Carnivore Diet for 40 Years! (You Won't Believe His Age)

welcome to the plant free MD podcast with Dr Anthony chafee where we discuss diet and nutrition and how this affects health and chronic disease and show you how you can use this to optimize your health and happiness both mentally and physically all right uh hello everyone it's Dr Anthony chafee here with another episode of the plant free MD podcast and today I have a very interesting guest uh it's um a friend of mine that I've been talking to online go uh going back for the last few months and um very interesting story because he's actually been a carnivore for basically been the last 40 years or so is that right 39 years yes nine years yeah that's awesome so tell us a bit about yourself and how you got into this uh in the first place and you know how you've been you know just such a break away from the curve for so long well this diet actually a lot of people I've seen like on your channel and other channels they've had health issues they had a reason why they had to change their diet but I did this when I was younger my biggest reason is that I was one of the smallest kids in junior high and I if you saw the pictures of me compared to the other kids it was just mind-boggling the girls were bigger than me that's how bad it was and you know my parents were very health conscious especially my dad so they were always trying to get me to eat what was supposed to be good such as oatmeal and whole grain bread and you know all the stuff that they told you about in the 70s don't eat butter don't eat lard don't eat too much meat because that's bad so it and then the other thing was ah it they had all these vitamins and supplements they had like brewer's yeast and bone meal and vitamin C and just fish oil and all these things and the only thing I ever did like was the cod liver oil they would give me which my mother thought was terrible and the liver that they would give me sometimes which I loved I would even eat it raw but I got the idea from a crazy TV show named The Dukes of Hazzard which had big fat Boss Hog he ate raw liver and everybody was grossed out by it so what happened to me as I was growing up I got to the point where when I was younger I tried to fit in with the other kids but it never worked and as time went on it just got worse I mean elementary school wasn't so bad but by the time I got to Junior High it was just it was unbearable that the constant harassment getting picked on and everything so eventually what happened is I thought well if I can't fit in with the world maybe I need to do the opposite and that might be a better way just do my own thing and forget about what everybody else thinks that's how it started well that's probably a good uh good lesson for most people to learn is just to not worry about it you know um and I think that was uh Joseph Campbell who said you know it doesn't matter what you you think or believe somebody somewhere hates you for it and so you might as well just do what you feel is the right thing to do and just just don't worry about what other people think right yeah so that that was the beginning of it of course it's gone it's gotten more extreme since then yeah and so and so so you went at the time you went just you're not going to eat any plants at all you're only going to eat meat what was it I mean um and and then you've been sort of strict on that since then is that right well it actually it started what happened was when I finished Junior High which was ninth grade I was getting ready for high school and then I was helping my dad build a carport we were trying to put some wood down and I fell down and I broke my arm so I was kind of stuck in the house and it came down to my mother was taking classes because she was getting her renewing her certificate as a teacher and my dad was working as an aircraft mechanic so I was stuck in the house by myself in the summer and there wasn't much to choose from so it came down to well I wasn't really good at cooking so I thought what would be the easiest thing to cook and ever since I was a kid I always liked meat meat was my thing in fact the few times that we did eat out we usually went to a buffet there was a restaurant that was called the Sweden House Smorgasbord and you know the typical all-you-can-eat place they had everything from fruits to salads to meats and one of the things I always liked was the roast beef they had someone buddy that had the little paper hat you know and then they'd carve the roast beef and I'd go there and I'd keep getting it and getting it it was something I liked I also liked the fried chicken and the fish and the shrimp so when I was stuck by myself in the house I thought what would be the easiest thing to cook and just meat and of course we had hamburger meat we had some pieces of steak we had some seafood so I just had to teach myself how to cook that food and it just it tasted good it was convenient and I wasn't starving hey guys just want to take a second to thank our sponsor the carnivore bar I don't promote many products because honestly all you need to be healthy is to just eat meat for those times that you're out hiking road tripping or stuck at work and you want nutritious snack that is just meat fat and salt if you want it the carnivore bar is a great option so I like this product not because it's just pure meat but also because I want the carnivore Market to thrive as well and the more we support meat only products the more meat only products there will be available in the mainstream so if this sounds like something you'd like to get behind check it out using my discount code Anthony to get 10 off which also applies to subscriptions giving you 25 off total all right thanks guys yeah and then as far as just them not eating all the other things how did that how did that come into play where you just said all right yeah I'm not going to touch any of that stuff anymore well that was actually purely by accident because when I was a kid I used to have problems I would get headaches once in a while I used to get gas which was really embarrassing and I noticed that when I didn't eat the bread and I didn't eat any of the pasta or the rice or any of the other stuff that didn't seem to be a problem and then the other thing that happened to me over that summer I wasn't afraid because I was thinking I was just dreading having to go to high school and get picked on and harassed and all that but then when when the time came around I wasn't really dreading it even though my arm was broken I was delayed by a couple weeks I just felt like everything was just a lot easier to manage you know I used to get upset I'd throw a tantrum cry about things get mad and it just it didn't happen anymore it just got to the point where it wasn't that big of a deal yeah well that's good and then I mean it's really interesting too that you sort of intuitively you know went to eating what what worked for your body and what made you feel better and that was great that your your parents let you get away with that mine did not you know I well actually my parents fought it and it was it was kind of funny because they didn't want me to eat all that meat they were saying well you know my mom had had breast cancer she had breast cancer I think it was 1978 and I started this diet in 1983. so they were afraid oh I'm going to get cancer because I ate too much meat but then my dad had said well he's the kid you know what's the difference and the other thing was they had tried many different things to try to get me to get bigger because I was small but they gave me stuff like protein powder and Ovaltine and all this other stuff which I absolutely hated I just just the thought of that makes me feel sick yeah you know and I don't know I just oh I just I can't even think about it at this point yeah but it came came down to my parents it was like well what are we going to do you know we can try to force them they would encourage me to eat the brown rice you know but a lot of times what I would do when they give me the healthy food my dining room was next to the window and we have a lot of ducks around so what I would do is I'd wait until the Ducks were there and I'd start putting the food outside the Ducks would eat it they'd eat the bread they'd eat the rice whatever and I would just go for the meat so they figured you know just let him eat whatever he's going to eat well since we went to the buffet two or three times a week I'd hit that and just eat the meat so it got it got to the point where you know don't fight him yeah but then the real miracle happened which none of us expected I went from being one of the shortest kids in school to the second tallest when I graduated high school it's just incredible I couldn't believe it myself yeah so how tall are you now six foot six awesome yeah that's a that's a that's a recovery story right there yeah I had you know and I had some I have some pictures that um I I kept from some of the old uh photo albums and the Junior High yearbook and all that and you can kind of see how it progressed from being really small to just getting really big the only thing is that the last time that I went to see some of the high school reunion I was the only one that looked pretty much the same as when I was in high school I haven't changed that much yeah it was cool now if you don't mind me asking how old are you now 54. there you go and you certainly don't look uh like you're in your 50s at all you know