went. After a week, my skin improved. Like, I've always suffered really badly with my skin, and I'm quite marked up from the plants, but the moment I adopted this diet, all of that kind of stopped and acne on my back was almost completely gone in a week. So, I was like, that's pretty impressive. That's kind of crazy. wasn't trying to address these things at all of course but my energy was stooping quite a bit and I would say within those first two weeks I was struggling because it was just brand new I switched very fast and I wasn't used to just fat protein I was used to carbs carbs five times a day right so um it was a bit of a slow turnaround in terms of feeling optimal with energy but on day 21 everything just kind of aligned I didn't eat breakfast that day it was a beautiful day and I went out and cleaned windows and after a few hours I was just I realized I was smiling constantly I was just like appreciating nature and the wind and the trees and the birds. I was talking to people like I actually liked people, you know, like I liked life and I like to be alive. And it just everything changed in that moment. I couldn't help it. I pulled over on the side of my on the side of the road in my van and recorded my testimony. Um and I was kind of like I don't know. It's like I believed it. I believed that that was it. It fixed it and I I made this video like my depression is gone, you know. Um all this stuff has improved. And I'd already learned a fair bit. Like I even said in that very first video that I put up on my YouTube, I haven't burnt in the sun. I'm not sweating know this and it was like summer time and I'm look at me, I'm really pale. I'd usually really burn in the sun. I haven't burnt at all. I don't use any sun cream or anything like that. So so many random benefits, but 20 day 21 depression gone and um the rest is history. So yeah. Well, that's amazing. I I think that um it's well I'm just really glad that you you came across that. It's really nice that this was was out there and had this sort of serendipitous moment where you you saw this when when you sort of really needed to see it. Yeah. And um and it was it was very helpful for you. It's you know from the from the mental health side of things, you know, we we're seeing this more and more. We're seeing this in in controlled trials and clinical trials and we're having randomized control trials showing that you can improve mental health with these sorts of dietary interventions that the food that we eat, you know, as it as it turns out, food affects your body if you eat it and your brain's part of your body. It's uh strange but true, but you know, it um it makes a huge difference for people. And you know, and I I would imagine that it it also helped w with your with your issues with the STO as well. Um because I've I've heard you mention and I've certainly seen other people with in the similar situation that it's just it's it's a very different uh experience having a STO on a carnivore diet. Is that right? Yes, definitely. So, I've pretty much stayed away from all plant materials for over two and a half years, barring one time where I personally I ate some local blackberries. I thought, you know, let's see. Let's just see what happens. It's local. I picked them myself. It was off the road, so there's no pollution, no glyphosate. I picked them. I gave them a little wash and I ate them. Never again. Just I just hated it. the experience after like I say after about 3 hours it hits this sort of area and my abdominal wall spasms and reacts and contracts because the food is is not broken down. The fiber is just like cellulose. It's not broken down. It's it's now struggling around the corner and I'm having to even like aid the output. I'm having to push above my sto to help the food come out. It's like always on the verge of being blocked. And sometimes my stomach looked a bit like blown up over the top of my sto. Couple of times in the night I've had things where you wake up and you you feel like it's not painful, but it's kind of like it's not quite right. And then you feel your stomach and it's just almost like overlapping. I don't know, folding over your sto and you're having to kind of push the stomach back. It's really strange. And this is how obviously how robust these fibrous structures are. And I think obviously you got this corner and if you know you put a load of fiber in there all in one go and it's like oh it's a nightmare. And so I did that one time. I have to say I mean the these blackberries smelt and tasted great. Saying that after about a couple of mouthfuls you know you chew this stuff and then you you can you just got fiber in your mouth and it's like it's not even that fun anyway you know. So it lasts about two seconds and you're like it's just fiber. It's like no taste left. You swallow that. It was a nightmare. So that was the very first time. It was only after maybe 2 or 3 months. I can't remember now. But um yeah, I've never gone back to anything else again because it's just so it's effortless. I can't feel when food hits the bag. And I know that that might sound funny to some people. They might think, "Oh, it might fill up or how do you know?" You know, you just check. You just have a look or whatever. But it's it's a breeze. It's um it's a pleasure digesting food. In fact, I don't feel like I'm digesting anything. You know, it's like it's like you've eaten air but now you're not you're not hungry anymore, you know, and it was tasty air. So, like you enjoyed the the experience of eating it and then you you just stop when you're full and then there's no problems afterwards. It's just liquid and people don't a lot of people don't believe me, but I've swallowed chunks of red meat and once it hits that stomach acid, it's liquefied. It's just it's easy and you you're absorbing it. And of course, mine is going to be more liquidy because I don't have the opportunity to reabsorb that water in the colon. But I would take that any day, you know, over fibrous materials, whole grains. I mean, if I had to um if I had to eat some kind of plant material and and suggest something, just say someone had to eat some kind of carbohydrate and they have a bag, I would say white rice, you know. Um if it had to be a fruit, I would say maybe a banana, a soft banana, cuz they're more pliable. But I'm in the UK. I've never seen a banana grow here in the UK. I've never seen any white rice grow here. So, I think I'll just stick to the local beef or the lamb and stuff like that. Yeah, definitely. But, you know, what what would be something you could say to your your former self that may convince you to maybe give this a try and and and sort of deviate away from what um you know, mainstream medicine was telling you. I would keep it really simple and think just imagine you exist 15,000 years ago and before then think about what your lifestyle and diet would look