but no imaginations yeah I've been mistaken for 35 more than once yeah you know and I mean you can see I have a full head of full head of hair and no gray hair so I think that has something to do with the diet I think so yeah absolutely well that's awesome yeah I wish that I was I was able to pull that one off for my parents that they did they did that was a no no go for for them um you know as I would have only eaten meat if I if I had the opportunity to that's all I would that's all I would cook for myself I remember always looking in the fridge you'd open up the fridge and just be like there's no food in here it's just ingredient tactfully like where's the food there's no food there's just like just you know just leaves and produce and ingredients or something else it was like the hell is there to eat and now they'd be like like some steak stuffing somewhere like okay I'll get that out and um that's the only thing that I would eat that I would want to eat if I was cooking for myself and you want to I moved out into college that's all that's all I ever bought was just meat and uh you know just like chicken and things and then beef and um I was still sort of you know avoiding fat just because that's what you were supposed to do you're supposed to avoid fat um and then every now and I buy some like salad stuff or whatever I guess you're supposed to have a salad um but uh yeah when I would eat that that's all I wanted to eat either as well and and then of course when I went to just not eating plants I did that um you know pretty pretty wholeheartedly um well that's cool I wish I'd done it started earlier though so I could actually have gotten some of the growth uh benefits because I I would have been much happier six six I didn't tell you right well you seem to have done very well you look extremely healthy I mean you're not skinny like me yeah well you know I um I feel healthy and that's good unfortunately like you know I started doing carnivore when you know my growth plates had all sealed off so I was sort of you know um you know at my at my full height at that point where it would have been sort of fun to see this sort of you know uh in the middle of puberty or early puberty and really really gotten a shot up with it and yeah that would have been great yeah and it certainly sounds like it worked for you yeah the amazing thing is that I never had any Growing Pains I didn't even think about it it just kind of happened on its own it was such a smooth transition you would think that anyone that grew as fast as I did it would be painful in some way but it wasn't in fact it was the opposite other kids I knew had Growing Pains I never had any I never even got acne when I was a teenager not one pimple and the other thing is too I deliberately tried to eat as much fat as I could I used to eat butter whenever I could get my hands on it I would eat lard right out of the tub you know I always went for the fat and they told me oh that's going to kill you you're going to get a heart attack I even told my parents to look I'd rather die of a heart attack than live small like that I'm just going to eat all this fat and if it kills me it'll be like that you know I won't be weak and helpless I'll just be dead yeah well you know and that's it that's a yeah I mean it's so great that you actually like intuitively just went for that and uh and it and it obviously had like a huge effect and like that's that's something that um I think is uh is obviously missing and today is not getting enough fat not getting proper nutrition but I think the fat is a big one such a big one it's so important for our neural development as well as our our actual musculature as well you need cholesterol you know for your hormones and uh and for muscle growth I mean you know cholesterol is actually found in recent studies to be an independent um uh factor in in muscle growth and hypertrophy when you're exercising you need more cholesterol uh in order to do that and it probably has a lot to do with uh you know hormonal regulation as much as anything else but um but it was interesting anyway and so yeah that's uh that's very interesting that you just sort of naturally went to that um and so so so the classic things would be you know okay well after about 10 years your gut health is going to be horrible you're going to have colon cancer and all these polyps and things like that how'd that one turned out well you know it's funny you mentioned that because they always told me the meat's going to give you constipation you'll never be able I won't go to the bathroom but once a week well the joke's on them because I go at least once a day most of the time twice a day it's not a lot but it's a regular thing you know usually after breakfast and then sometime after dinner so I've never had constipation in my life the only time I've had digestive issues is when I get the flu when I get the flu I may get diarrhea I may get gas I may get like a grumbling or some kind of weird noise but that's really been it I it has not damaged my digestion in any way yeah good and you know there's um and no no problems no diagnosing going to the doctor and saying well this is off you got to be careful about something maybe you have you know uh some issues with your you know uh Health in some manner is that has that ever been raised well the problem is I haven't been to a doctor since 1996. it's just the last time I went I had to get a checkup for an insurance plan that I was in but I haven't had a lot of money so what I would do I would just you know I couldn't afford health insurance anymore so I gave up on it and I thought well I mean if I get sick I get sick but no I haven't been to a doctor in fact I don't I don't know how my cholesterol is I don't even know what blood type I have I have no idea you know it's like I haven't been to a dentist since 1986. yeah you know because the same reason I got broken teeth and they're crooked but what happened to me when I was younger my teeth grew in like crowded and then they wanted to put braces on when my parents had money and I said look I don't they want to pull the teeth in the back I'm like no no no no no no I'm just going to take my chances but the funny thing is that when I switch my diet even though the wisdom teeth came in they were not impacted in any way they managed to fit it's like the jaw got bigger you know when that came I don't know what happened but and I haven't had a cavity since I was a kid yeah well it does the jaw does get bigger and you know that's it that was you know that's the thing that you know when you're when you started doing it you were still growing you're still developing you still had an opportunity to do that and your jaw will get get bigger and wider and and uh and you will have room for your wisdom teeth so if that is interesting you know because it's a demonstration of that effect as well because like you know early on you weren't eating the right way and so your jaw was smaller your teeth were crowded and crooked which is not genetic that is that is purely nutritional and uh well and and environmental chewing on things and whatever you know they can have a big effect on your own mouth and tooth development but you know then you switch over to carnivore especially high fat and all of a sudden your jaw is growing big enough and now your wisdom teeth come in and that's the thing you know we did not get really impacted wisdom teeth uh you know even 100 years ago you know that was a very rare thing except in in poor impoverished areas that they really weren't able to get get meat you know as a staple of their diet but you know in the the caveman um uh fossils you know before the Agricultural Revolution there's no there's no there's no impacted teeth all the wisdom teeth are have erupted and are fully fully formed and developed uh you know mouth teeth and Jaws so that's that is not something that should happen and that's even in the Dentistry journals and uh that this is this is uh nutritional it is not it's not genetic yeah yeah I didn't know that at the time but it seemed to be a side effect there's a lot of things that happened that I didn't expect to happen which did so you know now and you know you have to realize that until 2020 I didn't even know that this diet was a thing you know I didn't know about you or Sean Baker or anybody it's just that when we had the pandemic usually I'm outside I don't spend a lot of time on the computer but I had I had to be at the house it's like well you know I had taken care of my mom for years and then she passed away and then we had the pandemic and but then I ended up just going online and then I don't remember who was the first one that I saw I don't think it was yours I think it might have been it was either that fruity guy saladino or it was Sean Baker one of those two but uh but you you came later and you seemed like the one that was I don't know I just liked your channel better that's why I was corresponding with you and sending you messages because yeah I was impressed with you oh well thank you I appreciate that well I think I think everyone has you know something to to contribute to this you know certainly uh you know Dr Baker um I've you know tons of respect for I don't think I've um you know come across too many people that are as knowledgeable as he is and you'll say with solidino though I mean we disagree on the fruit and honey thing and the sugar thing but I think basically everything else I don't think I've really heard much uh apart from that that uh that I that I would disagree with you know so I think they're all good good resources um and obviously you know Dr Barry is you know is fantastic I think I really like him as well well yeah my my friend that's 76 he likes Dr Barry a lot he likes to watch his videos and he has in he has some good information but he has too many people following him I don't I don't like to watch Channels that have a lot of people especially in the chat because he can't interact with him at all so I mean there's good information but I'd rather have you know on a channel where there's a lot less you know a lot less competition let's put it that way yeah competition also noise you know it's just yeah and it's hard doing those lives as well because you're trying to keep track of questions and things like that and they're just they're just the pages just scrolling scrolling scrolling scrolling scrolling and you try to sort of you know scroll up to just hang on one question and then like there's just 50 more that come after it it's difficult especially on like Instagram that's impossible you know because you only see like one or two comments at a time and it Scrolls up Scrolls up Scrolls up Scrolls up so you look at like oh what's that it's gone already it's already gone I've never used Instagram believe it or not oh don't ever start it's awful no I I'm not a big social media person let's put it that way no I I I'm not either I hate it I uh it's it's a necessary evil unfortunately these are the platforms that uh you get you get your message out and so it's it's good for that and I appreciate it and on that level certainly but my God is at a time sink and um I just I way rather uh be like you and just be outside outside doing things and enjoying life then um then sort of just stuck on my phone all the time which is what I unfortunately have to do because I'm you know this is this is how I sort of do my work that's the media if you saw what kind of phone I used you would laugh I would probably be jealous is what I would be that's that's it that's awesome you know I would I would totally yeah I would I would totally go for that if I could you know and I haven't I haven't had a landline in years but I use voice over IP but I don't use a cell phone I had a cell phone for many years I had one of the Motorola bricks which I have on my shelf somewhere and I used to be in contact but it when I have my business but when we close the business I didn't want to be you know on the electronic leash anymore it just got to the point where it was nothing but a bother yeah absolutely and it's I think it is it is sort of freeing not being you know uh touched your phone that people can just constantly message you you sort of feel a bit a bit concerned though you leave like now I leave the house I don't have my phone I'm like oh my god oh I'm not just detached from the world and um but like and it's just weird you have this sort of sense of you know unease when you're going around without your phone because well what if I need a now what if I need to Google something like my God you know like and um I might have to like remember to look it up later like well How's that gonna work I do carry around an old cell phone just for 9-1-1 calls in case there's an emergency but it's like friends of mine say well you need a cell phone what happens if your car breaks down I said that's why I got a toolbox behind the seat yeah you know I've never had to call anyone I always fix it on the side of the road and then oh what if somebody wants to contact you well who's going to contact me my friends know that they can call me at home when I'm home I'll answer the phone when I'm not home you know who knows where I am I may be working or I may be out in the Everglades walking around you know you never know yeah well it wasn't like it's only well then they can send a pigeon I don't know but like like it um but that was the thing too you know it it made it a bit um better I think for personal interactions because you would um you make plans people had to keep those plans a lot more than that it's so easy to like just break uh break plans now you can just text like oh yeah oh sorry I'm gonna be you know it's just like you have plans with someone who's like hey let's meet here at this time oh shoot oh gosh you know it's just like you can just break these plans so easily whereas when you when you have that sort of face face like hey you're meeting someone here you better be there on time or else you're leaving that person waiting they're going to be pretty pissed off you know because that's why you consider it and or you just don't show up at all you're like are you kidding me you know like that's uh that's something that was that that wasn't really uh acceptable um and uh but now it's really easy to to get away with that sort of thing whereas before you had someone you know sort of stand you up and be like all right well you know they're dead and you sort of found out who was uh responsible and reliable person pretty easily that way as well so yeah we miss out on that too that's right and the thing is a lot of people they do this text messaging I said you know by the time you take your big fingers and try to push the little things on the phone just call me just pick up the phone talk to me will be done and that's it I don't have to text anything yeah you know but but nobody even remembers phone numbers anymore but if you want to call someone oh I got to look you don't know the phone number I said well when I was a kid I knew everybody's phone number I know like 40 phone numbers right now I can call anybody I want I don't need a phone yeah I assume that I used to know that as well when I was a kid um oh just every now and then I just sort of write out all the phone numbers I had it got up to like 130 140 numbers that I had memorized and um and every now and then I'd just be like what if I forget them will that be bad and so I just sort of write them all out I'm like oh okay all right that's right and uh I don't know any of those now I don't know any of three and um I remember my childhood phone numbers well fair enough you know I use them a lot and um and my phone number now and that's basically it and so now I've got like yeah and so I've got four phone numbers in my head three of them are useless because they're they're for houses that like you know no one lives in anymore you know right well I kept my childhood phone number I still have it but no one's ever called me from back then now I did keep the number I converted to voice over IP and the good thing is I wherever I live I can take the number with me so I don't have to I'm not tied to a location anymore well that's true too yeah well I guess that's the benefit of itself a cell phone as well I still have my my uh um cell phone number from years ago um well that's cool man so and then so so what do you do now and how do you find that this helps you and affects you like so you're eating what exactly are you eating now is you're eating sorts two three times a day or what are you doing yeah I generally eat at least three times a day sometimes I eat four times a day but um and it depends on what I have when I lately I haven't been able to eat as much as I normally would because the price of meat has gone into the stratosphere but I used to be able to get stuff marked down so cheap you wouldn't believe it I was eating for half of what everybody else I know was eating yeah because I could get I could get ground meat as cheap as 99 cents a pound and I was getting ribeye steak for like four dollars a pound because what would happen is if they couldn't sell it you know it's going to expire the next day they'd mark it down at least 50 percent sometimes more than that so I was eating three four pounds of meat a day no problem and I'd usually knock out you know one or two pounds per meal and but now it's mostly it's either shoulder cuts which are cheaper of beef or ground beef I usually get the fattiest stuff I can which is like 70 73 percent you know lean and the rest of its fat and most of the time I'll cook it up like a stew I just put the beef in a pot and just you know Stir It Up a little bit sometimes I'll add some plant material for example I'll put a tomato in there from the garden so that it'll turn it into like a little soup otherwise I just make a Patty out of it and eat it yeah nice and um and so what are your how you feeling that you feel like um uh you know a lot of energy you can you can sort of uh go further than other people well I'll tell you I'm the only one I know that once if I need to get up at a certain time I will get up at that time I usually get up at eight o'clock in the morning I go to bed around midnight sometimes one sometimes later I've been in bed sometimes three in the morning and I still get up at eight and as soon as I get up I can get right out of bed I don't have take any coffee or anything I go straight outside and look for eggs so that's what I normally do in the morning so I'll put my shoes on I'll go outside sometimes I'm in the underwear sometimes I put clothes on and I'll just go looking for eggs that's the first thing I do do you have chickens then no there's ducks I live in the suburbs so we can't have chickens but the Ducks they kind of roam wild so I feed them all the time and they leave me eggs under the bushes and near the house and all kinds of places oh cool oh very good that's fine you can probably get uh I was thinking too like you're down in the in near the Everglades it was a gator is that impossible well I mean I haven't seen them but I eat iguana we have iguanas taking over oh yeah oh wow they were taking over the neighborhood really bad for a while but I've eaten probably hundreds of those things you know a lot of times I'll just grab them by the tail and I got them and then you know just whacked their head off and carve them up the normal way I eat iguana I have a couple of videos on my channel that shows how you boil the iguana and peel the skin so I love iguana yeah yeah I mean I don't eat duck anymore because now the Ducks are kind of my pets but I've eaten duck before I've had people paying me to get rid of a nuisance duck and I'll bring the duck here and then I let them go with the other ducks and if they get along fine but some of the Ducks are aggressive and they'll fight and they'll Peck at the other Ducks so then I move ducky to the special area and I feed him for a couple of weeks and then next thing you know he's in my refrigerator yeah like um well I guess you know you're you're you're uh sort of doing the same sort of things you would in the wild and hunting and trapping and all these sorts of things just in the the sort of the suburban suburban uh version of the Ducks that's right yeah and you'd be amazed you know some of the some of the wealthiest neighborhoods near here have the worst iguana problem they just they take over they burrow in the side of the canal they go in ponds they burrow holes in the yard they go all over um I have a friend of mine his wife is terrified of lizards so it's like a nightmare every time they see an iguana and I've caught some that were four feet long I mean there's some really big iguanas and I mean you'd be surprised how much meat is in one of those things no kidding like they have they have a big iguana problem in those areas because they're not they're not enough uh people to eat them you know a lot of people that's it they don't they don't really have any natural Predators other than a few people that eat iguana yeah and it's a view you're another natural predator yeah there you go I was I was fixing an air conditioning last an air conditioner last week I had the cover off of it and then the guy's like oh there's an iguana so I ran over there I grabbed the Iguana I put it in my truck you know put a tape around it and then when I came home later that day I had iguana for dinner [Music] yeah well it's definitely good with with meat prices going up you know it's definitely that's right it definitely helps that that's right and iguanas don't have the personality that the Ducks do you know sometimes I look at the duck I feel sorry for them other times you know the Ducks do have sharp claws and they are kind of aggressive sometimes so some of them are mean others are friendly the friendly ones usually end up out in the yard and they get fed and the mean ones they end up in the refrigerator you're using some natural unnatural selection to get to uh nicer Ducks I guess yeah well that's the other thing in this neighborhood all my neighbors know me I've been able to control the population very effectively because I tell them whenever you see a nest call me and I will take care of it you know because what will happen is these ducks can lay 20 eggs and they'll hatch and there will be ducklings everywhere all over the neighborhood and then they fall in the drains and then they have problems and people feel sorry for them but if you eat the eggs first there won't be any ducklings a lot of times I'll put plastic eggs in place of the real ones and the mama will sit there for a while and then eventually abandon the nest and as long as I can keep an eye out where the nest are I can control the population oh interesting yeah we we may only get 10 or 20 every season that hatch the rest of them the eggs are eaten so we don't have hundreds like some neighborhoods some neighborhoods are so full of ducks it's unreal yeah yeah interesting yeah you know and then that is a good way of of keeping that sort of that population control in that area as well so it doesn't get getting into like an infestation problem like like the iguanas which uh you're also helping with that's right I don't I don't see any iguanas in my yard anymore I haven't seen one here in like two or three months yeah well they've learned the word has gone out well that's it they're smart enough to know not to come here they were eating my bananas they were eating papayas they were eating because I got fruit trees all over the place and I actually I'm actually a very good Gardener yeah I'm probably the best Gardener in this whole area yeah I have the green thumbs like you wouldn't believe yeah because I've always been a plant you know plant grower plant person which is ironic because I don't eat plants and yet I grow all kinds of plants yeah well they're also very pretty and enjoyable to you know have a tender Garden as well you know that's certainly uh true and they they feed the animals too true and then you and those animals feed you so that's good that's right well a lot of the fruits away to friends of mine like the bananas I grow oh they love those bananas they got the little finger bananas and the Pearl bananas and the plantains and everything and I will eat plantains occasionally but plantains as you know are the hard green bananas and they're they're kind of like a potato but without the toxins because you know potatoes being a root and a Nightshade that's not something that you really want to eat yeah but you know if you ever have a taste for French fries or whatever you just get some plantains cut them with a fry cutter and fry them in beef Tallow not the healthiest thing in the world but is better than french fries from you know fast food place sure and then so so have you because you've been doing this for so long is that something you've looked into as as far as Optimal Health and and toxins and plants and things like that well I really didn't look into it until 2020. now I instinctively knew that most plant parts are toxic you know being a gardener yeah I used to tell I had some vegetarian and and Friends some of them even went vegan and I said look you know you eat plants but if you go around my yard how many of these plants are edible maybe two percent maybe one percent and not all parts of a plant are edible I mean I could I could give you delicious bananas but you're not going to eat the leaves off the banana plant because you'll get sick yeah I mean they're not really poisonous but they are toxic and if they weren't toxic animals and insects would eat everything there'd be nothing out there you'd go outside it'd be all stripped it'd be nothing but a few dead stems and you know maybe a couple of seeds that are haven't sprouted yet because without poison how's the plant going to defend itself that's it and I kind of knew that you know just from growing plants yeah which is which is funny because I mean this is this isn't actually A New Concept you know like that's something that's just very well known in Horticulture and botany and then just be all about just can't possibly be true oh well if it's if it's uh you know it's a toxin then you know it's just a threesome now it's not going to cause anything like um that's the dead ass wrong I mean that's just your own ignorance spilling over and just because you don't know something doesn't mean it doesn't exist and I remember you know like you know Lane Norton says like oh well if plants are you know trying to kill you then they're not doing a really good job you know because uh you know all the all the studies show that that people who eat more plants live longer like first of all that's not true it's not true in the least but second of all um you know you have diabetes heart disease cancer autoimmune diseases all these different sorts of problems um that can be directly related and attributable to these plant toxins like I think it's actually doing a pretty good job and you know when the fact that you know five kidney beans undercooked can put you in the hospital the the denial of those the of the presence of those toxins is pretty laughable say oh well we don't eat kidney beans when they're raw right because we're not adapted to we're not able to suss out those those chemicals and those defense chemicals naturally which means this is an unnatural food source right you should be able to just digest in a properly uh you know appropriate this tissue into your own tissue but you know it's uh obviously not possible um so there's so many things wrong with that but I mean in fact the matter is it's just it's just just the pure uh you know ignorance to this entire body of knowledge which you know we've had for a very long time you as a gardener just know this you know and most people who work in a garden know this anyone who studied botany knows this whether or not they eat plants or not they at least understand the concept that plants can can eat uh or plants can can cause harm in animal husbandry this is also very well known you know there's a number of diseases that that are specifically caused by the animal eating outside of the it's normal natural diet right and so and we have names for these things and that's like oh yeah that you know big head that comes from you know eating these plants and causes this problem right and so it's it's very well known it's very well understood and it's completely ignored in human health and nutrition which you know obviously uh is is why I'm sort of banging this drum just because like this is this is this is a major contributor to disease and you know even even people you know like Lane and and others I mean they they still make the assertion that eating the wrong thing will cause these problems but then they just like forget that that means there's something in the food that causes problems right and that that the problems that come from these things you know like oh she's processed foods okay what what are the processed foods it's processed plants it's all processed plant products right and processed um you know added sugars and things like that well sugar comes from Plants right and you know and they're adding sugar to carbs and plants and all that sort of stuff oh but it's it's probably no no it's processed plants you know it's you're just even if you go vegetarian you're you and you will health and you and you your health improves you're just replacing you know a worse plant product with a less bad plant product that's all you're doing you know and so you know and of course there are varying degrees of these toxins but they do exist that's a hard fact I don't need a epidemiological study to tell me that I'll take a a botany textbook over any sort of nonsense sense in epidemiology any day of the week and you know but you know it's great to hear that you know like this is this is actually you know something that is known in the Gardner Community like you weren't even trying to do this and and going from my angle it was just like oh actually these things have poison yeah and you could see it a lot of times when you have a plant like for example I in my yard I grow Angels Trumpet which is a toxic plant and there's a type of hornworm that eats it it's the same hornworm that eats tobacco and you know some other Nightshade plants and what will happen is when it starts to eat this plant it'll strip the leaves it'll eat the whole plant and the plant will go dormant then when it starts to put on new leaves it becomes much more toxic so the plant will secrete more toxins so that way you start to see them eating again and then they die off because the plant is designed in such a way that it can fight that now I've seen other plants like milkweed that don't do that it'll Sprout up in the yard the mocks will come and they'll lay their eggs and the caterpillars will eat the whole thing then it'll regrow again and after two or three times it's dead the plant can no longer survive because it wasn't able to kill off the insects that were eating it so you don't see that in the yard anymore it'll come and it'll disappear but other plants they keep regenerating it's like the oak trees we have here when the leaves first come out they're edible and the moths and The Beetles will eat them and then when they start to get hard they don't eat them even the orange trees that I have the limes the orange all the Citrus when Citrus leaves are green and harder and older they're immune to just about anything but when they first come out when they're young leaves that's when they get attacked by most of the insects so it's it's true of the plant kingdom you can just see the way they are now another thing that I've noticed and I don't know if it's because of the carnivore diet or genetics but I'm not affected by poison ivy or poison wood I've always been a big fan of poisonous plants I have a Poisonwood Tree in my yard I had a manchineal tree which is the most toxic plant in Florida I think the whole no United States the little Rosary peas those toxic little seeds and you know none of those plants bother me the only thing that really bothers me is a plant that we have called velvet bean velvet bean has this fur that grows on the odds and if I even get near that stuff it makes me itch like crazy it is an absolute horrific plant so that's the one plant that I do not want to go anywhere near yeah that's funny and that's true too you know I mean you um plants are also will increase the um the production of these toxins when they're being attacked with like a fungal infection or insect infestation or something like that they'll start increasing the toxins designed to defend them against you know that bug or that pathogen and so when you get this is this is true for vegetables that we eat too you know if if a vegetable or celery or something like that is is sort of has a bit of mold on it or has a bit of insect biting on it you know some people actually know that and they're just thinking about that you're like oh you look at this oh it has a bit of you know a worm has been eating it or some insects have been biting on it there's a bit of a fungal infection oh that's not good why is it not as good it's because you're going to get damaged or infected by the fact that this bug ate it previously it's not there anymore um or there's a bit of a fungal thing on there okay well you can cut that out right so the fungus shouldn't be the problem the bug shouldn't be the problem but we sort of know this actually it's like oh if it's been sort of email well that means it's not good but what is actually happening there is that the plant actually increases the the toxins and poisons directed towards those things to defend it and so now that the plant is just more toxic in general and so it ends up being bad for us and so we've known that oh it's not good if it's been eaten by a bug well why is that because there's more toxins in it you know and that's that's something that uh that we see um I'm curious to see like what we should be doing this for decades you know so what about the people around you what about your your family and friends and and parents and what have they been influenced by your example my parents were not influenced by my example um my dad when he started to get sick yeah he did eat steak a few times and he told me I feel a lot better I said yeah well you should eat steak every day but he wouldn't do it because he was still convinced that too much meat was bad for you it would Harden your arteries you'd get heart disease or maybe you would get cancer my mother did not like meat at all in fact when she was younger she was anemic they used to give her liver this was back in the 1930s and they knew back then that it would help but she wouldn't eat it she'd give it to her cat the same way that I'd give the bread and stuff to the Ducks yeah but yeah just my parents did really listen to me they thought I was a little crazy my friends you know in the beginning they all thought I was nuts but over time I had one friend of mine who was a bodybuilder and this was like in 2000 he went to the same diet that I was eating which is basically a carnivore diet because he was he was doing you know bodybuilding and he used steroids and all that to get big but then he started having back problems and he started having joint problems and wasn't feeling good so he thought well it's not worth it you know you go through all this work and then you go to a contest and you barely place you're going against all these steroid monsters so he thought instead of going that extreme he would just try to be lean and healthy and he always struggled with gaining weight but he would look at me and see me eating a bunch of food I mean I'd knock out three or four Stakes no problem you know fried chicken cooked in large butter and bunch of eggs sometimes a dozen eggs and how do you not gain any weight I don't know so he started eating like me he's been doing it for what more than 20 years I mean this was I mean it's uh 2000 is when he changed his diet so yeah it's been more than 20 years he's 48 now and he's in good health no he I talked to him once in a while he says oh I feel great but he lives up in Minnesota so he doesn't get out like in the Sun but they do have a greenhouse a real big Greenhouse with tropical plants in it so even in the winter time he can still I guess go into the tropics yeah but uh yeah I got another friend that I made about 10 years ago he started he was morbidly obese he's had heart bypass and just a complete mess but he's actually in fact recently he's been eating raw ground beef he was in a rehabilitation hospital and hadn't moved much for for months and he's walking around and driving around and he says he feels better than ever and he's the one that likes to follow Ken Berry so you know but he was one of those that ate a lot of baked goods a lot of carbohydrates and you know a lot of sugary stuff and he was able to break free from it so I got to give him credit for that yeah it's definitely difficult you know and especially for uh you know getting rid of the carbs in general but sugar in particular that this would be very difficult for people and and yeah so it's anytime you can break that addiction to get away especially because most people just don't recognize that it is as bad as it is and so they just don't think like yeah I don't I don't need to do that it's not really affecting me even though they don't know the contrast whereas if they stop it they'd see like oh wow actually that was really affecting me quite significantly um and whereas uh you know when you don't have a frame of reference it's very hard to to just make that leap of faith mm-hmm yeah that's right and the thing is a lot of times like my own my dad he didn't want to eat anything sweet but I kept telling him I said you know you eat a lot of bread you eat pasta that's still sugar oh no that's not sugar he said yes it is that's glucose you know that's sugar oh it can't be huh yeah it is it's sugar I mean at one time he was using fructose as a sweetener because it was low on the glycemic index and I was like is it fructose to sweet stuff that comes out of fruit oh it's from fruit it must be good yeah it's like when I was a kid they'd give me apple juice and orange juice they thought that was healthy you know they had those commercials the Florida Sunshine tree with Anita Bryant you know and then you know she'd sing some song and go in the Orange Grove and oh what could be healthier than that but when we had orange juice it was usually a frozen block a concentrate that you'd add to water and I I grew up binges and I noticed that when you juice them by the next day it's you can't drink it it's so oxidized and nasty you just have to pour it out so I'm thinking what do they do to this juice to make it where it tastes good you know it could be in the freezer for months and it tastes good and yet the stuff that you get yourself fresh it doesn't last but few hours in the refrigerator yeah like um I remember that those blocks of uh this solid uh juice concentrate we used to have those as well um yeah those were funny you sort of like just like rip the top off the can just [Laughter] but my parents used to cut it with a knife they cut it with a knife and then put the Block in there and add some cold water to it and that was the orange juice yeah that's funny um yeah I remember I remember doing that I remember when we were kids it would be rare that we would get the juice um but every now and then we would and um there's my my parents were good about that they would they kept us kept sugar out of the house pretty pretty well and uh but that was one thing that they would have every now and then but when we would make juice because we never had sugar like like the kids would just be there piling it would just be like just guzzling just like oh my god oh so God oh my God and like it was just pour and it would be gone you know to be a pitcher of juice made and it would be gone in in less it took it would it would be gone quicker than it took to like make the juice and that was sort of the only sort of uh uh you know bottleneck in our juice experience because it actually took longer to like make and mix and get all the juice out and stuff like that and stir it around then to drink it because you just you just guzzle it down and um like I don't want to like make all that again you know and yeah yeah it was crazy how like addictive that is but yeah and and you and just because you just look at you look how it just voraciously looks like you're gonna have to have to like you know have that I mean that's that's a bit this should be a bit concerning oh yeah well I was one of the few kids that didn't like sweet things a lot of times in school they'd give us candy or something as a treat and I never like candy so I would usually feed it to the Ducks I'd break it in pieces and throw it to the Ducks and they'd gobble it up now these attacks are just you know just killing it with you yeah well I'm that's one of the things I like I love Ducks you know I mean I got duck statues and figurines I got ducks on the yard I'm I'm a duck I love Ducks I don't know why ever since I was a kid every time I saw a duck I was excited because I mean they're cute the Ducks we have here are kind of ugly to most people they're the Muscovy ducks they're real big they got the red stuff on their face and they have that funny looking beak and you know but the little ducklings are so cute they're the cutest little things that I mean it's just amazing you know they're like live rubber duckies and they run around and they're really cute but some people really hate the Ducks and they say oh we don't want because they poop everywhere the Ducks are like a pooping machine yeah I mean everywhere they go there's duck poop yeah but you know when I was a kid I discovered that duck poop actually made my plants grow a lot better so I would encourage them to come around and you know I I got the biggest banana plants in the neighborhood yeah well that's the thing is just like I you know people say oh my God this poop everywhere is like that's fertilizer you know like that's supposed to be there or like people like that's the thing okay in neighborhoods that's one thing you don't want some you know dogs just crapping on your lawn or something like that fine for the Aesthetics or whatever um fine but like when you're walking in the woods or like at a park or something like that and their size is like pick up you know your dog like are you out of your damn mind like I mean that's exactly where animals are supposed to poop is in the woods you know that's that's good for the environment you know it's like you're gonna pick this up you're gonna put it in a plastic non-biodegradable plastic bag and you're gonna put that in the trash that's gonna go to a landfill like are you out of your moment like why is that a good thing I mean it's so it's so silly and I remember you know hiking when I was a kid and you were camping backpacking and people were talking about how dirty humans were and how like oh my God like 60 of the bulk of our feces are bacteria like oh my God and and um and so you would you would go into the woods and you would pack out everything out right and so this is like this is like people that were like peeing into like bags and like carrying somebody's like that's disgusting first of all they were also like with their feces as well they'd pay packing they got to pack it out I'm like why would you do that you're like why is it oh because it destroys the environment just so we're not an invasive alien species you know we didn't like just come here from Mars and just yeah and just like just say that everything we touched just is destroyed you know like this is this is actually part of the environmental process the ecosystem where like you know we eat things and then we defecate out nutrients that you know plants and fungus and bacteria eat and that's how they that's how they work you know and uh it's so silly that's right well the thing is I mean it's like me you know I I water my plants all the time I go out by the banana tree and take a leak and I've done it for years and hasn't killed anything like I said I got the best looking banana plants in the neighborhood do you no one people come over like what is that so that's that's a banana this thing is like 25 feet tall I've never seen one that big well between the Ducks and me and all the compost and everything everything that's generated in nature all returns to the ground you know that's that's like when we used to have cattle around here now it's all development the cows would eat grass they'd poop it out it would rain it would grow more grass the land that had cows on it had much more grass than just the empty lots which were just a couple of weeds maybe a couple of bushes and that was it and the pasture was just all green because they're constantly eating this stuff and bacteria are breaking it down and they're pooping it out yeah yeah it makes it better for everyone and I I don't know if your your friends are gonna to accepting of your bananas uh when you tell them that they're they're fed with your urine but uh well that's I've had a few people say well I don't want it but other people say I don't care those are good bananas I mean you know compared to the Cavendish garbage you get in the store this is just amazing you know I don't even like fruit but I'll eat the bananas occasionally it's just I like them when they're kind of green I don't like them when they're too ripe I'll take a bite out of it and spit it out because it's just I can't I can't eat it so I'll just they get too ripe I throw them to the ducks the ducks will take care of it for me but it always goes back to the Ducks always back to the duck so you know that's the that's the thing when it comes to processed food I have a term for that that everybody that knows me laughs at I call it duck food you know the chips the the fries whatever the bread that's all duck food yeah so whatever they have that's going bad or they don't want to say bring it here and throw it to the ducks in fact a friend of mine just gave me a bunch of pasta that had those little weevils in it and I've been soaking that in water and giving it to the Ducks that's funny yeah weevil's probably be pretty good for it oh they grabbed that first that's the thing about ducks if you throw down meat bread bugs whatever the first thing they'll go for is the bugs then the meat then the bread nice so even they know what's good yeah definitely well that's cool man well hey uh Rick it was it was absolute pleasure uh to meet you uh it was great to talk to you finally face to face so we've been sort of chatting back and forth and it's been great it's awesome to see people that um you know have been doing this I mean just intuitively just was just listening to their bodies and having such great health benefits you know growing like a beanstalk um you know after they started and then just being in in such good health uh since they're not going to a doctor in 30 years I mean that's I think that speaks for itself right there you know and that's true yeah and so you know that's it's really great to see you know a lot of people do get worried or what about in 10 years what about in 20 years what about heart disease what about colon cancer what about all these things and you can you can you can go through the studies you can go through the literature and you can go through the evidence but it really really helps when you see real life examples you say well the Inuit and the Messiah yeah but they maybe they're different genetically but we have people here of European descent that are you know doing this and and not only survive living but thriving and so it's great to see your example and appreciate you uh taking the time to to share that with us of course yeah you know and like you said you know I haven't been to a doctor and I'm the only person I know my height that doesn't have back trouble or any other aches and pains yeah very good point and I've I've had a bad back since I was 15 years old and then for some reason there was this magical period in my early to mid 20s I had no back pain at all and then I was down in California playing uh and the Super League down there with uh with onback in San Diego and all of a sudden I'm like my back kind of I was still mostly eating meat but I was just sort of incorporating a little bit of other stuff in there so I was like oh well my back's hurt again I was like my back hasn't hurt in years like what the hell is that my back always hurts and now my back doesn't hurt anymore you know right like you know you know I know I know so many people in fact everyone I know has at least had some back trouble and they always say to me you know as tall as you are your back doesn't bother you I said no I've never had a back problem I don't have any joint pains I don't you know I've gone through my whole life somehow with avoiding all these chronic issues they talk talk about IBS and they talk about bloating I don't even know what bloating was until recently oh when you feel like you're inflated oh okay you know they talk about they get bloating and they get and then psoriasis and all these other skin problems and they have to take lotions you know you go to the average house you look in the bathroom open the medicine cabinet it's got all kinds of pain relievers and creams and and all this other stuff you go in my bathroom you open it up it's empty the only thing that's in there is just some homemade soap and that's it and I'm so cheap I make my own soap from lard or Tallow and lime or duck yeah you know I do that too but no and that's the other thing like you said you know I haven't been to a doctor I may be ready to die tomorrow you know I could just have a heart attack and boom I'm gone but I feel fine and I it's like I told my friends I said look if I was really sick I I would think if I was going to have a heart attack I wouldn't be able to run across the yard and grab a duck or climb stairs or all load and unload things climb trees and all that I'd be tired like some of the other people I know they go up the stairs they get tired I I know people that are in their 40s that are riding in the little card in Walmart yeah and that that's pretty bad especially in Florida especially in Florida like when I go to the store let's say I'm going to Win Dixie I'm in and out of there in five minutes because what I'll do I'll walk to the back of the store see what they have in the meat section if there's nothing there that I want I leave if there is something I want I'll gather it up go to the register and I'm gone you know and I moved on the way out well yeah I mean that's you know there's chickens running around the parking lot at the Winn-Dixie but you can't catch them they're hard to catch those things they can outrun anybody nice you know I've tried to grab them but you'll never get them even with a net you can't get them yeah it was um there was a post that Dr Baker did uh just the last couple days there's a picture of this guy forget his name the zoom world is like you know nice fine release hitting this fancy chair and so this is so and so he was the fattest man in the world in 18. I saw that yeah people would pay money to come come see this guy just to look at him like oh my God what is that is it spectacle as we actually made you know made his living by just being fat to look at and you look at this and and the caption was like it's a fattest man in 1980 1890 and this this guy wouldn't even be the third fattest person at Walmart today that's it I mean that that would be like going to the Heart Attack Grill you see that if you're over 350 pounds you eat for free they had some people that was like five or six hundred pounds and I know someone that's over 600 pounds I have no idea how he can walk out of his house you know he when he tries to get in out of his truck the thing like goes sideways I mean it's just it's unbelievable I think to myself how could anyone get that fat I could never understand even when I was a kid I used to see fat people how do they get so fat you know doesn't it bother them don't they feel like pain or they don't feel good or whatever but I guess they just keep feeding their face and get fatter and fatter until they either croak or they end up in a nursing home well that's the thing you know we get we get very um disordered eating because we've been told to eat the wrong thing for so long and a lot of these people you know it's not that it's not that they've you know that they're they're out obviously not out to do that to themselves but you know some people say Well they're just not listening to the guidelines they're not listening to the guidelines a lot of these people are a lot of these people are listening to the guidelines and they're trying to you know eat less move more and do all that sort of stuff and it's not working and that's because the guidelines are bad and the recommendations are bad and so a lot of times you know people say oh people just don't listen to doctors know the problem is that they did and the advice was bad and so you thankfully didn't listen to that advice and so for you it's it's very easy like I've never had that problem I eat as much as I want like how is that even possible you know and that's the thing is that it is that when you're eating a carnivore diet it really is difficult to do that you know and so um you know but when you're eating carbohydrates that just changes your metabolism puts you into fat storage metabolism as opposed to a fat burning metabolism and then you slow down your metabolism on top of that and it becomes addictive because your your you you disrupt your your hunger signals and so you think you're starving all the time and so you have to eat you're eating until you're satiated right where you are they're eating until they're safe they're probably not even finishing satiation they're getting no they're like I'm just hungry all the time and that and that's because of that and it's just it's really sad that's what I've noticed when you eat with someone that's obese like that they don't eat as much as I do I eat sometimes three times as much I've had you know I don't even believe in calories I think that's a bunch of nonsense this is like Barcade was talking about the calories are not an accurate measurement of food I thought yeah because you're not burning it and if I calculate calories sometimes I was eating six thousand calories a day for weeks at a time and I never gained a single pound yeah no it's it's I said well you can't outrun your fork eat less and move more doesn't make sense no and so yeah no I agree with you and you know the thing is too is that like these they just can't I mean I mean how ridiculously simplistic is that that you know that every single bio or uh you know bioorganic molecule and and all the different fats all the different kinds of fat saturated fats unsaturated fats polyunsaturated fats you know immediate short chain medium chain long chain very long chain uh all the different proteins amino acids and carbohydrates that all of these things all it boils down to is four calories per gram or nine calories per gram that's it that's the only thing that that's the only chemical process going on in your body is just that uh numerical uh depiction of their caloric value Dom that is dumb you know like and the problem is is that a lot of these these uh dumb comments are coming from people who have actually taken biochemistry or organic chemistry and should damn well know better you know like these chemical compounds have very specific and unique chemical reactions in your body it does not just come down to how many calories that come out of it if you burn it in a flask that's that's ridiculous and so um so of course that's not the case and it's much more complicated than that and yes you know you have a certain amount of energy that your body uses and you have an excess of that you might store it in your fat that is true however it's way more complex than that it is not is not that simple well it's like you said now I didn't understand any of that but what I did like when I was in high school what happened was what we had I think they made a calorimeter out of a cup and I forget what the technique was but when I realized what it was I said well is this the way they calculate calories is yeah I thought a bomb calorimeter was something that you know like I used to like to make explosives myself so I thought oh you blow it up like no no it's just it's an enclosed system so I thought to myself wait a minute if it's an enclosed system a human is not an enclosed system we give off heat we expend energy you know some of the food doesn't get digested it goes out the other end and then I start thinking about wait a minute fat if you burn it is going to have more heat than if you burn a piece of bread so by masts it seems like it doesn't make sense because you know I can I can run my truck on lard I can run it on Tallow but I can't run it on bread there's not enough energy density you know by the time you pack it down it's mostly carbon so to me it just seemed like none of it made any sense and then of course I didn't know until Reese recently it's only been the last couple of years that I've taken time watch people like you and look online and see what's going on it's like well that that's nothing like what we were told and it makes sense like you said because you see people that don't eat much but they graze all day and they get fat because they keep stimulating this fat storage hormone and they just keep putting on weight and putting on weight and they keep telling them oh cut the fat you know exercise more well how are you going to exercise when you're big and fat you can barely move you're not going to go run a marathon when you can barely walk to the front door you know you have to start in the kitchen and then you can think about the gym well you know even even when I'm you know when I was playing you know Sports you know rugby when I had when I had the time um you know there would be time where I would just feel miserable and um you know and I I force myself to get out because you know training was starting and we had to get going but I just feel like garbage and I wasn't like you know very overweight or um you know but I was out of shape and I wasn't feeling great and uh even though I would do stuff during the off season and quite often I would play Summer sevens and things like that so I'd always be in good shape but even just like taking a couple weeks off working out that's his big dip in how I was feeling when I was not doing carnivore and then you know when I sort of got back onto this when I was coming back from Bangladesh and I was like I was trying to get back in shape and I was cutting calories and I was just you know limited amounts of meat no fat and a lot of greens I was just trying to get in shape and lose weight I was like oh just not feeling good not feeling good I'm like not really ready to go I didn't feel ready to go back to rugby practice I'm like oh it's just not I'm gonna do some of my own work first before I go and embarrass myself at practice and just died and two weeks after I started carnivore I was like I just felt like a different person I'm like yeah I'm gonna go play some rugby like this I feel great let's do this and so even though I hadn't worked out really I hadn't run certainly hadn't sprinted or played a full game in at least a year really hadn't hadn't been like game like fit in in a couple years um I was out there just at a dead Sprint you know looking out of shape and I was out of shape but even out of shape with the right fuel my body was working at home I could keep up with everyone else who'd been training sort of that whole season that I was gone uh or half season and and I felt great and you know we did a fitness test a couple weeks into it I'm still out of shape I'm still not at the top of where I should be I came in in the top five out of 90 people and these people had all been been working out regularly on a professional rugby team for months several months when I was gone and so you know it makes a massive massive difference yeah and see I don't I don't play any sports I don't do exercise I hate exercise but what I did do I do a lot of physical work and especially when I was younger we used to do a lot of warehouse cleanouts and building cleanouts and I had several friends that were into bodybuilding they all look fantastic they got the physique you know they look great I wish I could look like that but when it came to actually working a lot of them it was sort of like they were good at first and then it just sort of the energy went down oh I gotta have something to eat I don't feel good and meanwhile I'm going back and forth loading the truck moving this moving that no problem so how do you do it you know how can someone as skinny as you get all this work done I don't know maybe it was a diet I didn't think about it at the time yeah well maybe maybe I don't know maybe I'm just not not a little I don't know maybe maybe think about that you know Maybe but uh all right Rick well uh it's been great talking to you um that's a great uh meeting you and um yeah thanks for thanks for taking the time you're not really on social media you only have anything I do is anywhere where people uh can can contact you or follow you if they want to or you like to keep I do have the YouTube channel which is it's I call a charger Mopar because I'm a big time car guy I haven't posted many videos I used to have a lot more some got deleted but I'm going to start making some more videos I may start another Channel I I've been kind of shocked because the first interview I had was with Joey and I just can't believe how many people have watched that video it's unbelievable yeah I know thousands and thousands yeah yeah that's exciting well it's cool man well yeah we'll put um we'll put up your link for your for your YouTube channel and uh yeah and get get started uh putting up some videos I'm sure I'm sure uh people will check it out yeah like I said I'm working on it I'd like I didn't even think it was a thing but I guess it is and you might be right I may be one of the people out there that's been doing this longer than anybody else you're doing well I think as far as the Europeans uh European descent people in America and you're you're definitely going to be up there I don't I don't know of anyone else who's been doing it longer than you have there's like the bear um ozilowski or osley or I forget his full name but he was like the he was like the sound engineer for the Grateful Dead for like decades and he sort of he sort of started basically around this time you did you know sort of in you know teenage years and he was doing for a solid 50 years and he died in a car accident but he was in Greyhound at that point he's done a lot of um uh he's written a lot of Articles and a lot of things in the different Carnival or Facebook groups just came out of nowhere and just like when people started discovering this and discovering people with getting really healthy with this he was just like yeah I've actually been doing this for 50 years and uh these are my thoughts and he just said it's very very very replete with extremely well thought out arguments and then thoughts would to do with the health and carnivore diet yeah so it's good people can so they're still archived around the internet people can can look that up that's good to know because I like I said until the last couple years I didn't even think it was a thing I thought it was just me being stubborn like I always am but no I guess there's other people doing it there's you and you know you mentioned some examples like you said Sean Baker I think he's in Miami now um I think he was here well I think I think he has I think he splits time down in in Florida anyway he yeah he lives up in Washington state just from north of Seattle and right but I think he has like I think he has like a he's looking at um relocating to Florida potentially but he spent he does spend time down there I know that yeah I haven't seen him but you know there's not too many people that are six foot five like him or six foot six like me there's a lot of short people here yeah yeah yeah Sean's a big guy yeah well he's big yeah he's a lot bigger than me because I only weigh 190 pounds he weighs like 250 or something he's huge at 250 260 I think like he just posted something where he just like ate like 10 pounds of meat in a day like she's like okay there you go hey if I could afford it I could eat easily five or six pounds of meat no problem we just gotta get faster Man start catching those iguanas you know well that's true but I'm thinking about steak you know once I move out of here and I'm in the country somewhere I might as well just buy the whole cow and process it myself rather than having to go to a butcher or go through a processing plant you know just have like a little pasture set up get a cow or two and feed them for a while then when the time comes you know then get your freezer full yeah you feed them they feed you I think that's exactly what I'm gonna do at some point as well I can't I can't uh I honestly can't wait until I sort of get to that point where I'm just like sort of like just living on the land self-sufficient and just don't have to worry about all that that's the other thing I wanted to do for years I started to get into it but the problem is here in Florida it seems like development is the big thing every piece of land here is being filled with houses and shopping centers and all kinds of nonsense but um I would have done it years ago but I had to take care of my parents for about almost 10 years but now I'm going to try to move forward try to find a place to go to because you know for those of us that eat meat I think the best place to live is in the country living near a city is not an advantage for us no definitely not that's cool all right man well good luck and um great and uh we'll see you uh see you later all right bye-bye very much for taking the time out to listen to what I had to say if you like it then please like And subscribe to my YouTube channel and pop